Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
maybe the AJT Hawks armed with guns is best for the role. even LCH/WSI Dhruv should be able to give chase and shoot - albeit both these platforms have no radar.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
First, let the OFB translate the world class system into production reality. Second, IA needs to absorb this system - there is no precedence of such a system in IA - unless, you put BRDM in the same class. I expect the demand to run into at least 60 systems in short run, but let us wait and watch.ramana wrote:One issue is that the services order NAG in miniscule qtys, so to get the unit costs down becomes hard. They are eager to buy large numbers of imported stuff but always give trickle qtys for local stuff.
Maybe once they see the LCH become inducted they might order more of the HELINA. Why cant they seek the triple launcher for other helis in service already? Maybe integration issues?
Other ATGMs are replacements of present system or addition to the same. As for integration with other helicopter assets, we don't know where HELINA stands. Candidates are WSI Dhruv, LCH and Mi-35...unless, HELINA is certified, everything else is speculation.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
There is a LSP for Nag. IMO, it will be inducted in quantities. Army knows its worth. DRDo, should accomodate Army requests, if any, in mark 1, 2, 3. This will help it not going the Arjun way back in past. The missle is very advanced, even in current form.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Yes but what the IAF was happy about was the slow flying UAV entered Pakistan near Jammu and flew 100 Km before being detected and was shot down near Lahore, apprently there were quite a few Aim 9L's fired before the UAV was taken down due the reasons mentioned slow speed and diffculty in getting an IR lock.shiv wrote:Well we don't have any F-16s so we can't do the same.saip wrote:Didnt the Pakis shoot down one of our (Isreali made) UAVs with their F16s? So what cant we do the same?
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
As per the article below, NAMICAs will be equipping Reconnaissance and Support Battalions of mechanized formations.rohitvats wrote:First, let the OFB translate the world class system into production reality. Second, IA needs to absorb this system - there is no precedence of such a system in IA - unless, you put BRDM in the same class. I expect the demand to run into at least 60 systems in short run, but let us wait and watch.ramana wrote:One issue is that the services order NAG in miniscule qtys, so to get the unit costs down becomes hard. They are eager to buy large numbers of imported stuff but always give trickle qtys for local stuff.
Maybe once they see the LCH become inducted they might order more of the HELINA. Why cant they seek the triple launcher for other helis in service already? Maybe integration issues?
Other ATGMs are replacements of present system or addition to the same. As for integration with other helicopter assets, we don't know where HELINA stands. Candidates are WSI Dhruv, LCH and Mi-35...unless, HELINA is certified, everything else is speculation.
Army opts for Nag missile as it enters final trials
You had done some numbers on the IA's mechanized formations some while ago. Maybe you will have an idea on how many would be required ... if as per above ... hints at 13 NAMICAs making up a R&S battalion x ??? number of mechanized regiments/brigades.So confident is the army about the Nag that, even before trails are completed, it has budgeted Rs 335 crores for buying 443 Nag missiles, which will be manufactured at the public sector Bharat Dynamics Limited. The missiles will equip Reconnaissance and Support Battalions, mechanised units that locate and destroy enemy tanks.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
I think what the Pakistanis are trying to do with armed drones is to try a few sneak attacks on Indian targets during wartime.
They know that aircraft of the PAF will be shot down by the air defence network or the IAF planes. So their hope is to try and sneak in a few UAVs mostly on soosai missions to snipe at some field formation.
Their other aim might be to use it to support the Taliban using UAVs or Armed drones should the talibs have to move against the NA, or to take out Baloch leadership in Afghanistan.
They know that aircraft of the PAF will be shot down by the air defence network or the IAF planes. So their hope is to try and sneak in a few UAVs mostly on soosai missions to snipe at some field formation.
Their other aim might be to use it to support the Taliban using UAVs or Armed drones should the talibs have to move against the NA, or to take out Baloch leadership in Afghanistan.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Ramanaji, here is a trans. of the second one.
New weapons ancient sultan
Ambitions of the Indian military and political leadership in establishing its own missile systems for various purposes have long roots. According to Indian military historians, India - one of the first countries in the world, successfully and in a fairly large scale used missile weapons: documented facts related to the XVIII century. Then, Tipu Sultan, the head of the principality of Mysore, known as the Tiger of Mysore by the British, led the liberation struggle against colonial troops. According to surviving documents and the testimony of contemporaries, the Army Corps of Tipu Sultan actively enforce the primitive rockets as an aid and weapons of mass support. "
The British appreciated the new weapon Tipu Sultan, and after the experience gained by them during the 2 nd and 4 th Anglo-Mysore War, adopted a similar rocket - the inventor Sir William Congreve created on the basis of their missiles, that bear his name (Congreve Rocket), successfully applied in the Anglo-French and other wars, as well as being on weapons of other countries, including the Russian empire.
With regard to modern India, a major role in strengthening its defense capability has played a so-called integrated development program guided missile (IGMDP - Integrated Guided Missile Development Program). First of all she has achieved a level of development of national missile industry, which made possible the realization of the principle of "self-reliance."
Officially part of a comprehensive program of work carried out on six projects. Among these missiles strategic ballistic missiles and intercontinental secondary (or intermediate) range of the family "Agni" (later, was tasked with creating on their basis of an intercontinental ballistic missile) defense systems are tactical and operational-tactical ballistic missile family "Prithvi" , anti-aircraft missile complexes with anti-aircraft guided missile "Akash" and "Trishul", a guided missile air-based Astra air-to-air missiles and anti-tank missile system with antitank guided missile "Nag". Sometimes this program rank as well as missile system with a cruise missile "Brahmos", but it is not - work on this complex were outside the scope of a comprehensive program as a separate Russian-Indian project.
Journey of Dr. Kalam
[Rocket pride of India]
Collage Andrew Sedykh
Development of the main provisions of a comprehensive program involved the then head of DRDL (Defense Research and Development Laboratory - a unit of DRDO, located in Hyderabad, India) and now president of the republic Dr. Abdul Kalam, who has since often referred to as the "father of Indian missile program." Within six months, Kalam and veterans DRDL with the assistance of Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister and DRDO chief Dr. VS Arunachalama have studied the basic directions in the development of guided missile weapons, and then presented their papers to the court the defense minister and prime minister of India. And initially it was not about a single program - to create a ATGM ATGM "Nag", SAM with SAM "Akash" and "Trishul", complexes with BR "Prithvi and Agni assumed in separate, unconnected with other projects consistently implemented one after another. However, at the request of Defense Minister R. Venkataraman and Dr. Kalam Arunachalam combine these programs into one comprehensive program, officially started work on it July 27, 1983.
To implement a comprehensive program was created by a special council, chaired by Kalam. However, it has delegated powers are large enough - both the executive and financial - of five directors of the projects, leaving behind only the major issues. Including liaising with more than two dozen subcontractors. As there were new missiles, grew in popularity of Dr. Kalam. It has played a role in the electoral process to the post of President of India. By the way, few know that Abdul Kalam has a fairly good literary taste. Seventeen of his best poems were translated into English in 1994 and published in a book titled "My Journey".
Confused by all the
The latest example of missile weapons, created through an integrated program, became an intercontinental ballistic missile, or, as it is often called the West, intermediate-range ballistic missile "Agni III» - Two-stage solid propellant ballistic missile with a range of start-up not less than 5500 kilometers to install a warhead weighing 1,500 kilos. Successful trials of the Indian missile experts conducted July 9, 2007. During the second half of 2007, carried missiles and refinement of defects observed observations, and then on January 8 and May 7, 2008 successfully completed the second and third test of an ICBM Agni III ». Shortly after the third test of the missile guidance DRDO has officially announced the closing of the Integrated development program guided missile weapon in connection with the decision of the main tasks. With regard to further work on the missile topics, they both said the Director of DRDO Dr. S. Prahlada, will be conducted within the framework of individual projects and programs, including in cooperation with foreign companies and their financing is scheduled to be carried out within budget allocations for the five-year program of military construction, traditionally implemented in India.
It is also interesting that the 17 February 2008 in an interview with one of the Indian media Dr Prahlada said: "The development of missile" Agni III »no longer are part of integrated development program guided missile weapons. The project to create missile Agni I », that little known, also was not included formally in the program. In fact, after successfully carried out three launches first rocket family Agni - the launch of the demonstrator, we have derived works on missile "Agni" 1, 2, and the third update in a separate project for this we received separate permission from the government. " Here is a Indian specific - confused by all, including their military experts.
From ATGM to IDB
Indian military historians today are more inclined to consider a comprehensive program, though important, but still one of the "intermediate projects, implemented within the national strategic missile programs implemented during the second half of the twentieth century. Indian specialists are five stages of the program.
The first phase (from 1958 to 1970) - in its framework was created by an anti-missile system with antitank guided missile and developed the first generation liquid rocket engine thrust of 3000 kgf (presumably with the extensive use of technologies borrowed from the missiles of the Soviet anti-aircraft missile system S-75) .
The second (from 1971 to 1979) - as part of this phase efforts of Indian professionals have focused on two areas: "Devil» (Project Devil) and "Valiant» (Project Valiant). Before the "Devil" was tasked to define a national anti-aircraft guided missile on the basis of Soviet missiles of C-75. The work was done by specialists DRDL - originally created this laboratory to develop a national ATGM officially work on the project "Devil" began in early 1972 on the initiative of Mr. Narayanan, appointed in January of that year, director DRDL. In June 1972, DRDL received the first tranche of government funding (for "Devil" and "Valiant" has been allocated 160 million rupees, of which 50 million was intended "Devil") for three years. And this fact - the financing Delhi missile projects - remained under the cloak of secrecy for many years. The decision to start funding these missile programs was taken personally by Prime Minister of India Indira Gandhi.
According to Indian sources, approximately half earmarked for the project "Devil" means a developer has spent on the purchase abroad the necessary high-tech equipment and special materials, as well as the financing of subcontracts issued by Indian companies - HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) and Bharat Heavy Pleyts End Wessels Limited »(Bharat Heavy Plates & Vessels Limited), to assemble a 350-pound body sustainer rocket engine and launch the solid rocket motor.
However, studies were not entirely successful, and in 1974 decided to reorient the project "Devil" from the immediate establishment of SAM on the development of advanced missile technology, which "may prove useful in further efforts to create a guided missile weapons." In January 1975 the leadership of the Indian Space Research Organization requested an independent evaluation of the project "Devil." In March a report was submitted to the government - claim that on a number of specialists DRDL achieved some success, but after a few more years of work project "Devil" in 1980, has been closed (disagrees with the decision Narayanan resigned as director DRDL - on his place was appointed SL Bansal).
The main task of the second project - "Valiant" - it was determined the creation of a ballistic missile with a range starting about 1500 kilometers (some sources even flashed range of 8000 kilometers, which is, of course, can be regarded as just a fantasy), work on it engaged experts DRDL and also in conditions of secrecy. Estimated starting weight of developing ballistic missiles was about 85 tons, a three-stage missile itself - each step based on liquid rocket engine. Direct engineering design work on the project "Valiant" began in 1972, but were initially not shaky or rolls, though May 10, 1974 tests were carried out under the project developed a rocket engine. But then work at an impasse, and after a request formal Delhi about the likelihood of developments on the project "Valiant" in the interests of national civil space program guide DRDL responded negatively, the military-political leadership of India at the end of that year decided to close the project "Valiant". It is interesting that one of the Indian journalist who specializes in aviation and space topics, in his article published in 2006 in the newspaper The Daily Star, on the basis of the collected material and conducted interviews with various experts described the project "Valiant" not otherwise totally disastrous .
The third stage (from 1980 to 1994) - defining a new concept of work aimed at creating different patterns guided missile weapons, which was agreed to develop and implement the previously mentioned complex program development guided missile weapons. This stage is considered by Indian experts as the most important because in this period have been developed and partially implemented plans to create various samples of missile systems, as well as laid the foundation stone of a national missile program, including development of space launch vehicles.
The fourth stage (from 1995 to 2000) - within it, according to Indian experts, the national military-industrial complex and scientific organizations in India was in general to solve the basic problem posed by the military-political leadership in the creation of an "own-missile shield and sword , as well as the development of missile technology that could help Delhi to carry out a national program on space exploration and use space for India's civilian and military customers. And highlights the fact that due to the completion of development within this stage missiles with ballistic missiles families "Prithvi" / "Dhanush and Agni and acceptance of their adopted land forces, air and naval forces of India, the country received reliable and effective strategic deterrent - an important factor in the nuclear standoff with neighboring Pakistan as the most likely opponent, and China - as potential enemy, but, so to speak, less likely.
The fifth stage of the national missile program was initiated in 2001 and continues to this day, despite the closure in 2007-2008, a comprehensive program. Under this phase of Indian experts carried out the development of intercontinental ballistic missiles - more precisely, even a few of its options, and refinement-based ballistic missile boat "Sagarika", which should be the main strike weapons promising nuclear missile submarine of strategic purpose. In addition, during the fifth phase of planned and work began to build missile defenses, they are maintained in a separate subroutine, and the first successful launch of missiles, according to Indian sources, have been conducted, the results are satisfactory.
New weapons ancient sultan
Ambitions of the Indian military and political leadership in establishing its own missile systems for various purposes have long roots. According to Indian military historians, India - one of the first countries in the world, successfully and in a fairly large scale used missile weapons: documented facts related to the XVIII century. Then, Tipu Sultan, the head of the principality of Mysore, known as the Tiger of Mysore by the British, led the liberation struggle against colonial troops. According to surviving documents and the testimony of contemporaries, the Army Corps of Tipu Sultan actively enforce the primitive rockets as an aid and weapons of mass support. "
The British appreciated the new weapon Tipu Sultan, and after the experience gained by them during the 2 nd and 4 th Anglo-Mysore War, adopted a similar rocket - the inventor Sir William Congreve created on the basis of their missiles, that bear his name (Congreve Rocket), successfully applied in the Anglo-French and other wars, as well as being on weapons of other countries, including the Russian empire.
With regard to modern India, a major role in strengthening its defense capability has played a so-called integrated development program guided missile (IGMDP - Integrated Guided Missile Development Program). First of all she has achieved a level of development of national missile industry, which made possible the realization of the principle of "self-reliance."
Officially part of a comprehensive program of work carried out on six projects. Among these missiles strategic ballistic missiles and intercontinental secondary (or intermediate) range of the family "Agni" (later, was tasked with creating on their basis of an intercontinental ballistic missile) defense systems are tactical and operational-tactical ballistic missile family "Prithvi" , anti-aircraft missile complexes with anti-aircraft guided missile "Akash" and "Trishul", a guided missile air-based Astra air-to-air missiles and anti-tank missile system with antitank guided missile "Nag". Sometimes this program rank as well as missile system with a cruise missile "Brahmos", but it is not - work on this complex were outside the scope of a comprehensive program as a separate Russian-Indian project.
Journey of Dr. Kalam
[Rocket pride of India]
Collage Andrew Sedykh
Development of the main provisions of a comprehensive program involved the then head of DRDL (Defense Research and Development Laboratory - a unit of DRDO, located in Hyderabad, India) and now president of the republic Dr. Abdul Kalam, who has since often referred to as the "father of Indian missile program." Within six months, Kalam and veterans DRDL with the assistance of Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister and DRDO chief Dr. VS Arunachalama have studied the basic directions in the development of guided missile weapons, and then presented their papers to the court the defense minister and prime minister of India. And initially it was not about a single program - to create a ATGM ATGM "Nag", SAM with SAM "Akash" and "Trishul", complexes with BR "Prithvi and Agni assumed in separate, unconnected with other projects consistently implemented one after another. However, at the request of Defense Minister R. Venkataraman and Dr. Kalam Arunachalam combine these programs into one comprehensive program, officially started work on it July 27, 1983.
To implement a comprehensive program was created by a special council, chaired by Kalam. However, it has delegated powers are large enough - both the executive and financial - of five directors of the projects, leaving behind only the major issues. Including liaising with more than two dozen subcontractors. As there were new missiles, grew in popularity of Dr. Kalam. It has played a role in the electoral process to the post of President of India. By the way, few know that Abdul Kalam has a fairly good literary taste. Seventeen of his best poems were translated into English in 1994 and published in a book titled "My Journey".
Confused by all the
The latest example of missile weapons, created through an integrated program, became an intercontinental ballistic missile, or, as it is often called the West, intermediate-range ballistic missile "Agni III» - Two-stage solid propellant ballistic missile with a range of start-up not less than 5500 kilometers to install a warhead weighing 1,500 kilos. Successful trials of the Indian missile experts conducted July 9, 2007. During the second half of 2007, carried missiles and refinement of defects observed observations, and then on January 8 and May 7, 2008 successfully completed the second and third test of an ICBM Agni III ». Shortly after the third test of the missile guidance DRDO has officially announced the closing of the Integrated development program guided missile weapon in connection with the decision of the main tasks. With regard to further work on the missile topics, they both said the Director of DRDO Dr. S. Prahlada, will be conducted within the framework of individual projects and programs, including in cooperation with foreign companies and their financing is scheduled to be carried out within budget allocations for the five-year program of military construction, traditionally implemented in India.
It is also interesting that the 17 February 2008 in an interview with one of the Indian media Dr Prahlada said: "The development of missile" Agni III »no longer are part of integrated development program guided missile weapons. The project to create missile Agni I », that little known, also was not included formally in the program. In fact, after successfully carried out three launches first rocket family Agni - the launch of the demonstrator, we have derived works on missile "Agni" 1, 2, and the third update in a separate project for this we received separate permission from the government. " Here is a Indian specific - confused by all, including their military experts.
From ATGM to IDB
Indian military historians today are more inclined to consider a comprehensive program, though important, but still one of the "intermediate projects, implemented within the national strategic missile programs implemented during the second half of the twentieth century. Indian specialists are five stages of the program.
The first phase (from 1958 to 1970) - in its framework was created by an anti-missile system with antitank guided missile and developed the first generation liquid rocket engine thrust of 3000 kgf (presumably with the extensive use of technologies borrowed from the missiles of the Soviet anti-aircraft missile system S-75) .
The second (from 1971 to 1979) - as part of this phase efforts of Indian professionals have focused on two areas: "Devil» (Project Devil) and "Valiant» (Project Valiant). Before the "Devil" was tasked to define a national anti-aircraft guided missile on the basis of Soviet missiles of C-75. The work was done by specialists DRDL - originally created this laboratory to develop a national ATGM officially work on the project "Devil" began in early 1972 on the initiative of Mr. Narayanan, appointed in January of that year, director DRDL. In June 1972, DRDL received the first tranche of government funding (for "Devil" and "Valiant" has been allocated 160 million rupees, of which 50 million was intended "Devil") for three years. And this fact - the financing Delhi missile projects - remained under the cloak of secrecy for many years. The decision to start funding these missile programs was taken personally by Prime Minister of India Indira Gandhi.
According to Indian sources, approximately half earmarked for the project "Devil" means a developer has spent on the purchase abroad the necessary high-tech equipment and special materials, as well as the financing of subcontracts issued by Indian companies - HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) and Bharat Heavy Pleyts End Wessels Limited »(Bharat Heavy Plates & Vessels Limited), to assemble a 350-pound body sustainer rocket engine and launch the solid rocket motor.
However, studies were not entirely successful, and in 1974 decided to reorient the project "Devil" from the immediate establishment of SAM on the development of advanced missile technology, which "may prove useful in further efforts to create a guided missile weapons." In January 1975 the leadership of the Indian Space Research Organization requested an independent evaluation of the project "Devil." In March a report was submitted to the government - claim that on a number of specialists DRDL achieved some success, but after a few more years of work project "Devil" in 1980, has been closed (disagrees with the decision Narayanan resigned as director DRDL - on his place was appointed SL Bansal).
The main task of the second project - "Valiant" - it was determined the creation of a ballistic missile with a range starting about 1500 kilometers (some sources even flashed range of 8000 kilometers, which is, of course, can be regarded as just a fantasy), work on it engaged experts DRDL and also in conditions of secrecy. Estimated starting weight of developing ballistic missiles was about 85 tons, a three-stage missile itself - each step based on liquid rocket engine. Direct engineering design work on the project "Valiant" began in 1972, but were initially not shaky or rolls, though May 10, 1974 tests were carried out under the project developed a rocket engine. But then work at an impasse, and after a request formal Delhi about the likelihood of developments on the project "Valiant" in the interests of national civil space program guide DRDL responded negatively, the military-political leadership of India at the end of that year decided to close the project "Valiant". It is interesting that one of the Indian journalist who specializes in aviation and space topics, in his article published in 2006 in the newspaper The Daily Star, on the basis of the collected material and conducted interviews with various experts described the project "Valiant" not otherwise totally disastrous .
The third stage (from 1980 to 1994) - defining a new concept of work aimed at creating different patterns guided missile weapons, which was agreed to develop and implement the previously mentioned complex program development guided missile weapons. This stage is considered by Indian experts as the most important because in this period have been developed and partially implemented plans to create various samples of missile systems, as well as laid the foundation stone of a national missile program, including development of space launch vehicles.
The fourth stage (from 1995 to 2000) - within it, according to Indian experts, the national military-industrial complex and scientific organizations in India was in general to solve the basic problem posed by the military-political leadership in the creation of an "own-missile shield and sword , as well as the development of missile technology that could help Delhi to carry out a national program on space exploration and use space for India's civilian and military customers. And highlights the fact that due to the completion of development within this stage missiles with ballistic missiles families "Prithvi" / "Dhanush and Agni and acceptance of their adopted land forces, air and naval forces of India, the country received reliable and effective strategic deterrent - an important factor in the nuclear standoff with neighboring Pakistan as the most likely opponent, and China - as potential enemy, but, so to speak, less likely.
The fifth stage of the national missile program was initiated in 2001 and continues to this day, despite the closure in 2007-2008, a comprehensive program. Under this phase of Indian experts carried out the development of intercontinental ballistic missiles - more precisely, even a few of its options, and refinement-based ballistic missile boat "Sagarika", which should be the main strike weapons promising nuclear missile submarine of strategic purpose. In addition, during the fifth phase of planned and work began to build missile defenses, they are maintained in a separate subroutine, and the first successful launch of missiles, according to Indian sources, have been conducted, the results are satisfactory.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Ramanaji,
and here is a translation of the 1st one...hope these translations (via google trans.) posted here do not violate any copyrights..if they do, I will withdraw them...
In this country, a developed nuclear industry and nuclear industry, which includes all parts of the nuclear fuel cycle, the armed forces of the republic are equipped with nuclear weapons, construction of underwater nuclear fleet. In short, the Indian atom serves as a strengthening and advancing the national economy and national defense of the state.
Rapid progress of fast reactors
Its first nuclear test conducted under the poetic name of "Smiling Buddha", the Indians have declared peace, but no one had any doubt that India has become the owner of "Weapons of the Apocalypse" (or rather the "Mahabharata"). Officially Delhi reported that almost a quarter of a century later, when in May 1998 was carried out a series of underground nuclear tests, "Shakti-98. Then blew up five charges, including fusion power of 40 kilotons. Now the production capacity allows the country to receive two "average" nuclear weapon a year.
Refusal to Delhi to join the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons, opened for signature in 1968, led to a ban on foreign nuclear technology. The result? India has achieved spectacular success, not only in the military, but also in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy. Thus, according to former director of Los Alamos National Laboratory (USA), Siegfried Hecker, the sanctions, for example, have contributed to the fact that India is among the world leaders in the development of fast reactors - fast neutron reactors. Regime of restrictions on India had to soften - the Americans have started to complain that existing bans hamper their access to promising operating time of the Indians in the nuclear industry.
Today, the Indian nuclear power plants annually produce about three percent of the country's electricity. Of course, this is not enough. However, by 2035 this figure will increase to 10 percent, and by 2050 - up to 25. National strategy for nuclear energy development of the country determines a completely original three-step program, based on the idea of closing the nuclear fuel cycle facilities. When it was created has been taken into account the availability of proven domestic reserves of nuclear raw materials: not too significant uranium - 61,000 tons, but very large (one of the largest in the world) on thorium - 225 thousand tons (and on other data - 360 thousand tons) .
[Nuclear-missile shield of the South Asian giant]
Collage Andrew Sedykh
The first stage of the program of a closed nuclear fuel cycle involves burning at power with the heavy-water reactors PHWR natural uranium-238, followed by separation of irradiated nuclear fuel plutonium-239. Heavy water reactors are preferable to light in terms of plutonium from natural uranium.
Plutonium to be used as nuclear fuel in the second stage - on power with "fast" reactors. And the first in the "fast" reactors will be applied oxide uranium fuel, followed by its replacement metal fuel - first uranplutonievym and then downloading more and thorium.
Bulk loading of thorium in the "fast" power reactors is expected to start in 2050, when the total installed electric power units equipped with them will reach 200 gigawatts. This will begin operating time of the uranium-233, which will become the main fuel for power reactors in the third stage of the program.
For testing of advanced nuclear energy technologies, Indian atomic scientists have created a heavy-water reactor project AHWR, calculated on the use of thorium. Experience of the Indian thorium developments attracted the attention of developed countries.
The task of putting into operation of fast reactors, with their transfer to the metal fuel is relevant from the standpoint of achieving India's energy independence by mid-century. And it will have to buy another 2020 overseas light water reactors with a total installed capacity of 40 gigawatts. They are (in addition to the existing PHWR) will turn out enough plutonium to start up an additional fleet of fast reactors, which will ensure by 2050 the elimination of energy shortages in the country.
Whatever you may say, the program is ambitious and at the same time elegant in engineering-economic plan.
The prototype of the future of nuclear energy for fast neutrons is an Indian demonstration unit PFBR-500 (with an installed electrical capacity of 500 megawatts), which is being built at Kalpakkam. Reactor coolant - liquid sodium. As stated at in Moscow on the international forum Atomexpo-2010 "Member of the Atomic Energy Commission of the Republic Dr. Anil Kakodkar, the" fast "reactors in India are developing rapidly. In the "fast" reactor PFBR-500 will be used plutonium with additional operating time of nuclear fuel by irradiation of thorium.
Further, more powerful, more accurately
Mastering India's nuclear weapons led to the emergence in the management of country's armed forces a special structure - NCA - Nuclear Command Authority (which can be translated as the Administration Nuclear Command). This is not a purely military and military-political body of government. NCA is engaged in nuclear planning in the interests of defense, is responsible for making and implementing decisions to use nuclear weapons to repel foreign aggression. Nuclear Command Authority headed by the Prime Minister of the Republic.
Authority of military operational and technical controls, directly subordinate to the NCA and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the armed forces of India, is formed in 2003, Strategic Forces Command (Strategic Forces Command - SFC). It carries out coordination of nuclear components of the Army and Air Force, represented parts of NE, equipped with ground-based ballistic missiles, and aircraft squadrons of aircraft carriers nuclear bombs. In the foreseeable future, the responsibility of the SFC will also now created naval strategic nuclear forces.
India's nuclear arsenal is designed to "deter" especially Pakistan and China. Currently, the disposal of SFC are its outstanding in the Army two groups of tactical ballistic missiles, SS-150 "Prithvi-1 (missile entered service in 1994 and has a firing range of 150 kilometers), one group of ballistic missile de facto operational -tactical "Agni-1 (first tested in 1989, the firing range - 700-800 miles) and medium-range Agni-2 (in service since 2002, 2000-3500 km).
India has a total of 80-100 missiles Agni-1, 20-25 "Agni-2 and not less than 60" Prithvi-1. All of them are deployed on mobile launchers and Czech trucks Tatra. There is also information on the occurrence of rail launchers for missile Agni-2, which increases the flexibility and survivability of India's nuclear missile forces. However, some of these missiles is designed to equip conventional warheads and nuclear charges in peacetime on the media is not installed and kept in special storage facilities.
Successfully tested a medium-range ballistic missile (5500 km) Agni-3, capable of hitting, such as Beijing and Shanghai. In the development stage and is an intercontinental ballistic missile "Agni-5. A new operational-tactical missiles SS-250 "Prithvi-2 (250-350 miles) Establish ground for Air Force missile units, but may come also in the Army. There is also the naval variant of Prithvi-3 (range - 350 kilometers) class surface ship-to-ground, tried to board a patrol ship "Subhadra" and destroyer "Rajput". True, it is unlikely that he will go into service, in particular, due to the fact that the shooting accuracy "Dhanush" inferior to the Russian-Indian cruise missile "Brahmos".
The Air Force of India as nuclear weapon carriers may use 36 French tactical fighter Mirage 2000N "and 98 Russian Su-30MKI. It is not excluded that, for use in this capacity, trained and combat aircraft of some other types. A total number of nuclear warheads stockpiled by India, is estimated at 100 units. Much power!
Russian "atomariny" rent
Quite exceptional moment in the international military-technical cooperation was the transfer in 1988 to lease the Indian Navy of the Soviet nuclear submarine K-43 Project 670, an eight-armed cruise missiles "Amethyst" class "submarine-to-ship." Underwater nuclear icebreakers of the project, known in the West under the name Charlie-1, in the Soviet Navy intended to fight especially with aircraft carriers and other large ships of the enemy.
Boat K-43 was in the navy of India called "Chakra". Within three years, Indian sailors mastered the wisdom of managing atomic-powered vessels and its services by acquiring a truly unique experience. About a year Chakra held as the "Submarine", patrolled the expanse of the Indian Ocean, provides training missile firing.
Through the compartments of the nuclear submarine Chakra passed during his service career a few Indian admirals. Now they hold top positions in the naval forces of the country, largely determining their development strategies.
The submarine is so pleased that India has requested to extend its lease and was not averse to get another the same nuclear submarines. However, Moscow has responded Delhi failure, and in 1991, "Chakra" was returned to the Pacific Fleet. However, her regained its former entirely unromantic name of K-43, did not have long to serve: in 1992, the boat was expelled from the list of naval ships of Russia and put on funny in Krasheninnikov Bay in Kamchatka.
However, the Russian-Indian cooperation in the field related to nuclear-powered ships, was destined to continue. For naval forces of India is built at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur multipurpose nuclear submarine K-152 (Seal) project 971I. It refers to a series of Russian "atomarin", referred to in the West Akula, and we - "Pike-B. At present, nuclear icebreakers of the "Pike-B in the class are the most committed of being in the ranks of the Russian submarine fleet and also is one of the most low-noise nuclear submarines in the world. So that the Indian Navy are counting on a very valuable acquisition. As reported, the lease period the boat is 10 years. The legacy of the former "Soviet-Indian" nuclear submarine "Seal" get in India called "Chakra".
Can themselves ...
Today, India itself is building submarines with nuclear power plants. And boats are not multipurpose and strategic purpose, intended for application of nuclear-missile strikes against enemy ground targets.
On intent to acquire its own nuclear submarine S-2 in the implementation of the shipbuilding program of ATV (Advanced Technology Vessel - «The vessel advanced technology") The Ministry of Defence of India reported in 1988. Originally it was assumed that it is a multipurpose nuclear submarine, but in reality, it was decided to design a boat, armed with ballistic missiles. Thus marked the beginning of the republic maritime component of its nuclear forces.
Currently, in accordance with the ATV program in the shipyards of Vishakhapatname construct three nuclear missile submarines. Assigned to head the submarine named "Arihant" in Sanskrit means "Fighter of the enemies." In July 2009, held a symbolic ceremony of launching "Arihanta" on water - actually, the boat while the factory was in the dock. Officially the fleet it can be taken in 2011 or later.
Energy hearts "Arihanta is pressurized water reactor, developed jointly by scientists and engineers of the nuclear centers named Homi Baba and Indira Gandhi. For practicing engineering solutions, including in the field of nuclear and radiation safety at Kalpakkam was built and entered service in 2006, a poster version of the ground Boating reactor. Turbosets capacity of 47,000 horsepower for the "Arihanta has supplied Indian firm Walchandnagar Industries, a control system - the company Tata Power SED, a branch of the industrial group Tata Power. Power plant allows "Arihantu" to develop an underwater speed of 24 knots, that is about 44 kilometers per hour.
Surge capacity "Arihanta" are 12 medium-range ballistic missile K-15 "Sagarika". "Sagarika" Hyderabad has developed a multi-state missile center of defense enterprise DRDO - the same that created the missiles Agni and Prithvi. It is assumed that the payload of 1000 kilograms of missile range, "Sagarika" will reach 700 kilometers, and 180-kilogram warhead, it will throw to a distance 1,900 kilometers. With regard to the possibility of nuclear equipment "Sagarika" preferably represents the second indicator.
Of course, on the firing range "Sagarika" significantly inferior to modern sea-based ballistic missiles, Russia, USA, France and China. But I suppose that for India, taking into account the balance of power in South Asia and the Indian Ocean is quite acceptable. The first underwater launch of "Sagarika" with submerged pontoon took place on probation in 2008.
It is not excluded that the nuclear icebreakers such as "Arihant" in the future can get more long-range ballistic missiles KX, a marine version of the land missile Agni-3. In each of the four silos "Arihanta is placed on the three" Sagarika "or a KX.
It is expected that the program will not be limited to three boats such as "Arihant" and will build two other submarines. And that means: the number of strategic nuclear submarines India will rise on a par with Britain, France and China.
and here is a translation of the 1st one...hope these translations (via google trans.) posted here do not violate any copyrights..if they do, I will withdraw them...
In this country, a developed nuclear industry and nuclear industry, which includes all parts of the nuclear fuel cycle, the armed forces of the republic are equipped with nuclear weapons, construction of underwater nuclear fleet. In short, the Indian atom serves as a strengthening and advancing the national economy and national defense of the state.
Rapid progress of fast reactors
Its first nuclear test conducted under the poetic name of "Smiling Buddha", the Indians have declared peace, but no one had any doubt that India has become the owner of "Weapons of the Apocalypse" (or rather the "Mahabharata"). Officially Delhi reported that almost a quarter of a century later, when in May 1998 was carried out a series of underground nuclear tests, "Shakti-98. Then blew up five charges, including fusion power of 40 kilotons. Now the production capacity allows the country to receive two "average" nuclear weapon a year.
Refusal to Delhi to join the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons, opened for signature in 1968, led to a ban on foreign nuclear technology. The result? India has achieved spectacular success, not only in the military, but also in the peaceful uses of nuclear energy. Thus, according to former director of Los Alamos National Laboratory (USA), Siegfried Hecker, the sanctions, for example, have contributed to the fact that India is among the world leaders in the development of fast reactors - fast neutron reactors. Regime of restrictions on India had to soften - the Americans have started to complain that existing bans hamper their access to promising operating time of the Indians in the nuclear industry.
Today, the Indian nuclear power plants annually produce about three percent of the country's electricity. Of course, this is not enough. However, by 2035 this figure will increase to 10 percent, and by 2050 - up to 25. National strategy for nuclear energy development of the country determines a completely original three-step program, based on the idea of closing the nuclear fuel cycle facilities. When it was created has been taken into account the availability of proven domestic reserves of nuclear raw materials: not too significant uranium - 61,000 tons, but very large (one of the largest in the world) on thorium - 225 thousand tons (and on other data - 360 thousand tons) .
[Nuclear-missile shield of the South Asian giant]
Collage Andrew Sedykh
The first stage of the program of a closed nuclear fuel cycle involves burning at power with the heavy-water reactors PHWR natural uranium-238, followed by separation of irradiated nuclear fuel plutonium-239. Heavy water reactors are preferable to light in terms of plutonium from natural uranium.
Plutonium to be used as nuclear fuel in the second stage - on power with "fast" reactors. And the first in the "fast" reactors will be applied oxide uranium fuel, followed by its replacement metal fuel - first uranplutonievym and then downloading more and thorium.
Bulk loading of thorium in the "fast" power reactors is expected to start in 2050, when the total installed electric power units equipped with them will reach 200 gigawatts. This will begin operating time of the uranium-233, which will become the main fuel for power reactors in the third stage of the program.
For testing of advanced nuclear energy technologies, Indian atomic scientists have created a heavy-water reactor project AHWR, calculated on the use of thorium. Experience of the Indian thorium developments attracted the attention of developed countries.
The task of putting into operation of fast reactors, with their transfer to the metal fuel is relevant from the standpoint of achieving India's energy independence by mid-century. And it will have to buy another 2020 overseas light water reactors with a total installed capacity of 40 gigawatts. They are (in addition to the existing PHWR) will turn out enough plutonium to start up an additional fleet of fast reactors, which will ensure by 2050 the elimination of energy shortages in the country.
Whatever you may say, the program is ambitious and at the same time elegant in engineering-economic plan.
The prototype of the future of nuclear energy for fast neutrons is an Indian demonstration unit PFBR-500 (with an installed electrical capacity of 500 megawatts), which is being built at Kalpakkam. Reactor coolant - liquid sodium. As stated at in Moscow on the international forum Atomexpo-2010 "Member of the Atomic Energy Commission of the Republic Dr. Anil Kakodkar, the" fast "reactors in India are developing rapidly. In the "fast" reactor PFBR-500 will be used plutonium with additional operating time of nuclear fuel by irradiation of thorium.
Further, more powerful, more accurately
Mastering India's nuclear weapons led to the emergence in the management of country's armed forces a special structure - NCA - Nuclear Command Authority (which can be translated as the Administration Nuclear Command). This is not a purely military and military-political body of government. NCA is engaged in nuclear planning in the interests of defense, is responsible for making and implementing decisions to use nuclear weapons to repel foreign aggression. Nuclear Command Authority headed by the Prime Minister of the Republic.
Authority of military operational and technical controls, directly subordinate to the NCA and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the armed forces of India, is formed in 2003, Strategic Forces Command (Strategic Forces Command - SFC). It carries out coordination of nuclear components of the Army and Air Force, represented parts of NE, equipped with ground-based ballistic missiles, and aircraft squadrons of aircraft carriers nuclear bombs. In the foreseeable future, the responsibility of the SFC will also now created naval strategic nuclear forces.
India's nuclear arsenal is designed to "deter" especially Pakistan and China. Currently, the disposal of SFC are its outstanding in the Army two groups of tactical ballistic missiles, SS-150 "Prithvi-1 (missile entered service in 1994 and has a firing range of 150 kilometers), one group of ballistic missile de facto operational -tactical "Agni-1 (first tested in 1989, the firing range - 700-800 miles) and medium-range Agni-2 (in service since 2002, 2000-3500 km).
India has a total of 80-100 missiles Agni-1, 20-25 "Agni-2 and not less than 60" Prithvi-1. All of them are deployed on mobile launchers and Czech trucks Tatra. There is also information on the occurrence of rail launchers for missile Agni-2, which increases the flexibility and survivability of India's nuclear missile forces. However, some of these missiles is designed to equip conventional warheads and nuclear charges in peacetime on the media is not installed and kept in special storage facilities.
Successfully tested a medium-range ballistic missile (5500 km) Agni-3, capable of hitting, such as Beijing and Shanghai. In the development stage and is an intercontinental ballistic missile "Agni-5. A new operational-tactical missiles SS-250 "Prithvi-2 (250-350 miles) Establish ground for Air Force missile units, but may come also in the Army. There is also the naval variant of Prithvi-3 (range - 350 kilometers) class surface ship-to-ground, tried to board a patrol ship "Subhadra" and destroyer "Rajput". True, it is unlikely that he will go into service, in particular, due to the fact that the shooting accuracy "Dhanush" inferior to the Russian-Indian cruise missile "Brahmos".
The Air Force of India as nuclear weapon carriers may use 36 French tactical fighter Mirage 2000N "and 98 Russian Su-30MKI. It is not excluded that, for use in this capacity, trained and combat aircraft of some other types. A total number of nuclear warheads stockpiled by India, is estimated at 100 units. Much power!
Russian "atomariny" rent
Quite exceptional moment in the international military-technical cooperation was the transfer in 1988 to lease the Indian Navy of the Soviet nuclear submarine K-43 Project 670, an eight-armed cruise missiles "Amethyst" class "submarine-to-ship." Underwater nuclear icebreakers of the project, known in the West under the name Charlie-1, in the Soviet Navy intended to fight especially with aircraft carriers and other large ships of the enemy.
Boat K-43 was in the navy of India called "Chakra". Within three years, Indian sailors mastered the wisdom of managing atomic-powered vessels and its services by acquiring a truly unique experience. About a year Chakra held as the "Submarine", patrolled the expanse of the Indian Ocean, provides training missile firing.
Through the compartments of the nuclear submarine Chakra passed during his service career a few Indian admirals. Now they hold top positions in the naval forces of the country, largely determining their development strategies.
The submarine is so pleased that India has requested to extend its lease and was not averse to get another the same nuclear submarines. However, Moscow has responded Delhi failure, and in 1991, "Chakra" was returned to the Pacific Fleet. However, her regained its former entirely unromantic name of K-43, did not have long to serve: in 1992, the boat was expelled from the list of naval ships of Russia and put on funny in Krasheninnikov Bay in Kamchatka.
However, the Russian-Indian cooperation in the field related to nuclear-powered ships, was destined to continue. For naval forces of India is built at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur multipurpose nuclear submarine K-152 (Seal) project 971I. It refers to a series of Russian "atomarin", referred to in the West Akula, and we - "Pike-B. At present, nuclear icebreakers of the "Pike-B in the class are the most committed of being in the ranks of the Russian submarine fleet and also is one of the most low-noise nuclear submarines in the world. So that the Indian Navy are counting on a very valuable acquisition. As reported, the lease period the boat is 10 years. The legacy of the former "Soviet-Indian" nuclear submarine "Seal" get in India called "Chakra".
Can themselves ...
Today, India itself is building submarines with nuclear power plants. And boats are not multipurpose and strategic purpose, intended for application of nuclear-missile strikes against enemy ground targets.
On intent to acquire its own nuclear submarine S-2 in the implementation of the shipbuilding program of ATV (Advanced Technology Vessel - «The vessel advanced technology") The Ministry of Defence of India reported in 1988. Originally it was assumed that it is a multipurpose nuclear submarine, but in reality, it was decided to design a boat, armed with ballistic missiles. Thus marked the beginning of the republic maritime component of its nuclear forces.
Currently, in accordance with the ATV program in the shipyards of Vishakhapatname construct three nuclear missile submarines. Assigned to head the submarine named "Arihant" in Sanskrit means "Fighter of the enemies." In July 2009, held a symbolic ceremony of launching "Arihanta" on water - actually, the boat while the factory was in the dock. Officially the fleet it can be taken in 2011 or later.
Energy hearts "Arihanta is pressurized water reactor, developed jointly by scientists and engineers of the nuclear centers named Homi Baba and Indira Gandhi. For practicing engineering solutions, including in the field of nuclear and radiation safety at Kalpakkam was built and entered service in 2006, a poster version of the ground Boating reactor. Turbosets capacity of 47,000 horsepower for the "Arihanta has supplied Indian firm Walchandnagar Industries, a control system - the company Tata Power SED, a branch of the industrial group Tata Power. Power plant allows "Arihantu" to develop an underwater speed of 24 knots, that is about 44 kilometers per hour.
Surge capacity "Arihanta" are 12 medium-range ballistic missile K-15 "Sagarika". "Sagarika" Hyderabad has developed a multi-state missile center of defense enterprise DRDO - the same that created the missiles Agni and Prithvi. It is assumed that the payload of 1000 kilograms of missile range, "Sagarika" will reach 700 kilometers, and 180-kilogram warhead, it will throw to a distance 1,900 kilometers. With regard to the possibility of nuclear equipment "Sagarika" preferably represents the second indicator.
Of course, on the firing range "Sagarika" significantly inferior to modern sea-based ballistic missiles, Russia, USA, France and China. But I suppose that for India, taking into account the balance of power in South Asia and the Indian Ocean is quite acceptable. The first underwater launch of "Sagarika" with submerged pontoon took place on probation in 2008.
It is not excluded that the nuclear icebreakers such as "Arihant" in the future can get more long-range ballistic missiles KX, a marine version of the land missile Agni-3. In each of the four silos "Arihanta is placed on the three" Sagarika "or a KX.
It is expected that the program will not be limited to three boats such as "Arihant" and will build two other submarines. And that means: the number of strategic nuclear submarines India will rise on a par with Britain, France and China.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
The R&S Battalions are dedicated formations and last I checked, there were four of them - one for each RAPID. In fact, you can distinguish personnel from R&S Battalions by a badge they wear on their upper arm (which reads Recce & Support). With number of RAPID formation planned to be increase to seven (one already done, another under conversion and third planned), the number of R&S battalions will also increase by same number.srai wrote: <SNIP> You had done some numbers on the IA's mechanized formations some while ago. Maybe you will have an idea on how many would be required ... if as per above ... hints at 13 NAMICAs making up a R&S battalion x ??? number of mechanized regiments/brigades.
Organization of R&S Batallion is ---> HQ Company*1+3*Recce Companies(each @ 1*ATGM Platoon+1*Mortar Platoon+1*MMG Platoon).
AFAIK, all the initial 4 R&S Battalions are from Brigade of Guards.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
The IAF has keenly watched the testing of air to air missiles from cobra gunships etc..
shooting down AR drones would be one of the things that the IAF LCH and 22 attack helo purchase will be aimed at.
Indeed AR drones are one of the reasons why X2 , X3 et al are the future.
shooting down AR drones would be one of the things that the IAF LCH and 22 attack helo purchase will be aimed at.
Indeed AR drones are one of the reasons why X2 , X3 et al are the future.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Ramdas thanks. Now I want some one to read the originals and edit these to make sense.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Thanks for the info!rohitvats wrote:The R&S Battalions are dedicated formations and last I checked, there were four of them - one for each RAPID. In fact, you can distinguish personnel from R&S Battalions by a badge they wear on their upper arm (which reads Recce & Support). With number of RAPID formation planned to be increase to seven (one already done, another under conversion and third planned), the number of R&S battalions will also increase by same number.srai wrote: <SNIP> You had done some numbers on the IA's mechanized formations some while ago. Maybe you will have an idea on how many would be required ... if as per above ... hints at 13 NAMICAs making up a R&S battalion x ??? number of mechanized regiments/brigades.
Organization of R&S Batallion is ---> HQ Company*1+3*Recce Companies(each @ 1*ATGM Platoon+1*Mortar Platoon+1*MMG Platoon).
AFAIK, all the initial 4 R&S Battalions are from Brigade of Guards.
So looks like ...
* If 1 ATGM Platoon is equivalent to 4 NAMICAs, it would be 12 (+1 reserves) for 3 Recce Companies.
* 91 NAMICAs -> 7 RAPIDS x 13 NAMICAs (in R&S Battalion divided into 3 x Recce Companies)
* 3,101 NAGs -> 7 NAMICAs R&S Battalions x 443 NAGs per 13 NAMICAs (in each R&S Battalion)
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
http://www.forceindia.net/featurereport7.aspx
Games DRDO Plays
False claims on the BMD programme are detrimental to India’s security
By Pravin Sawhney
Tall claims and empty boasts seem to have become the hallmark of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The proclivity of the Director General, DRDO, Dr V.K. Saraswat and his team to exaggerate its achievements would be amusing to discerning people. Unfortunately, this amusement has grave national security implications and Dr Saraswat, a ballistic missile expert with the indigenous Prithvi ballistic missile being his crowning glory, should know this better than most.
As the director general, DRDO, he is leading the nation’s home-grown Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) programme. The claims made by him about the recently tested-fired Dhanush and Prithvi II ballistic missiles on March 11 and the BMD Endo-atmospheric interceptor test on March 6 are exaggerated beyond imagination. These should have been put into perspective by the Indian defence correspondents and experts, not only for domestic but international consumption as well, because the Pakistani establishment, while ignoring DRDO’s claims on Prithvi, utilises the boasts about the BMD to its strategic advantage.
Making use of Saraswat’s chest-thumping, Pakistan is going ahead full throttle to more than match India’s humble BMD technological achievements; if at all, the programme is decades away from fruition. According to US intelligence, while ahead of India in ballistic missiles capabilities since 2001, General Headquarters, Rawalpindi continues to increase its inventory of nuclear weapons’ land vector by citing India’s BMD claims as a destabilising factor. This writer had first-hand experience of this a few months ago. During the alumni meet at the Cooperative Monitoring Centre (Sandia National Laboratory) at Albuquerque, US in October 2010, a former director of Pakistan’s Strategic Plans Division, Brigadier Feroz Khan argued that India’s growing BMD capability had forced Pakistan to build more ballistic missiles.
Given its unbridled inventory, it is a matter of time before the Pakistan Army will alter its war-fighting doctrine to align it with the Chinese People’s Liberation Army thinking. While supplementing air power, the difference between combat aircraft and ballistic missiles will narrow down to tighter control of the latter. This will upset the Indian Air Force combat numbers superiority over the Pakistan Air Force and force the Indian Army to review its operational level pro-active strategy, referred to as the Cold Start doctrine in the media, against the Pakistan Army. Given such implications, the defence minister needs to restrain Saraswat and the DRDO from making irresponsible statements. Apparently after the recent claims on the BMD project, defence minister A.K. Antony has expressed his displeasure to Saraswat.
Prithvi and Dhanush
A brief history and technological limitations of the indigenous Prithvi ballistic missile are in order. The development of surface-to-surface Prithvi ballistic missile was sanctioned by the government in 1983 under the Integrated Guided Missiles Development Programme. As Prithvi was an offshoot of ISRO’s civilian Space Launch Vehicle (SLV), its development commenced without the General Staff Qualitative Requirements (GSQR) — technical requirements given by the user, that is, defence services, to the research organisation — implying that the defence services were neither consulted nor were they interested (ballistic missiles were still unknown to them) in the programme. As happens with most indigenous programmes, Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi personally goaded the army in 1988 to accept Prithvi in order to encourage the indigenous product. Considering the Prime Minister had intervened regarding a weapon system, it was easy for the DRDO to arm-twist the other two services, the navy and the air force to seek the missile with a few minor and not design changes to suit its medium of operations.
Games DRDO Plays
False claims on the BMD programme are detrimental to India’s security
By Pravin Sawhney
Tall claims and empty boasts seem to have become the hallmark of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The proclivity of the Director General, DRDO, Dr V.K. Saraswat and his team to exaggerate its achievements would be amusing to discerning people. Unfortunately, this amusement has grave national security implications and Dr Saraswat, a ballistic missile expert with the indigenous Prithvi ballistic missile being his crowning glory, should know this better than most.
As the director general, DRDO, he is leading the nation’s home-grown Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) programme. The claims made by him about the recently tested-fired Dhanush and Prithvi II ballistic missiles on March 11 and the BMD Endo-atmospheric interceptor test on March 6 are exaggerated beyond imagination. These should have been put into perspective by the Indian defence correspondents and experts, not only for domestic but international consumption as well, because the Pakistani establishment, while ignoring DRDO’s claims on Prithvi, utilises the boasts about the BMD to its strategic advantage.
Making use of Saraswat’s chest-thumping, Pakistan is going ahead full throttle to more than match India’s humble BMD technological achievements; if at all, the programme is decades away from fruition. According to US intelligence, while ahead of India in ballistic missiles capabilities since 2001, General Headquarters, Rawalpindi continues to increase its inventory of nuclear weapons’ land vector by citing India’s BMD claims as a destabilising factor. This writer had first-hand experience of this a few months ago. During the alumni meet at the Cooperative Monitoring Centre (Sandia National Laboratory) at Albuquerque, US in October 2010, a former director of Pakistan’s Strategic Plans Division, Brigadier Feroz Khan argued that India’s growing BMD capability had forced Pakistan to build more ballistic missiles.
Given its unbridled inventory, it is a matter of time before the Pakistan Army will alter its war-fighting doctrine to align it with the Chinese People’s Liberation Army thinking. While supplementing air power, the difference between combat aircraft and ballistic missiles will narrow down to tighter control of the latter. This will upset the Indian Air Force combat numbers superiority over the Pakistan Air Force and force the Indian Army to review its operational level pro-active strategy, referred to as the Cold Start doctrine in the media, against the Pakistan Army. Given such implications, the defence minister needs to restrain Saraswat and the DRDO from making irresponsible statements. Apparently after the recent claims on the BMD project, defence minister A.K. Antony has expressed his displeasure to Saraswat.
Prithvi and Dhanush
A brief history and technological limitations of the indigenous Prithvi ballistic missile are in order. The development of surface-to-surface Prithvi ballistic missile was sanctioned by the government in 1983 under the Integrated Guided Missiles Development Programme. As Prithvi was an offshoot of ISRO’s civilian Space Launch Vehicle (SLV), its development commenced without the General Staff Qualitative Requirements (GSQR) — technical requirements given by the user, that is, defence services, to the research organisation — implying that the defence services were neither consulted nor were they interested (ballistic missiles were still unknown to them) in the programme. As happens with most indigenous programmes, Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi personally goaded the army in 1988 to accept Prithvi in order to encourage the indigenous product. Considering the Prime Minister had intervened regarding a weapon system, it was easy for the DRDO to arm-twist the other two services, the navy and the air force to seek the missile with a few minor and not design changes to suit its medium of operations.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
^^^^
it is BS from force india.
IIRC we do not post articles from that site on BRF
it is BS from force india.
IIRC we do not post articles from that site on BRF
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
I was quite dissapointed reading the article (Force)...hopefully it is not true
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Does he have an ax to grind? Wanst he seconded to DRDO to work on Prithvi! Maybe he got rubbed wrong way.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Per Pravin Sawhney Himself, Pakistan is increasing the number of nukes BECAUSE "a former director of Pakistan’s Strategic Plans Division, Brigadier Feroz Khan argued that India’s growing BMD capability had forced Pakistan to build more ballistic missiles."
For sure someone in pakistan heard this thumping and believed it.
An Indian did/has not, a Pakistani has!!! Go figure.
For sure someone in pakistan heard this thumping and believed it.
An Indian did/has not, a Pakistani has!!! Go figure.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Pravin Sawhney has come out in all his whinery in this one. OK Saraswat was chest thumping and is a big liar. Would Mr Sawhney have been happier is Saraswat had kept his gob shut and not given taqleef to the Paki? Clearly Pakistan has been publicly reported as accelerating its nuke production for years (at least two years) before Saraswat shot his mouth off. If one were to believe Sawhney the cause has come after the effect. Man gets shot and the trigger is pressed later. 
Of course if it is from Force magazine - the caliber of the article is matches perfectly and suits the EQ of the owners - one of whom tries to get hits for his baby by posting rants in the far more popular blog of another defence correspondent.
Of course if it is from Force magazine - the caliber of the article is matches perfectly and suits the EQ of the owners - one of whom tries to get hits for his baby by posting rants in the far more popular blog of another defence correspondent.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
pak will increase missile/nukes and integrate with PLA even if india disbands its entire army and invites zardari as the new mughal to rule delhi.
think of pak as west-china and the model is right. china has grown bigger and consumed pak. pak as a independent entity is vanishing. perhaps some areas in baluchistan and border areas will be jointly owned by US and Breapers but rest of Pak a$$ is owned by china. paki elites see this as their ticket to survival and prosperity for next 50 years. just as being on american dole carried pak for 50 yrs.
being a whore is in their DNA.
think of pak as west-china and the model is right. china has grown bigger and consumed pak. pak as a independent entity is vanishing. perhaps some areas in baluchistan and border areas will be jointly owned by US and Breapers but rest of Pak a$$ is owned by china. paki elites see this as their ticket to survival and prosperity for next 50 years. just as being on american dole carried pak for 50 yrs.
being a whore is in their DNA.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
off topic -
Surprising as it sounds, Myanmar is much less of a military colony of China's than is Pakistan. I think we are beginning to see the denouement ...
Only thing is, the really good pieces of real estate will be kept by outsiders whereas bicchde bhais like us ...
Surprising as it sounds, Myanmar is much less of a military colony of China's than is Pakistan. I think we are beginning to see the denouement ...
Only thing is, the really good pieces of real estate will be kept by outsiders whereas bicchde bhais like us ...
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Myanmarese have their own culture , identity and self-repect. north myanmar and north thailand is culturally/food/ethnic contiguous with parts of our NE.
pakis never had any of these three, except as saif-ul-islam.
pakis never had any of these three, except as saif-ul-islam.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
The 'Saif-ul-Islam' hypothesis is valid. The Pakis I have known have repeated this many a time, expounding on how they are the light and sword of Islam while the Arabs, Turks and others have no respect for Islam anymore.
Their identity is derived not from their roots, but from their hare-brained idea of being the sustainer of Islam.
Their identity is derived not from their roots, but from their hare-brained idea of being the sustainer of Islam.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
If other armor/mechanized formations were to be included to determine max potential requirements for NAMICAs/NAGs, here is what it could look like:srai wrote:Thanks for the info!rohitvats wrote: The R&S Battalions are dedicated formations and last I checked, there were four of them - one for each RAPID. In fact, you can distinguish personnel from R&S Battalions by a badge they wear on their upper arm (which reads Recce & Support). With number of RAPID formation planned to be increase to seven (one already done, another under conversion and third planned), the number of R&S battalions will also increase by same number.
Organization of R&S Batallion is ---> HQ Company*1+3*Recce Companies(each @ 1*ATGM Platoon+1*Mortar Platoon+1*MMG Platoon).
AFAIK, all the initial 4 R&S Battalions are from Brigade of Guards.
So looks like ...
* If 1 ATGM Platoon is equivalent to 4 NAMICAs, it would be 12 (+1 reserves) for 3 Recce Companies.
* 91 NAMICAs -> 7 RAPIDS x 13 NAMICAs (in R&S Battalion divided into 3 x Recce Companies)
* 3,101 NAGs -> 7 NAMICAs R&S Battalions x 443 NAGs per 13 NAMICAs (in each R&S Battalion)
Code: Select all
If given,
* 4 NAMICAs in Recce ATGM Platoon
* 13 NAMICAs in R&S Battalion divided into 3 x Recce Companies (plus 1 NAMICA at HQ Company)
* 443 NAGs per R&S Battalion w/ 13 NAMICAs
* 34 NAGs per NAMICA (including reserves)
* 1 R&S Battalion in a Division (w/ three NAMICA platoons)
* 1 R&S Company in an Independent Brigade (w/ one NAMICA platoon)
IA FORMATIONS NAMICA NAG
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 x RAPIDS' R&S Battalions 91 3,101
3 x Armored Divisions' R&S Battalions 39 1,329
7 x Independent Armored Brigade's R&S Company 28 954
2 x Independent Mechanized Brigade's R&S Company 8 272
-----------------------------------------
TOTALS 166 5,656
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Pravin Sawhney may recall that Pakistan's niuclear weapons programme was not a backlash to the 1974 Smiling Buddha test. It started off in the 60s. Pakistan's military projection is not to defend itself against any Indian aggression but to defeat India.arnabh wrote:Games DRDO Plays
False claims on the BMD programme are detrimental to India’s security
By Pravin Sawhney
. . . because the Pakistani establishment, while ignoring DRDO’s claims on Prithvi, utilises the boasts about the BMD to its strategic advantage.
Making use of Saraswat’s chest-thumping, Pakistan is going ahead full throttle to more than match India’s humble BMD technological achievements;
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Srai,
I agree with your estimates.
I agree with your estimates.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
91 Namicas spread across 7 divs sounds like drop in ocean . its a F&F force multiplier - why cannot our armour divs and large number of indep armoured brigades make use of it ? why cannot be setup paki style anti tank batallions and use these to tackle the threat of chinese heavy armour in tibet?
anything that can help the small and far flung units in tibet frontier sounds good to me.
our BMP units have the outdated and short range Konkurs missile and infantry has the short range Milan and Milan2. not a great deal of teeth imo against modern MBTs that can land accurate shots from 2km and feature updated armour designed much after these cold war ATGMs.
anything that can help the small and far flung units in tibet frontier sounds good to me.
our BMP units have the outdated and short range Konkurs missile and infantry has the short range Milan and Milan2. not a great deal of teeth imo against modern MBTs that can land accurate shots from 2km and feature updated armour designed much after these cold war ATGMs.
Last edited by Singha on 10 Apr 2011 11:57, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Perhaps more impetus is in for LCH with helinas.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
‘U.S. wants to use India in missile shield against Russia, China’
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/%E2%80 ... %E2%80%99/
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/%E2%80 ... %E2%80%99/
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
PS would prefer if we become naked and harmless so that Pakistan live in peace (after killing all Indians)
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
That would be an interesting development , US has been trying to involve India in its BMD program and Indian scientist have witnessed couple of BMD test in US , needless to mention all the Israel assistance that was provided for Indian BMD/AWACS system comes with US approval.paultd wrote:‘U.S. wants to use India in missile shield against Russia, China’
http://iafnews.nuvodev.com/posts/%E2%80 ... %E2%80%99/
There are plus in co-opting with US , it would give Indian better access to Global EW , Intel and specific system like THAAD or even SM-3 in the long run supplementing Indian systems which should exponentially increases India's ability to track and intercept BM from China and Pakistan , there are some minus as well.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
India seeks quick purchase of medium range air defence missiles abroad.
India is set to purchase a large number of medium range surface-to-air missiles (MRSAM) to plug holes in its air defence systems, according to reports emanating from the ministry of defence (MoD). Reports suggest that ahead of the purchase the MoD may have issued a request-for-information (RFI) to global missile manufacturers asking for the supply of such systems to the Indian Air Force (IAF) in a short time-frame.
The RFI, reports suggest, may have been issued this week.
"The defence ministry intends to procure the MRSAM system for the Indian Air Force and the system will be required for air defence of vital areas and points. The MRSAM is required in an early time-frame," a senior IAF officer has been quoted as saying in media reports.
The MRSAM will have to be capable of all-weather, all-terrain, day-and-night operations. The system should be capable of engaging multiple, differing nature of targets in a network-centric operational environment.
The MRSAM would upgrade the IAF's existing inventory of out-dated Soviet-vintage OSA-AK and Pechora air defence missile systems.
MRSAMs normally have a range of 70-90 km to engage targets.
Reports also suggest that this intended purchase will be over and above the 18 MRSAM units that India is already committed to purchase from Israel in a $1.9 billion deal signed in 2009.
India's deal with Israel to develop the Barak-8 MRSAM project is a four year, Rs10,000 crore (about $1.93 billion) deal. The project is intended to provide India's defence services with nine advanced air defence squadrons, each with two MR-SAM firing units.
Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) will be the key partner in the project, along with India's DRDO, and will contribute most of the applicable technology. The co-development programme is patterned after the immensely successful joint Indo-Russian BrahMos supersonic missile project.
The joint Indo-Israeli MRSAM project surpasses the BrahMos project in size, and may be the largest joint defence development project ever undertaken between India and any other country.
As part of the agreement Israeli partners have agreed to transfer all relevant technologies and manufacturing capabilities to India.
The project will involve a 4-year system design and development phase to develop unique system elements, and also produce an initial tranche of the land-based missiles.
India is set to purchase a large number of medium range surface-to-air missiles (MRSAM) to plug holes in its air defence systems, according to reports emanating from the ministry of defence (MoD). Reports suggest that ahead of the purchase the MoD may have issued a request-for-information (RFI) to global missile manufacturers asking for the supply of such systems to the Indian Air Force (IAF) in a short time-frame.
The RFI, reports suggest, may have been issued this week.
"The defence ministry intends to procure the MRSAM system for the Indian Air Force and the system will be required for air defence of vital areas and points. The MRSAM is required in an early time-frame," a senior IAF officer has been quoted as saying in media reports.
The MRSAM will have to be capable of all-weather, all-terrain, day-and-night operations. The system should be capable of engaging multiple, differing nature of targets in a network-centric operational environment.
The MRSAM would upgrade the IAF's existing inventory of out-dated Soviet-vintage OSA-AK and Pechora air defence missile systems.
MRSAMs normally have a range of 70-90 km to engage targets.
Reports also suggest that this intended purchase will be over and above the 18 MRSAM units that India is already committed to purchase from Israel in a $1.9 billion deal signed in 2009.
India's deal with Israel to develop the Barak-8 MRSAM project is a four year, Rs10,000 crore (about $1.93 billion) deal. The project is intended to provide India's defence services with nine advanced air defence squadrons, each with two MR-SAM firing units.
Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) will be the key partner in the project, along with India's DRDO, and will contribute most of the applicable technology. The co-development programme is patterned after the immensely successful joint Indo-Russian BrahMos supersonic missile project.
The joint Indo-Israeli MRSAM project surpasses the BrahMos project in size, and may be the largest joint defence development project ever undertaken between India and any other country.
As part of the agreement Israeli partners have agreed to transfer all relevant technologies and manufacturing capabilities to India.
The project will involve a 4-year system design and development phase to develop unique system elements, and also produce an initial tranche of the land-based missiles.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
^^^ Is there any thing that the IAF does not wants and is not part of their import wish list.
The only MRSAM that can come in quickly is the Aster and Patriot system , the US has been trying to push in PAtriot PAC-3 for some time and AHQ has received many briefings on PAC-3 by Raytheon
The only MRSAM that can come in quickly is the Aster and Patriot system , the US has been trying to push in PAtriot PAC-3 for some time and AHQ has received many briefings on PAC-3 by Raytheon
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
why not just increase the buy of Barak-8 - the logical choice in which we already invested?
is the Aster30 or PAC3 production line facing closure and MMS promised to bail them out ?
is the Aster30 or PAC3 production line facing closure and MMS promised to bail them out ?
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
They are anticipating delays in Barak-8 and likely to be so ,hence the need to get a system quickly.
Considering the IAF has invested in longer range Barak-8 and they have yet to get the Naval Barak-8 off the ground the IAF variant is long way.
May be we could just ask THAAD from our strategic partner
Considering the IAF has invested in longer range Barak-8 and they have yet to get the Naval Barak-8 off the ground the IAF variant is long way.
May be we could just ask THAAD from our strategic partner
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
and the circus maximus goes on....coloseum rings with cheers...lions and peacocks...gladiators and free men....-
Neela
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
-DEL-
Last edited by Neela on 17 Apr 2011 10:38, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
LOL what is vathy doing in missile thread
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels ... %80%99-842
Three more Brazilian Embraer aircraft are arriving in India to be used as AWACS platform as part of a deal signed by India and Brazil. The AWACS system has been developed for the Indian Air Force by Bengaluru-based Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS). “Moreover, I believe that Indian UCAV will be
powered by Kaveri engine one day,” Dr Saraswat added.
“The next test-firing of the ballistic missile interceptor will be conducted in December. This one will be exo-atmospheric. The first one was test-fired on March 6. We are also testing a 30-km range Agni Scramjet-powered cruise missile in attack mode,” he said.
Which is this 30 km range Agni Scramjet powered cruise missile? And what's this attack mode?
Are they going to use Agni as the target missile? And are they also going to test it as a cruise missile? or they are going to test PAD against the Shaurya?
Added later: May be the HSTDV
Three more Brazilian Embraer aircraft are arriving in India to be used as AWACS platform as part of a deal signed by India and Brazil. The AWACS system has been developed for the Indian Air Force by Bengaluru-based Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS). “Moreover, I believe that Indian UCAV will be
powered by Kaveri engine one day,” Dr Saraswat added.
“The next test-firing of the ballistic missile interceptor will be conducted in December. This one will be exo-atmospheric. The first one was test-fired on March 6. We are also testing a 30-km range Agni Scramjet-powered cruise missile in attack mode,” he said.
Which is this 30 km range Agni Scramjet powered cruise missile? And what's this attack mode?
Are they going to use Agni as the target missile? And are they also going to test it as a cruise missile? or they are going to test PAD against the Shaurya?
Added later: May be the HSTDV
Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Armored Divisions or (I) Armored Brigades do not have R&S Battalions or companies. They have Recce Regiment or Recce Squadrons.....the lack of 'Support' from the nomenclature is indicative of the role....so, don't expect NAMICA to feature there. These Recce Regiments will be equipped with mix of MBT/Light tanks and IFV.....the US Cavalry is the gold standard for these kind of forces. The job is to provide screening and recce and not 'support'.
You can also have a look at Formation Reccen Regiments of the British Army -they are equipped with light tanls/AFV.
You can also have a look at Formation Reccen Regiments of the British Army -they are equipped with light tanls/AFV.