Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2011

A Arun · Post by **A Arun** » 13 Mar 2011 19:42

FIFA World Cup : Shakira's Waka Waka :: ICC World Cup : This

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 13 Mar 2011 19:45

shiv wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote: How 'plum' are they compared to private sector Paki Generals? Post- Kargil and after his retirement, VPM was interviewed by (I forget which) NYT or WAPO "sitting on his bed, in his tee shirt in his modest bungalow'. Not exactly Corpse Commando stuff is it? (Mush bought a London flat for $45 million)
You are comparing Indian army retirement benefits with the money made by Pakistani generals? There is no comparison, but are you suggesting that people such as Admiral Ramdas and Gen Malik have entered the peace business for the money because they rue the fact that Paki jernails make so much?

The fact that Paki jernails have money and Indian chiefs of staff though comfortable by Indian standards have less money does not translate to the idea that they enter the peace business for the money. If you are suggesting that I don't think you have provided anything more than a personal opinion.

It is important for me to get that clear. There are people in the peace business who do not get much money. Are you suggesting that retired Indian chiefs of staff are in it for the money? I would like you to clarify your opinion on this point. TIA

Happy to clarify what I am saying. But, first I'd your take on where the 'loaded' (Chetak's word I think) Admiral Ramdas got his money.

On the clarification. The Indian Military and IAS retirement benefits were quite generous prior to the IT biz taking off. You got plots and some help with financing for the house etc. IOW, everyone was dirt poor and the govt pensions looked good.

Post IT and India's rapid growth, the military and the IAS have been left in the dust by young whippersnappers. Someone with a few years 'experience' is driving a better car, lives in a better house and shops at the tony supermarkets for imported foods. At the same time, you have young people flaunting possessions.

For example, a few months ago, I was in Mumbai and as we (taxi) got off the Bandra Worli Expressway, three Benzes two of them AMG SL 63s and one S63 (unrelated it appeared) got off ahead of us. They each cost $150k in the US and I shudder to think how much they cost in India. OK, fine this is Bollywood. When I went to Blore Taj with a retired relative (very senior IAS wallah) and his friend a retired General, the talk turned to one of wonderment about the age of the other patrons and their shiny beemers and benzes parked outside. It was not resentment per se but of resignation and a wry observation that if they had it to do over again it would not be based on ephemeral ideals of national service.

IT and India Inc. types aside, take a look at this beeb article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12638960

"The week-long nuptials of Lalit Tanwar to his bride Yogita Jaunapuria are lavish and attended by thousands.

The pair married at a family farmhouse on Tuesday - the groom reportedly wore a garland made of bank notes and received the helicopter as a gift. "

In the Indian Express, he was quoted as saying: "True, a Bell 429 helicopter was given but it was a simple wedding.":)

The Hindustan Times reported that 2,000 guests were invited to the pre-wedding ceremony last week and each was given a silver biscuit, a safari suit and $500 (£307) in cash,

In Mumbai, numerous (obviously not all) teen birthday parties, the young guests went home with goodie bags containing Iphones. How do I know? nieces told me they got iphones.

So what's the point of the above and how does it track back to the retired war horses? Well, the old man will still cling stubbornly (and admirably no pun intended) to his youthful ideals and ethics. The wife OTOH, sees daily reality—price of this and that. The offspring are gimlet-eyed realists. Eventually the wife and kids convince the old man to try it what's the harm? You've got to make hay if you can when you can. Right now, they are caught between the politicos (Tanwars) and the IT whippersnappers.

So, the old man joins a peace group. What's the harm? I can't really say. Adm. Ramdas & co. don't damage Indian security by doing AKA or whatever. The only thing I've noticed is how the Paki elite (including the ret military) thrive on the interaction—they get rejuvenated by demonstrating that the feared enemy commanders can be 'summoned' for a conference and a meal—flown in on a private aircraft—rubbing it in all the time. Is that bad?

For BR, the above is controversial. So, I repeat NOT all retired military commanders do this and those FEW high visibility ones that do are NOT doing anything illegal or damaging.

I am left with two questions: Why the focus on the retired military commanders in the peace biz; and are we comfortable with their being part of this?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 13 Mar 2011 20:01

sum wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Mani Shankar Aiyar's take on what led to Partition
Cant get myself to read what MSA would have barfed on this subject. Could any kind soul just confirm if the word RSS/Hindu Mahasabha turns up prominently in his "thesis"?

Answer to rants of MSA - I know it will fall on deaf ears, but will educate the newbies, nontheless..

Savarkar and Lala Lajpat Rai did not propose two-nation theory. The word "Rashtra" means much more than "nation" just like Sanskriti means much more than culture and Dharma means infinitely more than religion. Savarkar says, there are 2 rashtra's living in India - Hindu and Islam. He never proposed partition of India, to accommodate Islamic Rashtra. Here "Rashtra" means something similar to "Operating system" "A system of People" (as is defined by Apte online Sanskrit dictionary) which is installed in computer. He proposed that there should be just one "Rashtra/Operating system" in entire India (akhanda bharat) and that should be "Hindu rashtra/Operating system". This is so because Hindus are majority. With appropriate measures, all the minorities can be easily protected. He did not ask Muslims to convert to Hindu religions OR leave India forcibly. There is difference between Islam and Muslims. Muslims are people, just like Shaiva, vaishnava yoga, bauddha etc. Islam is a socio-politico-economic system which rivals Indian system of "Dharma".

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Mar 2011 20:01

Cosmo_R wrote:
So what's the point of the above and how does it track back to the retired war horses? Well, the old man will still cling stubbornly (and admirably no pun intended) to his youthful ideals and ethics. The wife OTOH, sees daily reality—price of this and that. The offspring are gimlet-eyed realists. Eventually the wife and kids convince the old man to try it what's the harm? You've got to make hay if you can when you can. Right now, they are caught between the politicos (Tanwars) and the IT whippersnappers.

So, the old man joins a peace group. What's the harm? I can't really say. Adm. Ramdas & co. don't damage Indian security by doing AKA or whatever. The only thing I've noticed is how the Paki elite (including the ret military) thrive on the interaction—they get rejuvenated by demonstrating that the feared enemy commanders can be 'summoned' for a conference and a meal—flown in on a private aircraft—rubbing it in all the time. Is that bad?

Cosmoji that is a made up story that still does not explain why it might be lucrative to join the peace movement. Recall that I actually live in India like you presumably do and am able to observe and validate or not validate the accompanying stories you have written that I enjoyed. I don't necessarily agree with the picture you have painted but cannot rule them out as impossible. However they cannot be said to apply in the specific cases of Ramdas and Malik whom you quoted as examples. There still is no explanation about why joining a peace initiative would be in any way financially attractive to either of these people. They could actually hod those opinions in a country that allows them to hold those opinions and not be doing it for the money. Do you have specific information to the contrary?

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 13 Mar 2011 20:18

Atri wrote:
Savarkar says, there are 2 rashtra's living in India - Hindu and Islam. He never proposed partition of India, to accommodate Islamic Rashtra. Here

Isnt that true in every country where muslim are any where above 5%. UKstan, France are examples that can ring bells for white man trying to demonize us SDRE. Muslims tend to always ghettoize and keep distinct identity and yearn for Shariah law over kufaar nizaam

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 13 Mar 2011 20:26

^^^Brad Goodman,

Perhaps what you write is better taken to the islamophobia thread. Having said that, I do cheer and applaud ever more places in oirostan and amristan breaching that magic threshold, whether 5% or otherwise. Experience is the best teacher, bar none.

--self-deleted. OT. ---

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 13 Mar 2011 20:27

bunnies keep scoreboard ticking

Political killings continue in Pakistan

Authorities say political violence in Pakistan left three people dead in the capital Karachi Sunday, bringing the two-day death toll to 17.

Dawn News said the three latest victims included an activist for the political party MQM.

The three victims died in separate shootings in different parts of the city, Dawn said.

The slayings were the latest in a series of targeted political attacks around Karachi that have also injured 18 people.

There have also been arson attacks on vehicles and offices of political organizations, GEO News said Sunday.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Mar 2011 20:38

Hari Seldon wrote:Experience is the best teacher, bar none.

Unless you reject that past and say it was all balls.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 13 Mar 2011 20:55

^^^ Exactly.
The experience in this case obtains from a continuing present, not from some distant past, however.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 13 Mar 2011 21:50

Tomorrow is when Rehman Dawood's big day in court happens, and when Groper Gillani's government is finally supposed to tell the court in Lahore whether RD has immunity or not.

The stories out today say that the Pakis are so much enjoying seeing Amerikhan squirm and churn that they will ask for more time from the court to continue this game of gill-danda.

So, Amerikhan will have a decision to make tomorrow. Which is how long to put up with the Pakis making them look so foolish and impotent.

Davis immunity: govt likely to ask LHC for more time

Davis enjoys no immunity

ISLAMABAD - The PPP-led ruling coalition would inform the Lahore High Court on tomorrow (Monday) that CIA defence contractor Raymond Davis, charged with killing two Pakistanis, has no blanket immunity, sources said on Saturday.

Indications of the possibility of the government sticking to its time buying tactics were, nevertheless, quite evident.

An official requesting anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue disclosed that none of the replies to four queries to be presented to the LHC addressed the question of immunity — clearly suggesting that the dispute that has been ominously threatening Pakistan-US strategic relationship would continue to linger.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 13 Mar 2011 22:23

Brad Goodman wrote:taseers little brat
My Pakistan is a progressive Pakistan: Shehrbano Taseer
[

She cant possibly have Pakistan. Nature dont make such mistake.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 13 Mar 2011 23:37

Like someone said above, Shehrbano Taseer and her ilk are only fooling themselves. They are not fooling the west (they haven't been for decades, the "West" knows exactly what's going on in Pakisatan).

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 14 Mar 2011 00:13

JEM that was yours tuly making the statement

Public reaction to Taseer killing depicts the real Pakistan

From the above link I found another statement from the young RAPEtte I missed to quote that statement.

"What is happening now won't matter in five years," said Taseer's daughter Shehrbano.

"It will matter in 25 years. What we are seeing now is the fruit of what happened 30 years ago. If people had stood up against [Zia-ul-Haq], we would not be here today. Because of that silence we have madrasahs spewing venom, a true Islam threatened by the same people who claim to serve it, and a cowed majority too afraid to speak," she added.

Some where deep in their hearts they have reaized that Abduls have understood the meaning of "True Islam". Now every one is desperate to bottle the dJinnn that has been unleashed. Sherbano and the ilk have deviated from the holy book and sunnat for too long and thanks to internet they cannot hide their tracks like they did when only abba and his few friends controlled media so information to abduls only contained pictures of them in shuttle cock burka and not the parties with unrelated men (uncovered meat) drinking the al haram sharaab

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Mar 2011 00:28

Atri wrote:
Savarkar and Lala Lajpat Rai did not propose two-nation theory. The word "Rashtra" means much more than "nation" just like Sanskriti means much more than culture and Dharma means infinitely more than religion. Savarkar says, there are 2 rashtra's living in India - Hindu and Islam. He never proposed partition of India, to accommodate Islamic Rashtra. Here "Rashtra" means something similar to "Operating system" "A system of People" (as is defined by Apte online Sanskrit dictionary) which is installed in computer. He proposed that there should be just one "Rashtra/Operating system" in entire India (akhanda bharat) and that should be "Hindu rashtra/Operating system". This is so because Hindus are majority. With appropriate measures, all the minorities can be easily protected. He did not ask Muslims to convert to Hindu religions OR leave India forcibly. There is difference between Islam and Muslims. Muslims are people, just like Shaiva, vaishnava yoga, bauddha etc. Islam is a socio-politico-economic system which rivals Indian system of "Dharma".

Good Post
Islam is a FOREIGN to India and is a foreign socio-politico-economic system which is having trouble in an ancient social order system.

Indians who have accepted the Indian politico-economic system (INDIAN SYSTEM) are in India and they are Indian muslims.

Indians who did not accept the Indian politico-economic system are in country called Pakistan.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 14 Mar 2011 00:51

^
Since the past 32 years the product of the peristaltic movements inside me that hasn't accepted the Indian system has been quietly escaping to pakistan every morning without fail

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Mar 2011 01:03

Only 32. Very young but we need all munna to think like this

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 14 Mar 2011 01:05

A Arun wrote:FIFA World Cup : Shakira's Waka Waka :: ICC World Cup : This

This is my new ringtone , thanks a ton Arun !!

Ashoka · Post by **Ashoka** » 14 Mar 2011 01:23

Karzai showing the right directions to the US. What happened to the 'Pakistan is our brother'? Only realizing the truth after his cousin was 'accidentally' killed by NATO?

Take your fight to Pakistan
http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... o-Pakistan

“We are very tolerant people but now our tolerance has run out.”
In an apparent reference to neighbour Pakistan, the Western-backed Karzai said international forces “should go and fight this war where we have showed them (it is) over the last nine years”. Insurgents have hideouts in Pakistan’s lawless border regions. “This war is not in our land,” Karzai added.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 14 Mar 2011 04:24

WSJ op-ed:

OPINION MARCH 14, 2011
Pakistan's Army Is the Real Obstacle to Peace --
It shelters jihadists and cows liberal civilian politicians.
By MIRA SETHI

Two months after Salman Taseer, the governor of Pakistan's Punjab province, was assassinated by his own bodyguard for criticizing the country's blasphemy law, the only Christian member of the Pakistani cabinet, Minorities Minister Shahbaz Bhatti, was killed for doing his job—advocating protection of the country's two million Christians.

Taseer's assassination prompted a debate: Was the blasphemy law, introduced by Gen. Zia ul-Haq in the 1980s in his bid to "Islamize" Pakistan, being exploited for mundane interests? Was it leading to witch hunts? Bhatti's death should prompt Pakistanis to ask themselves an equally disquieting question: Does Pakistan have a future as a successful nation state, at peace with itself and the world?

The civilian government's reaction to Bhatti's death has outraged many Muslim and Christian Pakistanis. As after Taseer's murder, it retreated into vague bromides. At Bhatti's funeral in Islamabad, Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gillani vowed to "do the utmost to bring the culprits to justice." There was no mention of who these culprits were (the Tehreek-e-Taliban of Punjab has claimed responsibility), no mention of the ideologies, religious parties and jihadi organizations fueling their actions, and no mention of the blasphemy laws that Bhatti had campaigned against.

But the deaths of Taseer and Bhatti are the outcome not just of the Pakistan People's Party abandonment of the principles that once made it an appealing, popular force. They are the result of a decades-long imbalance in governance and power, which now has the PPP and other liberal and centrist civilians cowering in fear.

The failure of the political classes to initiate democratic, constitutional reform after Pakistan's separation from India in 1947 enabled the military to quickly define "national interest" as an anti-India ideology. This ideology, a type of Islamic nationalism, is one from which the Pakistan military has reaped rich dividends. It has kept civilian politicians on the defensive and the people numbed.

With the onset of the Cold War the U.S. armed Pakistan for its own strategic purposes. When the Pakistani army undertook adventures creating instability in the region—wars with India and attempts, eventually successful, to build nuclear weapons—the U.S. suspended military and economic aid.

But the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 put the Pentagon and the Pakistani army on good terms again. This time, Gen. Zia extracted huge sums from Washington: Pakistan's army was paid billions of dollars in direct correlation to its usefulness in organizing an anti-Soviet Islamic jihad. The '90s saw a nasty separation—aid was suspended again—and a reunion followed after 9/11, when the U.S. needed Pakistan's help in Afghanistan.

Now Zia's "children" have come of age. Extremists of all stripes—the Taliban and the mujahedeen—roam the streets of Lahore and Karachi unchecked by the security agencies who once thought it would be a good idea to arm them. Anger and frustration fueled by inequality are making young Pakistanis turn to religion for answers.

As in Egypt, over 60% of the population of Pakistan is under 25. Unlike Egypt, they want an Islamic revolution, not a democratic one. Salman Taseer's police bodyguard—all of 26 years old—killed him for "insulting" the Prophet Muhammad. (The governor had criticized a manmade blasphemy law, not the Prophet, but his assassin didn't know the difference).

Slowly, the U.S. is beginning to understand that Pakistan's existential confusion is the result of the grand strategic designs of the Pakistani military, an army that has carried out three coups to thwart the development of a democratic political system. In the process, Pakistan's civilian leadership has been eliminated—Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto hanged, Benazir Bhutto, Taseer and Bhatti assassinated—the country dismembered, ethnic subnationalism, regional tension and inequalities aggravated.

The U.S. must support civilian supremacy and recognize the Pakistani army's game for what it is. Alarmed by the idea that if America leaves Afghanistan its U.S. funds will dwindle, the military is loath to crush the Islamist warriors who can be "calibrated" to deliver strategic value to it. Until the U.S. recognizes this, Pakistan's military will continue to hold the world to ransom.

Ms. Sethi, a native of Lahore, Pakistan, is assistant books editor at the Journal.

link

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 14 Mar 2011 04:34

Najam Sethi's daughter. Graduated from Wellesley College (Boston) last year ...

http://www.wellesley.edu/PublicAffairs/ ... 50410.html

She's pushing her father's luck

On the other hand, wiggle room is being created for a "civilian" set up... apparently she too has convinced herself that the "silent majority" in Pakisatan are not Qadrified. No doubt when you live in a RAPE household and head straight to Cheltenham Ladies College in the UK and then on to Wellesley College in Boston, and then become a Bartley's Fellow (paid intern) at the WSJ, you tend to view things through rose-tinted glasses, or see things as you wish they were.

Her father undoubtedly knows better, but his courage appears to have been moderately enlightened over the past few years... Maybe he received a talking to.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 14 Mar 2011 06:13

shiv wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:
So what's the point of the above and how does it track back to the retired war horses? Well, the old man will still cling stubbornly (and admirably no pun intended) to his youthful ideals and ethics. The wife OTOH, sees daily reality—price of this and that. The offspring are gimlet-eyed realists. Eventually the wife and kids convince the old man to try it what's the harm? You've got to make hay if you can when you can. Right now, they are caught between the politicos (Tanwars) and the IT whippersnappers.

So, the old man joins a peace group. What's the harm? I can't really say. Adm. Ramdas & co. don't damage Indian security by doing AKA or whatever. The only thing I've noticed is how the Paki elite (including the ret military) thrive on the interaction—they get rejuvenated by demonstrating that the feared enemy commanders can be 'summoned' for a conference and a meal—flown in on a private aircraft—rubbing it in all the time. Is that bad?
Cosmoji that is a made up story that still does not explain why it might be lucrative to join the peace movement. Recall that I actually live in India like you presumably do and am able to observe and validate or not validate the accompanying stories you have written that I enjoyed. I don't necessarily agree with the picture you have painted but cannot rule them out as impossible. However they cannot be said to apply in the specific cases of Ramdas and Malik whom you quoted as examples. There still is no explanation about why joining a peace initiative would be in any way financially attractive to either of these people. They could actually hod those opinions in a country that allows them to hold those opinions and not be doing it for the money. Do you have specific information to the contrary?

Shivji, this should not go further. Of course, the 'old man' story is made up. But simply to illustrate the temptations put one's way an allegory if you will. Anil Kumar of McKinsey fell for the "you are underpaid..." siren song.

All I'm saying is that the Paki General's CAN/MAY use the 'Mehman' concept to rub it in. So what does this achieve? probably zero but if not, fodder for those like MSA and ilk to attack those who who see AKA as less benign and force them to lower their guard. Again AKA is just a figurative...

Of course, I don't have information to the contrary and if I did, I would not be divulging it on the web.

However, I still don't understand how Adm. Ramdas can be said to be 'loaded'. Do you have any information to corroborate or deny ? I will of course, understand if you had any specific information you would not divulge it on the web.

BTW, nothing personal about Ramdas, he just keeps cropping up in the 'peace' stuff. He could be Vinoba Bhave's reincarnation for all I know.

FWIW, I understand your reluctance to stamp the 'peace business' as lucrative. Moi, being uber cynical sometimes see 'assassins maces' when there are none. Makes for debate on BR.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 14 Mar 2011 06:16

Gilani promised that he would make Saraiki province a part of the Pakistan People’s Party’s next election manifesto.

Daily Times

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 14 Mar 2011 06:22

Bhai log leaving Zaradari and Gang!

In what is being described as the biggest setback and ‘mother of all problems’ for PPP-led coalition government, the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM), the biggest coalition partner in the Centre with twenty five seats in the National Assembly, has made up its mind “to leave the government once and for-all”, as revealed by a senior co-ordination committee member of the party.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 14 Mar 2011 06:50

jrjrao wrote:WSJ op-ed:

OPINION MARCH 14, 2011
Pakistan's Army Is the Real Obstacle to Peace --
It shelters jihadists and cows liberal civilian politicians
By MIRA SETHI
..........................

Ms. Sethi, a native of Lahore, Pakistan, is assistant books editor at the Journal.

Gawds above, of all the cuttles that could be cuttled, this could be one of most most wajib-ul, eh?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Mar 2011 07:37

Cosmo_R wrote:
However, I still don't understand how Adm. Ramdas can be said to be 'loaded'. Do you have any information to corroborate or deny ? I will of course, understand if you had any specific information you would not divulge it on the web.

That is precisely the point Cosmoji. Whether Ramdas is loaded or not cannot have any bearing on the idea that he will be made to feel good as a "mehmaan" of a rich Paki. These are two separate issues

Either Ramdas is loaded or he is not
Either he feels mehmaaned or he does not

Neither has any known connection with his peacenik tendencies. Chetak has a view. He may be wrong. But that does not make any other assumptions correct either.

The only thing we have as open facts are
1) Adm Ramdas is a former chief of Navy staff
2) He seems to be in the IndiaPakistan peace business.

If we stuck to those two facts and ignored all the theories about his wealth and his wife's possible jealousies we could just stop discussing unknowns and speculating. Chetak's inside knowledge about Ramdas is in the same genre as my uncle telling me about the super secret weapon that India has acquired. You want to know about it but I can't tell on an open forum.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 14 Mar 2011 07:51

One of the reason Adm. Ramdas may be in India-Pak peace business because his daughter is married to a Paki. She met the Paki while studying in US.

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Mar 2011 08:25

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, self claimed haven for the Mohammaddens of the Indian Sub-Continent neither the “Islamic Republic” nor the “Safe haven for Mohammaddens” tag is sufficient for Mohammaddens belonging to the minority Shia / Shiite to escape the depredations of their co-religionists.

“Sectarian Incident” in Hangu results in 11 Shia’s travelling from Parachinar to Peshawar being killed:

11 die in attack on Parachinar coach

By Abdul Sami Paracha

KOHAT, March 13: Militants intercepted a passenger coach in Mamo Khwar area of Hangu district on Sunday and opened fire, killing 11 passengers and injuring six others.

The Peshawar-bound coach was coming from Parachinar.

Nine of the people killed in what appeared to be a sectarian attack were identified as ……………………..

“It seems to be a sectarian incident, as all those killed in the firing were Shias,” senior local police official Abdul Rashid said. …………………..

Dawn

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 14 Mar 2011 08:42

Ejaz Haider on TTP`s Real agenda.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/132054/some ... i-taliban/

When I went to Hangu in 1998 to report on the sectarian riots which saw Orakzai lashkars descend into the Miranzai Valley, I realised that a major shift was happening. Sunni Orakzai tribesmen were linking up with Sunni Bangash to attack Shia Bangash. Never before was it possible for tribal affiliation (the qaum or solidarity group) to be undermined by some supra-tribal ideology.
Imagine my surprise when in Hangu city, on one of the northern hills, I saw emblazoned in white lime the name of a Punjabi — Azam Tariq, the since slain leader of Sipah-e Sahaba Pakistan. Something was afoot and I reported it in The Friday Times along with the interview of Javed Piracha, the then PML-N MNA from Kohat and rabidly anti-Shia. For a Piracha to be able to influence the Pashtun and link up with the Orakzais was another telltale sign.

this means only one thing, that pakistan`s cup of woes will not end, even if the Americans move out. Imran Khan , Hamid Gul and Hamid Mir are all taking people for a ride by saying all problems are there because of US forces in Aghanistan. TTP wants power, it already controls FATA, it can bleed Pakistani army slowly but surely to death.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Mar 2011 08:53

Interesting article http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... =3/14/2011

DG ISPR decries criticism of defence budget

Some gems:

use of funds in civilian departments should be streamlined instead of criticising the defence budget.

Anti-Pakistan elements are trying to establish that the Army is a burden on the national development by criticising the armed forces.

conspirators are saying that the funds related to defence could be used for prosperity of the country.

Army presented its report about the presence of thousands of ghost schools as well as fake teachers in Punjab.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Mar 2011 09:02

Uber WKK at it again

The veteran journalist said that would lead a delegation to Pakistan on March 17. The visit is aimed at fostering good relations with Pakistan, he said. He was responding to questions by journalists and former MP Y. Shivaji on relations with Pakistan.

When asked whether it was proper to initiate bilateral talks with Pakistan, which has not made any categorical statement on Mumbai blasts, Mr. Nayar said that the Pakistan may be intransigent neighbour.

“India should go to the farthest extent to make peace with Pakistan as we have to live with it. The bilateral talks with Pakistan were need of the hour. On March 17, I am leading a delegation to that country,” he said.

'Farthest extent' means what ?

saip · Post by **saip** » 14 Mar 2011 09:03

He said Pakistan is allocating only $4 billion for defence whereas India’s defence budget is $36 billion

Thats is a lie. Pakistan's actual expenditure is much higher probably around 6% of its GDP. India's nominal GDP is 2 trillion and $36 billion is just 1.8% of the GDP.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Mar 2011 09:05

Anujan wrote:Interesting article http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... =3/14/2011

DG ISPR decries criticism of defence budget

Some gems:
Anti-Pakistan elements are trying to establish that the Army is a burden on the national development by criticising the armed forces.

conspirators are saying that the funds related to defence could be used for prosperity of the country.

Terms like 'anti-Pakistan elements' or 'conspirators' always refer to Yahud-Hunud-Nasara or in the LeT parlance Brahminic-Tulmudic-Crusaders.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Mar 2011 09:10

saip wrote:
He said Pakistan is allocating only $4 billion for defence whereas India’s defence budget is $36 billion
Thats is a lie. Pakistan's actual expenditure is much higher probably around 6% of its GDP. India's nominal GDP is 2 trillion and $36 billion is just 1.8% of the GDP.

saip, you are absolutely right. It is suspected to be much more than that as most of the military spending is not usually directly accounted for under defence budget. In the period between circa 1970-2000, Pakistan’s defence expenditure varied between 4% and 9% with an average of 6% of GDP while that of India was between a minimum of 3% and a maximum of 4% with an average of 3.25%. After the devastating floods of August 2010, when over 20% of Pakistan’s land mass was reportedly flooded, the economy took a deep dive with the government being left with money for only two month’s worth of salaries for the government employees. And, yet, the budgeted 13.6% funds for the military continued unabated. During fiscal 1990, when massive terrorism was being unleashed on India, while Pakistan’s GDP was USD 40 Billion, it spent close to USD 3 Billion on defence, which is almost 8% of its GDP. Jaswant Singh's book, "Defending India" has a lot of details, IIRC.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Mar 2011 09:34

He said Pakistan is allocating only $4 billion for defence whereas India’s defence budget is $36 billion

saip wrote:Thats is a lie. Pakistan's actual expenditure is much higher probably around 6% of its GDP. India's nominal GDP is 2 trillion and $36 billion is just 1.8% of the GDP.

What I found amusing about that was, a few sentences back he said

No Army in the world can disclose its development budget to the public

saip · Post by **saip** » 14 Mar 2011 09:48

And when you add all the crap they get from uncle for GUBO for nothing like Perry class frigates and used f solas, the actual amount they spend on arms is anyones guess.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 14 Mar 2011 09:55

Cosmo_R wrote: However, I still don't understand how Adm. Ramdas can be said to be 'loaded'. Do you have any information to corroborate or deny ?

Careful, Saar. I was given a strike-one-e-wahji-bulbul-scuttle by adminullah for asking such a question. Lay low saar and watch it unfold.

saip · Post by **saip** » 14 Mar 2011 10:02

Guruprabhu:

To be fair I dont think you got that warning for asking the question. I believe you got it for -- and deservedly so -- making scatological reference to Gandhi.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 14 Mar 2011 10:07

saip wrote:Guruprabhu:

To be fair I dont think you got that warning for asking the question. I believe you got it for -- and deservedly so -- making scatological reference to Gandhi.

scatological indeed! it was simply rhetorical - but hey, why ruin a good grammatological comment <ducking out while piskalogical comments take over>

p.s. -- is Ramdas less privileged than you or me or Gandhi?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Mar 2011 10:22

Please stop discussing admin actions. Now, that is a warning.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Mar 2011 10:46

BENIS-level material but nevertheless:

Lawmaker threatens to ‘explode’ assembly

The Gilgit-Baltistan Legislative Assembly witnessed its shortest duration on Thursday after Raziuddin Rizvi, an independent member, repeatedly threatened to “blow up” the house.

But

A legislator who threatened to blow up the Gilgit-Baltistan Legislative Assembly (GBLA) has been removed from his post after he refused to publicly apologise.