J & K news and discussion

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 21 Jan 2011 02:52

RamaY wrote:If I were OA, I would not only welcome BJP's Ekta Yatra but also actively participate in it.

Are you kidding me? TSP will gun him down in a heartbeat should he dare deviate from the script. TSP controls the underground terror apparatus in the valley. An uneasy truce prevails between IA and TSP.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 21 Jan 2011 02:55

One thing for sure. If BJP is not allowed, or BJP itself backs off, TSP has won lock, stock, and barrel. MMS might as well go throught the motions because even the fig leaf of India's soverignty over the valley will have bitten the dust.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 02:58

Munna, I too thought the key was the words used to define the area. For OA not allowing into Kashmir let alone Lal Chowk will be the win. So most likely they will close Jawahar tunnel for inclement weaother and give themselves high fives.

And CRS is right OA will be == TSP if flag not allowed..

munna · Post by **munna** » 21 Jan 2011 03:08

ramana wrote:Munna, I too thought the key was the words used to define the area. For OA not allowing into Kashmir let alone Lal Chowk will be the win. So most likely they will close Jawahar tunnel for inclement weaother and give themselves high fives.

Ramanaji I am not a doctor but I know for sure that to uncover a puss filled subcutaneous infection one has to rip the veneer off an otherwise healthy looking skin. The nation was being led down a garden path for the past 6 years and the extent of rot is now in the public domain. The idea was to spring a suprise and present a fait accompli. At least now there is no suprise and they will have stake their partisan political standing over the surrender of valley if not entire state. Plausible deniability was used against India by tsp but here it seems that someone amongst our own ilk got that idea vis a vis K parleys.

And CRS is right OA will be == TSP if flag not allowed..

He is right but imagine if there had been no effort to bring him out of closet? The splittists want to gulp down entire state under their joint-whatever and were being made to look like saints and gandhi in phirans! The clock has been turned back and in a budget session full of various pulls and pressures this is all the running seditionists could muster.

munna · Post by **munna** » 21 Jan 2011 03:19

Pandits to join hands in hoisting Tricolour in J&K on Republic Day

:twisted: wrote:Kashmiri pandit groups held a meeting under the banner of Joint Forum of Kashmiri Pandits in Jammu, unanimously rejecting an appeal from the interlocutors to reconsider their plan.
<snip>
The statements issued by the interlocutors cause pain and anguish among the victims of secessionism and terrorism. We fully support the programme of hoisting the national flag at Lal Chowk in Srinagar on January 26. Those who oppose the hoisting in Kashmir should be booked under law of the land,” All State Kashmiri Pandit Conference general secretary HL Chatta said.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 03:27

There is also a train full of BJP supporters starting from B'Lore starting Jan 21.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Jan 2011 03:29

They should also send flags from all over India to Kashmir. heaps of flags should show up

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 21 Jan 2011 03:36

India, Pak agreed on self-governance for Kashmir: Kasuri
what ij thij mujahid kasuri talking about

tauba tauba what agenda will be left for pakistan if kashmir is solved

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 21 Jan 2011 03:45

CRamS wrote:
ramana wrote:Sri, from what Kasuri is saying the talks were hardly back channel Track Pee talks if the people involved were in power and holding office at that time! They were official and formal talks. Did Pranab Mukherjee tell the Parliament what was the agreement.

Is this surrender by stealth?

Is this why Omar Abdullah wants to prevent BJP from hoisting the national flag?

Why did the UPA not reveal the content to the Parliament?

Was MMS in the loop or this another Radia gate?
But CRamS told you what MMS was up to .

This is why the flag hositing is such a sore point with MMS. Throws a spanner in his sell out plan.

The key I believe, and you heard it from me first, is the joint ownership of the valley couched in some diplomatic gobly gook to let MMS pull off a con job in the parliament. As a "South Asian", joint ownership comes naturally to him; its after all a "South Asian" formula, and the last thing on his mind is an Indian formula.

I first came across this articulated by Harvarad "South Asia" prof Sugata Gose at an Asia Societ gathering in NY city. In shudh, Oxford English, this Uncle Tom was laying out this plan to the nodding of his masters sitting next to him: Nick Platt, a couple of former US ambassadors, and some state dept farts. And believe me he said that joint love making will be accepted by all in "South Asia" except "Hindu nationalists". With BJP embarking on this flag hoisting exposing MMS's sell out, his prescience, however sinister, is right on the money.

A few nuggets about our "esteemed" professor Sugata Bose:

From Wikipedia:
"Sugata Bose is the Gardiner Professor of Oceanic History and Affairs at Harvard University. He is the author of several books on the economic, social and political history of modern South Asia, and has pioneered work in historical studies emphasizing the centrality of the Indian Ocean. Previously he taught at Tufts University. He earned his Ph.D. at the University of Cambridge under Eric Stokes.

Sugata Bose is the grandnephew of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose and grandson of Nationalist leader Sarat Chandra Bose. He is the partner[vague] of Ayesha Jalal, a prominent Pakistani historian"

From the Harvard Uty History Dept website:
"Sugata Bose
Position: Gardiner Professor of Oceanic History and Affairs
Field: South Asia
Specialty: Modern South Asian History; Indian Ocean History
Selected Publications
*A Hundred Horizons: the Indian Ocean in the Age of Global Empire Harvard University Press (2006)
*Modern South Asia: History, Culture, Political Economy with Ayesha Jalal (2004) ...."

Figures, don't it!

Now, I see some "recent members" on the forum quoting the historian mohatarma Ayesha Jalal on this very thread.

Verily, this South Asianitis is becoming a great circle j**k in massaland.

Further searches on Google chacha reveals that the "eminent" professor is moving in exalted circles, both in desh and videsh.

"Moderator: Sugata Bose, Gardiner Professor of History and Director of the .... The Defence Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee with Prof Sugata Bose and Prof ..."

Link for the above : wn.com/Sugata_Bose

Best Regards
Fred

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 21 Jan 2011 04:13

munna ji,

Will they allow the Jammu rally on 25th? if they allow that also it is a big loss for OA. We obviously do not know the size and strength of the crowd that they will take to Lal Chowk. It will be interesting to see if these folks go from other routes.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 21 Jan 2011 04:18

sameer_shelavale wrote:India, Pak agreed on self-governance for Kashmir: Kasuri
what ij thij mujahid kasuri talking about
tauba tauba what agenda will be left for pakistan if kashmir is solved

You know what if you pose this question to Manish Tiwari, he will say this all started during NDA regime. The game of the town now is balme eveything that happened from 1947 - 2011 or the six year rule of ABV.

For the record - NDA did propose Neelum plan as a response to Chenab plan proposed by TSP.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 21 Jan 2011 04:59

CRamS wrote:I thought that MMS will allow some symbolic BJP flag hoisting after getting permission from TSP and US. But now it seems he is adamant. Wonder what BJP reaction will be. If they back off, they will become even more of a laughing stock. But they are in a no wn situation. IF they go ahead, they will be portrayed as 'Hindu extremists" destroying piss. If they back off, they will be mocked as all hupe and bluster.

I disagree.

The BJP will very much win, and the Hindu polity will win, and the nation will win... as long as the BJP has the intestinal fortitude to go through with this and doesn't succumb to bribery or intimidation.

Here's the situation. The Maino-Manmohan Cabal has been playing two distinct, but inter-related games with the Indian people. On the one hand, they have been engaging the Pakis (via US-facilitated back-channel diplomacy) and the separatists in the Valley (via political "interlocutors" and other such drivel.) They have clearly been trying to arrive at some kind of Kashmir "agreement" which would entirely subvert the intent if not the letter of the Indian constitution. But they've been doing it quietly, in the belief that as long as a consensus of apathy can be worked into the public debate (by lifafa journalism), they can spring the results on the nation and not have to suffer for them.

On the other hand, the Maino-Manmohan Cabal has begun to systematically inculcate a public narrative that equates Hindu assertivism with religious terrorism of the Jihadi variety. With their campaign to publicize the notion of "Hindu terrorism", the Cabal has attempted to portray assertive Hindus as but another fringe group threatening law-and-order... alongside Maoists, SIMI, and NSCN.... whose activities must not be allowed to get in the way of eight point whatever percent growth, or nuclear deals, or peace with India's neighbours. The key word here is "fringe". The idea is to denigrate all Hindu assertiveness as a movement on the margins of society, on the far side of the law, so that only Hindu apathy is considered tolerable in the mainstream. This of course serves various political purposes.

The Yatra being conducted by the BJP completely demolishes all these pretences of the Manmohan-Maino cabal.

1) It forces the Maino-Manmohan Cabal to put on the table, all the cards they have been playing very close to their chest on Kashmir and Pakistan. If indeed the interlocutors in the Valley, or the back-channel diplomats in Islamabad have made promises or assurances that would be inconvenienced by a political climate where the Indian flag is raised in Lal Chowk... why then the obvious way to find out, is to raise the Indian flag in Lal Chowk.

Until now-- we the people of India have heard whispered hints of this and that from Khurshid Kasuri, suffered obviously biased and slanted coverage from the Indian media, and been hammered with Aman ki Asha type campaigns aimed at creating a general indifference to Kashmir secession among the Indian junta. But Habeas Corpus? We can't accuse the GOI of anything no matter how intense the reek becomes. But by the time the Maino-Manmohan Cabal actually pulls the plug on J&K, it will be too late to do anything about it.

Raising the flag at Lal Chowk unearths the corpse, and forces the Cabal to display its intentions before the watching eyes of India. If GOI responds to the Yatra with violent force, they (not the BJP) will be seen as the ones taking an extreme step. The images will be everywhere... Indian citizens being fired upon or lathicharged as they try to raise the Indian flag in Indian territory. Outrage will be widespread and instantaneous. The pictures (and video) of that one day will be worth an entire career's worth of words spouted by Manish Tiwari or Jayanthi Natarajan.

And then, the Cabal will some explaining to do... out loud and at length. If it has to resort to Jallianwalabagh type measures against Indian citizens to protect its political goals in J&K... what exactly are those goals it is trying to protect? The answer had better be a good one.

2) The Yatra is a democratic statement that has been part and parcel of Indian politics for centuries, because above all else, it demonstrates the power of the common man. Since Tilak began the tradition of Ganapati immersions in Maharashtra, through the Dandi March, to the Ayodhya Kar Seva movement in the present era... the Yatra has been a symbol, not of political protest by a fringe, but of activism by a disenfranchised mainstream. It is a time-honoured demonstration of the will of rank-and-file aam janata Indian citizenry. This stands up in stark contrast to the Islamist, Christianist and Maoist groups who rely on terrorism and violence against innocent civilians to register their brands of political protest.

In organizing a Yatra, the BJP undertakes a legal, constitutional means of protest on behalf of *all* Indian citizens who believe that the status of J&K within India is non-negotiable. This immediately discredits two of the biggest and most Goebbelsian lies being peddled by the Maino-Manmohan Cabal: that the Hindu right is a "fringe" point of view, and that the Hindu right is "anti-national" (or in fact, the greatest threat to India's security.)

The thousands marching in the Ekta Yatra will resonate with the millions watching on their TV screens... the hundreds of millions reading about it in the newspapers or hearing of it on the radio. The nation will see these people not as Hindu lunatic fringe terrorists, but as honest, hardworking citizens like themselves, who were concerned enough about India's integrity to take time out of their lives and make a statement. This will deal a severe blow to the image that the Maino-Manmohan Cabal has contrived, which as you describe, is one of "Hindu extremists out to destroy piss."

The second lie, of course, is that Hindu assertiveness equals jihadi terrorism equals a threat to India's security interests.

Only a small proportion of Indian citizens were exposed to images of the Jammu martyrs facing up to the the soft-Islamist Valley-dominated J&K government during the Amarnath agitations. Not enough of the electorate got to see Indian citizens standing up for Indian national interest, bearing the Indian flag, being shot down and tear-gassed by security forces at the command of those who have usurped the Indian state.

This is powerful imagery... and this time around, it will be much, much harder for the national news media to ignore. The provocative Delhi "secessionists'" conference by Geelani and Arundhati Roy has not been forgotten by the general public... nor have people forgotten that these "secessionists" got off without so much as a slap on the wrist, while the police reacted with force against nationalist Kashmiri pandit protesters at that event.

Now, in contrast, we have the image of Indians from all over the country marching to the heart of a terrorist-ridden, heavily Islamized Kashmir valley... to reclaim for India what the Maino-Manmohan Cabal can very well be suspected of bartering away. The reaction of the Cabal to this Yatra, held up in contrast to their inaction against the Geelani/Arundhati conference, will take place in full view of the nation... and it will be absolutely damning if it consists of violent suppression. It will become instantly and broadly clear who the real threats to India's security and integrity are.

On both these counts, then, the BJP will successfully wrest back the narrative from the Maino-Manmohan Cabal. Assertive Hindus will reclaim their political presence as political activists within the political mainstream, where the Cabal seeks to dismiss them as a fringe movement. And there will be no doubt in anybody's mind which group took up cudgels on behalf of India's national interests, as well as which group those interests had to be defended from.

It is an act of political theatre certainly, but so is everything the Congress has done to cover up its looting of Rs. 14.6 lakh per citizen of India via the 2G Scam. Except that this particular act of political theatre benefits Hindus, and benefits India. Given the level of influence of mass media and breaking-news stories on the political climate today, it would be remiss of the BJP not to engage in theatre of this kind. It's the most inspired idea they've had in years.

The Yatra must go ahead, to Lal Chowk or as close as it can get, at ALL costs. There can be no backing down now.

munna · Post by **munna** » 21 Jan 2011 05:17

Muppalla wrote:munna ji,

Will they allow the Jammu rally on 25th? if they allow that also it is a big loss for OA. We obviously do not know the size and strength of the crowd that they will take to Lal Chowk. It will be interesting to see if these folks go from other routes.

Any stupidity in Jammu will be Sun Tzu-tiya panthi of the highest order! As that would mean ALL parts of J&K are out of bound for tricolor. Till now the plea is that Lal Chowk is a symbolically important place for valley and hence sensitive but what is the plea against Jammu? If they dare do that, it will be a bonanza as all subliminal deals will stand exposed in one go! Do it eye say (Rajni style)

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 21 Jan 2011 05:23

As far as the general public is concerned, any news in ddm about back channel, track n diplomacy is just more political balderdash that they involve in without anything concrete to show. "Prathama amaichar bakisthan udan pechu varthai nadathinaa" Sun tv headlines is a nice soundbyte on the nightly 8 pm news and nothing more. So the general public hardly hears any nitty-gritty. Its a great way to keep the public thinking one way while the government is free to carry on in the shadows. When they hear anything adverse has happened or is going to happen, that is when the public will cry hoarse. And the congress understands that better than anyone I think. There has been little coverage of the bjp position but headlines scream of how poor little kashmir will be up in flames if someone fplants the national flag there. The general public isn't stupid though.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 21 Jan 2011 05:28

Can anyone update us on the ground situation in India? Are people talking about BJP plan? Is there mass support? Is the buzz in the air? RudraJi, while I agree with you, the #s are what will ultimately lead to victory or defeat. If public doesn't come out & support BJP, MMS/TSP win. In fact, I would envisage another scenario. MMS could very well strike a deal with TSP that let BJP go ahead, TSP doesn't respond, and he will guarantee that Bakara & Rajdeep & Co don't cover this and would rather minimize it. What this achieves then is that later on, he can claim that this a BJP gimmick by a "lunatic fringe", and the sell out goes on. On the hand, if there is massive support, I doubt Bakara, Rajdeep & Co can ignore it.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 21 Jan 2011 05:37

They have no way now to back off. Neither can the Congress backoff. To preserve the image of Valley Islamists, Congress needs to prevent the yatra from reaching the spot. They can deploy the army and set it up on the excuse of preserving law and order. Any conforntation between yatris and the army will be heaven sent for the Congress.

Yatris should not only go in columsn, but there should be small groups, even individuals and pairs who can slip through and trickle from all the off-highway routes [of course only the fit perhaps can], even pass through earlier and return from the "other" directions. The flag must go up, even if the army is deployed.

I think we ask a question that has now become trivial now : Will the Congress handover control of Kashmir Valley to Jihadis acting for Pak or to Pak acting for Jihadis through "autonomy" bootlicking? But thi sis not the important question. The important question is those who strongly say that the Congress will not handover, are they willing to share any consequent blame together with the Congress for such capitulations if they really happen?

Political parties can get away with decisions with which we all have to live with afterwards for generations, but they can do so because those who have voice choose to support such decisions - sometimes by lulling the population into sleep with loud protests in favour of the parties.

I think anyone who concedes to the Kashmir Valley Muslims wanting a separate status or independence or joining up with Pakistan - after carrying out genocide on non-Muslims of the area - is a traitor, if not to the Constitution [which is after all a construct of a small subgroup of India's populations but legally binding on all Indians], but to the vast majority of people of India, who happen to be non-Muslim also. Any political party, any elected member of relevant legislative bodies at the time who officially did not vote against [or if secret ballot then abstained], everyone ina dministration and judiciary who does not protest or puts his signature in favour, should be deemed a traitor and liable to be tried for treason. I think it should be clearly stated that without a nationwide paper ballot referendum to allow such a "transfer" of power, such unilateral gifts will be abrogated unilaterally in the future.

If the Congress and NC does this, anyone who is a member of either fo those parties at the time point it happens, should clearly be held guilty and treated accordingly in the future. Even it takes 30 years to bring those surviving to the dock - so be it.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 21 Jan 2011 05:43

CRamSji, I haven't been in India in the last couple of weeks, but I was there in December. I can tell you one thing. Certainly the power of money enables the Maino-MMS Cabal to keep kennels of barking journalists and a few entire-media houses for their own use... and also gives the Cabal a lot of heft to project their spin on any story as it continues to develop. But, there is little the Cabal can do about "breaking news."

I spoke to some people... a relative and some old friends... who work in the news media today. The battle for TRP is everything. Everyone wants to be the first to break a story. It's fiercely competitive (Arnab Goswami of Times Now is legendary for this.)

When a story breaks, if it breaks big enough, the Cabal cannot stop it breaking. They could not stop CWG, or 2G Scam stories from breaking, or even the re-opening of Bofors by the recent IT investigation report.

What the Cabal CAN do is make their influence felt as the story drags on, as it becomes the subject of "The Big Fight" type shows or Karan Thapar style analysis. At this point the Cabal can pressure broadcast channels, especially the Maino-pasand ones like NDTV, to spin the story favourably to the government. For example, "The Big Fight" episode on Bofors was spun into a narrative of "all political parties are corrupt" to the maximum extent possible; but the essential facts of Maino-Quattrocchi involvement in Bofors could not be silenced.

There is a complex relationship between the Cabal and the News Media in India.

The News Media realizes it has to stay on the good side of the rich and powerful Cabal, but various News Media outlets are always in intense competition with each other for the next big story and maximum viewership... so temptation can get the better of one or the other News Media house to go out and cover a story that is unflattering to the Cabal. When one Media house covers it, of course, the others also have to cover that story to stay abreast of the competition.

The Cabal, for its part, realizes that its best bet to influence the News Media is to feed into their hunger for the next big story... promising them "carrots" of special/exclusive access to government-related news as it develops. However, the Cabal will also pressure News Media outlets to ensure that the GOI line is carried, and not contradicted too sharply... and the Home Ministry is in charge of applying the "sticks."

As a result, there is an uneasy commensalism at work. Nobody gets to do what they would like to, completely... the GOI has an advantage in power, but doesn't press it to the maximum extent because they still prefer to rely on the willing cooperation of many News Media figures from time to time.

I have it on good authority that Arnab Goswami says only a fraction of what he would like to be saying about this government on the air... because he gets at least a dozen phone calls from the Home Ministry for every single story he runs at prime time every day, pressing him on why the GOI's view was not represented as they wanted it.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 21 Jan 2011 05:44

But why is OA so diametrically opposite to his dad. His dad for all he did was overtly pro-indian, why is OA so pro paki or neutral, if anything i would expect him to be atleast as pro-indian as his dad

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 21 Jan 2011 05:46

CRamS wrote:Can anyone update us on the ground situation in India? Are people talking about BJP plan? Is there mass support? Is the buzz in the air? RudraJi, while I agree with you, the #s are what will ultimately lead to victory or defeat. If public doesn't come out & support BJP, MMS/TSP win. In fact, I would envisage another scenario. MMS could very well strike a deal with TSP that let BJP go ahead, TSP doesn't respond, and he will guarantee that Bakara & Rajdeep & Co don't cover this and would rather minimize it. What this achieves then is that later on, he can claim that this a BJP gimmick by a "lunatic fringe", and the sell out goes on. On the hand, if there is massive support, I doubt Bakara, Rajdeep & Co can ignore it.

We don't need Burkha and the other crooks. We need the vernacular press and news channels to cover this episode in detail. The vernacular media reaches out to a far larger audience.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 21 Jan 2011 06:17

The Government and the administration have decided that the BJYM and BJP leaders and activists accompanying the 'Ekta Yatra' led by BJYM president and Hamirpur (Himachal Pradesh) MP Anuragh Thakur, who would enter the State from Lakhanpur on January 24 morning, will not be allowed to cross Kathua town. The BJP and BJYM activists, who will try to reach Jammu to join the party rally at Parade Ground on January 25 morning before proceeding to Lal Chowk, will also be stopped at various towns and dispersed. The rally at Parade Ground will not be allowed to be held as the administration feared that it would be difficult to disperse the huge gathering and easy to disperse small groups from wherever they emerge to join the rally or the yatra.

All three DIGs of Jammu-Kathua, Udhampur-Reasi and Doda-Ramban ranges besides the SSPs of Kathua, Samba, Jammu and Udhampur have been directed to ensure that no vehicle of the 'Ekta Yatra' or any other known BJP or BJYM leader or activists managed to move towards Srinagar on the eve of Republic Day.

.....Jan Sangh president, Shyama Prasad Mukherjee was also stopped at Lakhanpur on May 11, 1953 by Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah when the Sangh leader was marching towards Kashmir in favour of 'Ek Vidhan, Ek Pradhan, Ek Nishan' slogan. He had died under mysterious circumstances in a jail at Srinagar later. Anuragh Thakur had started his 'Ekta Yatra' from Kolkata, the birth place of Mukherjee.

"The BJP high command has decided that the yatra continues and it will continue as per the schedule and there is no change in it. The party has no intentions to create any law and order problem or enter into any confrontation with anyone'', BJP's chief spokesman and member national executive, Dr Jatinder Singh said. Party sources from New Delhi and Jammu told the Excelsior that a strategy was in place to ensure that the tricolor is hoisted by their activists at Lal Chowk on the occasion of Republic Day even if the main yatra convoy is stopped at Kathua by the administration.

Daily Excelsior

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 21 Jan 2011 06:25

So the plan is to stop Jammu rally?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Jan 2011 07:07

abhishek_sharma wrote:
menon s wrote: Mr. Sachin, im not a marxist!

menon s wrote: I would have loved if it was the CPI or CPM with their secular credentials in place, put a flag at Lal Chowk.

Knowingly or unknowingly he spoke the truth. Karl Marx at least spent his time reading books and developing some ideology based on the time and social conditions. His heart was, probably, in the right place; his solutions did not stand the test of time. But the CPI and CPM cannot be compared to Marxism, these people are just goons without ideology. Simple power mongers and thugs, Marx was at least an intellectual.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Jan 2011 07:30

WRT J&K, it seems we are in a similar situation as in Pakistan.

Everyone knows that the Jihadis are wrong, what Qadri did was wrong, but the rule of law is actively subverted by all instruments of law and the public.

In the valley, both the state government, and the center are actively colluding to prevent the BJP from stealing the thunder! We have politics being played over hoisting the tricolor.

India has to show that the rule of the law has to be followed to the letter and spirit. J&K is a part of India, the NC and INC are unnecessarily playing politics, and are playing with fire. The BJP is left with no recourse except to go to the nation and ask the question, "Is hoisting the tricolor in a part of India on R-day allowed or not?"

Again we need the vomit icon.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 21 Jan 2011 07:39

At the end of the day, we won folks, read the early times report?
: It is now official. The state government will not allow BJP's Ekta Yatra reach up to the historic Lal Chowk on January 26, Republic Day. But ,in what appears to be the state government and the BJP heading for a big 'collision and clash' over flag hoisting row, both are readying with antagonistic strategies. Even as state government today formally announced it would 'withstand the act' for maintaining law and order and larger motive of peace in the state, the BJP is moving ahead with preparations in complete defiance of what government contends.

http://www.earlytimes.in/newsdet.aspx?q=66684

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 21 Jan 2011 07:58

menon s wrote:At the end of the day, we won folks, read the early times report?
: It is now official. The state government will not allow BJP's Ekta Yatra reach up to the historic Lal Chowk on January 26, Republic Day. But ,in what appears to be the state government and the BJP heading for a big 'collision and clash' over flag hoisting row, both are readying with antagonistic strategies. Even as state government today formally announced it would 'withstand the act' for maintaining law and order and larger motive of peace in the state, the BJP is moving ahead with preparations in complete defiance of what government contends.

http://www.earlytimes.in/newsdet.aspx?q=66684

menon s jee, who is 'we'? by we you mean socialist marxists like yourself?

Anyways, if you somehow feel vindicative and derive some kind of sadistic pleasure by the above mentioned news, then CONGRATS SIR.

As a tax paying, voting, patriot and concerned citizen, one thing is very clear to me. Current Government in Delhi doesn't represent my interest. If anything BJP has exposed those who carry foreign agenda at heart and claim to act on Indian interest in public.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Jan 2011 08:34

Rudradev: A very minor minor minor nitpick; the concept of yatra or processions did not just start with Tilak. In the Indic meme, the yatrai and other marches have been with us from time immemorial. Be it the Digvijayams, teertha yatrai, utsav moorthis being led through the streets or even the march of the Asvamedha horse; various forms of grass-root meet-the-people kind of activities have been for long time with us.

added: For some reason these sort of yatrai, some could view it as marking of the territory, has always swayed the people. INC if not scheming, must be petrified. Something is going on.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 21 Jan 2011 08:41

Acharya wrote: For the US , they need something to do a cut and run fast.

US will not cut and run ... they want to throw the Pak dog the Kashmir bone, but they have their own agenda for Afghanistan and Central Asia.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 21 Jan 2011 08:42

donot play politics in Kashmir at a point that is very sensitive, when even America has ganged up against us, with Pakistan, on Kashmir. Shall i make it even clearer, would you celebrate ur birthday, the same week, ur mother passed away? Why? is it so difficult for people to understand? the indian nation will not wither away, if the national flag is not hoisted on lal chowk. We want to hold panchayat elections in April 2011, to show what support hurriyat conference is having? even the jamaat will not join them, here. That expose is one last hit on their credibility thats already eroding. The Pakis themselves are loosing trust on the Geelani gang.

munna · Post by **munna** » 21 Jan 2011 08:47

^^

I thought you had won and there is nothing that can touch you! Stop the yatra first and theN come back and talk. By the way this week marks 21 years of Pandits being ethnically cleansed. How difficult it is for you to understand that?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Jan 2011 09:15

menon s wrote:the indian nation will not wither away, if the national flag is not hoisted on lal chowk.

I like nation-less earth; border-less land masses, without any organized religion telling me what to do or not to do; singing khumbhya, unrestricted consensual love making, eating fruits and nuts, drinking water from clear streams, playing, discussing highly intellectual and abstract things in addition to mundane joyous things ityadi. But it is not going to happen; we humans are simply not made that way. Since it is impossible, we are stuck with nations and borders. We either accept to deal with it or just go about annoying others.

Here is something from the Flag Foundation website: http://www.flagfoundationofindia.in/about-us.html

Vision
Our primary vision is to popularize the display of the Tiranga by more and more Indians, with a great sense of pride. When we display the flag we rise above narrow considerations of religion, caste, language, region, etc. and it reminds us of being, first and foremost, an Indian. At the same time, it represents every Indian religion, language, culture and region. It celebrates our rich diversity. It is, thus, the greatest symbol of our 'unity in diversity'.

The Tricolour became a powerful symbol of our struggle for independence and served as a great source of inspiration for countless Indians, who made extreme sacrifices for the cause of Mother India's freedom.

How much more noble can one get by raising above religion, caste, language and region? There is a joyous, glorious and totally harmless way to express our freedom, liberty, values and love; and you advocate not doing that? Are you against unity of people? Are you a fundamentalist? Are you parochial? Are you a casteist?

The Flag Foundation Of India is an initiative to trigger our senses. It is an attempt to strive for the up-lifting of the true sense of nationalism. The Tiranga embodies our modem democratic, secular and liberal values, which should be embraced by all Indians in their endeavor to build a strong and progressive India, which would take its rightful place in the world. To take the message of our Tiranga to every Indian, we intend to make use of all available and appropriate mediums, such as -ART AND CULTURE (Printing and photography exhibitions, Cultural programs and festivals, Performing Arts etc.), SEMINARS, WORKSHOPS and COLLABORATION with other civil society and advocacy groups, professionals, corporate houses, educationists and other like-minded individuals with a special focus on children and the youth of India.

Real liberals and secular people, who understand the humans will not hesitate to be proud of the country they live in or belong to. Why do you oppose it? Is it because you are against secularism? Are you anti-democracy? Do you have progressive and liberal values? Or are you an extremist?

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 21 Jan 2011 09:42

Real liberals and secular people, who understand the humans will not hesitate to be proud of the country they live in or belong to. Why do you oppose it? Is it because you are against secularism? Are you anti-democracy? Do you have progressive and liberal values? Or are you an extremist?

SwamyG , just chill buddy. Im a patriot and a pragmatic. Ur are not addressing my concern that powers bigger than us have ganged up with Pakis over Kashmir this summer. im seeing preachers aka think tanks from usa in delhi, telling monstrous stories. Why the hell would SMK, open up dialogue with Pakis? u do not get the drift, but ur happy in name calling.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 21 Jan 2011 09:43

The whole thread is now drifted away. Lot of gyan

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 21 Jan 2011 09:46

deleted

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Jan 2011 09:59

menon s wrote:im out, when did i ever think i can bring sense to BJP, bigots? thank you brf.

Call us Bigots all you want but I would advise you to look beyond your well and read the History of Kashmir, ethnic cleaning in POK, valley, murder of SHias Kashmiris by Pakjabi Army which is not told to you by the Paki friendly Delhi based Media.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 09:59

You claim that you worry that outside powers are ganging up to take the land away bu you desist any attempt to assert sovereignty by citizens in you saffron colored glasses. You see the Hindu but not the nationalists.

And typical of the secular brigade you paint the whole forum with broad brush stroke.
May be you need to find some other forum more to your ilk.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 21 Jan 2011 10:01

menon s wrote:im out, when did i ever think i can bring sense to BJP, bigots? thank you brf.

Good riddance, I say.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 10:03

Menon S just to avoid temptation here should I ban you?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Jan 2011 10:09

What kind of people will say they won when 100k people have died in the last 60 years and million have sacrificed for the partition

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Jan 2011 10:16

menon s wrote: SwamyG , just chill buddy. Im a patriot and a pragmatic. Ur are not addressing my concern that powers bigger than us have ganged up with Pakis over Kashmir this summer. im seeing preachers aka think tanks from usa in delhi, telling monstrous stories. Why the hell would SMK, open up dialogue with Pakis? u do not get the drift, but ur happy in name calling.

I am totally chillax onlee. Where did I call you names? I pointed how noble it is to wave the tiranga. In fact it is you who called BJP folks as bigots. Ulta chor kotwal ko dante?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 10:41

From GDF

From twitter. Dunno when this happened at lal chowk, though....

http://twitpic.com/3pfm94

- Patriotism also doesn't mean to see this pic at lal chowk

Its Pak flag in Lal Chowk.