Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2011

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 28 Feb 2011 23:38

chaanakya wrote: Amirkhan is most likely to waive all conditionality of doles and grant $ 3 Bn in exchange for Davis. (Sums may vary).

Sir, bounty on Bin Laden is 50 m$. You (and some other members) really believe US will pay 3 b$ for one man??

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 28 Feb 2011 23:42

abhijitm wrote:Sir, bounty on Bin Laden is 50 m$. You (and some other members) really believe US will pay 3 b$ for one man??

They were ready to increase Aid to $15 billion if davis was released.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 28 Feb 2011 23:43

abhijitm wrote:@chanaakya -
I disagree on the ground that pak-us relationship is far different than a country-to-country. First pakistan is not a country, so when we speak of law of pakistan then we should be careful of whether it is a law of taliban or ISI or CJ or Lahore court etc. Pakistan is a client state which survives on US money. They have no choice but to give up RD. Its in his rights whether or not he has a diplomatic cover. This is law of US in a land called pakistan.

Oh that's fine. Pakistan is a country. Ask SMK. They do have a legal system. Ask our HM. He has been given enough lessons in pakis jurisprudence. LAwhore Court or Taliban or ISI are no different. They are the pillars of legal system.They , among themselves, would decide when Davis is to be released.

But all this does not detract from the situation that Davis committed murder, an act yet to be proved as self defence and that it is doubtful if he had diplomatic immunity. He is a spy that is for sure and burnt forever. It would be interesting if Sharia is applied (davis is kafir) as it is self professed Islamic country.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 28 Feb 2011 23:46

abhijitm wrote:
chaanakya wrote: Amirkhan is most likely to waive all conditionality of doles and grant $ 3 Bn in exchange for Davis. (Sums may vary).
Sir, bounty on Bin Laden is 50 m$. You (and some other members) really believe US will pay 3 b$ for one man??

Wait and watch , Amirkhans are dealing with purest of the lot. They would cough up more than what is indicated here before Davis is released. I am anxiously waiting to see what spin is put on davis release by Paki army. They would be last to be seen as Naamard.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 28 Feb 2011 23:54

shravan wrote:
abhijitm wrote:Sir, bounty on Bin Laden is 50 m$. You (and some other members) really believe US will pay 3 b$ for one man??
They were ready to increase Aid to $15 billion if davis was released.

Sorry, I may have missed the news. When was it?
..I am sorry if I sound sarcastic but I cant help...All you are doing is deriving conclusion.
Rumors of in exchange dropping the case against Pasha sound more plausible.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 28 Feb 2011 23:55

This is official estimates

Funding represents the greatest U.S. leverage over Islamabad. U.S. military and civilian funding for Pakistan totaled more than $3.5 billion over the last year, according to congressional estimates.

Let us see what price

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 28 Feb 2011 23:58

If I were Unkil, I would just round up and start deporting all Pakis. Start with the nanhas of Jernails, kernails and lotas who seem to be having max fun (going by the facekitab pictures they post). Make munna UK do that too. Dont forget that remittance is a huge chunk of Paki dekhonomoney and dollahs from ummah birathers are going to dry up double quick (due to some small troubles there I hear).

Davis will be back double quick.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 01 Mar 2011 00:03

abhijitm wrote: Sorry, I may have missed the news. When was it?

http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... =2/19/2011

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 01 Mar 2011 00:14

chanaakya, we are talking about a (so called) country which against its will allows another country to bomb its territory in exchange of money! talk about the leverage! Where is the law? In such scenarios RD like incidents bound to happen; US must have some back up/negotiation plan. Imagine if an Indian spy was caught he would have been beaten to near death, whereas no such news on RD. An amicable solution will come out. But I dont think paying 3 b$ is an amicable solution for the US.
Imagine, to run the country all pak have to do is to create such incident and catch 1 american spy, per year.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 01 Mar 2011 00:28

shravan wrote:
abhijitm wrote: Sorry, I may have missed the news. When was it?
http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... =2/19/2011

shravan, please dont refer to paki site on such news. Otherwise we all are barbaric freaks occupying their land, stealing their water, also causing flood and what not

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Mar 2011 03:38

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/bel ... official-0
Pakistan playing cynical game with CIA contractor, says official

The media frenzy in Pakistan surrounding CIA contractor Raymond Davis, who shot and killed two men he said were attempting to rob him, is being orchestrated by the government, a U.S. official said.
The Pakistan government is, "playing a dangerous game with a innocent man's life - throwing diplomatic immunity out the window - and holding the US hostage," the official told The Washington Examiner. News reports in Pakistan stated that Pakistan offered to trade Davis for jailed Pakistani neuroscientist and al Qaeda operative Aafia Siddiqui. She was considered a hero by many Pakistanis for standing up to the west, despite being a woman and graduate from MIT. According to an ABC news report Monday, a top senior US official confirmed "that the Pakistanis have raised it" but that the administration would not "pursue it." US and Pakistani officials have been in ongoing daily talks regarding Davis' situation and "there are a number of options that are being discussed," said another US Official. As for Pakistan "there is no doubt that Davis is in the worst of situations and his continuous presence in the Pakistani media only makes it worse, as he is held out to the mobs who want to devour him," a Pakistani reporter told The Examiner

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Mar 2011 06:18

Prem wrote:http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/bel ... official-0
Pakistan playing cynical game with CIA contractor, says official

The media frenzy in Pakistan surrounding CIA contractor Raymond Davis, who shot and killed two men he said were attempting to rob him, is being orchestrated by the government, a U.S. official said.

Why the continued charade that the two men were going to "rob" Raymond when every mullah and his goat knows that the 2 lafangas were ISI goons.

All SDREs must encourage their TFTA birathers to stand up against the Great Khan, show their martial prowess and not back down 1 inch! - The eyes of the entire Islamic world is on them!

Meanwhile get the chips and popcorn to enjoy the ensuing show...

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 01 Mar 2011 06:57

India-Pakistan: Hand of Friendship

However, the legacy of conflict built on the bedrock of mistrust is hard to dislodge. As I have argued in my forthcoming book, Aparna Pande. Escaping India: Explaining Pakistan's Foreign Policy the mistrust that the Muslim League felt towards the Indian National Congress carried over even after Partition. A majority of Pakistanis -- not just leaders but also lay public -- believes that India has never accepted the creation of Pakistan and that India's foreign policy is geared towards the undoing of Partition. The fact that all Indian prime ministers and a majority of Indian leaders -- even those belonging to the Hindu nationalist movement -- have repeatedly expressed their acceptance of Pakistan and offered their hand of friendship, has not changed this perception. The Pakistani argument is that Pakistan mistrusts both India's intentions and India's capabilities and hence the fervent desire on the behalf of Pakistan to try to obtain parity at all levels -- especially economic and military -- with India.

According to Indian External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna India is ready to go "more than half way" in normalizing ties with Pakistan if Pakistan agrees to be "more sensitive" towards New Delhi's "core concern" of terrorism. Referring to Pakistan as India's "most important" neighbor, Finance Minister Mukherjee stated that "the stability and well-being of Pakistan" is in the interest of this country as the two could not develop and prosper in isolation today. "

Those policy hawks in India who expect Pakistan to break up because of its internal problems -- and hence do not see any benefit in engaging with Pakistan -- tend to forget that the country most affected adversely if Pakistan breaks up will be India. Millions of refugees escaping Pakistan will not go to conflict-ridden or unstable Afghanistan, Iran or the Central Asian states, but to India.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 01 Mar 2011 07:00

Pakistan: Muslim scholars continue to insist Islam is a religion of pece

Speaking on the occasion, Maulana Tahir Ashrafi said, “Although the minorities enjoy more freedom in Pakistan as compared to other countries of the world, however, we all need to review our attitudes towards the people of other religions.”

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 01 Mar 2011 08:10

40% OF Sindh Under Water?
http://tribune.com.pk/story/124950/fao- ... der-water/

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 01 Mar 2011 09:24

^^^^

Has to be. Especially when IMF is visiting today.

Meanwhile, Pakistan increase petrol prices. (You would be a cynic to think that it is related to the IMF visit)

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/01/99-per-c ... unner.html

This calls for a KFC burning and hopefully they wont disappoint!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Mar 2011 10:38

menon s wrote:40% OF Sindh Under Water?
http://tribune.com.pk/story/124950/fao- ... der-water/

It has risen to 45% now.

Actually I think a 0 is missing on the right hand side otherwise it cannot be halal madrassa mathematics.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 01 Mar 2011 10:59

abhijitm wrote:chanaakya, we are talking about a (so called) country which against its will allows another country to bomb its territory in exchange of money! talk about the leverage! Where is the law? In such scenarios RD like incidents bound to happen; US must have some back up/negotiation plan. Imagine if an Indian spy was caught he would have been beaten to near death, whereas no such news on RD. An amicable solution will come out. But I dont think paying 3 b$ is an amicable solution for the US.
Imagine, to run the country all pak have to do is to create such incident and catch 1 american spy, per year.

too many presumptions and assumptions you are making here. May be you have inner information which I don't have.

All I am saying is that Amirkhan must respect Pakistani institutions and legal system even though it is a client state. RD should be dealt with in accordance with their laws and international convention if applicable. SO far their judiciary (and yes their CJ stood up against the dictator which is unprecedented) is yet to give a determination on this. Civil Govt says they don't have records which amirkhans claim. Perhaps , people know what is actually the truth.

Pakistan , as an independent sovereign islamic nation, should be respected in the manner other countries are respected. RD exchange for whatever should not come as surprise as such things do happen and no one derides the country for pragmatism. But due process of law must take its own course.

Democratic and legal voices should prevail as it is prevailing in middle east.

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 01 Mar 2011 11:31

Ya arrah so much of Galat-family !!!

One petition requests the court to prevent the immunity issue from being heard in the International Court of Justice (ICJ) {Yes, the LaWhoree court supersedes the ICJ and it can direct the ICJ to shelve the case} as the case was already being heard in the LHC.

Petition filed to make the US party in Davis immunity case

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 01 Mar 2011 13:24

chaanakya wrote:All I am saying is that Amirkhan must respect Pakistani institutions and legal system even though it is a client state.

Pakistan , as an independent sovereign islamic nation, should be respected in the manner other countries are respected.

So I guess you are against the Dronacharya dispatching pakistani citizens then. In that case there is no point in debating. I get your point of view.
BUT if you are NOT, then please don't apply different law to poor RD.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 01 Mar 2011 14:28

abhijitm wrote:
chaanakya wrote:All I am saying is that Amirkhan must respect Pakistani institutions and legal system even though it is a client state.

Pakistan , as an independent sovereign islamic nation, should be respected in the manner other countries are respected.
So I guess you are against the Dronacharya dispatching pakistani citizens then. In that case there is no point in debating. I get your point of view.
BUT if you are NOT, then please don't apply different law to poor RD.

well you can guess and draw your conclusions or rather leap to it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Mar 2011 14:35

Brad Goodman wrote:India-Pakistan: Hand of Friendship

However, the legacy of conflict built on the bedrock of mistrust is hard to dislodge. As I have argued in my forthcoming book, Aparna Pande. Escaping India: Explaining Pakistan's Foreign Policy the mistrust that the Muslim League felt towards the Indian National Congress carried over even after Partition.

'Mistrust' is too simplistic a term to explain away the enduring hostility. It is far deeper than that. That is why J&K is only symbolic, though a very important symbol, of the deeper conflict. There are two themes that define the mindset of the citizens of Pakistan as far as India goes. These two themes are entwined in the DNA helix structure and cannot be easily gotten rid of. Let us see this from an Islamic perspective.

The first is that for almost 800 years, there was an uninterrupted Muslim rule either in a smaller scale at times or on a larger scale at other times in this land. The British sucked away the power from them, but returned it only partially to them when the time came for them to leave. This was hurting. Moreover, the subjects whom they conquered and treated contemptuously, got to enjoy the power surreptitiously through backdoor due to British munificence. That was even more hurting.

The second is that the Muslims probably failed in their 1400-odd years of history for the first time in Bharat. They could not convert the peoples of this land to Islam in spite of their 800 year old rule. They could not shake the faith of this land in spite of savagery and brutality of the highest order. They probably also failed in Spain for example, but India was a on a larger and longer scale of time. That was (and continues to be) hurting too. That is one reason why Pakistan finds solace in christening its missiles with the names of Muslim marauders of the most savage type. Abu Ala al Mawdudi was therefore incensed with the idea of Pakistan because that would be acceptance of defeat by Muslims and more importantly failure of Islam as a religion.

It is therefore naive to try to explain this enduring conflict as simply a mistrust between Muslim League (ML) and Indian National Congress (INC) over sharing political space in a likely independent India. That was how it manifested superficially, but the fault line runs much deeper. If it was not much deeper, there would not be a conflict today because, in the end, Pakistan (Jinnah & Co) got what it wanted. It could not even retain its physical frontiers securely and lost more than half its territory and population within a quarter of a century. And, yet, it chooses to continue the conflict with India over a much smaller piece of land and Muslim population even at great cost and peril to itself. The loss of East Pakistan and the surrender of 93000 Pakistani soldiers do not rankle a Pakistani mind, but Kashmir does. Every war against India was initiated by Pakistan. Every evil design came from the Pakistani works. It has gone to enormous lengths to sustain and grow this conflict by political, economic, military and diplomatic means. It has tried to masquerade its real twin intentions by variously citing J&K as a buffer against evil India or as the source of all its waters. It is therefore obvious that it is not mistrust or irredentism that defines Pakistan's conflictual attitude towards India.

A majority of Pakistanis -- not just leaders but also lay public -- believes that India has never accepted the creation of Pakistan and that India's foreign policy is geared towards the undoing of Partition. The fact that all Indian prime ministers and a majority of Indian leaders -- even those belonging to the Hindu nationalist movement -- have repeatedly expressed their acceptance of Pakistan and offered their hand of friendship, has not changed this perception.

The underlined portion above is a 'founding myth' of Pakistan. This was propagated by the State to sustain enmity with India. The burden then falls on India to disprove it and if it fails to do so (and India will always fail the test because Pakistan could never be convinced by whatever action India takes because it is determined not to be convinced), it adds grist to the mill and Pakistan can reinforce its claim that India never accepted the division in the first place and was just waiting to gobble it up.

I will repost what I wrote here years ago. Though such a concept of ‘Akhand Bharat’ was spoken of by a few sporadically, it never gained currency in India. Of course many Indian leaders during the nascent and intoxicating days of independence, felt that Pakistan may not be able to survive as an entity for too long. Moreover, there was no clear idea, at the time of Partition, of the future relationship between these two newly created countries. People had relatives and assets across the borders, including Mohammed Ali Jinnah. The noted Pakistani columnist and commentator, Khaled Ahmed, says that “Jinnah never thought that India and Pakistan would be hostile neighbours. The fact that three institutions in India - including the Aligarh Muslim University - were named beneficiaries in Jinnah's will clearly goes against the state-sponsored version of his life.” Pakistani litteretaeurs of great fame like Faiz Ahmed Faiz, Saadat Hasan Manto or Mohammad Saeed have captured the confusion of division and the ambiguity thereon. One of the prominent Muslim League politicians of that time, Ghulam Hussain was not only completely against Pakistan but also said that Jinnah himself was not completely convinced about that. Individual families also were confused to such an extent that some in the family migrated to Pakistan while others remained in India. For example, later day Indian President Dr. Zakir Hussain decided to stay in India while his brother moved over to Pakistan and ended up as a federal minister later on. Pakistan’s Foreign Secretary in the early 60s was M.Ikramullah who was the brother of the then Chief Justice (later Vice President) of India, Justice M.Hidayatullah. Such examples, not only among elite sections of the Muslim society but also among ordinary folks, are plenty. It is because of this division of families that we have today such a great demand for visas for travelling to each other’s country. Opinions and assessments expressed, therefore, during this time of great confusion could not be taken as deterministic foreign policies of a nation. No doubt, some leaders, including Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, thought that the partition was only temporary and Pakistan would be re-united with India.

However, Pakistani leaders mischievously propagated the idea that India was actively working to destabilize their nation and re-absorb it. In the history of Pakistan, one can see clearly the Pakistani State propagating such alarming assessments about India. For example, India’s supposed ‘stealing’ of waters from the Indus system of rivers or India’s conspiracy to dismember Pakistan through the separation of East Pakistan. In the early years after Partition, the various disastrous events within Pakistan itself lent credence to the Indian assessment that Pakistan may not survive as an independent entity for long. The paranoia about India in the minds of the Pakistanis was a deliberate creation of the State of Pakistan. Allama Iqbal and Mohammed Ali Jinnah along with his Muslim League leaders were able to create a sense of paranoia about Hindu domination and Muslim subjugation before Independence thus paving the way for a violent separation. In the final stages of this policy, extraordinary violence was employed to achieve their goal. Similar policies of paranoia and aggression were thus carried forward into the newly created state of Pakistan. The well known Pakistani historian, Ms. Ayesha Jalal speaks of Pakistan as ‘Paranoidistan’ caught in a mindset ‘heavily influenced by fear of India’ and consequently ‘conspiracy theories’.

James B · Post by **James B** » 01 Mar 2011 16:40

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/01/blast-in-mardan.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Gunmen on motorbikes wounded 15 girls when they opened fire with pistols and lobbed grenades at a college party in northwest Pakistan on Tuesday, police said.

James B · Post by **James B** » 01 Mar 2011 16:46

Hall of shame replace @ with p in htt@

Back in August 2008, the Asian Human Rights Commission reported that three girls and their two mothers had been buried alive in Baba Kot. The girls had wanted to marry husbands of their choice and were supported by their mothers in that decision. There were also reports that a local politician was involved in their murders. The news led to justifiable outrage and parliament was urged to condemn the barbaric crime. Senator Zehri, who is affiliated with the Balochistan National Party-Awami, just couldn’t understand what all the fuss was about. About burying the women who had ‘dishonoured’ their families, Zehri said, “These are centuries-old traditions and I will continue to defend them. Only those who indulge in immoral acts should be afraid.”

Zehri, already serving as the federal postal services minister, had been given a boost in stature and named food and agriculture minister.

So, if you do karo-kari you will be rewarded with plum ministries.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Mar 2011 16:59

SSridhar garu,

thanks for a very informative post. I think it is a keeper, and should be saved from the data oblivion that is the destiny of every post on TSP Threads!

James B · Post by **James B** » 01 Mar 2011 17:02

This kafir speaketh the truth

A pound of flesh from the US —Babar Ayaz

Our Afghanistan oil well has still not dried up and Raymond Davis has given another opportunity to our establishment to get a bigger pound of flesh from the US. As a side effect, the victims’ families might also get blood money and maybe a bloody passport, which most anti-American Pakistanis yearn for.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 01 Mar 2011 17:45

SSji,

Excellent summary. I hope posters like ******* understand this background and start seeing the JK issue deeper than 1947.

The ostrich secular minds cannot comprehend Indian history before 1947; but the truth existed for millennia.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 01 Mar 2011 19:00

Sridhar Sir, Once again, you have outdone yourself with such a succinct and lucid commentary on the myths about Pakistan.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2011 19:23

rounds1 and 2 go to TSP in the green corner.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 598831.cms

Post-Davis , 30 US spies halt covert mission, flee Pakistan
PTI, Mar 1, 2011, 05.43am IST

ISLAMABAD: At least 30 suspected covert US operatives have suspended their activities in Pakistan and 12 have left the country following the arrest of CIA contractor Raymond Davis late last month, a media report said on Monday.

In the wake of Davis' arrest in Lahore on January 27 for gunning down two men, Pakistan's intelligence agencies began scrutinising records of Americans living in the country and discovered "several discrepancies" .

This caused "many suspected US operatives to maintain a low profile and others to leave the country" , the Express Tribune newspaper quoted its sources as saying.

The foreign ministry says there are 851 Americans with diplomatic immunity in Pakistan , of whom 297 are not working in a diplomatic capacity . Interior ministry sources said that the number of US non-diplomats is 414.

The majority of these "special Americans" , as the interior ministry refers to them, are concentrated in Islamabad, while others live in Karachi, Lahore and Peshawar.

Interior ministry records state most of the "special Americans" live in upscale neighbourhoods in Islamabad and Lahore, with smaller presences in Karachi and Peshawar , the report said.

Most of these Americans are "suspected of being operatives of US intelligence agencies who are on covert missions in Pakistan" and report to the US Joint Special Operations Command, according to the sources.

James B · Post by **James B** » 01 Mar 2011 19:37

Singha wrote:rounds1 and 2 go to TSP in the green corner.

But the knock-out punch will be delivered by Unkil in the last round.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 01 Mar 2011 19:40

SSridhar ji excellent post. Thanks for taking time and drafting it. The only comment I have is if you can please fill the gap which would help mango abduls like me to understand this piece of history. I agree Jinnah, Nehru, Azad and host of leaders on both sides thought initially that Pakistan was either temporary (congress thinking) or the relationship will be what is between US & Canada (Jinnah line of thought) but everything was shattered by the brutal violence that erupted when radcliffe line was announced. We need to understand the players who encouraged violence and what they gained in this process. Same time we need to understand what made Jinnah keep his house in Bombay (hoping to return to it one day) and become a pawn in hands of superpower to play the great game. Was he only hoping to extract money from unkil so run the country? or was he looking to arm himself beyond his capacity to take on India (as his army thinks since 1947 till today). If experts like you, Ramana ji, Rajesh ji & Shiv ji can add details it can be an excellent post to be archived.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 01 Mar 2011 19:41

James B wrote:
Singha wrote:rounds1 and 2 go to TSP in the green corner.
But the knock-out punch will be delivered by Unkil in the last round.

Sounds like the match is already fixed. May be not just at result level but also at spot level. With Pakis playing who is suprised. All we need to find is who are scripting the play and follow them.

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Mar 2011 21:59

X Posted from the ISI History and Discussions thread.

The UK’s Financial Times on the notorious spy agency of the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the ISI.

Excerpts follow.

The current tensions between the ISI and its long standing bosom buddy the American spy agency, the CIA:

This year, the arrest in Lahore of Raymond Davis, an employee of the Central Intelligence Agency and a former special forces soldier, has stoked up the old fears amid a welter of anti-American protests. It has also laid bare the divisions between the CIA and its Pakistani counterpart: the Directorate General of Inter-Services Intelligence.

The two organisations, which found common cause in the Afghan-Soviet war of the 1980s and later in rounding up al-Qaeda suspects after the 2001 terror attacks on the US, appear increasingly at odds in the fight against Islamist extremism.

The ISI is the “deep state” in Pakistan that has resisted civilian control and has forged long-standing alliances with militant groups. It operates with menace and near-impunity. Yet its co-operation with western intelligence agencies is viewed as crucial to bringing greater stability to the region, an end to the Afghan war and a better understanding of global terror.

The repressive human rights record of the ISI:

Pakistani intelligence has also not hesitated to use repression on its own people, particularly in the restive south-western province of Baluchistan, where human rights groups say the force has been involved in years of torture and extra-judicial killings. In the past four months alone, at least 90 activists, teachers, journalists and lawyers have disappeared or been murdered in Baluchistan, according to Amnesty International. “Human rights abuses attributed to the security agencies have created a climate of fear for the families of the disappeared,” says Sam Zarifi, Amnesty’s Asia-Pacific director. “They are terrified to speak out in fear that security agents will kill their loved ones or abduct other family members.”

The India obsession of the ISI and the influence of the humiliating defeat inflicted by India on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in 1971:

“After that humiliating military defeat, which also led to more than 90,000 Pakistanis prisoners of war being taken by India, Pakistan’s military establishment decided ‘never, never again’,” says one former Pakistani general. “To this day, the military’s thinking and that of the ISI is driven by 1971.”

The existence of apologists for the ISI club among diplomats of Western Nations:

To many, the ISI’s role has shifted from counter-intelligence or counter-espionage to troublemaking in the region and maintaining links to militant outfits, such as Lashkar e-Taiba and the Haqqani network in Afghanistan, which now operate with a degree of autonomy. Yet some western diplomats, impressed by the direct style of Gen Pasha, like to give the ISI the benefit of the doubt. They view the flurry of contacts that take place between the ISI and militant groups not so much as collaboration but an attempt at regaining tighter control. “People know well that the game in town is with the army and the ISI. That’s why, it’s important to get those people on board,” says one. “The ISI may be part of the problem but it could be part of the solution too.”

Read it all:

On the high ground

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Mar 2011 22:18

Any editorials in paki papers about massive increase in defense spending by India while 1.1 billion indians are starving which forces pakistan no choice but spending more on its defense by begging and borrowing from the great satan?

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Mar 2011 22:31

^^^ The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s “Nation” has a frothing at the mouth editorial along some of the lines you seek. It covers at least the “massive increase in defense spending by India while 1.1 billion indians are starving” bits :

Indian machinations
Published: March 1, 2011

India continues to work in a coordinated way to harm Pakistan in any way it can. The latest evidence that its machinations against Pakistan are not because of some isolated group, but is part of policy permeating the highest reaches of Indian government, has been revealed in the latest five-year plan of the Indian Planning Commission, where there are detailed plans not only to make nonsense of the Indus Basin Waters Treaty through making dams on the Indus and other rivers of the Indus basin, but also to splurge $100 billion on equipment for the armed forces. The huge spending was perhaps made inevitable by the level and kind of spending undertaken in previous plan periods, and is part of the grand design to present to the world the image of an emerging world power.

However, the vast mass of Indians, mired as they are in grinding poverty, would certainly want this money spent on improving their lot rather than beefing up the already bloated armed forces. Apart from the fact that India is setting off a regional arms race with the new fighters, spy planes, helicopters and missiles it will acquire, it must be asked if the arms are even aimed at any country other than Pakistan, let alone where they will be used. While the arms may be used against other powers, there is no disguising that the plans made to violate the IWT may be on the excuse of hydroelectricity, but the hidden agenda, and the real intention, is that the Indian state will get the capacity to turn Pakistan into a desert by holding back its water.

The Nation

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 02 Mar 2011 02:13

Pak govt told to block anti-Islamic websites

LAHORE: With Facebook and several other websites allegedly featuring blasphemous material against Prophet Mohammed and the Quran, the Pakistan government has informed a court here that all required steps are being taken to block objectionable and anti-Islamic portals.

Are they blocking just the specific pages on facebook or entire application? I hope its latter so that RAPES are deprived of these kuffar pleasures all together.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 02 Mar 2011 02:17

Pakistan building colony for Chinese in PoK

In an indication of Beijing’s strengthening ties with Islamabad, Pakistan is constructing a colony of about 20 buildings for Chinese workers in Chattar area of occupied Kashmir’s Muzaffarabad district.

The construction, confirmation of which comes ahead of prime minister Manmohan Singh’s Beijing visit in April for a meeting to welcome South Africa into the Brazil, Russia, India and China (BRIC) group, will ensure a permanent footprint for China very close to India.

Highly-placed intelligence sources told DNA the settlement was being built on approximately four acres for Chinese workers involved in construction activities in the region.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 02 Mar 2011 02:41

The US House Committee on Foreign Affairs had a hearing today, titled "Assessing U.S. Foreign Policy Priorities and Needs Amidst Economic Challenges."

FWIW, at that hearing:
US lawmakers questions US aid to Pakistan

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 02 Mar 2011 02:51

It is just a dog and pony show for Pakistan's benefit.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Mar 2011 02:54

MISSION FREEDOM - US attempts to secure Davis’s release show its double standards - K.P. Nayar

...
Such a glaring double standard, which Americans make no bones about, is partly the reason why shreds of what remains of Pakistan’s self-respect in its dealings with the US cannot allow for the release of Raymond Davis, a Central Intelligence Agency contractor who shot dead two Pakistanis while he was working undercover in Lahore. A third Pakistani was run over and killed by a US diplomatic vehicle which went to rescue Davis.
...
...
In January 1997, Gueorgui Makharadze, the deputy chief of mission at the Georgian embassy in the US, driving drunk, killed a 16-year-old girl in a five-car pileup in the heart of Washington. Nicholas Burns, a familiar name in India as the top diplomat who navigated the India-US nuclear deal through the American system, was spokesman of the state department then. Burns had this to say: “It is state department policy to request a waiver of diplomatic immunity if local prosecutors pursue criminal charges. The government of Georgia would have to give consent to lift diplomatic immunity if charges are brought.” Mind the words, “Georgia would have to.” And as another client state of the US, its president, Eduard Shevardnadze, meekly lifted the immunity of its second ranking diplomat in the US. Makharadze was jailed for up to 21 years.
...
...
Unlike in the case of the Georgian, the CIA contractor in Lahore was not entitled to diplomatic immunity under the Vienna convention on diplomatic relations because he was not working at the US embassy in Islamabad. Let us assume for the sake of argument that he was a consular employee at the US diplomatic post in Lahore, which, in fact, he was not. Under the Vienna convention on consular relations, Davis would then have been entitled to immunity only in the discharge of an official act.
...
...
Conservative estimates are that there were at least 50 undercover CIA agents like Davis at the time of his arrest. They were not even known to the ISI, a situation which no spy agency could have tolerated. But the American mistake was that when the Pakistanis attempted to have at least a semblance of accountability thrust on them, the reaction from Washington was one of arrogance and defiance.
...
...
Last week, Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, flew to Muscat to meet General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan’s chief of army staff, in a fresh effort to find a solution. Earlier, General David Petraeus, commander of international security assistance force in Afghanistan, made a secret trip to Rawalpindi to see Kayani, but the Pakistanis were so angry at that time that they let it be known that Petraeus had visited Pakistan in the hope of freeing Davis.
...
...
Yesterday, the Obama administration rejected an offer from Islamabad to exchange Davis for Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani neuroscientist educated at the prestigious Massachussetts Institute of Technology, now serving out a jail sentence of 86 years in the US on a charge of conspiring to shoot agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and military officers in Afghanistan three years ago. Such swap proposals are reminiscent of spy exchanges between the US and the former Soviet Union, and provide a measure of how severely US-Pakistan relations are presently under strain.
...
...