2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

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abhishek_sharma
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Pools of Danger: Charles D. Ferguson

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commen ... n1/English
The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear crisis in Japan has underscored the dangers of storing highly radioactive spent fuel in pools of water that are susceptible to breaches from natural disasters and hydrogen explosions from accidents. The crisis should serve as a wake-up call for governments and industry to take action to reduce the risks of spent-fuel storage.

Unfortunately, spent-fuel storage has been “an afterthought,” as Ernest Moniz, Director of the Energy Initiative at MIT, puts it. In dozens of countries, tens of thousands of tons of highly radioactive material has been kept in buildings that provide little of the usually rigorous protection surrounding radioactive material in reactors’ cores.

Pools have become overcrowded in many countries, owing to the lack of permanent repositories for nuclear waste. No country has opened such a repository, although Sweden has made significant progress in doing so.

The hazards of pools for spent nuclear fuel have been known for many years, but little action has been taken to alleviate the risks. One notable exception has been Germany. About 25 years ago, the German government began requiring spent fuel to be well protected. The older spent fuel that has cooled for about five years is placed in hardened, dry storage casks, and the younger, more radioactive, and hotter spent fuel is cooled in pools of water surrounded by strong containment structures.

These measures cost more money, but they afford much greater protection against accidents, disasters, and terrorist attacks. Is it worth it? A 2003 study, led by Robert Alvarez, a former official at the United States Department of Energy, estimated that a worse-case terrorist attack could drain cooling pools, resulting in spent fuel rods heating up and possibly combusting. That, in turn, would cause substantial amounts of radioactive material to be released if containment structures are breached, potentially resulting in an area of contamination greater than that caused by the Chernobyl accident in 1986.

Despite this alarming conclusion, the study did not prompt the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission to order utilities to remove spent fuel from overcrowded pools at more than 100 US commercial reactors. It did, however, spur the preparation of a US National Academy of Sciences’ report, which concluded that “successful terrorist attacks on spent fuel pools, though difficult, are possible.”

While the report did not recommend placement of older spent fuel into dry storage casks, it did advise the less expensive method of rearranging spent fuel in the pools so that hotter, newly discharged fuel would be surrounded by cooler, older spent fuel. Doing so would likely prevent a fire. The report also called for water-spray systems to fill up draining pools, but made this conditional on a cost-benefit analysis conducted by each plant.

Is reprocessing spent fuel the answer? While China, France, India, Japan, and Russia have favored reprocessing in order to recycle plutonium for new fuel, this has not solved the waste problem, because the resulting spent fuel is usually not further recycled. Instead, it is stored in spent-fuel pools.

Recycling proponents want ultimately to build a fleet of fast neutron reactors that could consume the plutonium and other fissionable material. But these reactors have experienced safety problems and are more expensive to operate than current reactors. Use of plutonium fuels also increases the risk of nuclear-weapons proliferation.

Several decades from now, reprocessing might offer a safe means of spent-fuel disposal. In the interim, the most promising method is to use dry storage casks, which, according to technical studies, provide up to 100 years of safe and secure storage.

But industry has expressed concern that each storage cask costs more than $1 million, and that a typical plant’s total costs thus could be tens of millions of dollars. The Alvarez study estimated a cost of $3-5 billion for the entire US reactor fleet, which is the largest in the world.

This would be the major one-time cost. After that, the costs would be a few hundred million dollars annually. For comparison, nuclear power in the US generates annual revenues exceeding $30 billion, whereas the cost of a severe accident can easily soar to billions of dollars, as the world is witnessing at Fukushima Daiichi.

Industry has also been concerned about minimizing workers’ exposure to radiation when they transfer spent fuel to casks. Moreover, there is a risk of further radiation exposure during the transfer of spent fuel from the casks to permanent storage.

To minimize this risk, casks should be developed that can easily be transferred to a secure interim storage facility while permanent repositories receive approval. We should not wait for the next Fukushima Daiichi to act on reducing the risks of spent fuel.

Charles D. Ferguson, a physicist and nuclear engineer, is the president of the Federation of American Scientists and the author of the forthcoming book Nuclear Energy: What Everyone Needs to Know.

Are larger earthquakes a sign of the times? Seismologists debate whether the recent spate of megaquakes is a statistical fluke or something more.

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110414/ ... 1.241.html
Beginning in late 2004, a flurry of massive, tsunami-spawning earthquakes have rocked the world, first slamming Indonesia, then Chile and most recently Japan. Temblors that size are rare indeed: only 7 quakes as large or larger than 8.8 — the magnitude of last February's Chilean event — have occurred since 1900.

So what does it mean that three of those seven shocks have happened almost within the span of six years? While some scientists argue that these 'megaquakes' could be the vanguard of an extended outburst of strong seismic events, many others suggest that the apparent cluster of recent temblors is nothing more than a statistical fluke.

The recent spate of far-flung quakes is remarkably similar to a cluster that occurred in the middle of the last century, says Charles Bufe, a seismologist retired from the US Geological Survey (USGS) in Denver, Colorado. The seismic events in that supposed grouping, consisting of 3 magnitude 9 or higher temblors, struck Kamchatka, then Chile and then Alaska within a 12-year interval. The odds of quakes that large occurring randomly within such a short time span is only four per cent, Bufe noted today at the annual meeting of the Seismological Society of America in Memphis, Tennessee.

In an update to an analysis first published in June 2005, Bufe and colleague David Perkins, a USGS geophysicist also in Denver, argue that the most recent round of large temblors may mark the beginning of a new global outbreak of megaquakes. According to their model, Bufe says, the probability of another quake of magnitude 9 or larger striking in the next 6 years is about 63 per cent. "There's now an increased hazard situation for these very large earthquakes," he notes.

It's an ominous warning considering what scientists are now reporting about the monumental forces behind the 9.0 Tohoku quake, which wreaked devastation on Japan on 11 March. At the meeting, researchers revealed that the main shock ruptured a previously locked seismic interface more than 250 kilometres long and 175 kilometres wide. Although most of the quake's energy was released in the first 2 minutes, several aftershocks — many of them magnitude 6.4 or larger — occurred in the 20 minutes or so that followed. Altogether, that temblor and its aftershocks ruptured areas that had previously slipped in five separate quakes, the researchers say. As a result, the entire northern portion of Honshu, Japan's largest island, moved about 1 meter toward the east, with one site near the temblor's epicentre sliding 5.4 meters horizontally and sinking 1.1 meters — a sudden subsidence that aggravated the damage from the tsunami that slammed the shore minutes later.

Yet the apparent clustering of such megaquakes, including the recent Indonesian, Chilean and Japanese events can be accounted for without a direct link, several scientists say. "When you run statistical tests, you can often get numbers that sound interesting," says Richard Aster, a geophysicist at the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology in Socorro. In this case, he suggests, the clumping could come down to the statistics of small sample sizes. Since 1900, there have been only 14 quakes larger than magnitude 8.5. And whereas modern seismology goes back only a little more than a century, the tectonic processes that generate major earthquakes unfold over hundreds or thousands of years, he adds.

Looking for patterns

In a separate analysis, Andrew Michael, a seismologist with USGS in Menlo Park, California, scrutinized databases of major quakes for evidence of clustering. Rather than use a single threshold for earthquake magnitude, he ran several statistical analyses using different magnitude thresholds, looking for patterns in quakes over various intervals ranging in length from months to years — and found nothing. "I've run a large number of tests and can't find any reason to reject the idea that clustering is random," he says.

That's not to say that major quakes don't stimulate further seismic activity. Barely 4 months after the December 2004 quake struck Indonesia, a magnitude 8.6 temblor occurred just down the coast — the result, scientists say, of the first quake's redistribution of stress in Earth's crust. Usually, the extent of such stress shifts are limited to the immediate region, says Aster. Although there is evidence that the ground motions induced by major temblors trigger small quakes thousands of kilometres away, there's no sign that such triggering occurs for large quakes, he adds.

Research published online 27 March in Nature Geoscience bolsters those notions. Tom Parsons, a seismologist also with the USGS in Menlo Park, and colleague Aaron Velasco, of the University of Texas at El Paso, analyzed the USGS earthquake database to see if temblors of magnitude 7 and higher might have triggered midsized quakes elsewhere in the world. Between 1979 and 2009, seismometers recorded 205 quakes with magnitudes above 7, Parsons notes. Although many of those quakes triggered local aftershocks in the day or so after the initial event, Parsons and Velasco found no corresponding increase in the frequency of distant quakes with magnitudes ranging between 5 and 7.

The team's analysis also suggests that stress redistribution to nearby faults after a major quake is limited to distances from the epicentre no more than two or three times the length ruptured by the original quake. That, says Parsons, means that even megaquakes shouldn't trigger large quakes more than a couple of thousand kilometres away.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

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RADIOECOLOGY: Fukushima Radiation Creates Unique Test of Marine Life's Hardiness

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6027/292.full
When radiation readings from water monitors around the leaking Fukushima Daiichi plant began rising this month, spiking at 7.5 million times Japan's legal limit for radioisotopes in public water, government agencies reacted sharply. For the first time in history, the Japanese government set a limit on radiation in seafood and began screening fish. India and China recently banned imports of food products from certain areas of Japan, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration began conducting its own radiation screens on seafood imports.

Monitoring food makes sense, according to radiation geochemist William Burnett of Florida State University in Tallahassee, but he warns against overreacting to the perceived risk of ocean contamination. “Stopping eating sushi, that's crazy,” he says, based on what is known about isotope accumulation in marine animals and reports on radiation in the sea near Fukushima. Although radioactive elements could spread quickly through the food chain, Burnett and others say it's unlikely that would lead to a significant risk for humans. What it could mean for ocean-dwelling organisms is another matter—one that scientists are eager to investigate.

Many marine species are good at absorbing radioactive isotopes from the water, and experts across the world are beginning to prioritize studies they'd like to do in Japan once the situation stabilizes. “It's another opportunity to study impact on the environment, and many countries will use this opportunity,” says marine radioecologist Bruno Fievet of the French Institute for Radiological Protection and Nuclear Safety (IRSN) in Cherbourg. “Probably we will see traces of this accident for many years,” he says.

Little is known about the impact of radioactivity on many marine organisms, in part because they are remarkably resistant. Fievet says that a deadly dose of radioactivity for crustaceans and mollusks is orders of magnitude larger than a lethal dose for humans, which makes it dangerous and inefficient for researchers to conduct lab experiments. Harming organisms in the lab, Fievet says, requires levels of radioactivity that are “very, very high compared to what is observed in the marine environment at Fukushima.”

The creatures' simple physiology and the salty environment also offer them some protection. Just as potassium iodide tablets can saturate the human thyroid and prevent radioactive iodine from binding, the abundant ocean salts reduce the absorption of radioactive ions by sea creatures.

At the same time, Fievet adds, just because there's no immediate hazard is “not a reason not to worry.” Water close to the plant contains particulate radioisotopes, including cesium-137 and iodine-131, which organisms can incorporate into their bodies through their skin or food. Cesium-137 is more worrisome because its 30-year half-life means that it will be around for many decades. The resulting internal dose could induce mutations, stunt growth, and cause reproductive defects. Some organisms are exceptional at taking up isotopes and concentrating them in their bodies. Larger organisms that eat them may receive a high dose of radiation all at once, possibly increasing the risk of harm.

In terms of cleaning up the ocean, however, this bioaccumulation could be a boon. Phytoplankton, the base of most marine food chains, can concentrate plutonium a million-fold as it sticks to the surface of their membranes. Larger organisms that eat phytoplankton can't assimilate plutonium, so they excrete it as concentrated fecal matter that sinks to the bottom of the ocean and away from the vast majority of marine life near the surface. Similarly, brown seaweed, a staple of miso soup and sushi bars, acts as an iodine sponge, concentrating the element 10,000-fold compared with the surrounding water. Some researchers have even proposed planting the ocean full of brown seaweed to soak up radioactive iodine, but Fievet says this idea has been more or less rejected because it would simply transfer the problem from water into seaweed.

Most researchers believe that in the end the ocean will take care of itself through its vast size. Off the coast of Japan, the sea floor drops quickly, providing a large dilution factor. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) reports that over a span from the coast to 31 kilometers out, radiation drops 1000-fold. After dilution, says marine biologist Nicholas Fisher of Stony Brook University in New York, added radiation quickly becomes indistinguishable from the natural background level. “The bit introduced by man is a drop in the bucket,” he says.

Fievet says that IRSN scientists have begun formulating studies they'd like to undertake with collaborators in Japan. U.S. radioecologists from a number of U.S. universities, the U.S. Department of Energy, and IAEA's Marine Environment Laboratories have also expressed interest in beginning long-term studies. “We are faced with a unique situation” in which an accident is having a direct impact on the sea, says Dominique Boust, director of IRSN's radioecology lab.

In the meantime, Fisher says, “While it's nice to know the isotope concentration in water, it's more critical to know what it is in marine organisms.” The National Research Institute of Fisheries Science in Japan has begun screening a number of species and has found elevated cesium-137 in a few fish. Even so, research from weapons testing and the Chernobyl accident found that large fish that accumulate cesium-137 excrete it over time. Compared with other toxins that humans put into the marine environment, researchers conclude, the danger to Japan's fish from the radiation spill is very low.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

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Amber G. wrote:Gerard, GP - What is the situation with spent fuel rods in India..? How good are dry storage facilities?
Amber, I will preface my remarks with a huge AFAIK, lest Sanku-ji types should get worked up.

Spent fuel is a very different beast in India than in Japan. Firstly, there is the recycled fuel (not saying where it came from) that has long-lived transuranics in it. You understand -- not the extracted recycles ( which are useful) but the rejected part of the recycles. These rejected nuclei are encased in a glass "entombment" and stashed away (not saying where). Then there is the BWR spent fuel. This was enriched to begin with, so it is routinely cooled (in cooling ponds) and then stashed away when the fast decays are over. This is the maal that folks here refer to as RGPoo. Then there are the remnant PHWR rods which were not Poo quality. These are also entombed. So, in principle, yes, India has a growing waste profile. I don't want Sanku-ji types to have a heart attack, so I will not go into quantity estimates. A good googler can figure it out.

So, bottom line, India does not have the same cooling pond structure as Japan. Hope this makes some here feel better.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by vina »

Sanku wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:full meltdown?
really?
Yes, as bad as Chernobyl (I am assuming that Chernobyl is full meltdown in common lexicon), now official, just that the physical appearance of failure is different. In Chernobyl it all went up in smoke, at Fukushima it all went down the drain into ground and ocean.
One tiny kerfuffle. Chernobyl was an uncontrolled Nuke reaction that went Kaboom! A true NUCLEAR accident. Fukushima NO uncontrolled nuke reaction, shut down properly, what failed was a secondary COOLING SYSTEM and a NON NUCLEAR accident.

A trifling difference, but a trifle all the same. But as Michelangelo said, but sir, it is the trifles which make the difference.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

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vina wrote:A trifling difference, but a trifle all the same. But as Michelangelo said, but sir, it is the trifles which make the difference.
Hah! you don't fool anyone. Your "anti-India" agenda is clear. Are you so ashamed of India that you quote an Italian artist? I am not surprised because you have probably been bribed by Quattorachi. In fact, I can *predict* that to be true.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by negi »

Sir that's a self goal. :wink:
Theo_Fidel

Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Don't most of the fuel import deals including for Kudankulam have a return to sender policy. If so our waste requirements is only from local Uranium production which is likely to remain very limited.

This is a question I have about Japan too, why they don't have a return to sender policy.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Don't most of the fuel import deals including for Kudankulam have a return to sender policy. If so our waste requirements is only from local Uranium production which is likely to remain very limited.
Not a fan of RGpoo I take it? May I recommend some fine lectures by one Mr. Cirincione?
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by ramana »

GP, You could have made your reply to AmberG without gratuitous refs to other members. The Admins are tired of the number of reports on by members. A lot of time has been spent on clearing the reports. Sio suggest cutting that out and stick to facts.
Thanks,
ramana

PS:
Vina no more pot shots.

Others you are all on watch.
Japan has an accident you guys want to commit hara kiri and get banned here!
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by vina »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Don't most of the fuel import deals including for Kudankulam have a return to sender policy. If so our waste requirements is only from local Uranium production which is likely to remain very limited.
Nope. India has the full right to reprocessing as per the 123. The only thing is that the fuel and everything that comes under it including reprocessed stuff has to be under IAEA safeguards.

That is precisely what gets the goat of the NPA grand Poobahs!
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Picture of Unit-3 Spent fuel pool. Quite a mess.

Image

One more pic. And that round thing is piping not fuel! Look at the condition of the rebar!

Image

Video of Unit-4 spent fuel pool. Looks hot & steamy!



Pic of dry cask. Really should be done ASAP for all plants.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by JwalaMukhi »

Prem wrote:
same should hold true for nuclear energy. To date nuclear energy is still one of the most viable and clean method of generating electricity. That is why the Obama administration is steadfast in maintaining its commitment to nuclear energy as an integral part of its broader energy policy. More importantly, America isn’t alone in its position. Accelerated growth in Asia, has dramatically driven up energy consumption in this region. Asian tigers have no choice but to pursue an energy policy which incorporates nuclear energy. With all this in mind I would have to argue for a long term bullish stance on uranium. I still think Uranium has room to drop in the short term and at worst will bottom out at $33lb, from there I see a bounce back.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/259120- ... ces-bounce

( Drop in Uranium prices is good news for importing country like India)
Here is the sublink from the above link.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/18/news/in ... r.fortune/
There it is. The debate is settled. The import nuclear today advocacy group shouldn't have any worries. But still, there seems to be uneasiness amongst import today advocacy group. Could it possibly be because the below statements are not fit for a mature democracy but more for a banana republic.
India is not nearly as dependent on nuclear energy, but both countries have so many deals in the pipeline that each would stand to lose a fair amount of money if plans stalled. India in particular, which just signed multi-billion dollar agreements with the U.S., has little choice but to continue.
{throw irrevocable resources into a venture, where it will not be possible to divest if situation warrants.}
Politics remains a veritable obstacle right now for the global nuclear industry, particularly in the U.S. and Europe. But Asian governments -- specifically those that tolerate less public debate than in the West -- can be counted on to move ahead as planned.
Do not know if it is flattering or a telling commentary.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

GuruPrabhu wrote:
Amber G. wrote:Gerard, GP - What is the situation with spent fuel rods in India..? How good are dry storage facilities?
Amber, I will preface my remarks with a huge AFAIK, lest
<snip>


So, bottom line, India does not have the same cooling pond structure as Japan. Hope this makes some here feel better.
GP , Thanks. Good info.
Got some additional from a nice paper from Argonne National Lab's library (written by P.K. Dey, fuel Reprocessing Division in BARC) .. pretty nicely written.
I am sure you know but I did not know things like:
- BWR (and TAPS) rods are zircaloy clad, but others are Al clad, and still others are carbide/stainless steel clad (Vinaji will have more insight of their thermal properties etc..:))
- Picture of a Dry casket being moved on a open bed of a truck gave the impression of lack (IMO) of a security.. I am sure things are more secure now. (Before 9/11 it was comparatively easy to get access inside an US reactor)
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by UBanerjee »

vina wrote:
Sanku wrote:
Yes, as bad as Chernobyl (I am assuming that Chernobyl is full meltdown in common lexicon), now official, just that the physical appearance of failure is different. In Chernobyl it all went up in smoke, at Fukushima it all went down the drain into ground and ocean.
One tiny kerfuffle. Chernobyl was an uncontrolled Nuke reaction that went Kaboom! A true NUCLEAR accident. Fukushima NO uncontrolled nuke reaction, shut down properly, what failed was a secondary COOLING SYSTEM and a NON NUCLEAR accident.

A trifling difference, but a trifle all the same. But as Michelangelo said, but sir, it is the trifles which make the difference.
Not to mention the Soviet government's reaction to Chernobyl was rather.... different (as in pathetic). That's what caused the real extent of the damage, allowing contaminated foods/milk to be consumed in large quantities, delayed evacuation, improper gear for workers dealing with the situation, lack of notification, ityaadi.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

^^^
This has been mentioned many times here..any good resource is worth reading to learn from Chernobyl

Tow good links are:
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/chernobyl/inf07.html
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Bookle ... rnobyl.pdf

Meanwhile:

Despite Fukushima, Manmohan bats for nuclear energy
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said he was convinced that nuclear energy would remain one of the “essential options” which all countries must keep in order to deal with problems such as climate change and energy security.

Asked during a meet with journalists, who had accompanied him to China and Kazakhstan, why the government was still keen on going ahead with nuclear power plants despite the Fukushima incident, the Prime Minister said that despite the nervousness over extensive use of nuclear energy even for peaceful purposes, “I am convinced that when all is said and done, when cool headed discussions take place about the future of energy, what are the problems with coal, what are the problems of with other hydrocarbons, in terms of their impact on climate change,” there would be no reconsideration about the role of nuclear energy.
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Post by vina »

Cross Post.
Theo_Fidel wrote:Yes NSG waiver.

The CANDU were essentially given to us as free, a gift from Canada. GOI accepted. Also note we may have bought but have yet to pay and pay we surely will. This is garbage about leveraging buying power. If we had leveraged our power we would have some control over the designs.
Err. Today, CANDU is touted as the next best thing to sliced bread and the former AERB dude says we know CANDU onree, so we CAN-Do.

And of course, "shath pratishat indigenous onree" boosters will say, all indigenous onree. So go with CANDU based AHWR and we have patent falsehoods such as CANDU cannot have a LOCA,meltdown , etc, etc is peddled about.

Err. Candu was originally CAN-DOO onree. Please google for NRX incident and that will knock the bottom out of the No can LOCA, No can Meltdown dudes!. In fact CAN-DOO became a dignified CANDU only after the NRX incident and the fixes from the learning of that.

Yes. Old adage. YinJin Ear Ring improves only by experience and actual doing and knowledge base build up. The Fukushima disaster is a fundamental lesson in Nuke Engineering. I think we will see totally failsafe designs like Pebble Bed and other brand new ones see increased importance and investments and not putting more lipstick on legacy pigs like BWR/PHWR etc.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by ramana »

AmberG, One of my first jobs was to perform stress analysis of one of those casks for truck transport. Used shell theory to calculate the stresses in case of an impact accident.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ I am sure you may know that but ... One picture I saw (older pic), with cask tied on the truck platform (with something like "Buri nazar ka muh kala" sign in the back of truck for extra security) did not look that secure..:)
Last edited by Amber G. on 17 Apr 2011 19:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

x-post
Now from "an eminent Indian columnist" :
What do social scientists Romila Thapar and Ramachandra Guha, dancers Leela Samson and Malavika Sarukkai, former bureaucrats-diplomats S.P. Shukla and Nirupam Sen, retired Navy chief L. Ramdas, writers Arundhati Roy and Nayantara Sahgal, scientists M.V. Ramana and P.M. Bhargava, artists Krishen Khanna and Vivan Sundaram, and former vice-chancellors Mushirul Hasan and Deepak Nayyar, have in common?
Also a few Brf postors who will brand any body, who as much as question their point of view, as anti-indian?
he answer is, concern about the safety of nuclear power, highlighted by the still-unfolding disaster at Fukushima in Japan. This impelled these eminent individuals to sign a statement demanding a thorough, independent review of India's nuclear power programme, and pending it, a moratorium on further nuclear projects.

The statement (available at cndpindia.org, sacw.net) saw people of different ideological persuasion coming together, including former Atomic Energy Regulatory Board Chairman A. Gopalakrishnan and Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament and Peace activists (including myself). Even Indian Institute of Science (Bangalore) director Prof. P. Balaram signed up, a rare thing for a top scientist to do.

This appeal comes just as two workers at Fukushima have died. {Described as dead men walking, perhaps?} Nuclear power zealots had predicted that the accidents wouldn't harm plant employees, leave alone the public. {Not only that, they have dined the postors here with 1000 mSv dose, perhaps, according to one }

Fukushima's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO), admits that three other employees have suffered severe (? :eek: ? ) radiation burns { :eek: all that with some radiation dose!!} and many others have been exposed to radiation. The public is at risk. Radionuclides have contaminated milk, vegetables and fish in Fukushima and nearby. {And 100,0000,000,000 have died in Cashemer alone }

Radiation levels at the plant are 1,000 millisieverts an hour { :eek: }, whereas the highest annual permissible dose for employees is 30 millisieverts. { I am sure, these guys also think that Bq is a banana from Uranus} Water and steam have been released, containing iodine-131, caesium-137 and strontium-90. These have been detected thousands of kilometres away. { And cosmic rays billions of light years can be detected here on earth }

Iodine-31 concentrates in the thyroid, caesium-137 in many other tissues, and strontium-90 in bones.

Fukushima's health damage will be revealed not through early deaths, but through slow, virtually endless low-radiation exposure, which produces cancers. Thanks to early evacuation, the Fukushima death-toll won't be as high as Chernobyl's (estimated at 34,000 to 70,000 deaths). { Not 985,000? :shock: - lower number estimated is less than 100, BTW by some}

However, the reactors contain 40 times the caesium inventory of Chernobyl. If only a tenth of this is released, its impact would be four times greater than Chernobyl's. {We know math!! :shock: }

According to estimates {of course, estimated by XXXX} based on data from a UN agency, Fukushima has already released iodine-131 equal to 20% of that released from Chernobyl and half as much caesium-137. { Really ??}

Fukushima happened not because of the earthquake and tsunami, but because these triggered mishaps in reactors already vulnerable to catastrophic accidents. All reactor designs can undergo core meltdowns. {described by some here as "almost virgin"} Natural calamities only make these more likely.

Fukushima's reactors weren't designed for high-magnitude earthquakes and tsunamis. Their primary containment, the vessel holding the reactor, was weak.

Besides, spent fuel was stored in the reactor building. Unlike reactors, spent-fuel pools don't have reinforced structures. The roof of Reactor 4 spent-fuel pool was blown off. The spent-fuel got heated and the water boiled off, releasing radioactivity. India's Tarapur reactors have the same spent-fuel storage design.

The Fukushima crisis still remains uncontrolled. Three reactors suffered a partial core meltdown, one to the extent of 70%. Four of the six reactors, poisoned by seawater, must be scrapped.

The immediate challenge is to keep the reactors cool and seal the cracks that water is leaking through. TEPCO claims its sealing efforts have finally succeeded. How reliable the seals are remains to be seen.

Seawater radiation levels near Fukushima were millions of times higher than permissible. If the Fukushima staff is evacuated, the reactors could undergo a full meltdown.

..... Its denials are unconvincing.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has ordered a thorough review of India's nuclear installations, especially on their capacity to withstand earthquakes and tsunamis. But Nuclear Power Corporation Chairman S.K. Jain boasts: "We have got total knowledge and design of the seismic activities" and DAE reactors are planned for "[the] worst seismic activities and tsunamis."

However, Dr. Singh said ....

This was a slap in the face of the DAE, now the laughing-stock of the global scientific community..... :eek:

India must abandon plans for multiple-reactor ...., such as Areva's European Pressurised Reactors, planned for Jaitapur in Maharashtra.

....

<snip>.
From: India must put nuclear power on hold
By Praful Bidwai
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

UBanerjee wrote: Not to mention the Soviet government's reaction to Chernobyl was rather.... different (as in pathetic). That's what caused the real extent of the damage, allowing contaminated foods/milk to be consumed in large quantities, delayed evacuation, improper gear for workers dealing with the situation, lack of notification, ityaadi.
Whats different here? Give it 10 years, we shall see.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by GuruPrabhu »

Amber G. wrote: I am sure you know but I did not know things like:
- BWR (and TAPS) rods are zircaloy clad, but others are Al clad, and still others are carbide/stainless steel clad (Vinaji will have more insight of their thermal properties etc..:))
The most important property of zirconium is that it has a very small absorption cross section for thermal neutrons. It is converted to an alloy (using tin, iron ityadi) to improve its mechanical strength and corrosion resistance. Carbide was proposed for PFBR because it increases the breeding ratio as compared to oxide. This concept has been demonstrated by IGCAR. However, the final decision is to stay with oxide due to cost of fabrication. Research is underway to even try metallic fuels to get the ultimate breeding ratio. I am not sure about Al cladding. It may be because Al has a very small activation cross section. For example, it is the preferred material for making structures for holding fuel rods (what is used in Fukushima spent fuel tanks?)
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ Thanks. I like brf, for educational posts like the above. The Al was used (according to the paper mentioned before) for research reactors (eg Druva ?).

Meanwhile we all should also keep in mind... (Sorry if I have typo's in sanskrit)

यस्य नास्ति स्वयं प्रज्ञा शास्त्रं तस्य करोति किम्।
लोचनाभ्यां विहीनस्य दर्पणः किं करिष्यति॥
...
विद्वानेवोपदेष्टव्यो नाविद्वांस्तु कदाचन ।
वानरानुपदिश्याथ स्थानभ्रष्टा ययुः खगाः ॥
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

One more apt thing for Japan in general ..

रत्नैर्महार्हैस्तुतुषुर्न देवाः
न भेजिरे भीमविषेण भीतिं ।
सुधां विना न प्रययुर्विरामम्
न निश्चितार्थाद्विरमन्ति धीराः ॥

(Rough translation: (After samudra-manthan by Deva's) Neither price-less jewels made them stop, nor poison made them afraid ...Similarly any setback (or calamity) should not discourage people to rebuild or keep doing what it right...
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

There is no Neel Kanth available BTW, so good to remember that we are not gods.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

TEPCO says that the crisis at Fukushima will take 6-9 months to resolve. Does it also mean that they will keep spewing radioactivity at the current rate for that time frame?

==============

More on above, it seems there is a overwhelming need to keep the "we are not the same as Chernobyl" facade.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/world ... japan.html
But officials declined to identify the material that they would use to cover the damaged reactor buildings, saying only that it would be similar to the tough fabric used to wrap buildings under construction and would not be comparable to the heavy concrete shell that entombed the damaged reactor at Chernobyl. The company warned that the temporary cover could be damaged in a typhoon.
Who asked them to compare hain-ji? Cant get the guilt out of their minds they cant.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ We all should keep in mind the following, whether it is NYTimes or anybody, when we write or say something. I think it is very apt. How much knowledge and commonsense in Sanskrit slokas..

को देशः कानि मित्राणि-कःकालःकौ व्ययागमौ ।
कश्चाहं का च मे शक्ति-रितिचिन्त्यं मुहुर्मुहु ॥

Rough translation: (Before one says something, one must ask/ponder):
"Which is my country? Who are my friends? What time we live in? How costly (worthy) this will be? What are the agendas? Who am I? What's my strength (knowledge/expertise)? An intelligent person thinks about this every second (before making a thesis)

Meanwhile:
For perspective:
Image
The above is a power plant (explosion due to a CH4 leak).. not much different from Fukushima's H2..
Also see the robots..

And Here is NISA report with lot of data - which may answer some of the questions asked before:
They add values from many sensors: http://www.meti.go.jp/press/2011/04/...10417002-2.pdf

Added later: If one is not fluent in Sanskrit, one can cut and paste it in google and translate it. (Was amused to see that one of the top google search for sanskrit sloka results points to my own post in BRF 8)
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by ramana »

Folks thanks for restoring decorum and not reporting posts for a couple of days.

ramana
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by NRao »

Amber G. wrote:x-post
Now from "an eminent Indian columnist" :

.....................................................................

However, Dr. Singh said ....

This was a slap in the face of the DAE, now the laughing-stock of the global scientific community..... :eek:

India must abandon plans for multiple-reactor ...., such as Areva's European Pressurised Reactors, planned for Jaitapur in Maharashtra.

....

<snip>
From: India must put nuclear power on hold
By Praful Bidwai
Considering the fact that around 60,000 people have been dieing every year for the past few decades (in the US) and that about 250,000 / year are injured due to traffic/transportation related incidents, I think we all should stop driving.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ Actually as a very famous physicist once said to me, there is 100% certainty that a a birth will result (eventually) in a death. So we should stop having children.
(Thing to note: NTLH model when counts death, the time span is the whole life .. that is some time in the next few decades one will contact cancer)
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by amit »

Ban lifted on more Fukushima milk shipments
The government lifted its ban on shipment of raw milk from another 25 municipalities in Fukushima Prefecture on Saturday as radioactivity levels continued to decline.

The ban remains in place for six towns and villages within a 20-km radius of the crippled Fukushima No. 1 power plant and five areas around 30 km from the plant, including Minamisoma and Iitate, they said.

The officials said radioactive substances in the raw milk from the 25 municipalities, including the cities of Fukushima and Koriyama, have been below permissable levels as outlined under the Food Sanitation Law for three consecutive weeks.

The government, which imposed the ban on March 21, said a maximum level of 27 becquerels of radioactive iodine per kilogram was found in raw milk at six distribution centers, well below the permissible level of 300 becquerels.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by amit »

While most of the discussion on this thread has been focused on the nuclear plant, the report below gives a sense of perspective about the tragedy in Japan. The point to note is that despite what experts like Purefool Bidwai are saying, nobody has died from the nuclear accident.

Yet, Data show tsunami the killer, elderly the most vulnerable in disaster.
SENDAI (Kyodo) -- Over half of those killed in three northeastern Japanese prefectures by the catastrophic March 11 earthquake and tsunami were aged 65 or older, while over 95 percent of deaths reported in Miyagi Prefecture alone resulted from drowning under the tsunami, fresh data showed Sunday.

Of the 9,112 killed in Iwate, Miyagi and Fukushima pefectures whose ages are confirmed, 4,990, or 54.8 percent, were aged 65 or older, according to the data Kyodo tallied based on a list of victims by the National Police Agency.
Separate data compiled by the police in Miyagi Prefecture, meanwhile, showed that out of 8,015 deaths confirmed through April 10 in the prefecture, 95.8 percent or 7,676, resulted from drowning.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by amit »

Meanwhile, an update on the nuclear plant:

New cooling systems may be installed outside Fukushima reactor buildings
TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Tokyo Electric Power Co. is considering installing circulating water cooling systems for nuclear reactors and spent fuel storage pools outside the reactor buildings at its crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, sources familiar with the matter said Saturday.

The new systems would cool nuclear fuel inside the reactors and spent fuel pools in a stable manner. They would involve heat exchangers and circulation pumps to drain reactor coolant water from the containment buildings, cooling it with seawater and then sending it back to the reactors, the sources said.
TEPCO appears to have already placed orders for dozens of gasketed plate heat exchangers -- each measuring 3 meters high, 1 meter wide and 2 meters long -- for such systems, the sources said.

Image
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by amit »

Sanku wrote:Cant get the guilt out of their minds they cant.
The Fukushima incident was a result of an unprecedented Black Swan event. So I'm not too sure what guilt has to do with this? Guilt is usually associated with a deliberate act - in this case it would be a deliberate act of negligence - which led to the accident. I just hope nobody it trying to imply that.

However, Chernobyl was due to serious negligence on the part of the folks who were in charge of the plant and the immediate aftermath of the accident. If anything IMO, the guilt should be on the Chernobyl side.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

There was nothing unexpected about Fukushima. In fact they had been very lucky so far. Cant always be lucky, so Fukushima. The question is now on whats next.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Japan+s ... story.html

Japan says 28 plant workers got high radiation doses
Of the 300 people at the site, which was hit by an earthquake and tsunami a month ago, 28 have accumulated doses of more than 100 millisieverts (mSv), the International Atomic Energy Agency said, citing data from Japanese authorities.

"No worker has received a dose above Japan's guidance value of 250 mSv for restricting the exposure of emergency workers," the Vienna-based IAEA said on Friday.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by arnab »

Sanku wrote:There was nothing unexpected about Fukushima.
[/quote]

Guess by that logic, those 24,000 people who died in the tsunami - just had to... because there was nothing unexpected about it. They were plain lucky. 50,000 could have died.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

arnab wrote:
Sanku wrote:There was nothing unexpected about Fukushima.
Guess by that logic, those 24,000 people who died in the tsunami - just had to... because there was nothing unexpected about it. They were plain lucky. 50,000 could have died.[/quote]

The fact that Tusnami's will hit Japan and cause havoc is not unexpected, yes.

The Japanese live with this danger -- the question is in the above context, what decisions are meaningful and which not. Do they take steps which increase their exposure? Or manage it better. -- That is the only question they can work on.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by arnab »

Sanku wrote: The fact that Tusnami's will hit Japan and cause havoc is not unexpected, yes.

The Japanese live with this danger -- the question is in the above context, what decisions are meaningful and which not. Do they take steps which increase their exposure? Or manage it better. -- That is the only question they can work on.
So by that logic - a meaningful decision for the Japanese would be not build trains because 3 trains were washed away. right?
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by amit »

Sanku wrote:http://www.theprovince.com/news/Japan+s ... story.html

Japan says 28 plant workers got high radiation doses
Of the 300 people at the site, which was hit by an earthquake and tsunami a month ago, 28 have accumulated doses of more than 100 millisieverts (mSv), the International Atomic Energy Agency said, citing data from Japanese authorities.

"No worker has received a dose above Japan's guidance value of 250 mSv for restricting the exposure of emergency workers," the Vienna-based IAEA said on Friday.
Read from another angle that article means that despite what has been described as "full reactor meltdown," none of the people at the site have got a radiation dosage more, or even 50 per cent of what is the "guidance value" of exposure for emergency workers. This from "international experts" and not from the "dodgy" Japanese themselves.
There was nothing unexpected about Fukushima. In fact they had been very lucky so far. Cant always be lucky, so Fukushima. The question is now on whats next.
That may be but that doesn't explain why they should be racked with guilt for an act of nature which crippled a 40 year old plant (meaning that plant has been running for 40 years). And yes, I know it sounds like a broken record but not a single person has died yet from the Fukushima accident. Around 30 people died within the first few days in Chernobyl. And depending on whom you believe, any number between 52 to 983,000 people have died due to Chernobyl till date.
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

arnab wrote:
Sanku wrote: The fact that Tusnami's will hit Japan and cause havoc is not unexpected, yes.

The Japanese live with this danger -- the question is in the above context, what decisions are meaningful and which not. Do they take steps which increase their exposure? Or manage it better. -- That is the only question they can work on.
So by that logic - a meaningful decision for the Japanese would be not build trains because 3 trains were washed away. right?
Not by THAT logic, possibly by lahori variety, cant say.

By THAT logic, they should consider whether the location of lines should be nearer to coast or further inland. They should consider what are the costs of building trains which can stand a earthquake and if too expensive consider buses instead (a trade-off can be considered, have elevated rails, what not)

But as far as I know, trains when hit by Tusnami don't leak radiation, so just perhaps a "train != Nuclear plant", it may be difficult, but perhaps that thought could also be considered?

That for the SAME TSUNAMI, DIFFERENT CASES, need DIFFERENT TREATMENT?
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Re: 2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

Post by Sanku »

Wiki-leaks on "paid experts"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/ ... PL20110418

Exclusive: U.S. nuclear regulator a policeman or salesman?
The cables, obtained by WikiLeaks and provided to Reuters by a third party, shed light on the way in which U.S. embassies have pulled in the NRC when lobbying for the purchase of equipment made by Westinghouse and other domestic manufacturers.

While the use of diplomats to further American commercial interests is nothing new, it is far less common for regulators to be acting in even the appearance of a commercial capacity, braising concerns about a potential conflict of interest.

The subject is particularly sensitive at a time when there are concerns about whether the operator of the stricken Fukushima nuclear power plant, was designed by U.S. conglomerate General Electric Co., had been properly supervised by the NRC's equivalent in Japan.
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