China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

maganlal · Post by **maganlal** » 18 Feb 2011 21:41

NRao wrote:
strikernr wrote:Not trying to sound pessimistic, but after looking at the videos of J-10 and that of the LCA from Aero India, seems like LCA has no chance against the J-10, at least in dogfight. J-10 is displaying high AoA even in low speed (wow!)and I remember the LCA turns were really wide in comparison to this.
We DO need some comic relief at times.

BTW, the LCA was designed to take on the F-16.

But, wait, I thought the J-17 shot down a F-22.

So, why are we talking about J-10 vs. LCA?

lol neither I'm Pakistani nor I'm Chinese. Pardon my ignorance in aviation. I just pointed what I saw. Perhaps it's not a concern in reality when LCA is pitted against the J-10 or the JF-17 (Of course I vouch for LCA to be superior). I was just looking for clarification. Thanks Shiv.

oh and I never meant this to be a J-10 vs LCA argument.

username changed from strikenr to maganlal,
you can request an username of your choice as long as it is human sounding and not taken,
Rahul.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 18 Feb 2011 21:45

Mike wrote:...
A hypersonic missile forms a layer of ions (simply speaking, charged particles) on its frontal surface due to aerodynamic heating. Such layer is inpenetrable to EM waves, including radio waves. In order for it to receive updates, the missile (or warhead, whatever it is) has to slow down to Mach 4 or below...

Basics question: Does this ion layer(plasma?) obstruct long wavelength EM ?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Feb 2011 21:46

strikernr,

That is OK - victim of circumstances. We have had too many make the same argument - for eons now.

maganlal · Post by **maganlal** » 18 Feb 2011 21:59

Marten wrote:^ Sure you ain't one of them. Don't forget these nosy admins will check your email ID and attempt to repair your good name. Good luck there.

Sure. They will discover my first name "Gagan" as indicative in my email id

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Feb 2011 22:11

my dear, if you delve a little deeper you would find out that LCA has not yet opened up anywhere near its full envelope and even what it has is comparable to what the J-10 does. if you delve even deeper physics wise, you'll see that the LCA is designed to simply chew out its contemporaries in aerial combat and I say that as a very conservative person.

kit · Post by **kit** » 18 Feb 2011 22:30

Clone wars still going on,i see

.The old empire is waiting,biding its time.

Sidhu · Post by **Sidhu** » 18 Feb 2011 22:34

Here is me wishing someday we would see the J-10 and the J-20 at AeroIndia 2013. Not pass seeking Chinese journlists

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Feb 2011 23:03

shiv wrote:A Chinese video featuring Tu-16 Badger clone refueller, Fennec, Dauphin and Super Frelon helo clones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNHvoROOD-w

I think it will be unfair to call them clones.

They are license produced:
Xian H-6: License built Tu-16.
Harbin Z-9: License built Dauphin
Z-8: some were bought, but I think the latest ones are all license produced.

Z-11 is the most interesting though. It is projected that it is the first indigenously produced helicopter, when it can be clearly related to Ecureuil a variant of which is the Fennec (and hence the resemblance).

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Feb 2011 06:16

Sidhu wrote:Here is me wishing someday we would see the J-10 and the J-20 at AeroIndia 2013. Not pass seeking Chinese journlists

The future Aero India should remain a business show where we show off our tech strengths and try and sell them and not help advertise those who might copy and undercut. As long as we keep our selfish interests at the core of our dealings with every nation I have no objection to anyone coming. The Iranians have some interesting designs and the Koreans, Argentina and Japan have display-worth tech. The Czech and Brazilians and have already appeared in Aero India. I did not see anything from Poland - but I suspect Spain an Italy would have been present via multinationals.

This is OT for this thread.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » 19 Feb 2011 08:09

abhik wrote:
Mike wrote:...
A hypersonic missile forms a layer of ions (simply speaking, charged particles) on its frontal surface due to aerodynamic heating. Such layer is inpenetrable to EM waves, including radio waves. In order for it to receive updates, the missile (or warhead, whatever it is) has to slow down to Mach 4 or below...
Basics question: Does this ion layer(plasma?) obstruct long wavelength EM ?

It is indeed a complex subject and depends on a lot of parameters, such as density, temperature of the plasma and the wavelength in question.

In short, based on my limited understanding and some wiki help (you are welcome to look up), plasma either interacts strongly with the EM wave, or reflects it. For longer wavelength, it is simply like a reflective metal surface

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Feb 2011 17:57

what do we know about this program?

Yet, in 2008 the Department of Defense (DOD) estimated the DH-10 to have a range of over 2,000 kilometers (km), and pointed out that the PLA was developing both air and ground launched variants.2 The latest 2009 DOD estimates state that by “April 2008 the PLA had 150-350 DH-10 ground-launched cruise missiles” with a range of a range of over 1,500 km.3 It is not known why the DOD changed its estimates concerning the range of the DH-10 in 2009 and failed to make any estimates concerning the number of air-launched DH-10s in the PLA inventory.

The Assassin Under the Radar

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 20 Feb 2011 00:04

ShauryaT wrote:what do we know about this program?
Yet, in 2008 the Department of Defense (DOD) estimated the DH-10 to have a range of over 2,000 kilometers (km), and pointed out that the PLA was developing both air and ground launched variants.2 The latest 2009 DOD estimates state that by “April 2008 the PLA had 150-350 DH-10 ground-launched cruise missiles” with a range of a range of over 1,500 km.3 It is not known why the DOD changed its estimates concerning the range of the DH-10 in 2009 and failed to make any estimates concerning the number of air-launched DH-10s in the PLA inventory.
The Assassin Under the Radar

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 21 Feb 2011 13:09

WZ-10 in HD

http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 119267.jpg
http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 030543.jpg
http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 030590.jpg
http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 119819.jpg
http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 119941.jpg

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Feb 2011 16:35

ashi wrote:WZ-10 in HD

http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 030590.jpg

Interesting angle

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 21 Feb 2011 17:34

ashi wrote:WZ-10 in HD

http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 119941.jpg

looks like a dolphin from bottom

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 21 Feb 2011 17:35

^^Quite a few interesting changes...
Compare
Old
With
New

Visible differences:
1. Engine inlets
2. Engine exhausts
3. Tail landing gear fairing
4. EO sensor fit - the older example seemed to have an Apache-style TADS/PNVS system, with separate optics for WSO and Pilot. The newer one has a single EO ball, similar to the AH-1Z/LCH.
5. New example seems to have a variant of SRO-2 'Odd Rods' IFF
6. Do those yellow 'anchor' stickers indicate a maritime role?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Feb 2011 19:11

Jaeger wrote:^^Quite a few interesting changes...
Compare
Old
With
New

Visible differences:
1. Engine inlets
2. Engine exhausts
3. Tail landing gear fairing
4. EO sensor fit - the older example seemed to have an Apache-style TADS/PNVS system, with separate optics for WSO and Pilot. The newer one has a single EO ball, similar to the AH-1Z/LCH.
5. New example seems to have a variant of SRO-2 'Odd Rods' IFF
6. Do those yellow 'anchor' stickers indicate a maritime role?

You mean compare these two
New
http://www.hangkongnet.com/uploadfile/2 ... 119267.jpg
and
Old
http://img353.imageshack.us/f/wz10bd8.jpg

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 22 Feb 2011 12:03

Link changed, thanks Shiv.
What can I say, my eye just always ends up at the musharraff.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 24 Feb 2011 20:29

Sorry if it is already discussed but what is the real proof that China indeed has some ICBM programme at final stage which is reasonablly capable to tracking ( who will give updatges?) and hitting a fast moving AC in a big area like Pacific. All I could find is some news reports and fear mongaring. Once again sorry if it si discussed but it may be lot of hot air from Panda ass also.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Feb 2011 20:52

that ICBM is as potent as a Panda's Dong
that is to say
not very much

zlin · Post by **zlin** » 26 Feb 2011 10:09

J10B

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 26 Feb 2011 11:03

^^^
zlin nice photo. Why does this remind me of an American plane?

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 26 Feb 2011 11:16

Nice pics zlin. Thanks for sharing.

Looks wise the DSI makes it appear like a F-16 suffering from goitre.

Don · Post by **Don** » 26 Feb 2011 14:12

http://asiancorrespondent.com/49091/chi ... -evacuees/

China sends navy ship to protect Libya evacuees
By AP News Feb 25, 2011 5:00AM UTC
BEIJING (AP) — China has dispatched a navy ship to protect its citizens who are being evacuated from conflict-ridden Libya.

The defense ministry says the missile frigate Xuzhou has broken off from anti-piracy patrol duties in the Gulf of Aden and will protect ships carrying Chinese citizens from Libya to safety across the Mediterranean Sea.

The ship’s mission marks the first time China has sent a naval ship to take part in the evacuation of civilians in a humanitarian crisis, underscoring the navy’s growing ability to operate far from home ports and the increasing degrees to which the government is seeking to protect its citizens abroad.

The defense ministry reported the mission on its website Friday, a day after the order was issued.

kit · Post by **kit** » 26 Feb 2011 15:27

Christopher Sidor wrote:^^^
zlin nice photo. Why does this remind me of an American plane?

The chinese had substantial Israeli assistance by way of their Lavi program, designed to replace the F16s.Rumour has it that some of the prototypes stayed back in China after the Israelis cancelled the program at the american insistance.

kit · Post by **kit** » 26 Feb 2011 15:29

The true state of China's civil-military relations is, like so much else to do with the PLA, opaque at best, as Gates himself remarked in the wake of the J-20 incident. What is clear is that the Communist Party and the PLA are just two sides of the same governmental coin.

Yet as the PLA develops into one of the world's most powerful armed forces, its drift away from the civilian centre raises some obvious concerns.

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdw/j ... _1_n.shtml

Source : janes.com

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Feb 2011 15:31

zlin wrote:J10B

Apart from intakes what is the difference between the A and B versions?

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 26 Feb 2011 16:05

i never understood what made USA cancel such a close mil-tech relationship between china/israel.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 26 Feb 2011 17:41

Chinese and Pakistan Signal the Rest of the World

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 Feb 2011 18:30

VinodTK wrote:Chinese and Pakistan Signal the Rest of the World

Most Western think tanks seem to be rather way behind the curve. Japan are feeling the pain, so will the Aussies in due time.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Feb 2011 19:46

VinodTK wrote:Chinese and Pakistan Signal the Rest of the World

The language is pure Pakistani. Take it with a pinch of obsequious salt.

I bend and apply vaseline
You stick it in
"We" signal the world

OT for this forum

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 26 Feb 2011 22:11

tu142s are really good for patrolling in south china sea operating from port blair,il38 and p8 short fall in this category

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 27 Feb 2011 04:38

nits · Post by **nits** » 27 Feb 2011 14:41

^^If we start demonstrating each possible world relation in such form then what will be differnece between BR and other numerous insane forums in this web world... Again we all are mature enoufgh to ignore such things and one smiley alone can't become a disgrace for BR but at the same time we can also live without it... this is Just IMHO... Rest up to Mods if they seem it fit...

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 27 Feb 2011 15:23

^^^ I agree... no place for such smiley for BR....

Bihanga · Post by **Bihanga** » 27 Feb 2011 18:26

zlin wrote:J10B

Despite seeing F-16s for decades, it is so laughable to see, Chinese couldn't properly design J-10.

S_Prasad · Post by **S_Prasad** » 27 Feb 2011 19:57

Bihanga wrote:
zlin wrote:J10B

Despite seeing F-16s for decades, it is so laughable to see, Chinese couldn't properly design J-10.

It is a mix of F-16, IAI Lavi, and some fancy chinese canards.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 Feb 2011 21:43

Are looks that important ?

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 28 Feb 2011 12:59

VinodTK wrote:Chinese and Pakistan Signal the Rest of the World

This is one of the indicators that we face a single threat from Arunachal to Sindh. The same weapons will be used in Arunachal against india by PRC, the same weapons will be used against india in Sindh and Punjab.
There is a silver lining in this. IA/IN/IAF have to target a single source and class of weapons, i.e. Chinese, to meet this threat. This is unlike in 1980s where we faced two different class of weapons, one in the west (american+european) and a different set of weapons in the east (Chinese).

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 02 Mar 2011 18:14

China's Most Secret Weapon: The Messenger Pigeon

People's Liberation Army began training 10,000 pigeons as part of a push to build a "reserve pigeon army" that would provide support to the military's conventional communications infrastructure in the event that war rendered its plethora of modern technology unusable.
"These military pigeons will be primarily called upon to conduct special military missions between troops stationed at our land borders or ocean borders," air force military expert Chen Hong told China Central Television (CCTV) after the announcement. According to reports, the birds will be dispersed to communications bases across China's remote and mountainous southwestern region, particularly around the Himalayan foothills. The pigeons, flying at speeds of up to 120km per hour, will be trained to carry loads of up to 100 grams.

Today, the pigeons serve alongside 10,000 dogs in PLA service, guarding military warehouses, assisting special police forces and supporting border troops. Two thousand new dogs are reportedly signed up each year. Horses, once an important part of the military operations, have been falling out of fashion, as the PLA cavalry has played an increasingly peripheral role. There are said to be fewer than 1,000 cavalry soldiers left in the PLA, and those mostly take part in exhibitions or movie shoots.

In late January at a pigeon auction in Belgium an unnamed Chinese bidder broke the world record price for a single pigeon by paying $200,000 for a pedigree Belgian racing bird, considered the crème de la crème of the pigeon racing world.