Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 02 Mar 2011 12:07

I'm not sure of the name but it is the 120mm tank gun launched missile for the Arjun, something similar to the LAHAT.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 02 Mar 2011 12:14

^^^ ~~Refleks~~

LAHAT

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 02 Mar 2011 12:19

They call it CLGM (Cannon launched Guided missile)

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 02 Mar 2011 15:09

Austin is still on Win XP

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Mar 2011 15:12

Dmurphy wrote:Austin is still on Win XP

Not really Sir , got that from GarryB so its his box , me a poor sdre opensource fella use opensuse

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 02 Mar 2011 20:48

please see this. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 5#p1039145
it had the same content.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 04 Mar 2011 03:31

chackojoseph wrote: It is not Arjun tank. Its anAERV

No no that can't be right. Your link says they were developed in India. If there is any gyan I've learnt on this thread it is that the Indian Army does not buy anything made in India and/or that doesn't come with natasha/vodka. Being as it is populated with experts in warfare, both urban & desert (unlike say the Indian Army), anything contrary to that cannot possibly be true.

Satyamave jayate and all that jazz.

P.S ooh I know maybe the BMP-2 chassis comes with natasha installed.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Mar 2011 09:19

anjan wrote:No no that can't be right. Your link says they were developed in India. If there is any gyan I've learnt on this thread it is that the Indian Army does not buy anything made in India and/or that doesn't come with natasha/vodka. Being as it is populated with experts in warfare, both urban & desert (unlike say the Indian Army), anything contrary to that cannot possibly be true.

Satyamave jayate and all that jazz.

P.S ooh I know maybe the BMP-2 chassis comes with natasha installed.

I have always praised certain sections of IA like engineering, signals etc.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Mar 2011 09:59

I missed this old image, that was perhaps posted in the earlier thread, but the NERA addition is making a killer looking tank. The additional 2 tons is compensated with 100hp more power (1500hp indigenous). I wish they could keep the 58ton weight with NERA, perhaps reducing internal weight somewhere using advanced materials.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Mar 2011 10:05

^^^

Where is the 7th road wheel?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 Mar 2011 10:15

^^^^^ Where the is the top sloping for top attack munitions?

rahuls · Post by **rahuls** » 04 Mar 2011 11:04

@ SaiK. That is Japanese Type-10 MBT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_10

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Mar 2011 11:38

definitely not arjun....the electro optics are all different.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Mar 2011 12:29

Thats a nice looking tank , has some innovations in it .. well they can now fight against Godzilla

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Mar 2011 21:40

Was on google for arjun mk-2 pics, apparently from some asian site talking about arjun. /Sorry

does look very impressive.

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 09 Mar 2011 20:50

Just some new news:

New regiment raised and inducted : 54 AR (T-90)
New regiment raised and under induction : 55 AR (Arjun)

Drishyaman · Post by **Drishyaman** » 09 Mar 2011 21:14

d_berwal wrote: New regiment raised and under induction : 55 AR (Arjun)

WOW !! d_berwal sahab, now brings some good news on Arjun

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 10 Mar 2011 00:12

d_berwal wrote:Just some new news:

New regiment raised and inducted : 54 AR (T-90)
New regiment raised and under induction : 55 AR (Arjun)

So, d_berwal sahab, the raising of regiment from the (I) Armored Squadron and conversion is through? When do 56 and 57 AR come online? You gave details about them many moons ago (to be raised in 2011).

Thanx.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Mar 2011 19:25

abhik wrote: Also lets not forget the tank barrel launched missile being developed by the DRDO, which should be ready along with Mk 2.

Guys,

The Information on the missile is a bit lacking. Has it been test fired and if not when are we likely to see the first teat firing. In addition to this, is it a fire and forget missile?

Will really appreciate enlightenment on this subject.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 10 Mar 2011 20:17

Wake up my friend and go through the thread carefully. Here are two articles from 2004 of the successfull integration of the LAHAT with the Arjun.
Laser Homing Anti-Tank (LAHAT) Missile for MBT Arjun

Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, in collaboration with a firm has developed a Laser Homing Anti-Tank (LAHAT) Missile for firing from the 120 mm rifled gun of MBT Arjun. LAHAT is a semi-active laser homing missile, which can be fired from the main gun of the tank similar to conventional rounds. The missile would significantly enhance the fighting capability of MBT Arjun since its maximum effective range is 6 km as compared to the 2.5 km of conventional ammunition. The missile can be fired either in a lofted trajectory against AFVs or in a flat trajectory against helicopters. The fire control system of the tank would include a laser designator, which will project a coded laser beam on the target. Target designation can also be done by another tank or ground laser designator.

As an intermediate stage towards the firing demonstration, some LAHAT Missiles were fired from the main gun of MBT to confirm the missile launch parameters such as sabot separation, fin deployment, etc. The penetration capability of the missile warhead was tested and the results confirmed to the requirement.

[The missiles used for the firing demonstration were fitted with telemetry transmitter in place of warhead. Mobile telemetry station, generator vehicle, special target fixture and other equipment were developed for the programme. The firing results and telemetry data analysis revealed a high accuracy and repeatability of the performance.

Laser missile developed for ‘Arjun’ tank
NEW DELHI, PTI:

Indian defence scientists have claimed to have achieved a breakthrough by developing a beyond-visual-range missile ‘Lahat’ for the country’s indigenous main battle tank Arjun.

The laser anti-homing Lahat missile is capable of being fired from the 120mm rifle gun of the tank which now gets a capability matching the just-acquired T-90 tanks, which sport a BVR missile of over 5 to 8 km engagement capability.

DRDO officials said that Lahat is a semi-active laser homing missile, which could be fired from the main gun of the tank similar to conventional rounds.
“This would significantly enhance the fighting capability of the MBT Arjun since its maximum effective range is 6 km as compared to the 2.5 km of conventional ammunition,” officials said.

They said the missile could be fired either in a lofted trajectory against armoured fighting vehicles and in flat trajectory against helicopters.

“The fire-control system of the tank would include laser designator to project a coded-laser beam on the target. Target designation can also be done by another tank or ground laser designator,” DRDO scientists said.

The DRDO said some of the newly-developed Lahat missiles had recently been test-fired from the main gun of the MBT Arjun in field trials to confirm the missile launch parameters such as sabot separation.

Officials said the penetration capability of the missile warhead was tested and “the results conform to the requirements”.

The links may not work now. But surely it is an embarassment for all here that we are asking for a capability in MK2 that could have been deployed on MK1 7 years ago!! Of greater shame is the fact that the IA's much hyped T-90 wasn't able to fire the shtora then.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 10 Mar 2011 20:29

Vivek K wrote:Of greater shame is the fact that the IA's much hyped T-90 wasn't able to fire the shtora then.

Fire the shtora!!

Sniff!!

Gentlemen Please google for Shtora!!

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Mar 2011 21:23

Vivek K, the name of the missile is Refleks. Shtora is the T-90's active protection suite, highly praised by T-90 lovers here while carefully avoiding mentioning the fact that IA T-90s don't have it.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 10 Mar 2011 21:29

nachiket wrote:Vivek K, the name of the missile is Refleks. Shtora is the T-90's active protection suite, highly praised by T-90 lovers here while carefully avoiding mentioning the fact that IA T-90s don't have it.

Au contraire; the tests of T-90 showed that Shotra was "not ready" in 1998-99 time frame and hence not purchased. With erenewed emphasis on active protection measures, some kind of active protection measure would be needed. There is already news of the same for Arjun Mk II, and possibly the same could be fitted on T-90 as well.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Mar 2011 21:41

Sanku wrote:
nachiket wrote:Vivek K, the name of the missile is Refleks. Shtora is the T-90's active protection suite, highly praised by T-90 lovers here while carefully avoiding mentioning the fact that IA T-90s don't have it.
Au contraire; the tests of T-90 showed that Shotra was "not ready" in 1998-99 time frame and hence not purchased. With erenewed emphasis on active protection measures, some kind of active protection measure would be needed. There is already news of the same for Arjun Mk II, and possibly the same could be fitted on T-90 as well.

I am not arguing against the effectiveness of Active Protection systems. My point is that despite the fact no IA T-90 is currently equipped with the Shtora, it hasn't stopped people from trying to make the argument that the T-90 somehow scores over the Arjun because of the Shtora.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Mar 2011 21:56

Fire the shtora!!

why not take this idiomatic perhaps for laser jamming emissions and firing smoke screens, laser designators feeds to take an action to either scoot or fire?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Mar 2011 22:14

AMCA feasibility study to be completed in 18 months

Meanwhile, replying to a question on Futuristic Infantry Combat Vehicles (FICV), the Minister said four agencies have been nominated for issuance of Expression of Interest (EOI).

"The Department of Defence Production has nominated four agencies including Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) for issuance of EOI for design development of prototype of a FICV,"he said, adding the cost will be known after the analysis of the Detailed Project Report (DPR) submitted by the nominated production agencies.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 10 Mar 2011 22:25

Marten wrote:Or the argument that the T-90 costs lesser than the Arjun, when in fact it doesn't when one takes into account the hardware that is not on it!

Which?

Other than the cooling systems & APU, the specs in terms of hardware items (not the specification of the items) are almost identical today!! Arjun's specs are better in many area's hence more expensive.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 10 Mar 2011 23:07

Thanks, for the correction, Nachiket! My bad!

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 11 Mar 2011 07:17

We all must have laughed at the requirements set by the Army for the Arjun. Seems now Arjun got it's BVR capability not only to shoot at tanks but also shoot down helicopters. Hope soon army will ask the tank to have capability to hit at supersonic aircraft and then at stealthy J-20 with BVR mizziles.

What the tank now can do is launch the missile at beyond visual range while the ground troops paint the Khalid with laser and then no one knows what hit the mighty Al-Khalid.

Now what's lacking is nulear propulsion and underwater warfare systems in Arjun. With the introduction of that, we can hunt for Paki and Chinese subs in the Arabian sea with our own Arjun. firing torpedoes from the main gun that goes atleast 100kms. Hope DRDO will do that as well as required by the Army. And the cost of Arjun must be slightly lower than T-90 rather than slightly higher.

I still don't understand why we manufacture T-90's instead of the Arjun MK1.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 11 Mar 2011 07:54

Sanku wrote:
nachiket wrote:Vivek K, the name of the missile is Refleks. Shtora is the T-90's active protection suite, highly praised by T-90 lovers here while carefully avoiding mentioning the fact that IA T-90s don't have it.
Au contraire; the tests of T-90 showed that Shotra was "not ready" in 1998-99 time frame and hence not purchased. With erenewed emphasis on active protection measures, some kind of active protection measure would be needed. There is already news of the same for Arjun Mk II, and possibly the same could be fitted on T-90 as well.

From what I understand the Shotra system cannot detect or provide protection against wire guided ATGMs which are if I'm not wrong the only kind of ATGM which the packis (and chinese?) have, In effect completely useless from our PoV.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 11 Mar 2011 09:29

^^^TSPA also has RF version of TOW ATGM. Wire-guided ATGM come with their own set of headaches.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 11 Mar 2011 10:00

Have any operational doctrines been firmed up around the use of Arjun....

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2011 10:57

abhik wrote:
sanku wrote: Au contraire; the tests of T-90 showed that Shotra was "not ready" in 1998-99 time frame and hence not purchased. With erenewed emphasis on active protection measures, some kind of active protection measure would be needed. There is already news of the same for Arjun Mk II, and possibly the same could be fitted on T-90 as well.
From what I understand the Shotra system cannot detect or provide protection against wire guided ATGMs which are if I'm not wrong the only kind of ATGM which the packis (and chinese?) have, In effect completely useless from our PoV.

You are certainly right, and especially in the context of the time frame when the decision to not buy Shotra was made in 98-99. However I do remember that there were reports of Shotra not being really ready as well.

However on the more general point of need of active protection systems -- well acquisition of newer missile systems is a far quicker job than retrofitting tanks with their protection measure and training tank crews to use them.

For example there are now reports of PLA moving to next gen laser guided ATGM

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/crewserved/hj9.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HJ-9

So......

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Mar 2011 11:39

all our adversary forces will eventually get out of the wire guided ATGM business, so that's a red herring.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Mar 2011 11:56

Sanku wrote:For example there are now reports of PLA moving to next gen laser guided ATGM

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/crewserved/hj9.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HJ-9

So......

HJ-9 looks like lic manf Russian Chrysanthemum-S ATGM , the missile looks so identical down to rear control surfaces and the penetration capability of HEAT is identical 1200 RHAe , not to mention the dual mode guidance of MMW and Laser guidance

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Mar 2011 11:59

Marten wrote:
Sanku wrote: Arjun's specs are better in many area's hence more expensive.
Gotcha.

No you didnt

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 11 Mar 2011 13:38

Drishyaman wrote:
d_berwal wrote: New regiment raised and under induction : 55 AR (Arjun)
WOW !! d_berwal sahab, now brings some good news on Arjun

Not really.

The order book score still is:

Arjun : 124 orders + maybe 124 more
T90 : 1000 odd.

The IA may throw a few scraps here and there for the Arjun, like one does to a street dog, but it will still enjoy the party at the T90 table.

vic · Post by **vic** » 11 Mar 2011 14:54

Tanaji wrote:The order book score still is:

Arjun : 124 orders + maybe 124 more
T90 : 1000 odd.

The IA may throw a few scraps here and there for the Arjun, like one does to a street dog, but it will still enjoy the party at the T90 table.

Actually T90 is 1600+ confirmed

Arjun 124 confirmed and next 124 depends on fresh trials

vonkabra · Post by **vonkabra** » 12 Mar 2011 09:27

Sanku wrote:So despite, reports and reports like the following

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uJSo2eSyKE

Sorry for putting this up late, but there's something interesting about this video. There's some cool footage of a T-90 firing a missile at night and hitting a target some distance away. Unfortunately, if you actually check the video carefully, it's not a T-90 which fired the missile but a BMP-II !! Nothing wrong in it, but showing such a clip in a video about the T-90s capabilities is open to interpretation.

I've got nothing against the T-90 in particular, but an IA video showing the T-90 hitting something with its missile would really build more confidence in its capabilities.

venku_Raj · Post by **venku_Raj** » 12 Mar 2011 10:07

Arjun set for formal induction into Army