Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

[Nandu]

It is Blake's interpretation of Jaitley's comments that they are "opportunistic".

Wrong. That is not what the cable said.

There is some "twisting" going on here, but not from The Hindu.

[krisna]

It is Blake's interpretation of Jaitley's comments that they are "opportunistic".

Wrong. That is not what the cable said.

There is some "twisting" going on here, but not from The Hindu.

1) The use of inverted commas " " mean that the particular word was used by the said person. Hindu nationalism is opportunistic, said Jaitley

2) when one does not use the inverted commas, it could mean that it may not be said by the said person. The charge/Mr Blake might have interpreted the statement of Mr Jaitley in that way. Remember Mr Jaitley might not have thought it that way. This is the original cable.


Here Hindu paper is using the inverted commas to show everyone that Mr Jaitey used the word. But the original cable had no inverted commas.
Hence The Hindu twisted it. as the meaning changes from interpretation of his talk to has said. Purely psyops but it gets a life of its own to bash the known ones
There is a world of difference in it.
Hope this helps.

[SSridhar]

US Activism in Kashmir will be Counterproductive

“In order for the GOI's efforts to restore sustainable peace and stability in Kashmir to succeed, its engagement with the separatists and with the Kashmiri people must be free of any perception of outside influence,” the Embassy conveyed to Washington in a cable dated October 22, 2009 ( 230893: confidential).

After making a list of the kind of confidence building measures that the Indian government had to play within its Kashmir initiative, the Embassy said the list was not meant to be prescriptive. “It [the list] is provided to help Washington understand the complicated, multi-faceted problem facing the GOI in Kashmir as it moves forward on what is clearly a high priority for Prime Minister [Manmohan Singh], [Union Home Minister P.] Chidambaram and [Congress president] Sonia Gandhi.”

The list, which was described as “illustrative rather than exhaustive,” included the following Confidence Building Measures (CBMs): ensure that dialogue with separatists achieves results; continue generous development spending; conduct panchayat (village council) elections at the earliest; release selected prisoners who are not hard core militants, do not today pose any serious threat, but have been incarcerated for years; release prisoners who have been incarcerated longer than the court-directed sentences; discontinue the practice of re-arresting accused militants who have been released by courts; stop the misuse of the Public Safety Act, which allows the government to detain anyone for two years without trial; repeal, selectively repeal or be more judicious in use of Armed Forces Special Powers Act and the Disturbed Areas Act, which gives the Army almost unchecked powers over the local population in the valley; prosecute transparently and publicly security force personnel involved in human rights violations; relocate security forces camps out of public facilities; more judicious use of house searches and road blockades by security forces; demilitarisation, gradual pullback, and pullout of the paramilitary and Army from visibility in the day-to-day life of Kashmiris; replacement of the paramilitary and Army by the Jammu & Kashmir police; empower the State Human Rights Commission so that it can make transparent inquiries and achieve some tangible results; stop the continued harassment of released/surrendered militants and their families even when these former militants no longer pose any threat; loosen further travel controls on separatist leaders; make the bus links across the Line of Control (LoC) more traveller friendly; ease travel restrictions on cross border travel, increase the number of transit points; open telephone lines across the LoC between ‘Azad Kashmir' and Jammu and Kashmir; encourage separatists to participate in future elections by providing them incentives — funding, security, press coverage; strengthen civil society by making it easier for NGOs to operate.

Director General of Police Kuldeep Khoda told an Embassy official that the J&K Police have for the last two years increasingly become the public face of the security effort in the State.

“He noted that, as far as possible, interaction of security forces with the local population is done by the J&K police in an effort to improve relations between the population and the security forces …

“Security forces have strict instructions to minimize collateral damage to civilians during operations against terrorists, sometimes to the point of letting terrorists escape if it means avoiding civilian casualties. In his view, the reduction in human rights abuses by the security forces and their better community relations have yielded tangible benefits in improving trust between the GOI and Kashmiris.”

[SSridhar]

No planning went into action against JuD

Despite Pakistan's cooperation in the Security Council designation of the Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD), American diplomats were concerned that moves by the Pakistan government against the group and its leader Hafiz Saeed were “messy” and might not amount to anything {as subsequent events have clearly shown. It would have been foolish for the Americans to expect anything else. The fact that they still do not realize this is the sad part} more than a “short-term fix.”

Cables from the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad and Consulate in Lahore, that were accessed by The Hindu through WikiLeaks, showed U.S. diplomats trying hard not to be dismissive of the measures Pakistan was taking against the JuD in the wake of the Security Council designation, but not entirely convinced by them either.

They also revealed that the Pakistan government and the Punjab provincial government, despite knowing in advance about the designation and cooperating in the move, were far from clear-headed about the implementation.

In a cable sent on December 12, 2008 which detailed the steps taken by the Punjab government ( 182691: confidential), Bryan Hunt, Principal Officer at the U.S. Consulate in Lahore, was impressed and, at the same time, aware that much more needed to be done.

He described the preventive detentions of, and “likely filing of criminal charges” against, senior JuD leaders including Hafiz Saeed{We now know the farce of preventive detention and later the drama of 'house arrest' when Prof. Hafeez Saeed saheb was free to go anywhere as he pleased and meet anybody as he pleased. Soon, even this painful farce would be put an end to and Professor saheb would be invited to an iftaar dinner by the Lahore based Army Corps}, and the closure of offices, seizure of financial and physical assets as “unprecedented and suggest[ing] that the Pakistani government has decided to take credible action against the organisation.”

But, he wrote, “even the highest officials of the [Punjab provincial] government appear to have been somewhat confused by the legal grounds for the detentions and the progress of the captures” even though the police told him that they planned to submit “as yet unspecified criminal charges” against the detainees. {And, now, we know that they neither submitted these 'unspecified criminal charges' nor pursued this matter vigorously.}

The police also told him that the detainees would be put on the country's exit control list, which would prevent them from leaving the country should they obtain bail in the criminal cases upon the expiration of their periods of preventive detention.

Mr. Hunt, an extremely popular diplomat during his time in Lahore, also detailed the steps that the provincial government did not take against the JuD.

The cable said the mosques affiliated to the JuD, including the main one at Lahore's Chauburji, and the madrassahs and hospitals run by it, remained open.

The Punjab Home Secretary told the Consulate's Foreign Service National Investigator, usually a local employee at the mission, that the JuD runs 173 schools across Pakistan and three hospitals in Punjab and operates 66 ambulances.

But Mr. Hunt commented that the official had “grossly underestimated the number of JuD schools, which could exceed one thousand madrassahs in Punjab alone.”

The provincial government had no plans to deal with students and patients who would be displaced from the JuD hospitals and schools — Mr. Hunt believed these institutions would have no choice but to shut down soon as they functioned on JuD charities that had been frozen.{But, nothing of that sort ever happened. On the contrary, the Punjab government sanctioned 80 million rupees to JuD}

Evidently reckoning without the JuD's staying power and — as later events showed — its unrestricted fund-collecting activities, Mr. Hunt said “donor support” may be required to keep these institutions running.

The diplomat sounded more hopeful six days later after a breakfast meeting with Shahbaz Sharif. In a cable sent on December 18, 2008, he concluded that the Punjab Chief Minister was “unwavering” ( 183673: confidential/noforn) in his determination to “completely shut down JuD.”

Mr. Sharif told Mr. Hunt that his government would formulate a plan to take over the hospitals and schools previously run by the JuD. This would be easy, the Chief Minister said, telling Mr. Hunt jokingly that “we will use trained doctors to charm the patients with long beards and caps.”

Assuming that control of the schools would pose the bigger challenge, Mr. Sharif said he had “no substantive response” on how to deal with the JuD's extensive madrassah network.

‘Short-term fix'

According to Mr. Hunt, the Chief Minister asked the U.S. to provide evidence that would be required to prosecute the JuD leaders, {Proof, proof and even more proof. That is the mantra of TSP when in fact they have these terrorists sitting, planning and executing attacks from their (night)soil} noting that “proof that originates with the U.S. would have greater credibility than proof produced by India.”

From Islamabad, the livewire U.S. Ambassador, Anne Patterson, sent a cable on December 16, 2008 ( 183225: confidential) analysing Pakistan's preventive detention law, describing it as “murky and fraught with ambiguities” but able to provide a “short term fix.”

She wrote that the “sweeping language” of the law left loopholes — “big enough to drive a jingle truck through,” a reference to Pakistan's ubiquitous decorated trucks — that could possibly enable the indefinite extension of Hafiz Saeed's detention beyond the 12-month cap on preventive detentions. Plus, Ms. Patterson noted, the burden of proof on the government was minimal in such cases. But she also warned that the courts had struck down such orders in several cases.

The U.S. Ambassador was right. Six months later, the Lahore High Court did exactly that.

Ms. Patterson wrote that the bigger question was how Pakistan would charge and prosecute these people. The Embassy's Resident Legal Advisor had spoken to Law Minister Farooq Naek about this. The Minister said charges would possibly be brought under the Anti-Terrorist Act, but “declined to be more specific.”

The lack of clarity at both the federal and provincial levels of government is surprising, given that they knew of the designation well in advance. {What is surprising when the federal and provincial governments along with the Pakistani judiciary are hand in glove in terrorism against India ?}

As a cable sent on December 8, 2008 ( 181794: confidential) noted, Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani and the Foreign Minister told a three-member U.S. Congressional delegation — Senators John McCain, Joe Liberman and Lindsay Graham — that the Pakistan government had already begun the process of seeking the arrest of individuals named by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice during her December 4 meetings in Islamabad. {So, the names were given by the US to Pakistan. Did that include Prof. Hafeez Saeed saheb ?}The government had also agreed to cooperate in the UN 1267 Committee to designate these individuals.

The cable added: “Secretary Rice had told the GOP the USG wanted Pakistan to place no holds in the UN 1267 Committee for individuals suspected of involvement in the Mumbai attacks. The GOP has already agreed, informed Gilani. The Secretary also wanted individuals arrested.

“‘We have already taken steps,' Gilani told the Senators. He added that the 1267 process in the UN will give the GOP's actions further legitimacy. Foreign Minister Qureshi asked the Senators to keep this news — that GOP actions against individuals named by the Secretary were already underway — private, and not to repeat it to the media.”

Pakistan Muslim League (N) leader Nawaz Sharif was also being kept informed. The Prime Minister told the delegation that he was meeting Mr. Sharif as the provincial government needed to take actions. He told the senators that all political leaders were on board in the government's approach to the crisis.

Senator McCain, who had met Mr. Sharif earlier in the day, confirmed that the opposition leader had pledged to support the government's action against extremists in Pakistan, including those responsible for the Mumbai attacks.

[Nandu]

1) The use of inverted commas " " mean that the particular word was used by the said person. Hindu nationalism is opportunistic, said Jaitley

No.

You are arguing basic English grammer here. There is absolutely no room for any ambiguity here. The " " means the quote is lifted verbatim from the cable. Nothing more. Nothing less.

You are simply wrong. Admit it and move on.

[Arjun]

Nandu-

This is the direct quote from the cable:

Pressed on the question of Hindutva, Jaitley argued that Hindu nationalism ""will always be a talking point"" for the BJP. However, he characterized this as an opportunistic issue.

Do you notice that some words are within quotation marks and some aren't? Blake is therefore quoting Jaitley directly on "will always be a talking point" but one cannot be sure regarding the phrase 'opportunistic issue'.

[Nandu]

Arjun, all I am saying is that The Hindu reported the cable accurately.

[svenkat]

One cannot convince people who have already made up their sekular mind.There is every reason to believe that the words 'opportunistic' were not used by Jaitley.It is Jaitleys word vs a nobody's conviction that Jaitley did utter that world.

Ofcouse,it is possible that Jaitley used the contested word but only sekular people can be so sure.Jaitley himself says the Hindutva issue will always be a talking point.Which is calibrated according to the demands of the situation.Why should Jaitley describe it as 'opportunistic' virtually damning his party in front of a foreign diplomat.If he had done that,he is most unworthy politician possible.But he has denied that.So it is Suresh Nambaths word vs Jaitley's.But there is no reason,as of now,for us to trust Suresh Nambath and NRam more than Jaitley,given NRam is obfuscating the issue.

The Hindu did not report accurately.It deliberately slandered Jaitley misinterpreting an ambiguous statement.

[Suppiah]

Let us stop this nonsense. There is so much of yellow journalistic propaganda out there in the yellow daily, there is no need to split hairs.

As I mentioned, just imagine how the rapist goons and their yellow puppets would have danced around, had the Wikileaks quoted US officials as saying that ABV preferred to deal with upper caste Thackeray (who is pragmatic and whose ideology is only for the party faithful) instead of MK and Naidu. Every Marxist mass murderer, Stalinist rapist goon, Maoist eye-gouger and evangelist fanatics and jehadi terrorists would have created a huge ruckus that would have gone on for days and weeks. Yet have this situation where neither the dynasty nor the rapist goon traitor are called to explain...

That is yellow journalism for you, pure and simple

[Nandu]

The Hindu did not report accurately.

Yes they did report accurately. The evidence is clear.

It deliberately slandered Jaitley misinterpreting an ambiguous statement.

Their motivations are not the subject of discussion as far as I am concerned.

The report itself is not a misinterpretation, nor is there any ambiguity in the cable regarding this. Let me quote:

"he characterized this as an opportunistic issue."

What is the ambiguity? Who could the "he" in that sentence possibly refer to, other than Arun Jaitley?

[svenkat]

'he' refers to Jaitley.But it is perfectly possible that the American diplomat judged Jaitleys response and characterised it as 'opportunistic'.Did Jaitley characterise it as opportunistic as chindu claims.

Jaitley is explaining the BJP's position.What sort of politician will characterise his stand as 'opportunistic'.

Some are hallucinating here.

[dinakar]

I heard (or read) somewhere that CENTCOM happened more recently...

Army Chief to visit US Centcom HQ

The India-US military relationship is set for a qualitative leap with the first ever visit of an Indian Army Chief to the headquarters of the US Central Command (Centcom), which has charge of Af-Pak, the Middle East and Iraq.

Gen. V K Singh will visit the Tampa, Florida-based Command in his 10-day trip to the US between March 6 and 15 with an aim to set up a Brigadier-level direct liaison with the Indian Army. India liaises only with the US Pacific Command, and having a liaison officer in Tampa will signal a recognition of Indian interests in the arc from the Gulf of Aden to the Straits of Malacca, government sources said.

[JE Menon]

Thanks Dinakar.

So we got what we wanted.

[JE Menon]

We cannot be certain that Jaitley used the word "opportunistic". It is not a direct quote from him in the Hindu. The Hindu is quoting Blake who says Jaitley "characterized" this as an "opportunistic" issue. In short it is Blake they are directly quoting, not Jaitley. And Blake himself is saying that Jaitley "characterized" it as "opportunistic" - which suggests this is Blake's understanding of Jaitley's comments.

The Hindu's sleight of hand, if you will, is in purveying the story as if it was something Jaitley actually said. Journalistic opportunism. BTW, similar ambiguity surrounds Chidambaram's alleged statement about north and south.

Jaitley may have used the word. We don't know. What will be valuable is if some enterprising BRFite can unearth the actual cables which contain this information. Then Hindu can be slapped around for its agenda-based journalism. Going by the way they have chosen to use quotes, and their political bent, we can be fairly certain that Jaitley did not use the word "opportunistic" himself, and that Chidambaram did not use the exact words he was suggested to have done.

On the other hand, it is also our responsibility as BRFites to be able to separate quickly the wheat from the chaff and put it out there that the Hindu is playing a game of deception lite while posturing as a "nothing but the truth" kind of rag.

[Nandu]

Marten, since I did not actually criticize anybody's grammAr, I hardly qualify for the term.

Anyways, without conceding the issue, I am willing to let the matter rest regarding the reporting by The Hindu.

Now, onto the actual contents of the cable.

There are three possibilities.

1. Jaitley did use the word "opportunistic".
2. He did not, but said something that can reasonably be interpreted as the same.
or
3. Blake lied.

I won't dismiss 3) out of hand, but since this is a private state department cable that the author was not expecting to be made public, I don't see the motivation to lie.

I would say 1) and 2) are similar enough that they can be discussed together.

So, either:

1. Jaitley considers Hindu nationalism to be a genuine issue for the BJP, but prevaricated on it when talking to Blake.
or
2. He does consider it to be an opportunistic issue.

My inclination is towards 1. here. Because the cable also says the Americans "pressed [Jaitley] on the question of Hindutva". i.e. they were viewing it as a negative issue. Under these circumstances, I don't see anything wrong with Jaitley reassuring them by saying something that amounts to "don't worry about it".

I would rather an Indian pol be sincere with his Indian followers and lie to the Americans, than the other way around. (svenkat, this is also a counter to your argument).

[abhishek_sharma]

The U.S. Consulate in Mumbai reports on the manoeuvres of the Dow Chemical Company to get its plants cleared, and the contradictory responses of powerful politicians

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/01/stories ... 560100.htm

Sops for chemicals? Dow's behind-the-scenes manoeuvres

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/01/stories ... 171300.htm

India fought off U.S. pressure to endorse ‘regime change to fix human rights'

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/01/stories ... 191300.htm

U.S. wants to use India in missile shield: WikiLeaks

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/01/stories ... 071400.htm

[Suppiah]

I would have thought Wikileaks is a non-profit organisation dedicated to bringing out the 'truth'. If that is the case, why are they doing secret commercial deals with Stalinist yellows and not putting it on open servers? If they are indeed trying to make money out of this whole thing, then it is entirely conceivable that they will salt the mine and dabble with manipulation to enhance the 'value' of the cables.

Will Wikileaks that want everyone to tell the truth clarify on what they were paid for selective distribution?

[svenkat]

....

There is the third possibility that Jaitley was clarifying the Hindu nationalist view.In the NE there is an existential threat which does not exist in Delhi.Hindu nationaLISM CAN have a calibrated response on different situations given India's diversity.The christist US diplomat who have many many reasons to fear Hindu nationalists characterised Jaitleys response as opportunistic given the social engineering of the past and the generally orchestrated anti-Hindu mindset which is deeprooted in Anglo-Christist mindset.

The Hindus reporters/editors who have internalised the anti-Hindu mindset faithfully reproduced the western angst as 'Gospel Truth' tarnishing BJP.Given the background of Suresh Nambath(add Janaki Nair,Parvathi Menon in Bangalore are more 'dravidian' than DMK in their hatred of BJP),this explanation is more probable than the other two.

My last post on this.

[chaanakya]

I would have thought Wikileaks is a non-profit organisation dedicated to bringing out the 'truth'. If that is the case, why are they doing secret commercial deals with Stalinist yellows and not putting it on open servers? If they are indeed trying to make money out of this whole thing, then it is entirely conceivable that they will salt the mine and dabble with manipulation to enhance the 'value' of the cables.

Will Wikileaks that want everyone to tell the truth clarify on what they were paid for selective distribution?

+1

[svinayak]

agony of 1984 Bhopal gas leak disaster is not over
To: <[email protected]>




The U.S. Consulate in Mumbai reports on the manoeuvres of the Dow
Chemical Company to get its plants cleared, and the contradictory
responses of powerful politicians


The Dow Chemical Company, an American multinational that bought the
infamous Union Carbide, appointed a public relations manager recommended
by a Shiv Sena parliamentarian at a generous monthly salary of $20,000.
This was done in the hope that it would put an end to the protests the
politician was spearheading against its proposed research facility in
Pune.

Over in Gujarat, the company had to put on hold a proposed investment by
its European arm in a state-owned unit because a Union Minister
allegedly “demanded a large sum of money” to clear the project, which
Dow refused to pay.

These allegations are contained in a confidential Mumbai Consulate cable
sent to the U.S. State Department in late-2008 and accessed by The
Hindu through WikiLeaks.

Asked by The Hindu to respond, the two politicians, Shiv Sena MP
Shivajirao Adhalrao Patil and Ram Vilas Paswan, at the time the Union
Chemicals and Fertilisers Minister, denied the allegations as totally
baseless. Attacking Dow and Union Carbide as “criminals in my mind,” Mr.
Paswan asserted that they were trying to tarnish his image because he
and his Ministry “strongly opposed their plans to establish a presence”
in Gujarat even while “the case of remediation costs for the Bhopal
disaster” remained unresolved.

The cable was sent under the name of Consul-General Paul A. Folmsbee (173725: confidential, October 15, 2008)
after Consulate officials reported they had heard detailed separate
versions of Dow's troubles from company representatives and the Shiv
Sena MP, Shivajirao Adhalrao Patil.

The cable drew an outline of politicians seeking to exploit Dow's
handicap in India – arising from its association with Union Carbide and
the legacy of the 1984 Bhopal gas leak disaster – for direct or indirect
personal benefit. But even where politicians and government
functionaries were reassuring or sympathetic, when crunch-time came,
they were of no help.

As for Dow, the Mumbai Consulate concluded it did not have the nous to
grasp the political implications of being associated with Union Carbide
and the legacy of the Bhopal gas disaster, especially with the 2009
parliamentary elections just months away.

Dow's Pune facility was to come up on 100 acres of grazing land in
Chakan, Shinde village. Just a day before the Maharashtra government
ordered a temporary halt to the construction at the site on September
26, 2008, and appointed a commission to inquire into the complaints
against it, the Consul General had met Mr. Patil, the Shiv Sena MP from
Shirur in Pune district, to talk about the protests against Dow.

Dow's behind-the-scenes manoeuvres


The politician had expressed “a desire to resolve the dispute
peacefully.” The villagers should have been informed about the project,
he said.

The Mumbai Consulate noted that the Warkaris, a local community,
worshipped a river shrine and were convinced that Dow's activities at
the facility would pollute the river and groundwater sources.

Mr. Patil told the U.S. officials that the villagers had learnt about
Dow's connections to Union Carbide. He said the approvals Dow had
received for the facility related to the manufacture of chemicals, which
was at variance with Dow's description of the facility as a scientific
research centre.

The Shiv Sena MP also said he had advised Dow to explain the project to
the villagers, “preferably through a public relations company that was
experienced at this.” However, he lamented, the company had ignored his
advice and instead relied on police force and started work at the site.

“Patil noted that it was because of this decision that the Warkaris
started protesting and a Dow vehicle was burned,” the cable informed the
State Department.

Mr. Patil then reiterated advice he said he had given Dow in July 2008
about hiring a public relations outfit for this purpose — “like the one
that the local company Bharat Forge hired when it ran into problems, and
give donations to local villagers to resolve the situation.”


On September 29, Rakesh Chitkara, Dow's Head of Corporate Affairs, met
Consulate officials (the cable does not name them). He told them that
three months earlier, Dow “hired the public relations specialist Patil
recommended for USD 20,000 per month.” In parenthesis, the cable added:
“Chitkara said that the PR specialist is a ‘close associate' of Patil.”


Dow had also hired a number of local villagers for construction
projects

[SSridhar]

Gujarat tried to use SEWA for communal propaganda

The cable ( 41091: unclassified), sent by the U.S. Consul General (CG) in Mumbai, Michael S. Owen, on September 22, 2005, quoted SEWA general secretary Reemaben Nanawati as telling him that the organisation was facing the “wrath” of the State government for “resisting” pressure.

Why should the SEWA general secretary discuss these matters with an American CG ? These people must realize that in a similar situation, an American would not be discussing issues about racism in Georgia with the Indian CG.

As I said before, the American consular officials have become hyper active in the last few years. We may not be able to do much about this so long as they do not violate any laws or conventions. From a diplomat's PoV, he/she may be doing the right thing for his/her country. But, Indians must be careful as to what and why do they discuss with them.

Again, I liked the response of the Chief Secretary of Gujarat

Gujarat Chief Secretary Sudhir Mankad “lost his patience” when asked how many people had been convicted for their role in the 2002 riots, Mr. Owen wrote.

‘Why the obsession?'

“He asked the CG why the U.S. was ‘so obsessed' with the riots. ‘You always express concern about the riots, but look what else is happening in the world,' Mankad complained…Reps of other diplomatic missions visited Gujarat to discuss the economy, education or cultural issues. The U.S. was always different. ‘When I saw your schedule I asked myself why you need to talk to all these groups', he said, referring to the CG's NGO interlocutors…,” Mr. Owen wrote, adding that he “underlined the importance the USG attached to human rights, and said we would continue to follow this issue closely.”

A wide cross-section of Indians from top central ministers (so far, I have not seen any Indian PM being quoted in these leaks) to secretary of voluntary organizations have revealed a hell of a lot to these gora sahibs. What drives them to be so open with these Americans ? Do they get unnerved or charmed by them ? Or, is it a visa or a trip ? Or, simply stupidity ?

[csharma]

Some of these NGOs might have been egged on by political parties aiming to politically benefit from American intervention in Gujarat riots. Subsequent events have shown that some of these NGOs have indulged in not the best practices.

We also know what Namo told the CG about human rights when he met subsequently.

But in general the amount of access these diplomatic folks have in India has come as a surprise. That is causing concern if India is really capable or desirous of being an independent power.

[vera_k]

More than Indian political parties, it appears that a lot of NGOs are consciously or unconsciously part of a USG supported social engineering project in India.

Having perfected the art next door in Pakistan, it'd not be too hard for the USG to rent people in India. I only hope our guys are extracting their pound of flesh from the USG similar to how the Pakistanis do (promises followed by no delivery).

[krisna]

Australian diplomats saw attacks on students as racially driven

Even as Australian Ministers, politicians and officials were taking the position in public that there was no racial motivation behind the spate of attacks on Indian students in Australia, chiefly in and around Melbourne in the State of Victoria, Australian diplomats were quietly acknowledging to their U.S. counterparts that it was indeed a likely factor. Also, the Australian government's efforts, in their opinion, had only a limited impact on cooling tempers

observed that Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard (she is now the Prime Minister), while condemning the murder, “stopped short of apologizing or referring to racial motivations.” Opposition leader Tony Abbott, the same cable pointed out, had also rejected any such suggestion. However, Peter Varghese, the Indian-origin Australian High Commissioner to New Delhi, seemed to think otherwise. He acknowledged that race “was likely a motivating factor is some attacks.”

Ms. Nayyar was more candid with her views on the Indian media and the coverage of the issue. She told U.S. diplomats that “a visiting contingent of Indian journalists had already written their headline story, ‘why they hate us,' even before landing in Melbourne for a week-long tour. She went on to say that the Indian press was still enamoured with this story and has paid interviewees well for their stories of woe.”

The cable noted that matters were only made worse by unfortunate public comments including one by Victoria's police chief, Simon Overlander, that “the streets of Melbourne are safer than those in India.”

really sad indeed.

[Suppiah]

The rapist goon camp has been exposed by yet another leak - when one rapist goon thunders against globalisation and evils of capitalism, his own leader goes courting the Americans....yet the yellow daily does not see any blasphemy or contradiction and you can trust the rapist goon propaganda yellow media not to ask any uncomfortable questions from the rapist goon Beijing puppet traitors...

[abhishek_sharma]

Why should the SEWA general secretary discuss these matters with an American CG ?

Now I understand why Hillary Clinton and US Ambassador visit SEWA frequently.

[abhishek_sharma]

U.S. presses India on Dow's liability

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/03/stories ... 781500.htm

How the U.K. saw Kayani as ‘obstacle' to deal on Kashmir

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/03/stories ... 791500.htm

Calling the Left's ‘bluff': Ahluwalia on the nuclear deal

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/03/stories ... 821500.htm

[svinayak]

A wide cross-section of Indians from top central ministers (so far, I have not seen any Indian PM being quoted in these leaks) to secretary of voluntary organizations have revealed a hell of a lot to these gora sahibs. What drives them to be so open with these Americans ? Do they get unnerved or charmed by them ? Or, is it a visa or a trip ? Or, simply stupidity ?

Every Indian should ask this questions. Why is the home problem discussed with some foreign people.
One amirkhan told me that by few questions to Indians they will reveal everything to them.

[brihaspati]

Could be "white adoration" and low-self-esteem combination. An interest from a gora is flattering, and hence the urge to vomit out to an encouraging and approving audience. Remember that the esteemed founders of our Republic repeatedly hammered this into our minds that the "gora" has "caused us grievous hurt", "sure", but over all they have such wonderful qualities that we must look up to them and appeal to their better sense and judgment.

[abhishek_sharma]

‘U.S. needs to read ‘Persian mind' to deal with Iran'

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/04/stories ... 131100.htm

U.S. feared Indian proposal may curtail its influence in UN

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/04/stories ... 121100.htm

Kashmir issue clouds Indian view of Kosovo

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/04/stories ... 111100.htm

A struggle between ‘reform cadre' and the ‘old line' in the Congress

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/04/stories ... 101100.htm

Pakistan's unconventional viewpoint on terrorism

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/04/stories ... 141100.htm

[SSridhar]

‘U.S. needs to read ‘Persian mind' to deal with Iran'

From the above,

The Political Counselor of the U.S. Embassy in New Delhi made an “introductory call” on Mr. {K.C.} Singh immediately after his return from the Tehran assignment and after he took charge as Additional Secretary (UN and International Security) in the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA).

How diligently the American diplomats keep track of their Indian counterparts and easily access them to discuss matters of interest ! Do we get similar access to American diplomats in Washington and do they discuss issues freely with us ?

Sometimes, it is good that the Americans seek out our diplomats on third-party issues such as Iran because we may be able to convey (and possibly influence rarely) our PoV. However, there is a thin dividing line between that and revealing more than what is necessary. Diplomats are trained to respect that line, one hopes.

[ramana]

Could be "white adoration" and low-self-esteem combination. An interest from a gora is flattering, and hence the urge to vomit out to an encouraging and approving audience. Remember that the esteemed founders of our Republic repeatedly hammered this into our minds that the "gora" has "caused us grievous hurt", "sure", but over all they have such wonderful qualities that we must look up to them and appeal to their better sense and judgment.

The post Independence generation needs adulation and affirmation that they are on the right track from the foreigners. This will go away with time and self confidence. If they get more exposure to West they will realize that they dont need that kudos. The generation already abroad doesn't believe in this bogus adulation.

[SSridhar]

U.S. feared Indian proposal may curtail its influence in UN

From the above,

The cable targeted India's Permanent Representative Nirupam Sen, claiming that he had been “widely quoted as saying that the current process creates a ‘Secretary-General who is secretary to the P5 and general to the General Assembly,'

[abhishek_sharma]

‘Mr. Mulford had an exaggerated notion of the kind of influence the U.S. exercises in India’: Shyam Saran

[kmkraoind]

A struggle between 'reform cadre' and the 'old line' in the Congress

Cable speaks of some members of the party advocating that Sonia Gandhi jettison Manmohan Singh as Prime Minister

After the Congress suffered electoral losses in Punjab and Uttarakhand in February 2007, some party members advocated that party president Sonia Gandhi “jettison” Prime Minister Manmohan Singh ahead of the Uttar Pradesh Assembly election in April-May 2007 and “put a more saleable political face at the head of the government,” according to a United States Embassy cable (100159: confidential) sent on March 13, 2007.

“Following a string of recent local-level electoral defeats in Mumbai, Uttarakhand, and Punjab, Sonia Gandhi and her personal advisors are very concerned that the impending Uttar Pradesh (UP) elections will turn out horribly for Congress. As a result, some are advocating that she jettison Prime Minister Singh — whose message of rapprochement with Pakistan has been criticized by the BJP — and put a more saleable political face at the head of the government,” the cable sent under the name of Embassy Charge d'Affaires Geoffrey Pyatt reported to Washington.

The Embassy appeared worried about the “reform cadre” in the government being sidelined by the “old line” Congress with socialist sympathies. “What seems clear in the aftermath of recent polls is that the reform cadre of Manmohan Singh, [Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission] Montek Singh Ahluwalia, and Finance Minister [P.] Chidambaram are politically diminished, Sonia Gandhi's inner coterie is deeply worried, and the old line Congress and their Communist fellow-travelers are empowered. Politics in India are a mess right now for Congress, and while the GOI [Government of India] is publicly optimistic about the nuclear deal, it is clearly caught in a domestic political eddy,” the cable added.

It also took note of the political compulsions of the Congress that might have a bearing on U.S. interests. “Others are urging that the Congress hunker down and play it safe on the budget, inflation, economic reform, and foreign policy — including the nuclear deal — to minimize the negative impact on UP voters, many of whom are Muslim and take a dim view of the United States.”
Energy sector concerns

The cable, accessed by The Hindu through WikiLeaks, was sent ahead of a visit to India by Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman to further the U.S.-India relationship in the energy sector.

Mr. Pyatt, in the “scene-setter” for the visit, expressed the hope that Mr. Bodman could win over the Indian nuclear scientific establishment with the prospect of “future-oriented programs” like the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership. “Your scheduled meetings in Mumbai with Department of Atomic Energy Secretary Dr. Anil Kakodkar and in New Delhi with Special Envoy Shyam Saran offer an opportunity to highlight the many benefits of U.S.-India civil nuclear cooperation, which could be lost if India does not conclude the 123 Agreement quickly,” he wrote.

Briefing Mr. Bodman on what to expect during his meetings in India, the Charge said: “The Prime Minister will likely tell you that his number one priority is extending the benefits of India's rapid growth to the 700 million Indians — mostly in the rural sector — who continue to live at a near subsistence level. Rising food and fuel prices have particularly hurt the poor, creating a political backlash against the UPA government in recent state elections. Prime Minister Singh and your other interlocutors will be very interested in your ideas on how the United States can help with India's energy needs in the short and long term, particularly with respect to the rural sector.”

Looking ahead to Mr. Bodman's meeting with Union Minister of Petroleum and Natural Gas Murli Deora, Mr. Pyatt wrote that Mr. Deora had “close ties to Sonia Gandhi's inner circle and a political base in Mumbai, and he is central to India's international quest for growing petroleum and natural gas imports, and cooperation with the United States in domestic industry development and regulatory policy.” The Minister had told American diplomats that India did not expect a final agreement to be reached on the oil pipeline with Iran due to Iranian unreliability and Iran changing the terms of the June 2005 agreement to sell India LNG from its South Pars field for 25 years. “The MPNG increasingly sees LNG from Qatar and Australia as a more viable option than several proposed pipeline projects,” the cable noted.

While giving the Energy Secretary a backgrounder to the U.S.-India civil nuclear negotiations, Mr. Pyatt said Indian Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon had handed Under Secretary Nicholas Burns a “completely inadequate counter-draft to the 123 Agreement — authored by the skeptics in India's nuclear establishment who remain concerned about U.S. efforts to ‘entrap' India and constrain its strategic program.”

Mr. Burns, the cable added, had asked Mr. Menon to “provide a more workable basis on which the U.S. and India can continue talks, and invited an Indian team with negotiating authority to the U.S. for the next round of discussions.” (This was sent before the two countries released the full text of the 123 agreement, which allows for cooperation on peaceful uses of nuclear energy, in August 2007.)

Analysing the compulsions of the Congress-led government in this context, it said:

“The politics around India's energy policy reflects a struggle between needed economic reform and political impediments to change. Prime Minister Singh and Deputy Chairman Ahluwalia are well aware of what economic reforms are needed to enhance India's long term growth.

“They realize that reasonable regulation and market-based pricing of electricity, petroleum products, natural gas, and coal would be most conducive to encouraging investment, reliable revenue streams, energy efficiency, and rational choice among projects and energy sources. However, the political imperatives of middle-class and poor voters' resistance to price increases, particularly with consumer inflation recently exceeding 6%, have induced the GOI to maintain price controls and government subsidies. Similarly, although the GOI privately doubts Iran's reliability as a potential source of natural gas by pipeline or of liquefied natural gas, it continues negotiations with Iran to appease Muslim and left-wing voters and Members of Parliament.”

(This article is a part of the series "The India Cables" based on the US diplomatic cables accessed by The Hindu via WikiLeaks.)

[SSridhar]

The deception at the heart of 'Rising India'

Indeed, the cables reveal U.S. business and officials to be as embedded in India's politics as they are in Pakistan's. {Absolutely true. It may be difficult to swallow, proud as we are that we are very different from the 'Establishment of Pakistan'. The Americans have different techniques for different nations but the end result is the same}

[sugriva]

Somewhere, somehow there has been a falling out between the current ruling dispensation and Unkil. As a result we have the skin show starting with the Radia tapes and now the latest Wikileaks revelations. Add to this the current hoo-haa over the Lokpal Bill and we have all the ingredients for a color revolution in India on the lines of those in Egypt and Tunisia. Jingoes should be careful. Just because somebody's feet is affected by gangrene it doesn't imply that the person should be shot dead. Jai Hind.

[SSridhar]

It means he has a habit of reactively covering up corruption allegations:Assange on PM Man Mohan Singh

Mr. Assange is genuinely distressed and not a little outraged by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's disputation in Parliament of the authenticity of the India Cables, his Lok Sabha statement that the government “cannot confirm the veracity, contents or even the existence of such communication.”

The WikiLeaks chief has strong words to say on this:

“We have not come across this reaction and that reaction disturbed me. Because Hillary Clinton had been involved in informing the Indian government, in December, as well as many other governments, that this was coming. There has been no question as to the credibility of any document we have ever published in the last four years, let alone the [U.S. Embassy] cables – which have been authenticated by the very aggressive action of the State Department towards us and by hundreds of journalists from the most reputable institutions across the world.

“That is why I said I find that statement a deliberate, knowing attempt to mislead the Indian population...Because it is directly from Prime Minister Singh's mouth and he knows better than to do that. While I have heard – I have no proof but the consensus seems to be that – he is not personally corrupt, here's a clear attempt to cover up for the possible corruption of other people. Rather than simply playing it straight, which he should have done, and say, ‘Look, there are allegations. They are serious and we will investigate them and come to the truth of the matter and give a full report to Parliament.'

“I think if he had taken that approach, he would have been served a lot better. So he has acted against his own interests and acted against the interests of his party, which is odd. So I would suggest it means that he has a habit that he was following rather than thinking things through – and a habit of reactively covering up allegations of corruption.”

These observations were made in response to one of my {N.Ram's} questions during a one-hour interview given to The Hindu at Ellingham Hall, a stately Georgian country house set amidst acres and acres of farmland in the county of Norfolk.

[JE Menon]

Guys, a question: are ALL the leaked cables available to the general public anywhere?

Or is the only way we can access them through what the newspapers who have an agreement with Assange or whoever choose to dribble out?

[chaanakya]

Guys, a question: are ALL the leaked cables available to the general public anywhere?

Or is the only way we can access them through what the newspapers who have an agreement with Assange or whoever choose to dribble out?

What is released in Newspaper ( agreement to publish first with attendant story) are available at various websites )keep changing as sites are closed down by gotus, DNS isues not IP ones)

http://wikileaks.info/

http://www.wikileaks.ch/cablegate.html

so far 6662 of 251281