West Asia News and Discussions

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Purush
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Purush »

As expected, Paki thugs are among those beating up unarmed protestors.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... le1910989/
Fearing an Egyptian-style inferno, Bahrain’s security forces have moved aggressively to douse a political brush fire that burned for several days in the capital. At least five people were killed and hundreds injured when the protest camp set up in Manama’s Pearl Square was levelled early Thursday morning.
It was a familiar pattern: In each of the past four decades, whenever people – usually Shia Muslim Bahrainis – protested too vehemently for political or economic reform, the government summoned the same forces.

And the forces have been specially chosen for the task. They are almost entirely made up of foreign nationals, mostly Sunni Muslims from Pakistan; often with contempt for Shiites whom they regard as heretics. The forces’ officers hail from Bahrain, Saudi Arabia or Jordan.

“It’s not like a domestic police force or army,” said Barry Rubin, director of the Global Research in International Affairs Centre in Herzliya, Israel. “These guys are paid to beat people such as these protesters and to do it without feeling.”

When you’re an embattled minority ruler such as the Emir, Sheik Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa, “it’s what you do to stay in power,” Mr. Rubin said.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

^^ this article is heavy propaganda. firstly, they are not all paki's, there are many Indians, yemeni's, syrian police officers. They are in the immigration services too, in case the author bothered to travel there.
It has been this way since the shia attempted a coup while utilising the shia members of the security service.

Many Protestors were armed with knives and swords. The west is going out agressively on a propaganda war, India has been there before.
See the injuries faced by the policemen. Also, first people said they attacked when many were sleeping, the videos released put that to rest. There is a heavy propaganda war.

There are protestors there who have genuine grievances, but there are troublemakers hell bent on causing serious problems.
What Bahrain is going through right now is very similar to what we have been through in India.
The west is pouring fuel on the fire via the media.

-------------------------------
Kmkraoind, Bahrain is different you see, most are educated and all have jobs. The unemployment is 3.6%. Funny thing is the shia's ALL have most of the jobs in various ministries and the private sector.
Any attempt at revolution will be put down hard, as Bahrain will call in the saudi forces. There would be a civil war before any sort of revolution.

The migrants can influence what will happen, they are a threat to the arab local population. Read Dhahi Khalifan's (dubai police chief) recent comments.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Purush »

shyamd wrote:^^ this article is heavy propaganda. firstly, they are not all paki's, there are many Indians, yemeni's, syrian police officers. T
From what I read, the article is not about the Bahraini Police force, but another security force whose sole aim is the beating up of protestors.

Are there Indians in this group?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Basically, they are mistaking the police force for "mercenaries" because the police force pre-dominantly non Bahraini. Yes there are Indians in serving in the police force and did take on some of the protestors.

Well you can see the videos released and see that they weren't there "just to beat up the protestors". But to remove protestors who illegally blocked roads and occuppying a roundabout. They were given plenty of warnings to leave. The police force used tear gas to disperse protestors.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Murugan »

is it possible that these protest thingy spread to all any of the emirates of UAE?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

No chance. Maybe Ras Al Khaima or Dubai. But doubt anywhere else.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Aditya_V »

Murugan wrote:is it possible that these protest thingy spread to all any of the emirates of UAE?
UAE Nationals are a Pidliy 700K, forming 15% of the total population, the rest being expats who would not protest. Its also easy to keep nationals happy with a lot of free dols, so I would say very little chance.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SwamyG »

kmkraoind wrote:Question to ShyamD, et al and other gurus. There are less migrants in Egypt. But Baharian has more than 50% migrants. What will be the composition of gatherings, what will be the impact of migrants in smooth running of organizations (both foreground/back offices), how the migrants react to the uprising/suppression, what will be the critical mass to make a successful revolution in case of Bahrain. Because the populace structure is quite different in Egypt and in Arabian peninsula. TIA.
Very good angle to investigate. Yesterday I was looking at Bahrain's population. 80% are Muslims, 9% are Christians and 9.8% others (lot of them in this group are Hindus). And the Indian population is about 290k in a total population of 1.2Million - that is almost 25%.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SwamyG »

This wiki page gives an idea of the Indian Diaspora, please check out the West Asia section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-reside ... ian_Origin
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Premen Addy's op-ed in Pioneer.

Riddle of the Sphinx
EDITS | Friday, February 18, 2011 |

Riddle of the Sphinx
February 18, 2011 9:03:38 PM

Premen Addy

The possible future trials and tribulations that await the people of Egypt cannot be minimised. For the moment, it’s celebration time.

It was time for Mr Hosni Mubarak to go. His stubborn attempts to still the waves of massive public protest eventually gave way to tired resignation, as the surging tide of people’s power brought Egypt’s economic life to a grinding halt. American nervousness mounted by the hour and the European Union, obeying the movements of the conductor’s baton in Washington, DC, kept faith with the score. Like all theatre it required audiences across the world to maintain a willing suspension of disbelief.

The first act ended somewhat abruptly with Mr Mubarak downing the tools of office and departing for his Red Sea retreat at Sharm el-Sheikh. The Mubaraks had done well in their years of preferment and power; the family vaults reportedly richer by anything between $40 billion and $70 billion, according to insiders in international graft and bribery and all manner of perquisites. The 82-year-old fallen star has enough in his coffers to bid for the death mask of the boy Pharaoh Tutankhamun, facts being more exotic than fiction.

Whether the Egyptian uprising distills into true revolution is in the gift of time. True power has long been confined to the military, whose ascendancy was signalled by the Nasserite coup of 1952, which overthrew the sybarite King Farouk, who was content thereafter to sun his royal substance on Capri. The Higher Council of the Egyptian military has promised free and unfettered elections, the suspension of the present Constitution and an eventual return to civilian rule.

But there’s many a slip betwixt cup and lip, hence we must wait patiently upon events. For the present, Mr Mubarak’s Emergency law, which underpinned his police state, remains firmly in place. The burden of Egypt’s Mamluk and Ottoman past; of secretive, self-perpetuating cliques, supreme practioners of the black arts of intrigue and manipulation and unaccountable authority, will not easily be lifted.

In one of the great pieces of 19th century historical writing — “The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte” — Karl Marx said: “Men make their own history, but not of their own free will; not under circumstances they themselves have chosen but under the given and inherited circumstances with which they are confronted. The traditions of the dead generations weigh like a nightmare on the minds of the living. And, just when they appear to be engaged in the revolutionary transformation of themselves and their surroundings, in the creation of something that does not yet exist, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they timidly conjure up the spirits of the past to help them borrow their names, slogans and costumes so as to stage the new world-historical scene in this venerable disguise and borrowed language ... the beginner who has learned a new language always retranslates it into his mother tongue; he can only be said to have appropriated the spirit of the new language and to be able to express himself in it freely when he can manipulate it without reference to the old, and when he forgets his original language while using the new one.”

So much for possible future pitfalls and tribulations. The present, meanwhile, is taking care of itself. Facebookand Twitter, social networking websites, have come into their own against censorship and officially enjoined silence. This facilitated the Egyptian upheaval but its role should not become a metaphor for Oriental hyperbole. It is a small minority in the country that owns computers and mobile phones; nevertheless the word spread through a variety of channels and young and old were duly energised. The exhilaration of the first moments of freedom after the long silence of dictatorship are moments to be treasured; it is rebirth and renewal.

Here in Britain the media is in overdrive. Now that the old order in Egypt is laid to rest the boons of liberty and individual choice are proclaimed with joyous intensity from every newspaper rooftop, including Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation, in whose Augean Stables the co-habiting Times and Sun trim the day’s news. :mrgreen:

For 30 dark years, Mr Mubarak enjoyed star status on the pages of most broadsheets and tabloids; a Muslim ‘moderate’, no less, as valuable as gold dust or cut diamonds to Pentagon and US State Department aficionados and kindred folk in the British Foreign Office down the road. The more things change the more they remain the same, is an old Gallic saying.

But the occasional mea culpa can be read and heard. Christopher Meyer, Britain’s former Ambassador in Washington, is a refreshingly forthright voice on radio and television and the printed page. Writing in the Tory Daily Mail, he made this honest admission: “But the harsh truth is that we in the West know very little of what makes this huge and complex country (Egypt) tick. For example, we do not appear to know much about what is happening in Egypt outside Cairo, Alexandria, Suez and the larger cities... Most observers agree the Army is key. But this triggers further questions... So, the uncertainties could not be greater or the stakes higher — for Egyptians, the Middle East and Egypt’s friends in the West. If ever there was a moment to weigh words carefully, it has been this week... So, what is to be done? This is what the Russian Foreign Minister, Mr Sergei Lavrov, is quoted as saying on his London Embassy’s website: Russia wants to see a prosperous, stable and democratic Egypt, but the solution lies in the hands of Egyptian politicians and the Egyptian people.”

Having commended these words. Mr Meyer, remembering its Russian origin, turned sour. Britain, he prclaimed loftily, needed no lessons “from (Prime Minister) Putin’s authoritarian Russia.” You can’t win always.

Surveying the scene in Egypt and its neighbourhood, and the shenanigans in Pakistan over an imprisoned American citizen facing murder charges but claiming diplomatic immunity, reminds me of someone who, having witnessed a tragedy, whispers “There for the grace of god go I.” At such moments my admiration for Jawaharlal Nehru and his daughter Mrs Indira Gandhi, like VS Naipaul’s, is sky-bound. They kept India free and sovereign, eschewing the short-cuts that would have reduced their country to a liveried banana republic or a coolie state. Let us count our blessings.

-- The visual that appears with this article is a poster desgined and hosted by mariopiperni.com to mark the Lotus Revolution in Egypt.
To me Mrs. G walking after the election results in 1977 were the supreme test of democracy in India.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by rsingh »

Heard El Bardai mentioning "India" on BBC radio. Could not follow up due to tunnel. What was that about?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Thousands clashing in Kuwait for greater citizen power/reforms. Now you iunderstand why King Abdullah was soo angry at Obama for letting Mubarak go down.
Now Oil prices are going to go higher with Kuwait's unrest, there were protests also in Iraq, in kurdistan too.

Off the record, Maliki is cancelling buying F-16's and using the money to pay for a food program.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by hnair »

It will be great if the churning will cause Indian migrants to get some political say in a constitutional way. India will soon have the most affluent muslim population amongst the Ummah and the middle-east nations would want to acknowledge that at some point, what with the west moving away from hydrocarbons in a determined way.

(Bahrain has Indians in very influential positions. Probably the highest in Gulf. Bahrain is mainly into bauxite and not dependent on oil. And natives already get first preference for jobs, which makes one conclude that these disturbances are outside supported and sustained)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Bahrain has always welcome Indians. You have destabilisers who are Iranian trained. And then you have ordinary people who just want political reform.

Just 40 minutes ago, youth were tearing down the pictures of the King, PM and Crown Prince. Elders shouted at the youth to stop and the boys obeyed.

Indians must understand what the government is going through, they are facing a major western backed propaganda war. We have faced this before.

Even our Foreign secretary was telling people to chill the hell out - Indians in Bahrain are fine and safe.

I can say that if GoI plays its cards right and shows some support here, we may reap some dividends here.

The talk internally is that you have the BDF guys saying lets use force to contain the protestors. You have King and Crown Prince on one side saying do not use force. The King has told CP to open up dialogue - meaning there will be some sort of reform, maybe economic in nature - who knows. But the King wants to settle this now. Saudi is ready to step in if extra force is needed.

-----------------
Rumour is that Washington has been told to disregard the 6 month deadline for elections in Egypt (i.e. its just talk).

And Surprise Surprise....
Egyptians Say Military Discourages an Open Economy
The Egyptian military defends the country, but it also runs day care centers and beach resorts. Its divisions make television sets, jeeps, washing machines, wooden furniture and olive oil, as well as bottled water under a brand reportedly named after a general’s daughter, Safi.

From this vast web of businesses, the military pays no taxes, employs conscripted labor, buys public land on favorable terms and discloses nothing to Parliament or the public.

Since the ouster last week of President Hosni Mubarak, of course, the military also runs the government. And some scholars, economists and business groups say it has already begun taking steps to protect the privileges of its gated economy, discouraging changes that some argue are crucial if Egypt is to emerge as a more stable, prosperous country.

Protecting its businesses from scrutiny and accountability is a red line the military will draw,” said Robert Springborg, an expert on Egypt’s military at the Naval Postgraduate School. “And that means there can be no meaningful civilian oversight.”

Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, the minister of defense and military production who now leads the council of officers ruling Egypt, has been a strong advocate of government control of prices and production. He has consistently opposed steps to open up the economy, according to diplomatic cables made public by WikiLeaks.

And already there are signs that the military is purging from the cabinet and ruling party advocates of market-oriented economic changes, like selling off state-owned companies and reducing barriers to trade.

As the military began to take over, the government pushed out figures reviled for reaping excessive personal profits from the sell-off of public properties, most notably Mr. Mubarak’s younger son, Gamal, and his friend the steel magnate Ahmed Ezz. On Thursday, an Egyptian prosecutor ordered that Mr. Ezz be detained pending trial for corruption, along with two businessmen in the old cabinet — former Tourism Minister Zuhair Garana and former Housing Minister Ahmed el-Maghrabi — as well as former Interior Minister Habib el-Adli.

But the military-led government also struck at advocates of economic openness, including the former finance minister Youssef Boutros-Ghali, who was forced from his job, and the former trade minister Rachid Mohamed Rachid, whose assets were frozen under allegations of corruption. Both are highly regarded internationally and had not been previously accused of corruption.

“That mystified everybody,” said Hisham A. Fahmy, chief executive of the American Chamber of Commerce in Egypt.

In an interview, Mr. Rachid said he felt like a scapegoat. “People who have been supporting liberal reforms or an open economy are being caught up in the anticorruption campaign,” he said. “My case is one of them.”

“Now there are a lot of voices from the past talking about nationalization — ‘Why do we need a private sector?’ ” he added. He declined to talk specifically about the military but said that in general within the government, “some people have tried to say that the cause of the revolution was simply economic reform.”

Though some Western analysts have guessed that the military’s empire makes up as much as a third of Egypt’s economy, Mr. Rachid said it was in fact less than 10 percent. But economists say that because of its vested interests they still worry that the military will impede the continuation of the transition from the state-dominated economy established under President Gamal Abdel Nasser to a more open and efficient free market that advanced under Mr. Mubarak.

Moreover, the military’s power to guide policy is, at the moment, unchecked. The military has invited no civilian input into the transitional government, and it has enjoyed such a surge in prestige since it helped usher out Mr. Mubarak that almost no one in the opposition is criticizing it.

“We trust them,” said Walid Rachid, a member of the April 6 Youth Movement that helped set off the revolt. “Because of the army our revolution has become safe.”

Some of the young revolutionaries at the vanguard of the revolt identify themselves as leftists or socialists. And the idea of liberalizing the economy was thrown into disrepute because of the corrupt way that the Mubarak government carried out privatization, bestowing fortunes on a small circle around the ruling party while leaving most Egyptians struggling against grinding poverty and rampant inflation.

“People think that liberalization creates corruption,” said Abdel Fattah el-Gibaly, director of economic research at Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies. “I think we will go back, not exactly to socialism, but maybe halfway.”

And the Egyptian military, said Mr. Springborg of the Naval Postgraduate School, is happy to go along. “The military is like the matador with the red cape attracting the bull of resentment against the corruption of the old regime,” he said, “and they are playing it very successfully.”

Gen. Fathy el-Sady, a spokesman for the Ministry of Defense Production, declined to comment, saying the minister in charge was tied up dealing with strikes at military-run companies.

The military has used its leverage in times of crises to thwart free market reforms before, most notably during the 1977 bread riots set off after President Anwar el-Sadat cut subsidies for food prices to move toward a free market. The military agreed to quell the unrest only after extracting a promise from Mr. Sadat that he would reinstate the subsidies, said Michael Wahid Hanna, who studies Egypt’s military at the Century Foundation in Washington.

Field Marshal Tantawi, the defense minister, and other senior officers were all commissioned before Mr. Sadat switched Egypt’s allegiance to the West in 1979. They trained in the former Soviet Union, where sprawling business empires under military control were not uncommon.

“In the cabinet, where he still wields significant influence, Tantawi has opposed both economic and political reforms that he perceives as eroding central government power,” the American ambassador at the time, Francis J. Ricciardone Jr., wrote in one 2008 cable released by WikiLeaks.

“On economic reform, Tantawi believes that Egypt’s economic reform plan fosters social instability by lessening G.O.E. controls over prices and production,” the ambassador added, referring to the government of Egypt and calling Field Marshal Tantawi “aging and change-resistant.”

In a cable later that year describing the tensions pitting the military against the businessmen around Gamal Mubarak, the new ambassador, Margaret Scobey, wrote: “The military views the G.O.E.’s privatization efforts as a threat to its economic position, and therefore generally opposes economic reforms. We see the military’s role in the economy as a force that generally stifles free market reform by increasing direct government involvement in the markets.”

Mr. Mubarak, scholars and Western diplomats say, allowed the military to expand its empire, ensuring the allegiance of its officers and quieting discontent by dismantling other state-owned businesses. And with so many businesses under their control, the military’s top officials have doled out chief executive jobs and weekends at military-owned resorts to cultivate loyalty. Though deprivation and inequality were major complaints leading to the uprising, economists credit the Mubarak government with expanding the economy and increasing its growth rate by loosening state controls and attracting foreign investment.

But the Mubarak government carried out reforms from the top, without changing burdensome regulations that made it hard for small businesses to compete, and the benefits flowed mainly to a few. Most Egyptians felt, if anything, more impoverished, watching new Mercedeses and BMWs zip by donkey carts hauling garbage through the streets.

“The Mubarak government privatized basically by offering state properties to their cronies,” said Ragui Assaad, an economist who studies Egypt at the University of Minnesota.

Paul Sullivan, an expert on Egypt and its military at Georgetown University, said the military leaders were farsighted enough to see that stability would now require continued economic as well as political liberalization. But he also acknowledged the possibility of a return to the past. “There is a witch hunt for corruption, and there is a risk that the economy might go back to the days of Nasser,” the apex of centralized state control, he said.
Last edited by shyamd on 19 Feb 2011 02:15, edited 1 time in total.
SwamyG
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SwamyG »

shyamd wrote:I can say that if GoI plays its cards right and shows some support here, we may reap some dividends here.
That is why I suggested, if some agint's could have sneaked in Mahatma Gandhi's foto on play cards in Egypt, it would have been nice onlee. During tough times, people might reach out and the use of soft power by a country is an art. I say distribute free Bollywood DVDs onlee.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SwamyG »

Here is my conspiracy theory behind all this. The gist is very simple. West wants to sell more products, the Corporations are struggling. Amirkhans and UQueens have no money. Same case in West Asia, but then the Monarcy and Dictator have loads of money. One can only sell so many airplanes and hotels to these guys. Aam admi has to buy phone, comb, toothpaste, TV, Car ityadi. But they are poor too. So we need wealth transfer from the rich to the poor, to create a middle class so that when the time comes, they can be wiped out.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

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WikiLeaks: US wanted 'derogatory' information on Bahrain king's sons
The US State Department secretly asked its diplomats in Bahrain to report any "derogatory" information about two of the King's sons and evidence of "rivalry" with senior members of the ruling royal family, leaked documents show.

The office of Hillary Clinton, the Secretary of State, wanted to know if Prince Nasir bin Hamad al Khalifa or Prince Khalid bin Hamad al Khalifa took drugs, drank alcohol or "caused problems" within the monarchy.
Embassy staff in the Bahraini capital of Manama were also asked whether the princes had any friends among the country's Shia Muslim majority, which is behind this week's protests against the minority rule of the Sunni regime.
Prince Nasir, 23, who is serving in the Bahrain Defence Force, and Prince Khalid, 21, are King Hamad's sons by his second wife and there have been fears in the region that hardliners from neighbouring countries might try to influence them.
In October 2009 a diplomatic cable from Mrs Clinton's office, marked "secret", described the princes as "important emerging targets of leadership analysis".

As well as asking for basic biographical details on each prince, including their date of birth, ability to speak English and educational background, the cable, obtained by WikiLeaks and seen by the Daily Telegraph, asked about possible tensions with the King's heir apparent, Crown Prince Salman.

"Is there a rivalry between (either) Prince and Crown Prince Salman?" Mrs Clinton's staff asked. "If so, what is the nature of this rivalry? Has it caused problems within the family?"
King Hamad, 61, has seven sons and five daughters by his four wives, including three sons who are older than Sandhurst-trained Prince Nasir.
The cable also asked: "Does (either prince) have any Shia friends? What are his views on how the ruling family should address the Shia majority in Bahrain?"
The communiqué ends: "Is there any derogatory information for either prince?
Does either prince drink alcohol? Does either one use drugs?"
Exactly why the US wants such information is not explained.
Any rift within the Bahraini royal family on the issue of constitutional change would be crucial to the US, as Bahrain – home to the US 5th Fleet – is of vital strategic importance within the Middle East.
Prince Nasser bin Hamad is married to sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid's daughter - they have one daughter, who was born only last year. Nasser is a nice chap from what people who have met him tell me.

These guys are too smart for any family split to happen, but you never know. Prince Nasser was definitely developed by the King to become the next crown prince. He is seen in Washington meeting senior military officials and also conducts meetings with ambassadors/ministers of certain countries.

------------------------------
SwamyG wrote:
shyamd wrote:I can say that if GoI plays its cards right and shows some support here, we may reap some dividends here.
That is why I suggested, if some agint's could have sneaked in Mahatma Gandhi's foto on play cards in Egypt, it would have been nice onlee. During tough times, people might reach out and the use of soft power by a country is an art. I say distribute free Bollywood DVDs onlee.
If only R&AW was active. But our internal security priorities are a big enough problem to be dealing with. We don't want to cause any trouble anyway.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Egypt fallout: Oman ruler postpones India trip
With stalwarts of the Arab world falling to high-decibel democracy protests, Oman's ruler Sultan Qaboos bin Said has postponed a visit to India this week. Sultan Qaboos was to have meetings with PM Manmohan Singh early this week and was also scheduled to vacation for a while in Jodhpur, sources said. Both events were cancelled.

The visit was happening at a time when Egypt was in turmoil and Egyptian leader Hosni Mubarak was on the verge of quitting office. Protests were already breaking out in Yemen, Libya looked like it could come under the influence while in Khartoum, disgruntled Sudanese took to the streets as well as the Algerians.

In the Gulf, Bahrain, an emirate next door to Oman, is erupting. While Bahrain has a unique problem of a Shia population under a Sunni ruler, the prospect of popular unrest was a big factor in the Sultan's calculations. In nearby Kuwait, for instance, the ruler has distributed over $3,500 to every citizen.

Oman is probably India's most important Gulf partner. Indian companies, according to officials, are setting up manufacturing facilities at a free trade zone being developed in the port town of Sohar, about 200 km from capital Muscat.
Last edited by shyamd on 19 Feb 2011 02:45, edited 1 time in total.
SwamyG
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SwamyG »

shyamd wrote: If only R&AW was active. But our internal security priorities are a big enough problem to be dealing with. We don't want to cause any trouble anyway.
Why close the doors, keep all the options open. If say a drug peddler starts roaming the streets, we cannot say we will only educate the self and family. The family might be strong, but what about the rest in the locality? So from a purely selfish interest too, one has to strive to keep the drug peddler outside the street. A very similar strategy is used by some people fighting the EJs. While Indians battle the EJs in desh, some NRIs are taking the battle straight to the Churches :-)

If our internal security has big problems, then we ought to get more money and resources to handle both internal and external. It is budget/policy matter. I assume brighter folks, than me, are sitting at the helm and are doing the right thing.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

^^ Yes, but the damage to relations are enormous. Dilli aren't ready to face this. We are peeace loving onleee. We respect rules of laaaw.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

West Asia and India - A historic link

Link
The residents of Ruwaydah, a historic site in northern Qatar believed to be inhabited from the medieval to the early modern period, were quite wealthy and led a good quality of life.
“The pottery excavated so far is generally good quality, an indication that people there were having a good life,” archaeological excavations team leader Dr Andrew Petersen told Gulf Times.
The red granite mortarium uncovered at Ruwaydah
Petersen, the director of research Islamic archaeology from the School of Archaeology, History and Anthropology at the University of Wales Trinity Saint David, is heading a team of 14 members.
One of the world’s largest pearl banks used to be less than 10km off the coastal site of Ruwaydah making it possible that pearl harvesting was the basis of the economy, and the flint tools recovered could be connected with the processing of pearl oysters.
A very interesting thing the archaeological experts found out this year is that at some point, the residents of Ruwaydah had thickened the walls of the fort, the most visible feature of the site. “They probably were quite wealthy and we know that people were going around robbing each other in this area and the residents decided to have more protection,” explained Dr Petersen.

A Persian fritware bowl base
Given that there is no evidence so far of any fighting or warfare at Ruwaydah, protecting some precious things seems to be the main motive behind the thickening of the walls.
During the first season of excavations (January to March 2009), the team discovered lots of mother of pearl pieces, and a weight used to weigh very small objects, most probably pearls.
“The other interesting thing is that we found an almost complete mortarium made from granite and used for grinding, it could again be medieval, probably from Iran,” he said.
“A few coins have also been found, but they have not been looked at yet. We are waiting to get a lot.
“I think we have Indian pottery as well at Ruwaydah, which is very interesting, but this is not again identified, and if confirmed it could probably be from Gujarat,” Dr Petersen stated while clarifying that a lot of research has to be done.
The excavations team has located a mosque near the fort. They found this year that the mosque is built on an earlier mosque which has a slightly different orientation.
“One of the walls from the early mosque still survives. The different orientation makes me think the mosque was a long time earlier and then they corrected the orientation,” he said.
A ‘palace’ being excavated within the fort, also has high floor levels than the surrounding ground, again hinting that it was built on top of an earlier building.
“We have not been able to excavate that yet, but we know we have got structures from an earlier period, and we think these might be probably medieval, which will be the first structures to have been identified from this period in Qatar,” Dr Petersen revealed.
Another interesting aspect about Ruwaydah is that the only historical reference to the occupation of the site in the 18th century comes more than a century later from Lorimer J G (1908, Gazetteer of the Persian Gulf, ‘Oman and Central Arabia,’ Government Printing Press, Calcutta, India) who states that the inhabitants moved south to Al Zubarah. Given the size of the site and the evidence for its occupation in the 17th and 18th centuries, the silence of the historical sources is surprising, according to a paper published about the first season of excavations and presented at the seminar for Arabian Studies in London in July 2009.
“It is of course possible that the site was known by another name in the 18th century, or that for some reason it did not attract the attention of Europeans or others who documented the coast at the time,” the paper concludes.
------------------
The perceived Iranian intelligence threat to Bahrain. Straight from Horses mouth.

This is from my post on Iranian intel activity in the GCC.
Bahrain- Now Bahrain, Kuwait are clubbed together because they had supported Iraq during the iran/iraq war.
Bahrain has a significant shi'ite presence and Iran had begun actively formenting trouble. The IRGC, MoIS had picked individuals to come to Qom for religious education and then sent to training camps where they will learn basic intel skills, civil disobediance movements., arms training etc.
In the 80's at the height of the war, iran was pumping in arms and storing them in locations around Bahrain.
Even to this day, building construction work in Manama usually ends up finding buried cache's of professionally packed weapons.

So the iranians organise themselves in to cells and communicate via Sms mainly. They have found clerics with arms training. Iran is also utilises 3rd country nationals,
Mainly lebanese, but they also use tamil's, paki's and others but mainly hezbollah guys.

In the event of a war, iran will use these people to launch a civil disobedience movement and send everyone to the US embassy and to the HQ of the 5th fleet in manama.
The iranians have continued to send arms. The last arms shipment intercepted was in 2005, they are not sure if they have missed any.
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Post by brihaspati »

The entire Gulf area had a strong reported presence of Indians in the pre-Islamic phase of the Persian empire. In fact one of the excuses given for Qasim's or early Caliph's attacks on Sindh was that (apart from excuses of accusations of piracy) Sindhi regime had helped out/was in alliance with the Persians. The Nirun rich-merchant Buddhists who collaborated with Qasim appear to be part of a trading network and settlements that stretched along the eastern coast of the Gulf into its mouth, as well as on the small islands off shore. Socotra was a prominent "Indian" base.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Suppiah »

Guys, some interesting news is coming into focus as a result of Bahraini unrest - Bahraini Sunni regime has been issuing citizenship to thousands of Pakbarian Wahabi jehadi fanatics as a tool to alter the demographic balance there. Obviously the regime 'trusts' the Pakbarian animals because they must surely have been trained in Wahabi fanaticism and barbaric animalism in the madrasahs run by the Saudi Royal family which underwrites the Bahraini regime. In addition to that they must surely have a lot of practice running pogroms against local Shia's, Ahmediyas and minorities like Hindus that are still left alive.

Has anyone living there in Bahrain comes across / heard of vast number of such cases? If so what sort of foreign policy options does it open up for GOI vis-a-vis Iran/KSA etc.? Should GOI support Iran in the event of armed insurgency in ME?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

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^^ I don't blame you. But you are buying into the propaganda. Bahrain is one of the most open societies in the ME, thats why it brings in so many Saudi's every weekend. Please read into the facts, not the media right now, Bahrain is facing a major propaganda attack from the west.

I've answered some of your comments above.

-----------------------------------
Israeli security chief celebrates Stuxnet cyber attack
A showreel played at a retirement party for the head of the Israeli Defence Forces has strengthened claims the country's security forces were responsible for a cyber attack on the Iranian nuclear programme.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad visits the Natanz Uranium Enrichment Facility Photo: AP
By Christopher Williams, Technology Correspondent 7:00AM GMT 16 Feb 2011
4 Comments
The video of Lieutenant General Gabi Ashkenazi's operational successes included references to Stuxnet, a computer virus that disrupted the Natanz nuclear enrichment site last year, Ha'aretz reported.
Although Israel has not officially accepted responsibility for the Stuxnet attack, evidence of its role has been mounting since it was first discovered last July. The virus, unprecedented in its sophistication, was designed to infiltrate the control systems at Natanz and make hidden, damaging adjustments to vital centrifuges.
Attributing the source of cyber attacks in notoriously difficult, but security researchers say factors including complexity of the operation, which would have required human sources inside the Iranian nuclear programme, point strongly to the Israeli security forces. It has also been reported by The New York Times that a special facility was set up with American cooperation in the Israeli desert to test the weapon.
Immediately after the section on Stuxnet, the video tribute to Lt Gen Ashkenazi included a message from Meir Dagan, who was head of Israel's secret intelligence service Mossad during virtually all of Lt Gen Ashkenazi's time in charge of the IDF.
The video otherwise reportedly included only publicly acknowledged operations, apart from references to a bombing raid on a Syrian nuclear site in 2007. It has since been established that too was a clandestine Israeli attack.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

Folks, I am hearing Benghazi in Libya has been liberated. This is big news. Gaddafi has mercenaries who are attacking people. 150 people have died. There is only 1 brigade left in Benghazi in eastern province of libya. This is big folks.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Venkarl »

:eek: :eek: I thought 84 people died....in 2 hours its 150 dead...wow...Mr.Voluptuous is on prowl
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Post by shyamd »

This is from my source. CNN says 84. Let's see. Media is tightly controlled, all journo's are constantly with security personell.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by rsingh »

shyamd wrote:Folks, I am hearing Benghazi in Libya has been liberated. This is big news. Gaddafi has mercenaries who are attacking people. 150 people have died. There is only 1 brigade left in Benghazi in eastern province of libya. This is big folks.
Please elaborate. I can not confirm this from any other sources. Thanks
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Post by brihaspati »

^^Probably right about Bengazhi. Problem is that the internal security/communications all are seen by Libyans as being run by Gaddafi's sons. "Liberation" might be too strong a word, but fighting appears to be ongoing in the east. Gunfire is being reported in the city centre as well as from suburbs. About 30 buried today in Hawari cemetery. Most reported to be between 13/14 and 40 years. All phones/gas/electricity cut in Bengazhi today, but the city centre appears to be holding. The protesters appear to be claiming that they have captured aassassins sent by Khamis.

Mobile phone company owned by Saif El Islam apparently sent around warnings not to cross the four Red Lines : Gaddafi, Islam, territorial integrity, and internal security. But in Tripoli, the Ghot Shaal and Gurji area is claimed to be active now. Troops moving in but not confirmed.
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Post by shyamd »

Not sure about the specifics. Was watching France 24 just now. Member of the opposition was on TV explaining 60-70% of country are in revolt. Stats are that there are 50,000 regular soldiers and 43,000 militia for a population of around 9 million. I was hearing reports earlier today that people were damaging military runways to stop transport planes from coming in. Then the militia who consist of mercenaries from Niger and Chad who can only speak French took 150soldiers hostage and said if they don't get a clear route out of the city they would behead them.

Khamis Brigade (Khamis is Gaddafi's son), his camp considering mostly of mercenaries has fallen to the protestors at a heavy price. The guy on TV was saying that it fell at a heavy price, possibly 100's have died - now this is just in the East. In the west there were protests last night in the 3rd largest city. There are confirmations of protests now in Tripoli. There are currently reports of skirmishes there according to France 24.

The guy on TV says the entire East of the country is now under the control of the people. Party HQ's are being burnt down.

Folks now you understand why just last week King Abdullah was soo angry at Obama for letting Mubarak fall. I hope Indians are safe at this point.

Ramanaji, any nightwatch insight on this?

Also as an aside: A royal family member told me today that there is lot of room for increased cooperation with India. He also said among the royals, India is viewed very positively.

India may have a military exercise with another GCC country. Don't know when exactly but the chances will increase after the upcoming exercises with Saudi and Oman in March. But the military has to make the recommendation to the senior leadership - so I guess within the forseeable future.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by brihaspati »

India cannot appear to be on the side of the regimes. This will be suicide. Foreign policy has to be thought of on the basis of short term and longer term future. The kings are on the way out. India should support formally along the position that it supports liberalized democratic representation and regimes which however support modernization and currently accepted humanitarian state concepts. So there should be a conditional support for these "revolutions". If India is seen as a hesitant supporter for liberal reforms that does not bode well fro the future.

Moreover we should expect the Chinese to be tempted to come out in support of the military-aristocracy combines. That should be another aspect that India must use against China and its role.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by SwamyG »

As per a tweet: http://twitter.com/SamDaTruth
BREAKING: Al-Fadhil Brigade building in #Benghazi has fallen. This is the last base and the ppl are in control of Benghazi.
Be it Sushma Swaraj during the Yatra or the West Asia crisis, twitter and facebook have become the fastest news sources.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by shyamd »

^^ Which is why they want to monitor it.

My blog post on the current situation.
Arab Unrest - Quick Update
Egypt

Anyone who read my previous post about Washington's message to the Egyptian leadership would have been surprised at how things did turn out.

Our prediction is that the military may not hold elections in 6 months time, contrary to what the junta are saying in Public. The military prefers to maintain control of the economy as it remains heavily invested. Initial reports appear that arrests of the previous ministers who were pro-economic liberalization have taken place. There appears to be a socialist slant towards comments being made by the military leaders.

The Egyptian military wants to protect its interests and therefore we believe that it is unlikely that the junta will go after Mubarak's money as this may show the level of involvement of the Egyptian military as well as several high profile individuals from around the world (including Israeli's).

We also think that if there is democracy to be established, there would be 2 possible models:

Turkish: Islamists and liberals allied with a strong military. This is what the people of Egypt desire.

Moroccan/Pakistani: Free parliament, elections, but ultimate control of security issues is directly with King/Kayani/Egyptian Army.

The decision on direction may take a long time to play out (possibly greater than 6 months). Its clear to us that the military do not want to see a Turkish situation where the senior generals have been placed under arrest for attempts at coup. Therefore, the Egyptian military is interested in protecting its political power and obtain immunity from any arrests, but retain the power to intervene politically when it feels the need to do so (much like Pakistan).

Bahrain



Well many would have seen the protests that are currently taking place in Bahrain.

I think that the Bahrain situation is being fanned by the western media. There is a lot of anti-government propaganda by well respected journalists such as Nick Kristof from the NY Times. There are currently petitions being circulated against this journalist.

We at Eye on the Middle East believe that the Bahrain monarchy WILL NOT FALL! This is based largely on comments made by the mainstream opposition (Al Wefaq and others) parties. There are some calls to remove the Al Khalifa dynasty but this is not widely echoed by protestors, in fact, most anti government protestors just want economic reform more than the political reform.

The Crown Prince has appeared on CNN earlier today, which is a great idea to explain to the world at large the views of the government of Bahrain. See Link



Why were the BDF (Bahrain Defense Force) deployed? From what we see, the BDF was deployed to protect national infrastructure such as oil infrastructure and parts of the city as a show of force. We have heard that the Saudi's had asked Bahrain if they require any extra forces, however HM King Hamad had decided not to use force against the protestors.

The BDF were deployed because the Bahrain NSA had most likely received intelligence that Iranian backed movements had decided now is their time to launch their civil disobedience movement which would want to damage infrastructure.

For many years, the Bahraini security services have watched individuals travel to Qom (Iran) for religious training and then onwards for training with IRGC & Ministry of Intelligence Service on basic intelligence gathering skills, Civil disobedience movements and arms training. We have learned via sources that the Iran backed elements were split into 2 groups, people that wanted to act now and others who preferred to use these tactics only in the event of a major conflict with Iran.

Lets not confuse these Iran backed elements with normal protestors who were out there to ask for political and economic reforms. The vast majority of protestors want this, but sadly the trouble makers attempted to take advantage of the situation.



Another major reason to deploy the BDF was to prevent any clashes breaking out between pro and anti government protestors. The seriousness of the incidents could have sparked a civil war in Bahrain. Thankfully, none of this happened.


There have been more trade union strikes that have been called for Sunday 19th and Monday 20th February.

It does appear many opposition parties have agreed to dialogue with HH Crown Prince Salman earlier today and the removal of the BDF from the streets of Manama was seen as a positive step. The Crown Prince has attempted to defuse the situation and hinted at an economic package being delivered to all Bahraini citizens. So, the editor believes that this situation will be resolved relatively soon.

Libya

Meanwhile, early reports suggest Libya will be the next domino to fall. Reports are streaming through mainstream media that the Eastern part of Libya (Bengazi in particular) is now completely under the control of the people! It does appear that many have lost their lives.

Oman

Sultan Qaboos has cancelled his month long visit to India due to the prevailing situation in the Middle East.

It is important to note that Indian and Omani forces are due to conduct a major military exercise next month.
--------------------
Al Jazira: Confirmed Gaddafis Nephew now Dead in benghazi by grenade attacks in the birka barracks

European sources confirmed that a C130 plane from Austria will land in Malta heading towards Libya with medical supplies
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Looks like fall of dictators. A new Arab dawn is coming. Hope it spread to fake Araps too!

Finally political reforms kept under cold freeze during Cold War are coming.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Johann »

Tripoli is still reportedly firmly in the regime's hands, with regime supporters outnumbering protesters.

If it stays that way Ghadhaffi will not hesitate to use maximum force against Benghazi. I mean Hama-style.
ramana wrote:Johann and ShyamD, Good time to ask this question:

My reading of obscure texts says that Yemen is the key to undestanding Saudi Arabia. And it will lead to unravelling. What do they mean and whats the antiquity of Yemen and its realtionship to the Arabian peninsula?
Thanks,

ramana
Ramana,

If you took away Mecca-Medina, and most of the oil, Saudi Arabia would look a lot like Yemen.

A highly tribal, highly conservative society with an exploding population and very little to offer its people.

But of course we can't do that so Saudi's problems are not quite the same.

In some ways the regime's internal political problems look more like Iran's; well to do young people who hate the cultural policing, less privileged young people who hate the corruption and nepotism that they feel denies them real prospects, and upper middle class young men who dislike both, and minorities sick of crackdowns and everyday discrimination.

The Saudis are also very concerned about what is going on in Bahrain - historically unrest in Bahrain produces echoes among the Shia of eastern Saudi (al-Hasa province, which produces most of the oil)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Maybe Egypt was an opening move to change the wells of power to reset the balance. Egypt was to encourage the Bahrainis and thus the KSA to get with the program?
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Post by Johann »

Ramana,

One of the *only* things that W. Bush *personally* pushed (i.e. this was not coming from Rumsfeld or Cheney) in M.E. policy after 9/11 was democratisation.

He put a lot of effort in to pressuring US allies in the region, esp. Egypt, the Palestinian Authority and Bahrain to have meaningful elections, empower parliament, etc.

Some of that pressure eased off when Hamas (Palestinian MB) swept the 2005-06 Palestinian elections, but he never gave it up entirely. Bush was publicly calling for the release of political prisoners like Ayman Nour in 2007.

Ironically Obama has been much less proactive than Bush on this count, but I do think that encouragement through the 2000s did play some small part in what has taken place, but its only one out of many factors like economic conditions, Al-Jazeera's transformative role in the last decade, the average age of the dictators, new social media, etc.

Interestingly enough the West Bank has NOT seen major protest despite the publication of the Palestine Papers, resentment over Fatah/Palestinian Authority corruption etc.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Sometimes things are before there time. Hence they dont work. lets see what happens. if Libya changes we have a phenomenon. Other wise its early spring.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ShauryaT »

Johann wrote:Ramana,

One of the *only* things that W. Bush *personally* pushed (i.e. this was not coming from Rumsfeld or Cheney) in M.E. policy after 9/11 was democratisation.

He put a lot of effort in to pressuring US allies in the region, esp. Egypt, the Palestinian Authority and Bahrain to have meaningful elections, empower parliament, etc.
Also, coupled with a deep seated idea of revenge against the Saudis, is how I understand Bush's actions. No, not just his push for democracy, but what I term as controlled chaos. In order to understand, the actions of the Bush government, one has to understand Kissinger's central message, in his monthly meetings with Bush. His message was "Stick it up to the Arabs".

Unrest Encircles Saudis, Stoking Sense of Unease
The Saudis tend to see any threat to the established order in the region as a gain for their nemesis Iran, and its allies Syria and Hezbollah. They have grown increasingly worried that the Obama administration is drifting away from this perspective and supporting movements for change whose outcome cannot be guaranteed. Those worries were heightened by the crisis in Egypt, where the Saudis felt that Mr. Mubarak should have been allowed to stay on and make a more “dignified” exit, Saudi officials say.
Once the pendulum shifts enough towards the Shias, then expect some focus back on the Sunnis. It is fun to watch America fiddle with the region from an Indian perspective.

It is early spring.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by brihaspati »

Libya has crossed over into the civil-war stage. The army has not played the role as in Egypt, which means that the army is not confident enough. My own sources reported in the morning that part of the arms and ammunitions if not the army has now fallen into protester hands. The army is not obviously consolidated.

Gaddafi is well connected with the financial networks of EU, so EU may be forced to play dumb, hamstrung and neutral.

I will go ahead and suggest that external military help is already being sought, and will be provided, but the Libyan army practically does not exist [deliberately kept weak out of paranoid distrust] and what remains may actually go over to the "people". So this may mean a prolonged struggle, and further resistance by Gaddafi's sons will simply mean a complete destruction of Gaddafi's networks within Libya at least.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Samudragupta »

Civil war seems to be in full swing in the Eastern Libya....
http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2011/02 ... ak-bd.html

Bangladeshi Mercheneries????Who are these people?
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