J & K news and discussion

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 25 Jan 2011 12:17

^^ You know not even a homeless Dog will report such a move, few of them will get shot by KM terrorists resulting in a page-100 news item in Hundi and small editorial lamenting that Hindu fundamentalists are trying to provoke KM's when we are so near a Freakin' breakthru.
Don't we all know how Undie tv's and TOIlet papers of this country work.

Vina ji, your idea would work if your opponent is a decent chap who maybe willing to see your PoV and considers you as important as his own. Not these blood thirsty hounds.

For more understanding of these marauding front line of Kabila currently occupying Kashmir, Pls read thru TSP and BENIS dhaaga.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 25 Jan 2011 12:18

vina wrote:
VikasRaina wrote:Again my question , Is the problem with Indian flag in Lal chowk by BJP or Indian Flag itself ?
Yes. It is the problem with the By BJP part.

Hilarious...

So the Congress should not be allowed to hoist the Indian flag in Sikh dominated areas of Punjab?? How about disallowing Indian missions abroad from inviting anybody from the Congress party / government for flag hoisting, given the large presence of Khalistani trouble-makers in London, Canada and US?

archan · Post by **archan** » 25 Jan 2011 12:19

hiee! ladies (hopefully) and gentlemen, this is your friendly neighborhood moderator speaking. If you feel the need to call members/leaders of party X, other BRFites, or anyone else some beautiful names like a-holes, loonies, ch*tiyas etc. please go right ahead. However if that results in you getting unsavory PMs or facilitates your exit from this time-sapping forum, we shall miss you.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jan 2011 12:20

Raja Ram:

Great post from you. Some disagreements in that as much as US is mollycoddling TSP, that price that TSP is asking is way too high, and I doubt US will accept. And I cannot imagine any Indian leader other than MMS agreeing to such a diabolical deal. If that deal were given to TSP, it will only be a few months later when TSP will demand the Taj Mahal or else.

.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 25 Jan 2011 12:20

^^
They are now just ignoring the sane questions and replying to the emotional ones.Some how,i feel congress supporters here are very much obsessed with the singing and dancing and booze in the yatras.Cant help.Its their way of march.Defenitely remides me of their Bellary march.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 12:20

Vina,
and whom are YOU to decide who gets hurt by what? What thekedaari have YOU taken?

Whether you like it or not, BJP is the principal opposition party of INdia and has CMs in over 6 states of India.

You hate BJP, agreed but you are not even "decent" enough to understand what democracy and rule of law means

You jump in joy when Sonia abuses her power, corrupts the railway official and returns a train. You make merry when the opposition leaders of India are deported from an Indian state. You enjoy by saying that massacred and kicked out and hapless KPs are enjoying themselves.

What kind of intellectual hollowness is this? Where eyes are blinded so much that you take perverse pleasure in all this.

You forget the most important principle of democracy.
"I do not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say that"

When you crush that right, it is dictatorship.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Jan 2011 12:24

Vina Ji,

I am confused Sir.

If BJP is the problem then why doesn't OA hoist the flag Sir? If BJP is the problem then why doesn't any other political party come out and fly the flag? If BJP is a problem then why don't you go and do it? Why doesn't MMS do it? What about Sonia Madam and Rahul Baba?

If you have a problem with BJP onlee, then why sit on a$$ while Paki flag is hoisted there? If BJP is a problem then why try to cut deals in J&K?

Moreover, BJP might have done horrible horrible things in the past. Why does that rob them of their rights as Indian citizen, or to act as principle opposition party?

What have you against leader of opposition in LS and RS?

I have done many horrible things in my past, but does that stop me from doing the right thing in future? Yasin Malik was a terrorist, and may be he is not now, but we still engage him in talks now, don't we?

Sovereignty is a political issue, then why can't political parties do politics on it?

Are you OK with interlocutors working out deal in back rooms sipping Kahva? Why shouldn't a nationalist be part of the solution just like Separatists are?

You Sir, are a good blogger and I like your tenacity to hold your ground, but why do you feel that there should be no opposition to whatever is going on Kashmir. Can't BJP disagree with the way GOI is dealing with the problem? And can't they do politically motivated activity within the gambit of Law to show their POV?

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 25 Jan 2011 12:26

^ So next time there is a outbreak of Cholera or Dengue in Kashmir or God decides to strike with a earthquake, a Non-Kashmiri Doctor, Military person or the ordinary truck driver carrying food and medicine might stop and ponder if he/She should only let a Person of Kashmiri Origin to do the needful.
Why get a dying KM get worked up..

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Jan 2011 12:27

So can we stop the 1 flag drama now. I didn't think so...

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011 ... scc-58.asp

Highest number of tricolors hoisted in Kashmir: APSCC

Srinagar Jan 24: All Parties Sikh Coordination Committee (APSCC) has castigated the Bhartiya Janta Party (BJP) for remaining adamant to hoist the tricolor at Clock Tower in Lal Chowk on January 26.
“It is a matter of fact that highest number of tricolors are hoisted in Kashmir on January 26. Flags are hoisted at nearly 400 to 450 places across the Valley. At the famous Lal Chowk, there are more than 10 places where the tricolor is hoisted, including Clock Tower Lal-Chowk, Palladium Chowk, Needous Hotel, Radio Kashmir, TV Station, Telephone Exchange and at many other places. These flags are hoisted every year by the force personnel,” the Chairman of APSCC, Jagmohan Singh Raina, said in a statement.
“We want to live in peace. We had found a little hope for peace after a long turmoil but once again the BJP - the tall national party - is playing with the sentiments of minority by making them feel that majority in India can any time dominate the minority on issues which have nothing positive with respect to nation's interest,” he added.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 12:28

In case people forget,
Indian citizens can enter Kashmir today without any permit(a politically correct form of visa) only because Shyam Prasad Mukherjee, the original founder of BJP died at the hands of Nehru and Sheikh Abdulla.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 25 Jan 2011 12:31

ramana wrote:So its like exiled. The law allows that?

Yes , under CrPC it can be done, not called "exiled" though. DMs have powers.

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 25 Jan 2011 12:39

Atri wrote:haha.. the problem is always choice...

I would describe the real problem somewhat differently. Ideally there should be at least one political party in a country that represents any given public opinion, so that that public opinion can be adequately considered in law and decision making. Often (not just in India, but other countries as well), a vacuum arises where there is a lack of representation for public opinion in law and decision making.

So, IMHO, there was a vacuum here, with Congress increasingly sidelining nationalistic opinion in the country (and I could bring up various examples from the past few years to illustrate this) and BJP instead of constructively filling the vacuum and challenging the decision making of the government with respect to nationalistic sentiments went out to lay a bait for congress: there will be a large crowd that will be moving through sensitive areas of KV in order to hoist the Indian flag in the heart of region known for its anti-India hatred.

In other words, BJP laid the bait and congress like a brainless rabid dog bit. Congress here is being as political as the BJP if not more. There was (and still is) a fast disappear space where some agreement could have been made where BJP representatives would have been present for a flag hoisting ceremony at Lal Chowk. However, such demands were rejected outright. Instead the state government backed by the central government immediately started preparing its police forces and security mechanism for counting this march, i.e there is a complete breakdown of communication between the opposition and the ruling party.

Having said that, it will be stupid for congress not to keep nationalistic opinion in mind (instead of attempting to marginalize it) during decision making for the next four years of its rule (provided it survives that long). Otherwise, this story is just getting started.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 12:42

Theo,
That article is a joke. It is dated 24th january.

I will request you to kindly remove it and stop spreading false rumours

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 25 Jan 2011 12:43

Theo_Fidel wrote:So can we stop the 1 flag drama now. I didn't think so...

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011 ... scc-58.asp

Highest number of tricolors hoisted in Kashmir: APSCC

..... - is playing with the sentiments of minority by making them feel that majority in India can any time dominate the minority on issues which have nothing positive with respect to nation's interest,” he added.

Why does it disturb the sentiment of 'minority'? Which minority? The terrorists?

If there are lots of flags already why does it matter if there is one more.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Jan 2011 12:45

So, viv is different from viv s, I take it?

Wow, almost like a deja vuof the n-deal dhaga in the early days, the 2 camps are so neatly discerned only.

Sidhant · Post by **Sidhant** » 25 Jan 2011 12:48

arnab wrote: Ah my apologies (though I wasn't aware Duffer was the code for Rahul. I'm not to familiar with these erudite terms) - Well Rahul seems to have done pretty well so far - being an MP and all and probably a future PM. So perhaps compared to the sterling success that you have achieved in your life, he is a failure; but alas compared to me he is a success

Arnab are you really putting some logic or giving arguments for the sake of arguing. Apart from the awesome achievement of being born as Son of RG and SG what else has he accomplished. Being a Gandhi means you are an MP, and being the heir of the ruling dynasty means you will be the future PM, and well educated people like you will make sure that the super duper achievement of being born in Gandhi clan that our Rahul baba has accomplished

gets rewarded by the throne.

Amazing logics and arguments only

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 12:51

Raja Ram wrote:The USG seems to be ok to cut a deal along these lines. In the Indian leadership of MMS and Sonia, they have willing partners. MMS is a strong believer that India's foremost duty is to deliver itself from poverty and it should not become anything other than an economic power. He is also a firm dissenter of a nuclear India. He does not believe in the sanctity of maintaining India's soverign options. Sonia Gandhi has nothing but a mercenary relationship with regard to India. Her motivations are also from her native faith of Christianity and perpetuating the hold of her family in the party and on India.

As per the plan, the Indian people are to be won over by a mix of economic populism fueled by the growing economy, creating a fear amongst minorities of any nationalistic force by painting them as anti-secular, building a based of crony capitalistic sources of power, money and influence. The actions of the current dispensation reeks of this mindset.

Raja Ram,

Interesting post but you haven’t explained why exactly the Congress leadership would accept this deal. That is what’s in it for India. Ok what’s in it for MMS and Sonia Gandhi?

MMS may not be exactly a popular person in this forum filled with “Nationalists”. However, to think of him as stupid would be, err stupid. And MMS I think understands economics well enough to understand that India’s continued growth is dependent on itself and not the US. In fact in terms of economic growth, the US needs India more than the other way around. How do you think MMS thinks that giving away J&K to Pakistan would help him to deliver India from poverty?

Coming to Sonia Gandhi’s raison d'etre of spreading Christianity in the India, why does she need to give away J&K to do that?

Boss you’re also assuming that the Congress party and the UPA is a two-man show with nobody else mattering. Do you serious think so? Do you think that the entire Congress leadership would stand still while these two give away Kashmir to please the US? And do you seriously think that nobody in the Congress realizes that whatever guarantees that the Pakis give the US, they will break and in fact they would get even more ambitious if they got J&K, despite losing every war?

Finally boss I have to say this. If you think a billion plus people can be placated after giving away J&K with just economic growth and Aman ki Asha type lullabies then you under-estimate India. The Congress would have to win elections after J&K is given away doesn’t it? Otherwise how would Sonia Gandhi ensure that her family remains in power and her pet project of spreading Christianity continues?

[OT: Incidentally I wonder how many folks on BRF are Christians? I would think we’ve more of them than we have Muslims. Maybe I’m wrong?]

I must say I always enjoy reading your posts, which contain deep insights. However, sadly I can’t include this one among them. IMHO it contains too much inputs from the political party of which you are a proud member and less from the thinker, analyst that you are.

This is also a ramble and so please don't take it too seriously.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 25 Jan 2011 12:52

Hari Seldon wrote:So, viv is different from viv s, I take it?

mostly same same .. see 'viv' == 'viv' but then there is ' s' ..only some diff.

hind desh key nivaasi sabhi jan ek hain
rang roop vesh bhasha chaahe anek hain

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 25 Jan 2011 12:54

Theo_Fidel wrote:So can we stop the 1 flag drama now. I didn't think so...

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011 ... scc-58.asp

Highest number of tricolors hoisted in Kashmir: APSCC

Srinagar Jan 24: All Parties Sikh Coordination Committee (APSCC) has castigated the Bhartiya Janta Party (BJP) for remaining adamant to hoist the tricolor at Clock Tower in Lal Chowk on January 26.
“It is a matter of fact that highest number of tricolors are hoisted in Kashmir on January 26. Flags are hoisted at nearly 400 to 450 places across the Valley. At the famous Lal Chowk, there are more than 10 places where the tricolor is hoisted, including Clock Tower Lal-Chowk, Palladium Chowk, Needous Hotel, Radio Kashmir, TV Station, Telephone Exchange and at many other places. These flags are hoisted every year by the force personnel,” the Chairman of APSCC, Jagmohan Singh Raina, said in a statement.
“We want to live in peace. We had found a little hope for peace after a long turmoil but once again the BJP - the tall national party - is playing with the sentiments of minority by making them feel that majority in India can any time dominate the minority on issues which have nothing positive with respect to nation's interest,” he added.

Sounds good to me (but with usual doubts about congress leadership) Except that just make sure no Puki flags are going up from now on. It shouldn't be too much of a technical challenge to make sure any Paki flag being hoisted is immediately burned down. And BJP can probably take credit for the fact that the highest number of tricolors have been hoisted in KV this year.

striking my comments since the news appears to be false as per TOI article posted below.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 25 Jan 2011 12:55

Theo_Fidel wrote:So can we stop the 1 flag drama now. I didn't think so...

Highest number of tricolors hoisted in Kashmir: APSCC
Link removed on request of ravi

really?

First time in 19 years flag not hoisted at Lal Chowk http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 501574.cms
Jan 26, 2010

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 12:56

Dhiman, Raghavendra

I repeat. That article is a cruel joke. It is dated 24th January.

Kindly edit your posts so that its traces are removed.
Thanks in advance

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 25 Jan 2011 12:58

ravi_ku wrote:Dhiman, Raghavendra

I repeat. That article is a cruel joke. It is dated 24th January.

Kindly edit your posts so that its traces are removed.
Thanks in advance

Major Paki conspiracy going on here. Obviously. To delude simple gullible aam admi like me.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Jan 2011 13:04

Pranav wrote:There are also many Muslim families in J&K that have been victimized ... for example there are cases of Muslim women being abducted, raped and mutilated by Jihadis. Recall also the recent incident of the girl in Doda who killed a terrorist with an axe ..

It would be good to collect 500 Kashmiri Pandits and another 500 such Muslim victims who are willing to take a stand. Then use that as a core group for activism in J&K.

It will take some time, energy and organizational skill, and maybe a modest amount of funding.

The girl was not Kashmiri.
Not every muslim in J&K is Kashmiri and all of them are not anti-India. By bowing to demands of separatists and not flying the Tiranga we give the impression that the Islamists among KMs control the entire state. What about aspirations of people from Jammu, Laddakh and other people (many of them muslims but pro-India) ?

Regarding Kashmir Pandits and their lush lives, here are few samples from Muthi Camp in Jammu. These people are still living in hovels even after 20 years.

Quite a lot of KPs who've managed well are there due to the fact that it was a communal Shiv Sena-BJP alliance in Maharashtra that allotted a few reserved seats in colleges for them. Neither of the secular gobarments elsewhere and in center lifted a finger to help these displaced Hindus.
It's really surprising how self-professed nationalists in this forum are dissing this Ekta Yatra mostly because BJP is involved. I don't have words to express my feelings.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jan 2011 13:06

Man, they have cushy lives!

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 25 Jan 2011 13:07

amit,

I lay no claim to great insights. I only post and share what I think. This post was essentially a response to a private email addressed to me and ramana wanted me to share it here. So I did.

Yes, I have stated here that I joined the BJP. It is my personal experiment in politics. I chose the BJP for a reason. It is not in power. Not likely to be in power for a while. Has economic policies that are right of centre.

I have however not allowed it come in the way of my posts here in BRF. I am not representing the party here. Never have. Never will. I write what I write here as an Indian.

You are of course welcome to come at your own conclusions on MMS and Sonia Gandhiji. I have come to mine based on what I see from their actions. I do not believe that INC as a party is anti national. It is not. It has a great legacy to protect and this present duo, who are in power, not because I wanted or voted, are the ones calling the shots at the moment. They matter more or the most as per their partymen. Including to those who are far more capable these two and who have nationalistic credentials on par with anyone else. This is by their own admission.

On the question of what it is in it for MMS and Sonia Gandhi, it will be OT for this thread. More over, I am not clued into that. I dont belong to the Niira Radia class sir. I am an ordinary Indian.

I also submit that the central theme of my posts is to provide a context on why did the principal opposition party do what it is doing? And why there is so much opposition to an act that is symbolic but by no means divisive by an elected GOI sworn to protect our soverignity and demonstrate it forcefully?

That is all there is to it. You can dismiss this as tripe. That is your prerogative. I have presented it here in this forum, in a civil and non-disruptive style for others to take it or leave it. Thank you for your kind words of appreciation of my other posts.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Jan 2011 13:12

vina wrote:
VikasRaina wrote:Again my question , Is the problem with Indian flag in Lal chowk by BJP or Indian Flag itself ?
Yes. It is the problem with the By BJP part. For the separatists, esp the hard core ones (aka Gilani Stiffs and others in between), the problem will be the Indian Flag itself. For a lots of people, esp in the valley, it will be the BJP and all it represents.

So, what happens when the BJP goes around waving the flag, even the guy whose problem is the BJP (largely), gets worked up into opposing the Flag (even if that is a lesser problem) and ends up strengthening the Gilani Stiffs (for whom the problem is the Flag itself).

That is where you and your fellow Kashmiris can make a massive difference. Leave the BJP out , and the guys with the "BJP Problem" , but not Flag itself "problem" stops bothering. Then it will be just the Gilani stiffs and others ranting on the Islamist spectrum. Now that will have to be hate speech against whom even they cannot deny are true sons of the soil. That cannot fly very far, when there is no more coercion via the gun in the equation.

.

I think you missed the news item that was posted in this thread it self. A KP organisation based in Jammu has expressed its full support to this rally. Now kindly stop posting this useless drivel about who should do what, when it's quite obvious that you simply don't have a clue. Most of your points just smack of your hatred of BJP (nothing against it) and insinuations that Dogras and KPs are not as same as Indians elsewhere. Why the hell should raising flag by KP be more halaal than done by anybody else.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Jan 2011 13:15

amit wrote: Boss you’re also assuming that the Congress party and the UPA is a two-man show with nobody else mattering. Do you serious think so? Do you think that the entire Congress leadership would stand still while these two give away Kashmir to please the US? And do you seriously think that nobody in the Congress realizes that whatever guarantees that the Pakis give the US, they will break and in fact they would get even more ambitious if they got J&K, despite losing every war?

One woman Show Sir.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 13:25

Raja Ram,

Please don't misunderstand me. I don't consider your posts as "tripe". There are several posters whose posts I do consider as "tripe" and I don't bother to respond to them in a serious manner.

I responded to you because I value what you write and so wanted to understand your conclusions in that particular post.

I respect the fact that you have chosen a political party to be associated with. I wish I could have made a similar choice. Unfortunately I don't find any with whom I can relate to fully. That said I have had immense respect for MMS for his rightful emphasis on the economy. (However his reaction to the 2G scam has dented my views quite a lot).

But all that is OT.

Trying to understand what's happening in J&K is most important. Irrespective of the merits or otherwise of BJP's yatra, it's going to fade away after tomorrow. However, J&K and the problem we have there is going to stay.

How that's going to be tackled is what I'm more interested in. And what I find interesting is that every government that comes to power, seems to align with the National Conference. That would suggest that whether we like them or not but the Abdullah father-son duo still matter in the Valley. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing only time will tell.

However, I'm quite sure that no substantive move, like giving joint sovereignty to the Valley can take place through a fiat. That's not because I don't think the Congress is incapable of such treachery but because I firmly believe that our system has enough checks and balances to prevent that from happening.

In my opinion what's going on is just wearing down the separatists. It's been two generation in the Valley which has lived with militancy. Let's see how many more generations are willing to do the same. I'm reminded of the North-east.

JMT

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 13:27

Sri wrote:
Boss you’re also assuming that the Congress party and the UPA is a two-man show with nobody else mattering. Do you serious think so? Do you think that the entire Congress leadership would stand still while these two give away Kashmir to please the US? And do you seriously think that nobody in the Congress realizes that whatever guarantees that the Pakis give the US, they will break and in fact they would get even more ambitious if they got J&K, despite losing every war?
One woman Show Sir.

Aha! Thank you jee! Now that you point it out everything makes sense. Was scratching my head all this while!

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Jan 2011 13:31

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2011 ... vel-plans/

Government Derails BJP’s Kashmir Travels

Talk about own goals. Nice going guys...

“Hoisting the tricolor in Srinagar will prove Kashmir is an integral part of India,” Anurag Thakur, president of the youth wing of the BJP, told India Real Time Monday.

Well, as with most gifts, some might say it’s generally the thought behind them that counts.

Yup! That yatra word again...

http://ptinews.com/news/1295407_Nitish- ... -s--yatra-

Nitish opposes BJP's 'yatra'

BJP ally and Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar today opposed the party's plan to hoist the national flag in Sringar saying it has "no meaning" given the kind of tension prevailing in Kashmir Valley.

"Given the kind of tension that is prevailing in the valley, this yatra (Rashtriya Ekta Yatra) has no meaning and I don't support this", Kumar said when asked about his views on BJP's plan.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 13:38

amit,

The most important difference between north east and JK is there is no active claimant for northeast.

We know that even after 5, 10 years of "leaving alone" and the situation not improving, there is no one trying to actively capture it. So even very big losses can be absorbed in the long run.

Where as JK has active claimant, who even if eye lids close for a moment, he will try to get it --kargil. And then there is China and international players like US which formed Hurriyat.

Completely different dynamics come into picture.

This MMS/Sonia govt has not shown that they will be strict with bottomlines like no Pakistan control to valley, . SeS fiasco, Siachen threat where army chief had to come out in the open do not give much confidence.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 13:38

Theo_Fidel wrote:http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2011 ... vel-plans/

Government Derails BJP’s Kashmir Travels

Talk about own goals. Nice going guys...

“Hoisting the tricolor in Srinagar will prove Kashmir is an integral part of India,” Anurag Thakur, president of the youth wing of the BJP, told India Real Time Monday.

Didn't know there were doubts that needed proving?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jan 2011 13:44

Probably you also missed statements by Azam Khan and Omar Abdullah.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 13:46

never seen a dotted line on kashmir by bbc??

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 Jan 2011 13:47

amit wrote: Aha! Thank you jee! Now that you point it out everything makes sense. Was scratching my head all this while!

You asked the question. I simply replied onlee... why the sarcasm..? Hain Jee?

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 13:48

ravi_ku wrote:amit,

The most important difference between north east and JK is there is no active claimant for northeast.

Most North-east states wanted independence. And China was and still is behind every single one of these outfits. The only difference is that the folks there grew tired and with a loss of support the outfits splintered with one group suing for peace.

Remember that the agitations in the North-east started right after Independence and only ended in the early 1990s.

In contrast J&K started in 1989, more seriously only in the mid 1990s, so there's a way yet to go, IMO.

Also, I'm not too sure that, apart from the Geelani joker, anyone of the Harried Rats and JLKF want to go to Pakistan. They seem to want independent Valley, whatever that means.

Things like Kargil have happened and will happen and this figurative talk about eye lids closed don't apply to a country as it does to individual. For example the Congress may close or avert its eyes, but the Nationalist BJP is always there to keep a hawk eye open as is the armed forces.

Remember the kind of fiasco we had after SeS? I agree that was stupid on the part of MMS to have agreed to that document. However, apart from giving the Pakis numerous point scoring opportunities, has anything substantive changed on the ground, apart from the fact that the Congress had to do plenty of downhill skiing?

In the Siachen issue, how do we know it was not a good cop, bad cop routine? Wasn't the same thing reenacted with the armed forces powers issue recently?

Sorry boss I think our institutions and checks and balances are pretty strong. To behave otherwise is grandstanding.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 25 Jan 2011 13:49

so 1/3 rd of kashmir occupation by Pak in 1947 and 1/4 by China in 1962 is a myth??

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 13:50

Marten wrote:amit, did you miss the Packi flag at Lal Chowk? There are doubts. No question about it.

Where did I say there are no doubts. All I'm saying is that it's not easy to circumvent the system we have to do a sellout.

In this high charged thread, where folks are using loving adjectives to describe other posters with whom they have slight differences of opinion, please don't put words in my mouth!

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Jan 2011 13:52

Edited

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jan 2011 13:53

ravi_ku wrote:so 1/3 rd of kashmir occupation by Pak in 1947 and 1/4 by China in 1962 is a myth??

Sigh!

So 1947 Pak Lashkar's attack and the occupation of Aksai Chin (plus the land gifted by the Pakis to China) is all the fault of the present Congress dispensation?

There are two ways you can get to the bottom of this. One is to read up on the history of that period. Or the other way is to see the film that I read Gadkari is planning.

Either should suffice, I guess.