Indian Railways Thread

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 10 Mar 2011 13:23

Writing this post travelling in the 2AT AC coach of the 12422 NDLS BHUBANESHWAR (BBS) RAJDHANI. I boarded from Mughal Serai to BBS.

The rake is LHB.

The 2T AC coach is a RCF recent year (2008) manufacture.

The push button toilet flushes in all 4 toilets I visited are not working. The pressure and rate of flow of the emergency flush buttons is not going to flush anything anywhere. Where the emergency flush buttons are not working, pushing them simply starts a stream of water that flows along the wall.

The situation is the same in the 2 toilets I visited in the 1 AC coach, again of recent manufacture.

Public loves their food but does not care about the where, how and when of the after effects of digestion which must always be equalised to the state of the village level at all costs. Even 1 AC passengers are not spared the equalising treatment.

You cam imagine the state of the toilets.

The ceiling panels in the 2T AC coach is hanging precariously from 1 end in2 places. There are fasteners but someone simply has not bothered to finish off re-installing the panels.

The covers for the fluorescent lights are missing in at least 2 places in the coach corridor. A tube is missing in one receptacle.

The windows are grungy and dirty.

The reading light panel for berth 1 is ripped out and then fixed back at a weird angle so the screw & cable holes show.

Oh yes, the train a running a few hours late.

What a sorry state of affairs for a premier IR train!

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 10 Mar 2011 13:28

rahulm wrote:What a sorry state of affairs for a premier IR train!

Looks quite bad. I feel a lot also depends upon the working standards and ethics of the maintenance shed in which this rake is maintained. From IRFCA forums etc. I understand that there are some loco sheds reknown for its quality of workman ship, and some others who are lax on their jobs. Guess, it is the same with rake maintenance as well.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 10 Mar 2011 13:36

Sachin wrote:
rahulm wrote:What a sorry state of affairs for a premier IR train!
Looks quite bad. I feel a lot also depends upon the working standards and ethics of the maintenance shed in which this rake is maintained. From IRFCA forums etc. I understand that there are some loco sheds reknown for its quality of workman ship, and some others who are lax on their jobs. Guess, it is the same with rake maintenance as well.

I don't want to sound parochial but have never seen the RAJ reduced to such a state in WR or even the western parts of India.

We justifiably take pride in WAP's, WAM's, WDM's etc, the recent new anti corrosion rails, basically the engineering (hard) services. Problem is we stop there.

Its time we also simultaneously focused on the services (soft) side with the same drive and enthusiasm.

What to do, I am facing the effects of negligence as I compose this post. I have taken pictures but don't have bandwith from a moving train to post. (Kudos to Reliance Broadband and all India roaming that I at least have Internet conectivity on the move)

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Mar 2011 04:49

rahulm wrote:Its time we also simultaneously focused on the services (soft) side with the same drive and enthusiasm.

Services is loss making. In fact the entire passenger system is loss making. If passenger was eliminated IR would become the most profitable railway in the world. A capital ratio of 44 IIRC. This is why all these trains begin with a bang but the constant loss drains all future investment. How do you pay for new coaches without a profit.

You want services, you should pay for it. How much did you pay for your Rajdhani. A 2000 km sleeper trip with world class services would cost $400-$500. $0.20 per 1 kms. If we apply a India discount and say $200 per sleeper it should still be Rs 10,000 per ticket for world class service. Again, how much did you pay.

I remember in the 1970's the Raj fare was about Rs400 from Howrah to Delhi. We only went because the bank paid for it.

You can't get world class on the cheap. The sad thing is even with this minimal level of service, IR lost money on your ticket.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Mar 2011 11:00

rahulm wrote:I don't want to sound parochial but have never seen the RAJ reduced to such a state in WR or even the western parts of India.

rahulm, the story is the same (or even worse) in SR. I have posted here a couple of times about that.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 13 Mar 2011 13:15

Theo_Fidel wrote:Services is loss making. In fact the entire passenger system is loss making.

Correct me if I am wrong. It seems the current train fares remain like that, because it is heavily subsidised. If we even think of making a minimal profit, the fares would become extremely high. But we also need to remember one thing. If the passenger fares are jacked up, we would be denying the facility of affordable travel to millions of Indians.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 Mar 2011 08:36

Sachin,

Affordable travel to the millions is what IR provides.

Unfortunately this does not include world class stations or CDS toilets or punctuality or even spotless coaches. All these things cost money that the traveling public does not want to pay for, yet demands world class systems.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 14 Mar 2011 11:18

Theo_Fidel wrote:All these things cost money that the traveling public does not want to pay for, yet demands world class systems.

Some times I feel IR knows exactly what the aam aadmi wants. Modern toilets, or very neat and tidy railway stations etc. may not be the top priority. People, I guess want trains and more trains. And that too from every where to every where. For example Mallus in Bangalore have been crying for more trains. And I am sure that even if IR puts in 10 more trains, the whine would still continue.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 15 Mar 2011 14:51

Absolutely Sachin. Right now, there is enough traffic for one more train ERN-SBC. 10 is not at all an unreasonable number.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 15 Mar 2011 15:02

Dileep wrote:Right now, there is enough traffic for one more train ERN-SBC. 10 is not at all an unreasonable number.

The problem is that (all of us know that), we cannot start trains like buses

. The Railways need to identify perfect time slots, so that another daily train would be able to run through the congested routes of SBC-JTJ, then JTJ-ERS * (where you would also have trains arriving from other parts of India as well). The other route available is the YPR-HSRA-SA route, which again would join the main line at SA. Honestly, I dont know how many people who demand more trains to be run on every route, know the limitations of the infrastructure.

* Perhaps there could be available time slots during off-peak hours, but rest assured Mallus would certainly make the next demand. The train should leave Bengaluru late in the night, and reach the socialist republic next day morning (and vice versa).

.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 16 Mar 2011 01:39

Sachin wrote:Honestly, I dont know how many people who demand more trains to be run on every route, know the limitations of the infrastructure.

This is absolutely right. At present the IR fixed block system is grossly inefficient. Several reports have stressed that a modern moving block system would make the system safer and increase capacity sometimes by 3 times. Of course a moving block would require that the railways keep track of every single train in the system constantly.

The theoretical max of a double line system with fixed block is 30 trains per hour! With a moving block it is 38 trains per hour. The fact that most lines don't even manage 20% of this is indicative of the quality of IR equipment. Underpowered trains (most of IR), poor braking, visual signaling (in cab is far quicker), poor line quality causing constant 'go slows', poor station Roll-in Roll-out adding time, constant mechanical failures, etc.

yogi · Post by **yogi** » 16 Mar 2011 03:17

I think India has reached a point, where the most effective mass transport mechanism for traveling long distances is going to be "On Demand Transport Vehicles (ODTV)". To explain this simply, imagine a single bogey/ODTV with capacity of 100, running non-stop between point A to point B. When on point A, the bogey waits until it gets full, and leaves for its destination the moment capacity of 100 is reached. Immediately after, another empty ODTV takes its place.

The current train system, where every train stops at 10-20 odd stations, is extremely wasteful of passenger time and energy lost in accelerating/braking. It was ok, when there were few trains, and fewer passengers. But now if you just take tier 1-2-3 cities, there is so much of passenger demand, that having dedicated ODTVs between such cities wouldn't have any problem.

Such a system also gets rid of the immense resources wasted on the Railway reservation/tatkal system. There is no wait time, no delay in departing, and no fear of missing the train. If one ODTV leaves, just wait for another one. During peak hours, service can be every 15 Mins, during non-peak hours, it can be as infrequent as once in 2-3 hours. If distance is short, or if the speed of ODTV can be sufficiently increased (imagine Maglev speeds), then the whole concept of sleeper compartments can be done away with (saving immense amount of space, thus transporting more people at a cheaper price).

A non-stop transport vehicle has advantages in terms of safety and security, or missing the stop if overslept. No chain snatching, or poisonous food offered by thieves, and no child left behind while the train is leaving (hence no chain pulling needed). No worry of suitcase being stolen in the middle of the trip. The advantages are just way too much to not consider such a system. Another creative business expansion concept can be, people should be able to hire smaller ODTVs for their personal trip. Imagine a baaraat going from Jammu to Patna, a party of 60 people, hiring a smaller version of a ODTV for their personal trip, at a schedule of their convenience. Or maybe a Deluxe version of a honeymoon suite for an all-india tourism. Possibilities are just huge.

Yes, this would require a bogey/ODTV that can run on its own and does not need an engine. Probably would also need a dedicated service-guy (just like there is one in all AC coaches).

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 16 Mar 2011 10:33

yogi wrote:I think India has reached a point, where the most effective mass transport mechanism for traveling long distances is going to be "On Demand Transport Vehicles (ODTV)". To explain this simply, imagine a single bogey/ODTV with capacity of 100, running non-stop between point A to point B. When on point A, the bogey waits until it gets full, and leaves for its destination the moment capacity of 100 is reached.

I like the concept, but has this been tested out in any railway network? This system may work efficiently in a road network. Infact the private bus operators some time operate in this fashion (they have their own good ways of predicting the expected load, during peak seasons etc.).

One thing we must understand is that in India, there are very rare cases where we have a dedicated route from Point A to Point B. The trains finally have to go through major trunk routes, where trains from various parts of India would be passing through. So here an ODTV or a train with 10 coaches may not make any difference. An ODTV starts from SBC with 100 passengers, soon it is going to join the main line, which would have other stations on its way. ODTVs which have started from other points also would soon land up on the same tracks. And then it would become a nightmare for the signalling staff and the traffic controllers

.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 16 Mar 2011 19:08

Wouldn't a point-to-point service with a few stops in between be a better solution? The railways i'm sure already has enough data to determine what % of passenger traffic travels from start to finish and stops in between and push trains that stop only at few stations. This could mean that those it could run trains that dont stop too frequently and can maybe take alternate routes and get to their destinations faster.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Apr 2011 14:25

Kapurthala Rail Coach Factory rolls out jerk-free Duronto rake

The Rail Coach Factory here today rolled out 15 coaches for Duronto Express which will enable passengers experience a jerk-free train ride for the first time.

The first rake has a new type of centre-buffer coupler, which joins the two bogies, with special focus on reducing jerks.

The 15 coaches are fitted with tight-lock couplers, imported from Sweden, to ensure smooth and comfortable ride on Duronto train which will soon run on the Mumbai-Secunderabad section, the Chief Mechanical Engineer, Mr Charanjit Singh, said.

There was a general complaint of spilling of meals during journey due to jerks, said RCF Chief Design Engineer, Mr Ravi Kochak, who worked to overcome jerks in Shatabadi, Rajdhani and Duronto trains.

Mr Kochak noted these coaches would reach Secundrabad in three days and would be put on trial by the Research Development and Standard organisation (RDSO) for two to three weeks before bringing it into service.

He disclosed that RCF will roll out another nine jerk-free coaches within the next few days and send them to Secunderabad.

The Chief Design Engineer said railway officials, who tested it during its journey from here to Secunderabad, today confirmed the ride in these coaches was “very smooth and comfortable compared with the coaches of Shatabdi and Rajdhani trains.”

RCF has imported these tight-lock centre-buffer couplers from Sweden to ensure smooth ride on Shatabdi, Rajdhani and Duronto trains. The factory imported 60 couplers with double cushion and fitted on both ends of the coach as these couplers help in attaching the coaches.

Kochak said these couplers are being used in the high-speed trains abroad and tested by Research Development and Standard Organisation in Sweden. He said bumpy ride is mainly attributed to large number of coaches attached to one train.

If, the experiment proved successful then the old couplers of all the Shatabdi and Rajdhani trains would be replaced with the new design, Mr Kochak said.

Explaining the feature of double acting couplers with cushion materials on both sides, Mr Kochak said during the acceleration of speed or application of brakes, these couplers could absorb the jerks due to its double cushion and would also help in minimising the effect of an accident on the passengers.

He said the cost of one coupler is Rs 2 lakh and two couplers are fitted on both the ends one coach.

Dellner Company of Sweden which supplied these couplers has set up a plant in the Chennai.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 03 Apr 2011 06:52

kmc_chacko wrote:IIR Ministry should think and should not encourage political agenda in IR's budget. Our Ex-IR Minister Mr. Laluji fooled us for 5 years with his colourful words now it seems the is for Mamataji's.

This is incorrect, read mamta's own white paper that she brought out to discredit Lalu so she could run railway for own political ends or philosophy.

Even with her own parameters chosen in her white paper to review railway performance by railway minsters. She could only bring down lalu's rank to the second best railway minster ever. In a impartial performance comparison he might be the best railway minister ever.

Account changes were all above board, in right direction, duly approved and fully disclosed in all of the Railway annual accounts. Mamta did not change anything in any of the railway accounts under Lalu.

Other ways that she used to discredit him were claiming that railway should have grown at least 125+% of economic growth while it grew only ~100% (IIRC) so lalu failed. She also compared railway progress in lalu’s time with growth of railway in China and claimed he failed.

Under lalu railway's performance in real asset growth, quality, safety and efficiency were all one of the best ever if not the best, as per mamta's own white paper.

Lalu represents worst of politicians of our country who single handedly destroyed great state of Bihar but as Railway minister he did try genuinely to change and did succeed.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 03 Apr 2011 07:23

Posting from Chennai-Mysore Shatabdi express. Extremely good exp so far. Good LHB rakes, clean toilets, customer service. Yes, fellow passenger complained about cabin temp being a bit on higher side to theTTE. He immeditely got the technician to take a look, who adjusted the temp setting. He came back after a while with digital te mp gauge, showed the reading to the passenger who had complained.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 03 Apr 2011 08:20

+1 to that. Posting from phone (vodafone edge)

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Apr 2011 14:24

Prasad wrote:Wouldn't a point-to-point service with a few stops in between be a better solution? The railways i'm sure already has enough data to determine what % of passenger traffic travels from start to finish and stops in between and push trains that stop only at few stations.

This has been tried by the IR, and that too some 5-10 years back. For example, take the case of Kerala. In 99% of the cases what happens is that a train leaving MAS or SBC would run with the bare minimum stoppages upto PGT (JTJ/TPT,ED,SA and CBE are pretty much the stops). But after that even the express trains start crawling. The reason. Due to political compulsions, the train is forced to stop at pretty much every station down the line. And then the "express train" pretty much becomes an over-qualified passenger/commuter train. Things have gone to such a bad shape, that season ticket holders (i.e regular commuters between two major stations) started "demanding" that certain express trains should have their timings changed.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 03 Apr 2011 22:06

Indian Railways minister has announced lifetimepass in the 1st AC for Indian Cricketers.Indian cricketers were great.

First AC Lifetime Railway pass to winning Indian cricket team
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spor ... 858098.cms

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 04 Apr 2011 08:15

Prasad wrote:Wouldn't a point-to-point service with a few stops in between be a better solution?

That is precisely what trains like Rajdhani, Shatabdi and Duronto do...Issue in India with speed is the quality of tracks..The tracks in India are not designed for high speeds - on certain sections yes, but not for the full journey between, say, Howrah and Delhi..

BTW, cost effectiveness of high speed railways is also an issue....there are lots of questions on whether high speed rail makes sense economically, especially over long distances..I read somewhere that high speed rail is a viable proposition only for journeys upto 500 kms...

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 Apr 2011 13:57

somnath wrote:That is precisely what trains like Rajdhani, Shatabdi and Duronto do...Issue in India with speed is the quality of tracks..The tracks in India are not designed for high speeds - on certain sections yes, but not for the full journey between, say, Howrah and Delhi.

Amen. I don't think it is just the tracks but the over-all infrastructure. The trains would not have a consistent run at high speeds due to very many reasons. Over congested routes, and then signalling limitations. Plus other issues like cattle, people etc. hopping across the tracks. I dont know perhaps quadrupling the main railway lines would ease this problem.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Apr 2011 09:24

Nilgiri Mountain Railways fails yet again.
This has been a rather monotonous affair now. This time, even the new engine which was put into service a few weeks back has failed. May be a teething problem, but this issue of frequent failure needs to be fixed once and for all.

With train services being hit on the Nilgiri Mountain Railway on Tuesday, a large number of tourists were disappointed. Railway sources told TheHindu that the Coonoor-bound train hauled by the indigenously made steam locomotive, which had recently been added to the fleet of engines of the NMR, had stopped shortly after it left Mettupalayam with about 200 passengers. The engine had developed a technical problem.

A relief engine was sent to the spot to take the train back to Mettupalayam and arrangements were made to bring the passengers up by buses.

The problem led to cancellation of services between Coonoor and Mettupalayam. The sources said that the services would resume on Wednesday. Meanwhile NMR enthusiasts here and at Coonoor said that the problems confronting the NMR have become a serious source of concern. Pointing out that a couple of days ago, a loco problem had subjected the passengers to considerable inconvenience, they hoped that the railway ministry will join hands with the Southern Railway and tackle the problems.

Edwin David, a citizen who has documented various aspects of the NMR opined that the ministry should also seriously explore the possibility of forming a corporation to exclusively maintain the NMR. He cautioned that if warning signs continue to be ignored, the NMR will be consigned to the pages of history in a matter of time. Adverting to its recognition as a World Heritage Site by the UNESCO, the Convenor, Indian National Trust forArt, Culture and Heritage (INTACH), the Nilgiris Chapter Geetha Srinivasan pointed out that the NMR is the sole reason for a large number of tourists from India and abroad visiting the Nilgiris.

“It is high time the authorities concerned took note of this fact”. Pointing out that the season in this vacation destination is in full swing, the Secretary, Nilgiri Hotels and Restaurants Association (NHRA), N. Chandrashekar said that “many of the tourists want to see or experience all the attractions in the Nilgiris in as little a time as possible. If they happen to be on a train which runs into problems enroute, their sight-seeing plans will be thrown out of gear.”

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 06 Apr 2011 16:07

SSridhar wrote:This has been a rather monotonous affair now. This time, even the new engine which was put into service a few weeks back has failed. May be a teething problem, but this issue of frequent failure needs to be fixed once and for all.

Had read reports that a loco Shed in Tamil Nadu (Thiruchirappalli??) had come up with a good plan to convert these coal-using steam locomotives to be made to use oil (oil-fired steam engines). If I am not mistaken they had also converted to one or two locos. IIRC these locos were originally built by a Swiss firm, nearly a century back so now it is become practically an "IR's baby" (to support and nourish).

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Apr 2011 17:18

Sachin, the one that failed is the new oil-fired engine. Yes, it is Goldenrock Workshop that has built 4 engines.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 09 Apr 2011 23:42

just thought , it might be of interest here.
Shinkansen lines 'shrink' nation

The entire super-express Kyushu Shinkansen Line, linking the cities of Fukuoka and Kagoshima, was quietly opened March 12, a day after the massive earthquake and tsunami hit northeastern Japan. This follows the December opening of the completed Tohoku Shinkansen Line linking Tokyo and Shin Aomori. Now the top of Honshu and bottom of Kyushu are connected by shinkansen lines, although one has to change trains at Tokyo Station.

Japan's fastest bullet train, the Hayabusa, made its debut last month, traveling at speeds up to 300 kph to link Tokyo with Shin Aomori in a mere three hours and 10 minutes (although service on some parts of the line are suspended due to quake damage). On the Kyushu Shinkansen Line, the fastest trains can link Fukuoka city's Hakata station and Kagoshima Chuo station in one hour and 19 minutes, Kumamoto station and Shin Osaka station in two hours and 59 minutes, and Kagoshima Chuo and Shin Osaka in three hours and 45 minutes — about one hour less than before.

The faster travel times mean that competition between shinkansen services and domestic airline services will grow more fierce. But if shinkansen services and international airline services can cooperate, they may be able to mutually benefit by attracting more tourists from overseas. The nation's tourism industry also needs to raise its level of service to ensure it is as accommodating as possible to tourists from abroad.

JR Hakata Station is located in Japan's largest commercial station building, which was opened March 12 to great fanfare. Fukuoka city is now a mere 33 minutes from Kumamoto, stirring fears in some locales that their traditional tourism customers may now choose to spend their leisure time in Hakata instead. They should remember that the door swings both ways and develop a strategy to attract new tourists from Fukuoka city.

Their stations are really amazing. Almost everything.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 11 Apr 2011 13:46

joshvajohn wrote:Indian Railways minister has announced lifetimepass in the 1st AC for Indian Cricketers.Indian cricketers were great.

First AC Lifetime Railway pass to winning Indian cricket team
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spor ... 858098.cms

Just for an intellectual discussion here, how will this work exactly?

When the bookings are opened on the IRCTC website for a train journey, and the AC tickets all get booked, then say a cricketer has to travel on the same train, so what will he be required to do? Will the Railways cancel the ticket of a legitimate traveler to accomodate him?

Or does the cricketer still stand in the que, so to speak, to book the ticket, only that he does not have to pay for it?

Suppose a cricketer is booking a ticket on IRCTC, does he get an option to choose that he does not have to pay money, or does he pay then, and then apply for a refund from the railways?

Does the cricketer simply have to show up at the station at the date of the journey and the station master will take care of the rest?

Does the cricketer contact the railways authority directly to book a ticket? Do the Indian railways have a special cell where they cater to people who do not have to pay, such as the VIPee's and cricketers etc?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Apr 2011 14:05

Vasu wrote:
joshvajohn wrote:Indian Railways minister has announced lifetimepass in the 1st AC for Indian Cricketers.Indian cricketers were great.

First AC Lifetime Railway pass to winning Indian cricket team
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spor ... 858098.cms
Just for an intellectual discussion here, how will this work exactly?

When the bookings are opened on the IRCTC website for a train journey, and the AC tickets all get booked, then say a cricketer has to travel on the same train, so what will he be required to do? Will the Railways cancel the ticket of a legitimate traveler to accomodate him?

Or does the cricketer still stand in the que, so to speak, to book the ticket, only that he does not have to pay for it?

Suppose a cricketer is booking a ticket on IRCTC, does he get an option to choose that he does not have to pay money, or does he pay then, and then apply for a refund from the railways?

Does the cricketer simply have to show up at the station at the date of the journey and the station master will take care of the rest?

Does the cricketer contact the railways authority directly to book a ticket? Do the Indian railways have a special cell where they cater to people who do not have to pay, such as the VIPee's and cricketers etc?

There are tickets allocated to MP/MLA, now maybe addl tickets will be allocated to cricketers.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 11 Apr 2011 14:24

krishnan wrote:There are tickets allocated to MP/MLA, now maybe addl tickets will be allocated to cricketers.

And there is also the concept of EQ (Emergency Quota). So guess these fellows would get the freebie tickets, and then if it is a kind of last minute booking get the reservations on the EQ. EQ would be separate from the normal ticketing capacity, so no genuine passenger would be denied a ticket at the last moment. EQ would get "released" before 4 hours of the train journey, if that quota has some vacant seats.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 14 Apr 2011 18:34

China Puts Brakes on High-Speed Trains From Wall Street Journal. The WSJ article is for subscribers only. But a ripped version can be accessed over here

Also the China daily is running an article titled Ministry puts brake on nation's fast trains

Provided that the above ripped article is true some noteworthy points from the wall street journal are as follows

High speed trains will begin operating at a maximum 300 kilometers an hour July 1 compared with previous speeds of up to 350 kilometers an hour. Many of the country's intercity trains will operate between 200 and 250 kilometers per hour.
....
He said the measures aim to make ticket prices more flexible, but didn't specify how much ticket prices could be reduced by.
Improving energy efficiency in high-speed trains is one reason for the change, Mr. Sheng said.
Trains operating at 350 kilometers an hour require twice as much energy as those operating at 200 kilometers and hour, he said, resulting in higher energy and maintenance costs.
....
Tickets for high-speed trains can be twice as expensive as the highest-class tickets on regular speed trains.
A high-speed rail ticket between eastern China's Wuhan and Guangzhou, for example, costs 469 yuan, or about $70.
That is prohibitively expensive for many Chinese, and has resulted in at least some trains operating almost empty, industry experts say.
....
Xinhua said last month that the country's railway companies have accumulated about 1.8 trillion yuan, or roughly $271 billion, in debt.

Again and again we see that china has not learnt the Japanese lessons, but has blindly followed Japanese foot steps. Japanese also loaded up their so called bullet train company with so much debt that it would be barely viable. I certainly hope that we in India are more receptive to the mistakes that japan and china have made.

Basically any train touching 300 kmph or exceeding 300 kmph need tracks which are for all practical purposes straight as an arrow. Secondly due to the nature of the current railway systems, maintenance of such high speed tracks is expensive. Thirdly the investment required to make such tracks, sealing off approaches, constructing flyovers, etc are expensive. That is why building passenger high-speed railway systems has not been economically efficient anywhere on this planet.

If we wish to make 350 kmph+ railway passenger travel economically viable, firstly we will need to find a way to transport freight on the tracks which will carry passenger trains too, that is if we are able to find business who are willing to pay for such freight transport on such high speeds first. Secondly we will need for the maglev technology to mature and become economical.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 Apr 2011 18:58

That economic reason given by Panda is for H/D purposes only. It has been reported many times that there are problems with the quality and long term stability of these quickly built lines. The Chinese have ignore all manner of design and engineering principles to built them so quickly. Foundations are settling and perfect alignment is not being maintained. Watch for another drop from 300 kmph to 250 kmph.

Also bulk freight (majority of money) will never run on High speed lines. Weight would damage lines.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 14 Apr 2011 20:56

200-250kmph is still substantial and a massive ramp up from what used to be the default case a decade ago. That they blew massive amounts of money trying to reach for 350+ km/h is the cost of their own hubris. I would love to see IR running 200-250km/h mainline passenger services, without pissing money down the drain like Chinese railways, of course.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Apr 2011 23:20

Sachin wrote:
krishnan wrote:There are tickets allocated to MP/MLA, now maybe addl tickets will be allocated to cricketers.
And there is also the concept of EQ (Emergency Quota). So guess these fellows would get the freebie tickets, and then if it is a kind of last minute booking get the reservations on the EQ. EQ would be separate from the normal ticketing capacity, so no genuine passenger would be denied a ticket at the last moment. EQ would get "released" before 4 hours of the train journey, if that quota has some vacant seats.

EQ released = tatkal ?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 14 Apr 2011 23:56

Rahul M wrote: EQ released = tatkal ?

EQ released go into the pooled quota. tatkal is a different quota.

There are quotas like
i) Emergency quota/headquarters quota
ii) remote station quota - for passengers of stations in the middle
iii) originating station quota - for passengers of stations who go almost entire length
iv) tatkal quota
and so on

also ii, iii have their waiting lists and RACs. Almost always avoid remote station quota waiting list, I forgot its designation. These are low in priority order.

http://www.indiamike.com/india/indian-r ... t63844/21/

This thread can give you more info

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 17 Apr 2011 03:41

Suraj wrote: I would love to see IR running 200-250km/h mainline passenger services, without pissing money down the drain like Chinese railways, of course.

The only way to do this is to move freight onto its own dedicated lines. Rather than HSR this is what we should focus on. Our passenger lines are very convenient as they pass right through cities. We can upgrade and straiten out the curves and gradually increase the average speeds to 200 kmph+. Already there are a few stretches where 150 kmph average speeds are maintained.

To go faster we will need new rolling stock, Aluminium and Fiberglass. Even then getting our new 24 & 26 coach trains to that speed will be a challenge. Sleepers will have to be eliminated.

Which brings me to,.. ..WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH THE DEDICATED FREIGHT CORRIDOR.. ..6 years now and not a km of rail has been laid. According to Wiki there are 17 managers drawing fat salaries without a railway to run! WTF. The entire lot need to be fired and replaced right now.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 17 Apr 2011 05:16

New system to increase capacity of goods trains

The locotrol system will save railways time and ensure speedy delivery of goods

To further boost their freight business by delivering maximum goods in minimum time, the railways has come up with a brand new idea. In July, the Ahmedabad Railway Division (ARD) will introduce a locotrol system that will

involve three locomotives running a fully-loaded goods train.

The train, with a capacity to carry 1 lakh tonne of goods, will thus be able to carry more number of wagons as the pulling power will be distributed throughout the length of the train.

The locotrol system will also allow the train to disjoin enroute — this means one train could be made into three or four trains.

For example, instead of three trains carrying goods from Ahmedabad station to Mumbai, Kochi and Kolkata stations, the ARD will now run one long train. The difference being, the train will be pulled by three locomotives.

At a specific location, the train will disjoin to form three separate trains, with one heading to Mumbai, the other to Kochi and the third to Kolkata.

In a locotrol system, the communication between the lead and remote locomotive/s is achieved via radio wireless communication link. There will be an assistant pilot in each locomotive.

The system will also help the railways cope better with staff shortage.

A senior railway official said: “The locotrol system will allow us to deliver goods at a faster pace, thus saving us a lot of time. It will also ensure optimal utilisation of tracks and boost our earnings remarkably.”

link

saip · Post by **saip** » 17 Apr 2011 06:32

The train, with a capacity to carry 1 lakh tonne of goods, will thus be able to carry more number of wagons as the pulling power will be distributed throughout the length of the train.

100,000 tones per train? Must be a typo. At 60 tonnes or so per wagon the train has to have 1600 wagons.

manish · Post by **manish** » 17 Apr 2011 08:48

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Which brings me to,.. ..WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH THE DEDICATED FREIGHT CORRIDOR.. ..6 years now and not a km of rail has been laid. According to Wiki there are 17 managers drawing fat salaries without a railway to run! WTF. The entire lot need to be fired and replaced right now.

The problem seems to be at the very top saar, it was didi who stalled the land acquisition process - I guess she wants to replicate the 'Singur Model' everywhere!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Apr 2011 09:30

Mumbai-Delhi Rajdhani catches fire

Three coaches of the Mumbai-Delhi Rajdhani train caught fire in the wee hours today in Madhya Pradesh’s Ratlam district. All passengers are safe.

“At around 2 a.m., three coaches including the pantry car, caught fire between Bikramgarh Alot and Phuria stations in Kota division,” Railways spokesperson Mr Anil Saxena said.

Three fire tenders were rushed to the spot and the blaze has been brought under control. The couplings of the coaches were detached immediately by the railway staff to stop the spread of fire, he said.

The cause of the fire, which started from the pantry car of the Delhi bound train, is yet to be ascertained.

Though none was injured in the incident, the railways has declared ex-gratia of Rs 5,000 for the passengers of coaches B6 and B7, which were affected by the blaze, the spokesperson said.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Apr 2011 13:13

Railways to opt for LHB coaches in all trains

In the wake of the fire mishap in Rajdhani Express, railways are planning to introduce in general mail and express trains German technology-based Linke Holfmann Bush (LHB) coaches which have fire-retardant quality and advanced couplers.

Currently LHB coaches are being used only in premier trains like Rajdhani, Shatabdi and Duronto.

"We are planning to introduce LHB coaches in mail and express trains in a gradual manner as these coaches are equipped with fire retardant material and advanced couplers to join coaches," said a senior Railway Ministry official.

While it costs Rs 1.5 crore to manufacture a conventional coach, the LHB coach costs about Rs 2.5 crore.

LHB coaches are anti-telescopic and cannot turn turtle in the event of any derailment or collision, the official said.

The LHB coaches, manufactured under technology- transfer from Germany, have automatic couplers to join two coaches. Unlike conventional coaches where one needs to go inside the coach and move through the vestibule to uncouple two coaches, these advanced couplers can be very easily uncoupled from the outside.

Within minutes after the fire started in the pantry in the Mumbai Rajdhani near Thuriya station in Ratlam on Monday, railway staff uncoupled the three passenger coaches from the pantry. The fire-retardant material used in the coaches ensured that there were no toxic fumes and black smoke that could have hindered visibility.

"All passengers were able to come out of the coaches in time and no passenger was hurt in the fire because of LHB coaches," said the official.

Earlier also Rajdhani passengers had a miraculous escape after the Bhubaneswar-New Delhi Rajdhani Express derailed near Gaya. "The derailed LHB coaches stuck to the ground soon after the derailment instead of capsizing and rolling over as a result all passengers were safe."

Besides the safety aspects, the LHB coaches offer better comforts to passengers.

"The LHB coaches are fitted with microprocessor controlled high capacity air conditioning system, which gives passengers better comforts during summer and winter season," said the official.

Railways have plans to manufacture 3,500 coaches including 500 LHB coaches in the current fiscal.