Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

[Ramin]

another one i found while lurking F16.net



Squadron Leader Sameen Mazhar

S/L Sameen Mazhar joined the Pakistani Air Force (Pakistan Fiza'ya) in October 1980, and after four years of rigorous training and academics at the PAF College at Sargodha, he was awarded a bachelors degree in Aerosciences. He then went to the Air Force Academy at Risalpur for flying training. After 1 1/2 year of flying training, including primary and basic jet flying on T-37 a/c, he was awarded his "wings" and was commissioned as a "pilot officer" in the G D(P) (general duty pilot) branch of the PAF in 1985. In Pakistan, this is quite an achievement, since the attrition rate during various tests and phases was almost 50%. Only half of the cadets could make it to the pilot officer rank during these five years.

S/L Mazhar did his fighter conversion on the Mig-17, and, thanks to his excellent flying skills was directly sent to the Mirage OCU (normally, after fighter conversion, all PAF pilots are sent to the F-6 (Sheniyang-built MiG-19, aka J-6) OCU or the F-7P (Sheniyang-built MiG-21, aka J-7). After successfully completing Mirage conversion, he was posted to Nr. 8 Tactical Attack sqn equipped with the Mirage V PA3. There he specialized in the Air to Sea role. From there he was posted to Nr. 11 OCU for conversion on the viper in 1990 after which he was assigned to Nr. 9 Multi role sqn. S/L Mazhar also flew the F-16 in the prestegious "Combat Commanders" School of the PAF, where he took an advanced course similar to USN Fighter Weapons School (Topgun). (F-16.net Note: To give you an idea of the stringent criteria and high standard of training in the PAF, only 1% of the initial intake makes it to fighter pilot in the squadrons of the PAF.)

F-16.net: How long have you flown the Viper and how many hours do you have on the F-16?

S/L. Mazhar: I have been flying the viper since 1990. But there was a break of 2 1/2 years in between when I did a tenure as a Flight Instructor in PAF Academy. Due to some restrictions, we do not fly as much as USAF or Turkish AF pilots do, therefore I only have about 500 hours on the F-16.

F-16.net: How would you compare the F-16 to the other aircraft types you flew?

S/L. Mazhar: Well, in a nutshell, Mig is potent but lacks sophistication, but mind you if a good pilot is sitting in a Mig, it takes a while to get him in your HUD. Mirage comes no where close to the Viper in air combat, but for its role, surface attack, its a beautiful and effective platform.

F-16.net: What is the principal role of the F-16 in the PAF?

S/L. Mazhar: Although the principal role of Pakistani F-16s is Air Defence, it is utilized as a true multi role aircraft in our Air Force. We are extensively using the F-16 in various roles like strike, deep interdiction, escort etc.

F-16.net: Is there a difference in the roles of the three sqns? Which squadron did you enjoy most serving with?

S/L. Mazhar: Yes. Apart from the operational flying, Nr. 11 OCU has to fulfill the task of being the sole F-16 conversion unit for the PAF. CCS is purely an advanced tactics school for section leaders during their mid career. I enjoyed all the three assignments as I was flying the F-16.

F-16.net: What are the consequences of Pakistan's geographical location for the Pakistani Air Force, and for the Pakistan F-16s in particular?

S/L. Mazhar: I don't want to go in detail in this matter but due to obvious reasons of Russian invasion / unrest in Afghanistan in the west, and india's vision of becoming a mini ''superpower'' in Asia, on our east, PAF has to keep a vigilant eye all along its border to defend the sovereignty of its country. The F-16s are the only a/c equipped with the latest avionics suite which can effectively fulfill this task therefore it puts them under tremendous pressure as far as the responsibility is concerned.

F-16.net: The PAF is one of the few airforces whose F-16s saw actual combat. How does this affect the Pakistani AF and its F-16 pilots? What were the circumstances of those engagements?

S/L. Mazhar: Quite a long question! It has made a Pakistani pilot more wise I would say, and Air Force on the whole, as far as the employment of the F-16 is concerned. We have devised new tactics and educated our non AI equipped a/c pilots how to handle a situation if they are pitched against an AI equipped threat. In the beginning the Russians and the Afghanis were really flying like bafoons, but later they also learnt how to employ their a/c. They used split level tactics and played with numbers (typical Russian doctrine), in the end, to increase the task of the viper pilots. At time a single viper had to play with six to eight adversaries and mind you this is no exaggeration.

F-16.net: What is life in a PAF F-16 sqn like? Do you think the sqn life in the PAF is different from sqn life in other airforces?

S/L. Mazhar: Life in a PAF F-16 sqn is quite tough; to be very frank. Due to the diversity of the role, the pilots are trained in almost all the roles. We do not have pilots specialised in only one role. You can very comfortably call them multi-role pilots. This calls for full time dedication and hard work on the part of the pilots to maintain standards alongwith normal flying and 24 hours air defence alert duties. We really mean business here in the F-16 sqns.

F-16.net: What flight profiles (air-air; air-ground,...) do you enjoy most and why?

S/L. Mazhar: My favourite is the ESCORT role. It is a true blend of surface attack and air-air at low level. I think it's the ultimate you can derive out of a viper, though it demands a lot of training, there's no match pivoting a viper at 250 feet AGL, keeping an eye on the radar scope, watching your tail and shoot as well!

F-16.net: Do you have particularly fond memories of a specific deployment or exercise?

S/L. Mazhar: HIGHMARK 93 - one of the major exercises PAF conducts. I had twenty five "confirmed" kills in air during a twelve day period, the highest for any pilot in any exercise of the PAF.

F-16.net: Thanks for the interview!

- S/L Mazhar was interviewed online by Stefaan Vanhastel -

http://www.f-16.net/interviews_article6.html

[rohitvats]

Why is it difficult to digest the fact that PAF piloted F-16 downed Typhoon in WVR combat? Remember, IN taking on Rafael in in WVR and French AF praising them for their WVR skills or Mig-21 taking on F-15@Cope India? I don't think there is anything extraordinary in this. Air Combat is funny business in serious sense and not a straight forward tech/specs game as played out on internet forums.

[Rahul M]

rohit, if that was the only sticking point I would have accepted it but an 'interview' that doesn't mention the name or even the rank of the pilot ?? add to that the overtly candid interview and the warning lights start blinking. the same article was posted in keypubs and you will see that the couple of sane pak posters that are there are questioning the authenticity as well.

p.s. since when did we become so gullible on BR ?

[Singha]

BVR is where technology (better radar, IRST, passive EW, active ECM, better AAM) and stealth brings some weight to bear.

perhaps that is why "NATO" strategy is to use their tech advantages to full and try to keep things at bvr level, avoiding the unpredictable risks of wvr.

during red flag, it seems the FrAF rafales would use the higher RCS of the MKIs to mask their approach (when operating in combination with MKIs), take bvr sniping shots and get out....

[shiv]

rohit, if that was the only sticking point I would have accepted it but an 'interview' that doesn't mention the name or even the rank of the pilot ?? add to that the overtly candid interview and the warning lights start blinking. the same article was posted in keypubs and you will see that the couple of sane pak posters that are there are questioning the authenticity as well.

p.s. since when did we become so gullible on BR ?

if Pakis don't like it - it may be authentic.

I don't see myself standing side by side with some Pakis questioning the authenticity of that interview - it sounds gen-new-wine to me. If he revealed his name and rank after saying all that he would be wajib ul cattle. Pakis just don't like what the man says about US usage restrictions. Indian jingos don't like what he says about Typhoon shoot down. If we accept that the pilot may have been a good one - then the rest of the interview is pretty amusing and mellifluous music to my ears.

[negi]

Typical of a Paki pilot high on rhetoric and bragging; 25 kills in 12 days (their air farce does not even have required F-16s to sustain daily sorties for a 12 day period just for an exercise , rest of the AC might be a mix of F-7s and Mirage-IIIs); obviously chipanda junk against a F-16 is a no contest.

[Aditya G]

Thanks for interview from PAF Falcones. Amazingly candid and revealing.

Viz-a-viz BVR vs close-in; even Rafale M facing Nausena SHARs in Ex Varuna credited our crews to be "highly accomplished" in visual range.

PAF and PA Aviation have got a major boost post 2001: reading Air Cmde Tufail's article tells how bad things were over there in the 1990s:

F-16 CAPs could not have been flown all day long as spares support was limited under the prevailing US sanctions. Random CAPs were resorted to, with a noticeable drop in border violations only as long as the F-16s were on station. There were a few cases of F-16s and Mirage-2000s locking their adversaries with the on-board radars but caution usually prevailed and no close encounters took place. After one week of CAPs, the F-16 maintenance personnel indicated that war reserve spares were being eaten into and that the activity had to be ‘rationalised’, a euphemism for discontinuing it altogether.

There was another article which mentioned that F-16 pilots were barely getting 100-150 hours per year.

Its not just the shiny F-16s, but the small things like maintenance, support equipment, training and exposure which changes the force.

[shiv]

Thanks for interview from PAF Falcones. Amazingly candid and revealing.

Viz-a-viz BVR vs close-in; even Rafale M facing Nausena SHARs in Ex Varuna credited our crews to be "highly accomplished" in visual range.

PAF and PA Aviation have got a major boost post 2001: reading Air Cmde Tufail's article tells how bad things were over there in the 1990s:

F-16 CAPs could not have been flown all day long as spares support was limited under the prevailing US sanctions. Random CAPs were resorted to, with a noticeable drop in border violations only as long as the F-16s were on station. There were a few cases of F-16s and Mirage-2000s locking their adversaries with the on-board radars but caution usually prevailed and no close encounters took place. After one week of CAPs, the F-16 maintenance personnel indicated that war reserve spares were being eaten into and that the activity had to be ‘rationalised’, a euphemism for discontinuing it altogether.

There was another article which mentioned that F-16 pilots were barely getting 100-150 hours per year.

Its not just the shiny F-16s, but the small things like maintenance, support equipment, training and exposure which changes the force.

Don't phorget this

S/L. Mazhar: I have been flying the viper since 1990. But there was a break of 2 1/2 years in between when I did a tenure as a Flight Instructor in PAF Academy. Due to some restrictions, we do not fly as much as USAF or Turkish AF pilots do, therefore I only have about 500 hours on the F-16.

20 years. 500 hours

25 hours per year.

Jeevay. Jeevay beggarstan

[krishnan]

Probably much less than 500 , but just to save his poor musharaf he is quoting 500

[Ramin]

he said 500 hours on the F-16, not the other aircrafts he flew

[Guddu]

Doktor sahab...always dangerous to extrapolate using linear methods....though you may be right. The 500 hrs could also have been in just 1-2 years, as opposed to spread over 20 years. Would be good to know from other data/sources, what the true situation is wrt to PAF training.

[shiv]

Doktor sahab...always dangerous to extrapolate using linear methods....though you may be right. The 500 hrs could also have been in just 1-2 years, as opposed to spread over 20 years. Would be good to know from other data/sources, what the true situation is wrt to PAF training.

Everything is speculation unless you look at the data available.

What is the data available?

The data quoted by one pilot of his own experience of flying 500 hours on F-16 in 20 years.

Maybe he flew 480 hours in 1990 and one hour per year after that. We have no idea. More data would be appreciated - but hey this data gives me a great reason to ROTFL and mock Pakis which I will proceed to do and hopefully will not have to endure lectures that "One must not underestimate the enemy. blahblah"

There is no other data available to me, having searched in vain for data for over a decade myself. I take this data with joyful gratitude and choose to divide 500 by 20 and

[Harshad]

another one i found while lurking F16.net



Squadron Leader Sameen Mazhar

S/L Sameen Mazhar joined the Pakistani Air Force (Pakistan Fiza'ya) in October 1980, and after four years of rigorous training and academics at the PAF College at Sargodha, he was awarded a bachelors degree in Aerosciences. He then went to the Air Force Academy at Risalpur for flying training. After 1 1/2 year of flying training, including primary and basic jet flying on T-37 a/c, he was awarded his "wings" and was commissioned as a "pilot officer" in the G D(P) (general duty pilot) branch of the PAF in 1985. In Pakistan, this is quite an achievement, since the attrition rate during various tests and phases was almost 50%. Only half of the cadets could make it to the pilot officer rank during these five years.

S/L Mazhar did his fighter conversion on the Mig-17, and, thanks to his excellent flying skills was directly sent to the Mirage OCU (normally, after fighter conversion, all PAF pilots are sent to the F-6 (Sheniyang-built MiG-19, aka J-6) OCU or the F-7P (Sheniyang-built MiG-21, aka J-7). After successfully completing Mirage conversion, he was posted to Nr. 8 Tactical Attack sqn equipped with the Mirage V PA3. There he specialized in the Air to Sea role. From there he was posted to Nr. 11 OCU for conversion on the viper in 1990 after which he was assigned to Nr. 9 Multi role sqn. S/L Mazhar also flew the F-16 in the prestegious "Combat Commanders" School of the PAF, where he took an advanced course similar to USN Fighter Weapons School (Topgun). (F-16.net Note: To give you an idea of the stringent criteria and high standard of training in the PAF, only 1% of the initial intake makes it to fighter pilot in the squadrons of the PAF.)

v/s

http://www.nettracks2000.com/sargodhian ... htm#sameen

Sameen Mazhar

Graduated with 79th GD (P) in 1985. After FCU went to Mirage OCU then No. 8 Sqn Masroor, F-16 OCU and No. 9 Sqn Sargodha. Did a tenure in the PAF Academy PFT sqn. Back to No. 11 OCU and got tired of the race and took retirement. Opened a small enterprise of Computers in Dubai and did my MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, MCSE+I and now working on my MCDBA. Looking forward to contact all buddies from the past courtesy of this site!!!

My website address is http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/8512


Allah Hafiz

Sameen Mazhar

[Rahul M]

shiv ji, it's not like his name or rank will be unknown to PAF, there are only a couple of such pilots on exchange at any time. on the contrary, assuming the interview is authentic, it is being held back from common abduls. now that simply doesn't make sense. why would you hide the name and rank of a pilot in a publicly known assignment, unless of course you do not know it ? and would PAF take it lying down if one of its pilots violated its H&D in public ? has PAF EVER been so candid about US snooping ? then why would this pilot, at high risk to his promising career no less.

IMHO the interview is cooked up by someone who has his sources in PAF but not the paki exchange pilot to interview. the US comments are not surprising because there pro-china anti-US fanboys (most with jehadi sympathies) who recommend a complete cut in relations with US, especially of the GUBO variety.
'pakis are questioning it, hence it is true' can't be the only possible solution to this riddle. pakis of the less jehadi type who think pak can still squeeze some more from unkil would obviously oppose it.

[SSridhar]

IMHO the interview is cooked up by someone who has his sources in PAF but not the paki exchange pilot to interview.

In either case, the information seems believable.

Jacobabad has complete access to the Chinese because the crown jewels are located thereabouts. Slowly, we are learning about the Chinese occupation of Pakistan.

[shiv]

Rahul - you are perfectly right in saying that but I want to make a point here because this topic is definitely going to come up in later months and years. That interview has two sides to it.

Let me first write from an Indian jingo viewpoint:
1) Bad news: PAF pilots are good. They bested the Typhoon
2) Good news: Top pilots of the PAF hardly got 25 hours per year on the F-16.
3) Good News: There are usage restrictions on Us supplied equipment.

Now either we have to take the interviews as 100% correct or 100% cooked up. We cannot pick and choose what we like and discard what we don't like. That means that if we reject the idea that a PAF pilot bested the Typhoon, we must also reject the 500 hours in 20 years as well as the US restrictions information.

However, if we choose to believe the interview, we are constrained to believe that a PAF pilot did indeed get a Typhoon in simulated combat, although they have not had too much flying practice and there are usage restrictions.

To me the interviews sound very credible. Having spoken to IAF pilots who have attended courses with PAF pilots in third countries - I know that the IAF people do think that PAF guys used to come out with flying colors compared with the assorted Saudis and others who were also present in those courses. We also know for a fact that the serviceability of the F-16 has been restricted. And we have very strong reasons to suspect that the US does place restrictions on the use of the equipment it supplies.

By dismissing the interview as fake I also have to dismiss a lot of information that sounds perfectly credible and corroborates with information obtained from other sources. And that includes the reference to Sameen Mazhar in the "Sargodhians" link provided by Harshad which I am now going to archive because I bet my left testimonial that it will be removed soon.

[Rahul M]

SS and shiv ji, actually the problem is that the 'interview' mixes facts with opinion and misinformation, which makes it hard to decide what to believe. IMO pick and chose is a better way to filter this info rather than classifying it as 100% black (or white).

f.e the typhoon claim, once I would have believed easily, but 3 times is a little hard to digest. after all RAF pilots are no mugs either.

[shiv]

f.e the typhoon claim, once I would have believed easily, but 3 times is a little hard to digest. after all RAF pilots are no mugs either.

Rahul one reason for "losing" could be to let the other guy to reveal his tactics. Another reason would be rules of engagement requiring flying under restrictions. By F-15 "losing" to MiG 21 in Cope India the US was both flying with restrictions and ended up learning how a small Bison could "hide" behind larger aircraft in a tactic that you can be sure the USAF is now ready to tackle.

That does not in any way reduce the pride of the pilots who did that, and it does not in any way run down the "losers"

[negi]

One more variable is the average number of hours the RAF pilots had put on the Typhoon.

[Rahul M]

or it could be like that incident from the 80's when a fizzle ya pilot took a gun camera snap of a USAF F-15 during a routine flight (i.e not during a combat exercise) and claimed a 'kill'. UK is trying to sell the EF all over the world, they know the value of PR and RAF is pretty good at it. what are the chances they would send a greenhorn to a multinational exercise ? pretty low.

what are the chances that they would 'allow' the EF to be brought down, a piece of news that would pretty soon snowball into terrible PR ? mind you, I am not questioning the capability of paki pilots but if this really happened 3 times as the 'interview' claims, I bet we would have heard it a million times by now, both from EF detractors and paki fanboys, not to mention LM and the whole american military media.

[Austin]

And the experience of pilot counts, if you end up in a DACT with a rookie viz a viz an experienced pilot on another capable aircraft the experience guy would have an upper hand.

Another interesting point he seems to have pressed upon and this has been done by PAF chief in the past is the do not and will not depend on American fighter as their spearhead or even as their backbone , any american equipment provided to PAF is just a bonus they get and they would gather as much as they can but will not depend on it , the would certainly standardise on JF-17 and J-20 in good numbers with F-16 being the case of more the merrier.

[negi]

Another interesting point he seems to have pressed upon and this has been done by PAF chief in the past is the do not and will not depend on American fighter as their spearhead or even as their backbone , any american equipment provided to PAF is just a bonus

This is a big haajmola like their sau-virginity rhetoric; It is the Unkil supplied F-16s and aim-120c which lend some credibility to the PAF and those 18 BLK52s with sniper pods are not gonna be taken away even if Unkil were to retreat from Af-Pak. Unkil no doubt can monitor how it's weapons are being used by the TSP but like in the past it may look the other way if TSP were to employ them against India.

[Austin]

happened 3 times as the 'interview' claims, I bet we would have heard it a million times by now, both from EF detractors and paki fanboys, not to mention LM and the whole american military media.

The 3 kills might just be a good forum debate scoring point for the F-16 fans but in reality it does not prove any thing , except that on a given day with an unknown pilot in command of Typhoon and under unknown rules of BFM exercise the F-16 scored kills ( doesnt matter if this was PAF or USAF pilot )

Fact is countries keep on exercising with friendly nation or in joint programs like Red Flag and it is possible that an F-16 could have got kills against MKI,Typhoon , Rafale or a MKI got kills against Typhoon ,Rafale or F-22 , BFM is just a learning and sharing experience for pilots

IF the same PAF pilot with 3 Typhoon Kills under his belt in a BFM would meet RAF or NATO in a real war the result might not be as favorable for him

[Austin]

This is a big haajmola like their sau-virginity rhetoric; It is the Unkil supplied F-16s and aim-120c which lend some credibility to the PAF and those 18 BLK52s with sniper pods are not gonna be taken away even if Unkil were to retreat from Af-Pak. Unkil no doubt can monitor how it's weapons are being used by the TSP but like in the past it may look the other way if TSP were to employ them against India.

I do not think its just a rhetoric on PAF part , every PAF chief interviewed have made the same point in one way or the other , the Pressler ammendment and subsequent sanction after N test has left bad memories in PAF on the availability and serviceability of American equipment specially fighter , its almost there in the rank and file of PAF , that the American can turn their back as soon as their job got done.

So they diversified and since they didnt had money they simply opted for what ever was available from China , sure situations changed after 9/11 but the bad memories are just too deep , so any free F-16 or any thing that comes from American with strings attached is just a bonus , doesnt matter if those are good toys.

After all what good is the F-16 with AIM-120C5 if the PAF cannot use it offensively in say war against India or comes with strings attached where using it might just not be feasible for political reasons.

[negi]

After all what good is the F-16 with AIM-120C5 if the PAF cannot use it offensively in say war against India or comes with strings attached where using it might just not be feasible for political reasons.

Who said that TSP cannot use those F-16s against India ? Finally are we to believe such BS ?
Coming to Paki diversification plan we will think about it when it happens as of now it is the Unkil provided weapons which are keeping the PAF in the game else without those F-16s and aim120c it would be much easier for the IAF to control the skies over TSP.

[Austin]

Who said that TSP cannot use those F-16s against India ? Finally are we to believe such BS ?

That was just an example IF the situation came to that , chances are the American equipment will be put to good use only if the war is seen as furthering American interest.

What ever be the case PAF knows US equipment comes with strings attached and that they had unpleasant time dealing with it just a decade back.

Coming to Paki diversification plan we will think about it when it happens as of now it is the Unkil provided weapons which are keeping the PAF in the game else without those F-16s and aim120c it would be much easier for the IAF to control the skies over TSP.

Unkil weapons are just dumps so if the PAF wants it and Unkil approves it they can dump an entire squadron of F-16 in 2 weeks , the JF-17 and J-20 are still at works though we might not see them coming in big numbers in the next 2-3 years but in a decade from now they would easily surpass the teens number in squadron and strength.

As far as IAF ruling the TSP skies lets see when that happens

[shiv]

er Folks could someone explain to me why there are so many references to the J-20 in the PAF?

What exactly is the J-20? When did serial production and exports start?

As an aside - the refuelling mechanism for the F-16 conformal tanks were developed in India - HAL if I am not mistaken. I hope Pakistan is not getting those?

[Singha]

the only useful takeaway from the intview would be the F-16 block50+ is still rather good at WVR and not to be trifled with unless your terms are favourable. and we already knew the paf picks its best to pilot the f-16, its not something new.

IAF already seems to have taken all of this into account in its plans.

[Austin]

er Folks could someone explain to me why there are so many references to the J-20 in the PAF?

Oh i mean the J-10

[arun]

X Posted from the TSP thread.

Najam Sethi in The News on the relationship of the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan with the US:

The military cannot forever hunt with America and run with an anti-American Pakistani public they have helped to create. They cannot instruct the DG-ISPR in Islamabad to convey the impression of tough talking in Langley while asking the GOC 7 Division in Waziristan to give a realistic brief to the media about the critical benefits of drone strikes amidst all the “myths and rumours” of their negativity. This double-dealing confuses the public, annoys a strategic partner, and discredits the military all round when it is exposed.

The duality or contradiction in the military’s private and public position vis a vis its relationship with civilians in Pakistan and its relationship with America is a direct consequence of two inter-related factors: First, the military’s threat perception of India’s rising military capability, and second, its fear of losing control over India-centred national security policy to the civilians who are keen to start the process of building permanent peace in the region, thereby diluting the military’s pre-eminent role in Pakistan’s polity.

The military’s policy of renting itself out to America for its own sake and also complaining about it at the same time for the sake of the Pakistani public is clearly bankrupt.

Read it all :

‘The Pakistan ultimatum’

[rohitvats]

With a miniscule level of F-16 in their inventory, it is no surprise that PAF picks up the best of the lot and with very high flying hours to be part of these squadrons -both to ensure preservation of a priced asset and to get the maximum out of the a/c potential.

As opposed to this, the pilots on EF/Rafael/F-16 Blk52-60/M2K-5 from other airforces in west would be mix of greenhorns to vetrans. Our own expanding fleet of MKI is a prime example of that. So, if PAF sends in a CCS qualified bunch with 800+hours of flying for exercise(s) and if these pilots trump some greenhorn or even a 300-400 hours pilot on EF or what have you, and that too in WVR arena, it should not come as surprise to anyone.

[D Roy]

that article shows just how deeply ingrained some myths are in Pak.

Predator/Reaper technology is understood to be "devastating" ( typical abdul view) and "not shared" with any country except Israel.

Wrrrrong. Wrrrong. Italy and Uqistan have already used them. And of course something that you will not get in an Abdul paper - The great Turkis are procuring half a dozen as well.

And armed drones are hardly "devastating" technology. the generation in use over AF-Pak can operate only in ultra-benign airspace a view attested to by Yamriki general when he acknowledged that they would fall like flies if even a half-decent AD was available.

these aren't even really unmanned - remotely manned is more like it.

[Aditya G]

With a miniscule level of F-16 in their inventory, it is no surprise that PAF picks up the best of the lot and with very high flying hours to be part of these squadrons -both to ensure preservation of a priced asset and to get the maximum out of the a/c potential. ....

That sounds logical.

But if we accept that as true, we should also accept that there are pilots in the remaining squadrons are only average.

[rohitvats]

^^^No they are not neccessarily.....as pilots will rotate out of these squadrons to other units with different a/c. The numbers of vacancies of flight commanders and sqadron commanders will be that much limited in these squadrons. Pilots coming up for promotion will rotate out to other squadrons. The fact that these pilots come from F-7 or Mirage-III/V stream in first place would allow for that much easier absorption.

[D Roy]

er Folks could someone explain to me why there are so many references to the J-20 in the PAF?

arrey J-10 will be called FC-20 bhen it will be in Puki service. So the reference is to FC-20 which must be getting conflated with J-20 now.
but it is J-10 = PAF F-20 or FC-20.


And one more thing Close air support played a significant role in Afghanistan. The Taliban success in 1995-98 was in no small measure due to Fizaya support. Taliban units do have experience in operating under air cover. As to do northern alliance fighters.

before that the Afghan National Army had gotten used to Russki and domestic air support. In fact in the period between 1987-90 when the soviets had withdrawn Najibullah's forces actually did quite well against the mujahideen using both tactical SSMs and air support. In fact the Afghan air force use to operate besides the fitter and the fishpot, the IL-28 beagle as well.

Now one could argue what is CAS in the mountains and in those days especially when people had not even heard of digital CAS?

But it still mattered.

[Mahendra]

wrt J-20

It is a matter of oversight by the Chinese administrator operating the photocopy machine. Instead of pressing 1 for one copy, he pressed 2. This is how J10 became J20.

[VinodTK]

Pakistan produces its first tank gun

Pakistan's first locally-produced tank gun is ready to be fitted for its Main Battle Tanks (MBT), a media report said.

Dawn Monday said that the tank gun is ready to be delivered to the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) for Al-Khalid and Al-Zarar tanks. A tank gun is the main armament of a tank.

HIT used to earlier procure 125 millimetre 'blanks' from France for the army's two main battle tanks. Blanks are the final shape of the gun barrel before it is finished. It was then fitted into the tank at HIT.

While Al-Khalid - a joint venture between Pakistan and China - has been with the army since 2001, Al-Zarar is an upgraded T-59 tank.

The country's first blank was produced at the Heavy Mechanical Complex (HMC) in Taxila.

Dawn quoted an official as saying the army had given a go-ahead for the production of 50 125 mm barrels for the two MBTs.

A specialised weapons grade steel was used to manufacture the tank gun. A block of metal is pressed to become a five-metre-long square bar that is forged into a smooth bore 125 mm barrel.

The HIT has finalised a deal for Rs.200 million for the 50 barrels, which is slightly less than the cost of each barrel bought from France.

The official said that after delivering 50 tank guns, the HMC plans to produce artillery guns for the Pakistan Army.

[shiv]

Pakistan produces its first tank gun

Pakistan's first locally-produced tank gun is ready to be fitted for its Main Battle Tanks (MBT), a media report said.

This is an interesting commentary on Pakistani industry which is at the level where the West was between 1930 and 1950. Before anyone does an equal equal let me hasten to add that Indian industry is perhaps at a level where the West was between 1960 and 1980.

[Singha]

I agree but only about the arms industry. in civilian side both internal growth and free import of latest technology has enabled us to catch up much faster. we are perhaps around 1995 level in civilian industry vs the western coalition.

its upto GOI to leverage the civilian side as much it can. if they cannot reform OFB and internal R&D, atleast they can bypass on suitable deals.

[Kailash]

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