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The U.S.-Pakistan relationship in disarray
BY MICHAEL KUGELMAN Link
Pakistan's prolonged detention of Raymond Davis, the CIA contractor who shot and killed two Pakistani motorcyclists in Lahore on January 27, has undoubtedly dealt a body blow to U.S.-Pakistan relations.
Yet it would be a mistake to assume the U.S.-Pakistan relationship was plunged into crisis only after Davis pulled the trigger, and that it will remain so only as long as he languishes in his jail cell. In reality, the Davis affair represents just the latest chapter in a lengthening narrative -- one of an unraveling partnership that some fear could rupture completely.
...
For the immediate future, the best-case scenario is that U.S.-Pakistan relations will simply continue to muddle along. With too many fundamental differences to consummate a healthy, sustainable relationship, yet with too much at stake for both sides to sever ties, a very shaky status quo may well persevere.
Michael Kugelman is the South Asia program associate at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars.
I am increasingly convinced that (well of course, in addition to creating takleef for the civvies and showing the world that they should talk to the Khakhis and not the civvies) the whole Raymond Davis saga is to get Pasha off the hook in the US court (where the relatives of the Rabbi who got killed have sued the ISI for causing the attack). The Pakis are have now placed a petition in Lahore High Court to make US Ambassador to Pakistan, Munter, a party to the case. If the Chief Kangaroo of the Lahore Kangaroo Court agrees to this, summons could be issued for Munter.
Then a negotiation for equal==equal could start asking for sovirgin immunity for Pasha, Headley not singing in Pasha trial ityadi.
Also to note that the Lawyer who is representing the case in NY also successfully argued the Lockerbie bombing trial and made the court ask for compensation.
@anujan ^^^: GOTUS cannot interfere in the court case. The default mode is that Pakistani Government has sovereign immunity until such time as DoS declares it a terrorist state (as it did Libya after Lockerbie).
FWIW, I discussed this with very competent legal counsel after 26/11. The RD case negotiations will go down another channel—not Pasha certainly and not Aafia (small fry). The quid pro quo in this case will be removing the kala pani guys who are running amok in TSP. And of course, Kerry-Lugar plus. The ISI is simply trying to teach CIA manners.
I stand corrected. But are the Pakis killing the golden goose? With ummah birathers getting the boot, expect the remaining ummah birathers and China to spend a lot on populist programmes. This means no free oil and no free money from China/Ummah leaving Unkil the sole source of baksheesh.
Pakistan, you are on a precipice. A wafer-thin sliver is all that stands between you and becoming a failed state. A state that was the culmination of a search for a ‘Muslim space’ by the wealthy Muslims of Northern India has ended up, as MJ Akbar recently pointed out, becoming “one of the most violent nations on earth, not because Hindus were killing Muslims but because Muslims were killings Muslims”.
The assassination of Salmaan Taseer saw not only the death of a man but also represented for me the death of hope in Pakistan. I did not mourn Taseer’s death. I did not know the man. But I mourned what he represented — the death of liberal Pakistan. The governor’s murder reminded us how far the extremist cancer has spread in our society. A cancer in which I saw colleagues and friends on Facebook celebrate his murder. A man murdered for standing up for the most vulnerable in our society — a Christian woman accused of blasphemy. He committed no crime. Instead, he questioned the validity of a man-made law — a law created by the British — that was being used as a tool of repression.
In death, the governor was shunned, unlike his killer, who was praised, garlanded and lionised for shooting Taseer in the back. Mumtaz Qadri became a hero overnight. But Qadri is not just a man — he’s a mindset, as eloquently put by Fifi Haroon. Fascism with an Islamic face is no longer a political or an economic problem in Pakistan, it’s now become a cultural issue. Extremism permeates all strata and socio-economic groups within society. Violent extremists may still make up a minority but extremism now enjoys popular support. As for the dwindling moderates and liberals, they are scared.
Another one of those nonsensicall, vacuous hot air, worrying about everybody else but your interests, from an argumentative Indian. I don't giv a crap as to whether US is following the law, or US practices double standards. Sure it does. All I want to see happen is that US see true face of the TSP abomination, that is, assuming it still hasn't, can cut military aid and the diplomatic equa equl with India. If that happens, I don't give a S@it as to whether US was righ or wrong on RD. If useless argumentative Indians like Naya are so concerned about double standards, tell them to call into task all the double standrads of TSP against India, most recently its conduct of the 26/11 slaughter.
CRamS wrote:
Another one of those nonsensicall, vacuous hot air, worrying about everybody else but your interests, from an argumentative Indian. I don't giv a crap as to whether US is following the law, or US practices double standards. Sure it does. All I want to see happen is that US see true face of the TSP abomination, that is, assuming it still hasn't, can cut military aid and the diplomatic equa equl with India. If that happens, I don't give a S@it as to whether US was righ or wrong on RD. If useless argumentative Indians like Naya are so concerned about double standards, tell them to call into task all the double standrads of TSP against India, most recently its conduct of the 26/11 slaughter.
CRamS, what is the harm in that article? The article has its advantages. The best India can do is to play up US and Pakistan against each other, and this article does it pretty well. It will also cause takleef to any pakis reading this article. They can say "even India knows we are doing the right thing" and continue on that path, no?
The KPN article is not going to drive a wedge between Pakis and Unkil. Instead, it is going to (perversely) fuel an anti US (as if it's needed) feeling among the JNU Jholawalas, the Karats and the Jawed Naqvi faithful. In short, it's going to make that much harder for India to exploit the emerging fissure between the Pakis and Unkil.
putnanja wrote:CRamS, what is the harm in that article? The article has its advantages. The best India can do is to play up US and Pakistan against each other, and this article does it pretty well. It will also cause takleef to any pakis reading this article. They can say "even India knows we are doing the right thing" and continue on that path, no?
In general I agreee with you on adopting a Chanakyan attitude. Both US as the ring leader, and TSP as its foot soldier have done enormous harm to India. So I am enjoying the circus as the 2 thieves slug it out. And I too am hoping that this RD affair will lead to further plummeting in US-TSP love fest. But I doubt it. SDRE containment is very high up on US agenda that the think tank and other US power elites still need TSP for thier strategic value. But we'll see.
Having said that, I do not sense a Chanakyan tone in K.P. Nayar's (nor do I among other Indian elites showing profuse sympathy for TSP) views. More likely its that reflexive "universal justness" nonsense that us SDREs have been bred with and love to show off as "argumentative Indians", or a reflexive anti-US position that does India no good, or equally likely a measure of cowardice in showing off to TSP, India's good neighbourliness even as TSP contemptuously says give me Kashmir or else we'll terrorize you with our pigLeTs, and we'll nuke you should dare contemplate any retaliatory action.
Cosmo_R wrote:The KPN article is not going to drive a wedge between Pakis and Unkil. Instead, it is going to (perversely) fuel an anti US (as if it's needed) feeling among the JNU Jholawalas, the Karats and the Jawed Naqvi faithful. In short, it's going to make that much harder for India to exploit the emerging fissure between the Pakis and Unkil.
KPN is still stuck on anti-imperialism 101
Cosmoji,
If KPN had written a pro US article do you think JNU types would have shunned their anti US stance? And that Jaweed Naqli does not even qualify as pro India forget pro US.
Parthaji, that is exactly the point. Neither JNUs nor JN are pro India. They are only anti-US. Anything serves as anti-US tinder even if it might be in India's interests. In THAT vein, the KPN article only preaches to the choir and gets them mobilized.
IOW, we are confusing articles that would inflame Pakis by belittling their H&D and getting them into strategic defiance (e.g. suicide) mode with articles like KPN's and others' that express outrage at US dual standards (which we all know exist) and getting us Indians into SD mode.
In short, we need articles that inflame the Pakistanis and not put us as == in outrage with the Pakis. It's difficult to express this concisely but I hope you get the gist.
Its well known that Poaks will not do anything recommended by India or an Indian. They will always suspect the kuffar motive but question is JNUwalas are hardly Indian in heart, mind and soul. Just keep watching the Bhangra/ Ballet by the Snake and Scorpian. Saannp ko Saanp Larre tho Jahar kisnu Charre?
Report that the US is going subvert the course of justice for Indian’s by granting sovereign immunity to ISI head in the 26/11 court case launched in the US in return for the release of US “Diplomat” “Raymond Davis”.
While the US will have no compunctions of selling Indian’s down the river by offering such a deal, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan would be stupid to accept the bargain if such is indeed the case as it is very unlikely that the US will ever get to have custody of the ISI head who will no doubt remain safely within the borders of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:
CRamS wrote:All I want to see happen is that US see true face of the TSP abomination, that is, assuming it still hasn't, can cut military aid and the diplomatic equa equl with India. If that happens, I don't give a S@it as to whether US was righ or wrong on RD.
Tut, tut, I thought we spent several pleasant pages on BRF with the argument that if the US cuts military aid, etc., then worse will follow - China will more than fill the gap
The assassination of Salmaan Taseer saw not only the death of a man but also represented for me the death of hope in Pakistan. I did not mourn Taseer’s death.
George ka khuda hafiz — I
Yes I feel Pakistan has a hope deficit-it is up to India to fix Pakistan's aas hole.
Rangudu wrote:I agree with CRS. Guys like K.P.Nayar suffer from a chronic and reflexive anti-Americanism arising perhaps from an anti-colonialist upbringing.
Not to mention anti Indian-ism when supporting the purelanders.
One way out of the mess surrounding the Jan. 27 arrest in Lahore of CIA contractor Raymond Davis, say senior U.S. and Pakistani officials, is a Muslim ritual for resolving disputes known as "blood money." This approach would require a prominent Islamic intermediary - perhaps from Saudi Arabia or the United Arab Emirates - who would invite relatives of the two men Davis killed to the Gulf. Payment to the victims' families could then be negotiated quietly. Once the next of kin had agreed to this settlement, the legal case against Davis for murder might be moot in a Pakistani court. A senior Pakistani official in Washington outlined this "blood money" concept in a conversation Monday. An official of that country's Inter-Services Intelligence directorate also endorsed this approach; he said it had the advantage of meshing with the dispute-resolution customs of the Middle East and South Asia. Asked about such a third-party mediation to free Davis, a senior U.S. official said Tuesday: "The United States is open to exploring any and all options that could resolve this matter. . . . It's in our mutual interest to move beyond the Davis issue, and we believe the Pakistanis understand the stakes involved." Pakistan also wants a pledge by the CIA that it will not conduct "unilateral" operations within its borders, like those in which Davis was allegedly involved. The Pakistanis say they want to be treated in intelligence matters like other allies of the United States, such as Britain and France, or, closer to home, Egypt, Israel and Jordan.
For now, the one certainty is that the CIA and ISI would like to resolve this issue quietly, with outside help, if necessary - before it gets any worse. If mediation fails and the case goes to court, says one Pakistani, it will be an "atomic bomb."
ISLAMABAD: Federal Minister for Minorities, Shahbaz Bhatti was assassinated in a firing incident in Islamabad, Geo News reported. Close aides of the minister told Geo News that the minister succumbed to the injuries.
He was rushed to the hospital. Unknown assailants shot the minister when he was leaving from his house in Sector I-8.
Bhatti, a Roman Catholic given a full-fledged cabinet position under President Asif Ali Zardari, said he has been receiving death threats “day and night” and that his family was also at risk.
“I am ready to lay down my life for the principles I believe in. Terrorists and threats cannot hinder my cause to stand for justice and equality and religious freedom,” he said.
Bhatti is working on a project to form local committees that would promote inter-faith harmony and sort out disputes.
Poor fellow, was Catholic. Only crime was that he was born in the wrong country. Apparently got death threats and declared Waji-bull-cattle by TTP and fatwa for beheading.
He was traveling in a bullet proof car. The car was stopped, he was pulled out and shot. And the assailants had time to scatter fatwas, distribute TTP literature and then saunter over to their getaway car and drive off.
menon s wrote:The pamphlets thrown over Shabaz Bhatti`s body are written, " Movement of Taliban Al qaeda Punjab"? what is that?
the purest of the pure iam sure
on a serious note i think and hope they were self motivated mumtaz quadri copy cats (probably some unemployed paki youth) who may be playing cricket in the day and planning Jeehard during the night.
Last edited by Lilo on 02 Mar 2011 13:16, edited 1 time in total.
^^^ Another round of inteviews with puki liberals on undtv coming up due to this incident, how they are all liberal and only 0.0001% of pukes who are extremist are holding the peaceful rest at ransom.
Tut, tut, I thought we spent several pleasant pages on BRF with the argument that if the US cuts military aid, etc., then worse will follow - China will more than fill the gap 
