Indian Naval Discussion

maz · Post by **maz** » 12 Mar 2011 04:46

Austin, regardless of Mil Parade ads of Dehli with VL Shtil, if you follow the other posts, it is Barak 8 that is likely to be fitted to all principal surface combatants.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but vendors use the technique of superimposing their systems on platforms as a marketing gimmick. case in point; all along we thought that new Teg class would have VL Shtil but not really.

Besides, the Barak 8/LRSAM looks to be a vastly more capable system in comparison to the Shtil system. A cursory look at their specs should tell you this.

It will be interesting to watch what major upgrades the Delhi's get over the next 3-5 years once barak 8/LRSAM is operational. i.e whether MF STAR/ LRSAM will be used or LRSAM integrated with Fregat. I'd imagine that the P-15's will be upgraded to P-15A/B standard with a new mast arrangement housing the MF STAR.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 12 Mar 2011 08:12

Indian National Shipowners Association want Naval personnel on- board ships to deter piracy

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Mar 2011 11:20

shiny new helicopters to replace the aeging Kamovs and SeaKings would be good fleetwide - EC725/NH90 types. arm them with Harpoon-II ASMs.

the IN has presented a plan to rescue indian hostages from multiple ships anchored off the somali coast to the CCS and legal and risk aspects being looked into. the soko marine rescue was also discussed.

so with pressure mounting not to abandon these indians held for over a year, something is done I hope with simultaneous rescue ops and a pounding of the luxury villas of the pirate lords up and down the coast.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Mar 2011 11:40

maz wrote:Austin, regardless of Mil Parade ads of Dehli with VL Shtil, if you follow the other posts, it is Barak 8 that is likely to be fitted to all principal surface combatants.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but vendors use the technique of superimposing their systems on platforms as a marketing gimmick. case in point; all along we thought that new Teg class would have VL Shtil but not really.

Well relax maz ,I just said what I saw ( it was certainly an advertorial ) and looks like a logical upgrade to increase capability keeping cost effectiveness and capability in mind.

No doubt Barak-8 is vastly more capable and as such a very expensive system if you take the entire suite of AESA2248/Barak-8/CMS.

I have my doubts any of the existing ships would get a Barak-8 upgrade, it would cost then a big amount in upgrading the superstructure to accommodate the Elta Radar and Missile and then integrate with existing CMS , it costs them money and for ships that spent a decade and half of its life at sea and equal amount left it would boil down to cost effectiveness. ( I wont be surprised if Barak-8/AESA/CMS would cost 20-30 % of new ship total cost )

Barak-8 would certainly come on newer ships like P-15A ,P-15B and P-17A , since these are new ships it justifies the cost of new expensive and capable system.

If ever Delhi , P-17 and Talwar/Tej will get an upgrade of their system it would be incremental upgrade like Brahmos and VLS Shtil-1 , atleast experience has shown IN is not a great believer of radically upgrading their ships during MLU and conservatively opts for incremental upgrades.

If I am proven wrong , I owe you a beer

srai · Post by **srai** » 13 Mar 2011 05:43

Austin wrote:
maz wrote:Austin, regardless of Mil Parade ads of Dehli with VL Shtil, if you follow the other posts, it is Barak 8 that is likely to be fitted to all principal surface combatants.

...
...
No doubt Barak-8 is vastly more capable and as such a very expensive system if you take the entire suite of AESA2248/Barak-8/CMS.

I have my doubts any of the existing ships would get a Barak-8 upgrade, it would cost then a big amount in upgrading the superstructure to accommodate the Elta Radar and Missile and then integrate with existing CMS , it costs them money and for ships that spent a decade and half of its life at sea and equal amount left it would boil down to cost effectiveness. ( I wont be surprised if Barak-8/AESA/CMS would cost 20-30 % of new ship total cost )

Barak-8 would certainly come on newer ships like P-15A ,P-15B and P-17A , since these are new ships it justifies the cost of new expensive and capable system.

If ever Delhi , P-17 and Talwar/Tej will get an upgrade of their system it would be incremental upgrade like Brahmos and VLS Shtil-1 , atleast experience has shown IN is not a great believer of radically upgrading their ships during MLU and conservatively opts for incremental upgrades.

...

IMO, part of the reason why IN has opted for incremental upgrades in the past has been due to the availability of principal ships and weapon systems available. A major sensor and weapon upgrade will pretty much keep the ship out of commission for at least 2 years (refit, testing etc). Historically, IN has had only a few principal combat ships and so a major upgrade (length of refit as well as given weapon systems available at that time vs what it already had on the ships) that did not considerably improve its combat effectiveness did not make sense.

But with Barak-8 (with IN having co-developed it), IN significantly improves P-15 class's Air Defense capability over its current Shitl SAM system. Once the IN receives 3 P-15A with Barak-8 and extends 5 Kashin-II DDG's retirement by a few years, IN will have the flexibility to go for a major refit of P-15 class between 2014-2018. Starting around 2016/7, IN will also be receiving the first of 4 P-15B and 7 P-17A classes on order.

The only upgrade out of the question are the ship's engines (and to most degree, its internals), but weapons and related sensors are up for debate, especially if one that is available significantly improves the ships combat effectiveness.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 14 Mar 2011 16:58

Another shot of Vik from last week. Anybody knows what type of radar is on top of that aft mast?

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 14 Mar 2011 17:05

^^^^ snaik as always thanks for the pic looks like fregat m???

John · Post by **John** » 14 Mar 2011 17:08

Too large to be half plate? could be Podberezovik.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 14 Mar 2011 17:18

John wrote:Too large to be half plate? could be Podberezovik.

I think you are right John...looks a tad small for a fregat
http://www.concern-agat.com/products/de ... ezovik-et2

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2011 18:13

Snaik mentioned on another board it was ET1

http://www.concern-agat.com/products/de ... ezovik-et1
http://www.smp-salyut.ru/images/list/podr.pdf

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 14 Mar 2011 20:16

No, I mean the one which is under the cover on the aft mast, not on the island. I know that the ones on island are Podberiozovik ET-1 and Fregat M2EM.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2011 20:23

SNaik can you clarify from the pictures posted above , the one below the Fregat in a cylindrical mast exist which type of radar ?
And the one under the white bulbous cover what is the kind of radar it holds ?

Thanks

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 14 Mar 2011 20:33

Austin wrote:SNaik can you clarify from the pictures posted above , the one below the Fregat in a cylindrical mast exist which type of radar ?
And the one under the white bulbous cover what is the kind of radar it holds ?

Thanks

The cylinder is Rezistor-K landing system. The one under the bulb - that's what I'm asking about myself.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2011 20:44

SNaik wrote:The one under the bulb - that's what I'm asking about myself.

If I have to hazard a guess , Since the bulb is next to what looks like Ajanta ESM system , I would say thats a multichannel high bandwidth satellite communication system or a powerful satellite jammer inside the bulb.

negi · Post by **negi** » 14 Mar 2011 21:00

Too much is being read into the 'incremental upgrade' thingy the fact is when the KrivakIII design was frozen there was no VL-Shtil on the horizon it's as simple as that. Heck even Chinis are slow on VL-Shtils for most of their existing fleet has Crotale copies and mix bhaji of Rif-M and HQ-9.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 14 Mar 2011 21:12

negi wrote:Too much is being read into the 'incremental upgrade' thingy the fact is when the KrivakIII design was frozen there was no VL-Shtil on the horizon it's as simple as that. Heck even Chinis are slow on VL-Shtils for most of their existing fleet has Crotale copies and mix bhaji of Rif-M and HQ-9.

10 hulls in 5 years isn't exactly "slow".

negi · Post by **negi** » 14 Mar 2011 21:15

^ How many with VL-Shtil were in PLAN service when INS Talwar was commissioned ?

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 14 Mar 2011 21:16

negi wrote:^ How many with VL-Shtil were in PLAN service when INS Talwar was commissioned ?

None

John · Post by **John** » 14 Mar 2011 21:21

negi wrote:Too much is being read into the 'incremental upgrade' thingy the fact is when the KrivakIII design was frozen there was no VL-Shtil on the horizon it's as simple as that. Heck even Chinis are slow on VL-Shtils for most of their existing fleet has Crotale copies and mix bhaji of Rif-M and HQ-9.

Actually Krivak III Upg frigate design with VL-Shtil was shown off a while back modifying Krivak for Brahmos would have been bigger challenge than integrating Vl-shtil, so i don't think it was $$ or complexity the reason it was left out.

It seems like IN doesn't want VL-Shtil or any other Russian sam system and will keep Shtil-1 for time being, IIRC IN did not want Vl-shtil or Kashtan in Vikramaditya either while the Russians insisted on their inclusion.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2011 21:51

SAM is one domain which Russia is in process of losing completely in India - IA is going for sypder, akash and barak. IN is going for barak1 and barak8. drdo & mbda is also going ahead with maitri.

likewise in ATGM , javelin, milan2T and nag seem to have in favour...with hellfire or spike likely soon.

negi · Post by **negi** » 14 Mar 2011 22:06

John a few years back someone had posted a Jane's article on keypublishing with CGs of VL-Shtil on Sovremenny class but I don't think that materialized (Austin should know

), my point was when IN finalized the design was VL-Shtil even available (I don't think so) ?

narmad · Post by **narmad** » 14 Mar 2011 22:22

First Scorpene submarine from Mazagaon to roll out in 2015
New Delhi, Mar 14 (PTI) The delivery of the first Scorpene submarine under Project-75 to the Indian Navy has been put off till second half of 2015, Parliament was informed today.

John · Post by **John** » 14 Mar 2011 22:48

negi wrote:John a few years back someone had posted a Jane's article on keypublishing with CGs of VL-Shtil on Sovremenny class but I don't think that materialized (Austin should know ), my point was when IN finalized the design was VL-Shtil even available (I don't think so) ?

Yes VL-Shtil was available when Talwar II/Teg contract was signed on 2006 (in fact there was some design changes later on due to Brahmos).

Chinese launched first of 054A Frigate with license produced VL-Shtil around that time. So i would suspect VL-Shtil was available as early as 2004?

maz · Post by **maz** » 15 Mar 2011 00:20

I am guessing that the bulb like radome on the deck mounted mast could be a TACAN.

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/i ... del_lg.jpg

and

http://www.naval.com.br/blog/wp-content ... -final.jpg

http://pilot.strizhi.info/photos/v/Gors ... m.jpg.html

http://pilot.strizhi.info/wp-content/up ... 166_sm.jpg

http://kombrig20.homestead.com/Gorshkov.html

saip · Post by **saip** » 15 Mar 2011 07:31

CNN claims that Indian Naval Patrol has captured 61 Somali Pirates and freed 13 crewmen after exchange of fire. Now the question is what does India do with these Pirates? Previously also India has captured some pirates and brought them to Bombay. What did it do with them? Is India by playing an important role exposing its merchant sailors to increased risk?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... l?hpt=Sbin

nits · Post by **nits** » 15 Mar 2011 09:49

We will just end feeding them for years to come...

Also one question which trouble me is - Say our court serves them 5 Years in Jail; after 5 years where do they go...? do we escort them back to Somalia or they become one of many migrants...

Ajit.C · Post by **Ajit.C** » 15 Mar 2011 10:06

http://gulfnews.com/news/world/india/in ... s-1.777011

Have attached the news in Gulf news, with picture of Heli Deck of Tabar with the pirates.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Mar 2011 11:40

The answer to the pirate problem is to help Somalia rebuild its society. Unless it can be done the problem will remain. If Soamlia cannot be brought under the control of a stable government, then, the only answer may be to revert to the 16th, 17th, 18th centurey, treatment of the pirates. Ie, execute them after a summary trial on the ship that captured them.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Mar 2011 12:00

John wrote:Yes VL-Shtil was available when Talwar II/Teg contract was signed on 2006 (in fact there was some design changes later on due to Brahmos).

I think the only reason why the IN opted for Single Arm launcher over VLS Shtil-1 is to maintain standardisation with fleet wide Shtil SAM and its launcher , considering a significant portion of IN capital ships now uses Shtil SAM ,an increase in launch rates ( and cost ) was not considered a worth trade off although no doubt the VLS option would have been available and so was Kashtan-M system which was dropped over AK-630/Barak-1 combo for larger standardisation advantage { Jingos and Professional would think and work differently }

This is something I found on VLS Shtil from Janes 2004

Russia moves to vertical-launch Shtil
Miroslav Gyürösi

Russia is offering a vertical-launch (VL) version of the Shtil-1 naval surface-to-air missile (SAM) system, writes Miroslav Gyürösi. The move from a system based on trainable launchers to one based on below-deck VL modules is similar to that taken by the US Navy in the mid-1980s when it switched from a Mk 26 trainable launcher to a VL system for the sixth and subsequent Ticonderoga-class Aegis cruisers.

Russian Public Joint Stock Company DNPP (Dolgoprudnenskoye naucsno - proizvodstvennoye predpriyatie), which is part of the Almaz-Antey Air Defence Concern, developed the new 9M317ME SAM as an upgrade for the Shtil-1 naval air-defence system. Developed by the Altair Naval Radio Electronics Scientific Institute Public Joint Stock Company, which is also a member of the Almaz-Antey Air Defence Concern, Shtil-1 is an improved version of the earlier Shtil system that is the export variant of the M-22 Uragan system fitted to the Project 956 (Sovremenny-class) destroyers.

The 9M38 missile was developed in the 1970s to be a common round for the land-based 9K37 Buk (SA-11 'Gadfly') and naval Uragan/Shtil (SA-N-7 'Gadfly') system. It used a configuration similar to that of the US Standard Missile, with cruciform wings of long chord and short span, plus cruciform tail surfaces. In the land-based system, the 9M38 was fired from 9A38 and 9A310 self-propelled launch vehicles, while the naval Shtil and Shtil-1 systems used a trainable launcher fed by a below-deck loading system based on 12-cell drum magazines.

In the early 1990s, development started on an improved 9M317 missile able to replace the 9M38. This armed the Buk-M1-2 (SA-17 'Grizzly') system, which entered service with the Russian Army in 1998. The 9M317 was similar in configuration to the 9M38 but the cruciform wings were of much smaller chord and span.

The new 9M317ME missile is being marketed as a further development of the older 9M38 and 9M317 but the changes are on a scale that makes the round almost a new missile. It is designed to be fired from a cylindrical container/launcher mounted in a cell within the new Shtil-1 VL system. This arrangement provides a much higher rate of fire than the original trainable launcher and magazine system used in Shtil and Shtil-1. The latter could fire a missile every six seconds, but the 9M317ME-based system being offered for Sovremenny-class destroyers can fire rounds at one-to-two-second intervals.

The new launch technique has required drastic changes to the configuration of the missile. The long-chord wings have been replaced by vestigial fixed surfaces located not on the missile centrebody but near the rear of the airframe just ahead of the cruciform tail surfaces. These fixed surfaces may be intended to control the airflow passing the tail fins. The latter move to steer the missile - the same control scheme used on the 9M38 - but are folded to allow the round to be stored in the container/launcher.

The 9M317ME is 5.18 m long and 360 mm in diameter. The tail surfaces have a span of 820 mm when deployed.

After the round leaves the VL, a spring mechanism unfolds the tail surfaces and four gas-control vanes operating in the motor efflux turn the missile towards the required direction of flight. Once this turnover manoeuvre is completed, the gas-control vanes are no longer used. Subsequent flight control is via the moving tail surfaces.

A dual-mode solid-propellant rocket motor based on a more energetic charge than that used in the 9M38 provides the missile with a maximum speed of Mach 4.5 (1,550 m/s), a significant increase over the Mach 3.0 (1,230 m/s) of the older missile.

Guidance remains a combination of inertial and semi-active radar (SAR) homing. Inertial guidance is used in the early stages of flight and then the SAR seeker is activated to complete the interception. If the missile is being fired against long-range targets, it can receive mid-course updates while flying under inertial control. Launch weight of the 9M317ME is 581 kg. It is armed with a 62 kg warhead initiated by a dual-mode (active or semi-active) radar proximity fuze, or a contact fuze.

The range of the modernised Shtil-1 system is between 3.5-32 km, while the altitude coverage is from 5 m up to 15 km. These limits are set not by the performance of the missile but by the capabilities of the existing shipboard illuminating radars. This suggests further growth potential if the system is upgraded or if new radars are added.

The VL version of Shtil-1 is being offered for surface ships with displacement of more than 1,500 tonnes, providing protection against aircraft, helicopters, fast patrol boats and anti-ship missiles. It can also control the ship's guns. Publicly, no claims are being made for an anti-ballistic missile (ABM) capability, but the land-based 3M317 missile is reported to have successfully engaged Smerch artillery rockets and a ballistic missile during tests conducted in the mid-1990s. The VL system's ability to cope with tactical ballistic-missile threats may be limited by the performance of the existing shipboard radars.

The basic VL module contains 12 9M317ME missiles but, as with the unmodified Shtil and Shtil-1 systems, the upgrade is being offered in a series of optional configurations, which add greater numbers of MR-90 Orekh ('Front Dome') target-illumination radars and additional VL modules. All variants use target information from the ship's 3D surveillance radar.

Vertical-launch Shtil-1 configurations

Technical characteristic Option number
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Reaction time, [seconds] 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10 5 - 10
Firing interval [seconds] 2 - 3 2 - 3 2 - 3 1 - 2 1 - 2 1 - 2 1 - 2 1 - 2
Number of target channels 2 4 4 6 8 8 10 12
Magazine capacity [rounds] 12 24 36 48 - 72 72 108 108 - 144 144
Number of VL modules 1 2 3 4 - 6 6 9 9 - 12 12

The new 9M317ME missile is a near-wingless design.

negi · Post by **negi** » 15 Mar 2011 14:51

John VL-Shtil as a naval ADS was only unveiled formally in EURO-NAVAL 2004, the testing itself concluded in 2006. Brahmos's ASH was already in service with the IN (we were already testing the land attack version in 2004) and keel laying for second phase of modified Krivak III class started much later. Same is the reason for Shivalik class not being armed with Barhmos (keel was laid down in 2001 itself).

VL-Shtil --pvo.guns.ru/naval

Austin the missile rounds used by the Shtil-1 (9m317) are different from 9M38 used by the Shtil on board Delhi class.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Mar 2011 15:54

^^ Yes but they use the same launcher , Shtil-1 has more energetic propellant but AFAIK there is no dimensional change in missile , one can hardly differentiate visually a Shtil from Shtil-1.

The VLS Shtil-1 though has only rear control surfaces , I just wonder if thats good enough to manouver the missile in absence of thrust vectoring control or other control surfaces.

nits · Post by **nits** » 15 Mar 2011 16:25

Why India and its navy must venture into open seas

Whether it was helping Mauritius operate a Coast Guard, strengthening Sri Lanka's ability to control its waters, or improving the ability of Mozambique, Madagascar and Maldives to monitor their maritime domain, India has taken a number of steps.

This somewhat ad hoc policy has included the recent transfer of ships to Seychelles, Maldives and Mauritius. To realize its true potential as a security provider in the Indian Ocean, Delhi needs to develop a comprehensive programme for security assistance.

This involves the development of a range of policy instruments including transfer of arms, financial resources and production capacities to match the growing demand for military cooperation with India, and devising frameworks for intelligence sharing, and stationing of Indian military personnel in significant numbers.

John · Post by **John** » 15 Mar 2011 17:07

negi wrote:John VL-Shtil as a naval ADS was only unveiled formally in EURO-NAVAL 2004, the testing itself concluded in 2006. Brahmos's ASH was already in service with the IN (we were already testing the land attack version in 2004) and keel laying for second phase of modified Krivak III class started much later. Same is the reason for Shivalik class not being armed with Barhmos (keel was laid down in 2001 itself).

VL-Shtil --pvo.guns.ru/naval

Austin the missile rounds used by the Shtil-1 (9m317) are different from 9M38 used by the Shtil on board Delhi class.

Just because the missile was not available till 2004 doesn't mean IN would not have chosen that for Teg, for example Barak-8 were chosen for P-15A even when the missile wasn't tested till recently. Brahmos was ready but the universal launcher for Teg will be completely new. Also IN had asked for exclusion of Vl-shtil and Kashtan in Vikramaditya.

Austin Standardization would make sense but for a launcher?, we are not talking about hot launch vls cells but simple cold launch mechanism. IMO i think there is some politics behind it (China).

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 15 Mar 2011 17:18

Is VL Shtil real? I believe it was conceptualized but never developed. No connection to HQ-16 was ever provided. Orekh radars on chinese ships may indicate common seeker but not common missile.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Mar 2011 17:35

John wrote:Austin Standardization would make sense but for a launcher?, we are not talking about hot launch vls cells but simple cold launch mechanism. IMO i think there is some politics behind it (China).

Well why not , it boils down to the money you put viz a viz capability you get , the IN thinks the Single Arm launcher is good enough to do the job and provides fleet wide standardisation , A VLS Shtil-1 that does not go with Single Arm Launcher would provide no benefit for the rest of fleet that uses those launcher , what has politics to do with it , both navies operated a number of russian weapons thats common to them.

John · Post by **John** » 15 Mar 2011 17:59

tsarkar wrote:Is VL Shtil real? I believe it was conceptualized but never developed. No connection to HQ-16 was ever provided. Orekh radars on chinese ships may indicate common seeker but not common missile.

The HQ-16 launcher looks similar to model of VL-Shtil launcher and it was widely speculated that it is license produced variant.

Austin, if china has funded development of Vl-shtil and are mass producing a local variant. That would reason enough not to procure it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Mar 2011 19:00

John wrote:Austin, if china has funded development of Vl-shtil and are mass producing a local variant. That would reason enough not to procure it.

Not to procure it and why so ? If russia funds some weapons both buy the same export model and if VL Shtil is available for export how does it matter who has initially funded it ?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 16 Mar 2011 05:46

INS Shivalik arrives in Visakhapatnam

INS Shivalik, India's first indigenous stealth frigate, and the latest induction into the Indian Navy, arrived at Visakhapatnam today after being commissioned at Mazagon Docks Limited, Mumbai by the Union Defence Minister A K Antony in April last year.

INS Shivalik, which will now form part of the Eastern fleet under the Eastern Naval Command, was accorded a warm reception by senior officers of the command and families of the crew on its arrival at Visakhapatnam.

Shivalik, is the first of the multi-role project 17 stealth frigates being built for the Indian Navy. Conceived and designed by Indian naval design teams, Shivalik class would be the mainstay frigates of the Indian Navy over the first half of the 21st century, a release from the Navy said.

The 143-metre long vessel, with 6,100 tonne displacement and width of 17 meters, is capable of doing speeds of over 30 knots (55 kmph). The inbuilt structural, thermal and acoustic stealth features of the warship effectively reduce the probability of detection by the enemy and augment the capability to counter threats from all dimensions of maritime warfare, the release said.

A combat management system controls the Weapon-Sensor fit and allows seamless integration within the ship as also with the suites of the other fleet ships.

The ship also boasts of a Total Atmospheric Control System providing total defence against nuclear, biological and chemical attack.

INS Shivalik is commanded by captain MD Suresh, a navigation direction (ND) specialist, and manned by a crew of about 35 Officers and 250 sailors.

With a potent weapon suite along with two multi-role helicopters on board for enhanced surveillance and attack, this 'Jewel of the Eastern Fleet' has the ability to detect and engage surface, air and sub-surface targets at extended ranges, making it a veritable 'brahmastra' waiting to be unleashed, the release added.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 16 Mar 2011 06:02

Govt May Allow Armed Guards on Merchant Ships

negi · Post by **negi** » 16 Mar 2011 08:50

John wrote: Just because the missile was not available till 2004 doesn't mean IN would not have chosen that for Teg, for example Barak-8 were chosen for P-15A even when the missile wasn't tested till recently.

That's an incorrect analogy firstly VL-Shtil and Barak 8 are in different league i.e. former as a system is basically a Shtil-1 with VLS while latter is pretty much a next generation missile with a modern FCR . Secondly and more importantly both Barak8 and Project15A are being run in house by the IN hence there is more visibility and certainty around how these are coming up as compared to something which was just on brochures in 2004.Finally as I see things the whole point behind ordering the modified KrivakIII from Russia was to maintain fleet strength as the domestic yards were taking long time to build ships so it is obvious that RU might have pushed for it's own sub-systems in order to meet the deadline as well as the budget.

Brahmos was ready but the universal launcher for Teg will be completely new. Also IN had asked for exclusion of Vl-shtil and Kashtan in Vikramaditya.

Boss BRAHMOS UVLM (specially the 8 cell cluster) has been in IN service for quite some time now afaik INS Ranvir has it.