J & K news and discussion

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 21 Jan 2011 21:22

India should hand over mani shankar to pakis. They deserve each other...

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Jan 2011 21:24

Chandragupta wrote:Mani Shankar Aiyar on Headlines Today right now with his tongue hanging out licking Kasuri's backside discussing how India should handover J&K.

Have strated switching off the TV when MSA comes on the screen. Zaid Hamid irritates me lesser than this super-arrogant Paki mush-licker..

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 21 Jan 2011 21:29

ramana wrote:I thought you didn't like the forum and were not going to post anymore. I think like Peter you denied the forum thrice! So whats gogni on? Are you in or not? Can't have it bothways.

If you are in you go back to all the posts where you said you quit and edit them. If not then sayanora.

i have edited .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 21:33

Good. Next if you want to discuss politicial doctrine or dogma there are other threads in the GDF like Off-Topic thread for that purpose. So please adhere to Forum self discipline. There are others on forum with more stronger Left views but they never disrupt like you have done. Thanks for editing and I take it you do want to stay?

ramana

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 21 Jan 2011 21:45

Chandragupta wrote:Mani Shankar Aiyar on Headlines Today right now with his tongue hanging out licking Kasuri's backside discussing how India should handover J&K.

What exactly did he say? I mean the recise words. Did he couch the hand over in some gobly gook like joint management or some other crap like that?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 21 Jan 2011 21:47

Didn't see much about BJP march in today's newspapers. Whats going on? Also did some sampling of TSP papers, nothing much there either. My gut still tells me that "back-channel" talks are on between MMS, TSP, and theie valley "boys" to let the "Saffron terrorists" have their few minutes of glory, while Bakara & Co talk about something else. Maybe the gameplan is that MMS later uses the muted response to BJP's call as "proof" that Indians by and large want "joint love making" in the valley. Is this scenario plausible? I don't know yet. Stay tuned.

munna · Post by **munna** » 21 Jan 2011 21:54

^^Stop focusing on Radia Media

Dainik Jagran National Edition Front Page

Dainik Bhaskar Delhi Edition Front Page

The reach of these two newspapers far exceeds the babalog papers.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 21:57

CRamS wrote:Didn't see much about BJP march in today's newspapers. Whats going on? Also did some sampling of TSP papers, nothing much there either. My gut still tells me that "back-channel" talks are on between MMS, TSP, and theie valley "boys" to let the "Saffron terrorists" have their few minutes of glory, while Bakara & Co talk about something else. Maybe the gameplan is that MMS later uses the muted response to BJP's call as "proof" that Indians by and large want "joint love making" in the valley. Is this scenario plausible? I don't know yet. Stay tuned.

CRS, yes. And the pernicouos thing is the UPA is keeping its part of the bargain even when the other side has collapsed and got changed. The no flag hosting on Jan 26 is a way of saying that defacto the Indian state writ doesn't run in Kashmir and is thus an expression of good faith. Tie this with GVK Pillai's statement on 25% troop cuts(later clarified to be only paramilitary) and the six month verification less visas to Kashmiris on both sides). Its all moves per that plan. What is bothersome is Kasuri says Pranab Mukherjee, a sitting cabinet minister was part of the dialog and yet its being called track two? How can that be as its offical as it gets!
This defacto joint soverignity is a way to get around the PVNR 1992 Lok Sabha resolution which says the whole J&K is Indian.

Too bad for UPA that the Pakis couldn't hold their delight till it gets implemented. Most likely it was a intra-Paki fight(Mushy's gang vs Zardari's gang) over who should get the credit for Kashmir Joint Sovereignity?

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 21 Jan 2011 22:32

CRamS wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Mani Shankar Aiyar on Headlines Today right now with his tongue hanging out licking Kasuri's backside discussing how India should handover J&K.
What exactly did he say? I mean the recise words. Did he couch the hand over in some gobly gook like joint management or some other crap like that?

I bore as much as I could before I had to run to the loo to puke. He said the solution that birathars Manmohan-Musharraf worked out should be continued with and that the last time it took 3 years but this time "it would take 3 months, 3 weeks and if I was in charge, it'd take 3 days". Aiyar saab also talked about making the South Asian piss dialogue a properly structured process that is insulated from incidents (he did not name Mumbai) that are inevitable as long as tensions remains. At this point MJ Akbar came in like beef kebab me haddi bringing 26/11 in the discussion & how the country cannot forget that perpetrators of that crime are still roaming on the streets in Pakistan and how can the dialog process go on. Kasuri response to that was something about video conferencing & some other similar pigcrap. Aiyar saab looked visibly upset, perhaps even frothing inside his mouth when Akbar raised 26/11. That's all I could take.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 21 Jan 2011 22:38

RUSI- Royal United Service institute.
This is a Think Tank, who has called a seminar in London, and i think Mirwaiz is heaaded there, as it happens on the 25th of jan. The seminar is called " Asian Powers In Kashmir" and although they say there are Indians , Pakistanis and Kashmiris, there, only Major Gen Ashok Mehta (retd) is there who can be called truly Indian. There is another dirt bag Person of Indian Origin, her name is Angana Chatterjee. But such a poisonous woman is she, that she was thrown out of J&k and denied entry permanently.
You can see the names of all attending this conference, and your blood will only boil.
What these 5th coloumns are going to discuss is pretty apparent.
http://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets/Kashmir_Prog_8.pdf

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 21 Jan 2011 22:39

Joint sovereignty is a core part of the Northern Ireland Good Friday type agreements. Something I have been trying to highlight for a long time. At some deeper level, the decision to carry out something like a NIGF has been taken, without actually going into the details of power balances, the complete dissimilarity between Republic of Ireland and Pak as to religious terrorism, the difference between European Christian militancy of the modern period and Islamic jihad.

It is a tactic by which historians and political theoreticians from the Indian, Paki and European side hope to make a career - even if it all destroys India, they would still be heroes of their Kuhnian mutual self-admiration society.

The question again is, those who are now the part of the process - should be treated as traitors or not? Should a question of national referendum on the whole question be demanded? The march will be stopped, by the army if necessary. A great victory for "secularism" will be declared. I know I have now seen on this forum, arguments that everything goes - even "sleeping with the enemy" in all possible senses - is allowed out of "realpolitik", anything that the Congress does, Jihadis do, islamists do, everything that politicans/judiciary/admin/biz-people do - everything is justified because this is how they are, and after all everyone is naturally justified to maximize their gains [except for saffron].

If any member of the Government sits in/signs in/on any agreement whereby the sovereignty of Pak over any of current Indian territory is recognized /joint or not - should be marked as traitors and should be tried for treason - even if posthumously. All activists from the three wings of the rashtra who take extreme interest in protecting the image of their respective wings but who fail to raise prosecution of the government for initiating such sovereignty diluting steps should also be automatically deemed traitors. And as a party, then all members who remain members of the party which is part of the government when such signing happens should automatically also be deemed traitors.

If Pranav Mukherjee is doing this, then it is not that unexpected - for he has quite a reputation from his origins [he started off from Suri in Birbhum I think]. But if Chidambaram is also part of this without protests, that would be really a surprise.

I do not think much can be done without destroying the current facade of sanctity of Constitution, and the strength of the rashtryia security apparatus that will be used against any backlash even if it is popular. So apart from giving out the warning that retribution for any such submission to Jihad in Kashmir will be retroactive and collective - on each and every component of the machinery that protects such a submission - nothing else can be done now.

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 21 Jan 2011 23:17

ramana wrote:
CRamS wrote: Its all moves per that plan. What is bothersome is Kasuri says Pranab Mukherjee, a sitting cabinet minister was part of the dialog and yet its being called track two? How can that be as its offical as it gets!
This defacto joint soverignity is a way to get around the PVNR 1992 Lok Sabha resolution which says the whole J&K is Indian.

Ramana,
A few pages back I quoted this about the feller Sugata Bose:
"Further searches on Google chacha reveals that the "eminent" professor is moving in exalted circles, both in desh and videsh.

"Moderator: Sugata Bose, Gardiner Professor of History and Director of the .... The Defence Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee with Prof Sugata Bose and Prof ..."

Link for the above : wn.com/Sugata_Bose"

*CRamS mentioned listening to this Bose guy in NewYork flanked by some state department types.

*This Bose guy seems to move real close to the power circle at the top.

*US and Canadian grandees have visited the HurriRats in the recent past.

*Kasuri's recent effusions.

All of the above point to one thing onlee:

*Khan with MMS's connivance has had this as a long time project. The screws were tightening gradually. The nonsense with the interlocutors is just a sham. It is handing over joint control through the back door with Khan's blessing.

I guess the local cadres in J&K got wind of this and the BJP centre finally woke up from their dreamy meanderings.

Guess the situation is pretty bad. Otherwise BJP wouldn't have taken such a step ( knowing full well that there could be some serious loss of life on Jan 26th, God forbid.)

Best
Fred

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 23:20

Yeah. Good connecting events. Thanks, ramana

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 21 Jan 2011 23:30

ramana wrote:Yeah. Good connecting events. Thanks, ramana

As an aside Ramana, do you recall why the government of the day let that Robin Raphael person come to J&K and breathe life into an almost dead HurriRat cabal?

In hindsight it looks like a monumental self-goal, hain ji?

Was the govenrment of the day under any pressure from the state department to let this Raphael person in to meet with the HurriRats?

Come to think of it, I recall the local consul in Hyderabad meeting Shri.Chiranjeevi right before the election results were due.

Is it even allowed under normal rules of diplomatic decorum?

Best
Fred

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 23:45

It might strengthen their standing among the currently demoralised accolytes after multiple scams and other shenangians. And imporve their standing among fellow travellers (pseudo-liberals getting US support to scream at India and thinking they are Liberals!)*

* Almost all liberal anti-Indians get US support and press exposure: There is a whole cabal in US.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Jan 2011 00:25

I just don't like the word "interlocutor" - it makes me wanna run to the nearest dictionary and thesaurus. Can't they have picked a simpler word.

Anyways...here is something about Radha Kumar. Linky

An out right Indian Elite, who, based on her experience and circle is highly likely to be a non-nationalist.

Professor Radha Kumar, Director of the Mandela Centre for Peace and Conflict Resolution at Jamia Millia Islamia University, and trustee of the Delhi Policy Group, is a specialist on ethnic conflicts and peace processes.

Formerly Senior Fellow in Peace and Conflict Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York (1999-2003), Dr. Kumar has also been Executive Director of the Helsinki Citizen’s Assembly in Prague (1992-4) and an Associate Fellow at the Institute for War and Peace Studies at Columbia University (1996-8).

She is currently a member of CSCAP India, and on the India International Center’s program advisory group for security. Dr. Kumar holds a Ph.D from Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi and an MA and BA from Cambridge University, UK. Her books include Making Peace with Partition (Penguin: 2005), Divide and Fall? Bosnia in the Annals of Partition (Verso: 1997), A History of Doing: Movements for Women’s Rights and Feminism in India, 1900-1990 (Kali for Women and Verso: 1993), and (co-edited with Josep Palau) Bosnia-Herzegovina: Between War and Peace (Municipalidad Valencia: 1993).

Her articles have been published in Foreign Affairs, the World Policy Journal, the Brown Journal of World Affairs, Feminist Review, the Indian Economic and Social History Review, the Economic and Political Weekly and Seminar. She is a frequent OpEd contributor to The Indian Express, DNA, and other Indian newspapers. She had edited or authored roughly 30 reports, of which the most recent are Delhi Policy Group publications, Frameworks for a Kashmir Settlement (2007, 2006), Peace-Building: European and Indian Views (2007), Peace Agreements and After (2006), and What Makes a Peace Process Irreversible? (2005).

archan · Post by **archan** » 22 Jan 2011 00:33

yeah this was all that was left to be posted on BRF. A member bringing in "proof" from a paki historian to blame Indians to prove his "secular" credentials. Mr. menon s, I duly appreciate your thankless effort in trying to educate these ultra right winger Hindooo terrorists but you're gonna have to to better than this. Unless you can come up with a something written by a non-paki to back up your claim I will be forced to take action against you and a nice little PM will show up in your browser soon. I will give you some time to present your point though.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2011 00:46

Hindustan Crimes reports

People not for UN Resolutions, Independence in Kashmir: Padgoankar

.....
Kashmir panel head Dilip Padgoankar on Friday ruffled many features in separatist camp, saying “a small section of people harped on the UN resolutions for independence of Kashmir”. “Regarding permanent political settlement in J-K, a small but vocal section of opinion harped on UN resolutions, plebiscite and self-determination resulting in independence for the state as it existed before August 1947. Most people we spoke to did not refer to that option,” said Padgoankar at a press conference in Srinagar at the end of four-day visit of New Delhi-appointed three-member interlocutors of the state.

He said most people reiterated their faith in democracy, fundamental rights, pluralism and tolerance. “People sought empowerment to enable them to realize in full measure their political, economic, social and cultural aspirations,” said Padgoankar, who was accompanied by another interlocutor MM Ansari. Third interlocutor Radha Kumar could not make it to Kashmir this time due to illness.
....

And obviously those small vocal minority are already ranting at him and quoted in the article.

So to molly coddle this small minority Omar Abdullah wants to prevent the national flag hoisting? And INC at center wants to support him? Are they nuts?

Now the whole thing looks even more silly at the most charitable view.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2011 00:50

SwamyG, I don't grudge her schlaoship which seems to be vast. I only wish she had turned it more towards real problems like Darfur, Baloch repression or status of women in TSP.

And wish seh had been part of the interloutor delegation that got to know the real miscreants.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2011 01:11

BJP asks

Come Clean on Track II with Pak

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 22 Jan 2011 01:12

I suppose BJP leaders could wear black armbands or mourning attire at the flag hoisting at Rajpath to make their point. Might be the right thing to do anyway since Jan 26 approximately matches this anniversary.

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 22 Jan 2011 01:16

ramana wrote:SwamyG, I don't grudge her schlaoship which seems to be vast. I only wish she had turned it more towards real problems like Darfur, Baloch repression or status of women in TSP.

And wish seh had been part of the interloutor delegation that got to know the real miscreants.

Don't worry, she seems to be of very 'secular' credentials and carries herself with that distinct attire of 'secular piety'- hijab kinda headgear, no bindi etc. One has to be sensitive towards KM sensibilities, after all!!

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Jan 2011 01:16

Ramana garu: The reason I posted that and my opinion/guess/suspicion of her being a non-nationalistic is to highlight at least on of the 3Is (3 interlocutors) could have come from a common mold of "internationalist" - "humans first, state next" type of thinkers. You would have noticed in my posts to Menon, I talk about utopian goals of this planet without countries and all good humans being happy ityadi. Many of us would like that, but it is just not possible we humans are not built that way.

I am not sure if you read my post in the leadership dhaaga about the role of elites. Is she such one? I do not know. My gut feeling is that is not going to be a Kautilya variety. Even I would subscribe to "Humans first, State Next" - my posts in the economic dhaaga reflect that thought; but there are times when "State first, humans next" wins the round. The trick is to juggle these two based on the situation and give a nod to one or the other. One cannot align always towards one of the sentiments.

I am not accusing her of treason, being a traitor or bad thing; my suspicion is that she would not mind letting J&K go. She might be good and noble person. I do not cast aspersions on her character or integrity. I am just uncomfortable looking at her resume. I might be totally wrong though.

And whatever I have tried to read about Dileep does not give me much encouragement. I do not know anything about Ansari.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 22 Jan 2011 01:42

1.UPA, has never had any plans on Kashmir solution. They consider this a historic problem, that has to be borne out. Kashmir is like an invalid child amongst all of Indias Children, that means other states. One who needs constant vigil and support and has special needs. We did take her to many doctors, but it is congenital. We cannot help it. But it is our blood and our baby and very cute too.

So, my dear Menon Sir, if there is NO plan, no BIG IDEA, then why stop the Yatra? I mean surely if GOI has no plan as yet then this Yatra is NOT spoiling anything. Of course it makes some Kashmiris angry, but then they are always angry anyways...

Your analogy of a child with special needs is very apt Sir. But I think this child has special needs because this child was treated specially by parents. Time has come for a rethink, little parental authority needs to be exerted.

2. There is no overall strategy here. But people feel, that there is going to be pressure from USA and the EU, in the run up to the Afghan pull out. There are many ******** who are walking around New Delhi, saying that, " Kashmir, is the key to Afghanistan" . These are think tanks dressed up as NGO`S.

Menon S Ji, this argument of yours doesn't cut any ice sir. Even if this is true, then I think BJP yatra is a good idea as it forces every player to show their hand..... wouldn't you agree? And if there is indeed pressure from US and EU to keep in Kashmir quite and MMS and Abdullah's are their pawns then it will be for the whole nation to see.

3. As usual, our man Geelani will, start his ops, once winter moves, everyone knows that, since its now become a seasonal exercise.

Wouldn't you think that then this is a very right time since record winters are still on. Kashmiri jehadi types don't work in Winters but us Indians will dare the cold to show solidarity to our flags... There is a message there somewhere. isn't it? Moreover if Mr Gilani works in summers onlee then by your theory we should do all our yatras now only as Mr Gilani is now hibernating...

4. Summer is when schools are closed, and the boys can make good martyrs, or pocket money, either way, destiny helps.

EXACTLY. Now you are getting my drift.

Thats why lets just do the Yatra now and hoist the flag on 26th Jan. right now kids are preparing for board exams.

5. The panchayat elections are planned, in April of 2011. Hurriyat will stay away. there will be lot of political activity. this time even jamaat will not support them, and probably vote fully, for pdp. Now the elections are for politicians ways and means to rake in some moolah thats it and nothing more. But, when elections and all that frenzy is on Geelani cannot ply is trade. And we too can prove to the naysayers the ground support that separatists have.

May be a good point. But quite unrelated to Yatra. If anything Abdullahs can be kashmiri heroes if they stop the Yatra and take the fizz out of Indian agent hype..

6. Now the interlocutors are there, filling their note books from the mindless babble of all and sundry. There is a saying that there is a lot more between the cup and lip. So they are exploring myraid small ways, but effective ones, that can ease the pain of the people in the valley. It is a constructive thing, at least people are speaking to them openly.

I have sympathy for interlocutors. Look busy do nothing is an art I myself master.... I see same traits there...

7. Now if this lal chowk flag march happens, and i know the time for conflict resolution is over. Now its Congress_NCP Ego Vs BJP ego, the interlocutors loose credibility (i know you guys have hit the shoot me button, but please) , there is fight and god alone knows what all will happen, since its Kashmir? People who handle the scene are always jittery.

I have sympathy for interlocutors. You think they have credibility in Kashmir now? and BOSS cangress and BJP are 2 national parties... It's there job to take pot shots at each other. ... Since Congress is in power it's their responsibility to make sure that rights of all citizens are protected including BJP walas..

8. Pakis great friends of ours, are waiting for something like this, they will use the news, to enthuse their people, who are only getting depressed day by day, with the situation in their country.

Dude Paki's don't need anymore enthusiasm... they hate us... Kashmir or no kashmir. Lets not bother about them...

But... are you afraid of them?

9. the think tanks are here, these days, and they will say "Didnt we tell ya?", with knowing smiles.

I will answer to them... Yes you did tell me and i still did it ....

10. If things get out of hand, like say for example, an attack on BJP cadres in Srinagar, where in people loose lives, things can get out of hand. What if BJP cadres in jammu, kill a few muslims in retaliation. then a whole new hungama will start. And the porki devils are hat in hand for any mischief.

You know, I knew you were a rightist at heart (every leftist actually is)( and why do you read about India from dubious paki writers?). I like it that you have started speaking BR language a lil bit.
As for people losing lives... that would be unfortunate... It's states responsibility to ensure protection to all citizens including BJP walas...

11. Compare that to a situation, where, the blokes are undisturbed in winter. The interlocutors do their job peacefully. Then when the sun is out the elections are in and geelani gets no time to pitch his tent, this summer, because there is the election circus running. The think tanks have no opportunity to exploit, and the window of danger of afghan pull back receeds after August of 2011 with no much pressure.

Then we will make sure that there is no yatra in 2014 (thats when the afghan end game will actually happen).

12. About kashmir, the MoH, thinks from one week to week. A week without trouble there and you can see happy faces going back to their wives and children. As i was telling you, Kashmir is still a child with special needs.

Dunno what to say on this one... brings tears to my eyes with the thought of kashmiri separatist going back home in harsh winter, with their kids running in snow to hug their father.... and endless rounds of kahvas and kangris heating under firans ... agar kahin jannat hai to yahin hai yahin hai yahin hai....

But menon s ji may be they will like the peaceful family life so much that they will stop making any troubles anyways...

13. about how i know, all this, i ve spoken to a couple of these NGO THINK TANKS myself.

Hmmmm... So does that mean we have to take you or that NGO think tank seriously without knowing any credentials????

You are trying menon S. but somehow you are not compelling enough....

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Jan 2011 03:20

Sri wrote: somehow you are not compelling enough....

Looks like a PLA drone to me.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Jan 2011 03:33

Army presence in J&K will not be reduced: Antony

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 109454.ece

“The statement was not about Army reduction but about paramilitary [forces'] reduction. We have already reduced 30,000 [of the] Army forces. After that, there is no such proposal before us,” he said.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2011 04:28

What took him so long to state this?

menon s, Why do you guys want to give away the Kashmir Muslims to the TSP jihads? Already Bengal and Punjab were partitioned and the rest given away. Are you guys really closet *indutvas?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Jan 2011 04:28

Bakara lends some voice to the anti-flag hoisting sentiment. Not as bad as I thought. I agree with her sentiments provided, MMS comes out in the open and declares that there is no sell out through this joint love-making deal with TSP. I think thats the gauntlet Arun Jaitly or a BJP big-wig should throw to MMS. Tells us what this back channel crap with terrorist Mush was all about. If there is assurance given that there is no sell out in contemplation, then, and only then, I agree as I did several days ago, that BJP abandon this, and let the peace process take its course. On the other hand, if the opposition to the flag hositing is to due to fear that the sell out will be compromised, then BJP is doing the right thing in the national interest to press ahead and put a spanner in MMS's gameplan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2011 04:31

No they should corner Pranab Mukherjee who was in the mtg per Kasuri.
MMS wasn't there. And everyone knows Pranab reports to Mrs G.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Jan 2011 05:04

People with fingers in untold assets in Gulf are not of the right kind for any track one or 2 diplomacy on behalf of India.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 22 Jan 2011 05:05

Flag issue, my 2 cents

1. A few days ago the leader of opposition of RS stated that the GOI wanted to bring back the sadr e riyast system and that he was against it. I have not aware of GOI's response but I do not think that is a step in right direction.

One can assume that a person in his position might have gotten wind of something.

2. Then there is Kasuri, referencing Kiyani, Mush, etc about drafts of joint management. This is coming from TSP that cannot manage itself.

Secret clauses and verbal agreements with handshakes do not work for TSP (ZAB at Shimla). What works clear signed documents with clear maps and lines to which it can be held to account (1999).

3. X-posting from TSP thread

abhishek_sharma wrote:U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan visits India

In light of this, the intention of the main opposition party to fly the tricolour at lal chowk on 26 Jan should be read as a worthwhile attempt to keep the public informed by gauging and check on GOI's intentions.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Jan 2011 05:06

ramana wrote:
menon s, Why do you guys want to give away the Kashmir Muslims to the TSP jihads? Already Bengal and Punjab were partitioned and the rest given away. Are you guys really closet *indutvas?

You should never ask such questions. They thrive on such issues and they are noticeable only during such issues. They are useful idiots for somebody else. They are patsies.

They want to create a political line and put people on both lines as political sociology experiment.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Jan 2011 05:53

Ajatshatru wrote: 2. I totally stopped watching NDTV after Radia tapes expose....but today saw a programme being anchored by Nidhi as the topic was hoisting of flag in Srinagar. It was obvious that some members of audience sitting there had been tutored to raise some anti-BJP questions....anyway, a member of the audience states 'if anything went wrong, would the BJP take responsibility'? I remember the time when the movie 'Bombay' was being released and a delegation from a certain community went to meet the Maharashtra CM and told him in a rather threatening way that there may be law and order problem if this movie is allowed theatrical release in the state. The CM coolly replied 'you don't have to worry about the law and order issue as that is our problem and we know how to deal with it'. And, in contrast, see OA's response today....

I too watched that show. The interesting thing is

OA will rule J&K as a monarch as long as GOI gives him unlimited funds (with no accountability), an artificial peace that comes at the cost of Indian interests by appeasing the jihadi separatists, and constant international exposure at the cost national interests, and periodic jihadi extremism at the cost of Indian lives etc., He doesn't want to take responsibility of the law-and-order, empowering the commons, economic development of the state, equal representation of state population etc.,

Same with Yuvaraj also. He too wants to lead an India that grows at 10% without his involvement, that requires no direct elections if possible, that doesn't require controlling/fighting external enemies etc.,

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Jan 2011 07:07

Special sop goes as RBI replaces J&K Bank as state's banker

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 337720.cms

Bringing the curtain down on a special dispensation available to Jammu and Kashmir, the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) has entered into an agreement with the state government to undertake its general banking business and act as the sole agent for investment.

Following Friday`s agreement, effective April 1, Jammu & Kashmir Bank will not be permitted to provide overdraft to the state government.

Unlike other states, the bank, which is majority-owned by the state, provided these services to the state government as part of a special arrangement for J&K. The other states, like the Centre, use RBI`s ways and means advances for overdrafts to meet cash flow mismatches.

From April, J&K Bank will act as an agent of RBI to conduct the state government`s general banking business, the central bank said in a statement on Friday. It also said the agreement was signed on the basis of a recommendation from the state government.

"This is an erosion in the autonomy of the state government. By signing this agreement, the state government has compromised on its autonomy," a source dealing with the state`s finances said.

J&K finance minister A R Rather told TOI, "I strongly refute that we have severed ties with J&K Bank. We will still have to take an overdraft from J&K Bank."

Apart from the special status for the state coming to an end, J&K Bank would also need to find sources to deploy close to Rs 2,000 crore, which it was providing to the state in the form of overdraft on several days of the year. For banks, lending to the state government is the safest investment option as the funds are bound to come back unlike in case of private companies or individuals who could default on repayment.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Jan 2011 07:57

Got an article on why flag hoisting is a "bad idea" from a "senior" J&K journalist.

Published in Dainik Hindustan (Hindi).

Saajha pahchaan ka pratik Lal Chowk (Lal Chowk is a symbol of shared identity)

By Mohammad Sayeed Malik

http://epaper.hindustandainik.com/PUBLI ... tml?Mode=1

Rough Translation:

1. Like Ayodhya, Kashmir is an attractive agenda for RSS and its sister organizations.

2. Lal Chowk was an important place for show of strength during Sheikh Abdullah's popular movement during 1941 to 1947.

3. When Hari Singh escaped from J&K in 1947-48, the National Conference controlled the situation from Lal Chowk.

4. Sheikh Abdullah and Nehru embraced at Lal Chowk. It is a symbol of a Muslim-majority state becoming a part of India willingly. Sheikh Abdullah read a farsi verse which meant that "we have become one together." Generally, Lal Chowk represents a relation which is the very antithesis of what is represented by the Sangh parivar.

5. Tricolor is not hoisted at Lal Chowk on 26th Jan/15th Aug. No govt function is held here. Flags are hoisted at Bakshi stadium in Srinagar and Maulana Azad stadium in Jammu.

6. Murli Manohar Joshi's 1992 yatra was hilarious. It started with a roar in Kanyakumari and ended with a whimper at Lal Chowk.

7. Omar Abdullah had failed to stop violence last summer. If Omar makes any wrong decision [by bending before BJP], his supporters would interpret it as his failure to protect the heritage of Sheikh Abdullah, which is represented by Lal Chowk. BJP's ideology and politics is completely opposite of Omar Abdullah, his family and government.

8. The common heritage of Jammu and Kashmir is at risk now. It has always been difficult to find the balance between religious, regional, and cultural differences. These difficulties have destroyed many idols [pratimaon

] before. Shyama Prasad Mukherjee paid the price by giving his life. But his aim of "ek vidhaan, ek nishaan" was not achieved. J&K is the only state of India which has a separate flag and constitution (vidhaan). Turbulence in last three decades have shown the importance of this unique nature [vishistata]. Any interference can have serious consequences.

9. Just as we need to stop the militants' call of "Kashmir chalo" to preserve the common heritage of J&K, similarly we need to protect Lal Chowk from the attack of Sangh parivar.

10. At the time of independence, there was a serious resistance against the attack of tribesman from Pakistan. Similarly, there can be a serious opposition to ideological attack from the other side [i.e., BJP]. The futility of such attempts has been proved before. But BJP's narrow militancy (sankirna ugravaad) prevents it from learning from history.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Jan 2011 08:07

This basically means that when Kashmiris talk about "shared identity" they mean that anything related to Hinduism should be kept away. This is their definition of "common" culture.

No tricolor at Lal Chowk since independence. Really?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Jan 2011 08:29

BJP won’t press ahead if J&K stops ‘Ekta Yatra’

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/BJP-w ... ra-/740774

munna · Post by **munna** » 22 Jan 2011 08:38

^he he
I am confused onlee
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/bjp-workers-pour-into-jammu-yatra-to-continue

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Jan 2011 08:50

HT Editorial asks BJP to drop its plan to hoist the flag.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Jan 2011 08:52

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Dangerous ... 53156.aspx

Ask the former Army Chief General VP Malik who was at the helm when the Kargil war was fought and won in 1999. He is blunt in his belief that the BJP must call off the yatra.