Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Feb 2011 07:51

Guys, Searching on Guttenberg I stumbled on the below web site.

Hindusim Book shelf

The link contains the first complete English translation of Mahabharat by Kisari Mohan Ganguli along with the translation of Vedenta by Ramanuj and Sankaracharya.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Feb 2011 22:37

A beautiful presnetation of entire 'existence' from Kaivalyopanishad.

Sa eva maaya parimohitatmaa,
sariramaasthaya karoti sarvam
Striyanna panadi vichitra bhogai:,
sa eva jagrat paritriptimeti ||

That atmaan thru consciousness takes the ego form, by wearing this body, and performs all kinds of actions.This Jeeva in conscious state feeling content with pleasures derived from eating, drinking, women etc.,

Swapne sa jeeva: sukhaduhkha bhokta
swamayayaa kalpita jeeva loke
sushuptikaale sakale vileene
tamo abhibhuta: sukharupameti ||

The same aatman in dream-state experiencing pleasures and sorrows in dreams created thru his own consciousness. And in deep-sleep he remains in blissful state "unconsciously".

Punascha janmantara karma yogat
sa eva jeeva: swapiti prabuddha:
puratraye kreedati yascha
jeeva: tatastu jaatam sakalam vichitram ||
Aadharamanandam akhandabodham
yasmin layam yaati puratrayam cha ||

The jeeva is aweakened from that deep sleep by the karma results he earned thru many lives. Thus this atman is living thru these three states of consciousness (awake, dream, and unconscious deep-sleep). The entire world is created (perceived) from this Atman. That Atman is the cause of these three states of being. Again all these three states of being are dissolved in him.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 Feb 2011 08:20

Trolling google unkil I stumbled on to the Audio book of the rigveda along with the Sanskrit PDF of the rig Veda.

Looking at my bookmarks it seems that this has not been posted before.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Feb 2011 08:36

Thank you Pratyushji!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Feb 2011 10:51

Blog post Understanding Ausuras

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 11 Feb 2011 22:11

What is the source of this mantra?

Gangecha, Yamunechaiva, Godavari, Saraswati
Narmade, Sindhu, Kavery
Jalesmin Sannidhim Kuru....

I thought of including Brahmaputra to the list in a moment of inspiration. May sound arrogant on my part

, but this is one mantra which geographically and politically describes entire Bharatvarsha. Since the mantra invokes all the holy rivers for clensing of the soul, in a sense it is a statement that the soul belongs to the rivers and the lands they flow through. So may it become:

Gangecha, Yamunechaiva, Godavari, Saraswati
Narmade, Sindhu, Brahmaputra, Kavery
Jalesmin Sannidhim Kuru....

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 11 Feb 2011 23:59

The traditional name for Brahmaputra river is "Lohityaa"..

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 13 Feb 2011 02:39

around the world then the Hindus can stake a claim first the Palestinian city of Ramallah, as Hindus were all over the world, spreading the civilization much before other religions originated. The name Ramallah has its origins in two words, Ram or Rama is an Aramaic word meaning 'a high place' and Allah is the Arabic word for God, making Ramallah meaning 'God's hill’. The tradition says Ramallah is derived from the Hebrew Ramah which means ‘high’. Ramallah might have been founded around 900,000 years ago by the Hindus in the name of Rama. Allah in Hindu mythology stands for Durga. Ramallah or Ram-Allah or Ram-God was established well before Holy Torah, or Holy Bible, or Holy Koran, etc.were written. Ramallah’s twin-city, al- Bireh, itself was first built around 3500 BC as per historical records. Hindus, even though considered idol worshippers by not only Muslims, but also by Christians and Jews, were the First People of the book; Hindus wrote the Puranas, Veda (4 volumes), Upanishads (many volumes), Bhagavat Gita etc.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Feb 2011 21:29

Bji, Atri, Jambudvipa, I would like to start a new project on the "Evolution of Indian Strategic Thought". I would like to start the collection of refs in vedas, Epics, Puranas, writings of Chankaya, Thiruvalluvar, Panchatantra, Hitopodesa, Badde Neeti and so on to modern times. I would also like to see if there are any Marathi accounts that describe their views. I know of Akkana and his brother Madanna whose point of view is recorded in Dutch comapny records.

I think saying Chanakya is the alpha and omega of Indian thinking on this restricts the vision and throws out a lot of other important sources.

Eventually you all can wrote a book.

Will start the thread in Strat forum so there is visibility.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 15 Feb 2011 02:44

That would be great! We can start right from the RigVeda.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 15 Feb 2011 03:11

I am compiling the matter for the Deracination thread.. Was going to go Dharma-artha-kaama-moksha.. Have compliled matter for Kaama and moksha, and now going through Artha.. that matter can be used in initiative mentioned by Ramanaji..

they (abrahmics) have suppressed the matter related to artha, rather smartly.. have to go through indirect pointers. If we look at traditional wisdom, Chanakya is a non-entity.. His Koota-yuddha is not very fondly talked about in Mahabharata and other treatises. Chanakya (and Ashoka) were popularised by (or allowed to be popular) in british regime.. Same goes for elevation of "manusmriti" to higher pedastle..

BTW, does anybody has access to a text known as "Shukra Niti"?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Feb 2011 03:15

OK guys started in Strat Forum:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1030584

I would like to start with the first mention of kingdoms.
Why were kings created? then go on to the Rajya Dharma

Throw in the Ramayana and Mahabharat guidance to kings and so on.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 15 Feb 2011 03:16

The first pointer is Purusha sukta..

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 15 Feb 2011 03:28

A very good idea Ramana garu.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Feb 2011 03:37

Please post relevant quotes from Thiruvalluvar.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 15 Feb 2011 03:38

BTW, does anybody has access to a text known as "Shukra Niti"?

http://ia700200.us.archive.org/8/items/ ... pegoog.pdf

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Feb 2011 10:35

Blog on

Jambudwipa or Ancient India

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 15 Feb 2011 13:14

Atri wrote:BTW, does anybody has access to a text known as "Shukra Niti"?

I do. Sanskrit with Hindi translations.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 15 Feb 2011 15:25

abhischekcc wrote:
Atri wrote:BTW, does anybody has access to a text known as "Shukra Niti"?
I do. Sanskrit with Hindi translations.

Can you please give it to me somehow, saar.. will be of great help.. its easier to understand sanskrit while it is translated in any of the Indian languages.. is it possible to scan it, if its in hard copy..

@Shushupti ji,

Thanks very much..

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 15 Feb 2011 16:49

Atri, I'll try to contact the publisher, and see if they have some copies in store. Maybe they can mail it directly to you. Or, I'll buy and send to you. Let me see.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 15 Feb 2011 16:52

Hope you are located in India

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 15 Feb 2011 17:03

Yes, India is fine.. Which city is the publisher located? Which city are you located? II have my folks disperesed around nooks and corners of jambudvipa.. If they are in your's OR publisher's vicinity, then I can ask them to collect the book from you and mail it to me, OR else directly mail..

please drop mail at atri(dot)brf on jeemale system for the above queries, if they are comfortable..

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 15 Feb 2011 22:20

I am in NCR. Let me dig up the book and look up the publisher. Mailing you now.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Feb 2011 22:12

looking back at key decisions in Mahabharat war, Duryodhana should ahve another archer take out Sokhandi behind whom Arjuna was hiding. As long as Bhisma was there the Panadavas wouldnt win and would have led to negotiations. And for those who sayits adharmic, so was arjuna hiding behind Sikhandi and

negi · Post by **negi** » 17 Feb 2011 22:56

^ How is it adharmic to take down the one who has sided with the adharmi ?

niran · Post by **niran** » 19 Feb 2011 10:36

ramana wrote:looking back at key decisions in Mahabharat war, Duryodhana should ahve another archer take out Sokhandi behind whom Arjuna was hiding. As long as Bhisma was there the Panadavas wouldnt win and would have led to negotiations. And for those who sayits adharmic, so was arjuna hiding behind Sikhandi and

Duryodhan did just that, early morning when he was informed of the "Sikahandi plan" he ordered
all Maha rathi to stand gaurd and prevent Arjun to come face to face with Bhisma Aswathama(The Guru's Son)along with one Asura(forgot his name) were entrusted to kill Sikhandi but it all failed
due to the fact Bhisma himself wanted an out for himself and he rushed to face Arjun.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2011 11:10

LINK

Oh and talking about King Bhoja, another Sanskrit verse that my grandparents, absolutely obsessed with yogurt, liked to recite (second line of the verse) when a particularly fine batch of yogurt made an appearance at the table.

Bhojanam dehi raajendra, ghrta soopa samanvitam
mahisham cha saratchandra chandrika dhavalam dadhi

Two poor poets learned that King Bhoja gave money to poets, so they struggled to write a poem. They came up with the first line with great difficulty, and then begged Kalidasa for the second line. Bhoja didn't care for the first line, but was quite impressed with the second line so he did give them some money.

O king, give us food, with dal and ghee
And thick yogurt, white as the flowing light of the full moon on an autumn night.

Ed to add: the last line is more specific than that translation; it is yogurt made from buffalo (mahisham) milk, as white as the moonlight in Sharat ritu.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 22 Feb 2011 12:03

It is Sharad ritu. but used as a samaas with chandrika pronounced as halant 't' ?

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 22 Feb 2011 19:24

What is the oldest surviving, or extant, copy of the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, any of the Puranas or the epics?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 22 Feb 2011 19:50

looking back at key decisions in Mahabharat war, Duryodhana should ahve another archer take out Sokhandi behind whom Arjuna was hiding

Shikhandi was a "Mahrathi" and hence was not a piece of cake. Bhishma considered Shikhandi woman on the account of him being Amba in his previous birth.

Amba (Mahabharata)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amba_(fictional_character)

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Feb 2011 20:08

negi wrote:^ How is it adharmic to take down the one who has sided with the adharmi ?

There were rules of engagement....and Krishna was the "baap" of Chanakiya to put it mildly. Isn't it dharma to fight for one's State and King?
Mahabharatam gives gazillion opportunities to discuss dharmic and adharmic actions and thoughts. Truly a master piece.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 22 Feb 2011 20:16

Varoon Shekhar wrote:What is the oldest surviving, or extant, copy of the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, any of the Puranas or the epics?

http://www.namami.org/

The oldest surviving desi manuscript on rigved is preserved in Bhandarkar (BORI) institute Pune which may be 600 years old is written on birch tree bark = bhojpatra.

The oldest surviving manuscript on bhojpatra is written in brahmi on buddhism found in some caves in some god forsaken chinese region. Local police was chasing a goonda who was hiding in a cave and eventually this police party stepped on these script. this is the oldest surviving script on any indic knowledge is 1900+ years old. There are many old brahmi seals available depicting ramayan but they are clay tablets.

Birch tree bark is degradable and do not survive for long undless preserved very carefully.

Moreover, vedic and upanishadic knowledge was preserved orally till late 14th century. correct me if i am wrong.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 22 Feb 2011 20:27

Brahmi Seals Sanskrit Text
http://papyri.tripod.com/buddhist/introsealings.html

There is one pakistani guy in Dubai who sales brahmi seals, buddha stucco and other items generally found in takshashila (taxila) region, swat valley and other regions of afghanistan. available at throw away prices.

He has a shop but forgot the address and name. Guys residing in dubai may find out.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 22 Feb 2011 20:39

Murugan wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:What is the oldest surviving, or extant, copy of the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, any of the Puranas or the epics?
<snip>

The oldest surviving manuscript on bhojpatra is written in brahmi on buddhism found in some caves in some god forsaken chinese region. Local police was chasing a goonda who was hiding in a cave and eventually this police party stepped on these script. this is the oldest surviving script on any indic knowledge is 1900+ years old. There are many old brahmi seals available depicting ramayan but they are clay tablets.
..

The place was khotan.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 22 Feb 2011 20:49

Majority of work on buddhism is in Sanskrit Says Dr. Satkari Mukhopadhyay, in an interview:

http://www.ibiblio.org/gautam/budd0004.htm

He also speaks about 33 gods. (33 koti devata) which became 33 crores!!

G.C.: Will you throw some light on the pantheon angles and rituals thereof?

S.M.: In Rig Veda we find that there were 33 gods which later it is said become the 33 crores! Since the earliest days of Buddhist tradition gods like Indra, Varuna, Ishana,Yama etc were accepted in Buddhism. In Hinduism Vishnu, Saraswati, Shiva, Maha Shakti came up. In Buddhism down the ages similar things happened as pantheons with its incorportated philosophy changed its iconographic appearnce but remained almost the same. On the score of rituals and Mantras Hinduism and Buddhism have similar records and perhaps some of the rituals were borrowed by Hinduism from the Buddhist traditions.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 22 Feb 2011 20:53

The Myth of 33 crore devata

Concept of 33 Koti DEVATA…

Posted by: pzychod on: December 10, 2010

* In: Uncategorized
* Comment!

Vande Mataram..

“Koti” means “Types” in sanskrit. {also koti means order, e.g., uccha koti, nich koti = higher order, lower order respectively}

therefore 33 koti means 33 types .

It is not 33 crores as many of us thought.

they are as below.

8 Vasus (Dhara Dhruva , soma , ah , anila , anala , pratyusha , Prabhasa . {Mahabharat, 1/66/18})

11 Rudra (Hara Bahurupa , trayambaka , Aparajita , Vrushakapi , shambhu , kapardi , mrugavyaadha , sharva , Kapali {Harivansha 13/51-52})

12 Aditya (Dhata , mitra aryama , shakra , varuna , ansha , bhava, vivaswana , poosha savitaa, tvashtaa. {Mahabharat 1/65/15-16})

2 of Ashvinikumar.

In simple way you can take it as :

8 Vasus (Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky, Moon, Sun, Stars/ Planets)

10 Life Forces in our body or Prana (Prana, Apana, Vyana, Udana, Samaana, Naga, Kurma, Kukala, Devadatta) and 1 Soul called Rudra,

12 Aditya or months of year

1 Vidyut or Electromagnetic force that is of tremendous use to us

1 Yajna or constant noble selfless deeds done by humans

Its a imagination how beautiful god can be and accordingly we have different idols of god & goddesses as per their deeds..

33 Koti Devta--
Yasya Trayastrinshad Devaa Ange Sarve Samaahitaa,
Skamma Tam Bruhi Katamah Swideva Sah. ~(Atharva Veda 10-7-13)

== With God’s influence, these thirty-three (supporting devta) sustain the world.

They are: 8-Vasu, 11-Rudra, and 12-Aaditya, 1-Indra and 1-Prajaapati.

8 Vasus are: Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Ether, Moon, Sun, and Star. They are called Vasus, because they are abode of all that lives, moves or exists.

11 Rudras: The ten Pranas (Praana, Apaana, Vyaana, Samaana, Udaana, Naag, Kurma, Krikal, Devadutta and Dhananjaya) i.e. nervauric forces which live in the human body. The eleventh is the human soul. These are called ‘Rudras’ because when they desert the body, it becomes dead and the relations of the deceased, consequently, begin to weep. Rudra means one who makes a person to weep.

12 Adityaas ---the twelve months of a year called Adityaas, they cause the lapse of the term of existence of each object or being.

1 Indra which is also known as the (all-pervading) electricity, as it is productive of great force.

1 Prajaapati , also called the “Yajna” because it benefits mankind by the purification of air, water, rain and vegetables and because it aids the development of various arts, and in it the honor is accorded to the learned and the wise.

Read Atharvaved 10-7-13 here

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscrip ... sp#av10007

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 23 Feb 2011 03:41

Thanks Murugan et al, for that info. I read that there were at least 50,00 ancient manuscripts waiting to be translated.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Feb 2011 03:58

In the Vishnu Dharmottara Stotra the proposrtins for depicting the gods are given. How many gods are described there? Should be 33 if above is right. What do the stapathis (scupltors) say about the number?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Feb 2011 05:28

नैतिक और अनैतिक आकांक्षाएँ

जहाँ एक ओर नैतिक भावनाओं का उन्नयन मन को अत्यन्त सबल एवं उत्पादक बना देता है और ऐसे आनन्द, सन्तोष से भर देता है जिसकी तुलना में कामवासना सरीखी पशुप्रवत्तियों का तुष्टिकरण तुच्छ्तम ही प्रतीत हो सकता है ।

वहीं दूसरी ओर अनैतिक आकांक्षाएँ और कुछ नहीं नैतिक भावनाओं के उत्थान के अभाव में बनी रहने वाली अंधकार भरी रिक्तता ही है ।

जैसे धूप जहाँ नहीं पहुँचती वहाँ सीलन रहती है, प्रकाश जहाँ नहीं होता वहाँ अँधेरा छाया रहता है ।

फ्राइड सरीखे मनोविज्ञानी इसी अभाव को मनुष्य की प्रवृत्ति मान बैठे हैं ।

वे यह नहीं सोच सके कि उनके निष्कर्ष मानवी महानता को पतनोन्मुख बनाने का कितना घातक परिणाम प्रस्तुत करेंगे ।

- पं. श्रीराम शर्मा आचार्य

वांग्मय ५३ - धर्म तत्त्व का दर्शन और मर्म - पृष्ठ - २.२२

Effect of moral and immoral intentions

On analyzing the effects of moral and immoral intentions on our being, we observe that stirring up of moral, virtuous, honorable intentions in our psyche uplifts us and makes us more productive. It has an extremely positive and stimulating impact on our being. Where as even an attempt to pacify a lustful intention seems to be most vile to us.

Immoral desires are nothing but the gloomy, bleak void created by an absence of moral values.

Much like the musty, damp areas where sunlight never reaches, or the dark places where light does not shine.

Psychologists such as Freud, claim this human limitation, his uncontrollable sway under the impulse of immoral desires, vile intentions to be his one true nature, his true personality.

What they fail to realize is that conclusions like these, presented by them, will produce a grave outcome of severely undermining human greatness, glory and dignity.

- Pt. Shriram Sharma Acharya

From the Complete Works of

Pandit Shriram Sharma Acharya Vol. 53

(Essence of Dharma and Its Significance)

page 2.22

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Feb 2011 05:31

From Temples: Icons and Rituals, by Prof. S.K.Ramachandra Rao {pages 10 & 11}

But the folk religion that continued in the Vedic period and has survived till today, accepted in practice, whatever the theoretical reservations, as many as 330,00,003 gods! The staggering figure may indeed be a fanciful extension of the Vedic number 33, which is credited with some validity in the Satapatha brahamana and other early scriptural texts. The thirty-three gods were earth and the heaven, twelve aspected solar energies (adityas), eleven frightening forces of the atmospheres (rudras) and eight deities of the directions (vasus). They were obviously symbolic.

There is another explanation of the number which accommodates eleven deities in each of the three spheres (the earth, the mid-region or atmosphere, and the heavenly vault). It should be noted that the thirty three divinities gradually got condensed into three, each representing a sphere (tri-dasa), even in the Vedic literature: as, for instance, the conception of the triad, Agni (Fire on earth), Vayu (Wind in mid-region) and Surya (Sun in the heavenly vault). This provided the background for the evolution of the triad of the popular religion in later India, Brahma, Siva and Vishnu.[/b[