2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

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chaanakya
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

An article that appeared in The Hindu.
Lured to work with radiation

Interviews with past and current workers at Fukushima Daiichi and other plants in Japan paint a bleak picture of what happens on the nuclear circuit.

UNTRAINED LABOUR

Mr. Ishizawa, who was finally allowed to leave, is not a nuclear specialist; he is not even an employee of the Tokyo Electric Power Company, the operator of the crippled plant. He is one of thousands of untrained, itinerant, temporary labourers who handle the bulk of the dangerous work at nuclear power plants here and in other countries, lured by the higher wages offered for working with radiation.
Collectively, these contractors were exposed to levels of radiation about 16 times as high as the levels faced by Tokyo Electric employees last year, according to Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, which regulates the industry. These workers remain vital to efforts to contain the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima nuclear plants.
<snip>

DANGEROUS FOR THEM AND SAFETY’

“This is the hidden world of nuclear power,” said Yuko Fujita, a former physics professor at Keio University in Tokyo and a long-time campaigner for improved labour conditions in the nuclear industry. “Wherever there are hazardous conditions, these labourers are told to go. It is dangerous for them, and it is dangerous for nuclear safety.”

In the most dangerous places, current and former workers said, radiation levels would be so high that workers would take turns approaching a valve just to open it, turning it for a few seconds before a supervisor with a stopwatch ordered the job to be handed off to the next person. Similar work would be required at the Fukushima Daiichi plant now, where the three reactors in operation at the time of the earthquake shut down automatically, workers say.

“Your first priority is to avoid pan-ku,” said one current worker at the Fukushima Daini plant, using a Japanese expression based on the English word puncture. Workers use the term to describe their dosimeter, which measures radiation exposure, from reaching the daily cumulative limit of 50 millisieverts. “Once you reach the limit, there is no more work,” said the worker, who did not want to give his name for fear of being fired by his employer.

Takeshi Kawakami, 64, remembers climbing into the spent-fuel pool of the No. 1 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant during an annual maintenance shutdown in the 1980s to scrub the walls clean of radiation with brushes and rags. All workers carried dosimeters set to sound an alarm if exposure levels hit a cumulative dose limit; Mr. Kawakami said he usually did not last 20 minutes.
<snip>

News of workers' mishaps turns up periodically in safety reports: one submitted by Tokyo Electric to the government of Fukushima Prefecture in October 2010 outlines an accident during which a contract worker who had been wiping down a turbine building was exposed to harmful levels of radiation after accidentally using one of the towels on his face. In response, the company said in the report that it would provide special towels for workers to wipe their sweat.

SHIELDED FROM THE MEDIA

Most day workers were evacuated from Fukushima Daiichi after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, which knocked out the plant's power and pushed some of the reactors to the brink of a partial meltdown.


Since then, those who have returned have been strictly shielded from the news media; many of them are housed at a staging ground for workers that is off limits to reporters. But there have been signs that such labourers continue to play a big role at the crippled power plant

<snip>
The union, he said, made 19 demands of plant operators, including urging operators not to forge radiation exposure records and not to force workers to lie to government inspectors about safety procedures. Although more than 180 workers belonged to the union at its peak, its leaders were soon visited by thugs who kicked down their doors and threatened to harm their families, he said.

“They were not allowed to speak up,” Mr. Nakajima said. “Once you enter a nuclear power plant, everything's a secret.”

Last week, conversations among Fukushima Daiichi workers at a smoking area at the evacuees' centre focussed on whether to stay or go back to the plant. Some said construction jobs still seemed safer, if they could be found. “You can see a hole in the ground, but you can't see radiation,” one worker said.

Mr. Ishizawa, the only one who allowed his name to be used, said, “I might go back to a nuclear plant one day, but I'd have to be starving.” In addition to his jobs at Daiichi, he has worked at thermal power plants and on highway construction sites in the region. For now, he said, he will stay away from the nuclear industry.

“I need a job,” he said, “but I need a safe job.”
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/file ... 0316-3.pdf

The status of reactor 1 and 2 of Fukushima-Daiichi as on 16th march.

An explosion caused by hydrogen buildup blew the upper-part of a concrete
building housing.
- Cesium and Iodine were detected, it is believed that a part of nuclear fuel was
damaged and a small amount of radioactive material was leaked into core cooling
water
. However, this was not a so-called “meltdown” which means that whole
reactor core melts down
.
- It is confirmed that the containment vessel had not been damaged. There is no risk
of a hydrogen explosion in the containment vessel because there is no oxygen in it.
There is no high probability of leaking large amount of radioactive material
currently.
Unit 2 TEPCO reported that there was an explosion sound at Unit 2 of
Fukushima I at 6:10 am on March 15. There is a possibility that the suppression
chamber is damaged

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/news_ ... actor.html
[Yukio Edano, Chief Cabinet Secretary]:
"According to reports that I have received, the radiation seems to have come from fuel rods that temporarily melted down and came in contact with the water, used to cool the reactor. The meltdown was not continuous."
Probably partial " meltdown" term emanated from these early reports.
Mostly from TEPCO, METI(NISA) and CCS Edano.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by harbans »

Amitji: The Japanese can actually make a killing of this. A 67 model old BWR withstood a 9.0 quake. The biggest problem is not with it's containment but with the failure of secondary backup systems that got foiled by a giant Tsunami whose predicted hieght one may argue about for years ahead. As far as structural integrity goes so most Nuclear plants in Japan did withstand the impacts of the tectonic shifts. As far as personal choices go, i'd mind as much living downstream of 3 gorges or any major Hydel Project as i would next door to a Nuclear Plant. Both cases i'd rely on scientists and their calculated safety factors. The Greens are anyways warning it's too late to avoid meltdown of Ice caps due to green house gases in some estimates 50 years..? We can't seem to cap demand and go back to Vedic ages in 30 years or 50 or 100. I don't see a plan for that coming up. Interim i only see the cleanest alternative emanating from Nulear power. Primarily for countries like India. Only Nuclear plants will give us the breather, the money to think about about better sources. There's no way out of this. There's a lot to learn from Japan's fiasco here, than the scare mongering about radiation happening all over the World media. Passive cooling systems should make a big headway from this affair. Sanku ji, this is not saying this is not serious. But.. because it is serious, we can and should learn how to make better Nuclear Power plants. Else we go coal and risk icecap melt downs for which one can quote scenarios that would make a core melt down look puny. It's all perspective. JMT/
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by amit »

chaanakya wrote:Well "ruined" does not mean "survived" This from TEPCO Boss only, BOSS.
[/quote]

Oh Channakya, come on what's with you?

You either have serious comprehension problems or are deliberately twisting comments. This is the second time your doing this, the first one was at the nuke thread.

I said the reactors survived the quake (please get it into your head, just the quake) despite it being 7-8 times the design tolerance limit. They went kaput because the auxiliary power generation equipment were knocked out by the tsunami.

My point of survival was specific to the earthquake only. Please go and read my post. If you think it would help read it two or three times to comprehend.

Thank you.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by amit »

harbans wrote:Amitji: The Japanese can actually make a killing of this. A 67 model old BWR withstood a 9.0 quake. The biggest problem is not with it's containment but with the failure of secondary backup systems that got foiled by a giant Tsunami whose predicted hieght one may argue about for years ahead. As far as structural integrity goes so most Nuclear plants in Japan did withstand the impacts of the tectonic shifts. As far as personal choices go, i'd mind as much living downstream of 3 gorges or any major Hydel Project as i would next door to a Nuclear Plant. Both cases i'd rely on scientists and their calculated safety factors. The Greens are anyways warning it's too late to avoid meltdown of Ice caps due to green house gases in some estimates 50 years..? We can't seem to cap demand and go back to Vedic ages in 30 years or 50 or 100. I don't see a plan for that coming up. Interim i only see the cleanest alternative emanating from Nulear power. Primarily for countries like India. Only Nuclear plants will give us the breather, the money to think about about better sources. There's no way out of this. There's a lot to learn from Japan's fiasco here, than the scare mongering about radiation happening all over the World media. Passive cooling systems should make a big headway from this affair. Sanku ji, this is not saying this is not serious. But.. because it is serious, we can and should learn how to make better Nuclear Power plants. Else we go coal and risk icecap melt downs for which one can quote scenarios that would make a core melt down look puny. It's all perspective. JMT/
Harbans ji,

You have neatly encapsulated what most folks here are trying to say. Thank you for that. Your point about hydel power projects is well taken. In the nuclear thread I post information which show that calculation say that any earthquake in excess of 8.5 is likely to break the Tehri dam. If god forbid there's one in that region which is know to be earthquake prone then far people would be killed than any nuclear accident that may occur in India.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by harbans »

Amit ji, thank you for your kind words. Indeed Hydel can be a big killer as so many Greens themselves point out correctly. Coal kills more, Gas even more on a daily basis. There are no immediate clean ready large scale sources of Energy to replace Coal/ Gas/ Oil. Zilch at least for the next 20-30 years barring a major discovery by Scientists themselves. Meanwhile being 'Green' myself i'd prefer a nuclear core meltdown anyday to an Polar ice cap one (IS there anyone who would prefer the latter?). The chances of the latter happening are much brighter without NPPs than with. It's a simple take. Nuclear energy is not perfect i agree, but what better bet than that to keep our growth on, and help us get money to not only defend ourselves but also make more inroads into safer than Nuclear/ Oil/Gas/ Coal sources of Energy. Maybe we crack the Throium cycle by 2030. That may help. 20 years what chances are there we learn lessons from Japan and avoid a repeat of this problem? This plant after all is of 67 vintage. This debate is not rational if it does not consider the vintage in a sense. What are the chances say a 2000 built NPP at Fukushima weathering this impact? That would be something i could learn from, maybe others too. Would a latter day built NPP withstand this better? If so, in the larger perspective i think NPP's have a brighter future in the next 30 years. Rationally that is.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

amit wrote:
chaanakya wrote:Well "ruined" does not mean "survived" This from TEPCO Boss only, BOSS.
Oh Channakya, come on what's with you?

You either have serious comprehension problems or are deliberately twisting comments. This is the second time your doing this, the first one was at the nuke thread.

I said the reactors survived the quake (please get it into your head, just the quake) despite it being 7-8 times the design tolerance limit. They went kaput because the auxiliary power generation equipment were knocked out by the tsunami.

My point of survival was specific to the earthquake only. Please go and read my post. If you think it would help read it two or three times to comprehend.

Thank you.
You might talk of quake only but that is clearly not the case with Fukushima. Its your choice not mine. Thank you.

A reactor core, which requires active cooling, requires active power all the time. It could be lost due to a number of factors not in the least Tsunami or quake. You can talk of only quake and that's fine.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

Long-term health risk may widen evac zone

The government will expand the evacuation zone around the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant because concerns are rising about the cumulative, long-term risk of radiation exposure, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said Monday.

Under the nuclear disaster law, residents in certain municipalities outside the current 20-km evacuation zone will be "instructed" to leave in around a month. The areas include Katsurao, Namie, Iitate and part of Kawamata and Minamisoma, all in Fukushima Prefecture.

Those in the area "do not need to evacuate immediately" but will be instructed to leave in a month, given rising concerns over long-term radiation exposure, Edano said.

As for the 20- to 30-km area where residents have been told to stay indoors, Edano said it would be newly designated as an "emergency evacuation preparation zone," which means residents might be asked to get out.

Currently, only residents within 20-km from the crippled nuclear plant have been ordered to evacuate. Those in the 20- to 30-km area have been asked to stay indoors.

The move is being made despite a pronouncement by the government that the risk of contamination from high-level radiation leaks at the plant is now much lower than it was at the start of the crisis.


"The risk that the situation will worsen and that there would be new massive emissions of radioactive materials is becoming considerably lower," Edano said at a news conference earlier Monday.


"Even if there are no new emissions of radioactive substances, radiation may come out from soil . . . and this could affect health if one stays in the affected area for a long time," Edano said.,


After the March 11 earthquake and tsunami crippled the power station, the government directed people within 20 km to evacuate and those in the 20- to 30-km ring to stay indoors or "voluntarily leave" because it would be difficult to stay because of the lack of goods and services.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

Shimane gov. won't OK operations of 2 nuke reactors without safety steps
MATSUE, Japan, April 11, Kyodo

It seems Civic authorities are getting jittery in the wake of Fukushima. Clearly analysis of safety review will have to be made faster if Nuclear Plants ( currently closed or completing construction) to start functioning. As of now about 11 plants are closed, mostly from the affected areas.
Shimane Gov. Zembee Mizoguchi said Monday he will not approve the operations of two reactors at the Shimane nuclear power plant unless the central government comes up with new safety measures following the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant crippled by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

''The existing (safety) standards will not be adequate,'' Mizoguchi said concerning whether he would authorize the Shimane plant's operator Chugoku Electric Power Co. to run the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors.

''Neither the government nor we would be able to say it is okay to operate (the reactors) unless it is confirmed that they would be able to handle (accidents) in light of the latest findings'' based on the troubles at the plant in Fukushima Prefecture, he told a news conference.

Operations of the No. 1 reactor at the Shimane plant in Matsue have been suspended after the utility's failure to properly check the safety of equipment and components at the plant came to light in March last year.

Although the prefectural government had expressed readiness to approve the restart of the reactor's operations following the national government's approval in February, Mizoguchi said Monday, ''The situation has changed.''

The Hiroshima-based utility had planned to start operating the No. 3 reactor, now under construction, in March next year.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

Radiation levels exceed permissible limit
The science ministry says the amount of radiation accumulated over about half a month in some areas of Fukushima Prefecture has exceeded the permissible level for a whole year.

Since March 23rd, the ministry has been measuring radiation levels in 15 locations more than 20 kilometers away from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

At one location, in Namie Town about 30 kilometers northwest of the plant, 14,480 microsieverts of radiation had accumulated over the 17-day period to Sunday.
8,440 microsieverts of radiation were observed in Iitate Village.

In another location in Namie, the amount reached 6,430 microsieverts.

People would be exposed to this accumulated amount of radiation if they had stayed outdoors throughout the entire period.


The level at one location was more than 14 times the 1,000 microsieverts that the International Commission on Radiological Protection recommends as the long-term annual reference level for people.

The recommended level of 1,000 microsieverts excludes radiation from the natural environment and medical devices.

Hiroshima University Professor Kiyoshi Shizuma says most of the radiation observed in Fukushima is believed to be radioactive cesium that has fallen to the ground.

Shizuma advises residents to wear masks to avoid inhaling radioactive substances mixed with dust.

He points to the need to take samples both from the air and the ground for detailed analyses in order to assess any possible impact on human health.
Monday, April 11, 2011 21:20 +0900 (JST)
looks like earlier madarssa math was not far off the mark. If any, Radiation in many areas appear to be higher and at dangerous level. This comes from Science Ministry who would be crawling with scientist types.Please also note that this talks of "Rate per hour" and "Annual" reference level.These are the words which caused so much angst here.

Disclaimer: I am not sure if Science Ministry or any other expert from the area are to be trusted at all or for that matter any expert in the field. Take these figures and come to your own conclusion.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

Water radiation levels down

This indicates that dilution of radioactive material in sea water has taken place. This was in the wake of discharge of low radioactive contaminated water in the sea to make room for highly contaminated water for storage.
The operator of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says radiation levels in the seawater near the plant have dropped.

Tokyo Electric Power Company said it detected 200 becquerels of radioactive iodine-131 per cubic centimeter in seawater samples taken around the water intake of the No.2 reactor on Sunday.

The figure is 5,000 times the maximum allowed under government standards, but much lower than the 7.5 million times the standard that was detected at the same spot on April 2nd.


On Wednesday of last week, the company stopped a leak of radioactive water from a concrete pit outside the No.2 reactor after pouring a hardening agent into a layer of gravel around the pit.

In another effort to contain the nuclear trouble at the plant, the utility released 1,320 tons of relatively low-level radioactive water from the plant into the Pacific Ocean outside reactors No.5 and 6 between Monday and Saturday of last week.

TEPCO on Sunday detected 11 becquerels of iodine-131 per cubic centimeter in seawater samples collected 30 meters from outlets in the northern part of the complex.
The figure was 280 times the government standard.

Measurements at the same spot were 2,800 times the standard last Thursday
.
Monday, April 11, 2011 21:55 +0900 (JST)
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by kmkraoind »

Japan earthquake: police handed tens of millions of yen from devastated area

Wow, I cannot be silent without appreciating civil responsibility and integrity of Japanese. A hundred salutes to them.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

Just for reference , There are many excellent schematic diagrams are already posted. This one come from NISA, METI situation report by which they tried to explain what could have happened. and why they said some reactor material may have leaked into cooling water.


Image



Image



Image
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

Status or Reactors in Schematic Diagram from NISA METI

Status as on 7th April
Reactor 1 1971 460 MWe

Image

Reactor 2 1974 784 MWe

Image

Reactor 3 1976 784 MWe

Image

Reactor 4 1978 784 MWe

Image

Reactor 5 1978 784 MWe

Image

Reactor 6 1979 1100 MWe

Image
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

sanku wrote:BTW every one is calling it a partial meltdown now, a beautiful phrase, just like almost virgin.
I am sure, sir, your mother would be proud of that "beautiful" phrase, but it does not do any thing for your reputation, as you know you has peddled, countless times, demonstrably false statements like:
.........
[/quote]

AmberG, Was that really necessary? Why bring in parents? You know in our culture we dont do that.

ramana
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Mort Walker »

chaanakya wrote:Radiation levels exceed permissible limit
The science ministry says the amount of radiation accumulated over about half a month in some areas of Fukushima Prefecture has exceeded the permissible level for a whole year.

Since March 23rd, the ministry has been measuring radiation levels in 15 locations more than 20 kilometers away from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

At one location, in Namie Town about 30 kilometers northwest of the plant, 14,480 microsieverts of radiation had accumulated over the 17-day period to Sunday.
8,440 microsieverts of radiation were observed in Iitate Village.

In another location in Namie, the amount reached 6,430 microsieverts.

People would be exposed to this accumulated amount of radiation if they had stayed outdoors throughout the entire period.


The level at one location was more than 14 times the 1,000 microsieverts that the International Commission on Radiological Protection recommends as the long-term annual reference level for people.

The recommended level of 1,000 microsieverts excludes radiation from the natural environment and medical devices.

Hiroshima University Professor Kiyoshi Shizuma says most of the radiation observed in Fukushima is believed to be radioactive cesium that has fallen to the ground.

Shizuma advises residents to wear masks to avoid inhaling radioactive substances mixed with dust.

He points to the need to take samples both from the air and the ground for detailed analyses in order to assess any possible impact on human health.
Monday, April 11, 2011 21:20 +0900 (JST)
looks like earlier madarssa math was not far off the mark. If any, Radiation in many areas appear to be higher and at dangerous level. This comes from Science Ministry who would be crawling with scientist types.Please also note that this talks of "Rate per hour" and "Annual" reference level.These are the words which caused so much angst here.

Disclaimer: I am not sure if Science Ministry or any other expert from the area are to be trusted at all or for that matter any expert in the field. Take these figures and come to your own conclusion.
More madrassa math for you. Do you understand the difference between milli and micro? Yes, depending on wind there will be locations with 14.5 mSv exposure. The key is to stay within 20 mSv or 20,000 microsieverts from madrassa math.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by chaanakya »

Mort Walker wrote: More madrassa math for you. Do you understand the difference between milli and micro? Yes, depending on wind there will be locations with 14.5 mSv exposure. The key is to stay within 20 mSv or 20,000 microsieverts from madrassa math.

I suppose that was already covered, Sv mSv and muSv or what is called micro. Point was not the difference in milli and micro. That is why that sentence was in red. 1mSv is legal limit over and above background radiation and medical exposure. While Japan has just increased limit for emergency worker to 250mSV.
Don't know where you got your 20mSv limit btw. but never mind.Radiation is good onlee.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Bade »

Slide & above is quite illustrative on the radiation dose around the plant with time.

http://www.slideshare.net/energy/radiat ... m=ss_embed

from the DOE site http://blog.energy.gov/content/situation-japan/

For unit conversion and quick reference.
http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/south ... rsion.html

eg. 1rem = 10 milliSv
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/jap ... =rss_world

Japan, in wake of nuclear crisis, orders summer energy cutbacks
TOKYO – The Japanese government ordered businesses and residents last week to cut their energy use by as much as 25 percent this summer to avoid power outages after the crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, a decision lawmakers acknowledged could have economic ramifications.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Mort Walker »

chaanakya wrote:
Mort Walker wrote: More madrassa math for you. Do you understand the difference between milli and micro? Yes, depending on wind there will be locations with 14.5 mSv exposure. The key is to stay within 20 mSv or 20,000 microsieverts from madrassa math.

I suppose that was already covered, Sv mSv and muSv or what is called micro. Point was not the difference in milli and micro. That is why that sentence was in red. 1mSv is legal limit over and above background radiation and medical exposure. While Japan has just increased limit for emergency worker to 250mSV.
Don't know where you got your 20mSv limit btw. but never mind.Radiation is good onlee.
The 20 mSv was what what recommended to change to from the 1 mSv for the general public. NPP workers, in non-emergency situations, are suggested to an annual exposure of no more than 20 mSv. The 14,480 microSv (14.5 mSv) measured is high, but not life threatening.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

chaanakya wrote: Don't know where you got your 20mSv limit btw.
From a news report I posted actually, Japan had earlier in week arbitrarily decided that 20 mSv was the new 1 mSv.

That is the safe limit for civilians not voluntary engaged in activities that expose them to radiation, was 1 mSv, but changed for this once was okay (dont ask me why no reasons were given)

They had decided no evacuation was necessary till 20 mSv of annual exposure. However clearly the radiation has gone up further, given that they are being forced to expand the evacuation range despite also bumping up the permissible radiation level.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

Ramana wrote: AmberG, Was that really necessary? .... You know in our culture we dont do that.

ramana
Ramamaji - In our culture, it is not necessary to use "beautiful" phrase like your esteemed postor Sanku did
Sanku wrote: ..BTW every one is calling it a partial meltdown now, a beautiful phrase, just like almost virgin
At least not in a respectable forum like brf, unless you want to drive away others by creating hostile environment.

Folks: The part Ramana ji chose to edit out from my post (without even mentioning it) was:

1. My claim that countless statements by Sanku here are demonstrably false: I gave one example:
sanku wrote: 17 in serious condition in hospital
(Again with exact quotes)

And then said time has come, and quoted Sanku again,
Sanku wrote:I would personally be very ashamed of myself if so many of my half truths and comprehension issues were exposed publicly but then I guess it is also a matter of perspective.
Regards.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

http://www.asahi.com/national/update/04 ... 10626.html

Nuclear power plant workers, the exposure to the body "know" test calls (1 / 2 pages)

Translate the page from Japanese and read; the upshot is, NO ONE including the workers know the amount of radiation they were exposed to since the facilities were not functional after the quake.

Few dosimeters, non working scrub showers, non existing post work measurements etc.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

Marten wrote:I beg you gents to resolve your issues or completely ignore each other, and not allow these disagreements to derail your contributions on this thread.
Sir, which two gent? I hope not me, because I have not replied (as per Ramana's ask) to some posters for over three weeks now.

Mods please Sirs, you are giving a little too long a rope to some here.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

Marten - Here is what some one wrote a long time ago. I think Mods should really pay attention.
GuruPrabhu wrote:
Sanku wrote: Madarassa math is your specialty; ignorance coupled with blatant foul mouthed hate to India and Indians which you proudly wear on your sleeve.
More unsubstantiated attacks. Are all Babus equally stupid?

Mods, what should I do with this individual who just attacks personally all the time? Does he have some special privilege? Where does he get this thing about "anti-India yada yada".

It is just a cheap babu trick to paint any opponent as "anti-India" when out of arguments. Please, I implore the Mods to rein in this monster.

It is not fair to me to control myself while this joker runs loose. I was enjoying my debate with others, but this idiot butted in enough to ensure that I reply to him. And, now, some Mod will say that I am "warned". I am preserving this thread so the evidence is there about how the escalation happened.

Regards.
Last edited by Amber G. on 12 Apr 2011 00:09, edited 1 time in total.
Amber G.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

And another use of colorful phrase..
Sanku wrote: Despite your naked hate for all things Indian, and supremacy of all things international (US) the above is yet another statement which is pulled out of your musharraf.

Also goes to show your naked cavalier attitude towards Indian lives.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

It would be really nice if people concentrated on the topic of thread rather than other posters and did not take sentences made by them out of context.

=====================

Meanwhile
1) I told you so!!
2) What took them so long?

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/84721.html

Japan may raise nuke accident severity level to highest 7 from 5
The Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan released a preliminary calculation Monday saying that the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant had been releasing up to 10,000 terabecquerels of radioactive materials per hour at some point after a massive quake and tsunami hit northeastern Japan on March 11.

The disclosure prompted the government to consider raising the accident's severity level to 7, the worst on an international scale, from the current 5, government sources said. The level 7 on the International Nuclear Event Scale has only been applied to the 1986 Chernobyl catastrophe.

The current provisional evaluation of 5 is at the same level as the Three Mile Island accident in the United States in 1979.

According to an evaluation by the INES, level 7 accidents correspond with a release into the external environment radioactive materials equal to more than tens of thousands terabecquerels of radioactive iodine 131. One terabecquerel equals 1 trillion becquerels.

....................


Within a 20-km exclusion zone set by the government, the amount varied from under 1 millisieverts to 100 millisieverts or more, and in the 20-30 km radius ring where residents are asked to stay indoors, it came to under 50 millisieverts.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

Meanwhile - :-o This is of course an old news :-o Two weeks ago, they have already declared it ...
with 400% confidence..

Fukushima crisis already equates to three INES 7 incidents.
(One can't even make such things up :rotfl: )
Greenpeace study ranks Fukushima as Chernobyl Level 7 incident
:eek: Austrian governments Central Institute for Meteorology and Geodynamics :eek: (ZAMG) found that the total amount of radionuclides iodine-131 and caesium-137 released between March 11 and March 23 has been so high that the Fukushima crisis already equates to three INES 7 incidents.
and of course:
It’s crucial that Japan’s authorities, the nuclear industry and the IAEA immediately stop their downplaying of the threat of radioactive contamination, and instead provide clear and honest communication about the risks to public health in order to protect people”, said Greenpeace energy campaigner Dr Rianne Teule.
Makes Markey's 100,000,000 killed in Cashmere reports sane...

The news report was 2 weeks ago ..What took them so long to post here in brf? :roll:
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Amber G. wrote:And another use of colorful phrase..
Sanku wrote: Despite your naked hate for all things Indian, and supremacy of all things international (US) the above is yet another statement which is pulled out of your musharraf.

Also goes to show your naked cavalier attitude towards Indian lives.
I recall this. It is not out of context at all. Sanku gets away with arbitrary gutter level comments.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

It would be good to compare the total amount of radioactive isotopes which were released in Chernobyl and Fukushima, if that data is available (when it becomes available)

We may end up needing to revise the scale from 7 onwards and higher to account for scales of very big disasters. After all not all big disasters are same and there is no particular sense in stopping at 7.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by putnanja »

Amber G. wrote:Meanwhile - :-o This is of course an old news :-o Two weeks ago, they have already declared it ...
with 400% confidence..

Fukushima crisis already equates to three INES 7 incidents.
(One can't even make such things up :rotfl: )
Greenpeace study ranks Fukushima as Chernobyl Level 7 incident
...
Makes Markey's 100,000,000 killed in Cashmere reports sane...
Are you equating the Nuclear Safety commission of Japan to the GreenPeace study? The link by Kyodo news agency talks about a japanese govt panel, not some green peace panel.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ No I am not. Just mentioning another report as for some it did not take that long to declare what they wanted it to declare. besides I gave the link so as not to mislead.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by putnanja »

Isn't adding that greenpeace link just a distraction? And immediately following sanku's post, the link and the quote appears as though that the nuclear safety commision's findings too are similar to the one that you posted.

And it may be a like a broken clock being right twice a day, but whatever green peace said appears to be becoming true?? Why score self-goals?
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

Japan thanks India for ‘timely aid'
Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan has thanked the government and people of India “for doing so much to help us” following the March 11 tsunami and earthquake.

Taking note of the dispatch of 25,000 blankets, 13,000 bottles of mineral water and 10 tonnes of high-calorie biscuits, Mr. Kan, in a letter to the Centre, noted that this help was timely and appreciated by the evacuees because the affected areas were going through very cold weather conditions.

In addition, New Delhi had sent a 46-member National Disaster Management Authority Response Force.Mr. Kan also appreciated the “thoughtful gestures” such as reading out of condolence messages in both Houses of Parliament and the personal messages by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and assured that these gestures “will never be forgotten by the people of Japan.”

A month after the tsunami-earthquake, over 14,000 remain unaccounted for and about 1,50,000 are forced to take shelter as evacuees.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by arnab »

Sanku wrote: In real terms it means (note reports for all these have been posted, many by Japanese media too)
--- Ground water and ground contamination for at least 20, and MOST probably 40-80 km radius to make it long term evacuation
--- Long term ban on fishing around Fukushima (20+ km)
--- Long term impact on Fisheries in Japan as other countries band/screen imports.
--- Long term impact on population in 20-80 Km range around Fukushima who should have been evacuated (as per IAEA and GoTUS if you please) but were not.
Proof please (of the 40 -80 km radius of ground water contamination)? and define 'long-term'. I don't think you know what ground water means (hint: it is not water lying on the ground).
Fukishima prefecture has already started selling milk. Please read the radiation updates rather than telling us what politicians will do based on the lowest common denorminator of intellect, as a sign of 'proof' :)

What long-term impact on population? Read George Monibot's expose on the lies told by the nuke fear mongers.

Just for context:
In Vienna, the head of a U.N. scientific body said the Fukushima accident is not expected to have any serious impact on people's health, based on the information available now.

Wolfgang Weiss, chairman of the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR), also said the Fukushima disaster was less dramatic than Chernobyl in 1986 but "much more serious" than Three Mile Island in 1979.

Asked what health consequences he expected from Fukushima, he said: "From what I know now, nothing, because levels are so low."
"We have seen traces of iodine in the air all over the world now but they are much, much, much lower than traces we have seen at similar distances after Chernobyl," Weiss added.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/ ... SS20110406
Last edited by arnab on 12 Apr 2011 07:45, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Muppalla »

Per Reuters flash:
Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant operator says fighting fire at No.4 reactor in the Daiichi complex
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

^^Fire seen at Fukushima nuclear plant
Reuters) - A fire broke out at Japan's crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, operator Tokyo Electric and Power (TEPCO) said on Tuesday, although flames and smoke were no longer visible.

A worker saw fire at a building near the No.4 reactor at around 6:38 a.m. (5:38 a.m. EST) and a fire fighting unit of the Self Defense Forces was sent to fight the blaze, a TEPCO spokesman said.

"Flames and smoke are no longer visible but we are awaiting further details regarding whether the fire has been extinguished completely," he said.

Japan has been battling to bring under control the plant damaged severely by last month's devastating earthquake and tsunam
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by arnab »

If we had an equivalent IC(oal)ES scale, I think we have been operating at over 10 for a while now :)
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by amit »

chaanakya wrote:You might talk of quake only but that is clearly not the case with Fukushima. Its your choice not mine. Thank you.
Thank you too.

I can recognise a particular skiing technique when I see one! :D
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