Telangana Monitor

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 03 Mar 2011 20:12

There are about 12 kinds of Telugu sir. Each areas has their way of Telugu. The same is true for any language with large polulation. It is true for Kannada or Tamil or even Hindu. Before Islamic invasion Telugu language is same in entire Telugu lands and present day AP is by and large the Kakathiya Empire. For eample irragation tank just adjusent to Nellore town is constructed by Kakathiya Empire under Pratapa Rudra Deva.

The Bhagavatham in translated into Telugu by Pothana in Warrangal. It is called Srimadandra Bhagavatham. I wonder if it will be forced change into Telangana Bhagavatham as its name. Katakthiya Kings called themselves Andradeshadhisha. The last king of the empire committed suicide when he was being taken to Delhi by jumping into Narmada river. The converted Harihara and Bukka Rayas were recoverted into Hindu fold and found the Vijayanagara Empire and protected the Dharma for about 400 years. Yet KCR and gang is not ready to emdrace the glorious legacy and past. They want to be part of Nizam and Razakar killers legacy.

pramodkumarca · Post by **pramodkumarca** » 06 Mar 2011 18:39

uncouth parochial comments deleted.
poster is advised to lower his moronic quotient if he wants to stay here.
Rahul.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 06 Mar 2011 20:07

Welcome boss. I hope you will contribute better than this in future for the debate.

Indications are there is going to be some anouncement may be this month. But what no one knows. Mr Rajiv Pratap Rudi wants to introduce a resolution in the Rajya Sabha for 2 states names Telangana, Gurkhaland and one union Territory Ladakh. ( I dont why Jammu is not there in the proposed statehood list) By adding Gurkhaland and Ladakh to Telangana demand BJP is ensuring that fear of Telangana decision becomes more in Congress and their gang. With frinds like BJP who needs any more opponants.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 07 Mar 2011 10:48

RamaY wrote:Cine writer Tanikella Bharani wrote a Siva Stotram in telangana language

http://telugu.greatandhra.com/cinema/1- ... 02_bha.php

It proves that telangana telugu (unlike our [sic] seculars who start in 1947, for this group history of telangana starts at Islamic rule) is nothing but telugu mixed with urdu.

I wish they are fighting for their Kakatiya kingdom. People take offense when I call t-vadi culture is nothing but dhimmitude.

eh...so anything that you don't agree with is dhimmitude??? Telangana proper hasn't been a part of any union with Coastal Andhra for most of he past 1000 years. and as such, dhimmitude of TRS/KCR is common to politicians in general. no need to mix politicians' deracination with that T-movement.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 07 Mar 2011 18:15

devesh wrote:
RamaY wrote:Cine writer Tanikella Bharani wrote a Siva Stotram in telangana language

http://telugu.greatandhra.com/cinema/1- ... 02_bha.php

It proves that telangana telugu (unlike our [sic] seculars who start in 1947, for this group history of telangana starts at Islamic rule) is nothing but telugu mixed with urdu.

I wish they are fighting for their Kakatiya kingdom. People take offense when I call t-vadi culture is nothing but dhimmitude.

eh...so anything that you don't agree with is dhimmitude??? Telangana proper hasn't been a part of any union with Coastal Andhra for most of he past 1000 years. and as such, dhimmitude of TRS/KCR is common to politicians in general. no need to mix politicians' deracination with that T-movement.

Check the posts earlier in this thread. Telangana proper is about 150 year old. Telangana name itself maybe about 400-500 years old.

T-movement is political convenience and mileage and exploitation and has nothing to do with culture or language. Historical culture of Telangana is Andhra culture of Trilinga Desam.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Mar 2011 20:18

devesh wrote: eh...so anything that you don't agree with is dhimmitude??? Telangana proper hasn't been a part of any union with Coastal Andhra for most of he past 1000 years. and as such, dhimmitude of TRS/KCR is common to politicians in general. no need to mix politicians' deracination with that T-movement.

Dimmitude will not go away even if I agree with you and/or T-state is formed.

Dhimmitude started around 1321 when the Islamic invaders destroyed Kakatiya kingdom. What made you to go as back as 1000 years and not beyond that?

This is one image I could find on the extent of Kakatiya Empire. Now you tell me how Telangana language, culture, and history are different from Unified Andhra language, culture, and history.

You can read about it here.. http://jambudveep.wordpress.com/categor ... jayanagar/

or a google book on Ganapati Deva

From Wiki

Ganapati Deva (1199-1262)

Following the death of Mahadeva disorder broke out in the kingdom. Recherla Rudra, the commander-in-chief of the Kakatiya ruler, saved the kingdom from crumbling. Ganapatideva was set free by Jaitrapala due to political considerations like his desire to secure himself against an attack from Warangal in the event of a conflict with the aggressive Hoysalas in the south. Ganapatideva's reign lasted for 60+? years. It is one of the most brilliant epochs in the history. Ganapati during his long reign brought under his sway almost the whole land inhabited by the Telugu speaking people, from Karimnagar and Anakapalle in the north to Ongole in the south . Though Ganapatideva was alive until 1269 CE he handed over the threads of administration to his daughter Rudramadevi in 1262 A.D. itself and retired from active politics.

Ganapatideva was known as the greatest of the Kakatiyas and the first after the Satavahanas to bring the entire Telugu area under one rule. He put an end to the rule of the Telugu Cholas in the year 1216 who accepted his suzerainty. He established order in his vast dominion and encouraged trade. It is around this period that the Golconda fort was constructed, as well as beautiful temples in the Kakatiya art form such as Ramappa Temple at the tiny village of Palampet outside of Warangal.

P.S: Is this our own Jambudweepa's blog?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 07 Mar 2011 20:48

the last 500 years of history has effectively created a large enough rift between Telangana and Coastal Andhra that can't be papered over just because they have the same language.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 07 Mar 2011 20:57

The word Telangana is a Persian word. It is similar to Rajputana. Gurus can examine but as for my recollection goes it means land of Telugu people. Silimarly entire AP is Andhra desha in old days. The political unity was also there under Nizam till they started to sell/cede the lands to French/English. That is why some parts of AP like Coastal districts are called as Sarkar and Rayalaseema areas used to be called as Ceded. The present day Telangana was called Nizam.

The position of Telugu/Hindu was some what better if you can call it under Qutub Shahi rule. But once Nizams came into power after elimination of Qutub Shahi by Moguls the position went from bad to worst. There were no schools in Telugu langauge in Nizam rule. No one can speak in Telugu in any Public meeting. Yet Nizam took lot of educated Telugu people from other areas and settled them in Hyderabad.

Further entire repressive system of Zamindars (Doras as they are called in Telangana area) along with Patel Patwari village administration ensured all the villagers are little more than slaves. Entire loot from people with numeorus taxes like Ash Tax ( ash of dead people being burn) etc left people with nothing whereas Nizam was one of the richest persons in the world.

When Independence had come and Nizam areas mearged with India these areas were under Surplus with funds mainly because of taxes as mentioned above and there is no prohibition under Nizam rule (strange for a Islamic Kingdom) and there was total prohibition in rest of Telugu areas. The so called rift never came into fore till date.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Mar 2011 21:41

devesh wrote:the last 500 years of history has effectively created a large enough rift between Telangana and Coastal Andhra that can't be papered over just because they have the same language.

Whose fault it is, Golkonda sultanate's or the other side? Why are telangana vadi's fighting an invaders fight preserving their memes?

Why is it so important to preserve the aberration of 1321-1948 while ignoring periods before 1321 and after 1953? Who is fighting whose fight? What is this if not Dhimmitude?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 07 Mar 2011 22:13

the "aberration" of 1321-1948 is more than 625 years of history....

also, in your own post it is stated that Kakatiyas brought all Telugus under one rule for the first time after the Satavahanas. the Satavahana rule ended circa 200 CE. so we are talking about a 1000 year period before 1200's and a 625 year period from 1321. so, in the last 1800 years, united Telugu rule lasted only 175 years. 1800 minus 175 gives me 1625 years during which the Telugu provinces of Telangana were mostly separate from coastal Andhra.

that isn't an aberration. that's the general trend. the opposite, in fact, is the aberration.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Mar 2011 22:31

Look at it this way...

Why Telugus united every time the opposition waned? I see it as that Telugus were separated only for 1625 years in its eternal history. If you read Kota Venkatachalam garu, you will see that Andhra kingdom started millions of years ago by Andhra, son of Yayati...

What forced Telugu separation in 1321? Is it internal struggle or Islamic invasions? Why does someone want to be a Paki in their own house? What are the motivations?

What is self-rule? who is ruling whom in democracy? How many non-telanganas representing telangana constituencies in Assembly and Parliament?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 07 Mar 2011 23:05

Politics aside - Any one interested in the best of the best Telugu litarature from present day Telangana - Srimadandra Bhagavatham by Potana. I have a Audio tape of Gajendra Moksham chapter. In case any one interested email me at [email protected]. You will hear to the best of theTelugu peoms there. Audio by Sri C. Koteswar Rao Garu.

Comming to political unity can any one tell me when was entire Tamilnadu was under one Tamil King ? Present day political stupidity is not there as long as and in the places where Hindu kings were ruling. The Marata Kings of Tanjavore as good as promoting local languages than other local kings of Tamilnadu.

Those who are asking for Telangana tell why Andramahasabha is there in the middle of Hyderabad and who found that intitute and why. The word Andra was used for all Telugu people and all Telugu areas. That is why Kakathiyas are called themselves Andradeshadhisha. But some how the T Vadis are not ready to accept this truth. I wonder why a persian name given by genucidal invaders became so important than the Sanskrit Name comming from Bramhana texts and is in use for at least 2000 plus years.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2011 23:15

Chola-Chalukyas.

During the Raj days a lawyer faced the British judge who knew Potanna's Bhagavatm and started saying "Law okka yintu ledu...!"

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Mar 2011 05:20

RamaY wrote:Look at it this way...

Why Telugus united every time the opposition waned? I see it as that Telugus were separated only for 1625 years in its eternal history. If you read Kota Venkatachalam garu, you will see that Andhra kingdom started millions of years ago by Andhra, son of Yayati...

What forced Telugu separation in 1321? Is it internal struggle or Islamic invasions? Why does someone want to be a Paki in their own house? What are the motivations?

What is self-rule? who is ruling whom in democracy? How many non-telanganas representing telangana constituencies in Assembly and Parliament?

what the hell....where do you get of calling me a Paki? for that matter since when did T-vadis become Pakis??? this is outrageous. so now, Andhraites console themselves by having delusions of Telangana movement being Paki???? your language is insufferable. and I strongly object to it. I also ask the mods to please look into the matter and judge whether calling the Telangana movement Pakified is justified or even acceptable.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Mar 2011 06:34

ramana wrote:Chola-Chalukyas.

During the Raj days a lawyer faced the British judge who knew Potanna's Bhagavatm and started saying "Law okka yintu ledu...!"

It is same portion I am speaking about. Bhagavatham perhaps represents pinakle of the telugu litarature ( I may be forgiven because my knowledge of the same is limited).

I agree that no one from our country should be called as a Paki. We can not also call our own people as Settlers, looters, cheats etc and threaten them to cut their tongues. Threaten them to leave and go away. We can not also build movements on hate and lies. We can not attack people anywhere muchless at their houses because they do not agree with our movement or oppose it. We can not threaten people that that they will not be allowed to walk on the streets. We can not join with naxals and other gangs like that for any reason giving them some kind of respectability. We can not beat up teachers because they are not from our area. We can not beat up MLA anywhere including in the premises of Assembly,because he does not share our ideas. Unfortunately we are doing all these things. The level and the fastness the T agitation allowed itself to be degraded is quite surprising. It only shows the level of leaders we have in politics and nothing else. Once the agitation went to down to such low levels there will be no respect left for any one including well meaning people, supporting it. Particularly when they are keeping silent when all these things happening.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 08 Mar 2011 06:47

devesh wrote:
RamaY wrote:Look at it this way...

Why Telugus united every time the opposition waned? I see it as that Telugus were separated only for 1625 years in its eternal history. If you read Kota Venkatachalam garu, you will see that Andhra kingdom started millions of years ago by Andhra, son of Yayati...

What forced Telugu separation in 1321? Is it internal struggle or Islamic invasions? Why does someone want to be a Paki in their own house? What are the motivations?

What is self-rule? who is ruling whom in democracy? How many non-telanganas representing telangana constituencies in Assembly and Parliament?

what the hell....where do you get of calling me a Paki? for that matter since when did T-vadis become Pakis??? this is outrageous. so now, Andhraites console themselves by having delusions of Telangana movement being Paki???? your language is insufferable. and I strongly object to it. I also ask the mods to please look into the matter and judge whether calling the Telangana movement Pakified is justified or even acceptable.

Devesh, I really dont want to justify the above statement from RamaY (let him defend it himself) but I do find atleast a couple of similarities with Telangana and the Pakistan-Partition situation. See promodkumarca's statement a few posts earlier in this thread about sending the Seemandra people out of Hyd. That is no different from the Pakistani thugs 'sending' Hindus/Sikhs out of Lahore during partition. You may argue that one BRF member's opinion does not constitute the general stance of T-vadis. However, the menace is there, and the current hooliganism going on in Hyd. show that the menace is real.

Which Telengana leader has publicly asked for Seemandhra people to stay back in Hyd. after Telangana formation? Please let me know.

(Talking about hooliganism, you may have heard that Dr. JP was physically assaulted by some TRS MLAs and a car driver- in the state legislature. While hitting people for expressing their opinions is not uniquely Paki (it is very Indian too, unfortunately), TRS MLAs (!) doing it to a gentleman like JP who is not of the usual goonda-politician mould is more than half-way Pakistani).

Added later: promodkumarca's comments were deleted by mods. I wish the mods had left them in for all to see. Essentially, it came down do: we are getting Telengana shortly and teh Seemandhra people would be sent packing after that.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Mar 2011 07:14

devesh wrote: what the hell....where do you get of calling me a Paki? for that matter since when did T-vadis become Pakis??? this is outrageous. so now, Andhraites console themselves by having delusions of Telangana movement being Paki???? your language is insufferable. and I strongly object to it. I also ask the mods to please look into the matter and judge whether calling the Telangana movement Pakified is justified or even acceptable.

I understand your frustration. I am making a comparison between the approach followed by pak-vadis and t-vadis.

Pakistan demand was made on the premise that Muslims cannot live peacefully and progress amidst of Hindus and deserve a separate rashtra (I know in telugu we translate it to state only) so they can pursue their own destiny at their own pace. In order to make that demand meaningful, they had to create an intolerant, uncompromising and exploiting image of out a Hindu Bharat. When it didn't create necessary critical mass they needed to call for and execute direction action days.

Telangana region of former Hyderabad state was willfully merged into rest of Telugu speaking areas of Madras state to create an United Andhra Pradesh state. It wasn't an occupation like Delhi sultanate's occupation and forced conversion of Telangana telugus. However T-vadis create this image of
- Dochukunnaru (if T-region is so backward for the 625 years of its history under muslim rule, what is there to rob?)
- Separate culture, history, language to the extent that they had to create a Telangana Talli (mother Telangana)
- Continuous harassment of settlers

If you look deeply you can see lot of similarities between KCR and Jinnah. Both appear nationalistic before the demand and become chauvinistic during the agitation. And we know what kind of Pakistan Jinnah created.

My calling out of Pakiness in the T-agitation is to remove that unnecessary thought stream. There is nothing wrong in having a separate T-state; based on national interests, a coherent national policy, just pursuit for betterment of the region, and a sense of brotherhood with rest of the population.

P.S: I wasn't calling anyone a Paki because it is like attaining Moksha (on the other extreme) for a Bharatiya. I am just pointing out the Pakiness; which exists in every living being.

P.P.S: What I said was "why becoming a Paki". There is a big difference between 'wanting' to become a paki and being a Paki.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Mar 2011 08:07

w.r.t the Seema people, T-vadis are usually talking about the Chenchus. the chenchus were never there in big numbers in Hyd before. under YSR, they were brought in for the specific purpose of creating a significant sized seema population in Hyd as a counterweight to T-movement and also b/c seema presence in Hyd was lacking compared to Andhra presence. the argument is that the present significant seema population is a very new development which was undertaken specifically to complicate an already complicated subject even more. and this isn't just vapid speculation. the seeming swell in the Chenchu population (most of whom are EJ'ised btw) in Hyd was a coordinated activity by YSR & Co to put a dent in T-movement.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Mar 2011 08:15

Isnt this border line racist?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Mar 2011 08:23

speaking of a coordinated and well planned out movement of a people who generally identify themselves as being part of their socio-cultural grouping is racist now??? the t-vadis didn't create the "group" feelings among chenchus (and I have nothing against them. i don't even know anyone belonging to the group personally). those feelings were already there and were masterfully manipulated and shown a path by a charismatic leader at the top. you want to blame somebody as racists then blame people like YSR (now dead) who used the community feeling of Chenchus and EJ'ism (which his own family is deeply involved in) to achieve his political goals specifically to complicate the Telangana/Hyd issue even more.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Mar 2011 09:15

This Chenchu thing is new to me. I am following this issue for some years and this is the first time any one said anything like this. Chechu people are tribals and I dont know why they want to migrate in huge no to Hyd city. Such huge influx I am sure would have created some serious problems. But I heard anything like that till date. Purhaps guruji can elabarate what he meant.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Mar 2011 09:28

the Chenchus, at least in Hyd, are mostly involved in hard labor. from what I gather, their economic/financial situation until 20 years ago was pretty bad. they are one of the tribal communities who haven't yet transitioned from old tribal living circumstances and therefore haven't been able to settle as farmers or other blue-collar workers until about the 90's. they migrated south from the Central AP forests to Seema for jobs, away from the tribal setting. anyway, before YSR, the chenchu community in Hyd was non-existent. during YSR's term, there was a massive influx of Chenchus into Hyd. they are identifiable b/c of Seema accent, just like Andhra accent and Telangana accent. also, the vast majority of them seem to be recently converted Christians (ideal prey for EJ's considering they lived in abject poverty or hunter-gatherer circumstances until the last generation). as an example, the Bagh Amberpet area in Hyd now has a considerable size of Chenchu population. and incidentally, the number of churches in the area went up rapidly since they started coming in. they are not yet financially rich enough to build all those churches by themselves. one must only look in the right places to figure out where the money came for all those churches.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 08 Mar 2011 09:39

devesh wrote:the Chenchus, at least in Hyd, are mostly involved in hard labor. from what I gather, their economic/financial situation until 20 years ago was pretty bad.

So the chenchus are not truly belonging there because they came in recently. Who else fits that category? Hyderabadis who speak Telugu with an Andhra or Seema accent? Will it be enforced if they dont want to leave Hyd. ?

Which T-leader has publicly assured the non-Telangana residents of Hyderabad that they should (not could, but should) continue to stay in Hyd. even after T formation?

During '47 partition, Gandhi/Nehru begged Muslims to stay back in India. No such voices are heard today in Hyd. , which is also India.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 08 Mar 2011 10:03

devesh wrote:what the hell....where do you get of calling me a Paki? for that matter since when did T-vadis become Pakis??? this is outrageous. so now, Andhraites console themselves by having delusions of Telangana movement being Paki???? your language is insufferable. and I strongly object to it. I also ask the mods to please look into the matter and judge whether calling the Telangana movement Pakified is justified or even acceptable.

Probably in RamaY's meaning of Paki denotes genocidal tendencies. See TRS vadis also speaking in same language, kicking the butt, occupying their lands, etc. and nobody in TRS dared to denounce these acts. Can you tell what will be the best behavior to describe these types of attitudes other than paki. If you have a synonymous to these types of behavior, specify it and it will be called with that name henceforth.

I am pondering with a question. If Telanganavadis want to decide their fate its okay, but what about the common property (Hyderabad) that had been developed over decades and they want all for it. I wish somebody would state an independent state for Hyderabad-Secunderabad-Medak region. Any how these folks wish to maintain their new found wealth with themselves. Definitely, it will water down the aggressiveness of Telangana moment, because they cannot fill their kitties quickly without Hyderabad.

Adder later. I do not know about the specific Chenchu migration to alter demographics like done by Chinese or Pakis. Probably it is more related to the recent real estate boom, which requires hard and cheap labour. Who can provide that amount of labour, while rest of the labour migration patterns are determined with harvesting, but Chenchus do not have that compulsion, because they are mostly nomads and dependent on forest product gatherings.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Mar 2011 11:22

this whole discussion started with RamaY calling T-vadis Pakis. regardless of what TRS/KCR are doing/saying, i don't support the idea that non-Telanganaites should be kicked out. all Indians have the right to go wherever they want inside India. that's a Constitutional Right. TRS' position on this is foolish at best and utterly nonsensical at worst.

as for he Chenchus, i didn't say the Chenchus didn't have a right to go wherever they wanted to go in India. nobody can stop anybody from coming to Hyderabad, nor should anybody try to do so. but i was specifically focusing on YSR and his cronies' actions. just b/c you all agree with united andhra does not mean what YSR did didn't have ulterior motives. or is it a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" policy?

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 08 Mar 2011 13:09

In recent days there is not so much economic disparity between the two regions. The long rule of Nizam and thuggish Razakars who frequently raided wealthy families and villages and frequent arsons and looting is main criteria for the development of socioeconomic indices. In those circumstances, there has been a built up of inertia for accumulation of wealth in Nizam region, because this will lead to unwarranted attention from parasitic communities. Though they were equally hard working, they had developed an attitude of earn and spend, rather than earn, spend and save attitude. The Independence has changed that attitude, but the attitude of investment has been catching up, still coastal people are ahead in this endeavor. It is wise to blame Nizam and razkars, rather than the seemandra people for their backwardness.

To know the thuggish and blood thirstiness of Nizam and Razkars please read Sri Dasrathi Rangacharya's books.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 08 Mar 2011 14:48

Telangana is a state to watch out in future india. An entire generation has been raised and made politically aware.

No Permission For Million March
The *governor* is in cahoots with andhra followed by the CM, the speaker, the HM, the police commissioner etc etc - the entire system of AP.

T leaders get ultimatum from farmers

Farmers of some Telangana districts on Sunday threw a challenge to leaders spearheading the T movement stating that they should either force the Centre to introduce a Bill in Parliament for a separate state or withdraw from the agitation and allow them to take the fight forward.

In the coming months, the political parties in T-state are going to become completely irrelevant in the agitation and then the agitation is going to gain a whole new level of intensity. The level of participation and organising skills displayed by the people is astounding and its a shame that the MSM has continued to ignore the developments in the region of telangana.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 08 Mar 2011 15:54

devesh wrote:this whole discussion started with RamaY calling T-vadis Pakis. regardless of what TRS/KCR are doing/saying, i don't support the idea that non-Telanganaites should be kicked out. all Indians have the right to go wherever they want inside India. that's a Constitutional Right. TRS' position on this is foolish at best and utterly nonsensical at worst.

Hallo hallo hallallo.......you need to talk to chaiwalas, paanwalas, mestris, plumbers, carpenters and other hardworking laborers in twin cities...I talked to all of them on Telangana issue and they all assured me that these mirchi bandi and idli bandi owners from Godavari Dists will be kicked out...and one welding machine owner went to an extent that they'll mobilize people with the slogan --- "Quit Telangana"..then I said what if an Andhra guy marries a Telangana girl...to which he responded angrily "Nuvvoddu nee pendlaam oddu"....after a cold drink....I again asked him..."Anna, Telangana should be formed without hate, if you compare Guntur Biryani with dog food and such...that'll only make seemaandhra folks angry and they'll block shipment of any goods like rice and other crop harvest passing through their region like what happened in J&K"...to which he said "we'll block Krishna and Godavari rivers"...my another friend of Telangana who was there listening to us intervened and said "manam munugutaam taata"....and to my utter shock...that T-Vadi of age 61...said "memu chastaam, mimlani champutaam"

now the essence of this post is not whats practical and whats not...the point is....no matter how much you talk about the so called "Constitutional Right" to live and do business anywhere in India will not go down well with T-Vadis....my intent is to identify where their emotions are taking them....and what KCR or Lagadapati says doesn't matter to me....what matters to me is what a common T-Vadi folks think...and it is disturbing....because they are public of future T state....

now Devesh Bhai...I personally support Telangana but not with this kind of "hate"...but unfortunately...aaam junta of Telangana seems to be nourishing this attitude under KCR and his goons leadership.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 08 Mar 2011 17:03

devesh wrote:the "aberration" of 1321-1948 is more than 625 years of history....

also, in your own post it is stated that Kakatiyas brought all Telugus under one rule for the first time after the Satavahanas. the Satavahana rule ended circa 200 CE. so we are talking about a 1000 year period before 1200's and a 625 year period from 1321. so, in the last 1800 years, united Telugu rule lasted only 175 years. 1800 minus 175 gives me 1625 years during which the Telugu provinces of Telangana were mostly separate from coastal Andhra.

that isn't an aberration. that's the general trend. the opposite, in fact, is the aberration.

Telagana as separate Telugu land started only after Nizam ceded both Circars and Rayalaseema (Circar is about 400 years old and RS name is about 100 years old)

Kakatiyas are Andhra kingdom. Those who fought for it are Telugus and no Telangana exists then or prior. Some of Telangana culture they talk about are actually Chola-Chalukya culture which are shared all regions. Some aspects stuck in one area but got reduced in another area. (for example Bathukamma festival which is celebrated for birth of Chola pricess of Vengi which is current day Rajamundry in Godavari districts).

Again refer the thread posts for references.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Mar 2011 18:16

Devesh,

I am not surprised you picking on the Paki comment leaving the entire discussion.

The whole discussion started with you (and of course T-vadis) picking and choosing the part of history that suits you best. In that process you are claiming a period of foreign rule as your history and culture. How unfortunate it is.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Mar 2011 20:04

The problem from Delhi angle is exactly this kind of ideas. Once you start and divide a state without majority acceptance then all kinds of other demands will be comming forward. For example if Jammu people start doing what KCR does and starts attacking muslims and blocking national highway to Kashmir vally demanding saparate statehood for Jammu then what will New Delhi do? The nature and extent of discrimination against Jammu people in J&K state is for for greater than anything faced by any Indian in India. The decades long genucide against Kashmiri Pandits is there before our eyes. What is the similarity between Ladakh and Kashmir Vally which is ruling the entire state. I think till date not even a single Ladakhi or Jammu person became CM of the state. Is G N Azad from Jammu? May be. But the power is fully in the pockets of Kashmir vally. Hardly any one other side vally gets governament jobs. Even the assembly seats are less in terms of population for Jammu and no redivision is being done even though entire country went through the same process in 2009 itself.

Now does any one has any justification say no for that demand for Jammu statehood? Other than that is exact Pakiland wants. Same thing goes to Ladakh. Similarly much better arguments than Telangana can be put forward for other demands like Gurkhaland which is pending since 1910. What about Vidharbha which is almost a desert and no one cares for it.

Does INC wants to open maltiple fronts at this time? There was no problem for creation of 3 states by ABV Govcernament because there were clear consent from every one and the entire areas divided are remote areas. Nothing like that is there now for Telangana.

What shall we do if we are sitting in Home Ministry? We want to open a Pandora Box ? Yet Telangana vadis do not want to see bigger picture and problems the decision makers at Delhi facing. They continue to tell people the Telangana is round the corner. May is it is true if the Sonia gang some how conviced it is profitable to them. So for the indications are they are afraid to touch this matter at least for the time being.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Mar 2011 20:40

forget stupid politics for some time and listen to Gajendra Moksham part of Bhagavatham translated into Telugu by Potana

http://en.srichaganti.net/GajendraMoksham.aspx

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Mar 2011 21:02

i'll try addressing each post one after another.

Venkarl:

I completely agree with what you said. to have a fratricidal conflict between Indians should not be the goal of Telangana movement. the root of this feeling is the feeling that union with Andhra has led to exploitation of Telangana area resources which are diverted to coastal Andhra (80% of Godavari and 70% of Krishna catchment areas lie in Telangana and yet lot of water from these areas is diverted to Andhra areas). as such the basic foundation of Andhra prosperity mostly has to do with rich agricultural land and delta regions like Konaseema which are even more fertile. the argument is let Telangana keep its share of water from the huge catchment areas. the Pulichintala project is a prime example of direct transfer of Water resources in Telangana to Coastal Andhra.

seriously, research the Pulichintala project and tell me how it is fair that Nagarjuna Sagar water is drawn to Krishna Delta for 365 days of the year. the original agreement itself was a farce, on top of that: originally it was supposed to draw 181 tmc, but now it is drawing 400 tmc of water for 365 days of the year, and you have politicians like Jagan and CBN and Lagadapati making grandstanding speeches about stopping farmer suicides. how will farmer suicides in Telangana stop when the basic resource of agriculture, WATER, is mercilessly drawn out from Telangana and into Andhra regions and to top it all off, every year there is excess water going to the Krishna Delta, and all that water is let out into the Bay of Bengal. Venkarl, you were talking about the old guy saying "mimmalini champutamu, memu chastam." the attitude is that we won't let you make use of water even if we have to die. the Andhra resource grab also exhibits a variation of this attitude: "we take extra knowing that there will be extra and knowing we'll have to waste it."

i'm sure for many of you guys the above is Pakified dhimminess b/c one dares to question Telangana's exploitation. the problem is that Telangana is exploited. the Seema+Andhra constituency is larger than Telangana and it is inevitable that these interests are put before Telangana interests. for any talk of United Andhra being anything more than an exploitative ploy to grab Telangana resources, there must first be debate of why huge amount of Telangana water is drawn to already rich and fertile delta regions of Coastal Andhra such as Krishna delta and Nellore.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Mar 2011 21:14

Any way why do you think water flows downhill?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Mar 2011 21:22

Devesh,

Let me present my POV and see if it makes sense.

There is nothing wrong in raising the issue of Telangana regional backwardness and demanding solutions to it. There is nothing wrong in seeking a separate state either. After all there are many ways to achieve administrative optimum in India and reorganization of states is one of the solutions.

There is 85 pages of debate in this thread, where people captured the statistics on Telangana growth based on where they started in 1947. Any T-backwardness up to 1947 lies solely with Nizam govt. All the growth in Telagana since 1950 goes to united AP state. All the growth in Andhra region prior to 1947 goes to geography and then British rule.

If one were to compare the growth patterns based on 1950 baseline, one can clearly see that Telangana region has grown at better pace than rest of the state in most indicators.

Farmer suicides are a function of lack of proper farm insurance, lack of water-resources, fake seeds, pests and many other unfortunate factors. Farmer suicides are happening across the state and must be addressed irrespective of Telangana issue. I do not understand how a separate Telangana state on its own stops farmer suicides.

We discussed the River water issue as well in previous pages. We all are in support of developing water security for Telangana region because it helps local population.

We even support a separate telangana state; but the criteria should be enhancing national interests, a national policy on reorganization of states and so on. Not some "invented" grievance.

That said, the following reasons/approach for a separate T-demand are nonsensical and will be called names such as Dhimmitude, Pakiness etc.,

- Separate history, language and culture
- Dochukunnaru (FYI - the Nizams sent Rs 20 crs during Pak formation and another Rs 20 cr during Indo-Pak war)
- Racism/Redicule
- Economic exploitation
- Intimidation

It is sad to note that you make very nationalistic observations in other threads/issues; but when it comes to Telangana you get swayed by emotions

***
Once we identify the real issues, motivations behind separate Telangana demand we can easily identify the solutions; one of them could as well be a separate Telangana state.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Mar 2011 21:29

ramana:

eh....are we living in the Dark Ages? there are ways to stop water from dissipating into low lying areas. there have been projects proposed under Nagarjuna Sagar dam to stop this flow into low lying areas and provide water for Telangana. The SLBC project is one such example. considerable money was to be allocated to the project but absolutely nothing has been done. areas in Nalgonda have been identified by AP state govt as drought prone and needing good water to relieve the abject poverty, yet the SLBC (which was proposed to combat that) was rejected b/c it takes Rs. 30 crore/annum to maintain. it is utterly duplicitous. AP govt spends thousands of crores on this project and that and yet the vast princely sum of Rs. 30 crore/annum scared the crap out of the leadership and bureaucrats.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Mar 2011 21:36

Let me tell you an open secret. Once the irrigation projects all come into stream Telangna will return to its primacy of the Satavahanas.

KCR and his gang want the separation before that happens in order to loot the people just as their forefathers did under the Nizam. And the vision, the resource mobilization at international level and the implementation of the irrigation projects is the dream of a transpalanted Andhra. So dont go there. I saw the vison being created in 1994.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 08 Mar 2011 21:37

devesh wrote:i'm sure for many of you guys the above is Pakified dhimminess b/c one dares to question Telangana's exploitation. the problem is that Telangana is exploited. the Seema+Andhra constituency is larger than Telangana and it is inevitable that these interests are put before Telangana interests. for any talk of United Andhra being anything more than an exploitative ploy to grab Telangana resources, there must first be debate of why huge amount of Telangana water is drawn to already rich and fertile delta regions of Coastal Andhra such as Krishna delta and Nellore.

Instead of making sweeping statements like "exploited," it would be great if you would have given examples. Its totally wrong that Seema+Andhra politicians acts like a single cohesive entity. Politicians of Kadapa would ensure that it will get more resources than rest of the state, ditto a politician from Kamamm would do, but only with varying success. Politicians of Kadapa would look after only for Kadapa, not for Anantapur or Vijayanagaram.

Please give proper examples where Telangana resources are being exploited. Barring four districts, WG, EG, Krishna and Gunter (KG basin); plight of farmers is same, from Anantapur to Adilabad. Though KG basin delta is rich is also more prone to seasonal inundation. Showing richness of these four districts as exploitation is unwise.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Mar 2011 21:46

RamaY:

Andhra development pre-1947 has mostly to do with good geography and fertile soil. not the British. good agricultural civilizations always develop b/c human activities are supported and nurtured by the availability of edible food. broadly speaking both India and China are examples b/c both countries have huge agri bases and therefore human civilization always thrived. in the West US is an example b/c of the Mississippi Inter-linking River System.

i have many andhraite friends and i don't go around wishing for some great armageddon on Andhra or other such non-sense. i also don't have the rabid hatred for Andhras that some sections of T-vadis do (yes, i agree, it exists). but i absolutely feel in my heart that Telangana is deliberately kept backward via transfer of resources. i am very passionate about the issue b/c i feel it.

as for the Nizams, the abject wretchedness of their behavior is well documented. the Nizam was the richest man in the world in the 19th century; richer even than Rockefeller. one must only wonder where all that money came from. in accounting for the state of modern Telangana, the Nizams had much to do, and this issue should be highlighted. this is where KCR/TRS fail most spectacularly. but the past 60 years post-Nizam period cannot be ignored.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 08 Mar 2011 21:50

devesh wrote:80% of Godavari and 70% of Krishna catchment areas lie in Telangana and yet lot of water from these areas is diverted to Andhra areas

This is completely wrong, one of the talking points of pro-Telangana group. Please give me reference for that one quote.

Btw, calculate the cost of pumping of water 1200ft up the plateau; Since Godavari and Krishna flow around that level down from the Deccan Plateau.

Imagine operating a borewell 1200 ft deep and irrigating the field.

In fact we are better paying the farmers Rs5000/10000 per year per acre instead of wasting that money building expensive LIFT irrigation projects.

Search Google for the "Devadula project" and check the amount spent by GoAP for that. Now they don't have power to operate it....

Added later: Check my post on Page 39 of this thread