Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

Massive tribesmen march in Pakistan, demanding halt to U.S. drone attacks
PESHAWAR, Pakistan, Jan. 23 (Xinhua) -- A large number of tribesmen Sunday marched in a main city in Pakistan's North Waziristan tribal region and demanded a halt to U.S. drone strikes in the area.

The demonstration in the town of Mir Ali was the second in the region in three days after over 2,000 demonstrated in Miranshah, the agency's headquarters, on Friday.

The Sunday's rally coincided with two strikes by the U.S. drone aircraft in Datta Khel area of North Waziristan, which killed seven people.
President of the Traders Action Committee of Mir Ali Bazar, Abdul Hakim, told the rally that the U.S. drone strikes have made the people physiologically sick as everyone is in a state of fear when the drones started flying over the area.
:shock: thought the gazi warriors who defeated Soviets were afraid of nothing including death
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

Bus slams into oil tanker in Pakistan, 32 killed
NOORIABAD, Pakistan (AP) — A bus slammed into an oil tanker in southern Pakistan before dawn Sunday, setting off a blazing inferno that gutted both vehicles and killed 32 people, police said.

The accident reportedly occurred because the bus driver fell asleep and lost control of his vehicle, said Mohammad Farooq, local police chief in Jamshoro district where the accident took place. Passengers had twice asked the driver to stop the vehicle and rest to avoid an accident, he said.

The 32 dead included women and children, whose charred bodies were carried in white sheets to waiting ambulances, said Farooq. Nine people were also injured in the accident, which took place near the town of Nooriabad, he said.

Only a few young men were able to crawl out of the back of the burning bus and escape, one survivor told a local TV station. The rest were burned alive, he said.

Fatal road accidents are common in Pakistan, where public transport drivers are often poorly trained and work long hours. Roads are badly maintained, and there is widespread disregard for traffic rules.
wasnt there an article from some begali paki lover who wrote an article about how beautiful the roads were in paki lands few moons ago?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

Pakistan could see rise in breast cancer cases
Islamabad, Jan 23 (IANS) Pakistan could face an increase in the number of breast cancer patients in the future because of the unhealthy lifestyle led by most women as well as late diagnosis of the disease, a US health expert has said.
can some one shed light on what we mean by "unhealthy lifestyle"
Pakistan has the highest mortality rate for breast cancer in the world. This was because of the unhealthy lifestyle followed by most women as well as the late diagnosis of the disease, since the majority of women seek treatment when cancer is in its last stages.
The main causes of its spread were obesity, lack of breast-feeding, poor overall lifestyle and environmental radiation.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

Govt to further cut development budget: finance minister
KARACHI: Finance Minister Dr Abdul Hafeez Shaikh on Saturday said the development budget has been reduced from Rs 280 billion to Rs 180 billion and more curtailment in it would be made in the coming days
Talking to businessmen at the Federation of Pakistan Chamber of Commerce Industry (FPCCI), he said the country was facing grave challenges like hike in oil prices, impact of floods on economy and deteriorating law and order situation.
Unnecessary expenditures of the government would also be slashed, he said, adding that the decision had been taken in the larger national interest.
Dr Hafeez said rise in oil prices in international market posed a real threat to the country’s economy. Increase in oil prices was the last option that the government had, he added.
He said the government would stick to its “best national interest” stance in dialogues with the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
“It is in our own interest to also fulfill our international commitments. We are continuing dialogue with IMF and they are our development partners,” he said.
He said “a historic decision was taken under the National Finance Commission Award to increase grant of the provinces to provide basic amenities to the masses, including health, education and clean drinking water. The centre had agreed to provide Rs 300 billion to the provinces in this regard.”
Dr Hafeez constituted a committee to resolve the issues of income tax and sales tax refunds facing members of the Overseas Investors’ Chamber of Commerce and Industry.
AOA this development cut will allow pakis to buy more mijjiles and bums to defeat kafirs and hoist green flag over lal quila
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

Woman electrocuted on Pak village council’s orders
Bahawalpur (Pakistan), Jan.23: A 22-year-old woman was electrocuted here on the orders of the village council) after she was accused of eloping with her cousin and rejecting her proposed arranged marriage.
Other relatives claimed Saima had committed suicide by drinking a poisonous spray as she was not happy over her proposed arranged marriage.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

Anatomy of fear
Two weeks after the assassination of Salmaan Taseer in a market in Islamabad, social activists in Karachi had a hard time finding a proper venue to hold a memorial reference for the slain leader of the ruling Pakistan People’s Party.

Initially, the reference, organised by Citizens for Democracy, was to be held at the Arts Council. But the Arts Council management withdrew the permission just a day before and the conference could also not be shifted to the Karachi Press Club, with its so far illustrious tradition of providing space to dissident voices.

Fortunately, the Pakistan Medical Association, also reputed for its progressive and pro-people allegiances, provided its premises for the conference. And it was held without any incident, though there were some apprehensions about security.

What does this mean? Obviously, we need to mourn for a lot more than the murder by a fanatic of the very person he was assigned to protect. Indeed, it was not just the killer who played a villainous role in this episode. The entire leadership of non-religious and supposedly enlightened political parties, particularly the PPP, the ANP and the MQM, is found guilty of ideological treason.

The media, with the news channels setting the tone, must also engage in a serious reflection on how it dealt with a story that was surely very sensitive but here was one occasion when it could have invested its power in raising popular awareness about the destructive forces of religious extremism and intolerance. When we recall, after some time, the timidity of our media in covering the Salmaan Taseer murder, we may find it hard to believe that it actually happened.

Yes, there was some rethinking as time passed and the initial panic that had gripped our media managers began to subside. There were some commendable attempts to deal with relevant issues. After all, the focus should not have been on blasphemy laws but on the murder itself and on the nature of fanaticism that exists in our society.

Let me confess that the fact that our venerable institutions like the Arts Council and the Karachi Press Club were this week afraid to allow the memorial meeting to be held on their premises, irrespective of the intimidation they may have experienced, has totally derailed my thoughts.

Otherwise, I was hoping to locate a silver lining in the aftermath of an event that should be seen as some kind of catalyst in our struggle against religious fanaticism and obscurantism. I was also watching the impact in the United States of the shooting in Tucson, Arizona, and how it seems to have become a turning point in the civic life of the country. There, the focus has been on the assassin who is seen as mentally disturbed.

Why have we not submitted the killer of Salmaan Taseer to a proper psychiatric examination? We should also be looking at the mental health of those who applauded his action. Besides, what have our political leaders done to promote reflection and rational debate on the lethal nature of public discourse at a time when we desperately need to be judicious and attentive to the dangers we confront? For instance, President Obama made an inspiring and emotional address to the nation on the Tucson killings and pleaded for temperance in these words: “If this tragedy prompts reflection and debate, as it should, let’s make sure it’s worthy of those we have lost”.

I was encouraged to read the statement made by Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, Chairperson of the PPP, in a memorial service for Salmaan Taseer in London in which he said that Mumtaz Qadri and his supporters were the real blasphemers. However, it was also noted that he was the only PPP leader to condemn the killing in strong terms.

As for the PPP leadership in Pakistan, its state of paralysis is evident not just by its response of the assassination of Salmaan Taseer. Karachi may serve as an example of the ability of the party to deal with difficult situations. But the real tragedy is that it is also unable to exploit opportunities that arise – and the killing of Salmaan Taseer could have been a defining moment to rescue the concept of a liberal and democratic polity in Pakistan.

In that sense, we should not worry that the assassination has deepened the ideological divide in the country. We should welcome the opportunity to properly identify this divide and mobilise the forces that parties like the PP can marshal, considering their traditional stance. They should have changed the terms of the debate, highlighting the values of democracy and tolerance and rule of law. Only political parties are able to mount such a movement. With their inaction, they left the brave social activists to face the onslaught of the fire-spouting religious brigade. In fact, some leaders of the PPP seemed to be a part of that brigade.

Why has this happened? When the high tide of fear seemed to have left the society in a state of terror, our rulers made no attempt to contain its disastrous impact. This utter inability of the rulers to at least protect the reputation of its own leader, who is believed to have had the backing of the leadership in his dispute with the religious extremists, is likely to have consequences in the context of the evolution of our society.

Come to think of it, those emotionally charged zealots who applauded Mumtaz Qadri had, in fact, provided a potent argument for the creation of a secular polity in Pakistan. That argument has not materialised because the so-called liberal and non-religious parties are fearful of the popular backlash. That it should be so is remarkable, considering the support these parties have repeatedly demonstrated in general elections.

Whether our ruling parties are able to deal with this crisis in a creative way or not – and they are at this time totally bogged down in largely self-created difficulties – we do have a glaring evidence of what can happen when religion is used as an instrument of politics and the public space is usurped by clerics. Incidentally, when I talk about how fear is able to paralyse our society, even some religious leaders appeared to be afflicted with this emotion. They hesitated to offer candid judgments on some aspects of the tragedy and shamefully resorted to ifs and buts.

Meanwhile, let us recall that famous quotation of Franklin Roosevelt from his first inaugural address in 1932, in the depth of the economic depression. He said that “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself – nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyses needed efforts to convert retreat into advance”.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gerard »

Image

Will they bury him with that piece of the Berlin wall and plaque that Ronald Reagan gave him?
"Colonel Imam. With deepest respect to one who helped deliver the first blow"

Another day in the land of the pure...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

Along with the piece of the Berlin Wall they should also bury them with pieces of the Stinger missiles that they stole from the war chest.
Also these phuckers got stinking rich by embezzeling the money meant for fighting the Jihad against the soviets. The ISI and Zia-Ul-Haq apparently accepted money in cash onlee to err maintain 'plausible deniability'.

Exhibit: The likes of Hamid Gul drive around in a BMW. He was ISI chief during the anti soviet campaign. How he came to acquire the plots of land and the imported car on a General's salary in Pakistan is anyone's guess.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

Brad Goodman wrote:Massive tribesmen march in Pakistan, demanding halt to U.S. drone attacks
PESHAWAR, Pakistan, Jan. 23 (Xinhua) -- A large number of tribesmen Sunday marched in a main city in Pakistan's North Waziristan tribal region and demanded a halt to U.S. drone strikes in the area.
:shock: thought the gazi warriors who defeated Soviets were afraid of nothing including death
Indeed.
Mighty strange for the Ghazis, the holy warriors to be demonstrating peacefully against drone strikes. Almost Gandhian isn't it?

RAA no RAMA agints everywhere.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by shiv »

The two faces of Hamid Gul.
Image

Image
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Gagan wrote:The likes of Hamid Gul drive around in a BMW.
Why drive a kufr car? Ummah has no car manufacturers? All that jinn technology not helping?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

RajeshA-ji,
Something will have to be done for the refugees for which plans have to be made like now.

I feel that the minorities will be better off migrating out of Pakistani Punjab, and POK. I don't think there are any minorities left in Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa except in Peshawar. They might be finding it difficult to survive in Peshawar also. Pakistani Punjab might be the most dangerous place in the world to be a minority right now, and it is only going to get worse.

As has been outlined by a few pakistan observers and authors, the Baloch movement, and apparently the Mohajirs relatively, are Secular in their outlook. Some of the bigger cities in Sindh but not Karachi (Hyderabad, Sukkur, Nawabshah etc) might be relatively better. Karachi looks like it is headed to becoming Beirut ver2.0 - The MQM vs ANP/Pashtoon Talibs vs Deobandi/ISI vs Sindhi rivalry is getting increasingly bloody.

Again, I dunno how comfortable GoI will be deploying Indian forces in Pakistan. GoI seems to not want to get its hands dirty. I suspect should such an event come to pass, the maximum that GoI will be willing to do will be to channel humanitarian aid through the UN onlee. GoI might not want to draw unnecessary attention towards itself should Pakistan implode.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

abhishek_sharma wrote:Why drive a kufr car? Ummah has no car manufacturers? All that jinn technology not helping?
Saar, haven't you heard, the ummah hasn't given the world even a 'windshield wiper'...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Come on! Remember that indigenous helicopter? That was literally made by jinns!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

Shiv saar,
In that second picture of Hamid Gul sitting while Hafiz Saeed gives a speech. I'll bet if the camera had panned out we would have seen Mirza Aslam Beg also sitting next to HG.

BTW HG's real motives were given out in that Musharraf's interview with Saleem Safi. Mushy clearly says that Hamid Gul has a blood feud with the Americans because his promotion to COAS was nipped in the bud by them (and he was asked to go take charge of HIT, Taxila :lol:). Hamid Gul refused, and apparently put in his papers, but some dog had pissed on his luck. The man who was just above him in line for the COAS's position died unexpectedly AFTER HG had resigned. :rotfl:
That man has ever since tried his best to become PM, President of Pakistan. He has schemed and schemed all his life. His latest is his deal with the islamists and the Jihadis. Apparently he is projecting himself as the great Mahdi who is going to head the green revolution and err... liberate Pakistanis from destitution.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by shiv »

Gagan wrote:The man who was just above him in line for the COAS's position died unexpectedly AFTER HG had resigned. :rotfl:
Who was that?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

All this is from Mushy's interview with saleem safi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxuScfwBU_0
OK, so minor edit to my post.

Asif Nawaz Januja was COAS (1991-93), he transferred Hamid Gul to HIT, Taxila. Hamid Gul refused because he was a core commander and he thought that HIT was a move to sideline him from the race to be the next COAS. Asif Nawaz dismissed him from service.
Then Asif Nawaz died of an MI.
Had Hamid Gul gone to Taxila and still remained in service, he might again have schemed his way to the top.

Karma is a she dog.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Asif Nawaz's brother wrote something else in his book, right?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

What did he write?
Bloody Moider?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by abhishek_sharma »

IIRC, he mainly blamed Nawaz Sharif. Nawaz Sharif told Asif Nawaz "You are driving this old car....take the keys of this new Mercedes". Asif Nawaz saw this as a bribe and did not accept it. Probably some other similar events also took place.

Nawaz Sharif invited Asif Nawaz to his house for dinner. Plates for Asif were cleaned with a "special liquid" brought from outside the country. (I guess this happened a few times.)

After some days/months, Asif Nawaz died in a heart attack. Medical tests showed high levels of arsenic in his body.

It is possible that Hamid Gul was part of this conspiracy. I don't remember it. I read Shuja Nawaz's book 1-2 years ago. I have started forgetting some details.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

Hamid Gul's transfer had something to do with the Americans, given his hatered for them.
It is possible that the Americans saw that Hamid Gul's love for the Jihadis in the aftermath of Afghanistan was out of the ordinary. The thing is that he maintained his contacts with the arabs and the other unsavoury characters long after the war ended and when he was core commander. The CIA must have given the necessary feedback that HG is closet Jihadi and hence the move to sideline him.
Senior officer's postings and promotions are micromanaged by the khans it seems.

The thing about Arsenic is that like in Napolean's case, it is a very very slowly acting thing. Years upon years of exposure are needed. If you remember, in West Bengal the levels of Arsenic in drinking water are very high, which people have been drinking for several years with resultant problems. (GoI had come up with a Nalgonda technique to remove that arsenic from the water).

BTW in conspiratorial feudal regimes like Pakistan, the transfer of Power is still the same as it was at the time of the Mughals - there is conspiracy, intrigue, deception, murder (the most important ingredient). Poisoning is a common suspicion amongst Pakistan's leaders, and people don't break bread in a rivals' home.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Rajdeep »

One last thing on this Veena Malik episode , one more contestant from Pak , Ali ,who was also a part of the show has said that pakis were included in the show to humiliate pakistan onlee.

I guess he has got his money and now is afraid of the taseerian end , so he is playing the victim card.
Once again proves that pakis bite the hand that feeds them.

Ref - 50 Min Abdul Rauf Jan 21 show.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

That contestant was Ali Saleem, better known as Begum Nawazish Ali. He is a transvestite.
Image Image

More of a case of a pot calling the kettle black IMHO.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Gagan wrote:Hamid Gul's transfer had something to do with the Americans, given his hatered for them.
There was a plot to kill Benazir when she was PM. When did that happen? If it happened during her second term, then this is not relevant.

OBL was involved. She asked Saudis about it and they said they were not involved. They told her who was involved.

If it happened during 1980s, then Gul was probably implicated (and transferred).
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Gagan wrote: The thing about Arsenic is that like in Napolean's case, it is a very very slowly acting thing. Years upon years of exposure are needed.
Okay. Then this surely discredits this theory because he died pretty quickly.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

BB was PM 1st term from Dec 88 to Dec 90.

Hamid Gul was ISI director from March 87 - May 89.

Time period seems to fit.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

It might not have been Arsenic, it might have been something else.

It might even have been something with arsenic as one of the components.
If the thing was brought in from outside of Pakistan, and intended for a VVIP, it could have been the produce of some national intel agency and thereby be exotic.

There was this little snippet in 'Diary of a social Butterfly' or some section of the TFT maybe 'ittefaq nama'. That Kiyani and Geelani went to meet Zardari. Zardari offered refreshments, but the two were careful not to touch anything edible.

Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown - more so in Pakistan
:D
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Gagan wrote: It is possible that the Americans saw that Hamid Gul's love for the Jihadis in the aftermath of Afghanistan was out of the ordinary. The thing is that he maintained his contacts with the arabs and the other unsavoury characters long after the war ended and when he was core commander. The CIA must have given the necessary feedback that HG is closet Jihadi and hence the move to sideline him.
At that time, did the Americans know that Jihadis would turn against them? I think they started understanding after they were hit directly in Africa. Even then Bill Clinton blamed Indian army for the killing of Sikhs in J&K (this basically shows his pro-Paki attitude). I think they understood the problem fully only after 9/11.

I mean there must have been some junior guys in all departments talking about jihadis. But (as in Paki Nuclear proliferation case) at the highest levels, their calculation was: "Jihadis are not great, but who cares? In fact, they could be useful for keeping India/China/Russia busy."
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by anupmisra »

sanjaykumar wrote:A fine spirited woman.
Fine spirited? Surely you jest. Being fine spirited is a virtue. This soon-to be-Canadian-visa-seeker openly bragged about making a Yindoo read the Koran.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gagan »

My view of how the Americans understand Pakistan and the Af-Pak problem, the events of 9/11 has changed a little bit. I will try and put it in words as best as I can. Hope the gurus can pitch in.

The bottom line is Obama's statement "The cancer is within Pakistan".

I think this will help us understand a little better on why the US behaves as it does in Pakistan.

The west (US/UK) have always known that the Pakistanis were bigoted religious rightwingers all throughout their existence. That extended to their armed forces too. The US it seems understood that Pakistan has another master KSA to which they pay obesience. And they have carefully rooted out people who were sympathetic to KSA's or religious right wing bent of mind. Zia, was a necessary evil because they had started to fear and despise Z A Bhutto more. And they had to get involved with the little game that Zia was playing across the durand line.

The US has rooted out officers who have a openly Jihadi bent of mind all these years, but the pool has gotten more murkier slowly but surely. I don't think that Nawaz Sahrif picked Musharraf out of the blue, superseding half a dozen officers just like that. What Nawaz Sharif saw in Musharraf, the US saw something that suited them too - a guy who drank every evening, and was a relative liberal and a rank opportunist with no real support.

So here is the thing. The west knows that the Pakistanis have been radicalizing all these years, they have these wahabized arabs in their midst, and given the way the middle east arabs are revolting against the US, it is only a matter of time that US forces, US interests get attacked by the pakistanis. The US knows that Pakistan trains terrorists, ever since the 70s. They know that these guys can get radicalized fast and start to wage Jihad against the west.

Now in comes the Pakistani army generals, who the US has put in place to keep things in check. These guys keep hatred of the US / UK under a certain level and they get due baksheesh for that. It is a symbiotic relationship.

So what happens when the US departs from Afghanistan in the 90s and even imposes sanctions against Pakistan?
1. The Pakistan army allows resentment against the US / west that has been brewing as it is. In fact the army actively stokes the flames.
2. The US gets attacked, and the source are the terrorists who were close to the Pakistan Army all the while.

All this is a reaction of the infant baby bawling at the mother who has stopped feeding it. 9/11 was going too far. I think even USS cole, and the embassy bombings were tolerable - barely so, because the US initiated covert action and Bill Clinton had to fire cruise missiles as warning shots at OBL - which again the Pakistani Army helped OBL get out of.

Given the old love affair that the Pakistani army has had with OBL and his people, I am certain that the US knows exactly how and who all planned 9/11. If the blame is being leveled ONLY on the Al-Qaida and OBL and not at the rest of the gang, it is NOT because the US is blind. I find it hard to believe that they are naive. The relationship between OBL and the Pakistanis is well known and an open affair. So then there is something that doesn't square up when ONLY OBL gets to take the rap for 9/11.

Perhaps the US realizes that since the cancer is within pakistan - ALL elements within that country are afflicted with it. To openly blame them will mean that they will turn overtly Jihadi like the Iranians did, and then that country which now has nuclear weapons will be a mortal enemy and willing to do with nukes what it was doing with TNT and planes only.

It would appear that the US is:
1. Indulging in Damage control to not set up an enemy which is armed with nukes, and which is suicidal.
2. Keeping the enemy in a close embrace will allow them to poison it, and who knows there is an outside chance, however unlikely, that they might even cure it of the cancer.

I get the feeling that the US's current embrace of Pakistan is INSPITE of knowing fully well that they did 9/11, but that embrace is so that they might prevent these guys doing something worse in the future.

JMT. Opinions from forum members please.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by RajeshA »

Gagan ji,
That is a very plausible theory! Indians keep lamenting that the Americans do not take take the danger from Pakistanis seriously, and we think, that it is because the Americans do not understand the Pakistanis like we do. I for one, find that explanation seriously lacking in credibility. The Americans get very good intel on Pakistan, especially as they have such an intense relationship with them.

I think, they have taken a lesson from the Indian book, and decided to play shehnai to the Paki snake to keep it from snapping at them. Just look at the goodies that Biden is bringing to Pakistan. They are hoping to keep the snakes in the region onlee, even if it is letting American GIs take the bites. They would rather have Indians, but there are considerations there too.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Prem »

Gagan wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Why drive a kufr car? Ummah has no car manufacturers? All that jinn technology not helping?
Saar, haven't you heard, the ummah hasn't given the world even a 'windshield wiper'...
Are you sure,
Have not you heard about Pakistani? The land of pasing Wind and breeding Vipers.
ArmenT
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by ArmenT »

abhishek_sharma wrote:Nawaz Sharif invited Asif Nawaz to his house for dinner. Plates for Asif were cleaned with a "special liquid" brought from outside the country. (I guess this happened a few times.)

After some days/months, Asif Nawaz died in a heart attack. Medical tests showed high levels of arsenic in his body.

It is possible that Hamid Gul was part of this conspiracy. I don't remember it. I read Shuja Nawaz's book 1-2 years ago. I have started forgetting some details.
Would have been much easier to have bumped the man off with an old fashioned knife and then claim heart attack and pay off a doctor to claim the same. After all, this is the country where reported causes of death have been "exploding mango crate", "sunroof lever", "light bulb causing air vacuum burst" etc. What is a little "heart-attack" compared to all the above. I think this "special liquid" thing might be a paki conspiracy theorist's embellishment on the whole affair to involve a "foreign hand" (i.e. the usual suspects, yankee, yehudi, yindoo), in order to discredit badmash even more.
Gerard
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Gerard »

How he came to acquire the plots of land and the imported car on a General's salary in Pakistan is anyone's guess.
According to Ayesha Siddiqa, Paki Generals are given land as part of their service. Any General is guaranteed to retire a landed millionaire.
But the biggest and the most visible perk is the rural and urban land given out to serving and retired officers. They also get subsidies and other benefits to develop the land. The estimated worth of the legally acquired assets of Pakistan's generals, says Ms. Siddiqa, is in the range of $ 2.59 million-$ 6.9 million, based primarily on the value of rural and urban properties of these new land barons. The Pakistan military, as a single group, owns more land than any other institution or group, amounting to about 12 per cent of total state land. And unlike other state institutions, the military can convert this land for private usage.
http://www.fnsr.org/analysis.htm#3
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by krisna »

The Death of Pakistan? Jassu bhai uvacha
The roots of Pakistan’s instability run deep. Following World Wars I and II, the European powers and the United States sat around distant tables and fabricated frontiers, giving birth to Iraq, Israel, Kuwait, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia – and thus to most of the of the Middle East’s current ills. The region’s new map was based on the assumption that the fundamentals of “Muslim Asia” could be transformed by introducing the Western nation-state system. Instead, what formed was a region of entities that have largely failed to cohere as nations.
In 1947, the Indian sub-continent, too, was vivisected in much the same way, with a religion-based entity carved out of it: Pakistan.
the question of Islam and statehood. In his book Islam and the Destiny of Man, Gai Eaton put the matter with elegant precision: “Islamic society is theocentric…not theocratic.” This is an important distinction, for it calls into question the “validity of (the) concept of (an) Islamic state as distinct from a Muslim state.” The first, Eaton writes, is an “ideological proposition” that has “never materialized in Muslim history because no Muslim state has even been theocratic.”
For Muslims, all sovereignty vests in God; indeed, nothing whatever exists or can exist outside of Him. As Eaton puts it, the Koran’s insistence that “there is no god but God” can also be interpreted to mean that “there is no legislator but the Legislator.” That is why in Islamic jurisprudence, laws must be derived from the Koran and the Sunnah of the Prophet, not handed down from British or classical philosophy.
So the central issue in Islam has not been whether the state can be separated from religion, but whether society can be so separated. It cannot, which is why no Muslim state can be fully secular.
This aggressive, fundamentalist path is inexorably leading Pakistan back centuries in time. Of course, Pakistan alone is responsible for the path it chooses, but it would not have so readily adopted its current course but for the tacit (and explicit) support that the US has given it, beginning in the 1980’s to counter the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Once again, we see how misplaced Western national priorities can bring ruin on a non-Western nation.
In any contest of ideas, the extreme will usually triumph over the moderate. In Pakistan, the extremist now wears Islamic garb, and stands for the Creator, for faith, and for a theocratic order. What, by contrast, might a Pakistani liberal stand for? Indeed, who in Pakistan is calling for a liberal, democratic country?

In the dark, congested alleys of Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar, or Quetta, the yearning is not for democratic liberalism, but for the believers to unite behind the one true faith. Here, in this desire, is where Pakistan’s ultimate reckoning is to be found, not in the corridors of Washington, and certainly not on the broad avenues of Islamabad.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by Prem »

Jassu Bhai knows the Trooth , That The Dookh is caused by the Book in the hands of Crooks in our part of the Nook. Now he has taken a wise Look , how can we satisfy their Hoor Bhookh and bring the new era of Sookh.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by krisna »

Pakistani public now unconcerned about terrorism: Study
Even though nearly 4,700 people lost their lives to terrorist activities in Pakistan in the first 10 months of 2010, the general public are now showing a remakable lack of concern at the 'curse', a study has revealed.
:mrgreen:
The study 'Trail of Tragedy: A Chronology of Violence in Pakistan 2010', carried out by a rights-based civil society organisation called Strengthening Participatory Organisation (SPO), chronologically lists and elaborates on incidents of terrorism that took place in 2010, the Express Tribune reported Saturday.
The terror incidents include suicide attacks, bomb blasts, ambushes, target killings, casualties caused during military operations, attacks on security forces and drone attacks in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.
This shows the right direction TSPians are taking to meet the araps of 6th century ad. :wink:
terrorism is a way of life
AOA
krisna
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by krisna »

VIEW: Game over
Perhaps a fundamental condition for any uprising to occur is a very deep claim to equality. The have-nots must know that they are equal in dignity and in rights with the haves, and formulate the demand for the concrete fulfilment of this right to be an equal. Perhaps this is what is lacking in Pakistan for revolution to happen
About tunisia-
Game over for the giant with clay feet, who collapsed and shamefully fled to this great, freedom-loving democracy known as Saudi Arabia :lol: , as the people took the streets of Tunis and other big cities of the country. The former colonial master, France, looked particularly stupid, having just offered the services of its riot police to their old friend Ben Ali; but so did other powers, such as the US, whose turnaround in favour of the street demonstrators was as sudden as it smacked of political opportunism.
One would love to see the Pakistani people rising similarly to demand equality and justice, instead of leaving the streets to bloodthirsty mullahs, their faces wrung by hatred of anything resembling equality. Why does a popular revolution in Pakistan seem improbable at best?
In a celebrated article dating back to 1962, American sociologist James Davies listed the seven conditions which he saw as common features of every modern political revolution. First, revolutions happen in societies that have been prospering economically for a while, before meeting a sudden, crashing end. As Davies puts it, “Revolutions are most likely to occur when a prolonged period of objective economic and social development is followed by a short period of sharp reversal.” In such a situation, expectations of rising abilities and continued prosperity are dashed and met with frustration and anger. This condition is contiguous to the second one, economic and fiscal irresponsibility from the government, which leads to a daunting combination of economic downturn and mismanagement of the national economy to the point of indebtedness, bankruptcy and currency collapse. Third, a revolution is brought about when there is no longer any social cohesion, when the mutual trust between classes and disparate groups has been eroded, i.e. when the upper classes lose all sight of the common good and aim solely at their own benefit. Fourth, an active group of intellectuals, civil society or political leaders is required, who can articulate and formulate the inchoate aspirations of the disgruntled population. Fifth, a common thread in all revolutions is an incompetent government, either unwilling or unable to meet the demands of the people, or simply blind to its needs. Marie-Antoinette’s infamous “Let them eat cake” sums it all up. Sixth, Davies notes a general blindness in the ruling class concomitant with rapidly changing conditions in the regional or international environment: at a time where decisive leadership is most needed, the economic and political elites utterly fail to give a direction, and instead look inwards to protect their private interests, thus betraying the implicit contract between them and the general population. Seventh, and the final criterion for revolution, is an inept and inconsistent use of force. The government no longer exercises force in a way that can be either understood or deemed fair by the population. Its “monopoly of the legitimate use of force”, to use Max Weber’s term, is challenged from different sections of society, as is challenged the state’s use of force domestically. Unchecked police brutality, police corruption, discontinuous, inconsistent and unfair use of law enforcement is one of the most potent elements leading to a popular uprising.
While most of these conditions are met nowadays in Pakistan, a popular uprising does not appear likely (though we dearly hope to be wrong on that one). Perhaps a fundamental condition for any uprising to occur is a very deep claim to equality. The people must claim the “right to have rights”, in Hannah Arendt’s term. The have-nots must know that they are equal in dignity and in rights with the haves, and formulate the demand for the concrete fulfilment of this right to be an equal. Perhaps this is what is lacking in Pakistan for revolution to happen. The feudal set-up, reinforced over decades by the lack of any decent public education system, the growth of radical Islamic groups fundamentally adverse to equality, has embedded the idea that inequality and discrimination — against women, against minorities, against the poor — was not just acceptable, but the norm to be aspired to.
Now why paqis are incapable of revolution-- I think some of the gurus here has mentioned this earlier ??Shiv/SS
Last edited by krisna on 24 Jan 2011 07:52, edited 1 time in total.
krisna
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by krisna »

Pakistan Army faces PAC trouble too
The Pakistani Army is facing a bill of 120 billion rupees ($1.3 billion) from the Auditor General of Pakistan for using the Lahore stadium for decades without paying the adequate bills for it. The fact was brought out by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC).
The attorney-general had accused that the rent, amounting to 120 billion rupees collected from the illegal occupation of the stadium was being deposited into military accounts and not with the government.
:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Dec. 28, 2

Post by svinayak »

Gagan wrote:My view of how the Americans understand Pakistan and the Af-Pak problem, the events of 9/11 has changed a little bit. I will try and put it in words as best as I can. Hope the gurus can pitch in.

The west (US/UK) have always known that the Pakistanis were bigoted religious rightwingers all throughout their existence. That extended to their armed forces too.

So here is the thing. The west knows that the Pakistanis have been radicalizing all these years, they have these wahabized arabs in their midst, and given the way the middle east arabs are revolting against the US, it is only a matter of time that US forces, US interests get attacked by the pakistanis.
Americans have been involved with Pakistan from 1970 training them against SU.
In the mid 90s american media started showing how Jihad in Pakistan is affecting India.
They asked these questions in the congressional hearing. They wanted to see changes inside India and social changes in the society which they could exploit. They encouraged the bad behavior of Pakis and at the same time were recording the changes in India and Indian govt response to this threat. They were like the back seat umpires looking at the game.
After 911 things changed and the umpire itself got involved in the game without realizing how dangerous the game is. It is expensive and difficult and now they are thinking of cut and run.


Should have listened to India, says Tony Blair


They knew but this fellow is making it simple.
Locked