Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

[Vivek K]

User trials start this summer. Hold your breath for expected "torsion bar", "renk transmission sabotage (I meant failure)", headlights that do not work,"tyres that do not inflate properly", "engine not overheating enough to make chai" failures. With IA the user agency, 2014 is impossible. Since IA is putting together an aviation wing, could the IAF be interested in an armoured "squadron"?

IMHO, if the Arjun cannot fly, it stands no chance against the T-90. Like the arty gun, what parameters did the T-90 fail and get a waiver for? Can the Arjun get the same waivers?

[Vipul]

Arjun Mark–II tanks to enter service by 2014.

India will begin production of an upgraded version of the indigenous Arjun main battle tank (MBT), the Mark-II, by early 2014, according to Indian defence officials. The first set of Mark-II tanks already rolling off production lines for summer and winter trials this year.

According to Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) officials the Mark-II would feature several upgrades, including an indigenous engine that would replace the existing German engines and transmission systems of the 58-tonne Arjun Mark-I.

The engine and transmission systems are provided by German companies MTU and Renk respectively.

The first set of Mark-II tanks are being readied for trials within a year of the government sanctioning the Arjun Mark-II project last year in May.

'In 24 months from now or early 2014, the Arjun Mark-II tanks will be ready for production,' DRDO officials have said.

The Indian Army has placed orders for 248 Arjun Mark-I tanks of which 124 have already been inducted by the army for operational service. The army is now operating the 124 Arjuns as part of two regiments in the western sector and last May placed an order for an additional 124 tanks, especially after a stunning performance against the much touted Russian T-90S 'Bhishma' tanks.

The additional order also ensures that the production line at the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi, remains operational till the Mark-II version is ready for production.

In comparative trials last year, which had been repeatedly put off by the army for some reason or the other the Russian-built T-90S MBTs were outperformed by the Arjuns in virtually all parameters. Seasoned observers noted that the Arjuns would have done even better had the crews involved in the trials been more experienced.

The results left the army with no options but to order an additional two regiments.

According to defence officials, the Arjun Mark-II will differ from the Mark-I in at least a dozen parameters including missile firing capability with the assistance of a laser homing device. For some reason, though the system was tested on the Mark-I version of the tank, it was not made part of the final configuration of the initial lot of 124 tanks handed over to the army, and nor does it form part of the configuration of the next lot of 124 tanks.

The missile system, officials said, has a range of about eight km and homes in on enemy tanks with the aid of a laser-guided system.

Other upgrades would include better explosive-reactive armour for the tank to protect it from enemy missiles and rockets, improved sighting facility which would provide a wider view of the battlefield, night-vision capability and a better communication system.

The Arjun Mark-II will have indigenous component of over 90 per cent, the exceptions being some hydraulic and electronic systems.

[Vivek K]

The results left the army with no options but to order an additional two regiments

This while a 1000 of the T-90s were ordered!!

[chackojoseph]

Does anyone know what happened to the Tank-Ex experiement? AFAIK, some squadrons were equipped for trials, and it offered the best of both worlds.

last I heard the T-72 chasis had problems handling the recoil of gandiva.

Its a 20 ton turret with 4 man config. It has to be adapted to 3 men with shaved off weight.

[sum]

In comparative trials last year, which had been repeatedly put off by the army for some reason or the other the Russian-built T-90S MBTs were outperformed by the Arjuns in virtually all parameters. Seasoned observers noted that the Arjuns would have done even better had the crews involved in the trials been more experienced.

The results left the army with no options but to order an additional two regiments.

Pretty strong language even from the DDM!! Guess everyone and their uncle have now concluded that the IA handling of the T-90/Arjun saga was/is really fishy.

[SaiK]

This while a 1000 of the T-90s were ordered!!

elementary mr. watson.

btw, who is making the 1500hp engine - any project/product name?

[vic]

It is not clear if the production of first 124 mark-1 are over or still continuing.

Secondly it is not clear if next 124 are also mark-1 to be produced between 2011-14 or

We will directly go over to 124 Mark-2 and the production line will remain idle for couple of years

[Sanku]

Pretty strong language even from the DDM!! Guess everyone and their uncle have now concluded that the IA handling of the T-90/Arjun saga was/is really fishy.

It was not, journalists need rabid sensastion to sell, so they will swing from Arjun dabba one day to Army sidelining great Arjun the next.

The issue is simple Arjun took time to build, when ready is being ordered in systematic manner to meet the eventual force fit of 50:50 between T 90 and Indian Arjun and Arjun++ tanks.

[d_berwal]

Pretty strong language even from the DDM!! Guess everyone and their uncle have now concluded that the IA handling of the T-90/Arjun saga was/is really fishy.

It was not, journalists need rabid sensastion to sell, so they will swing from Arjun dabba one day to Army sidelining great Arjun the next.

The issue is simple Arjun took time to build, when ready is being ordered in systematic manner to meet the eventual force fit of 50:50 between T 90 and Indian Arjun and Arjun++ tanks.

does the DDM report, this:
- 2 Regts are waiting for ammo to start their firing practice, this had delayed the training and still is. after 1yr .
- the so called tin call people hate today, almost covers the 3 armoured divisions
- ARJUN Mk II will have K5 inserts to strengthen the reactive armour.

[Rahul M]

- the so called tin call people hate today is almost covers the 3 armoured divisions {in tinfoil I presume ?}
- ARJUN Mk II will have K5 inserts to strengthen the reactive armour. (ever thought of a career as a scriptwriter in bollywood ?)

[d_berwal]

- the so called tin call people hate today is almost covers the 3 armoured divisions {in tinfoil I presume ?}
- ARJUN Mk II will have K5 inserts to strengthen the reactive armour. (ever thought of a career as a scriptwriter in bollywood ?)

if you have chiawalls access get it corrected is it tin can or 2 regts who converted to Arjun.
K5 story is what DRDO is saying.

I dont hate Arjun, but DRDO and Avdhi and OFB are still not serious enough (DRDO may have improved but still lacking)

I have seen both the toys and most of people here and shuklaw uncle have been unable to point out the main advantages of Arjun over a Tin can.
The Tin can is mature in its class
Arjun still has to mature in its class

Thats the reality (my point of view)

[Rahul M]

sorry, you could be right but I can't take what you say on this particular issue at face value. you are incredibly biased to one side and have a history on BS'ing on the topic. (please don't mind the straight talk)

I eagerly read your posts in any other thread though.

[Gurneesh]

if you have chiawalls access get it corrected is it tin can or 2 regts who converted to Arjun.
K5 story is what DRDO is saying.

I dont hate Arjun, but DRDO and Avdhi and OFB are still not serious enough (DRDO may have improved but still lacking)

I have seen both the toys and most of people here and shuklaw uncle have been unable to point out the main advantages of Arjun over a Tin can.
The Tin can is mature in its class
Arjun still has to mature in its class

Thats the reality (my point of view)

Firstly, both t-90 and Arjun are made by the same organization, so any criticism about Arjun Manufacturing quality will also apply to t-90.

Secondly, Arjun though still has to mature is much better than t-90 (as shown by the trials). t-90 has very little room for further improvement while Arjun has a lot, so it can be much much better than t-90. Think of it as f-16 vs Typhoon (only without the much higher price of typhoon).

1st t-90 purchase makes sense as IA would have wanted a stop gap until Arjun matures to acceptable levels. Even a second batch of 310 would have made some sense, but serial production when Arjun is performing better makes no sense.

The tin can covers 3 Armd divisions because Army went for whole scale induction even when there were issues with the tank (and Arjun was ridiculed for similar faults). If I am not wrong most of the t-90's inducted still have problems with catherine sight.

In comparison Mk1 Arjun is better than t-90 in all respects and still it gets only a token order of 128 while t-90 gets an order of 1000's .

IA should have ordered 500 Mk1's which would have allowed production to ramp up to 100/year and would have finished by the time Mk-2 will arrived. And then a further 1000 Mk-2 would have been nice (instead of the 1500 odd t-90 that we will now get).

P.S. By 1995 it was known that Arjun would be a 60Ton MBT with a crew of 4. If army had problem with that they should have raised this when the design was freezed and not use it as a lame excuse to not buy the tank when it performs better than expected. Plus even if Arjun was 80% imported, it would be better than t-90 which is 100% imported.

[Vivek K]

Gurneesh, we all love the Army. There are people here who seem duty bound to respect their service and I have no problem with that. However, I find it disappointing that presented with tons of evidence these folks can still not overturn their blind belief. Even a 5th grader could tell you that there is something seriously wrong with all this. Loving your institution means protecting it from such wrong decisions in my books.

[SAditya]

I am sure that there are few ex-service men or even tanker in this forum. Most of the people on this forum and outside believe, based on the reports from different sources, that Arjun is better compared to T-90. Still Army has gone ahead with T-90s and is continuously ignoring Arjun. Are we missing something over here? Definitely the personnels of Army are not dumb. Is there something on technical side may be that we don't know and based on that Army is going ahead with T-90? Or are there some established interests who want to go ahead with T-90 for some personal reason?

[Gurneesh]

Gurneesh, we all love the Army. There are people here who seem duty bound to respect their service and I have no problem with that. However, I find it disappointing that presented with tons of evidence these folks can still not overturn their blind belief. Even a 5th grader could tell you that there is something seriously wrong with all this. Loving your institution means protecting it from such wrong decisions in my books.

+ 1 to that.

I met a friend of mine (from school) last feb. When i found out that he was actually just about to graduate from some army engineering college (cannot remember the name) and will be working on t-72's, I plainly asked him "Why does the army hate Arjun?".

His simple answer was " It is obsolete."
Me (slightly shocked): "Compared to what?"
Him: "t-90."
Me:" t-90 is nothing but an upgraded t-72. which is essentially 4 decades old".
Him:"But Arjun has problems."
Me:"All of them has been fixed,plus so did t-90."
Him:"I don't know, we don't make decisions, it is upto mod and DGMF."

As I did not get any valid counter arguments i just let it go there as we had other catching up to do.

I guess, he believed what his superior told him (important for functioning of an army). So, the whole army will believe what the DGMF (which really is the main culprit) tells.

Some years ago, I asked a relative (who is in army) about Arjun. He said "Arjun is a failure. We have the Bhishma now, which is very good." I did not have any knowledge at that time so i believed him.

[d_berwal]

Gurneesh, we all love the Army. There are people here who seem duty bound to respect their service and I have no problem with that. However, I find it disappointing that presented with tons of evidence these folks can still not overturn their blind belief. Even a 5th grader could tell you that there is something seriously wrong with all this. Loving your institution means protecting it from such wrong decisions in my books.

+ 1 to that.

I met a friend of mine (from school) last feb. When i found out that he was actually just about to graduate from some army engineering college (cannot remember the name) and will be working on t-72's, I plainly asked him "Why does the army hate Arjun?".

His simple answer was " It is obsolete."
Me (slightly shocked): "Compared to what?"
Him: "t-90."
Me:" t-90 is nothing but an upgraded t-72. which is essentially 4 decades old".
Him:"But Arjun has problems."
Me:"All of them has been fixed,plus so did t-90."
Him:"I don't know, we don't make decisions, it is upto mod and DGMF."

As I did not get any valid counter arguments i just let it go there as we had other catching up to do.

I guess, he believed what his superior told him (important for functioning of an army). So, the whole army will believe what the DGMF (which really is the main culprit) tells.

Some years ago, I asked a relative (who is in army) about Arjun. He said "Arjun is a failure. We have the Bhishma now, which is very good." I did not have any knowledge at that time so i believed him.

I remember a conversation with a junior of mine now in Arjun induction. This is how the conversation went:
Me: Tell me about Arjun, finally its come its so good.
He: Its ok sir, soo many defects and high maintainence.

Me: Defects, but newspaper reports dont mention them.
He: The lot inducted had 90+ defects recorder from trials onwards and no solution as yet.

Me: What do u mean?
He: See sir, the next lot of tanks will have some 50+ defects rectified only and and the last batch will have all 90 rectified, (Hope so).. that will take another 1 year, but looking at history it might take 2 years or so. And them what about first lot.. no one knows.

Me: Ahhhhh!!!!
He: we were made "bali ka bakara"

Me: is it that bad.
He: no its just frustrating. Tank is not bad but it has its issues. Most of which should have been removed before induction. Now it looks like we will be in induction for 3 years.

Me: which one do prefer, if you have to choose.
He: Given choice T-90, very low on maintainence, I will get time for social life instead of garages.

Me: but everyone says T-90 is upgraded T-72!!!
He: yaa for sure!!! as if BMW mini is upgraded version of Morris Mini

[Kanson]

Me: which one do prefer, if you have to choose.
He: Given choice T-90, very low on maintainence, I will get time for social life instead of garages.

Here is the verdict....So if one wants to enjoy social life and time to do other things...then chose and join T-90 regiment.

But if one wants to win the war and come home safe...then the choice is obvious...as trials proved.

Brings back my memory on ex- Col. Ajai blurting, "wht is with T-72 or T-90 or Arjun, there is going to be no war btw Ind and Pak". If such attitude is omnipresent then choosing T-90 regiment is the obvious choice! I guess IA has done the wise thing.

[d_berwal]

Me: which one do prefer, if you have to choose.
He: Given choice T-90, very low on maintainence, I will get time for social life instead of garages.

Here is the verdict....So if one wants to enjoy social life and time to do other things...then chose and join T-90 regiment.

But if one wants to win the war and come home safe...then the choice is obvious...as trials proved.

Brings back my memory on ex- Col. Ajai blurting, "wht is with T-72 or T-90 or Arjun, there is going to be no war btw Ind and Pak". If such attitude is omnipresent then choosing T-90 regiment is the obvious choice! I guess IA has done the wise thing.

How will you win a war if your equipment will not leave the garages.

And lets keep shuklaw uncle out of it. (he changes his color like Chameleon)

the probability of coming back home safe is same in both of them. may be more in Arjun if it cant leave the garages...!!!!

[ParGha]

Plus even if Arjun was 80% imported, it would be better than t-90 which is 100% imported.

It depends on the source of the components. The moment all the core components of the Arjun can be manufactured in-house, it becomes a really better strategic option than the T-90. But for now, for India, Russia is more reliable supplier than W Europeans.

[arnab]

Interesting. The initial case against the Arjun was that it was too heavy, too wide, too short, too slow and couldn't shoot straight. Once it completely whipped the T-90 in all parameters, the focus seems to be on - 'it is too difficult to maintain' Perhaps the 'mature' relations ensure that the T-90 is maintenence free at least on paper.

[ParGha]

How will you win a war if your equipment will not leave the garages.

d_berwal,

Genuine Question: How would you compare the maintenance requirment for T-55s vs Vijayanta/Vickers Regiments?

[srai]

I remember a conversation with a junior of mine now in Arjun induction. This is how the conversation went:
Me: Tell me about Arjun, finally its come its so good.
He: Its ok sir, soo many defects and high maintainence.[/u][/b].

For one thing, T-90 is an updated version of the T-72. Russia has been developing these since 1980s/1990s. IA has had these for almost as long in its service. With over 15 to 30 years in service, I am sure even the Arjuns will have ironed out all of its issues.

Initially, every major product will have maintenance and other serviceability issues. That's common.

[srai]

...
I remember a conversation with a junior of mine now in Arjun induction. This is how the conversation went:

...

Me: Defects, but newspaper reports dont mention them.
He: The lot inducted had 90+ defects recorder from trials onwards and no solution as yet.

Me: What do u mean?
He: See sir, the next lot of tanks will have some 50+ defects rectified only and and the last batch will have all 90 rectified, (Hope so).. that will take another 1 year, but looking at history it might take 2 years or so. And them what about first lot.. no one knows.

...

Me: is it that bad.
He: no its just frustrating. Tank is not bad but it has its issues. Most of which should have been removed before induction. Now it looks like we will be in induction for 3 years.

...i

Are you sure you are not pulling one on us here?

I find it very suspicious that you mention 90+ defects and induction in 3 years (from some "Junior") right after the news article written by SriSri Upgraded Arjun MBT Mark-II Serial Production to Begin in 2014, which mentions more than 90 upgrades and 2014 as serial production date.

BTW, upgrades are not the same as defects

[Gurneesh]

...
I remember a conversation with a junior of mine now in Arjun induction. This is how the conversation went:

...

Me: Defects, but newspaper reports dont mention them.
He: The lot inducted had 90+ defects recorder from trials onwards and no solution as yet.

Me: What do u mean?
He: See sir, the next lot of tanks will have some 50+ defects rectified only and and the last batch will have all 90 rectified, (Hope so).. that will take another 1 year, but looking at history it might take 2 years or so. And them what about first lot.. no one knows.

...

Me: is it that bad.
He: no its just frustrating. Tank is not bad but it has its issues. Most of which should have been removed before induction. Now it looks like we will be in induction for 3 years.

...i

Even if it is true, i think a t-90 fellow would also say the same thing when compared with t-72. Saar, the TI does not work, we might as well have the t-72 . Or maybe that "it is too hot in there" (i guess was why the t-90 crews had to be rotated during the trials while Arjun didnot need any such thing).

[Vivek K]

Wonderful hatchet job berwal sahab!! So what did your junior say when you told him that over a sustained period, the Arjun beat the T-90 pants down with less experienced crews? And what did he say when you told him that even with its defective soul, if he was attacked while in the Arjun (even without ERA) he would have better chances to survive than in the T-90? And what did he say when you told him that while fitting an a/c on the T-90, there were serious complications while the Arjun could easily add a/cs?

And oh, BTW would you enlighten us dorks by listing the 90 defects that your junior talked about? I will then prepare a list of 180 defects that the T-90 has still not corrected.

[Kailash]

This is not very reliable information - but heard from someone working the testing team - said some of the features already claimed to have been implemented on Arjun Mk1 (air conditioning is the example he discussed) are still undergoing some tests and are targeted for full implementation only on the Mk2.

Is it possible that things tested and perfected on Arjun after the serial production of Mk1 began, are not getting into (atleast the first batch of ) Mk1s ?

Or while scaling up these enhancements to 124 tanks they are facing some issues? Isnt this expected in a first time development?

[Vivek K]

Kailash please be specific. what issues are you talking about. The tank is perhaps the most thoroughly tested in the history of tanks worldwide. Think about your post, 15 Arjuns squared with 15 T-90s with experienced crews (and T-90 crews were allowed to rotate so that only fresh crews fought the Arjun) and the T-90 could not perform to the same calibre.

So please point out the specifics instead of vaguely talking about issues like IA does to confuse and belittle the Arjun.

[Kailash]

These may be minor snags or teething problems, or issues with productionizing the technology demostrated on the test platforms. I am really not sure, and that source is not very reliable.

Capability of the platform is not under question here. Has DRDO delivered the entire list of features in the first block of 124 is something I am not sure of. What I heard from him was that the enhancements that are going into the Mk2 are already undergoing tests. Missile firing and airconditioning and few other things that were mentioned by him.

[Vivek K]

So what are you saying then? Every weapon system bought from foreign vendors has shown teeting troubles. Take the latest - BAE Hawk where HAL had even filed for penalties. Dig up the Mig-29.

Missile firing was not in the GSQR nor was the A/C since IA did not like it as an institution. If i am not mistaken, then the a/c had to be removed from the Arjun because of the GSQRs.

Pray tell us what you would have us do with regards to the Arjun?

[manjgu]

guys, i think Berwal has a valid point.. the whole philosophy of russian stuff is low maintainence even if it is not cutting edge. during the 2nd ww , the German Tiger was a better tank in all respects mobility, firepower , armour etc.. but the russian T series tank were always there in the battle field in numbers while the germans were busy repairing faults in their superior tanks.. and won the battle for ruskies...

though 1 to 1 the german tiger would always beat the russian T series tank...

we armchair generals are often more obsessed with things which are maybe not so important to real practitioners... i mean if the guy who uses the tanks has a certain opinion on the subject then we need to respect it. while i am all for indian stuff ( the real way to go) but in the interim the contrarian point needs to be respected as well.

[vina]

These may be minor snags or teething problems, or issues with productionizing the technology demostrated on the test platforms. I am really not sure, and that source is not very reliable.

Capability of the platform is not under question here. Has DRDO delivered the entire list of features in the first block of 124 is something I am not sure of. What I heard from him was that the enhancements that are going into the Mk2 are already undergoing tests. Missile firing and airconditioning and few other things that were mentioned by him.

Airconditioning indeed! In fact, the Army shot down the airconditioning proposal for Arjun long ago when it's electronics couldn't withstand the heat in the earlier trials ..Why we had our own Diyar Karnail Ajai Shukla harrumhping.. Bah! What would you know about fighting in summer in Rajasthan and Punjab, while small matter, the TI and sights dont work in the T-90 as well , without airconditioning, while they now work perfectly well in the Arjun!.

This airconditioning thingie is needed for the T-90 and NOT Arjun. This chaiwalla is something along the lines of DDM reporting.. Err. Torsion bar of suspension broke during competitive trials. So Arjun Bad Bad.. DRDO Murdabad! .

Problem is, it is the T-90 which has a torsion bar suspension and also needs Airconditioning!. So , if T-90 breaks down or is blind, it is the Arjun's problem!. So anyway, Arjun Bad, Bad. DRDO Murdabad!

[Kailash]

d_berwal wrote:

Me: Defects, but newspaper reports dont mention them.
He: The lot inducted had 90+ defects recorder from trials onwards and no solution as yet.

This is what triggered the post. From the testing that is currently being performed, I know that some feautures are beyond Mk1 GSQR. I will try to get more specifics here. Meanwhile, it was pure speculation on my part - that some feautures are still under testing and only due on the second block of the Mk1.

This chaiwalla is something along the lines of DDM reporting..

very possible...

[Arya Sumantra]

guys, i think Berwal has a valid point.. the whole philosophy of russian stuff is low maintainence even if it is not cutting edge.

Minimalist design is one thing but quality control has not been and NEVER been a russkie forte. If the benchmark was a Toyota standard product, it would have been credible. All this tincan spends less time in a garage and other BS is nothing but fresh psy-ops from barrage of drones sent on damage control for sell outs. The import mafia limited to interaction within their self-patting circles have NO idea about the bloodboil of common man on treatment they have meted out to indigenous stuff. And here they are, ready to knock with new set of excuses before MK2 trials.

[Rahul M]

manjgu ji, the allegation that some express that arjun is high maintenance is simply put, bunkum. the very epitome of a modern tank vis-a-vis a 60's design like the tin cans is lesser requirement of maintenance man hours. btw, did you read the report by an EME officer on T-90 maintenance ?

the thing sounded like the health chart of a 90 year old, it seemed like nothing worked on it. what's the point of low maintenance if it doesn't deliver what's needed in terms of performance ?
the comparison b/w tigers and T-34's don't cut mustard here because the T-34 was still an extremely capable tank wrt the tiger, T-90 and arjun are not even in the same league.

SAditya, the reason is much simpler. today's IA tankmen are brought up on the T-72 and are not ready to come out of their thinking process.
the arjun itself is designed according to requirements of the army. fortunately we had some level headed men at the top back then and they chose the best design philosophy for IA next tank.

[manjgu]

arya ... there is a certain design philosophy which the russians follow.. when did i say that QC is their forte... their forte is to churn out eqpt which is not maintenance intensive, rugged and in numbers.

Rahul... in principle I am all for Arjuns... but if there is a body of officers who think otherwise ( for whatever reasons and i do agree the reasons could range from fear of trying out something new to some genuine reason to some financial benefit ) ... then this body of people/officers ( whose opinion really matters) will have to won over for arjun to be a success. all i am saying is that if there is indeed a genuine reason as berwal seems to suggest then it needs to be addressed.

[ArmenT]

Dinakar...thanks for posting the video link. This was one of the best TV shows on Arjun.

I have listed some of the interesting pieces I heard on the show. Awesome job by Kalaignar TV host, Kartick/Actor, DRDO professionals in explaining the features.

Desert Ferrari!

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl3nFjqz ... r_embedded

More accurate translation of the first part:
starting around 4:15 ( I skipped the earlier bits):

K: It's a pleasure to meet you sir
S: Nice to see you once again Sir in person. I've seen (you) many times in TV and cinema.
K: Sir, I've read the DRDO material, but I'm here for the first time, so what is DRDO's functionality. What does CVRDE do. Can you please explain these?
S: Ministry of Defence, to cater the needs of services, Army, Navy and Airforce, these are the 3 main (groups). In order to fulfil their requirements, the ministry of defence, we have an R&D setup, that is called DRDO - Defence, Research Development Organization.
K: So regarding the Arjun Tank, we've read a lot about it in the media. So what is the main aim of the Arjun tank, what's the speciality of the Arjun tank?
S: See basically, if you look in India, the first tank we produced was the Vijayanta Tank, after that, the T-72 and now T-90. All these are actually foreign-produced tanks, but we purchased their technology and we're producing them here. This is called "License Production".
S: However, for India, for Indian requirements... see, in our country, our borders are not all the same. Today, if you look around the world, the worst terrain in the world is ours. In Mahajan and Pokhran, if you go there to those ranges, you'll see lots of sand dunes, lots of ups and downs, fine sand and you know very well about the temperature. If you go there, either the temperature goes to the lowest or the highest. 55 (degree C) is easily reached. This is the "threat". If you look at the main problems: a hot environment, dusty environment and under heavy loads. If you consider all these problems for Indian requirements, an Indian produced solution, this is the only tank (to work with these conditions), the Arjun, that is the main speciality. No tank in the world will serve like Arjun.
K: Wow <clap clap>
S: That's the main thing. That is justified. One Israeli company certified that. With these conditions, no other tank except Arjun, can perform like this.
K: Now regarding this tank's functionality, how fast can it go?
S: We have 1400 horsepower engine.
K: Ok
S: It is a fully automatic transmission, 4 speed forward, 2 speed reverse and we can steer. If you want to look at the superior features of this tank, we can rotate this tank using one track. We can rotate the tank standing in the same place, that is called "pivot ton". If you do it with one track, it is called "neutral ton", both turns are possible. If you look at the high speed, the current Arjun we have with the 60 ton mass, it can hit 70 kmph, it will fly (at that speed). Of course, 70 kmph is on a concrete road. If you change the terrain, loose sand, hard sand, according to the terrain, because of the resistance variations, so your tank will correspondingly slow down.
K: You've been talking about this tank, but when are we going to see the tank. Anxiously...
S: Tank's right here
K: I have this superstar image of the tank...
S: You can drive the tank and then you'll feel it. You'll see how simple it is to drive this tank. Some ministers have driven it already. You know politicians aren't really risk takers . And they themselves said, "yes" and drove the vehicle.
K: You've told us so many matters. It gives us great satisfaction to know that one of the best tanks in the world -- we've developed it ourselves. Us ordinary citizens, looking from outside the organization, we don't normally know about such matters. But by giving us a look at the process, with so much testing, even foreign scientists admiring of such a tank, that we are going to see it today is very exciting to me. Thank you so much for the time, the time you gave us to explain things to us. We always appreciate the effort. Thank you so much.
S: Yes, through Kalaignar TV, the message will reach all the people and with Karthick asking the questions, more people will surely watch this program.
<thank you, thank you, all the best etc.>

Lady voice over: Afterwards, Karthick gets to visit the Simulation center

voice behind K: What it looks like here, that's what it will look in real life. If you go in a bullock-cart, it will feel a certain way. If you drive a car, it will feel a certain way. This simulator mimics the feel of an Arjun tank.

Lady voice over: After that, he (Karthik) himself got a chance to drive the tank.

Guy explaining: It is divided into 3 parts.
K: Ok sir
GE: Drivers compartment, this is the turret compartment, erm fighting compartment, this is the powerpack compartment. Here's where the transmission and engine are. Transmission output is connected to this (inaudible, sounds like "sprocket"). That only drives these sprockets. The uniqueness of this is the suspension, you can see it (here) actually. It is called a "hydro-pneumatic transmision". Actually you'll get non-linear springing characteristics.
K: Ok sir, what kind of protection (does it have?).
GE: protection... (gets cut off by K who asks: "does it only have impact protection or anything else as well?")
GE: See, whenever a weapon fires, this has Kanchan armor, special armor developed by our sister concern (didn't give more details, or was edited out...)

Male reporter: Well he's about to drive the Arjun tank, so let's ask him some questions before that. Sir, you've probably driven a bike and a car, this is the first tank you're going to drive. How do you feel about this?
K: Well, we've already experienced how this tank will drive in the simulator. And Sivakumar sir even described this as a "Desert Ferrari" and a "world class best tank". Just to see this in person is a big matter. That they're giving me the chance to drive it is an even bigger exciting matter. And it is a wonderful thing. At an international level, there is nobody like us, that is also a big matter. And they even showed me the proof. I thank the DRDO for giving me this opportunity.

K: It is in second, should I put it into first?
Driving Coach: Yes, put it in first?
K: Like this
DC: Yes, just like that
K: Ok

...
K: It feels just like driving a car. Because of the automatic transmission, just stepping on the accelerator is all that is needed. Ah.. even for first gear and second gear, If you put it on automatic, you can go whatever speed you want to. It feels like it can easily go upto 70 kmph. I think the name "Desert Ferrari" is not wrong at all. The steering is fearfully easy. Even when you turn it lightly, the steering is responding nicely.

...
K: In the same way, the suspension, because of the pneumatic-hydraulic suspension, when you enter a dip, inside you don't feel a thing. Unlike a normal car with a rack and pinion suspension, when you enter a pit. You don't have that feeling inside this tank. Also at the speed that this tank is going, enemies are going to get scared and run away. This tank is a big one and the speed is also fast.

... tank tackles obstacle course, does rotations in place, does rotation with gun pointing in same direction etc. ...

Will translate the second video in a little while.

[Gaur]

ArmenT,
Thanks a lot for the translation. It is very much appreciated.

[ArmenT]

And now, translations for the second video .... (Excuses for some translation errors, but that interviewer chap interviewing Karthik later speaks a different dialect and very fast to boot).

Dinakar...thanks for posting the video link. This was one of the best TV shows on Arjun.

I have listed some of the interesting pieces I heard on the show. Awesome job by Kalaignar TV host, Kartick/Actor, DRDO professionals in explaining the features.

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-7JHOOf7oM&NR=1

Guy Explaining: .... the Schumacher of Israeli army, you know, like the race car driver.
K: Ok
GE: We been taking this tank on a 40 km run, in a circle. By then, this tank had already done 8500 km. Then he covered it (the 40 km run). And at that time, we had the hatch closed and I drove it with closed eyes, he drove it at 40 kmph. He said, "This tank is a desert ferrari. No other tank in the world can beat this tank."
K: Excellent, excellent, superb (clap clap)
GE: The credit goes to all our DRDO as well as our users.
K: Definitely
GE: Because of their feedback, we could do all these improvements.

K: I also saw the tank simulation. For all situations, whatever I saw sitting inside the tank, it was the same effect. What I saw sitting in there, I also saw sitting in here. To achieve this, and I also know about this because I've done my own research, it is no small matter, it's a good 65 years worth of development. Most importantly, when I was driving the tank, the fact that it was completely made in India, this is no small matter either. And our army people, just standing next to them is an honor. So I'm so proud to be here sir.

DRDO chap: To produce this episode, to be here with us, we're very proud. On behalf of Sivakumar sir and our organization, thank you for being our PRO (Public Relations Officer)

Karthik: Thank you for having me here, it is an honor.

-----------------

Interviewer: Saar, I've never had this wonderful driving experience, how do you feel about it?
K: What I liked the best... it doesn't feel like you're inside a tank. For such a big tank with so much speed and power, it feels like driving a Maruti car, it is that easy. Main thing is the suspension, they said no other tank has this suspension. Russian tanks don't have a hydro-pneumatic suspension like this. When you're sitting inside this, you don't feel any jerks (in the road). And they say it can hit 70kmph. And they say everyone will run when seeing this. When such a juggernaut comes rolling down the road, I get the feeling like a dinosaur in "Jurassic Park". And it is such a powerful tank. And regarding the handling, because of the auto transmission, even a 12 year old girl can drive it easily, I think. It was a wonderful feeling to drive it.
I: (hard to decipher the next question, guy was speaking a bit fast) Sir, if you look at defence matters, the head count seems to be decreasing, what are your thoughts? What do you have to say about it?
K: See when we came here today... What DRDO does, we learned about it. Many people do not know it even exists. So the fact that we have Defence Research and Development Organization in our country and that we have job opportunities within it. Instead of going abroad, the fact that they're giving good pay here as well, how many people know that. Now I've studied Engineering and even I did not know this. So this awareness is a primary reason and they've started giving opportunities to the private sector as well, and to know about these matters is very useful.
I: Do you know anyone who was a soldier(from school mate perhaps), do you know about their situation and such?
K: I had a friend, heard lots of stories about his father. All the difficulties that were faced in Kargil. They call it "frostbite". When I was in America, that was the first time I heard about frostbite. After it gets cold beyond a certain point, if a body gets exposed to it, the fingers get stuck. If you tap them then the fingers will just fall off. And you don't even know that it fell off and you only realize that when you come back to normal temperatures. And frost bite is very common in Kargil. That someone is standing there, that an entire battalion is standing there in Kargil, fighting for us. Big matter, we cannot imagine it. And the many difficulties they faced, from the time of going to Kargil and time of coming back, they give their lives, it is no ordinary matter. And it didn't occur to me at that time to understand all this. What they really face up there, I didn't really understand then. It is not an ordinary matter.
I: In your own eyes... how do you see (Theevar Vatham? not sure here)
K: Well, umm about the thever vatham, one thing they're doing wrong, well, they're sort of fighting for a cause, but they're making things violent. If they're not violent, then there's nothing wrong with them. However, it is wrong to take other people's lives. well anyone can fight for a cause, but that isn't an excuse for violence.
I: Well, in our Tamil movies, Kamal (Hassan), Rajinikanth, and your own brother, Surya, they've all played soldiers. Do you have a desire to play such a role?
K: Well, if there is a suitable script for me, I'll definitely do it. It is a honor that not everyone gets. In foreign countries, they make a lot of war movies, but now they've started to make them here as well. (mentions some local guy doing one recently).. and everyone is now doing such roles. If such a role comes along, mind you, I've only done 5 movies so far and so I'll definitely do such a role.
I: In your school days, did you do NCC or some such?
K: Well, I was in the Boy Scouts and we did march pasts too. I've set up a camp, been to training camps, got a few awards. So I was in scouts, but not NCC. Scouts, NCC and the like are not the real military though, they're a bit of a softer version.
I: And a final question, if someone wants to become a brave person, what is your answer?
K: Nothing wrong in being brave, everyone can become brave.
I: Thank you. On behalf of Kalaignar TV, thank you for spending so much time with us
K: Most importantly, thank you for giving this opportunity to come here, to meet DRDO, our army, our jawans, scientists. To learn about their achievements is an honor. That I can proudly say our nation is equal to anybody, to give me that opportunity, thank you very much.

[ParGha]

guys, i think Berwal has a valid point.. the whole philosophy of russian stuff is low maintainence even if it is not cutting edge.

Not always true, it depends on the systems. T-80s, for example, are definitely not low maintenance systems.