India Nuclear News And Discussion

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Purush
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Purush »

joshvajohn wrote:Are Indian nuclear weapons facilities safe?
http://www.rediff.com/news/column/are-i ... 110412.htm
And thus it begins.

In the next few months, expect a lifafa campaign in the Indian media orchestrated by the west/prc to question the safety of our nuclear facilities especially 'weapons' related that are not under international 'safeguards'.

Spread FUD about the safety of 'obsolete', 'dilapidated' and 'dangerous' 'turrd world' SDRE weapons facilities/warheads that pose an existentialist threat to the 'peace loving peoples' of S. Asia. Bribe 'eminent personalities', 'social workers' and some 'leaders' of political parties to introduce ideas of 'complete unilateral Indian nuclear disarmament' in the interests of peace, into the public debate etc etc.

Looks like our greenpiss brigade will have its wish.
Stupid clowns.
Last edited by Purush on 13 Apr 2011 14:46, edited 2 times in total.
Sanku
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanku »

Transparency is critical in GoI functioning and will continue to dominate as a topic of Public affairs. Esp now with Anna Hazare's movement.

Trying the "hide hide" track is not going to work any longer, the only solution is to work with people of the country to provide structures that the trust between GoI and the Indian public remains.

That trust can be utilized to maintain secrecy, with the permission of Indian populace, for the few critical areas where secrecy is indeed needed.

We certainly do not need a TEPCO+Japanese Govt type of crony capitalism based secrecy.

Those trying for total secrecy are on wrong side of history and will end up as dinosaurs did.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanku »

Purush wrote:And thus it begins.
Yes, "trust us" is not a magic wand that GoI can wave any longer for better or for worse, its gone. A good GoI will evolve to the next step.

This GoI however will dig a bigger hole.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by somnath »

amit wrote: And why is this so when the govt will be the sole entity which will run the nuclear power plants in India? You want one branch of the govt to look after what another branch is doing? If the shit hit the ceiling you want one arm of the Govt to sit in judgment to determine how another branch of the govt screwed up?

Isn't that similar to your very famous quote about Tepco sitting in judgement over Tepco?
An imagined conversation of our born again greens/original uber nationalists...

Anti-imperialists: Fukushima, wow - 100000000000000 deaths - all LWRs bad - we shouldnt buy from the satan...

NPA: Yes, yes, I told you so! Good job - spread the awareness in India how bad Fukushima is, and how 10000000000000000 deaths are expected...

NPA: And yes, BTW, what about your PHWRS? not even under "safeguards"! Horror, must be death traps for 100000000000000000000 lives..

A/I: Umm, ah, yes, but our PHWRs are safe through divine intervention...

But NPAs are largely athiests (or believers of immaculate conception, so hindu divinity does not gell with them)...

A/I: Ah ok, we should do a safety audit just to "show" them, concurrently, we will shut down all proposed projects...Serves our purpose of not buying from satan..

NPA: yes, while you do that, what about your weapons facilities? Those nasty little things you have in Tarapur, Kalpakkam and that small place with a funny name called "Iyer village"? They are not even under your own (poodle) regulator, AERB!? Horror^100000000000000.....Shut them down, now...
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by abhishek_sharma »

This is for biofuels, but it is obvious that these principles should be followed by all energy sectors.

Ethical Framework for Biofuels

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early ... 4.full.pdf
1. Biofuels development should not be at the expense of people’s essential rights

2. Biofuels should be environmentally sustainable.

3. Biofuels should contribute to net reduction of total GHG emissions and not exacerbate global climate change.

4. Biofuels should recognize the rights of people to just reward.

5. Costs and benefits of biofuels should be distributed in an equitable way.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by amit »

Sanku wrote:Transparency is critical in GoI functioning and will continue to dominate as a topic of Public affairs. Esp now with Anna Hazare's movement.

Trying the "hide hide" track is not going to work any longer, the only solution is to work with people of the country to provide structures that the trust between GoI and the Indian public remains.

That trust can be utilized to maintain secrecy, with the permission of Indian populace, for the few critical areas where secrecy is indeed needed.

We certainly do not need a TEPCO+Japanese Govt type of crony capitalism based secrecy.

Those trying for total secrecy are on wrong side of history and will end up as dinosaurs did.
Nice political speech but how do you propose to bring transparency to our nuclear weapons programme, can you specify? By doing a Anna Hazare type of hunger strike so that they are forced to tell you things like whether the thermonuke was a fizzile, partial burn (very similar to your almost V comment), or was a regular pathaka?

And what's this nonsense about maintaining secrecy with permission of the Indian populace? Is the present secrecy about our nuclear weapons programme, maintained by every govt, irrespective of the political party in power, maintained without the permission of the Indian populace?

Do note we are talking about our nuclear weapons programme here. So when you make a comment like this:
That trust can be utilized to maintain secrecy, with the permission of Indian populace, for the few critical areas where secrecy is indeed needed.
Normal people will read it as you think the weapons programme does not fall in this critical area.

Bringing in Anna Hazare's name in this discussion on nuclear weapons is either a thoughtless Strawman or a part of a very intelligent maneuver to take the discussion towards a new angle.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by somnath »

abhishek_sharma wrote:This is for biofuels, but it is obvious that these principles should be followed by all energy sectors.

Ethical Framework for Biofuels

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early ... 4.full.pdf
1. Biofuels development should not be at the expense of people’s essential rights

2. Biofuels should be environmentally sustainable.

3. Biofuels should contribute to net reduction of total GHG emissions and not exacerbate global climate change.

4. Biofuels should recognize the rights of people to just reward.

5. Costs and benefits of biofuels should be distributed in an equitable way.
What a holy preamble..Biofuels contradict almost EVERY SINGLE of the postulates in all ways imaginable :rotfl:
amit
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by amit »

abhishek_sharma wrote:This is for biofuels, but it is obvious that these principles should be followed by all energy sectors.
Agree with you 400 per cent on this. And I'm sure you also include fossil fuels like coal in this as far more people have died worldwide from toxins released by coal fired power plants than from nuclear radiation.
amit
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by amit »

somnath wrote:
amit wrote: And why is this so when the govt will be the sole entity which will run the nuclear power plants in India? You want one branch of the govt to look after what another branch is doing? If the shit hit the ceiling you want one arm of the Govt to sit in judgment to determine how another branch of the govt screwed up?

Isn't that similar to your very famous quote about Tepco sitting in judgement over Tepco?
An imagined conversation of our born again greens/original uber nationalists...

Anti-imperialists: Fukushima, wow - 100000000000000 deaths - all LWRs bad - we shouldnt buy from the satan...

NPA: Yes, yes, I told you so! Good job - spread the awareness in India how bad Fukushima is, and how 10000000000000000 deaths are expected...

NPA: And yes, BTW, what about your PHWRS? not even under "safeguards"! Horror, must be death traps for 100000000000000000000 lives..

A/I: Umm, ah, yes, but our PHWRs are safe through divine intervention...

But NPAs are largely athiests (or believers of immaculate conception, so hindu divinity does not gell with them)...

A/I: Ah ok, we should do a safety audit just to "show" them, concurrently, we will shut down all proposed projects...Serves our purpose of not buying from satan..

NPA: yes, while you do that, what about your weapons facilities? Those nasty little things you have in Tarapur, Kalpakkam and that small place with a funny name called "Iyer village"? They are not even under your own (poodle) regulator, AERB!? Horror^100000000000000.....Shut them down, now...
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanku »

amit, I notice that you continue posting massively random interpretation of what I have said. Kindly note that those are for me to read, I scan your posts only briefly to check if a patently wrong data point has been posted (once again) -- other than that, I do not read the posts at all, since you consistently and totally write "aam" where I have written "imli"

Just to keep the record straight -- a request to all posters, anything and everything Amit says about my posts should be please completely discarded.

My posts should be read themselves without the need for "vishesh tippani" which seems to be following each of them.
amit
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by amit »

Purush wrote:
joshvajohn wrote:Are Indian nuclear weapons facilities safe?
http://www.rediff.com/news/column/are-i ... 110412.htm
And thus it begins.

In the next few months, expect a lifafa campaign in the Indian media orchestrated by the west/prc to question the safety of our nuclear facilities especially 'weapons' related that are not under international 'safeguards'.

Spread FUD about the safety of 'obsolete', 'dilapidated' and 'dangerous' 'turrd world' SDRE weapons facilities/warheads that pose an existentialist threat to the 'peace loving peoples' of S. Asia. Get paid 'eminent personalities', 'social workers' and some 'leaders' of political parties to introduce ideas 'complete unilateral Indian nuclear disarmament' in the interests of peace, into the public debate etc etc.

Looks like our greenpiss brigade will have its wish.
Stupid clowns.

Purush,

You'll notice something interesting. What A Gopalakrishnan said and what the Rediff headline indicates are not exactly the same. The spinning has started. And one of the way to spin is to differentiate between "this govt" and "future govt". The only problem with this kind of stuff is that there has been absolute continuity between "this govt" and "previous govts" as far as the weapons programme is concerned and this will remain so for "future govt".

Its very disingenuous to try and spin it as anything otherwise.
Last edited by amit on 13 Apr 2011 12:45, edited 1 time in total.
amit
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by amit »

amit, I notice that you continue posting massively random interpretation of what I have said. Kindly note that those are for me to read, I scan your posts only briefly to check if a patently wrong data point has been posted (once again) -- other than that, I do not read the posts at all, since you consistently and totally write "aam" where I have written "imli"

Just to keep the record straight -- a request to all posters, anything and everything Amit says about my posts should be please completely discarded.

My posts should be read themselves without the need for "vishesh tippani" which seems to be following each of them.
And now I'm packing my toys and going home to cry. Sorry boys and gals! :((

Sanku, this is a free board. If you can't stand the heat feel free to press the ignore button or counter with your own arguments. Whenever I feel you are trying to spin something outrageous I'm going to comment on that. Please accept my advance apologies about that and please don't take it personally, it's about the post not the poster. I have no doubts you're a great guy to have a beer with.

But let's just hope, for your sake, other posters heed your Statutory Warning. :)
Last edited by amit on 13 Apr 2011 13:37, edited 1 time in total.
amit
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by amit »

X-posting from the Fukushima thread:
amit wrote:Here's and interesting link. I think Amber posted something similar:
Risks from reactor accidents are estimated by the rapidly developing science of "probabilistic risk analysis" (PRA). A PRA must be done separately for each power plant (at a cost of $5 million) but we give typical results here: A fuel melt-down might be expected once in 20,000 years of reactor operation. In 2 out of 3 melt-downs there would be no deaths, in 1 out of 5 there would be over 1000 deaths, and in 1 out of 100,000 there would be 50,000 deaths. The average for all meltdowns would be 400 deaths. Since air pollution from coal burning is estimated to be causing 10,000 deaths per year, there would have to be 25 melt-downs each year for nuclear power to be as dangerous as coal burning.

Of course deaths from coal burning air pollution are not noticeable, but the same is true for the cancer deaths from reactor accidents. In the worst accident considered, expected once in 100,000 melt-downs (once in 2 billion years of reactor operation), the cancer deaths would be among 10 million people, increasing their cancer risk typically from 20% (the current U.S. average) to 20.5%. This is much less than the geographical variation--- 22% in New England to 17% in the Rocky Mountain states.

Very high radiation doses can destroy body functions and lead to death within 60 days, but such "noticeable" deaths would be expected in only 2% of reactor melt-down accidents; there would be over 100 in 0.2% of meltdowns, and 3500 in 1 out of 100,000 melt-downs. To date, the largest number of noticeable deaths from coal burning was in an air pollution incident (London, 1952) where there were 3500 extra deaths in one week. Of course the nuclear accidents are hypothetical and there are many much worse hypothetical accidents in other electricity generation technologies; e.g., there are hydroelectric dams in California whose sudden failure could cause 200,000 deaths.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by amit »

Anther X-post:
amit wrote:Another interesting document.
According to a Lancet Study in 2007, compared with nuclear power, coal is responsible for five times as many worker deaths from accidents, 470 times as many deaths due to air pollution among members of the public, and more than 1,000 times as many cases of serious illness, according to a study of the health effects of electricity generation in Europe.
In “Full cost accounting for the life cycle of coal,” published this year by a team of 12 researchers led by Paul R. Epstein of Harvard Medical School’s Center for Health and the Global Environment, the ledger included .02 cents per kilowatt hour for mental retardation caused by mercury in coal-plant emissions.

Using similar methods, Markandya and his co-author in the Lancet study, Paul Wilkinson of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, found that in Europe coal is responsible for .12 deaths from accidents, 25 deaths from pollution and 225 cases of serious illness per terawatt (1,000 billion kilowatt) hour of electricity generated. In comparison, nuclear causes .02 accidental deaths, .05 pollution deaths and .22 cases of illness.
It’s especially high in China, where three-quarters of the electricity is made by burning coal, mining accidents kill about 6,000 people a year, and hundreds of millions of people are affected by air pollution. In some inland cities, the economic cost to human health of making electricity from coal is as much as seven times higher than the cost of generating the electricity, according to a calculation by Stefan Hirschberg at the Paul Scherrer Institutin Switzerland, which has done energy system analysis for the European Commission.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Purush »

amit wrote: Purush,

You'll notice something interesting. What A Gopalakrishnan said and what the Rediff headline indicates are not exactly the same. The spinning has started. And one of the way to spin is to differentiate between "this govt" and "future govt". The only problem with this kind of stuff is that there has been absolute continuity between "this govt" and "previous govts" as far as the weapons programme is concerned and this will remain so for "future govt".

Its very disingenuous to try and spin it as anything otherwise.
Amit Mian, you're right, there is no apparent* discontinuity with regard to the nuclear weapons program between the previous govt and this govt, and will probably remain so for the next govt.

Yup, the spinning has started. Let's hope it doesn't catch on with boorka & co + the usual suspects. Perhaps GoI will not give a rat's musharraf when it comes to protests about the 'safety' of our nukes from individual clowns such as suzanne and seetalvad who may be safely ignored. But what if our opportunistic 'patriotic' local 'leaders' make a political issue out of it and mobilize mass opinion by spreading FUD? Can GoI resist the pressure of political + grassroots opposition against nuke facilities in a state/city? It's not too difficult to introduce mass hysteria in the public domain given the right pressure points (remember the H1N1 flu vaccine hysteria a couple of years ago).

In any case, the safety of our nukes should not even be a topic for discussion. It is our last line of defense against loss of land/civilization.
We have trusted successive GoIs since 1974 with safeguarding the nukes, let it continue in the same manner.

* because the system itself is not entirely transparent.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by somnath »

Given the discussion, Googled up the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission and UK Office of Nuclear regulation..

Seems both are responsible only for civilian reactors...

http://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_In ... spectorate

Not sure why though...And more interestingly, as per Dr Gopalakrishnan, AERB lost its oversight of the weapons facilities in 2000, two years after Pok II....

Strangely then, given his obvious insider status, why is Dr Gopalakrishnan bemoaning this? He should be knowing that its par for the course?!
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

somnath wrote:
amit wrote: And why is this so when the govt will be the sole entity which will run the nuclear power plants in India? You want one branch of the govt to look after what another branch is doing? If the shit hit the ceiling you want one arm of the Govt to sit in judgment to determine how another branch of the govt screwed up?

Isn't that similar to your very famous quote about Tepco sitting in judgement over Tepco?
An imagined conversation of our born again greens/original uber nationalists...

Anti-imperialists: Fukushima, wow - 100000000000000 deaths - all LWRs bad - we shouldnt buy from the satan...

NPA: Yes, yes, I told you so! Good job - spread the awareness in India how bad Fukushima is, and how 10000000000000000 deaths are expected...

NPA: And yes, BTW, what about your PHWRS? not even under "safeguards"! Horror, must be death traps for 100000000000000000000 lives..

A/I: Umm, ah, yes, but our PHWRs are safe through divine intervention...

But NPAs are largely athiests (or believers of immaculate conception, so hindu divinity does not gell with them)...

A/I: Ah ok, we should do a safety audit just to "show" them, concurrently, we will shut down all proposed projects...Serves our purpose of not buying from satan..

NPA: yes, while you do that, what about your weapons facilities? Those nasty little things you have in Tarapur, Kalpakkam and that small place with a funny name called "Iyer village"? They are not even under your own (poodle) regulator, AERB!? Horror^100000000000000.....Shut them down, now...
:rotfl: But seriously, if one looks at this dhaga, as I have done for last many years, it is more like actual conversation than "imagined conversation"... then may be not, some of the actual conversation is seen to be believed.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Governments must pay for clean-energy innovation

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110413/ ... 2137a.html
There has been much debate about the future of nuclear power following the crisis in Japan. Yet present-day fission reactors are, at best, transition technology. Instead, we should use the current high profile of energy to refocus the debate on what the long-term solution to our problems must be: innovation.

As a scientist working on energy and climate change, I was inspired by President Barack Obama's call for US researchers to put a million electric cars on the road by 2015, and to generate 80% of our electricity from carbon-neutral sources by 2035. In this journal in 1998, colleagues and I concluded that engineering projects on the scale of the Apollo moonshots might be needed to transform the world's energy system (M. I. Hoffert et al. Nature 395, 881-884; 1998). We should now be debating not whether but how to do this.

Some assert that government investment in transformative energy technology is code for tax and spend, and that suitable technologies already exist, or will be delivered by market forces. Others argue that government incentives such as feed-in tariffs for solar and wind energy are unnecessary, and that clean energy should compete in the market from the beginning. But the idea that private-sector entrepreneurship can do the job alone is based on a myth. It took 30 years of government funding of the Internet by the military research agency DARPA and the National Science Foundation before Wall Street discovered that there was money to be made out of it.

The private-sector-alone approach is a prescription for disaster, and displays abysmal ignorance of how the United States ended up with its current energy system. The US government made crucial investments in energy technology in the post-war years. Consider Hyman Rickover's light-water reactor, developed for Nautilus, the world's first nuclear submarine, which became the prototype for 85% of the world's nuclear power plants. We still use the term 'reactor fleet'.

Today, a poster child for carbon capture and storage (CCS) schemes is carbon dioxide collection at the Dakota Gasification Company's plant in Beulah, North Dakota. This facility was paid for initially by the US Department of Energy as a synfuel plant under President Jimmy Carter's Energy Independence Program. It would not have happened without massive government underwriting of the risk. CCS in the North Sea by the Norwegian Statoil Company is likewise heavily state subsidized.

No money? US debt now is a comparable per cent of gross domestic product (GDP) to what it was in the Great Depression before the Second World War. By massively borrowing from ourselves to finance President Franklin D. Roosevelt's miracles of war production and technology development, we saw aircraft morph from biplanes to jets, and nuclear power become a reality, even as the US debt-to-GDP ratio increased to more than 100% by the end of the war. We bet the farm on a stimulus package on steroids — and we won. The United States emerged as the strongest economy on the planet.

One can only hope that we're not so distracted by ideological battles about government versus private-sector funding that the real energy and global-change problems defeat us because of a failure of imagination — particularly a failure to fund research, development and demonstration in sustainable energy, at least with the initial US$15 billion a year recommended by industry leaders and academic researchers. If the president asked Congress for this sum, which could even be paid for by eliminating perverse subsidies for fossil fuels, it would still be only one-tenth of 1% of the present US GDP of $15 trillion. We can afford the investment needed to induce a revolutionary transformation of the world energy system away from fossil fuels. China is planning to invest $75 billion a year to do just that.

In the latter part of the 'American century', the United States somehow lost its way. No longer 'makers', we became a nation of rustbelts, Ponzi schemes and subprime mortgage risk, myopically focused on quarterly earnings and consumerism. What a tragedy it would be to lose America's talent for innovation after 200 years.

Mr President and Congress: open your minds to a civilization powered by wind turbines in harmony with our landscape and continental shelves; solar electricity from deserts and Earth orbit powering our cites; safe, proliferation-resistant nuclear reactors; coal gasifiers driving efficient electric power plants with CO2 stored underground; along with energy-efficient homes and public buildings, smart power grids, high-speed rail, electric and biofuelled cars, even carbon-neutral fuels made from sunlight, water and CO2 in the atmosphere more efficiently than nature does by photosynthesis. These are no longer impossible dreams, but realities of new US industries revitalized by American entrepreneurs and a high-tech workforce, much like the one Roosevelt created to fight the Second World War.

This is a dream worth rededicating the American experiment to: visionary, and yet science-based, that goal will lift the spirit of our children and grandchildren with passion and the tenacity to make it so. Say it, Barack, shout it from the rooftops, dedicate your presidency to it, and you will stand immortal in the pantheon of American leaders who changed everything.

Marty Hoffert is professor emeritus of physics at New York University. e-mail: [email protected]
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Putting aside the pro-nuke/anti-nuke debate and presenting our POV in a biting plus sniping combo, I must say that this article is inspiring in its language:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Governments must pay for clean-energy innovation

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110413/ ... 2137a.html
In this journal in 1998, colleagues and I concluded that engineering projects on the scale of the Apollo moonshots might be needed to transform the world's energy system (M. I. Hoffert et al. Nature 395, 881-884; 1998). We should now be debating not whether but how to do this.

But the idea that private-sector entrepreneurship can do the job alone is based on a myth. It took 30 years of government funding of the Internet by the military research agency DARPA and the National Science Foundation before Wall Street discovered that there was money to be made out of it.


One can only hope that we're not so distracted by ideological battles about government versus private-sector funding that the real energy and global-change problems defeat us because of a failure of imagination ...

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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanku »

GuruPrabhu wrote:Putting aside the pro-nuke/anti-nuke debate and presenting our POV in a biting plus sniping combo, I must say that this article is inspiring in its language:
Whose our? Please always ONLY speak for yourself. Basic rule.

But yes, I do agree with that statement expect that you have extrapolated your behavior to a general community.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Sanku wrote:Whose our? Please always ONLY speak for yourself. Basic rule.
:rotfl: Amber has highlighted your gems already. :lol:
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

Russian-UAE partnership eyes Indian market
Russia's AtomEnergoMash (AEM) and UAE-based Dodsal Group could begin jointly producing nuclear power plant equipment in India following the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU).

The MoU - signed in Dubai following a two-day meeting between the companies – provides for cooperation in the production and supply of power equipment for nuclear power plants, thermal power plants and for the oil and gas industry. It also calls for cooperation in technology transfer and consultancy services. Discussions between the two companies began in May 2010.

AEM - the engineering division of the Russian state nuclear energy company Rosatom - and Dubai-based diversified multinational group of companies Dodsal Group have agreed to set up a manufacturing unit in India with an initial investment of some $150 million. They have targeted the start-up of commercial production at the unit by the first quarter of 2013.

Rajen Kilachand, chairman and CEO of Dodsal, commented: "The memorandum of understanding with AtomEnergoMash is another step for Dodsal Group in expanding its activities in the power sector." He added, "The collaboration between AtomEnergoMash and Dodsal Group will help India implement its ambitious, particularly in the area of projects in the nuclear industry."

Vladimir Kashchenko, director general of AEM, said, "Localisation projects to produce power plant equipment in the most promising regions of the world is part of our strategy to transform AtomEnergoMash into a global energy machine building company."

The MoU with AEM follows the acquisition last month by Dodsal of the former Austrian engineering company AE&E IDEA based in Chennai, India, which it said will be merged into the wider engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) business of the Dodsal Group.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Sanatanan »

I believe this has not been posted before.

Russia's nuclear chief says Japan exaggerating crisis - Reuters, Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:15pm GMT.

[quote]
. . .

Japanese officials on Tuesday upgraded the severity of the emergency at the tsunami-damaged Fukushima Daiichi plant to a 7, putting it on par with the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster, the world's worst.

"It is hard for me to assess why the Japanese colleagues have taken this decision. I suspect, this is more of a financial issue, than a nuclear one," Sergei Kiriyenko said on the sidelines of a meeting of major developing economies in southern China.

"I guess that maybe it could be linked to the definition of force-majeure with regard to insurance. I would pay attention to that. It is a bit strange," Kiriyenko said without further elaboration.

. . .
[/quote]


Is some Liability leela going on?
Last edited by Sanatanan on 15 Apr 2011 06:52, edited 1 time in total.
Amber G.
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ It has been posted before (may be in the other thread), but thanks for posting it here.
arnab
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by arnab »

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110415/j ... 856834.jsp
N-plants plan quake shutdown
- Closure at slightest risk and hook-ups for quick water supply
India will buttress safety at its nuclear power plants and gear them for automatic shutdowns during earthquake-triggered ground movements under a plan pencilled after the nuclear crisis in Japan.

The NPC plan which emerged from internal safety audits has also sought an increase in the duration for which the cores of nuclear reactors that have shut down may be cooled with passive systems that require no electric power.
The safety audits have also recommended the creation of “hook-up” arrangements for adding cooling water inventory to all reactor cooling systems and to support mobile diesel-driven pumping units.
All of India’s reactors are designed to handle the seismic events that can occur in their seismic zones — and shut down when ground accelerations exceed specific values. But the safety audits have now recommended that reactors should automatically shut down even if the site experiences ground acceleration that is slightly lower than the current safe operating limits.
somnath
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by somnath »

^^Arnab,

Interesting nuggets (not unknown), but as reiteration..

1. This is most interesting..
All of India’s reactors are designed to handle the seismic events that can occur in their seismic zones
I reckon that does not include seiemic events recorded in the vedas :wink:

2. Passive cooling..
has also sought an increase in the duration for which the cores of nuclear reactors that have shut down may be cooled with passive systems that require no electric power.
Again, there is no such thing as "indefnintitely passive cooling", as some were suggesting...
Virupaksha
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Virupaksha »

Somnath,

Why did you have to denigrate Hinduism in your post?
GuruPrabhu
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by GuruPrabhu »

How exactly was Hiduism denigrated? What are the criteria for denigration?

You have a shallow understanding of Hinduism if you react like a Jihadi viewing a cartoon.

[Now we await an == comment from someone saying "both sides are snapping at each other".]
Last edited by GuruPrabhu on 15 Apr 2011 08:18, edited 1 time in total.
somnath
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by somnath »

ravi_ku wrote:Somnath,

Why did you have to denigrate Hinduism in your post?
Chill, Ravi_ku-ji, dont "look" for insults where there are none! Maybe you might want to go through the previous pages to know the context of that remark...
Virupaksha
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Virupaksha »

Somnath,

I specifically read the last two pages before making that comment so that you dont get that defence.
You are the only person I am going to try to put on my ignore list. I dont know if this forum has one even.

GP,

I think I know the difference when it is an insult and when it is not, especially when it comes from someone who has a continuous record of doing it across multiple threads in the most unnecessary of scenarios.

Anyways, good luck to you Somnath. My last comment on this.
somnath
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by somnath »

Sanatanan wrote:Is some Liability leela going on?
It is somewhat curious...Is the definition of force majeure in Japanese third party nuke insurance dependent on the "severity" of the accident? In other words, an earthquake causing a severity 4 situation is not force majeure, but one that cause severity 7 is?! That would be curious indeed...
GuruPrabhu
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by GuruPrabhu »

somnath wrote:
Sanatanan wrote:Is some Liability leela going on?
It is somewhat curious...Is the definition of force majeure in Japanese third party nuke insurance dependent on the "severity" of the accident? In other words, an earthquake causing a severity 4 situation is not force majeure, but one that cause severity 7 is?! That would be curious indeed...
Is it not a denigration of Hinduism to associate the Holy Leela of Sri Krishna with the shenanigans of some nuke industry low-lives?
somnath
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by somnath »

ravi_ku wrote:Somnath,

I specifically read the last two pages before making that comment so that you dont get that defence.
You are the only person I am going to try to put on my ignore list. I dont know if this forum has one even.
.
There is no need for any "defence" - there was no denigration of hinduism...But get out of that victimhood syndrome - the world is much prettier outside that cocoon....
Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Theo_Fidel »

somnath wrote:Again, there is no such thing as "indefnintitely passive cooling", as some were suggesting...
This is correct. Technically Units 2,3&4 were also designed to be passively cooled by the wet well. But cool water needed to be added continuously at pressure.
arnab
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by arnab »

NPCIL's note on the safety features of the proposed Jaitpur Nuke plants post Fukushima. This was put out to allay public concerns but media chose to focus on Thakre sound bites and the 'Hazare' effect :)

http://www.npcil.nic.in/pdf/JAITAPUR_EP ... rticle.pdf
somnath
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by somnath »

^^Good note...reiterates Dr Srikumar "this person" Bannerjee's comments on EPR being an "unproven" design..
As an evolutionary design, the EPR reactor planned at Jaitapur combines proven safety systems inherited from its highly efficient “parent” reactors, the French N4 and the German Konvoi, which total more than a hundred years of safe and effective operation and have generated over 1,160 TWh of electricity so far, and innovative features that integrate the return on experience from past industry events.
And this is a new development in reactor safety after 9/11..
The outer shell can absorb the impact of a large commercial aircraft
Otherwise, generally useful info...
Lalmohan
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

^^^ clearly a paqui/cheeni propaganda site
somnath
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by somnath »

^^Kailash-ji, even less credibility than an NPA...It seems to be a pretty low-grade Paki propaganda piece..
GuruPrabhu
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Re: India Nuclear News And Discussion

Post by GuruPrabhu »

^^^ Yes, it is happening. Joe Cirincione on the other dhaga and some "Eurasia Review" crap on this. Pardon me for thinking I was on a Bharat "rakshak" forum. I can read this crap on hazaar NPA inspired websites.
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