India and Japan: News and Discussion

partha · Post by **partha** » 13 Mar 2011 12:47

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12722026
Video of pacific ocean taking over a Japanese city.

I am sure the Japs will come back strongly from this disaster. There will be lots of lessons to be learned from how they will recover and rebuild.

Skanda · Post by **Skanda** » 13 Mar 2011 13:39

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/uplo ... erica.jpeg

Didnt know where to post or if its relevant.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 13 Mar 2011 13:45

A welcome step from India and sensible requirement from Japs

India sends relief supplies to Japan

Ready to extend all possible help immediately to Japan, reeling under the devastation caused by the massive earthquake and Tsunami, India is sending its first plane load of blankets on Sunday. "India sending wool good quality blankets for the people of Sendai and others affected by Japan quake.

"Discussed this with Jap (Japanese) Amb (Ambassador) in Delhi and we felt this was most useful and needed item given cold weather conditions in affected areas," she said.

MEA officials also said that governments of Haryana and Punjab are also helping in procuring large quantities of woollen blankets as the weather is very cold there.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Mar 2011 16:13

heard that folks like nissan, honda, toyota have shut factories...not sure if to save power for household and govt use.

if the entire island has shifted by upto 8ft, would that not throw anything dependent on precise alignment like navigation beacons, assembly lines, precision machinery out of alignment and need recalibration?

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 13 Mar 2011 16:25

Reg the facebook clowns....truly disgusting bunch of rednecks.

Hopefully most of the US population doesn't think that way.

-------------------

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/0 ... rmath.html

Truly Mindboggling pictures...shows the extent of destruction.

sampat · Post by **sampat** » 13 Mar 2011 17:56

Purush wrote:Reg the facebook clowns....truly disgusting bunch of rednecks.
Hopefully most of the US population doesn't think that way.

Pearl Harbour has been trending on Twitter. There is no shortage of rednecks in America.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Mar 2011 21:05

This reactor complex has produced its last MW of electricity. It will have to be decommissioned.

Just repairing, restoring, creating new Tsunami barriers, etc will take 10 years minimum. Easier and cheaper and quicker to build a modern facility inland in a safer spot. I think there is no way you can retrofit this structure to withstand another 9.1 Earthquake + 40 foot Tsunami, ergo complex is doomed.

The Tsunami danger has not passed. Remember only 1/10 of this particular fault has released. The strain is now propagating further along the fault. The question is if it went North towards that dangerous Alaska fault or South towards Tokyo. It is only a matter of time before another big one.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 13 Mar 2011 21:37

There are reports of death toll rising to 10,000+ (AP report), volcano erupting in southern Japan, hundreds of thousands home and powerless, nuclear emergency at multiple plants...

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 13 Mar 2011 22:43

Looks like the Miyagi prefecture(state) alone can have 10,000+ deaths.

So by today even the No 2 unit at the Fukushima-I has similar problems as the No 3 unit. Apparently even No4 unit is not functioning properly ( not cooling down) ?

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 13 Mar 2011 23:25

Its already an aging country....on top of that these disasters...poor japs....

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 13 Mar 2011 23:39

Yeah we must support them in whatever way we can, unobtrusively and quietly, and to the extent they want help, if any... This is not a time for callous comments or snide remarks.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 14 Mar 2011 02:40

India to send woollen blankets to Japan
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 535064.ece

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 14 Mar 2011 07:19

Explosion and white smoke reported from Unit 3 of Fukushima-I plant by NHK world. Also a new 5m sea level change has raised a new Tsunami warning.

Apparently it is hydrogen explosion.

Updated: Japan Met Agency says no Tsunami detected from the 6.2 aftershock. Maybe the drop noticed not verified independently. That is good news with all the other bad ones still around.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 14 Mar 2011 08:58

After earthquakes and tsunamis and explosions and power outages, now a volcano has gone off in Japan.
Volcano erupts in distaster-ravaged Japan

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Mar 2011 09:05

The volcano is in south western region and not in the tsunami region.

Meanwhile map of the power plants:

Image is too large:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/infographics ... Plants.jpg

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Mar 2011 09:17

Sorry if it is a repost, but these "before" and "after" satellite images are a must see.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011 ... _LO_MST_FB

Just horrible. Much worse than I could have imagined.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 14 Mar 2011 09:25

^Wow... The "after" Pics look like as if somebody ran through them with an eraser.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Mar 2011 09:26

http://www.tvjapan.net/en/subcategory/news.html

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
Continuous update

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 14 Mar 2011 09:39

Sympathies for Japan and Japanese people and hope they recover from this faster. But the road to recovery isn't going to be easy especially considering their debt situation (their debt/gdp levels apparently only next to Zimbabwe). Unkil's companies that face competition from Japanese companies are smirking away. Will be interesting to watch their recovery and other global moves as a result of this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Mar 2011 09:50

20 years after Nagasaki was bombed, it produced world beater cars. This disaster is minor compared to that.

US reporting has a lot of smirks and rhona/dhona about the demographics, scale of disaster etc etc.

One good thing is G-8 cant demand Japanese aid for bailouts. They need it to rebuild.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 14 Mar 2011 10:03

When it comes to hardwork and work ethics, the Japanese are second to none. They are resilient, and they will rebuild the country without whining much. They have a lot of work ahead of them, and they are off to an excellent start. Tsunami of such biblical proportions, it is their preparedness and excellent immediate response that has mitigated the loss of human life. I don't know why AP keeps talking about 10000+ deaths, the official toll so far is 1600 deaths and 1900 missing.

69 countries have pledged massive amounts of aid.US,China and South Korea are leading the way. I wish we could've done a bit more than send some blankets.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2011 10:45

speaking of discipline I have not read of reports of looting - you know in places like L.A. moment yellow matter hits fan, people will be out getting themselves new shoes, ipod and TVs

there was report of a devastated town with all shops broken and open for looters but people were queueing up to take their ration share.

that kind of society can usually weather heavy blows without the need for "national guard with orders to shoot looters" thing

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 14 Mar 2011 11:48

Japan Reactor: Video of new explosion at Fukushima nuclear plant

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 14 Mar 2011 11:55

Forgive me folks; but I think what we should be start thinking about is "How do we do more, post the tragedy"; What I would like to see is thinking in the establishment about "What does this make about Geo-pol power post the event, and how do we navigate the changed territory"

Yes, I am cold hearted cruel person wonlee.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 14 Mar 2011 11:58

^^^
For one thing, it will change 3.5 friends to 3 friends only, at least for a little while.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2011 14:22

Japanese officials are playing down any health risk, but the US military said it had moved away from the area after one of its aircraft carriers detected low-level radiation 100 miles (160km) offshore.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2011 15:17

CNN: Rolling blackouts began in parts of Tokyo Monday evening, with electricity turned off for up to three hours in some parts. With the imperiled Fukushima plant offline, Tokyo Electric Power said it was expecting a shortfall of around 25 percent capacity, which necessitated the blackouts.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Mar 2011 17:56

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/ ... BC20110314

timeline

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Mar 2011 17:57

one thing to bear in mind, the japanese military and civil agencies are highly prepared, practiced and expert in earthquake, tsunami and other forms of disaster management. they have been coordinating international efforts of help very efficiently. you can't stop the pacific ocean, but if any country will bear the brunt of her force and stand up again, it is japan

toyota apparently reopened its plant within a few hours, with normal shift on duty! current closures are due to load shedding. only 3 power stations have been damaged, of which 1 is severe, 1 is moderate and 1 light. powerlines will be down and substations flooded or damaged, which is the bigger problem

radiation levels are elevated, but not dangerous - comparison should be made with three mile island and not chernobyl. so far the site containment has been fairly text book

financial markets have been stabilised by immediate massive liquidity release by the BoJ. not all credit facilities have been taken up. the markets are down, but not badly. the yen is not much affected - a little devaluation is welcome. analysts suggesting that this will result in a quarter or two of slowdown, not much more - they are seriously well prepared for this as a nation

however, for the little guy living in a small seaside town - this is seriously awful

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Mar 2011 22:28

Some radio commentator was saying the fuel tanks for the Diesel Generator plant were washed out and thats the reason for their non-working. And that the disaster is much less severe than 3Mile Island or Chernobyl. Lets see.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Mar 2011 22:32

^^^ rated 4/7 by atomic energy agency
3-mile island = 5/7
chernobyl = 7/7

radiation leakage = 20 x normal; equivalent to annual normal dosage (from background) absorbed in 1 month
whilst not ideal, it is a long way from being a problem

the two blasts have been as expected - apparently used to vent pressure
flooding with sea-water, as expected

media is going a bit gaga because of lack of understanding of issues - authorities are saying "x may happen in remote circumstances" and media is reporting "x is happening"

that said, best to be cautious

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 14 Mar 2011 22:40

Indirect effects of the Disaster:::German Automotive and Engineering exports will rise....

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Mar 2011 00:23

Lalmohan, What is odd is the TEPCO plants BWR are built by GE San Jose. However the expertise on US TV is shocking. I know GE San Jose was sold to Toshiba, however BWRs are a large number in US and could have preception issues if IDM is let lose. The CBS World news graphic on Friday was totally wrong. NHK had the right graphic.

saip · Post by **saip** » 15 Mar 2011 01:24

Damage to an airbase

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBGFwu9G ... ure=relmfu

saip · Post by **saip** » 15 Mar 2011 01:44

Just a dumb question. Most reactors have pools for storing low level radio active material in special containers. I have not heard anything about these. When the tsunami hit the plant, did these suffer damage?

Heard even the USS Ronald Reagan is staying at a safe distance to avoid the 'radio active plumes' and the floating debris.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 15 Mar 2011 02:09

Fukushima Nuclear Accident – a simple and accurate explanation

http://theenergycollective.com/barrybro ... xplanation

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 15 Mar 2011 02:16

^^^Most of the news networks 'expert analysis' wrt to nuclear power-plants is pretty bad. As MIT's Oehmen said on his blog: link
(This is posted by Gerard in the other thread)

I have been reading every news release on the incident since the earthquake. There has not been one single (!) report that was accurate and free of errors (and part of that problem is also a weakness in the Japanese crisis communication). By “not free of errors” I do not refer to tendentious anti-nuclear journalism – that is quite normal these days. By “not free of errors” I mean blatant errors regarding physics and natural law, as well as gross misinterpretation of facts, due to an obvious lack of fundamental and basic understanding of the way nuclear reactors are build and operated. I have read a 3 page report on CNN where every single paragraph contained an error....

Some of the Fox report I heard yesterday was even worse..

Also bottom line, should be understood that:
There was *not* (and not going to be any ) any significant release of radioactivity.

By “significant” I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on – say – a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation.

BTW an interesting factoid ... in USA it is illegal to sell any alcoholic beverage (wine etc) which is not radioactive! ( IOW All wines/beer etc, sold in USA, by law, have to be radioactive

(> 400 radiations every minute per bottle) ..

Talked to a physicist in Japan, their neutrino lab is working fine..(The T2K neutrino experiment was just about to announce important new results when the earthquake struck. A series of planned seminars around the world has been postponed until the results can be announced first in Japan as planned)

FWIW
When people see the figures of radiation released .. (low level radiation is quite easy to detect).. one way to put these numbers into perspective is to remember:

-(100 rem=1 Sievert (sv) modern unit)

below 100 rem (1Sv) ...no short-term illness
100 to 200 rem ..... slight or no short-term illness( nausea, loss of hair, rarely fatal)
300 rem (LD50 Famous term used in literature)(3 Sieverts) -
(50% chance of death, if untreated, within 60 days)
more than 1000 rem (more than 10 Sieverts) ...( death in 1 or 2 hours)
(Note that most of the numbers in news are reported in millirems (LD50 is 300,000 millirems!)

Half life of radioactive N (or elements which are vented) etc are in seconds.. they die down quickly.. Cs, I, Sr,Kr have longer life (years/decades)

(Radiation induced cancer (and other effects of low level radiation) is less understood, specially for low level radiation....so of course, you want to avoid as much radiation as possible.. but above gives one data point to understand the numbers....

Some one once remarked to me (it may be hard to believe, when heard for the first time, but further calculation shows that it is true) that - "of those killed by the Hiroshima atomic bomb, the best estimate is that fewer than 2% died of radiation-induced cancer"

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Mar 2011 02:20

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Mar 2011 02:25

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infoc ... R2JVHD.jpg

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 15 Mar 2011 02:27

Sanku wrote:Forgive me folks; but I think what we should be start thinking about is "How do we do more, post the tragedy"; What I would like to see is thinking in the establishment about "What does this make about Geo-pol power post the event, and how do we navigate the changed territory"

Yes, I am cold hearted cruel person wonlee.

This may be OT for the thread but IMO, this is the perfect time for China to carry out some overt (mis)adventures with respect to Okinawa and Senkaku island chain, perhaps even Taiwan, given that these are PRC's territorial disputes in the Pacific.

At the same time, Indo-Japanese infrastructural JV's may be delayed till the country is up and running.