2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Mar 2011 13:59

US troops help teens clean tsunami-hit school

US troops have joined students and Japanese Self-Defense Force personnel in cleaning up high school buildings in Ishinomaki City, which was hit by the massive tsunami on March 11th.

The tsunami flooded the buildings and the gymnasium of Ishinomaki technical high school with more than one meter of water. The facilities were covered in muddy sludge and debris.

Fifty personnel from the US Marines and Army, 40 Japanese Ground Self-Defense Force members and 60 students set to work on Wednesday, removing mud from the buildings.

School Principal Hideki Oguro expressed appreciation for the efforts.

He said he wanted to clean up the school after the tsunami, but was unable to do so because they didn't have running water.

A male student said he feels grateful for the help. He added that he hopes to welcome new students in a clean gymnasium, where he himself attended an enrollment ceremony.

US Marines' 1st Lieutenant Sean McMahon said they have been very impressed with the spirit of the Japanese people. He said they feel for the loss and tragedy that happened, and that he believes the people can get back on their feet.

The school plans to hold a delayed 2nd round of entrance exams next Tuesday and an enrollment ceremony on April 21st.
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 14:13 +0900 (JST)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Mar 2011 14:22

As per reports if there is Pu in the soil and/or water outside the reactors and the is also Pu in the reactors the possibilities are
1) The Pu was always there
2) It was placed there by external agencies (RAW/Mossad/CIA)
3) The Pu has leaked out from the reactor/s
4) The measurements are wrong. Accelerometers have failed and the yield was only 2 kt instead of planned 1 megaton.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 30 Mar 2011 14:25

you missed Pu fallout from alien star ship close encounters
you know, the kind where they abduct you and conduct curious scientific (false science of course) experiments on you

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Mar 2011 17:07

The IAEA was looking for 206 kg of Pu in Japan.. perhaps that is where it was?

Missing' plutonium leaves nuclear industry red-faced
By Shane Green

January 30 2003

About 200 kilograms of plutonium produced by a Japanese nuclear plant - enough to make 25 nuclear bombs - have technically gone "missing", Japanese authorities have revealed.

But Tokyo and the United Nations' nuclear watchdog maintain that the shortfall is the result of miscalculation and measuring errors, rather than the plutonium being diverted for weapons production.

The Japanese Government has informed the International Atomic Energy Agency that since 1977, the Tokai nuclear reprocessing plant, 100 kilometres north-east of Tokyo, has extracted 6890 kilograms from spent nuclear fuel - 206 kilograms less than initial projections.

Inquiries into the "missing" plutonium began in 1987 after the agency pointed out that the plant's records showed discrepancies.

Japanese officials said on Tuesday the shortfall was the result of problems in calculating the amount of plutonium, and the dilution of it into waste water.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Mar 2011 18:26

WaPo reports;

4 of 6 reactors cant be fixed. TEPCO President in hospital

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 30 Mar 2011 18:47

Sanku wrote:Chernobyl where the moderator rods could not be inserted could be entombed safely after all

Actually it has not been safely entombed. The concrete was poured in as a last desperate measure to contain the molten fluid. Concrete only has a life of 100 years or so. So some time this century all that material is going to start become free again. You don't entomb nuclear material safely long term on the surface.

I hope they start building the Sarcophagus soon. The longer they wait the more contamination gets out. At Chernobyl tons of contaminated water was pumped out and then concrete poured in. In a year the core and spent fuel should be cool enough that they can be disassociated and concreted. Also note there is no way to treat the contaminated water pumped out. Into the ocean it goes. In Chernobyl it was dealing with decommissioning that caused numerous fatalities. Most upper areas of the plant probably have a 1 minute or less safe exposure threshold.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Mar 2011 20:15

No one can guarantee that a 1/millionth gram speck of plutonium will not find its way into your lungs where it can prove fatal. That is all it would take. In such aerosolized form 10 kg of Plutonium is enough to kill every last human on earth. That is its true potential.

The amount circulated by these fatawa_on_pu_wallas is something like 0.6 Kg kill every last human being. This of course, will be, endlessly repeated ...

But from someone who brought
2 bananas + 2 bananas = 4 bananas

Some perspective: ( Disclaimer: Do your own checking)

Amount of Pu deposited due to 1950-60's testing alone on earth soil is of the order of tons.

As posted before Plutonium is a thousand times less poisonous than botulism (the active ingredient in botox)

If you are not familiar with botulism, let me take more common substance.. caffeine.

If eaten : Ld50 dose of caffeine (about 10 gm (?) ) is calculated to be less than Pu - . .
(Human data, of course, is not available.. but animal data is)

(If you eat, radiation due to alpha and beta rays don't play that crucial a part. Alpha rays do not penetrate skin. Pu getting in lungs is most dangerous)

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Mar 2011 20:22

ramana wrote:WaPo reports;

4 of 6 reactors cant be fixed. TEPCO President in hospital

From the same story: Officials said Wednesday that he was suffering from hypertension and dizziness.

(See cleverness of the headline: The fact that that horrible >100 mSV dose may not be the cause will not stop people posting here "17 people in serious condition in hospital"

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Mar 2011 20:25

Gerard wrote:The IAEA was looking for 206 kg of Pu in Japan.. perhaps that is where it was?

(Don't worry did not spill my coffee .. caffeine being more toxic than Pu and all that....)

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 30 Mar 2011 20:31

^^^ story in bloomberg says that tepco went for sea water early knowing fully well that the plant would be unusable afterwards, so i guess we should not be surprised that shutdown is the only thing to do. same story carried a telling off from japanese gov to tepco to not give out false figures - apparently the x 10^6 rad level they announced was actually a x 10^4 rad level in the trench below reactor 2

my guess is that this elevated level comes from dousing the outer reactor with water which gathers up the steam, etc. and rolls down into the 'well' below and concentrates the radiation

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Mar 2011 20:42

AmberG, Heard Helen Caldecott on radio sounding very Cassandrish about core melt down, reactor vessel breached and the molten fuel lying on the concrete floor and sea water used for cooling dissociating to form hydrogen gas bubble and exploding and making all of Japan unlivable for centuries!!!

Sounded more like a curse than a scenario!

My beef is how did the Brits become experts on nukes?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Mar 2011 21:19

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ story in bloomberg says that tepco went for sea water early knowing fully well that the plant would be unusable afterwards, so i guess we should not be surprised that shutdown is the only thing to do. same story carried a telling off from japanese gov to tepco to not give out false figures - apparently the x 10^6 rad level they announced was actually a x 10^4 rad level in the trench below reactor 2

my guess is that this elevated level comes from dousing the outer reactor with water which gathers up the steam, etc. and rolls down into the 'well' below and concentrates the radiation

Lalmohan - With introduction of sea water and feed-and-bleed (remember all that latent heat discussion about steam/water/ice) method, virtually everyone (even my posts here mentioned it almost right away) knew that plant will be unusable. The cleanup effort will take years (that may again become main news - xyz now says it will take 10 years).

You may be right for the reason of elevated level, in any case we will soon know the origin and the root cause. I believe those are responsible for action, already know much more. With radio-active tracing (It is easy to introduce trace-isotopes, for example) it is not hard to find the origin of elevated dose and the path it is taking.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Mar 2011 21:20

Marten:
Sorry. I have edited the post.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Mar 2011 21:24

Guys lets not lose our cool. No point in getting into fights over words ment or not ment.

Thanks, ramana

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Mar 2011 22:11

...Seawater near Japan's quake-hit Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has a much higher level of radiation than previously reported, officials say.

In one section, radioactive iodine stood at 3,355 times the legal limit, said Japan's nuclear safety agency.

What would be helpful, are absolute numbers, not how many "times" it is from "previously reported" (Never mind, the subtle hint - may be previous report was a lie and now they are forced to admit the "higher" dose ... rather than may be time and place of where the reading was taken may be the cause, which would be least surprising)

Besides, unless there is sudden need to drink 5000 tons (or whatever the Ld50 dose would be) of iodine laced water right away, even if there is no dispersion, the level will be 1/2000 of the present value.. in .. oh .. about 3 months...

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Mar 2011 22:31

Theo_Fidel -

Few comments to add -

- In general (at least in US, required by law) concrete and all, after a NPP is scrapped, goes to Yuca mountain type facility. Like all other NPP's, Japan's NPP's final resting place (that includes, fuel rods, steel, Zr, concrete, Cs extracted from treated water, etc) will be something like that. This will take place in next 5-20 years time-frame.

- The majority of deaths at Chernobyl were fire-fighters and NPP workers. The next big group was those who kept drinking stuff like local milk from cows grazing Iodine laced grass. Later cleanup of Chernobyl and the site caused virtually zero fatalities. (100's of thousands took part in cleaning the area)

- At Chernobyl about a 1000 ton of (radioactive) stuff spewed out. The plant was graphite moderated and burning graphite was the main thing of explosion/fire.

- The typical time the spent fuel remains inside water is measured in years

Hth.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Mar 2011 23:34

Heard Helen Caldecott on radio sounding very Cassandrish about core melt down

She has practically made a career out of being a nuclear Cassandra

vina · Post by **vina** » 30 Mar 2011 23:43

AmberG, we will go on and on about this Fukushima thing and yes, the news flow will bounce around between good and bad by the day and slowly taper off as things stabilize and media loses interest and it goes off the front page.

The financial markets lost interest already. For eg, the day of the first hydrogen explosion, the markets tanked, I bet against that and knew that Japan and India have hardly any worthwhile trade and bought when the market went down and made money and the market has been up since then and keeps going up!

So, I do think it is time to move on from the focus towards the causes (we know why it happened and more importantly the reasons why crucial decisions @ the plant in terms of flood height etc were what they were.. and to folks like Sanku etc , it is not a case of "Japanese cheated /hid facts/or a Joo Kanspiracy to put nuclear material in vaccines ") and on to what next with nuclear power. What really must be done differently in terms of plant design and what kind of learning can we got from say airlines or similar industries , which because of the systems,design methodologies, regulation, multiple redundancies and safety culture is one of the safest means of transport and that too in something as un natural as flying for man and a failure in the air in the absence of such measures is certain death?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 31 Mar 2011 01:20

Was curious, so took a dekho at wiki about toxicity of Pu.. Made some interesting reading...Read the original to get full context
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium#Toxicity

(Selection and emphasis are mine)

The "hot particle" theory in which a particle of plutonium dust radiates a localized spot of lung tissue has been tested and found false – such particles are more mobile than originally thought and toxicity is not measurably increased due to particulate form.[89]

<snip>
[93]

A commonly cited quote by Ralph Nader, states that a pound of plutonium dust spread into the atmosphere would be enough to kill 8 billion people. However, the math shows that only up to 2 million people can be killed by inhaling plutonium. This makes the toxicity of plutonium roughly equivalent with that of nerve gas. [94]

Several populations of people who have been exposed to plutonium dust .... have been carefully followed and analyzed.

These studies generally do not show especially high plutonium toxicity or plutonium-induced cancer results.[89] "There were about 25 workers from Los Alamos National Laboratory who inhaled a considerable amount of plutonium dust during the 1940's; according to the hot-particle theory, each of them has a 99.5% chance of being dead from lung cancer by now {50-60 year} , but there has not been a single lung cancer among them."[95][96]

Plutonium has a metallic taste.[97 {How do they know?}

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 31 Mar 2011 01:28

^^^ By the way the team which followed and studied the LANL victims, was blessed by Glen Seaborg, Nobel Laurate, discoverer of plutonium, a man who spent much of his professional life determining its chemical properties...

And something to think about:

..know that at least 22 men have been able to live more than 40 years after ingesting “the most toxic substance known to man.” It should make one question the motives and accuracy of Ralph Nader, a public figure who has actively promoted such an obviously inaccurate statement.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 31 Mar 2011 01:39

^^^ And if one googles about toxicity of Plutonium, caffeine, etc.. one finds this
http://www.nucleartownhall.com/blog/tag/ralph-nader/

Probably no one has labored longer and harder to convince the public that the dangers of nuclear power are being exaggerated than Dr. Bernard Cohen, professor emeritus of physics at the University of Pittsburgh. In the 1970s and 1980s, Dr. Cohen worked tirelessly to refute the exaggerated claims of critics, both through careful research and through popular articles. He also had a flair for the dramatic. On “The Tonight Show” he offered to eat as much plutonium on camera as Ralph Nader would eat caffeine. Nader never took the challenge.

A recipient of the Tom Bonner Prize from the American Physical Society, the Walter Zinn Award from the American Nuclear Society, the Distinguished Scientific Achievement Award from the Health Physics Society, and a member of the National Academy of Engineering, he is still active in promoting the need for nuclear power, sitting on the advisory board of the U.S. .....
... Maybe people are finally paying attention to what Dr. Cohen has to say.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 31 Mar 2011 01:49

A Q - Guys what is the easiest way to archive a thread on your HD (how do I change page size so that all pages can be printed?) TIA
Edited Later: Thanks Bade, AremnT

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 31 Mar 2011 01:53

ArmenT had a solution to this as I recall.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 31 Mar 2011 03:24

Mit site has update for 30th March.
Talks about Pu, Radiation in trenches, and other points discussed here..
(Read it in full to get context)

Plutonium Found in Soil

Soil samples collected from five locations around the Fukushima Daiichi site were found to contain trace amounts of plutonium. These trace amounts are in roughly the same quantities as the amounts left behind by nearby nuclear weapons tests, and are not considered a threat to human health, according to JAIF. Only two of the sites are believed to contain plutonium originating in the troubled reactors, with the rest being the result of the nuclear weapons tests. It is not known from which reactor the observed plutonium might have come, or how it was deposited in the soil. A companion post will discuss this, and the health effects of plutonium.

Water Accumulations

Contaminated water has accumulated in the basements and turbine rooms of units 1-3, and the basement of unit 4. Efforts are underway to clean up and store this water, preventing it from entering the environment, and allowing crews to continue servicing the electrical connections in the basement of each reactor.

Each reactor building additionally has a trench outside it which is concrete-encased, and holds cables and piping for its associated reactor. The trenches outside units 1-4 have flooded with contaminated water. The trenches do not flow to the ocean, and are currently being sandbagged so that they do not overflow and carry radionuclides elsewhere. TEPCO has released a nuclide analysis of trench 1 (http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-co ... 0330e2.pdf) which shows that the trench contains low levels of fission products, and no uranium or plutonium. Dose rates at the surface of this trench are around 0.4 milliSievert per hour. Dose rates at Unit 2’s trench are high, at 1000 milliSieverts per hour. This high dose rate indicates that the water has been in contact with molten fuel for some time. The pathway through which this water made it to the trench is not known at this time. { This is most likely will not be hard to know - my comments}

Measurements have been taken of seawater 30 km from the facility, and have indicated that only fission products, in small quantities, have made their way to the sea. These quantities, in amounts shown here (http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-co ... 0330e7.pdf) are far too low to impact human health. Fish from the region have been tested, and a have shown levels of Cs-137 at or just above the level of detection. These levels are below those of concern for fish consumption.
<snip>

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 31 Mar 2011 04:38

somnath wrote:
Singha wrote:+1 to that. I had asked about concrete with lead granules ... but maybe the raging fires then would have burnt the concrete too.
Can a concrete sarcophagus be built while the reactor core is still being cooled through a messy, manual process? Would a massive earthworks project be able to be executed in these conditions? While water is inside the containment dome and flooding sundry other places?

Chernobyl case: There was tons (hundreds of) of fuel (+fission products), along with exploding graphite which was all over. So entombing it in concrete made sense (what else can be done?), for, if nothing else, to keep the material from spreading further along with shielding gamma rays. (Gamma rays do get attuned even by air (thats why we do not worry about radiation from cosmic rays as astronauts do

- while radioactive fall out may travel thousands of mile)

Also note that, for example, for spent fuel rods (much more in quantity then reactor water is a good radiation shield. (As said before, 10 meter of water is like meter thick concrete wall). One needs to check, specially after fire (or fuel rods getting hot etc) what have leaked from the pool etc.. but entombing what is left in concrete at this time does not make sense except where it is otherwise needed.

Prevent as much leakage as possible for now... long term everything radioactive (including steel, concrete, fission products) will go somewhere like Yucca Mtn.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 31 Mar 2011 04:57

Lalmohan wrote:concrete burka is not on the menu
Bloomberg: Tepco’s Reactors May Take 30 Years, $12 Billion to Scrap

a wider problem - beyond reactor shutdown - and affecting the US and India is fuel rod management and storage

Thanks for the nice article. This is also some of us have said here in brf including the time frame.

Problem of fuelk rod management is serious one. Ironically, IMO, anti-nuke-power lobby(or safe-nuke-power - depends on the view

) has made the problem politically worse because of reprocessing/disposal safety issues.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 31 Mar 2011 05:09

Just saw that it is now posted on MIT site, http://mitnse.com/2011/03/30/323/

The sources are: Journal of Radiological Protection, Los Alamos National Laboratory and TEPCO and it is consistent with what I have posted.

Read it for more details: (Topics covered)

- Plutonium in the Environment

- Measurements to date

Transport Pathways

Impact of Plutonium on Human Health

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 31 Mar 2011 07:05

There is no long term facility that will take commercial high level waste. Yucca mountain will never open due to 80%+ opposition in the state of Nevada. Even Yucca has a limit of 70,000 tons or so. Even less under certain operational conditions. There is already about 70,000 tons of just high level waste in the US alone.

There are several locations where low level waste can be disposed on in Japan itself. Mostly dry cask technology. Which is a terrible option long term on its own. Though they are really solid waste landfills and cant really handle liquids and wet waste. The liquids will likely end up in the ocean, similar to Russian practice. Japan does not have a High Level waste site though discussions have taken place.

There is no easy way to reprocess low level waste. High level waste can be reprocessed at a staggering cost. The Japanese reprocessing facility has cost $20 Billion+, is still not fully operational and can only process 600 tons or so annually. Japan adds more than this to its waste stockpile so they will stay behind the curve until they build more facilities for even more cost. The US operators have simply refused to build a reprocessing facility as virgin Uranium is so cheap. Several attempts to force them to do so by environmental groups have failed due to the cost. It is far far far cheaper to just store the waste in water pools indefinitely. This bad faith is part of the reason Nevada so overwhelmingly opposes Yucca. Also keep in mind that reprocessing generates staggering amounts of low level wastes. Even more liquids as well which also get dumped in the environment.

Long term a concrete tomb will be required, if only to prevent the elements from gradually seeping in and widening the pollution. There is really no way to avoid this. They should start now.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 31 Mar 2011 08:17

Good points. Well, this particular incident is going to put the nuclear industry under scanner even more. Rightly so. But so far, the enthusiasm of nuclear proponents squarely focuses on the nuclear science, while trying to deflect away any challenges to how the nuclear industry operates.

While everyone understands medicine as a science is beneficial, any challenge to how the medical industry operates is converted into a debate about medical science. That shift of the debate is not going to help make a good case.

That is the crux: the nuclear industry has to come out in open and address that instead of harping on nuclear science.
The way nuclear industry goes into a tizzy to any challenges to its operational issues is a cause for concern. The practice of the industry is going to be the bone of contention.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/30/spent. ... el/?hpt=T2

As of January 2010, an estimated 63,000 metric tons of spent fuel was in storage at U.S. power plants or storage facilities, according to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

"For the history of our nuclear power program, I would say, the storage of spent fuel... has been an afterthought," Ernest Moniz, a physics professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, testified. "I believe we should really start thinking hard about consolidated storage, presumably in federal reservations, to solve a host of problems."

A high-ranking energy department official, meanwhile, said a commission studying the issue of spent fuel will issue an interim report by July 29. The commission was formed after the Obama administration killed a plan to store nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain in Nevada.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 Mar 2011 11:15

Govt may spray resin on N-plant / Sticky material should keep down radiation

One step nearer to entombing.
If efficacious it would help design future procedures in case of such eventuality. Might also help in containg radioactive waste problems or defunct nuclear power plants ( 15 such NPP are reported off limits to humans and closed off in USA alone and many more are reaching the end of life and /speculation/ likely to be decommissioned in view of Fukushima /end speculation/)

The government will likely go ahead with a plan to spray resin inside the troubled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, which it hopes will contain the spread of radioactive substances, sources said Wednesday.

The government has begun full-fledged discussions on different plans to stop the spread of radioactive substances that have been leaking continuously from damaged reactors at the plant run by Tokyo Electric Power Co.

In addition to efforts to cool the reactors and spent nuclear fuel pools by TEPCO and the Self-Defense Forces, the government has asked for aid from private companies and other nations, including the United States, to deal with the accident.

It is believed spraying resin would minimize the spread of radioactive substances, which would allow repair work at the plant to proceed more smoothly, the sources said. Efforts to restore the reactors' cooling functions have seesawed repeatedly, with the detection Wednesday of radioactive iodine-131 at levels 3,355 times the legal limit in seawater near the plant being the latest wrench in the works.

Spraying resin on debris inside the plant could begin as early as Thursday, the government sources said. The operation would last for about two weeks, they said.

The plan involves using a remote-controlled robot to spray resin over about 80,000 square meters inside the 120,000-square-meter facility. The areas to be sprayed were contaminated by radiation from debris scattered by several hydrogen gas explosions in the days after the March 11 earthquake.

Synthetic resin would likely be used, possibly Kurita Water Industries Ltd.'s Kuricoat C-720 Green. The product is usually used to prevent dust and sand from being blown off reclaimed and developed land. Coating the debris with resin is expected to prevent the radioactive materials from spreading into the air.

The government had considered spraying resin from a helicopter, but about 3,000 flights would be necessary because only a limited amount could be sprayed each time. Since this method could also put helicopter crews in danger, the government rejected this option.

To address the about 25,000 square meters of buildings thought to be contaminated, such as those housing the reactors, some general contractors have proposed covering the structures with tents, covering the walls with sheets and other plans. But these plans could take months to complete, the sources said.

The government is also studying the possibility of using helicopters to spray other chemicals that could prevent the dispersal of radioactive substances.

Meanwhile, highly radioactive water in the basements of turbine buildings remains a big problem.

The Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism Ministry said it had considered dispatching port-use tankers to collect the contaminated water and then shuttle it via Maritime Self-Defense Force vessels to tankers anchored offshore. But the Defense Ministry deemed the plan too risky.

"We don't have the ability to completely isolate the radiation-contaminated water, so that would've put SDF personnel at too much risk," a ministry official said.

The government is now considering building temporary facilities for storing the contaminated water inside the plant and other options.
<snip>
The measures, however, are only stopgap, and the government said it would come up with more permanent solutions to contain the radioactive materials after temperatures in the nuclear fuel rod pools fall and the reactors stabilize.

"We have to end the crisis at the nuclear plant, minimize radioactive contamination of surrounding areas and prevent any health damage," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said at a press conference Wednesday. "To accomplish that, we have experts in various fields working on a variety of plans, including possibly covering [the buildings at the plant]."

(Mar. 31, 2011)

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 31 Mar 2011 12:04

As long as we are discussing Nuclear risks I went looking for Nuclear plants and Volcanoes in Japan.

Here is one just North of Fukushima. Volcano called Niseko. Active volcano, has not erupted for 7000 years. Nuclear plant 17 KM away. A little too close in my book. Useful to note that Pompeii was 10 km's from Vesuvius. There is evidence that pyroclastic flows extended up to Salerno 30 km's away.

These are the risks we take with the Nuclear demon. There is a report out today that Caesium twice the level of the Chernobyl exclusion zone was found 35 Km's from the Fukushima plant. What now.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 31 Mar 2011 15:24

^^ Theo more details of high doses of radiation outside the exclusion area

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/3 ... 42905.html

TOKYO, March 31 (Reuters) - Pressure mounted on Japan on Thursday to expand the evacuation zone around its stricken nuclear power plant while officials said radiation may be flowing continuously into the nearby sea, where contamination was now 4,000 times the legal limit.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiap ... tml?hpt=T2

IAEA finds high radiation levels outside Japan evacuation zone

The elevated levels were found in Iitate, a town of 7,000 residents about 40 kilometers (25 miles) northwest of the earthquake- and tsunami-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, the agency said

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 31 Mar 2011 17:53

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/ ... BP20110331
So, even the money guys are thinking about the direction of money flow.

Taiwan's state-run Taipower also said it was studying plans to cut nuclear power output.
"Whatever their exact outcome, the Fukushima events are likely to shift the energy policy balance toward renewables," Pricewaterhouse Coopers said in a report on March 28.

But renewable power must battle reliability concerns, compared with thermal or nuclear power, as supplies of sunlight, wind or water are not always steady, a hurdle the sector must overcome before it can displace conventional sources.

The key is centralized power supply versus decentralized mini scale supplies with renewables.

However, there is charm associated with high tech nuclear power. That is one of the reasons why reasonable people loose perspective and indulge in fear mongering when they want to make a case for nuclear power, say that India would go back to stone age without nuclear power. That also doesn't help.

While the systems that use energy are largely agnostic to the source of the energy, per se. It doesn't matter that if the 2% of energy that is supplied by nuclear power is replaced by other sources, it is not going to be an automatic decline towards stone age. That small percentage can easily be taken up other sources. Ipunwa will still function if the battery gets charged due to energy from non nuclear source. So no need to worry about transported back to vedic age on that account.

Realistic assessment: without fear mongering of India slipping into dark ages sans nuclear power needs to be undertaken. There is good case to be made for nuclear power without using those kinds of dirty snake oil fear mongering. Else it is going to make the case weaker rather than other way round.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 31 Mar 2011 18:20

look at india's power consumption per head and see how much more it has grow to reach a 'developed' level - (we can discuss what is the right level, but not on this thread) [2% of not very much is indeed not very much and can be met from somewhere else]
then look at how much more capacity is required (irrespective of source) [10-20% of a huge number is a very large number of MW]
and then look at where that capacity can be met from (type of generation plant)
if the answer is "all coal and oil"
then look at the carbon dioxide emissions that will result and the environmental damage that will ensue
then look at viable alternative power sources and define a strategy
combined with security of energy supply
combined with environmental and other developmental factors
then write a future energy policy for india w.r.t. developmental goals
but
we are not on this thread to do that...

all that said, nuclear is here, we have to learn how to better manage it rather than ignore it

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 Mar 2011 19:56

Financial woes escalate for embattled TEPCO

Katsumata said Wednesday that TEPCO will "have no choice" but to decommission four crippled reactors at the plant in Fukushima Prefecture. He said it will still take a fairly long time to stabilize the overheating reactors.

"It's still a long, long way until we can even make cost estimates," Katsumata said.

Scrapping one 1.1 gigawatt-reactor costs 60 billion yen ($720 million) during normal times. Total costs could balloon in Fukushima Prefecture for measures to remove the damaged fuel rods and contain the radioactivity.

The TEPCO chairman also pledged to prepare, "with sincerity," compensation to farmers and residents.

Under the Law on Compensation for Nuclear Damage and contracts with utilities, the government will foot up to 120 billion yen per nuclear power plant in the event of a quake or tsunami.

Beyond that amount, the utility is supposed to take an unlimited responsibility. If the company cannot cover all the bills, the government will be required to extend low-interest loans and subsidies.

With the combined damage at the No. 1 and No. 2 plants in the prefecture, the compensation amount could be trillions of yen, a senior official of the Finance Ministry has said.

TEPCO stock, which was traded around 2,000 yen before the quake struck, closed at 466 yen on Thursday.

TEPCO appears reluctant to give up the remaining two reactors at the No. 1 plant and the four others at the No. 2 plant.

Interestingly this news says unlimited responsibility ( not liability) and Govt might be required to extend low interest loans and subsidies.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 Mar 2011 20:16

Anti-tsunami measures almost an afterthought at Fukushima plant

The catastrophic events that crippled the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant were mainly due to a tsunami that was off the charts.

Nobody foresaw such towering tidal waves hitting with such force.

But that was not the only factor. The problems were exacerbated by safety design for important equipment as well as inadequate emergency procedures, according to people associated with Tokyo Electric Power Co., the plant's operator.

"There were problems with safety design of equipment at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant," said a nuclear engineer who once worked for TEPCO.

A key design flaw, according to the engineer, centered on the location of vital pumping equipment used to bring in seawater to cool the reactor cores. The equipment was located near the coast.

The tsunami triggered by the March 11 Great East Japan Earthquake wrecked both the equipment and its emergency generators. That led to a failure to pump in cooling water to the core.

While the pumping equipment had a cover, it was "almost totally exposed," according to the engineer.

In comparison, the pumping equipment and emergency generators at the Fukushima No. 2 nuclear power plant, situated some 12 kilometers south of the Fukushima No. 1 plant, are installed within a roofed building, although they also lie by the ocean.

A senior official in TEPCO's nuclear power division acknowledged that "a major problem with the pumping equipment was that it was exposed, unlike the Fukushima No. 2 plant where it was installed within a building."

The engineer also referred to piping that is connected to turbine buildings at the No. 1 plant.

"From the time of construction, there were many rough points in terms of safety as the piping was buried underground (without any covering)," the engineer said.

While improvements had been made over the years, such as covering the piping with concrete, the engineer said, "There were sections where the work did not keep up, and the pumping equipment was one example of that."

The four reactors at the Fukushima No. 2 plant all automatically shut down as intended after the earthquake. While there were initial problems in the cooling system pumping in seawater, the cooling mechanism began operating through an external power source.

By March 15, all four reactors had reached the cold shutdown stage, with core temperatures under 100 degrees.

Slowness in responding to upgraded anti-quake guidelines also contributed to the extensive damage at the No. 1 plant.

The difference is evident in a comparison with the Tokai No. 2 nuclear power plant operated by Japan Atomic Power Co. in Tokai, Ibaraki Prefecture.

While the tsunami also battered the Tokai No. 2 plant, protective walls that were constructed after a review of anti-quake guidelines ensured that a power source was maintained.

According to Japan Atomic Power officials, the Tokai No. 2 plant automatically shut down after the earthquake. Because its outside power source was lost, emergency diesel generators began operating to continue cooling the core.

In the blink of an eye, a tsunami some 5 meters high smashed into the plant and flooded part of the complex.

A seawater pump used for cooling purposes that relied on emergency generators was located on the northern side of the plant. It, too, was flooded and malfunctioned.

However, the pump on the southern side of the plant was not flooded so the emergency generator continued operating, allowing for the cooling process to continue.

When the anti-quake guidelines for nuclear power plants were reviewed in 2006, Japan Atomic Power factored in the possibility of a 5-meter tsunami striking the plant.

To cope with such an eventuality, the company decided to construct side walls to cover the pumps that are connected to the emergency generators. The plant already had a protective wall against tsunami.

Construction of the side walls was completed last September.

Because related work on the northern side wall was not completed, the pump on that side was flooded. However, the southern side wall protected the pump on that side.

TEPCO conducted safety checks of its various reactors after the anti-quake guidelines were updated, but the company's focus was on dealing with shaking from quakes rather than tsunami, according to sources.

The process of implementing new measures was still continuing when the twin disasters struck, creating a third, and potentially more horrific, nuclear catastrophe.

TEPCO's failure to consider that an outside power source would not be restored for a protracted period may have also compounded problems at the Fukushima No. 1 plant.

When one of the reactors shut down, water began to be pumped into the core, according to TEPCO sources. But when the water reached a certain height, the supply was automatically turned off as is supposed to happen. This is because major problems can occur if the core is filled with water and it overflows into the turbine.

However, the monstrous tsunami cut off the power source to the reactors, stopping the pumps and leading to a lengthy period when the reactor cores could not be cooled.

When asked whether the reactor cores should have been immediately immersed in water, a mid-level TEPCO official said, "I personally feel that should have been done."

The official said the decision was likely not taken because of a general sense that an outside power source would be restored within hours.

There are procedures and training exercises to deal with a situation in which all outside power sources are lost.

However, a TEPCO source said, "In hindsight, (the function to protect the turbine) had a negative effect."

The mid-level official said: "In the few minutes (until the tsunami hit), there may have been someone who thought, 'Bring the water level up to totally cover the core.' But I don't know if anyone would have made the decision to go ahead with that move."

Experts blamed TEPCO for not taking measures sooner.

Keiji Miyazaki, professor emeritus of nuclear reactor engineering at Osaka University, said the failure to immerse the cores in water immediately after the earthquake was evidence of a lack of foresight.

"If the cores had been flooded with water, damage to the fuel rods might have been avoided," Miyazaki said. "Another question is why the valves to release pressure from the pressure container and containment vessel were not opened immediately."

Kiyoshi Sakurai, a commentator on technology issues, pointed to a number of safety problems at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant.

"No careful design was conducted for the pumping equipment or emergency generators," Sakurai said. "Placing the emergency diesel generator in the basement of the turbine building was a mistake because the building has lower anti-quake standards than the building housing the reactor core."

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 31 Mar 2011 20:23

chaanakya - thanks for the above article, very insightful.
not sure about opening the valves? doesnt that release radioactive steam into the air?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 Mar 2011 20:43

Govt may scrap nuclear energy plan

Prime Minister Naoto Kan has reportedly hinted at the possibility of a fundamental review of the government's nuclear energy plan.

Communist Party leader Kazuo Shii met Prime Minister Kan on Thursday to discuss the damaged Fukushima nuclear power plant.
....... the opposition party leader quoted Kan as saying the situation at the Fukushima plant cannot allow him to say anything about the future of the plant.

Kan reportedly said all-out efforts are under way to cool down the reactors and to prevent radioactive substances from leaking out but that there is no clear prospect of a stable cooling down.

In 2010, the government formulated a plan calling for the construction of at least 14 nuclear power plants over the next 20 years.

....

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 31 Mar 2011 20:47

Headline more serious than "17 in serious condition in hospital"
Nuclear Rescuers: 'Inevitable Some of Them May Die Within Weeks'
Story is from mainstream, one of the most popular, news outlet, Fox.
Headline is in large fonts (see it yourself) with catchy words:

.. Inevitable..!

Die within weeks!

Of course, if you read the same story and fine prints, you see the information is from a mother of a worker who talked with her son.

For those, who would read the story, let me post few lines from the above story:

My son and his colleagues have discussed it at length and they have committed themselves to die if necessary to save the nation.
“He told me they have accepted they will all probably die from radiation sickness in the short term or cancer in the long-term.”

She how "probably" is interpreted as 'inevitable' and 'long-term' becomes "weeks" and mother's worry about her son becomes an expert forgone conclusion.
Of course, when you further read it more, you do see this:

She could not confirm if her son or other workers were already suffering from radiation sickness

Speechless! Of course, looking at the comments on the above piece, it seems, the headlines are working to fool the people. I only hope that brf readers are smarter and really pay attention.

(Added later: The story happens to be the top story from google news for me)

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 Mar 2011 20:49

Radiation monitors not given to each worker

NHK has learned that Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, has not provided every worker at the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant with radiation monitors, breaking government rules.

High levels of contamination have been detected at the Daiichi power complex following a series of hydrogen explosions that have scattered radioactive substances.

TEPCO says the quake destroyed many radiation monitors, so in some work groups only leaders have them, leaving others struggling to manage exposure.