China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

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Christopher Sidor
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Christopher Sidor »

UBanerjee wrote:
China axis with TSP must be factored in military scenarios. For example any analysis of IAF vis-a-vis PLAAF must also factor in the PAF. India will be flanked by China unless reverse flanking is prepared via Vietnam, Japan. India is not that behind economically, but we must admit that it is not even, and Pakistan hangs like a weight around India that China doesn't have with Taiwan, as there is no deep civilizational rift to leverage. Accepting the status quo won't do, something transformational is needed.

Also rather OT but your analysis of 'low' American casualties in WW2 reveals only facts of geography, not anything about American fighting culture (maritime war vs land war- they didn't fight a land war because the thing was in Eurasia! America is a maritime because Eurasia is the world-heart, not North America). What were they supposed to do, have their marines fight more poorly so they could look good on the blood scale? one sees Americans were quite efficient, on average only one casualty for every 5 or 6 Japanese despite being attackers on unfamiliar jungle warfare. Or get attacked by Canada (right) so they could lose tons of men fighting a land war for the home soil?
My post about American casualty was about the cost paid by others, in men lost, for an American international system.
Think about it, the most heavy casualties were paid by Soviets, Chinese, Europeans (excluding axis powers). But what replaced the European Imperialist world order was an american world order. And the ironical part is that Americans had the lowest amount of people killed. Please note I am not belittling the efforts of americans or the sacrifices they made. American endeavors were significant in scope and breath and have to be praised.

I was just pointing out that if America believes that its future combat operations are mainly going to be on sea and air, then it leaves the land fighting to some body else. And due to the nature of land combat the cost paid is higher compared to any sea or air conflict. The way I see it, is that America is shrinking from carrying its weight.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by NRao »

China's presence in PoK 'increasing steadily': Army Commander

Is this all the attention this topic gets?
China's presence in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) is "increasing steadily" and its troops are "actually present" along the Line of Control, a top Army Commander said, adding the Chinese footprints are "too close for comfort" for India.

"Chinese presence in Gilgit-Baltistan and the Northern Areas is increasing steadily... There are many people who are concerned about the fact that if there was to be hostility between us and Pakistan, what would be the complicity of Chinese. Not only they are in the neighbourhood but the fact that they are actually present and stationed along the LoC," Northern Army Commander Lt Gen K T Parnaik said here last week while addressing a seminar.

He said China's links with Pakistan through PoK "lends strength" to the "nexus" between the two countries which is a cause of "great security concern" for India.

"As part of (China's) 'strings of pearls' policy, Chinese footprints are too close for comfort," Parnaik added.

The Army Commander said such a nexus between the Chinese and Pakistani military "jeopardises our regional strategic interests in the long run and and facilitates speedy and enhanced deployment of Pakistan armed forces to complement China's military operations and thus outranks India."

He said China has been found to be involved in the construction of numerous roads and and several hydro-power projects inside PoK.

Beijing is laying a web of roads that run across areas as distant from each other as Skardu in PoK and Kunming in China near Myanmar border.

China has already constructed roads connecting all its highways to logistic centres and major defence installations that dot the border with India and the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in south-eastern Jammu and Kashmir.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by sourab_c »

^ I am personally perplexed by this Chinese move. Such a bold move indicates that they are fully confident that they will win a two front war against India in the future which will lead to full domination of China and Pakistan over India.

This is a favorable development for India. Now that Chinese presence is well established, India is free to nuke both of them without hesitation. Much better than the Chinese "secretly" arming Pakistan with nukes. This is a foolish mistake by the Chinese. Nothing Chanakyan about it...
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Boreas »

sourab_c wrote:^ I am personally perplexed by this Chinese move. Such a bold move indicates that they are fully confident that they will win a two front war against India in the future which will lead to full domination of China and Pakistan over India.

This is a favorable development for India. Now that Chinese presence is well established, India is free to nuke both of them without hesitation. Much better than the Chinese "secretly" arming Pakistan with nukes. This is a foolish mistake by the Chinese. Nothing Chanakyan about it...
This is not a fooling mistake, this is a clear statement that we can do whatever we want and you can't do anything to pressurize me leave aside the thought of stopping me.

India has a policy which forbids it from using its Nukes without any possible scenario of India getting Nuked by somebody else. So, thats not gonna happen by few chinkos making cozy barracks in our land. We will just swallow the humiliation.

This is not a favorable development, this is like somebody has spitted on our face. And we are ignoring to talk about it to avoid further humiliation.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by chackojoseph »

P Chitkara
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by P Chitkara »

If anyone wanted proof that two front scenario is a real possibility, it is there for all to see.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Singha »

er the 'two front' thing is seamlessly blending in one front from sir creek to the shores of the gulf van bengalen....

its no longer much point to talk of a single front - the pakis will happily stand aside and let the PRC attack us from POK and pakjab if requested and provide air cover and diversions further south.

Pakis should seek chinese names for their provinces like "New Shaanxi, New Anhui, New Zhejiang" etc. like new york....and rename rawalpindi as "west peking"..give up shalwar, wear silken chinese robes, no more tandoori - its steamed buns, soup and mongol grill meats....no parathas...only sticky jasmine rice with chopsticks... :D
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Nihat »

No doubt that this increases the preasure on our Army, any future armed Invasion of PoK has become tougher as I don't think PRC is stupid enough to risk their troops for TSP (especially in unilateral offensive action). China is far too pragmatic a nation for that kind of move.

Pakistans insecurity at India's military build up is clearly seen over here as they are not at all confident of defending PoK incase IA invades and given the fact that its disputed territory , the possibility of using nukes to prevent such an land assault by IA was also remote.

China moved in NE and we plugged / are plugging those holes with MKI, mountain divisions and Akash, they moved in Laddakh and we responded with expaditing road projects and improving connectivity + logistics, now they're in PoK and Indian response is awaited.

Perhaps deploying more cruise missiles in Kashmir region and threatning overt action "across POK" incase of a terror strike with TSP will put some kind of apprehension in Chinese minds. The possibility that Chinese troops could die in potential action might make them think twice as the General's statement already makes it clear we are aware of Chinese presence in the region.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by chackojoseph »

^^^^ Thats what I like about China ..... :rotfl:

They keep our babus on toes. Pre 1962 we were going to throw away our Armed Forces. Chinese attack (sad loss of lives(, made us put up Research and Pdn orgs. We even have nuke sub today.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Lalmohan »

Singha wrote:er the 'two front' thing is seamlessly blending in one front from sir creek to the shores of the gulf van bengalen....

its no longer much point to talk of a single front - the pakis will happily stand aside and let the PRC attack us from POK and pakjab if requested and provide air cover and diversions further south.

Pakis should seek chinese names for their provinces like "New Shaanxi, New Anhui, New Zhejiang" etc. like new york....and rename rawalpindi as "west peking"..give up shalwar, wear silken chinese robes, no more tandoori - its steamed buns, soup and mongol grill meats....no parathas...only sticky jasmine rice with chopsticks... :D
and lots and lots of pork!
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Singha »

ouch, I had forgotten the east asian love of pork.

that would truly complete the Sinification process of paks and give them the coveted level-1 status in the Co-prosperity Sphere.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by VinodTK »

^^^^Voice of America's views on
Indian General Expresses Concerns Over Chinese Military Presence in Kashmir
He says India has reason to be concerned.

"First of all, it jeopardizes our regional and strategic interests in the long run," he said.

Parnaik warns that China's infrastructure activities in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir. as well as in northern border areas controlled by China, enhance Pakistan's ability to flank India in the event of military conflict.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by VinodTK »

With due respects to you Joseph ji; I beg to differ with your views. Up till now the intent of Chines and Pakistan relationship was in the closet, now it has come out into the open, and the sole intent is to screw India.

Why would China want Pakistan to send troops to their western front and fight the douche bags. China would want the Americans to fight and lose as many people as possible. China will not do any thing to help the Americans.

This is a big deal and I do not know why Indian media is not picking up on this and it is not getting proper coverage.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by jai »

China's presence in PoK 'increasing ste ... Commander

This is nothing new and was discovered last year if not a couple of years back (??)

When the media created a storm over it, the typical govt response was that "we will study this development and verify it from independent sources". Now the Northern army commander is saying that this is a concern; wonder what excuse the govt is going to come out with now - either that the Army commander shot his mouth on this one and all is well, or quote the cheenee govt statement which their envoy will pass on to Krishna, to say that they are only working on development projects and have peaceful intentions..lets see ..I have given up all hope on this govt - they will only wake up after we get attacked; and sleep under the cover of verifying independently till then.

It is yet to tell the cheenees that they have no business being in POK without Indian govt permission as its Indian territory - but this is the issue, beyond being paper tigers making statements in air about POK being Indian territory, they are not willing to do anything on the ground to make it happen. Reality is, they now consider it as Pak territory and could not care less.

On the other hand, this is another smart ploy and "Insurance" policy by the pukis. They are getting the cheenees involved on the ground in POK. Next time there is a kargil or mumbai or any other /terrorist bomb attack, it will be very difficult for India to hit the terrorist camps in POK as the cheenees would be all around them and killing the cheenees there will draw out the cheenee fauj.

Ex puki foreign minister said on times now 2 days back that pukis will keep using the cheenees in POK and they are building roads, railways and dams together. Lets not forget that the same Pukis have gifted a large part of pok to the cheenees to keep India from claiming it and to build a road/rail connectivity to cheen over this territory. Interestingly, while the cangrass / govt spokesmen/women are always present on every channel to pick up a fight with anyone and everyone in any of the debates featured, they are always never there when it comes to debates on China or India's national security, I wonder why?

Cheenees are getting some pretty strategic piece of territory free of cost from the pukis which is allowing it to access Gwader port and allowing it to build an alternative to Malacca str. - where the IN and USN can squeeze their vitals; why would they mind, knowing that the GOI has no balls to confront them over or stop them in POK.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by aditya.agd »

With the Northern Command General warning us in media, will government do anything about this?
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by shiv »

aditya.agd wrote:With the Northern Command General warning us in media, will government do anything about this?
If you were the government of India what would you do?
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by sourab_c »

shiv wrote: If you were the government of India what would you do?
While I still believe that this is a strategic mistake by the Chinese, here are a few things that can be done:-

1) Release a public statement reiterating that any project that the Chinese undertake in POK would be considered illegal without the approval of the GOI as POK is an integral part of India.

2) Instruct IAF to conduct sorties inside POK for surveillance of any Chinese activities by UAVs.

3) Fire warning artillery/mortar/rockets where Chinese are believed to be working.

4) Order DRDO to ramp up production of Brahmos and install new batteries of the same in J&K.

India needs to abandon its policy of strategic restraint and its fear of escalation. A policy is as good as the benefits it brings to a nation. If a policy is working against you, it is time to move on.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by NRao »

With all due respect ........... there are OTHER dots too:

U.S.-China relationship: A shift in perceptions of power

China IS a power. No matter what others think of that, Chinese PLA for sure think that way. And, for what it is worth, the US is also getting a dose of this "power".
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by NRao »

sourab_c wrote:
shiv wrote: If you were the government of India what would you do?
India needs to abandon its policy of strategic restraint and its fear of escalation. A policy is as good as the benefits it brings to a nation. If a policy is working against you, it is time to move on.
India has moved on. She intends opening a dialog with the true powers of Pakistan: Kiyani and Pasha!!!

Belatedly, granted.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by tejas »

Shiv said
If you were the government of India what would you do?
Unfortunately, Shiv garu, there's not a whole hell of a lot the GOI can do. The wasted decades from 1965-1981 where GDP growth was barely 3% and per capita GDP growth less than 1% were the years that most of asia passed us by. Even now with our piss poor infrastructure and labor laws which disfavor hiring our manufacturing output is less than 1/10th China's. To add to the misery we cannot even take advantage of lower labor/manufacturing costs for defense hardware in India because our PSU's seem to constantly need ToT and we import even handguns and fuses for artillery shells.

The fact that the PRC is openly deploying soldiers in POK tells everyone the contempt they hold India in. Just as I blame blame the UQ for many of the international conflicts vexing the world today, I blame most of today's problems facing India to one accursed family. You might have heard of them, every other gov't project is named after them. India is being outspent probably 5 to 1 by China on defense. Other than rescinding NFU and lowering our threshold for using nukes I don't think we can do anything to put the fear of God into the Chinese.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by shiv »

sourab_c wrote:
shiv wrote: If you were the government of India what would you do?
While I still believe that this is a strategic mistake by the Chinese, here are a few things that can be done:-

1) Release a public statement reiterating that any project that the Chinese undertake in POK would be considered illegal without the approval of the GOI as POK is an integral part of India.

2) Instruct IAF to conduct sorties inside POK for surveillance of any Chinese activities by UAVs.

3) Fire warning artillery/mortar/rockets where Chinese are believed to be working.

4) Order DRDO to ramp up production of Brahmos and install new batteries of the same in J&K.

India needs to abandon its policy of strategic restraint and its fear of escalation. A policy is as good as the benefits it brings to a nation. If a policy is working against you, it is time to move on.
Sourab, thanks for taking the trouble to reply. Two points.

1) I believe this discussion should be in the other forum
2) You know - when any person - be it me or you makes a statement of opinion such as you have made it is dead easy to be a troll and argue against everything. In this case it would be easy to pose arguments against what you have said and a lot of trolls do exactly that. They do not post any opinions of their own but merely wait for others to say things and then proceed to knock down others' opinions. My intention is not to do that. Please don't take it in that way but I will pose a few questions based on what you have said without having had the brainpower to express any opinion of my own.
1) Release a public statement reiterating that any project that the Chinese undertake in POK would be considered illegal without the approval of the GOI as POK is an integral part of India.
I believe that the Chinese would state that they consider PoK Pakistani territory and we have to be ready for that response. It may lad to a war of words that has no non military solution.
2) Instruct IAF to conduct sorties inside POK for surveillance of any Chinese activities by UAVs.
What would we do when, sooner or later, one of our aircraft is shot down by the Chinese posing as Pakistanis - or assisting the Pakistanis. This would be tantamount to declaring war so we are looking at a military option.
3) Fire warning artillery/mortar/rockets where Chinese are believed to be working.
I am on shaky ground here. I do not think those areas are within artillery range - but may be within Smerch/Pinaka range. These are area weapons and may not be suitable for mountain targets. This is an act of war. we are again looking at a military option
4) Order DRDO to ramp up production of Brahmos and install new batteries of the same in J&K.
No disagreement with this.

But this is where we get into a circular argument. All options seem to be leading to war. But as discussed war can be tilted oen way or another by the US who can calibrate its response/interference to get an outcome that the US wants rather than an outcome that India wants. If the desired outcome for the US is for India to get PoK militarily - at best they will stay out. If the best outcome for the US is to maintain status quo and help the Pakis remain a viable state, then India will basically be fighting the US, China and Pakistan in PoK.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by shiv »

tejas wrote:Shiv said
If you were the government of India what would you do?
Unfortunately, Shiv garu, there's not a whole hell of a lot the GOI can do.
Exactly my point.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by chackojoseph »

VinodTK wrote:With due respects to you Joseph ji; I beg to differ with your views. Up till now the intent of Chines and Pakistan relationship was in the closet, now it has come out into the open, and the sole intent is to screw India.

Why would China want Pakistan to send troops to their western front and fight the douche bags. China would want the Americans to fight and lose as many people as possible. China will not do any thing to help the Americans.

This is a big deal and I do not know why Indian media is not picking up on this and it is not getting proper coverage.
IMHO Chinese are as concerned about the lawlessness due to 1) they have economic interest 2) it borders their own troubled regions 3) a land route to Arabian Sea.

Also the Chin - Pak CIS dreams are at stake.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Singha »

POK is probably also seen as a buffer to safeguard East turkestan from jihadis based out of Pak. and what better than loyal and ruthless PLA troops to control all the routes in this buffer.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by chackojoseph »

^^^^^ and money from US of A. Americans burn money, Pakis die and Chinese make merry.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by P Chitkara »

Pakis will jump in if the chinese ask them to do it in case of hostilities with us. Does anyone think china is not pragmatic enough to avoid jumping in if the pakis ask them to do it?

One thing we can do is, convey them that in case of any hostilities, their troops in pok suffering causalities will solely be their responsibility - collateral damage as they say.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Kailash »

MEA seeks report on China's LoC presence
Foreign secretary Nirupama Rao said she had asked for a ‘more detailed report’ from the defence ministry on the issue. She, however, added that incidents of ‘transgressions’ were not a new phenomenon.

“The correct term is transgression and not incursion. There are transgressions from time to time when Chinese troops come over to our side of the line of actual control and occasionally we are told that we cross into their side,” Rao said. She said such issues had to be discussed rationally. “There is no point in trying to raise the temperature and to accentuate tension.”
Since when is "Transgressions" = "deliberate stationing of troops"? Guess they could not pick a milder word than "Transgression" to describe whats happening in PoK
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by chackojoseph »

P Chitkara wrote:Pakis will jump in if the chinese ask them to do it in case of hostilities with us. Does anyone think china is not pragmatic enough to avoid jumping in if the pakis ask them to do it?
IMO, Pakis may not jump. The money still comes from "amma"rica. Besides Pakis want to ensure that US and India are kept at bay with chinese presence.

What it means to us:

The territory is anyway not with us, so it does not mean much if pakis or chinis are there. Pakis were always considerd an extension of chini forces. Just that, they have thrown the pretense and actually demonstrated in now as Pakis are being wrested away from the Indian borders by Americans. Now , we don't have to worry much about Paki designs and focus more on chinese designs. I had written something near to it in 2009, if you are interested Proxy Pakistan busy, India can look at containing China
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Austin »

DIA: WORLD WIDE THREAT ASSESSMENT
Statement before the Committee on Armed Services, United States Senate
Ronald L. Burgess, Jr. Lieutenant General, U.S. Army
Director, Defense Intelligence Agency
China. While China’s military strategy may be defensive, its doctrine calls for seizing the initiative, including possible preemptive acts. China continues to field new weapons and test doctrines to counter U.S. capabilities. It increasingly can carry out military operations along its periphery. Growth in space, cyberspace, electronic warfare, and long-range precision strike capabilities could enable Beijing to delay or degrade U.S. military forces entering the region during a conflict.

China-Taiwan relations improved in 2010 as both sides are seeking economic and cultural engagement. Beijing seems willing to hold off on sensitive political or military talks, and it is showing flexibility by allowing Taiwan to participate in the World Health Assembly, which does not require sovereign status. Nevertheless, Beijing maintains its military presence opposite Taiwan and continues deploying many of China’s most advanced weapon systems across the Strait. Consistent with this approach, the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) remains focused on Taiwan contingencies.

We estimate China spent more than $160 billion on military-related goods and services in 2010, compared to the $79 billion Beijing reported in its official military budget. The published budget omits major categories, but does show spending increases for domestic military production, foreign acquisitions, and programs to improve professionalism and quality of life among military personnel.

The PLA Air Force continues to acquire precision-strike weapons, aircraft with greater ranges, and offensive electronic warfare capabilities. PLA Navy progress in aircraft carrier research and development could enable China to start building a series of domestically produced carriers and associated support ships by 2020.

China is having moderate success introducing new missiles. The PRC currently has fewer than 50 ICBMs that can strike the continental United States, but probably will more than double that number by 2025. To modernize the nuclear missile force, China is adding more survivable systems, such as the road-mobile DF-31A ICBM. China deploys a limited but growing number of conventionally armed, medium-range ballistic missiles, including the DF-21C, and it likely is nearing deployment of a medium-range antiship ballistic missile. It has more than 1,000 CSS-6 and CSS-7 conventional short-range ballistic missiles opposite Taiwan for a variety of precision strike missions. It also is forming more missile units, upgrading some older missile systems, and developing methods to penetrate missile defenses. China, also a world leader in underground construction technology, is putting more of its military facilities below ground.

Realistic and complex training is part of the PLA’s modernization and professionalization efforts. MISSION ACTION 2010, the past year’s most comprehensive mobilization training event, involved ground forces from three military regions. Greater force diversity now includes training for military operations other than war with emphasis on counterterrorism, emergency response, disaster relief, and international peacekeeping operations. The PLA is seeking bilateral training with a diverse set of countries in these areas and combat operations as well, and also emphasizing joint training under high-technology conditions.

PLA Navy ships routinely operate in the South and East China Seas, including patrols near the Spratly and Paracel Islands. Chinese military and civilian ships continue to respond to U.S. naval research vessels in both areas, but the extent to which Beijing coordinates these responses is unclear.

The space program, including ostensible civil projects, supports China’s growing ability to deny or degrade the space assets of potential adversaries. China operates satellites for communications, navigation, earth resources, and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance. It has successfully tested a direct ascent ASAT and is developing jammers and kinetic and directed-energy weapons for ASAT missions.Technologies from its manned and lunar space programs enhance China’s ability to track and identify satellites, a prerequisite for ASAT attacks. Beijing is also increasing the quantity and quality of its satellite constellations, enabling space-based intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, in addition to navigation and communication services. Some Chinese military commentary heavily promotes the importance of controlling space, noting the role of space in long-distance targeting and other battlefield domains. Beijing, however, rarely acknowledges direct military applications of its space program and refers to nearly all satellite launches as scientific or civil in nature.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Kailash »

China's first aircraft carrier to be completed soon: reports
“The work on Varyag (the Soviet Union name of the carrier) has entered its last stage, with its hull being painted in the standard Chinese naval color — light gray-blue,” the report said.
The ship was towed to a dock at the port of Dalian in 2002, where it has been under reconstruction ever since. The work on the vessel included the installation of power systems, electronically scanned array radars, and surface-to-air missiles.

China's official Xinhua News Agency posted a picture of the carrier Wednesday on its website with the caption, “Giant ship to make maiden voyage, Chinese dream comes true after 70 years.”
picture i found in one of the blogs. Can some guru comment on the identity of the ship?
Last edited by Kailash on 07 Apr 2011 22:07, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by abhik »

Christopher Sidor wrote:Abhi i beg to differ. We are not 50-80 years behind China in defense and economic spheres.
In spite of the GDP numbers tell, we are not that far behind. While China has been able to sustain double digit growth for a decade or more, we have not been able to do the same. This does not mean that China's lead over India is insurmountable. Far from it. The more you look closely at china, the more fragile it looks, economically. China took in some 40 billion US Dollars FDI to produce a double digit growth. We took in some 8-10 billion US Dollar FDI to produce a 7-8% growth rate. With due respect to the low base on which our growth is based, we are much more efficient at utilizing capital than China will ever be.
Sorry for the late reply, I dint imply that we are 50-80 years behind China but that India's GDP will not exceed China's before that time frame. Its economy is already 3-4 times ours, a ratio at which the two economies cannot really comparable to each other. And it is still growing faster than us and the gap is only getting larger. Also as somebody pointed out our industrial capacity is only about 10% that of China. While there have been many dooms day predictions going as far back as decade ago, they obviously haven't come true, so I take the newer predictions and projections with a pinch of salt.
Let us now take up the militarily sphere. After this decade, the PRC will realize that it will not be the country which can field the largest and youngest army. Rather it is going to be India. PRC also realizes that its logistics lines are stretched w.r.t to Tibet and Xianjing. With respect to Central China the situation reverses, Our logistics lines get stretched to breaking point. We have been slow in building up logistics to our north-eastern and north-western Himalayas, but it was due to the some egg-headed thinking in MoD and GoI. It is changing slowly and when it does change entirely we will see a sea change. Dont forget in 1987-89 we successfully deterred Chinese threat to our north-eastern borders.
I have no doubt that we will be able to deter with in our own borders, what concerns me is that China will be able to muscle us outside our borders.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by rajrang »

shiv wrote:
aditya.agd wrote:With the Northern Command General warning us in media, will government do anything about this?
If you were the government of India what would you do?
Start raising new mountain divisions with associated artillery (two for starters) similar to the NE, buy another 4 Sukhoi squadrons to be based in Ladakh, add Brahmos. It may take 2+ years before such forces become available, however, this should signal India's firm response to the new provocation.

In any case the number of mountain divisions facing China in Ladakh and Uttaranchal is much less (is it 2?) than the numbers in the NE (Sikkim, Bhutan, AP) sector (is it 9?). So it is high time this is corrected. The Chinese provocation has given India the excuse to bolster this sector. We should thank them!
Last edited by rajrang on 09 Apr 2011 14:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by nits »

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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by paultd »

Chinese aircraft carrier ready for trials?
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/chines ... or-trials/

China rejects reports about troop presence in POK
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/china- ... ce-in-pok/
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by manum »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 930199.cms
"We have a strong real time intelligence sharing mechanism with the US and they have conveyed the same thing to Indian agencies including RAW – that these troops are stationed all along the LoC in PoK. They conveyed this to Indian agencies independently without us seeking any confirmation from them," said an official, adding that the government at the highest level was aware of the latest developments in PoK.

"Their confirmation seemed to be based on technical intelligence. They said these Chinese troops seemed to be involved in construction activities," he added. He, however, added that this was not the first time there was confirmation from the US about heightened Chinese activity along the LoC but that was restricted to the Gilgit-Baltistan area.
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by NRao »

Three things:

1) Good to see Indian escalation. It is very important to place China where they belong - among liars.
2) IF we are to believe this report, it shows a far closer relationship with some US agencies. (Add to this the Indian snoop scoop of Pasha-Karzai talk and the picture is getting clearer.) As indicated many a times, there will be a closure to strategic thinking just because of China. India/ns cannot run away from that. The alignment will get closer too in the next 10 years.
3) Concern (on my part) about the MEA seeking a "detailed report" from the MoD - at THIS stage of the game. Find it very hard to believe that they do not talk to each other on such sensitive terms. IF they do then I would expect MEA to be more assertive at this point in time. This highly placed person has certainly placed Nirupama ji in a diff situation. everybody seems to have a good deal of details, but she or the MEA does not?
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by paultd »

China’s Navy: rising threat
News broke this week that China may be nearly ready to launch its first aircraft carrier.
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/chinas ... ng-threat/
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by paultd »

US agencies confirm presence of Chinese troops along LoC in PoK
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/us-age ... oc-in-pok/
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Samay »

The chinese forces present in pok could spark a small scale war between India and pakistan when they find it most suitable,this is what they always wish for .

Their presence in pok gives them a unique strategic advantage wrto India,US,CAR,afghanistan but the present danger is that they will fortify pok ,make infrastructural developments for pakistan ,deploy WMDs(no doubt) and maintain a permanent base to keep tab on Indian side. As soon as the US leaves Afpak they are going to take centre stage in the great game .

Our reaction till now is very subtle like the way mms govt works, and this is very dangerous.

We must tell them that this is enough . There must be very strong reaction from our side . At least we can learn from history ,what US did during cuba crisis. The chinis arent any smaller threat than the ussr was for america . They will certainly be creating something very evil something very mandarin nature out there.
We need a JFK type leader here and a a$$ kicking response.

BTW

Somebody please wake up the Banker .
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Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Post by Don »

abhik wrote:Sorry for the late reply, I dint imply that we are 50-80 years behind China but that India's GDP will not exceed China's before that time frame. Its economy is already 3-4 times ours, a ratio at which the two economies cannot really comparable to each other. And it is still growing faster than us and the gap is only getting larger. Also as somebody pointed out our industrial capacity is only about 10% that of China. While there have been many dooms day predictions going as far back as decade ago, they obviously haven't come true, so I take the newer predictions and projections with a pinch of salt.
Here is the top 20 Economic power in 2010. Look at its prediction until 2015 its even more interesting.

http://money.cnn.com/news/economy/g20/i ... ml?cnn=yes
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