China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Bihanga · Post by **Bihanga** » 02 Mar 2011 18:44

Chinese should also train Rats, as they will not only serve good Messengers but also healthy Tunnel builders who can use this tunnels to get their messeage across.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 04 Mar 2011 12:06

Pakistan building colony for Chinese in PoK
Posting in full

In an indication of Beijing’s strengthening ties with Islamabad, Pakistan is constructing a colony of about 20 buildings for Chinese workers in Chattar area of occupied Kashmir’s Muzaffarabad district.

The construction, confirmation of which comes ahead of prime minister Manmohan Singh’s Beijing visit in April for a meeting to welcome South Africa into the Brazil, Russia, India and China (BRIC) group, will ensure a permanent footprint for China very close to India.

Highly-placed intelligence sources told DNA the settlement was being built on approximately four acres for Chinese workers involved in construction activities in the region.

Last year, New Delhi had objected to reported presence of 11,000 People’s Liberation Army (PLA) of China personnel in the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK). The ministry of external affairs had said it would seek independent verification of PLA soldiers working on a project in the region which would give China rail and road access to the Gulf to transport cargo and oil.

Other reported construction activities in the region include extension of the Karakoram highway to link China’s Xinjiang autonomous province with Pakistan, dams and expressways.

Experts in New Delhi said by increasing presence in the Gilgit-Baltistan area, China was adding to the strategic threats in Leh-Kargil. They said this would necessitate greater attention to development of infrastructure in the sector and a review of New Delhi’s interactions with the nationalist elements in Xinjiang and Gilgit-Baltistan.

Indian Army’s Srinagar-based commanding officer lieutenant general SA Hasnain had last month ruled out any immediate troop cut in the Kashmir valley, saying terror launch pads and camps were still active in PoK.

kit · Post by **kit** » 04 Mar 2011 12:37

When an opportunity to strike comes,India should take out all those buildings and infrastructure from the word go . Brahmos would be ideal.Remember Serbia and the listening post China had.The US took it out and issued an apology.India should do the same.Whatever chinese that stay in POK should be dead and gone.

jai · Post by **jai** » 04 Mar 2011 15:35

Kailash wrote:Pakistan building colony for Chinese in PoK

[/quote]

Talk about operating with impunity and muted Indian responses. GOI has been forever running 'Independent Verifications".

The Pakis and Chinese might as well invite MMS for the opening

rsharma · Post by **rsharma** » 04 Mar 2011 16:22

jai wrote:
Kailash wrote:Pakistan building colony for Chinese in PoK

Talk about operating with impunity and muted Indian responses. GOI has been forever running 'Independent Verifications".

The Pakis and Chinese might as well invite MMS for the opening

[/quote]

Don't be too surprised if MMS actually accepts..

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 04 Mar 2011 19:49

Kailash wrote:Pakistan building colony for Chinese in PoK

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 04 Mar 2011 22:01

Kailash wrote:Pakistan building colony for Chinese in PoK

These could very well be full time PLA soldiers. Is it now safe to assume that we will have to deal with a mix Paki-Chinese thrust in case of war from both the East and the West?

Come to think of it, these latest developments suggest that there might be a bigger game plan at work here. A long term plan to establish Chinese "colonies" in POK before a full fledged attack from both sides.

The least GOI can do is make some noise...

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 06 Mar 2011 02:09

Vidoe of China Long March 5 rocket engine on testing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_March_5

Long March 5 (LM-5, CZ-5, or Changzheng 5) is a Chinese next-generation heavy lift launch system that is currently under development by China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology (CALT). Currently, six CZ-5 vehicle configurations[1] are planned for different missions, with a maximum payload capacity of 25,000 kg to LEO and 14,000 kg to GTO. The Long March 5 will have the second largest "carrying capacity factor" of any rocket after Boeing's Delta IV Heavy.[2] The CZ-5 rocket is due to be first launched in 2014 from Wenchang Satellite Launch Center on Hainan island.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Mar 2011 03:11

Kailash wrote:Pakistan building colony for Chinese in PoK

this is yet another 'tactical brilliance' by TSPA. before long it will come back to bite them in the a**.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 06 Mar 2011 03:34

Kailash wrote:Pakistan building colony for Chinese in PoK
Posting in full

<snip>

Last year, New Delhi had objected to reported presence of 11,000 People’s Liberation Army (PLA) of China personnel in the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK). The ministry of external affairs had said it would seek independent verification of PLA soldiers working on a project in the region which would give China rail and road access to the Gulf to transport cargo and oil.

Other reported construction activities in the region include extension of the Karakoram highway to link China’s Xinjiang autonomous province with Pakistan, dams and expressways.

Experts in New Delhi said by increasing presence in the Gilgit-Baltistan area, China was adding to the strategic threats in Leh-Kargil. They said this would necessitate greater attention to development of infrastructure in the sector and a review of New Delhi’s interactions with the nationalist elements in Xinjiang and Gilgit-Baltistan.

Indian Army’s Srinagar-based commanding officer lieutenant general SA Hasnain had last month ruled out any immediate troop cut in the Kashmir valley, saying terror launch pads and camps were still active in PoK.

The bolded blue lines indicate

(why is ND reactive and not proactive)

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Mar 2011 04:28

India should declare as first strike if chinese debris hit any of our satellites, and immediately launch our anti-sat second strikes.

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 06 Mar 2011 05:16

SaiK wrote:India should declare as first strike if chinese debris hit any of our satellites, and immediately launch our anti-sat second strikes.

Allow me to demonstrate how that is going to play out...

MMS: Our satellite just got hit by Chinese space debris......Call the Chinese ambassador immediately! While you're at it, tell the media that we will take STRONG action against this Chinese provocation!

Chinese Ambassador: We sorry, we do nothing wrong......your crappy satellite malfunction...

MMS: Argghhh!! Call Om Baba! Tell him that he must take action against the Chinese!

Om Baba: We must work together to prevent weaponization of space...We must work together to prevent weaponization of space....We must work together to prevent weaponization of space....

MMS: Yes, Now I feel much better...we are secured again....time to deal with the opposition now...

SDREs : Umm....what just happened to my TV? no signal????

The End...

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 06 Mar 2011 05:44

Sourab - play out what NDA PM what do too while you're at it.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 06 Mar 2011 09:31

After Beijing Sends a Frigate to the Med, a Leading Author Poses a Chilling Question... How Long Until a Chinese Aircraft Carrier Sails Up the Thames ?

Daily Mail.co.uk

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 06 Mar 2011 13:19

Juggi G wrote:After Beijing Sends a Frigate to the Med, a Leading Author Poses a Chilling Question... How Long Until a Chinese Aircraft Carrier Sails Up the Thames ?

Daily Mail.co.uk

They are simply making unwanted noise for retain Aircraft Carriers.
China may build 2 AC's not more than that, because technology limits them build AC fast like Destroyers or Subs.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 06 Mar 2011 18:41

Internal security tops military spending

China projected bigger spending on internal security than on defense in 2011–after spending more last year too–as the government tightens physical and technological controls to quash calls for a “Jasmine Revolution” like the one shaking the Arab world.

On the first day of the annual meeting of China’s legislature, a Finance Ministry budget report showed that actual spending on law and order last year was 548.6 billion yuan ($83.5 billion), slightly more than what was budgeted for the year.
That compared with officially reported military expenditure of 533.5 billion yuan ($81.2 billion) in 2010.

The same report showed that spending this year on police, state security, armed civil militia, courts and jails would total 624.4 billion yuan ($95 billion), an increase of 13.8% over 2010.
China’s 2011 military budget, by comparison, is 601.1 billion ($91.5 billion), representing a rise of 12.7% over last year, a government spokesman announced Friday.
That means that China’s internal security spending is growing faster than its defense spending.

The increase in the headline figure for law and order reflects Chinese leaders’ concerns about the potential for the kind of unrest which has racked the Middle East and North Africa over the last month, analysts say.
It is also likely to reinforce concerns among some Chinese scholars that China’s immense internal security apparatus is diverting funds away from welfare and other public services that might address the root causes of social unrest.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 06 Mar 2011 19:29

Rahul M wrote: this is yet another 'tactical brilliance' by TSPA. before long it will come back to bite them in the a**.

Exactly my thoughts too. But in this particular case, what is bad for Pakistan is bad for India too.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 06 Mar 2011 20:15

Kailash wrote:
Rahul M wrote: this is yet another 'tactical brilliance' by TSPA. before long it will come back to bite them in the a**.
Exactly my thoughts too. But in this particular case, what is bad for Pakistan is bad for India too.

Problem with TSPA is they always seek refuge in someones arms, first it was US then it's China. And like an obedient wife surrenders its body and soul to her unfaithful husband.

Time will come when TSPA and China's interests will conflict, say a border dispute resolution between Indian and China.

Then what? They will again get dumped and will blame everything on India.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 06 Mar 2011 20:19

Split TSP and there will be no TSP.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 06 Mar 2011 22:27

China is showing its superpower ambitions , it had been working upon since 1950s.And everyday its defence spending rises, they have some problems in certain technological areas but they are closing in very fast.

Once Nato withdraws, its next attention will India. Right now they are simply doing the ground work for their great game , .
And of course TSP is playing its usual role as a middleman . It knows the purpose of its creation , and certainly China had assured them that it will give them a bigger role in SA ,and more money.

Only a determined and more realistic leadership can win this great game imposed upon us from all sides.
Can WE , rely upon MMS and similar ones waiting in the queue ?

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 06 Mar 2011 22:31

NRao wrote:Split TSP and there will be no TSP.

There will more TSP.

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 08 Mar 2011 00:47

what would be the strategy of IAF/IA/IN/MOD to protect its sat-orbital group against missile hit threat( esp low orbital). This threat to India is not just with china but we can expect this from pak (pak china mil.trade) durin war. This threat is directly releted to india BMDS, GPS systems, nevigation systems and this would paralise the entire Def.structure. I think our def. think tank of GOI surely have initiated some action plan. As a preventive action we can tie-up with USA/RUSSIA or even israil to use there military sat.system. This is jst my guess as a possible opt. ... gurus plz suggestion on this...

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 08 Mar 2011 02:35

China has five airbases, extensive rail-road networks in Tibet: Antony

NEW DELHI: Apart from nuclear missile bases in Qinghai province which clearly target India, China has built five fully-operational airbases, an extensive rail network and over 58,000 km of roads in Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR).

People's Liberation Army is also rapidly upgrading several other airstrips in TAR as well as south China, to add to the five airbases from where Chinese Sukhoi-27UBK and Sukhoi-30MKK fighters have practised operations in recent times.

Moreover, with extensive road-rail links in TAR, PLA can amass upwards of two divisions (30,000 soldiers) at their "launch pads'' along the border in just 20 days now compared to the over 90 days it took earlier.

All this is not strikingly new but, soon after Beijing hiked its annual military budget to $91.5 billion, mounting concern over China's massive build-up of military infrastructure was reflected in Lok Sabha on Monday.

Cutting across party lines, 19 MPs came together to quiz defence minister A K Antony on whether the UPA government was taking "cognizance'' of the "increased Chinese military activities'' along the 4,057-km LAC.

Antony, in a written reply, said "necessary steps'' were being taken in consonance with India's national security concerns. "Military capacity enhancement and modernisation of armed forces is a dynamic process, which takes into account the cumulative challenges envisaged by the nation,'' he said.

"The total road network in TAR is assessed at 58,000 km in 2010. Extension of Qinghai Tibet Railway to Xigaze is in progress. Another railway line from Kashgar to Hotan in Xinjiang Uighur Autonmous Region is under construction,'' he said, adding the five TAR airfields were Gongar, Pangta, Linchi, Hoping and Gar Gunsa.

India is now, albeit belatedly, trying to strategically counter China. Just last week, for instance, saw two new Sukhoi-30MKIs touch down at Chabua airbase in Assam, the second airbase in North-East after Tezpur to house the multi-role fighters. Both airbases will have two Sukhoi squadrons (each has 16 to 18 jets) each.

The Army, on its part, has raised two new mountain infantry divisions, with 1,260 officers and 35,011 soldiers. While the 56 Division has its HQ in Zakama (Nagaland) under the Dimapur-based 3 Corps, the 71 Division at Missamari (Assam) falls in the operational command of the Tezpur-based 4 Corps.

IAF is also upgrading eastern sector ALGs (advanced landing grounds) like Pasighat, Mechuka, Walong, Tuting, Ziro and Vijaynagar as well as several helipads in Arunachal. This comes after the reactivation of western sector ALGs like Daulat Beg Oldi, Fukche and Nyama in eastern Ladakh.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Mar 2011 04:37

let us put 10. or have more extended range shauryas.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 08 Mar 2011 05:32

Craig Alpert wrote: <SNIP> Moreover, with extensive road-rail links in TAR, PLA can amass upwards of two divisions (30,000 soldiers) at their "launch pads'' along the border in just 20 days now compared to the over 90 days it took earlier.

<SNIP>

The Army, on its part, has raised two new mountain infantry divisions, with 1,260 officers and 35,011 soldiers. While the 56 Division has its HQ in Zakama (Nagaland) under the Dimapur-based 3 Corps, the 71 Division at Missamari (Assam) falls in the operational command of the Tezpur-based 4 Corps.

<SNIP>

So, for the first time we have realistic estimate of the timeframe required by the PLA to re-inforce the TAR. What we don't know is the location these troops are going to come in from - to these 20days, one can safely add another 10-15 days for acclimatization. Finally, we can lay the myth of dragon rising from nowhere which tends to make SDREs shiver in their langots.

As for the 2nd part - please to see the re-organization of NE defences. 4 Corps is with 71/21/5 Mountain Divisions with locations at Misamari/Rangia/Bomdila while 3 Corps is with 2/56/57 MDs with location at Dinjan/Leimakhong/Zakhama. So, the AOR has been rationalized with part central and eastern AP and NE with 3 Corps while central and western AP and bhutan with 4 Corps. Need another back-up Corps with 2-3 Mountain Divisions to close the loop.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 08 Mar 2011 12:01

We may build up two new divisions or four new divisions. But we need the roads/rails/aircraft to get them to the LAC or theater of operations. We also need to change our orientation from defense to offense in the North-east and north-western sectors.
There is no rail link which will link Ramnagar in UP to the border areas of Uttranchal. The Leh-Shmila rail link has gone into hibernation of some sort and is being proposed just so as to compete with the existing Tibet railway link. Moreover the meter guage railway link between Shimla and Kalka which should have been converted to Broad Guage has not been done. The Conversion of the Kangra railway from meter guage to broad guage and extension of the same to Shimla/Chandigarh is not even being considered.
Even after the need was identified in 1980 and reinforced after the Kargil Fiasco, we still dont have an all weather 4 lane road link between chandhigarh and Leh.
The rail link being built between Bengal and Sikkim has a proposed speed of 65 kmph!!!!! Hell Konkan railway has a higher speed limit.
The less said about the proposed connectivity to Twang and arunachal the better.

Before the next decade arrives, China will have the ability to reinforce it troops in Tibet from Xianjing using the proposed railway line or the various airbases it has all in about 20 days. We waited for China to finish the Tibetan railway before starting the study on our Leh railway link. Even now, by the time the Chinese finish the Xianjing-Tibet rail link, we will still be studying the various options before us.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 08 Mar 2011 12:32

rohitvats what about 33 corps does its tasking change...it has a div in Kalimpong and a div in Binaguri not to mention the Black Cat in Gangtok
Binaguri is stone throw from Bhutan

Damn nostalgia.......

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 08 Mar 2011 14:33

^^^nope, I don't think so....there was actually give and take between 4 Corps and 3 Corps. 2 MD went from 4 Corps to 3 Corps and it gained 71 MD. This has led to rationalization of AOR.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 08 Mar 2011 15:42

so th NE has three Corps but you suggest another one as per your previous post.....

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 08 Mar 2011 16:41

^^^Yes, sir. That is because, for me, true NE is east of Brahamaputra...IMO, the AOR of 33 Corps and the Corps to its east is not linear in true sense; though AOR of 33 Corps and 4 Corps may meet somewhere in middle of Bhutan.

33 Corps will hold the front on it's own and again IMO, will be reinforced by troops from formations in west; I don't think there is going to be any lateral movement between 33 Corps and formations to its east. It will be busy defending Sikkim and, if the need arises, western Bhutan. Similarly, 4 Corps will be busy with Tawang, part of central AP and eastern Bhutan. 3 Corps will have the largest AOR from Central AP to right down south to Burma-India-BD border junction. I see the need for additional Corps with 2-3 Divisions and good offensive capability to handle any emergency in the NE proper. Like assault from north (tibet) and east (burma) on 3 Corps AOR and general offensive. This will create a complete and self-sustainig complex east of Brahmaputra.

Avik · Post by **Avik** » 09 Mar 2011 10:17

^^^^^
Rohit: Completely agree with you there. We need an additional Corps level formation in the NE to counter possible moves by PLA through Myanmar and also plan for any friskiness by the Bangladeshis, especially if Khaleda Zia and her cohorts are back in power.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 11 Mar 2011 00:56

Unstringing China's strategic pearls

Ever since the term "String of Pearls" was coined by a team of experts at United States-based consultancy Booz Allen in 2004, journalists and academics have overplayed China's supposedly malevolent involvement with countries along its Sea Lines of Communication (SLOC), which stretch from the South China Sea to the Indian Ocean.
:
There is still scant concrete evidence that China is currently or in the nearuture planning to build and maintain military bases along its SLOC. Indeed, to date the controversial theory is based more on speculation than fact. According to the 2005 Washington Post article that galvanized the debate, the "String of Pearls" refers to China's supposed aim to leverage diplomatic and commercial ties to build strategic bases stretching from the Middle East to southern China in order to protect its energy interests as well as "broader security objectives".

Good article worth reading

SidGupta · Post by **SidGupta** » 11 Mar 2011 13:59

Not sure if this link's been posted before, regarding a recent 'expert's' view on the J20:

http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/new-d ... a=1&c=1171

Extract from the article:

The J-20's top speed is judged to be below Mach 2, meaning it is significantly slower than an F-22 or F-15C. Little is known about the performance features of the J-20's twin jets, which may be based on technology from the western CFM-56 commercial powerplant first exported 30 years ago. The steady-state thrust provided by the engines is probably similar to the 29,000 lbs of the F-15C, but greatly inferior to the 48,000 lbs generated by the two F119 engines on the Raptor (J-20 maximum thrust of 60,000 lbs comes closer to the 70,000 lbs of F-22, and surpasses the 48,000 lbs of F-15C). The J-20 does not have the supercruise feature of the F-22 that allows the latter plane to fly at high speed without consuming excessive amounts of fuel, which puts the J-20 at a decided disadvantage given that it carries about 25 percent less fuel internally than the F-22. It also does not have the vectored thrust of the F-22 that provides enhanced aerial agility; the Chinese appear to have modified the fixed exhaust nozzles on the J-20 with an eye to misleading western observers concerning how capable the propulsion system is

Is this typical American propoganda, running down others development/achievement, while highlighting their superiority OR is the J20 really not all that.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Mar 2011 14:41

The PLA at Home and Abroad: Assessing the Operational Capabilities of China's Military
Roy D. Kamphausen, David Lai and Andrew Scobell

Key findings from the book include:

Signs are emerging that the PLA is becoming more confident about its position vis-à-vis Taiwan. At the same time, China believes that a changing international environment requires the Chinese armed forces to have more diversified capabilities. It is therefore placing relatively more emphasis on developing operational capabilities for missions other than against Taiwan (e.g., humanitarian assistance, peacekeeping operations, disaster relief, antipiracy, etc.).
The implementation of Hu Jintao’s “New Historic Missions” also affords the PLA the opportunity to make gains in some of its traditionally weaker areas, including logistics improvement, defense industry reform, and the implementation of combined and eventually joint operations.
Through its 2009 Gulf of Aden antipiracy mission, the PLA Navy has shown that it is capable of undertaking certain types of operations abroad.

Download Volume

TABLE OF CONTENTS
Foreword
George H.W. Bush

1| Introduction
David Lai

2| The People's Liberation Army and the Changing Global Security Landscape
Paul H.B. Godwin

3| Discourse in 3-D: The PLA's Evolving Doctrine, Circa 2009
Andrew Scobell

4| Changing Civil-Military Relations in China
You Ji and Daniel Alderman

5| Towards an Integrative C4ISR System: Informationization and Joint Operations in the People’s Liberation Army
Kevin Pollpeter

6| The People's Liberation Army and China’s Internal Security Challenges
Harold M. Tanner

7| Chinese Sea Power in Action: The Counter Piracy Mission in the Gulf of Aden and Beyond
Andrew S. Erickson

8| People's Liberation Army and People's Armed Police Ground Exercises with Foreign Forces, 2002-2009
Dennis J. Blasko

9| Military Exchanges with Chinese Characteristics: The People's Liberation Army Experience with Military Relations
Heidi Holz and Kenneth Allen

10| Emerging Grand Strategy for China's Defense Industry Reform
Eric Hagt

11| Taming the Hydra: Trends in China's Military Logistics Since 2000
Susan M. Puska

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Mar 2011 15:01

at a time of stringent budget cuts, americans tend to hype up fears and threats to ensure the steady flow of dollars to its mil-ind-complex

times are tough and unkil is on the backfoot, i would have expected more fear of the jasmine-thundar
perhaps it is a charso-bees after all...

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 13 Mar 2011 19:17

Beijing, Taipei concerned about effeminate recruits

biswas · Post by **biswas** » 13 Mar 2011 20:16

^ Not Beijing/Taipei related but I have/had this friend from Singapore, the guy was afraid of gokarting, horror movies, walking at night, parties, loud noises, fireworks and so much more but still was a part of army, this is a very good argument against conscription.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 Mar 2011 21:11

^^^ OT too.

Israel, perhaps to a lesser extent, has this problem too. But, they have managed it well.

However, the topic of not facing a war situation for 30ish years would be a factor. India and Israel have had to be on their toes and have had to maintain an ongoing edge.

Perhaps China should allow some yahoo jihadis to filter through to keep a rolling boil?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Mar 2011 21:16

Gerard wrote:Beijing, Taipei concerned about effeminate recruits

A benis-worthy article on many counts. I wonder if a satirical video can be made out of this?

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 13 Mar 2011 21:29

****** are offering to send a humanitarian force to Japan, as their amphibious fleet is near the Japanese coast as reported by TOI.
India should grab this opportunity to strengthen ties with Japan as we face a common enemy and should work together

Aniket, the use of that word for Chinese is not permitted on BRF as it is considered a slur - JE Menon