Libyan War : Political and strategic aspects

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joshvajohn
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by joshvajohn »

The US has used cluster munitions in Afghanistan and Iraq and in a strike on suspected militants in Yemen in 2009.

When asked about the munitions at a news conference in Berlin, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said she was not aware of the specific use of cluster or other indiscriminate weapons in Misrata but also said: ''I'm not surprised by anything that Colonel Gaddafi and his forces do.''

She added: ''That is worrying information. And it is one of the reasons the fight in Misrata is so difficult, because it's at close quarters, it's in among urban areas and it poses a lot of challenges to both NATO and to the opposition.''

The cluster munitions were visible in the form of what appeared to be at least three 120-millimetre mortar rounds that burst in the air over the city, scattering high-explosive bomblets below. The same munitions were fired yesterday, amid a fierce barrage of tank, artillery and rocket fire from Gaddafi forces.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/gaddafi-for ... z1JiQVsLkc


When USA or NATO throws a bomb on Civilians then all the nations shout. USA used cluster bombs against military forces in Iraq and also terrorists in Afganistan. There were a few mistakes by US forces in these places. The primary purpose was not to kill all the civilians though civilian casualities were there at minimal level. But Gaddafi uses Cluster bombs on his own people killing the same people who want changes. This regime is at war with his own people. Even if many in his own tribe wants him, he cannot be there any more because he has murdered many of his own people. Those govts that are killing their own people cannot say anymore such activities their internal matters. Such regimes which are in power for long time either accept the changes that their own people are bringing or go out. If they kill their own they will be brought to justice by force. Eliminating Gaddafi should be one of the options by rebels and others as it may reduce the bloodshed.

Misurata doctor counting the cost of Gaddafi's cluster bombs
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... bombs.html

Libya: 23 civilians killed in Gaddafi rocket attack on residential district of Misurata, rebels says
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -says.html
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Cosmo_R »

jimmyray wrote:This is perhaps OT, but this could be a reason for the cautious response of our Govt. to Middle East revolutions. It is just a matter of time before Pukis and their supporters in West use ‘Arab Spring’ pretext to foment trouble in the valley

Young Kashmiri activists yearn for an ‘Arab Spring’ - and more Western attention
You got it. There are several articles on the upcoming bid by the Palestine Authority to ask for UN membership in September 2011. If it passes, you can bet your bottom dollar the APHC is going to do the same to embarrass our already embarrassed 'netas' by asking for an independent J&K.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/world ... nians.html
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by brihaspati »

Sure! But our netas in their infinite wisdom had always supported Palestinian statehood - isn't it? Surely they had their reasons! Why embarrassed now?
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Cosmo_R »

brihaspati wrote:Sure! But our netas in their infinite wisdom had always supported Palestinian statehood - isn't it? Surely they had their reasons! Why embarrassed now?
You may well be right. Maybe they won't be embarrassed by the APHC demanding UN Membership if the Palestinians get it.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by UBanerjee »

When USA or NATO throws a bomb on Civilians then all the nations shout. USA used cluster bombs against military forces in Iraq and also terrorists in Afganistan. There were a few mistakes by US forces in these places. The primary purpose was not to kill all the civilians though civilian casualities were there at minimal level. But Gaddafi uses Cluster bombs on his own people killing the same people who want changes. This regime is at war with his own people.
Makes sense, but its easier for many to do an ==.

Though it is worth keeping in mind that bombing is not just something despots do.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by CRamS »

joshvajohn,

Please shove that unadulterated balderdash where it belongs. OK, so the US & its lackers are a tad better than tin pots like Qaddafi, they kill slightly fewer civilians and call it "collateral damage", while Qaddafi goes for the kill. But don't forget, US's big prize are the oil fields in Benghaazi, and by the way US supports democracy onlee. Give me a f^&*%ing break. There are no good guys in the mid east tin pots Vs whites dog fight.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Pranav »

brihaspati wrote:Sure! But our netas in their infinite wisdom had always supported Palestinian statehood - isn't it? Surely they had their reasons! Why embarrassed now?
Palestinian statehood is the goal for everybody including Israel itself. What Israel does not want is the "one state solution".
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Singha »

In my opinion, what this is about is to eliminate China from the Mediterranean. China has extensive energy investments and construction investments in Libya. They are looking to Africa as a future energy source.

BR had theorized that part of the wave of 'revolutions' was C.E.R (cap eliminate rollback) the deepening chinese incursion into african political elites and mineral resource deals. the new govts could easily pick apart the old deals due to corruption and under new munna-certified bidding process...oops..the western constortiums would get control of the meat, while the chinese get kicked out with the discredited old elites.

there are some other places in west africa and central africa where the chinese have moved in; look for unrest and rebellion there once libya is wrapped up.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by khwaja »

We're diverting off topic it seems.

However, it's quite clear that our fence-sitting mentality has made us lose out on an opportunity to show our capability for decision making in the world arena. India's foreign policy is too "goody-goody" to make any real change. We're atmost,.. irrelevant in the geopolitical space. Infact, India is disproportionately weak in this arena, keeping in mind India's huge diaspora across the world, especially the middle east and Africa. We want to remain Iran's Millenia-old-friend & become US' partner of the century. We want Israel to be free of terrorism and Palestine to be free of occupation. India would become irrelevant if it continues to be weak in its opinions, wanting in action, and continues to lip-service causes across the world. The idealism of the NAM period was an expression of our national character. Today's non-alignment seems to be a result of weak leadership, and indecision in the echelons of power.

@ Pranav: India pays lip-service to Palestine, condemns "all forms of terrorism", has a burgeoning military and strategic relationship with Israel, and calls itself a "great friend" of the Arab world. Don't we remember those friends who always hide when they are in need of action?
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Neshant »

Any word on what happened to the 35 billion dollars of Libya's funds parked in America that US govt confiscated ?

Its a risky business for a foreign country leaving money in the US with banking goons and corporate thieves all around. At their urging, assets can be frozen and vanish overnight.

Not too long ago, UAE wisened up and withdrew all its physical gold in storage in vaults in London. I never trust any gold ETF which claims to have its gold stored in some far away vault in London, Switzerland.. etc while it sells paper receipts of those gold deposits to investors.

Protect your money at all costs and keep it close to you.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by devesh »

Neshant,

welcome back! :)
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by jimmyray »

This is a very old article published in 1997, few years after Libya started building this huge pipeline network also known as manmade Underground River system. This system is now almost ready. Some are now speculating that Gaddafi is using this network to move troops. If there is any element of truth in this speculation then defeating Gaddafi's army is going to be even more difficult.

Mysterious Libyan Pipeline Could Be Conduit for Troops

A part of the article is quoted here. For full article please visit the url.
By RAYMOND BONNER
LONDON -- In the sandy expanse of Libya's desert, where temperatures climb above 100 degrees on a winter's day, an army of more than 12,000 foreign workers is toiling on one of the world's most audacious and mysterious public works projects.

Drilling rigs rise 60 feet in the air, their gigantic hammers and powerful drilling bits boring more than a quarter mile into the earth. Hundreds of trucks haul 75-ton sections of concrete pipe, 13 feet in diameter, which are then lowered into place by huge cranes and buried beneath the sand.

Libya calls it the Great Man-Made River Project, and says the gargantuan lattice work of underground pipes, wells and pumping stations will someday make the desert bloom from Tripoli to Kufra.

But in separate interviews, three engineers working on the $25-billion project said the official explanation was improbable or incomplete. They said they suspect the system of underground pipes and reservoirs, which is being built largely with American equipment, has some clandestine military purpose.
"If Saddam Hussein said he was building a 4-meter pipe to 100 miles from Kuwait, 100 miles from Iran, 100 miles from Turkey, for the purpose of moving water, would you believe him?" asked one European engineer.

A tunnel of pipes 4 meters, or 13 feet, in diameter is large enough to accommodate military vehicles, even a rail line. When the project is completed, Libya will have more than 2,000 miles of tunnel stretching from Tunisia to Egypt. In the south, it will reach almost to Sudan and Chad, a country with which Libya has tense relations.

Every 50 to 60 miles along the pipeline, huge underground storage areas are being constructed, and the engineers said they are more elaborate than would be needed for holding water. The facilities, made of reinforced concrete, would be suitable for bivouacking troops or storing military supplies, including poison gas, the engineers said.

While the system of pipelines does not by itself change the military balance in the region, it provides Col. Moammar Gadhafi, the Libyan leader, extensive opportunities to conceal his activities from the American spy satellites that pass overhead each day.

"This is the first real evidence of something which has been suspected for several years," Paul Beaver, a defense and intelligence analyst with Jane's Defense Weekly, said when told of the engineers' descriptions of the project. "Gadhafi seems to have taken a leaf out of Kim Il Sung's book and created a potential military arsenal underground," he added, referring to the late North Korean dictator.

North Korea has an elaborate underground military system with storage facilities and tunnel routes for vehicles and troops. Beaver, a former British army officer with intelligence expertise, said that the tunnel system would allow Gadhafi to conceal troop movements, gain an element of surprise over an enemy, and protect his own troops from pre-emptive strikes.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by jimmyray »

A map and some more info on Libya’s Great manmade river system is available here:
http://www.goumbook.com/4729/libyas-gre ... r-project/

NATO warned against strikes on Libya's 'great river'
http://www.euractiv.com/en/cap/nato-war ... ews-503834
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by joshvajohn »

Gaddafi’s men ‘use rape as weapon of war’

Read more: http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/77824,new ... z1JoipfUfZ


€6 billion of Gaddafi’s frozen assets might go to aiding rebels
http://rt.com/news/line/2011-04-18/

http://www.channel4.com/news/uk-holding ... ian-crisis

There should be next or another UN resolution warning to Gaddafi's regime. It should demand Gaddafi to stop attacking Misurata's civilians immediately. If he does not stop or listen then next UN resolution should be passed to protect Misurata by all means including sending any troups.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by abhischekcc »

How long will the same old lies continue? Have they accused Q's men of killing babies in their incubators yet?

In the first gulf war, the daughter of Kuwaiti ambassdor to US gave a tearful testimony that the Iraqi troops pulled out babies from the incubators.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Arya Sumantra »

joshvajohn wrote:There should be next or another UN resolution warning to Gaddafi's regime. It should demand Gaddafi to stop attacking Misurata's civilians immediately. If he does not stop or listen then next UN resolution should be passed to protect Misurata by all means including sending any troups.
If SF sent by other countries do not want to wear a uniform then others have equal right to deny them the benefit of "civilians". Cry as much as you want.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Pranav »

An interview with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi - http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/an- ... story.html

A good read.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Singha »

all would be peace and quiet now if Qadhafi had a nuclear weapon and chose to test it somewhere in the desert.

uk-france would disappear in 5 mins, followed by their mentor and leader...

he would probably still be a munna and be hailed as a stabilizing force and reformer after crushing the benghazi uprising which would be denounced as a AQ plot. the very same man , the very same regime.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by abhischekcc »

Latest from Libya:

1. UN SG calls for a cease fire, but asks only Libya to stop fighting.

2. Misrata about to be liberated by Q. This is the last city in western Libya. Once this is done, Q will be free from the need to fight on two fronts, and will be in a position to kick out the 'rebels' in the east faster.

3. The situation is so bad for the western backed 'rebels' that now they have started organizing an evacuation in Misrata. No surprises that the biggest trouble maker in the world - UK, is the one organizing this evacuation of 'refugees' :P. Looks like another Kunduz. They will evacuate their idiotic 'rebels' and not refugees. http://www.channel4.com/news/uk-leads-m ... bya-crisis

4. Situation in the east is essentially a stalemate. 'Rebels' advanced 40 kms from Benghazi as a sandstorm lifted, allowing Nato planes to operate again. This is likely change after Misrata falls - it will essentially be game over, all victory to Q.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by abhischekcc »

Q forces won Brega earlier this month. That was when the dominoes started falling against the west/KSA. Because Brega is one of the two large oil ports. The other port is Tobruk, but the pipeline that leads from the oil wells to the port is too long and vulnerable. It can easily be cut off.

IOW, capturing Brega was crucial in preventing a de facto partition of the country, as it denies the 'rebels' the oxygen of petrodollars.

After Misrata, it is Benghazi, and then Tobruk.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by abhischekcc »

Can you believe this non sense:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 701385.ece
NATO hopes that, during the military stalemate, economic and political pressure will build on Col. Qadhafi, sparking further uprisings, defections from his regime or even an assassination by a close aide.
If the western grand plan was sit and wait for something to happen, then it is the height of incompetence ever imaginable. :eek: :eek: :eek:

What a bunch of imbeciles!
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Virupaksha »

imbeciles, incompetence??

How many of the "western" people were killed? How many western homes have been destroyed?? Whose lives have been taken?? Whose homes and possessions have been destroyed??

I get to test my shining new kits and fund some nonwhite-nonwhite violence while sipping the finest single malt. The chinese have been removed from Libya. What more do I want? Why do I care if some muslim nonwhites die?

Do you see me shouting the same in Bahrain where same levels of massacres are taking place?? I have a very important base there and I will keep it even if all the shias are killed.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Pranav »

A month in the March of Folly

Col. Qadhafi must be wondering today if he did the right thing by giving up his dreams of nuclear deterrence at the behest of the West. Instead, he embarked on a mission to please the countries now bombing him, sent his children to be educated in the U.S. and the U.K, gave those countries preferential oil deals, and, in the process, built his own economy. In 2010, Libya held the highest per capita income in Africa (approximately $12,000), afforded its citizens free housing and had a very low rate of inflation. It was also a remarkably liberal country, one of the few Arab nations without the presence of the al-Qaeda. As he sits in his Bab el Aziza compound, friendless amidst the ruins of his country, pondering this, it must be hoped that the NATO alliance will also pause its bombings to think of what they are paving the way for — given that the rebels it has relentlessly supported have no popularity in other parts of the country and can never hope to control the whole of Libya.

http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/19/stories ... 981100.htm
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Pranav »

Pranav wrote:An interview with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi - http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/an- ... story.html
An excerpt:
“To be honest, Obama is different from the British and the French. It was big shock at the beginning when the Americans did attack Libya. Nobody in the Middle East, and especially in Libya, thought that one day President Obama will attack Libya or an Arabic country. Because he came after Iraq and after Afghanistan, his name is Barack Hussein, he is of African origin, he is a peace man. And all of sudden he is sending hundreds of Tomahawk [missiles] to Libya. It was a big shock, a big shock for everybody, even for my father. The second one, that you are attacking us exactly like Bush attacked Iraq, because of false reports. It’s rumors. The third, all of us we know, it was like a blackmail because you, America, support the British and the French in Libya because they support you in Afghanistan. We heard these reports. So it was a big shock for everybody.
Here Saif betrays a complete lack of understanding about the nature of political power within the US. It was clear from the beginning that Obama is nothing but a convenient puppet. Unfortunately the majority of Indians are just as ignorant as Saif.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by AnimeshP »

Well NATO (minus the US) seems to be a paper tiger only ...

NATO Runs Short of Munitions in Libya: Report
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by abhischekcc »

ravi_ku,

Q had become normal towards the west in recent years. To make an enemy out of him for no good reason is not the height of intelligence.

The only reason for this war is that the French president, who has a major inferiority complex because of his short height, wanted to do something manly. Before Libya, he had offered his military services to the Tunisians :eek:
All the reports on his motivations indicate that he rushed into this quagmire without adequately thinking about it, for reasons of vainglory. Hillary has supported him without knowing anything. Obama has projected a goo image by refusing to over commit himself to the Libyan misadventure. At no turn has he been enthusiastic about the war. I have more respect for him after this war.

---------
The main reason for calling them imbeciles is that they have needlessly damaged the credibility of Nato and cohesion of Europe at a very crucial time. They had no Plan B in case Q survived this war. True tactical brilliance of pakistani proportions.

--------
Yes, China has been kicked out temporarily, but if Q survives, guess which countries will be thrown out.

--------
France has needlessly created an infuriated, jehadi country on its doorstep.

--------
Only country that will benefit, whichever way this war goes, is US. If Q wins, Obama has a direct line to him, and he benefits at the cost of Hillary (who has been an ardent opposer of Q). If Q loses, US still wins as the 'leader of the free world'.

US has been playing 'Good cop, bad cop' with both Q and Europe :mrgreen:
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by abhischekcc »

AnimeshP wrote:Well NATO (minus the US) seems to be a paper tiger only ...

NATO Runs Short of Munitions in Libya: Report
So they did not even have anough munitions???? :shock:

On top of the fundamental mistake of unclear objectives, they are adding lack of planning as well??? :lol:
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Singha »

it seems the only country with adequate stocks of 'smart' munitions to wage a strong war for weeks is the khan. they have stockpiled tens of thousands of paveway and jdams for sure and thousands of more costly munitions jsow/jassm/slam etc.

the rest have enough for maybe 2 weeks war usage. and the weapons even if unused are consuming their limited number of takeoff and landing cycles permitted.

its not that India is any better in this regard. I would bet our stocks of PGMs are less than what France UK had. unless we develop Sudarshan and produce them like bata hawai chappals our position will not be comfortable at all -- think of number and density of pak-chinese targets vs the paltry few in Libya ... and on a much much wider area.

within a week IAF would be down to HSLD bombs and low alt release within sam/aa envelope.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Singha »

france moots idea of ground forces to guide air strikes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13124447

which indicates apart from liaison folks in rebel HQ there are no western kala chaddi types onsite - yet.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Singha »

incumbent wins election in nigeria..and violence flares up
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/afric ... tml?hpt=T1

as per international traveller risk advisories, the oil producing region of nigeria was already among the top5 most dangerous places ...

all of north and west africa seem to be in flames.

only southern half of africa is calm.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by abhischekcc »

^ Sending troops is an idiotic idea, even for Sarkozy.

It would violate UN resolution, and would open up the possibility of war crime cases against anybody who does that.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Singha »

but war crime tribunal and UN is in muthhi of the western govts and their media groups. they have nothing to worry there. except a few dissidents like The Guardian none will even report on it.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by jimmyray »

Now the Guardian reporter also writes about Gaddafi's army hiding in underground river system.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ap ... nderground
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by Pranav »

Leslie Gelb, president emeritus of the CFR:
All of which is to say that barring a stroke of luck, the West is up the creek without a paddle—and can't stop paddling.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and- ... rth-korea/#
My friendly advice to US elites would be to admit that they were wrong, and get the hell out.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by abhischekcc »

Mission creep begins!

UK sending military advisers to help Libyan rebels: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/ ... HX20110419
In a statement the British Foreign Office said it would expand its diplomatic team in the rebel stronghold of Benghazi with a military liaison advisory team made up of experienced military officers.

"They will advise the (rebel) National Transitional Council (NTC) on how to improve their military organizational structures, communications and logistics, including how best to distribute humanitarian aid and deliver medical assistance," it said.
Sure :roll:

------------------

You know what, I want these jokers to land up in Libya. The way UK military has displayed its incompetence in recent years, they will end up shooting the 'rebels' themselves, or end up calling a napalm strike upon themselves. :lol:

The main problem with the 'rebels' is not the lack of leadership, although that is also a big military issue. The main problem is facing a numerically and qualitatively stronger enemy, in a setting that is familiar to him, inside a population whose attitude ranges from hostile to indifferent, etc :mrgreen:

I want UK troops in Libya to get their asses whiped. UK has a sociopathic habit of starting wars and letting others do the heavy lifting. This time, by commiting troops in the fighting, they are exposing their leadership (both military and political) to failure in an uncertain foreign campaign.

The question now is, will this move be enough to make end the war in Libya, and if not, what would be the next step that the west would have to take. I suppose this will fail too, and they will have to commit some more resources/troops.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by suryag »

Last time they were in Britain they atleast had the Indians to fight with, this time they are on their own, let us see what happens
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by ramana »

jimmyray wrote:Now the Guardian reporter also writes about Gaddafi's army hiding in underground river system.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ap ... nderground

Tanks have some amphibious capability but not become toads and hide in tunnels.
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by ramana »

Pioneer Op-Ed from AP
OPED | Wednesday, April 20, 2011 | Email | Print | | Back


Islamist warriors in Libya

April 20, 2011 1:16:42 AM

Radical Islamists are now being spotted among the so-called rebels fighting Muammar Gaddafi, says Sebastian Abbot

Abdel-Moneim Mokhtar was ambushed and killed by Colonel Moammar Gaddafi’s troops last week on a dusty road in eastern Libya — the end of a journey that saw him fight as a jihadi in Afghanistan and then return home where he died alongside Nato-backed rebels trying to oust the longtime authoritarian leader.

In describing Mokhtar’s death on Friday, Col Gaddafi’s Government said he was a member of Al Qaeda — part of an ongoing attempt to link the rebels to Osama bin Laden’s group. Four years ago, Al Qaeda said it had allied itself with the Libyan Islamic Fighters Group — of which Mokhtar was a top military commander.

Two days before he was killed, Mokhtar denied any connection between his group and Al Qaeda, saying “We only fought to free Libya”.

“We realised that Col Gaddafi is a killer and imprisoned people, so we had to fight him,” said Mokhtar, one of a handful of rebel battalion commanders who led more than 150 rebels in eastern Libya.

The question of Islamic fundamentalists among the rebels is one of the murkier issues for Western nations who are aiding the anti-Gaddafi forces with airstrikes and must decide how deeply to get involved in the fight. Some countries, including the US, have been wary — partly out of concern over possible extremists among the rebels.

Nato’s top commander, US Navy Adm James Stavridis, told Congress last month that officials had seen “flickers” of possible Al Qaeda and Hizbullah involvement with rebel forces. But he said there was no evidence of significant numbers within the opposition leadership. :wink:

Spokesman Mustafa Gheriani of the opposition council in Benghazi said any extremists among the fighters are exceptions and that ensuring democracy is the only way to combat them.

Mokhtar, 41, of the northwestern town of Sabratha, arrived in Afghanistan at the age of 20 in 1990 when the mujahideen were fighting the puppet regime installed by the Soviets before they withdrew after a decade-long war.

He fought for three years in the fields and mountains of Khost and Kandahar provinces under Jalaluddin Haqqani — a prominent commander who was backed by the US during the Soviet war but has now become one of its fiercest enemies in Afghanistan.

At least 500 Libyans went to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, according to The Jamestown Foundation, a US-based think-tank, but Mokhtar said there aren’t many fighting with the rebels now. Many like Mokhtar who returned home were arrested or killed by Col Gaddafi when they announced the creation of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group in the mid-1990s to challenge his rule.

Mokhtar became one of the LIFG’s top three military commanders, said Anes Sharif, another member of the group who has known him for almost two decades.

Mokhtar was in charge in southern Libya and planned several assassination attempts on Col Gaddafi, including one in 1996 when a militant threw a grenade at the ruler near the southern desert town of Brak that failed to explode, Sharif said.

“Abdel-Moneim was the man who organised, prepared and mastered all those kinds of operations,” said Sharif, who is from the northeastern town of Darna, which has been a hotbed of Islamist activity.

The LIFG also waged attacks against Col Gaddafi’s security forces. But the Libyan leader cracked down on the group, especially in Darna and what is now the rebel-held capital of Benghazi.

“The worst fight was against Col Gaddafi in the 1990s,” Mokhtar said. “If he captured us, he would not only torture us but our families as well.”

The response forced many members of the group, including Mokhtar, to flee abroad, Sharif said. Mokhtar left in the late 1990s and only returned after the current uprising began, Sharif said.

“We don’t have many experienced commanders in the battlefield. That’s why I’m out here,” said Mokhtar, his full black beard peppered with gray as he stood outside Ajdabiya surrounded by rebel pickup trucks bristling with rocket launchers and heavy machine guns.

Al Qaeda announced in 2007 that it had allied with the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, and the group was put on the US State Department’s list of terrorist organisations. Both Mokhtar and Sharif denied the connection, saying it was never endorsed by the group’s leadership.

The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group publicly renounced violence in 2009 following about three years of negotiations with Libyan authorities — including with Col Gaddafi’s son, Seif al-Islam. In a statement at the time, the group insisted it had “no link to the Al Qaeda organisation in the past and has none now.”

The Libyan Government released more than 100 members of the LIFG in recent years as part of the negotiations. Sharif said the group changed its name to the Libyan Islamic Movement for Change before the current uprising.

British authorities believe the LIFG has stood by its pledge of nonviolence, and has no ties to Al Qaeda — though acknowledge that other Libyans command senior positions in the terror group’s hierarchy, including Abu Yahia al-Libi, Al Qaeda’s Afghanistan commander. :mrgreen:

AP
He was most likely setup.
RamaY
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by RamaY »

abhischekcc wrote:
I want UK troops in Libya to get their asses whiped. UK has a sociopathic habit of starting wars and letting others do the heavy lifting. This time, by commiting troops in the fighting, they are exposing their leadership (both military and political) to failure in an uncertain foreign campaign.
I want UK troops get their assess whipped anywhere in the world including islamic emirate of Londonistan...
rohiths
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Re: Libya No Fly Zone: Political and strategic aspects

Post by rohiths »

^^
If UK gets its ass whipped there will always be the US to bail it out and save its H&D. The only strategy for Gadaffi is to prolong the conflict and wear out the western alliance.
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