West Asia News and Discussions

[Samudragupta]

Long time back it was mentioned in some thread in BRF about the tri-axis struggle of the Caliphate, the three axes of Af-pak,Southern Arabian peninsula and North Africa matches too much with the original tri axis, and now the presence of mercheneries,...Is Muhammad taking over under the guise of Marx?

[shyamd]

Army has intervened in favour of the people in Bengazi. It is now fully under the support of Al Saika Brigade and armed people. Confirmed.

[brihaspati]

Long time back it was mentioned in some thread in BRF about the tri-axis struggle of the Caliphate, the three axes of Af-pak,Southern Arabian peninsula and North Africa matches too much with the original tri axis, and now the presence of mercheneries,...Is Muhammad taking over under the guise of Marx?

Marxists form a small component of the spearhead - and in Islamist world this is the role theya re allowed to play. They are removed once the initial damages and objective are satisfied.

This time around, what is happening is a general move against existing authoritarian dynasties. Because the dynasties used Islam as their identity, authority and shield - attacks on the dynasties also imply a certain degree of shedding inhibitions over religion. Greater representative rights and a sense of empowerment is what they are after. They will think of religion afterwards. The outcome of that second phase of struggle is going to be in favour of the mullahs who had maintained their independence from official regimes.

Only in the cycle after that - when mullahs also prove their essential dictatorial nature - the phase now going on in Iran, can Marx have any chance of revenge. Muhammad cannot and never should be mistaken as even remotely Marxian. Their fundamental difference is in their attitude to history. Muhammad wants to fix and freeze history, while Marx sees history as dynamic to be manipulated and upgraded with each change in productive forces.

[Klaus]

The minority Berber community stands in confusion and probably might get completely eliminated in this violence unless they go underground and scrape out an existence to fight another day.

From an Arab perspective, early spring or not, it is a brilliant opportunity to clean the Berber slate once and for all.

[AKalam]

North African social evolution/revolution: While Mubarak lies in his death-bed in a coma after falling from grace, Ben Ali getting used to his life in exile, Gaddafi in Libya is fighting for his political perhaps his dear life as well, it seems that the land of Ibne Batuta and Ibne Khaldun, Maghreb, has finally erupted and woken up from its slumber after centuries of Ottoman yoke, the Anglo French era of Tin-pot kingdoms and their successor military backed dictators. Viva la Revolucion. Perhaps the Maghreb now will have the moral right to lead Africa in an African Union after all, and oversee its continent wide transformation, consolidation of democracy and empowerment of people. While a chapter in the history of that region and perhaps the world is coming to an end and a new era is emerging, it is perhaps not irrelevant to mention a few words about Gaddafi, a colorful son of Maghreb. This man transformed himself from a criminal terrorist despot to a visionary supporting the cause of African Union. Despite his antics about Nigeria, where he claimed that Nigeria would be better off divided along religious or ethnic lines (after the recent bouts of riots and violence in that country), which Nigerians did not appreciate I am sure, to his credit, he and his pet state funded visionaries did dabble into politics of such far flung places as the subcontinent, following the traditions of the more illustrious ones from the region:

http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=563364
http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=572003

In response to ramanaji's comment earlier about unemployed youth bulge and rising cost of living, no question these are the most important underlying factors, technology is just a catalyst. I was searching for world population trends and came across this:

http://www.futuretimeline.net/

It has fascinating insights into future. But going back to the topic of global population:

http://www.futuretimeline.net/subject/s ... aphics.htm

And more on the same topic:

http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/globa ... n_pop.html

In the animated picture Human Numbers Through Time, clicking 'next' shows the population numbers in nine stages, but clicking on 'play all' shows the numbers in animation mode one after another, clicking on 'See Graph' shows the actual graph which is similar to the graph shown in futuretimeline site.

Several observations:

- we are halfway in the middle of the steep population rising curve
- developed and underdeveloped countries population rose in tandem till 1950 and since decolonization, the underdeveloped population rise became decoupled with developed countries and went on the rising curve

My own pet theories on population rise:

- when standard of living is low, there is high child mortality and kids are part of social security at old age, so it pays to have more children
- when standard of living is higher, education becomes part of the equation and it becomes more expensive to have more children, social security from savings and pensions replace the need for depending on children's help

Histriography and population levels: It seems that many times people tend to forget that in the past, the world was not as populated as it is today and historical facts, which seems fantastic in todays standards, was more realistic in the past because of low population levels, which none of our current generation, including myself, can visualize or imagine, since we never in our living memory has ever seen such a world. The only exceptions being pre-1950 movies and older people who are still living. Just something that I thought is relevant when discussing history and to keep things in perspective.

Thoughts on types of colonialism: some in this site have mentioned "Islamist colonialism", Islamic incursion definitely created large scale disruptions in what I call the term "Historical Continuity" an important factor and social asset in determining competitive edge of societies (according my pet theories), but I believe there is qualitative difference between the Arabic Islamic expansion and later Turko-Mongol expansion from the euro colonization that took place within the subcontinent. Perhaps the precipitous drop of world share of GDP for the subcontinent since 1700 AD, shows the difference between the two "colonialism" if the former can be called one, rather than the more appropriate term migration:

http://www.visualizingeconomics.com/200 ... world-gdp/
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/08/hi ... world-gdp/

To be fair the Islamist incursion is probably the main cause of large scale disruptions and weakness in the body politic which the Euro colonizers took advantage of to gain a foothold.

Speaking of Euro colonization and expansion on the planet, it provided a stabilization of their population, but after the decolonization period, it seems to have contributed to the rise of non-euro population bulge of the planet. What is the cause then for this bulge, there are many factors:

- religious dogma specially for Muslims
- underdevelopment and bad governance is common for the entire non-euro population, perhaps largely a by product of euro colonization, as the disruption caused loss of competitiveness and their ability to adapt to new technologies faster

The irony is that this bulging non-euro population, as a by-product of Euro colonization, will inherit the planet as the majority bulk and will keep fighting for more share of the resources of the planet with every passing year, increasingly putting the euro population in the corner. To tame the population curve, IMHO, it is in everyones interest to bring people out of poverty and underdevelopment, as it is highly unlikely that there will be another Chinese like regime that will be able to impose birth control like they did in case of PRC. Here it is appropriate to mention that Marxism did have its good sides when it considered the global commons, its land, water and all resources belonging to all of humanity, to be shared among them, which seems much more humane and reasonable and easier to manage than the current destructive system we have in place, the capitalist nation state system. But Marxism's failure IMHO was that it:

- sought wholesale disruption of existing order and at times elimination of a valuable part of society, many a times a storehouse of accumulated wisdom and capital for generations, to create a new order
- had no room for continuation of existing world religion meme's and hunger for spirituality, which seems to be more like a basic biological and collective societal need
- had no good way to reward excellence and performance of the human genious at work, ultimately maximizing human creativity which IMHO is critical for the success of any society and humanity in general

Perhaps a new enlightened socialism will be found as a middle ground and a way forward that will take care of the above problems.

Just some random thoughts. Sorry if OT.

[shaardula]

these revolutions themselves seem to be organic and independent. those arabs in the trishanku swarga - of being educated and exposed to western ideas and yet subjected to middle eastern ideas of governance, have moved one after the other.

do these serial revolutions highlight a natural cohesiveness between the islamic nations? i dont think this is a case for a calipahte, but it does point out that by itself the islamic bloc is a 'market' by itself. they might want to preserve their own cultural and historic identities, but as a group they seem to form a self referential middle-eastern arabic bloc, which look upon/within themselves for inspiration and ideas. how different is this from the western - caucasian bloc?

the apparent thing is that the western caucasian bloc is historically well accomplished and the most dominant bloc that is currently relevant for the rest of the globe, the middle-eastern arabic bloc less so.

b-ji what does it tell us about the arab world's attitude to the persian lead? the persians have been in the vanguard of these ideas no? how to understand the delay in catching up in the arab world?

and what does this mean to historical isolated blocs like india and china?

[brihaspati]

these revolutions themselves seem to be organic and independent. those arabs in the trishanku swarga - of being educated and exposed to western ideas and yet subjected to middle eastern ideas of governance, have moved one after the other.

do these serial revolutions highlight a natural cohesiveness between the islamic nations? i dont think this is a case for a calipahte, but it does point out that by itself the islamic bloc is a 'market' by itself. they might want to preserve their own cultural and historic identities, but as a group they seem to form a self referential middle-eastern arabic bloc, which look upon/within themselves for inspiration and ideas. how different is this from the western - caucasian bloc?

the apparent thing is that the western caucasian bloc is historically well accomplished and the most dominant bloc that is currently relevant for the rest of the globe, the middle-eastern arabic bloc less so.

b-ji what does it tell us about the arab world's attitude to the persian lead? the persians have been in the vanguard of these ideas no? how to understand the delay in catching up in the arab world?

and what does this mean to historical isolated blocs like india and china?

Persians were the historical bridge between CAR, the north of Caspian-Black-Sea-Steppe route of East West connection, Mesopotamia and India. Persians will never be "Europeans", and they cannot move out of the China and India pull. It was this connection that made it difficult for them to be completely swamped by the Arabs. Persian Islamization was not really successful until even the 10-th century. They are intelligent, and intelligent communities cannot subscribe to the proselytizing, identity-crushing forms of revelations for long. They opted out with the "Shia".

Arabic Islam succeeded by isolating, sanitizing, and insulating conquered territories - and detaching them from their global networks. These barriers are breaking down, so the older, and more natural global network connections are being revived. What is failing is "Arabism" and not Islamism as yet. This means an initial reaction against status quo will turn to nationalism, and a renewed attempt by the mullahs to save it all by raising the call for pan-Islam.

India should support "democratic liberal reforms" that does not try to reinstall medieval theocratic states through the backdoor. Moreover, the ME churnings should be a warning for China and Indian regimes too! Regime changes can become inevitable in both before the late 2030's. But this will go OT.

[Johann]

- Tribe still counts for a lot in Libya, since much of it was Bedouin. The tribes in the east are in revolt, and that extends to the army as well. The non-Bedouin origin population is also to a large extent alienated by Gadaffi.

- Gadaffi and his regime have no friends abroad to call on for support. Saif al-Islam is trying to use fear of a jihadi takeover to mobilise Western support. This is slightly less ludicrous than Mubarak's appeal - the second largest number of foreign jihadi volunteers in Iraq were Libyans, all of whom were anti-Gadaffi.

The biggest reason Europe will press for a calm and a quick resolution is that extended insecurity will send a tidal wave of refugees to Italy and beyond. Tunisia has already produced one.

I wouldn't rule out the potential for the Egyptian Army to intervene either.

- Libya will ultimately follow Egypt's example next door. Gadhdhaffi himself believed he was following Nasser's example and was initially popular for it.

[ramana]

I think North Africa from Egypt to Morocco is overthrowing the colonial order, the Ottomon order and the Mameluke order. That is whats happening. Its deeper than the cosmetic political reforms that agitators wee supporting.

[Purush]

Some kind soul please explain: who exactly is revolting in Libya?

Is it individual tribes, or is it the mango abdul? If both are revolting, who kicked it off first?
If it's mango abdul, how did he get access to enough weaponry to take on Gaddafi's forces? After all, Libya is a totalitarian state like Saddam's Iraq, controlled by Gaddafi from A to Z...weapons would not be easily available to the population, especially the anti-regime elements no? Obviously they have enough weapons to fight and put up a resistance, otherwise, these 'protests' would have been crushed in a day...as Johann mentioned Gaddafi would have no qualms about doing a Hama on any Libyan population center.

If it's the tribes, then what exactly do they want?

What surprises me most is that these revolts have continued for so long...I would've thought that gaddafi would put these down with extreme prejudice at the first hint of trouble...you don't get to be absolute dictator in Africa for 40 years by being Gandhian. So why this strange turn of events? Why now?

EDIT: Obviously the whole thing has been in the planning stage for a while. Regardless of romantic notions of the youth of the Maghreb/Levant spontaneously and 'peacefully' protesting for democratic change, in reality you don't go up against a brutal dictatorship on impulse...you need to plan and equip, otherwise you'll get crushed immediately. So who's backing the 'revolution' in Libya?

[Bade]

There are perhaps two very simple facts in most of these cases as I see it,

1) Most of the ME states have had decent standards of living when compared to the rest of the developing world for quite some time. The status quo with iron hand dictatorships looked quasi-stable with the usual dollops of Islamic history and its baggage. But it is misleading as people had enough "luxuries" already to take it for granted and want to taste more.

2) The western or old colonial world which was the external stable hand for the autocrats in ME, is losing its sheen for all to see. The US too under Obama seem to keep a distance largely as part of public discourse. This in itself is a good enough indication to prospective revolters that their dictators will remain weak if challenged, without the usual outside support.

[kmkraoind]

EDIT: Obviously the whole thing has been in the planning stage for a while. Regardless of romantic notions of the youth of the Maghreb/Levant spontaneously and 'peacefully' protesting for democratic change, in reality you don't go up against a brutal dictatorship on impulse...you need to plan and equip, otherwise you'll get crushed immediately. So who's backing the 'revolution' in Libya?

Call it conspiracy, IMO, US is facilitating these revolutions from behind. US was to preemptive the growing Chinese influence. Most of the revolutionaries are asking for jobs. For reconstructing their new regimes/government, people needs investment, which both US and China can provide. The caveat of Chinese investments are associated with shit load of Chinese people emigrating from Chine to execute these jobs, which may not be well received by these new governments. While US would provide $$$ loans did not take away low paid jobs. In one shot, US can preempt Chinese jobs and investments, also will become a new messiah for these new governments.

More over the oil-rich gulf countries started acting wisely and they started to hedge their US positions with China, allowing a greater say to China in international forum. Since its a zero sum game, Chinese gain is US loss. All these cloured revolutions initially seems to be against US interests, but in long term they have to embrace US. Going all these democracies like Hamas is a bit over stretched. Because funding, tribe's equations will takes preponderance over religious geal

From Indian POV, its puts Chinese growth to a brake. Since govt supplied mercenaries consists of paki brethren, except a strong black slash against bakis once these revolutions are successful. Definitely these are colored and flavored revolutions.

[Purush]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-end.html

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, Col Gaddafi's second son and heir apparent, appeared on television late in the evening to say there would be "rivers of blood" and that Libya was on the brink of a civil war that would burn its oil wealth.

"Our spirits are high and the leader Muammar Gaddafi is leading the battle in Tripoli, and we are behind him as is the Libyan army," he said. "We will keep fighting until the last man standing, even to the last woman standing...We will not leave Libya to the Italians or the Turks."

But he admitted that "civilians are driving tanks in Benghazi" and though he said only 84 people had died showed he was aware of the extent of the uprising.

The city was described to diplomats as a "war zone" by a senior regime official.

"Troops including mercenaries are being sent there by plane," diplomats said they were told. "The fighting is intensifying.

"Lots of people are being killed, including members of the security forces.

The figures are certainly above 200, with many thousands more injured across the country." Benghazi is 600 miles east of Tripoli, and has always been more hostile to Col. Gaddafi's regime than other parts of the country.

According to a local lawyer, members of an elite army unit known as "The Thunderbolt" defected to the protesters and overwhelmed a force belonging to the separate Republican, or Praetorian Guard.

"They are now saying that they have overpowered the Praetorian Guard and that they have joined the people's revolt," the lawyer, Mohamed al-Mana, told Reuters by telephone.

Rumours that mercenaries were being recruited by the government forced Libya's ambassador to India to resigned in protest. Ali al-Essawi told the BBC that he could not support his government's violent crackdown on demonstrators calling for the ouster of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.

The BBC, on its Arabic service website, said Essawi accused the government of deploying foreign mercenaries against the protesters.

See...armed protesters killing security forces, army units changing sides, ambassadors resigning in protest...these things don't happen unless the actors are assured of support from a strong external backer.

Which military officer/diplomat in his right mind would dare challenge a dictatorship otherwise? Sudden pangs of conscience etc don't wash...these guys were in all probability appointed as cronies of the current regime, and now they see better opportunities by opposing it....probably a nice fat paycheck or influential position in a future govt...there's no other explanation.

This 'revolt' looks more and more as if it is controlled from outside.

[shyamd]

What's happening in Libya can be compared closely to Egypt, but situation in Bahrain is very very different.

Libya:
East is in revolt. Major tribes in the Tripoli region have come out in force. The army in the east has helped the people and are in control of Bengazi.
Saif Gaddafi who is seen as pro west gave the speech yesterday and is basically blackmailing the west to keep their mouth's shut.

72% of libyan oil is exported to the EU, so they are heavily reliant on Libyan oil of which 32% is bought by Italy.

The Warfala tribe is one of the biggest tribes, and is currently beginning to rise.

Saif is highly respected and people expected that Saif would save the people from his father. Saif promised more subsidies and free bread etc.
Let's see how this plays out in the west of Libya. There is revolt in parts of Tripoli.

Some ministers have resigned and are supporting the protestors. The representative to the arab league has resigned and announced his support to protesters.

Bahrain

The Al Haq chairman is coming back from exile. The Al Wefaq who are the moderate shia voice are quite against this, as Al Haq is a threat to Wefaq's position.
Let's see how this plays out. The politicians are in fact said they don't want to depose regime. There are some people that are for getting rid of the Al Khalifa's.

[Johann]

Purush,

Gadaffi cut a deal with the West after the fall of Saddam in 2003. No more terrorism, no more WMD in exchange for an end to sanctions and isolation. Both sides have kept their part of the deal. Libya was essentially rehabilitated, and the French even resumed arms sales.

Libya is not isolated from the rest of the Arab world - the fall of Ben Ali and Mubarak shook Libya.

Just the same way that Nasser's revolution in Egypt inspired Gaddafi and his fellow officers in Libya.

Police states depend on fear, and when fear disperses, even regime enforcers start to worry. When the earth shifts, people scramble to land on the right side of history. You don't want to end up hanging from a lamp-post if you can help it.

Its like the fall of the Berlin Wall and the chain reaction that ended up reaching all the way to Moscow and the collapse of the USSR. No one *really* expected it to happen or to happen so quickly.

[shaardula]

b-ji, why do you call this fall of arabism? anywhere here you a write up on that? thanks.

[Aditya_V]

Might be OT here, but many NRI always call Air India crap, SH** etc , but when SHit hits the fan like in Gulf War, Egpt, Libya, Uzbekistan, Krgystan etc. None of the Shiny Jet, Lufthansa, Emirates, Singapore Airlines names do anything to rescue these people? Doesn't the social Service- which is heavily loss making for Air India needs to be recognised. If NRI's patronise Air India more I am sure they will be more profitable and provide better service.

[shyamd]

^^ In most cases governments will hire the planes for evacuation. Etihad evacuated UAE nationals, Qatar airways evacuated Qatari's. Lufthansa evacuated germans along with other operators etc etc.

[Lalmohan]

my original apprehension about the arab revolts was one based on the potential rise of the islamists. yet, the revolutions are more about bread and jobs than theological ideals. it seems to me that a more democratic maghreb and levant (dont know about the gulf as yet) will provide the 'poorer' and better educated arabs with more real opportunities and a greater say in their own lives. somehow political parties expending their energies in debates on budgets, public services and road construction and deal making scams is a better way to spend one's time than dreaming of jihad. i wonder if this is what mango europeans went through in the 1920's and 30's in the backdrop of marxism and fascism? I am begining to think that what is emerging is not good for the islamists, but its perhaps also not good for unkil

btw - i believe that the bangladeshis injured in libya were construction workers

[Suppiah]

This is neither the thread nor the moment to indulge in my usual friendly comments in favor of AI but suffice to say passengers 'rescued' from Egypt were gouged for huge amounts, made to sign bonds. Even if it was done FOC, AI parasites would loot $10 for every $1 spent by using this 'rescue' as a perpetual excuse. It would be money well spent just paying off any other carrier willing to do it even at high prices..

[Singha]

imo like communism the islamic police state has failed as a economic system. Too much corruption too little scope fr dissent. The chinese people having tasted some money and demand more?

[Singha]

beijing has blocked web content on jasmine revolt lol

[Singha]

america will find it tough to control any new democracies. Just like india unless they cn install a certified mms but even there some limits exist. Pak china duo would be last police states

[Mahendra]

Pee Pee Cee has an index on the middle east unrest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12482311

[shyamd]

Gurus, I ask once again - has anyone been tracking the Soros Foundation and its quest for democracy in the Middle East? Remember the fall of the Iron Curtain began with his money and of course funding from the State Dept.

Funnily enough he has placed a lot of bets in energy companies in West africa, morocco as well as Kurdistan. He's an early investor. Kurdistan is having a lot of protests. One day people will wake up to find that the Israeli/US backed regime in Kurdistan are also mass murderers on the lines of Saddam.

[ramana]

Quoting myself:

I think North Africa from Egypt to Morocco is overthrowing the colonial order, the Ottomon order and the Mameluke order. That is whats happening. Its deeper than the cosmetic political reforms that agitators wee supporting.

Arab Nationalism and Islamism are two -isms foisted on the people over last two centuries. All that is being thrown out. What people want is self-determination and the right ot choose.

Bahrain protest is asking the ruling family to go.


One fallout I can see in TSP is if the Khyber- Pakhtunwa folks rally in Peshawar and seek self-determination and end of the Paki misrule we can see a similar sitation as in Eastern Libya devleoping.

[Lalmohan]

hmmm... one scenario could even be the start of the shia-sunni war
not to mention other tribal wars as people nationally self-determine themselves

[ramana]

Nightwatch 2/20/2011

Special comment. Readers are watching the crumbling of the US policy architecture in the Middle East during the past four decades which stressed regional stability over all other considerations. That policy did not restrain Israel but did help limit conflicts, It also had many negative consequences for devout Muslims and supporters of the Palestinians.

The 2011 uprisings do not invalidate that policy relative to its effectiveness in earlier times, but show how legacy policies can atrophy, if not updated and refreshed skillfully. Three months ago, leaders who have been ousted or are now under stress were lauded by the US media as allies in the fight against Islamist terrorists. Suddenly in the US press, there is no threat of terrorism any longer, only of suppression of "universal human right"s by regimes that had US backing.

Readers, it is an astonishing coincidence that former allies are now labeled dictators and that the dictators are almost all US allies. The leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah, as dictatorial as any, face no uprisings. Nor does Asad in Syria or Bashir in Sudan. All are military-backed regimes in one sense or another. What are the probabilities of Arab turbulence only in countries friendly to the US, from Senegal to Djibouti?

As for the rising tide of human rights , apparently in the Middle East that is a male phenomenon. Women protest in public at great personal risk. It also seems targeted only at leaders, not at government systems. It is shallow as well as misogynist.

A final point is that the uprisings are different country-by-country. Like diseases that mimic each others' symtoms, they look and sometimes sound alike but are not in underlying impulses or ultimate goals. That means that one policy will not fit all.

[shyamd]

He's a big guy, he may be involved in privately at some level. Don't know much about his middle east investments, I happened to have coincidentally invested in the same companies in Kurdistan, Morocco, Nigeria etc. Have a look at the Soros fund website, maybe your answer is there.

--------------------------
British Foreign minister is saying that Gaddafi has left for Venezuela!! Currently they are using fighter planes to bomb or shoot at protesters in Tripoli!!

[SwamyG]

Seif has denied it:

"We are not Tunisia and Egypt,” he stated. “Moammar Gaddafi, our leader, is leading the battle in Tripoli, and we are with him. The armed forces are with him. Tens of thousands are heading here to be with him. We will fight until the last man, the last woman, the last bullet."

Read more: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/114605/ ... z1Ec5WpUKz

[Lalmohan]

since no one has brought up The Clash so far...

"Now the king told the boogie men
You have to let that raga drop
The oil down the desert way
Has been shakin' to the top
The sheik he drove his Cadillac
He went a' cruisnin' down the ville
The muezzin was a' standing
On the radiator grille

[Chorus]
The shareef don't like it
Rockin' the Casbah
Rock the Casbah
The shareef don't like it
Rockin' the Casbah
Rock the Casbah

By order of the prophet
We ban that boogie sound
Degenerate the faithful
With that crazy Casbah sound
But the Bedouin they brought out
The electric camel drum
The local guitar picker
Got his guitar picking thumb
As soon as the shareef
Had cleared the square
They began to wail

[Chorus]

Now over at the temple
Oh! They really pack 'em in
The in crowd say it's cool
To dig this chanting thing
But as the wind changed direction
The temple band took five
The crowd caught a wiff
Of that crazy Casbah jive

[Chorus]

The king called up his jet fighters
He said you better earn your pay
Drop your bombs between the minarets
Down the Casbah way

As soon as the shareef was
Chauffeured outta there
The jet pilots tuned to
The cockpit radio blare

As soon as the shareef was
Outta their hair
The jet pilots wailed

[Chorus]

He thinks it's not kosher
Fundamentally he can't take it.
You know he really hates it."

[shyamd]

That was from last night's speech. Did he deny it just now?

Thanks

[SwamyG]

From the news item:

The son of Moammar Gaddafi has denied media reports that his father has fled Libya for Venezuela. Seif al-Islam Gaddafi said his father remains in Libya.

He said:

Appearing on state TV, Seif also declared that his father is in charge of the country with the support of the army. In a rambling speech, he said that his father would "fight ... to the last bullet."

Read more: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/114605/ ... z1EcBbsaYl

[Gagan]

WoW man!
Some $hit going on in the arab world.

Can't but help thinking that somehow the ground is being laid for a world war - 3.

If the US and the west don't play their cards right, the entire arab world with the young unemployed abduls could turn anti-US and anti Israel, with the resulting complications and national security issues for them.

Amazing turn of events, need to keep a close watch.

[Dilbu]

Might be OT here, but many NRI always call Air India crap, SH** etc , but when SHit hits the fan like in Gulf War, Egpt, Libya, Uzbekistan, Krgystan etc. None of the Shiny Jet, Lufthansa, Emirates, Singapore Airlines names do anything to rescue these people? Doesn't the social Service- which is heavily loss making for Air India needs to be recognised. If NRI's patronise Air India more I am sure they will be more profitable and provide better service.

Air India is a national disgrace. As a nationalist I would have proudly patronised them if they had even an iota of respect for India and a little consideration for their countrymen. AI is practically looting gulf NRIs so let us not go there.

[Dilbu]

Two Libyan fighter jets refused to open fire on protesters and landed in Malta. The pilots have defected.

[ramana]

Can we take the Air India bashing elsewhere?
Thanks, ramana

PS: That means no more in this thread.

[SwamyG]

Has there been any America bashing in these "revolutions"? Like slogans against America, burning effigies, burning American flags ityad?

[Bade]

When will KSA implode ? I am eagerly waiting for that to happen, before claiming US sponsored hands in all these revolts.

All this will have a beneficial effect on India, hopefully if things go the non-Islamic secular way. Our Kashmir problem might just disappear without substantial Middle East support for such causes.

Jasmine revolution should be welcomed for the ME region.

[Lalmohan]

Has there been any America bashing in these "revolutions"? Like slogans against America, burning effigies, burning American flags ityad?

not that i have seen, its specific against the regime
even in egypt, the brothers kept away from "death to america"