Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 16 Feb 2011 04:57

Pakistan Test Fires Nuclear-Capable Hatf-7 Cruise Missile

According to Pakistan’s chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Khalid Shamim Wynne, the new missile would help in consolidating Pakistan’s strategic deterrence capability. ”Babur can carry strategic and conventional warheads” said Major General Athar Abbas, a military spokesman. Abbas described the missile’s main attributes as low-level flight (terrain-following), stealth and radar avoidance features, high manoeuvrability and pinpoint accuracy. The missile uses passive guidance employing Terrain Contour Matching (TERCOM) and Digital Scene Matching && Area Correlation (DSMAC) to achieve an accuracy of 3 meter Circular Error Point (CEP), used in surgical strikes.

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Feb 2011 09:43

X Posted from the ISI News and Discussion thread.

“Jihad fi Sabilillah” or “Jihad in the way of allah” part of the motto of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in action.

Farhat Taj writing in the Daily Times opines that “ the Urdu media has lowered itself in perpetuating the military establishment’s inflicted terrorism in FATA”. Recounts an article in Urdu daily Mashriq about Caucasian women wanting to marry Islamic Terrorists. Farhat Taj indicates that the story was “planted by the intelligence agencies of Pakistan to romanticise the beastly Taliban in the eyes of young tribesmen”:

Urdu media: dirty and dangerous

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Feb 2011 12:15

j10 in china thread avoids full loop 3 times. Ef with heavy pyld in fborough 2010 also avoids. But clean tjs ef rafale do it. Maybe it stresses and bends up the wings or hits some -ve g limit.

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Feb 2011 13:00

Khaled Ahmed in the Express Tribune:

“The lodestar of Pakistani hatred is India and is military-driven.”

From here:

Hating the hegemon

arun · Post by **arun** » 21 Feb 2011 07:17

X Posted.

How does this square with the “ Jihad fi Sabilillah” or translated “Jihad in the Path of Allah” part of the motto “Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah” or “Faith, Piety and Jihad in the Path of Allah” which is used by the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

How is it legitimate from an Islamic standpoint for an Army claiming pursuit of Jihad in its motto to kill fellow Muslims who are likewise claiming to pursue their Islamic duty of Jihad?

Pakistani Troops Kill 15 Militants in Gunbattle

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Mar 2011 21:30

Two FAC (M) under construction:

Keel laying ceremony of state of the art Missle Craft for PN held

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 02 Mar 2011 08:07

“We have plans to have more F-16s and are negotiating with the U.S. government for more”

Pakistan Air Chief Outlines Procurement Plans

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 02 Mar 2011 08:20

^^^^ Maybe they plan to get 10 odd F-16's in exchange of the US diplomat they have in custody

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Mar 2011 09:03

they average around one F-16 baksheesh squadron per DECADE inspite of all their well laid plans ... if ALL of their approved F-16s come through total fleet strength will be around 75 near about 2015 inclusive of the 32 that are in process of MLU to block30 std (from blk15) and 8 replacements for crashed planes which were already at mlu level. due to structural and engine differences I do not think Block30/40 can be upged to Block50/52 (not sure?)...all of the block50+ seem to be new build airframes.

there is a version of block30 called "bigmouth" after a large chin air intake thats allegedly the best at ACM among all the F-16 versions. not sure if thats the version (with re-engining) the pakis are getting but it would be a good platform with the apg68v9 radar and amraams.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Mar 2011 13:10

Have the Pakis received all the 18 F-16 Block 50/52's. Ithought only 3 were deleivered. If 18 have been delivered then there fleet of 63 F-16 aircraft present a huge threat to India. Given our M-2K's and M-29 are going for an upgrade, I fear the pakis feel thier aircraft is strong enough unlike Kargil time. Definately this means there is likely to be some mischief from thier side soon.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Mar 2011 14:09

the MKI's are sitting on their a$$es are they ?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 02 Mar 2011 14:20

If less than 100 F-16 is a huge threat, wonder what will you term the planes that china has?

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 02 Mar 2011 14:42

^^^ Yeah. And with IAF's multiple assembly lines (2 for MKI), 1 each for MMRCA and Tejas in near future combined with Mig29 and M2K MLUs, Pak will be hard pressed to present a "minimum level of deterrence" that they have always strived for. I guess Bandar's numbers don't count for much.

Bihanga · Post by **Bihanga** » 02 Mar 2011 19:07

What are the possibilities of PAF getting loads of Air to Ground ammunition from Arab world for their newly acquired F-16?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Mar 2011 20:51

krishnan wrote:If less than 100 F-16 is a huge threat, wonder what will you term the planes that china has?

The way I see it is that one F-16 in Paki hands in one too many. The fact that China has more does not in any way make the Paki threat smaller.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 07 Mar 2011 16:35

While most of us Mango Abduls keep debating and discussing Chinki Stealth, we have a more serious threat emerging on our western borders. !

Hold onto your Dhotis, Fellow Injuns !

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Mar 2011 16:41

nirav wrote:While most of us Mango Abduls keep debating and discussing Chinki Stealth, we have a more serious threat emerging on our western borders. !

Hold onto your Dhotis, Fellow Injuns !

Take about getting Maximum FOD in your engines, such a plane will flameout before take off( provided it finds a road flat, straight long like a runway.

Nice Photoshopped Pic.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Mar 2011 19:57

Aditya_V wrote:
Take about getting Maximum FOD in your engines, such a plane will flameout before take off( provided it finds a road flat, straight long like a runway.

Nice Photoshopped Pic.

Don't be so sure. This is a special road capable Bundaar - the main identifying feature is the tailfin arising from the right side of the back of the fuselage and not the centerline leaving the dorsal surface of the aircraft free of all obstructions for good rear view in case something like an "Ambalans" needs to pass

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Mar 2011 20:00

indeed the tailfin has been moved down to the right for better stealth and FCS adjusted to account for the asymetric tailfin..again a first for a inservice fighter after the DSI intakes.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Mar 2011 20:21

you miserable kaffirs, don't you know that this is the new pindigenous road cleaning vehicle? It sucks up all the dirt and debris from the roads and turns it into djinn energy in a high energy plasma stream, which it proudly ejakkulatj from musharraf cone

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 08 Mar 2011 07:07

That Pic is worth a 1000 words!

Pakistan In Negotiations For More F-16s

Pakistan is in negotiations with the U.S. to get more Lockheed Martin F-16s beyond those it has on order, while at the same time it is developing its defense manufacturing capability to reduce its reliance on the U.S.

Pakistan air force Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman disclosed this, though no firm numbers were given. Qamar spoke to Aviation Week in Melbourne, Australia, where he was attending an air chiefs’ conference.

In 2006 the U.S. Congress agreed to give Pakistan 28 F-16C/Ds under an excess defense articles initiative. The first 14 aircraft were recently delivered. Qamar says negotiations are ongoing for the remaining 14.

Pakistan has a total of 63 F-16s—45 A/Bs and 18 C/Ds. Qamar says all the A/Bs are to undergo a mid-life upgrade and become C/D aircraft “close to Block 50” standard by 2013-14. The first three A/Bs are being upgraded at Turkish Aerospace Industries.

Pakistan is also an ally of China, and the countries are jointly developing the JF-17 fighter, which is being produced at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra. Qamar says the second squadron of JF-17s will go into operation in late March, and at that time the Chinese Nanchang A-5, a ground attack aircraft, will begin to be phased out.

Qamar says he has made a concerted effort to increase the manufacturing capability of Pakistan’s defense industry because the country has, in the past, been subject to sanctions and embargoes.

Chengdu F-7s and Dassault Mirages will be phased out as we get JF-17s,” says Qamar. “Some of our Mirages are the oldest in the world,” dating back to 1967. Phasing these out is a top priority because they are difficult and costly to maintain; no one is producing spare parts for them anymore. “We are getting second-hand parts, but we don’t know” their provenance. “It’s a flight-safety issue and a nightmare for me,” he adds.

When asked about data links to tie F-16s to JF-17s, Qamar says Pakistan is working to develop its own solution. “We have Link 16 on the F-16s. We will not fiddle with Link 16 and not have direct linkages [between the JF-17s] with the F-16” He says an indigenous tactical data link is being worked on. It will send information from the JF-17 to a ground station where there will be an interface, he says, adding there will be a short delay, and then the information will be sent to the F-16s.

Pakistan also has different types of airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft. Pakistan has three Saab Erieyes and will receive its fourth mid-year, says Qamar. This is its last Saab Erieye on order. Pakistan is also due to receive mid-year its first Shaanxi ZDK-03. Four are on order and the first rolled out of the Shaanxi Aircraft factory last November.

Besides AEW&C aircraft, Qamar says, “we are talking to some Western companies about tankers.” The country now has four Ilyushin Il-78s.

And UAVs are eagerly sought. They already have Selex Galileo Falco UAVs, and Qamar says an agreement has been reached with the Italian company to allow some Falco UAVs to be made in Pakistan both for the local market and for export. Production will start this year, he says. In the past, Pakistan reportedly wanted to have the Falco armed, a request that Italy rejected. Qamar says the Falco UAVs made in Pakistan will carry no weapons and will be used for reconnaissance and surveillance, mostly of areas where terrorists may be entrenched.

A longer-term issue is whether Pakistan needs a fifth-generation fighter. Rival India, is teaming up with Russia to develop a fifth-generation fighter based on Russia’s T-50. When asked if Pakistan would like to be part of the Chengdu J-20, fifth-generation fighter program, Qamar says: “We don’t have any involvement in this development so far. This seems to be an indigenous effort and we will keenly watch it. Obviously, China is a very good friend.” But it will be years before the J-20 becomes operational in the Chinese air force, he adds

Well that lays to rest ANY AND ALL doubts about the production version of J-20 flying before 2020!!!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Mar 2011 07:59

Hold onto your Dhotis, Fellow Injuns !

Did he fill up at that gas station?

Nice work tho'.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 08 Mar 2011 08:18

Craig Alpert wrote:Pakistan In Negotiations For More F-16s

How many F-16s is Raymond Davis worth?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 08 Mar 2011 12:41

Do you know how the first Pakistani F 16 crashed?

I read it in Aviation Week, years back (early 80's). The wingman fired his Sidewinder only to watch in utter horror as it killed his leader!

Tried finding it on the net, but couldn't.

ajit_tr · Post by **ajit_tr** » 08 Mar 2011 13:19

rajanb wrote:Do you know how the first Pakistani F 16 crashed?

I read it in Aviation Week, years back (early 80's). The wingman fired his Sidewinder only to watch in utter horror as it killed his leader!

Tried finding it on the net, but couldn't.

Code: Select all

Aircraft: : 81-0918


 
[No photo available] 

Submit a photo	LM Aero T/V	5G-20
Plant	General Dynamics
Local C/N	
Delivered	PAF 85720 
F-16A Block 15S
Current	PAF 85720 
F-16A Block 15S
Status	[w/o]

 Copy-paste this code to link this airframe from the F-16.net forum


 
Aircraft History

Date	Status	Local S/N	Airforce/Unit	Version	Name	Info
17 Dec 1984	[act]	85720	 	F-16A Block 15S		
FMS Program: Peace Gate II
Unknown	[act]	85720	  PAF 14 sqn	F-16A Block 15S		
29 Apr 1987	[msh]	85720	  PAF 14 sqn	F-16A Block 15S		
[b]Shot down by Wing Commander Amjad Javed - mistakenly shooting down his wingman. Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan ejected safely.[/b]
29 Apr 1987	[w/o]	85720	  PAF 14 sqn	F-16A Block 15S

http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F ... file/1205/

BhairavP · Post by **BhairavP** » 08 Mar 2011 16:29

Posting without comment:
http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?714306

nits · Post by **nits** » 08 Mar 2011 16:51

Engage Pakistan’s army

The going-nowhere dialogue with Pakistan will restart later this month when foreign secretary, Nirupama Rao, meets with her counterpart, Salman Bashir. As our foreign ministry well understands, a fresh start does not guarantee fresh results. The dialogue is doomed to failure for the simple reason that New Delhi will again be talking to proxies, with the military --- the real power centre in Pakistan --- exercising its veto from the shadows.

Few would dispute that New Delhi must engage Pakistan’s democratic leadership, providing them credibility and building a constituency for peace. But Indian decision-makers have blundered in leaving all interaction with the Pakistan Army to the US and the UK, both of which are being manipulated with consummate ease by a Rawalpindi club that has perfected this art since the Cold War days of Ayub Khan. It is time for New Delhi to buttress its political dialogue with a direct engagement of the men in khaki. The best way to begin that is through military-to-military ties.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 08 Mar 2011 19:14

^^^ mil-mil ties are progressing well at the wagah border everydin

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 10 Mar 2011 10:50

@Ajit_tr

Thanks mate. My memory isn't all that bad!

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 10 Mar 2011 10:59

There is another funny incident, this time about the Paki & Irani navies.

After our Western Command had shagged Karachi, in 1971, the Shah of Iran sent a couple of his destroyers to Karachi as a show of solidarity. And much to their utter surprise, the Pakis fired on both of them, damaging them! I possibly read it in the TOI, Bombay edition, and later confirmed by my friend, who was a CO of one of the Missile boats which took part in the attack of Karachi. :rotfl

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 10 Mar 2011 11:51

Pak plans to acquire 6 submarines from China

After inducting advance fighter jets from China, Pakistan plans to buy six state-of-the-art submarines from the neighbouring country in a bid to boost its under-sea warfare capabilities.

Islamabad is planning to buy six submarines outright with options of joint development of conventional submarines with China, The Express Tribune reported.

The newspaper did not mention the class of submarines being sought by Pakistan saying merely that Islamabad wanted advanced under-sea vessels with air independent propulsion (AIP) system, which would give them capabilities to stay submerged longer and operate noiselessly.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 11 Mar 2011 10:23

India, Pakistan test fire nuclear-capable missiles

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2011 18:28

pakis are bak doing their usual dance of begging for more used F-solahs

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/10/pakistan ... f-16s.html

“We will take as many as they are willing to give,” said a diplomatic source when asked how many of these aircraft Pakistan was seeking.

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 11 Mar 2011 19:50

Singha wrote:pakis are bak doing their usual dance of begging for more used F-solahs

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/10/pakistan ... f-16s.html

“We will take as many as they are willing to give,” said a diplomatic source when asked how many of these aircraft Pakistan was seeking.

words of inspiration

aren't they are inducting most advanced fighters of the century i.e., JF-17 & J-10s

then why they are looking out for used F-16s

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2011 20:44

because F-16s of around block30+ std are better than next-gen J-10.

its anyone's guess when J-10 will match the block50 if ever.

sum · Post by **sum** » 11 Mar 2011 21:13

“We will take as many as they are willing to give,” said a diplomatic source when asked how many of these aircraft Pakistan was seeking.

Truely, the Paoks have mastered the art of " Allah ke naam pe dede baba"!!!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 12 Mar 2011 00:38

sum wrote:
“We will take as many as they are willing to give,” said a diplomatic source when asked how many of these aircraft Pakistan was seeking.
Truely, the Paoks have mastered the art of "Allah ke naam pe dede baba"!!!

I have gotta stop eating/drinking while reading BR forum...I choked while reading this. Good One!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Mar 2011 05:52

Rakesh wrote: I have gotta stop eating/drinking while reading BR forum...I choked while reading this. Good One!

Who's this newbie? Why am I reminded of 10,000 tons of mithai?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Mar 2011 11:24

AWOL but technically ok until the Nerpa docks in indian waters.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 12 Mar 2011 18:11

rajanb wrote:I possibly read it in the TOI, Bombay edition, and later confirmed by my friend, who was a CO of one of the Missile boats which took part in the attack of Karachi. :rotfl

Are you still in touch with your friend? Any chance you could invite him to BR, maybe request him to write a bit about his experiences during the period?