Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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Raja Bose
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

rohitvats wrote:RB, that is like cutting the nose to spite the face.....IAF raising elite infantry unit because of lack of co-ordination between IAF and IA!!!
Its not lack-of-coordination onlee, its completely lack of existence of such a unit in the 1st place. Like I said IA should have been the one to raise it but since they haven't, I don't mind IAF taking the initiative instead of waiting for the "proper channels".

Nevertheless, this is an age-old scenario where each service thinks the other is intruding into its turf and trying to take over its job. IAF was doing the same dance when IA wanted Army Aviation units - in fact even recently wasn't there a battle between who owns the attack chopper assets which were are supposedly ordering from massa or others? In the end regardless of who wins or loses internally, the enemy always wins.
rohitvats wrote:And will the same IAF place this supposed to be elite infantry unit (which I don't think it is) under IA's command? After all, it is the IA which will plan and implement all the ground operations.....so, will IAF send in Garuds to do what Sikh LI tried to do in Jaffna?
During a ground operation yes, the Garuds would be under IA command when they are part of an IA operation. MARCOS already operate in the same manner and from what I have heard the Garuds have a similar arrangement. Re. the "eliteness" of the unit itself, I cannot comment as they haven't been tested in battle yet but given the high quality of MARCOS and their tough training (who are also not coming from IA manpower) and the generally high standard of physical and mental fitness required by IA/IAF/IN, I wouldn't dismiss them off-hand as wannabe SFs (like the massa SF did when they used to derisively call the USAF para-rescue jumpers shake-and-bake commandos due to their shorter training period).

The Sikh LI should never have been sent for the Jaffna raid - it was a complete eff-up from the word go (even if we disregard the stuff like radio intercepts getting tapped and lack of airborne firepower). So yes, if the Garuds had existed then, I would choose the Garuds over the Sikh LI as being more suitable for that specific raid.


I also think that is why it is important to have a unified SF command instead of these fragmented turf battle where each thinks they can do it better when in reality SF operations are a completely different ballgame which requires pieces of all 3 services.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by rohitvats »

RB, you suppose too many things. Which again brings back me to the original question. What is the requirement of Garuds?

Elite Infantry on the lines of Ranger Regiment you say and I again ask, why from IAF? Since when have they started teaching about infantry tactics in IAF training syllabus? And why has IAF started worrying about such requirements? If they are going to be placed under IA command anyway, what purpose does it serve the IAF to take up such a task? Why not raise a small unit on the lines of USAF Pararescue? Why not undertake a task which is a natural extension of their core job?

Only you have so far suggested about Ranger Regiment style elite infantry unit -all the other public source info credit them with everything possible under the sky. And then there is small data point of them being organized into 'flights' (how appropriate) of 100 men each and spread across bases in India - if that is true, they sure are not going to help in doing 10% of what Ranger Regiment does.

As for turf war - I think this was a case of someone having a brain wave which twisted the original idea of having dedicated Para rescue style outfit and presto, IAF has it's own little Army......

As for the high level of training and physical prowess....well, sir, here people have joked about converting Para battalions en masse to Para SF - men who in the very first place are cut above the rest and we're talking about IAF matching the same from raw stock? And as for MARCOS and IN-you forget the small detail about IN having combat divers all along - men, who have to pass a very-very grueling physical and mental course to be able to qualify as such. It is these men which formed the nucleus of MARCOS. Worldwide, these very class of men have led the initial teams of Naval Commandos. And btw, MARCOS training is legendary even in Para SF.Their qualifying physical tests are good enough to reject many of the hopefuls - the training and probation is a different matter all together.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

Raja Bose wrote:rohitvats, I believe one of the roles being assigned to Garuds is US Army Ranger type stuff - for that I would say IAF has adequate manpower pool since the attrition rate during training wont be as brutal as Para SF.
Saar, if you see my post it says it is *one* of the roles which are being assigned to Garuds. Just because they do that role doesnt make them elite infantry like the US Army Rangers - in fact I would consider the Garuds much better trained and having a wider range of skills than the Rangers. Yes, they are trained for para rescue and as base QRT (the latter now also since it requires way more CQB skills than the usual IAF base security have due to the likes of LeT & co striking much deeper within India than just J&K). The interoperability with IAF assets is what I see as a big plus with the Garuds - how it works out we will have to see when they get to do a real op.

Like I said, it should technically be IA's responsibility. But if IA hasn't raised it but IAF has taken the initiative - Well and Good. In the end it matters less who does the job as long as it is done properly and efficiently. It is less of a question of who gets "insulted" or whose ego gets bruised rather than overall whether we have more potent capability or not.

Re. the training and so on, I dont think a comparison with the en-masse conversion of Para to Para SF units is valid. The en-masse conversion was a "shake-and-bake" affair whereas in case of Garuds unless there is more detailed info about their training or they participate in some known ops, it is hard to tell how well they are being trained. But given the seriousness with which IAF has gone ahead with them, I wont write them off as non-SF, or SF wannabes right now. It is easy for the established SF to turn up their nose at the newbie on the block but that is just a natural reaction. Ofcourse the Garuds have to earn their spurs and be blooded but thats a different topic. In the end, proper training and tactics will make most raw stock into a finished product. In terms of raw material, there is nothing inherently special about IA or IN men vs. IAF to be honest regardless of the "cut above the rest" type of banter that a lot of units indulge in - all of them have more than adequate numbers of men in peak fitness and form.

The MARCOS nucleus was formed from combat divers and some officers who trained with the USN SEALs (and SBS?) but the MARCOS volunteer is not compulsorily required to be a combat diver and not all of those going through the training now have been in IN as combat divers (my friend is one such fella and he is as sooper-dooper as MARCO as any others in his unit :mrgreen: ). Hence, IN has a similar choice of manpower like IAF does so I wont write off the Garuds just yet.
rohitvats wrote:And why has IAF started worrying about such requirements? If they are going to be placed under IA command anyway, what purpose does it serve the IAF to take up such a task?
Its the same arrangement as the MARCOS - it is not permanently under IA command and is not under IA command for all operations. Otherwise there would also be no reason for MARCOS to exist since Para SF did combat divers and waterborne ops training. :)
Surya
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Surya »

Guys take a dekho at ARmadillo

a documentary following Danish troops at Armadillo base in afghanisthan

much more details than Restropo
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by ParGha »

rohitvats wrote:... the last thing IAF needs to be doing is running infantry units. But I am not optimistic. And the SF tag gets my goat.
Agree. It seems to have become a prestige point to have your own "special" force these days. This too shall pass.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by negi »

^ Boss that's an obvious outcome of the turf wars amongst the three services; remember IA's request to have a heli force of it's own ?
As far as I see such things from my vantage point I would say why not , after all it is a sort of healthy competition.

Mullah Bose there are different classifications for the diving part; afaik all the MARCOS are SCUBA qualified however the elites undergo special training for diving to depths greater than ~30 meters.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by somnath »

^^^AFAIK, Garud was the first and only SF to have advertised in the papers for recruitment!
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by rohitvats »

^^^That is because IAF unlike the IA lacks the manpower base to draw upon..the recruitment was for airmen for the Garud force.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by darshhan »

Maharaja of Jaipur Bhawani Singh passes away.He was in Paras and served in 1971 war.He was also awarded MVC for the operations he conducted behind the enemy lines.RIP.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 005091.cms
JAIPUR: The last titular Maharaja of Jaipur Brigadier Sawai Bhawani Singh died at a private hospital in Gurgaon after prolonged illness.

The Jaipur royal died late Saturday night due to multi-organ failure, family sources said here. He was 80.

Singh, the head of the Kachwaha clan of Rajputs, was admitted to hospital on March 29.

His funeral will take place at 'Gaitore Ki Chatriya' in Jaipr on Monday, the sources said.

Born to Maharaja Sawai Man Singh II and his first wife Marudhar Kanwar of Jodhpur, Sawai Bhawani Sing was married to Princess Padmini Devi in 1966.

The royal couple have one daughter Princess Diya Kumari.

Singh also served in the Indian Army and received numerous honours including a promotion to the Presidential Bodyguard.
Some more information about him on wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhawani_Singh
As a young man, Crown Prince Bhawani Singh served in the Indian Army, and received numerous honors, including a promotion to the Presidential Bodyguard in 1954, and the post of Adjutant at Indian Military Academy, Dehradun.[citation needed] In 1968, Sawai was second-in-command of the 10th Parachute Regiment (Commando), one of the 3 elite Special Forces battalions in India at the time, and became the Commanding Officer (CO) later in 1968.

In the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971, Sawai led his troops deep inside Pakistani territory in the Sindh region of Pakistan, attacking and destroying many Pakistani posts. For this, he was awarded India's second-highest gallantry award, the Mahavir Chakra.[citation needed] He was promoted to the rank of Brigadier in 1974. In his retirement, he also served as Indian High Commissioner to Brunei from 1994-1997
He was one of the pioneers of Indian special forces community.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

^^Sad to hear that. He was not only one of the pioneers of Indian SF in terms of raising units and tactics but personally participated in many of the cross border raids (OPS's Killer Instinct describes them in some detail) and actually equipped his men from his own personal funds. A great man and a SF legend!

I never got why the IAF solicited Garud recruits thru newspapers - probably picked up the "revolutionary" practice from massa. In the end they need to ensure quality - that is all that matters.

negi-uddin, you don't need to be SCUBA qualified beforehand to apply for the MARCOS. MARCOS underwater training goes well beyond SCUBA.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

somnath wrote:^^^AFAIK, Garud was the first and only SF to have advertised in the papers for recruitment!
I don't know about advertising in papers, but a direct entry scheme is available even for PARA SF in which a citizen can directly volunteer for Parachute Regiment without having to apply for IA. Obviously, this mode of entry has not proved to be a success. So, if Garuds intend to achieve similar standards (both mentally and physically) as Parachute Regiment, I doubt the newspaper ads would do them much good.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by rohitvats »

Gaur wrote:
somnath wrote:^^^AFAIK, Garud was the first and only SF to have advertised in the papers for recruitment!
I don't know about advertising in papers, but a direct entry scheme is available even for PARA SF in which a citizen can directly volunteer for Parachute Regiment without having to apply for IA. Obviously, this mode of entry has not proved to be a success. So, if Garuds intend to achieve similar standards (both mentally and physically) as Parachute Regiment, I doubt the newspaper ads would do them much good.
The simple reason IAF placed advertisement for Garud was because they did not have the manpower base to ramp up numbers after some sort of nucleus had been formed. From where will IAF divert manpower for such tasks? And this, when the original profile of airmen in IAF will not be even remotely close to rigours of true-blue SF.

Like I said before, it is not IA which can ask each regiment to give X number of soldiers and Y number of officers for the next round of raising of battalions in Parachute Regiment. The stock needs to come in from outside. It simply does not have manpower base. And hence, that advertisement in the papers.

As for opting for Para (SF)....opting for Para Regiment is == to opting for IA. So, why the confusion? Each regiment holds its own set of recruitment rallies and Para regiment is one of them. Yes, recruits at PTC have the option to go for SF than Para battalions. But afaik, no one signs up for Para (SF) directly. Officers, of course, come through the IMA or from other regiments.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

^^
True, you cannot volunteer for PARA SF. You can only volunteer for Parachute Regiment and a battalion is allotted to you for probation as per vacancy (which may or may not be a SF battalion).

Regarding direct entry to Parachute Regiment, that was mentioned by Maj Gen KC Padha in one of his interviews that I have posted in the previous page.
Now, if he was talking about PBOR (or the now official term "other ranks") recruitment, then as you say, it is nothing unique.
However, if Parachute Regiment has a provision for citizens to directly volunteer for Officer rank in Parachute Regiment (which I highly doubt), then that would be very different.

Anyway, the point of my post was to convey that since recruitment rallies prove to be of little effectiveness to Parachute Regiment, I do not see how newspaper ads would be of much help to Garuds (if they aim to be anywhere near Parachute Regiment).

But talking about this, one more thing comes to mind. Did you notice that the Garud CO says that the Garud training duration is of 3 years. Admittedly, that could mean anything as the SF soldiers keep going through different courses for the duration of their carrier. Yet, this well defined "3 year" time period makes me wonder.
Take Officer level induction in Para SF for instance. As you said, they get volunteers who have already undergone training at institutes like IMA & OTA. So, PARA SF needs 6 months probation just to see whether the volunteer is SF material or not. If the volunteer clears that, he earns the Maroon Beret goes on to specialize different fields for many years to come. This is the basic model of nearly all SFs in the world.

Compare that with Garuds. No doubt they are physically tough. But even so, they are unfamiliar with combat skills that institutes like IMA and OTA impart. So, Garuds need to train them in skills that Parachute Regiment takes for granted in its volunteers.
So, how come Garuds effectively weed out the undeserving from the initial lot? I mean, it will take years of training to first bring the chap to infantry level (not just physically. But in mental toughness, motivation and leadership skills). After passing that, if the chap is not deemed up to the task of being a SF soldier, is he just rejected and all the training, money and time is allowed to be wasted? In case of PARAs, the volunteer would be sent back to his parent regiment and his training would not be wasted. But what about Garuds?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rahul M »

AF police ?
rohitvats
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by rohitvats »

Gaur,

there are some vacancies at IMA and OTA level for direct probation with SF battalions. But one needs to come with high reccomendations - especially on physical and mental front - to be able to bag these. There are instances of some IMA Cadets (or GC) undergoing capsules of parajump training before passing out. Cadets like these and those with proven track record in games and other physical activities get these vacancies. At the same time, they have to give alternate option in case of them not making it through their probation. Same goes for para as well. One unique feature of GC selected for SF probation is that they were combat (disruptive pattern) uniform and maroon beret during their oath taking and pipping ceremony. I don't know if the practice is still there - saw many moons ago during PoP of a freind.

As for the training period, you need to factor in the period to impart basic soldiering skills to these airmen (PBOR) - which will be 6 months minimum. And then comes in certain specialized trainings - and all this before the time period required for screening, probation and specialized SF related training.

As for officers - initial batch seems to have come from Ground Duty Cadre officers - some in service and other who were undergoing training at AFA. It seems now Garuds is a specialized vertical in IAF. Now, training in AFA is not aimed at imparting basic infantry skills like OTA or IMA - where cadets are expected to lead platoons into combat on graduation. So, one needs to impart basic soldiering skills as well.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

rohitvats wrote:Gaur,

there are some vacancies at IMA and OTA level for direct probation with SF battalions. But one needs to come with high reccomendations - especially on physical and mental front - to be able to bag these. There are instances of some IMA Cadets (or GC) undergoing capsules of parajump training before passing out. Cadets like these and those with proven track record in games and other physical activities get these vacancies. At the same time, they have to give alternate option in case of them not making it through their probation. Same goes for para as well. One unique feature of GC selected for SF probation is that they were combat (disruptive pattern) uniform and maroon beret during their oath taking and pipping ceremony. I don't know if the practice is still there - saw many moons ago during PoP of a freind.
That is news to me. From what I knew, this is how it goes:
- While a cadet could volunteer for Parachute Regiment from the Training Academy itself, he would first be allotted his parent regiment where he has to go after passing out.
- As you said, he wears combat uniform and maroon beret during their oath taking and pipping ceremony. That is still in practice.
- After the Officer reports to his parent regiment, he goes on for his probation with Para. This may happen immediately or it may take a few weeks.

I didn't knew that you can go directly to your probation with Para with reporting to your parent regiment being totally unneeded if you pass your probation.

However, the thing that really surprised me was Cadets undergoing para jump training before passing out. Are you sure of that? I say this because Para jumps are not carried out even during the probation period with PARA SF. The 6 months probation is mainly a test to do a physical and mental evaluation of the volunteer. It is only after clearing the probation that Para jump training is provided.
Now, training in AFA is not aimed at imparting basic infantry skills like OTA or IMA - where cadets are expected to lead platoons into combat on graduation. So, one needs to impart basic soldiering skills as well.
That is exactly what I was trying to convey in my previous post. :)

One more thing, in your previous post you said:
Yes, recruits at PTC have the option to go for SF than Para battalions.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is PTC?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

Rahul M wrote:AF police ?
I must tell you that I have little little interest about anything in Airforce that does not fly and shoot. :mrgreen: So, I my knowledge about AF Police is nill.
However, if they are along the same lines as Army's Military Police, then that may be wasting of these guy's potential. After all, they would have gone training for years with the best in the business.
But if one of the job of AF Police is the defence of AF Station, then they may prove to be a effective course of action.

However, my "guess" is that it would not be common to reject Garud volunteers after the first year or so. I find it unlikely. My guess is that Garud volunteer's fate would get decided within a year (if not a few months) itself. After that, he would generally be trained for the whole 3 years.
I think that IAF would be hard pressed to find 1500 Garuds if the selection criteria is any more strict.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Surya »

err what so great about basic para jumps??

NCC cadets (boys and gals) do it
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by rohitvats »

Surya wrote:err what so great about basic para jumps??

NCC cadets (boys and gals) do it
It is exactly on the same lines....14days module if memory serves me right. But then, within IMA, you can expect certain type of GCs with 'Josh' being selected who are likely to serve as future optees for Para.

Gaur,

PTC is Parachute Regiment Training Center (Bangalore). The point about SF optees from IMA/OTA is true. The other route is dicey as your CO (and other seniors), in case you're found to be good material, will in 9/10 cases not allow you to go and talk you out of it.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

^^
That is really interesting. I didn't even knew that some NCC cadets go through para jumps. Do you guys have any details regarding it? Mainly:
- How many jumps do the selected IMA cadets perform?
- What type of jump do they perform? Is it a static line jump or are the parachutes manually deployed?
- At what altitudes do they perform the jumps?
- Do they perform night jumps ( I will be greatly surprised if it is part of the module)?

And finally, if the IMA candidate fails to clear Para Probation, does he get to wear some sort of badge to showcase his para jump capability. Not necessarily para wings, but something along those lines?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^Saar, in case of cadets, it will have to be static line jumps since HAHO/HALO training is of a much longer period (that too after earning one's jump wings) and requires a lot of qualifier jumps than basic static line (which iirc was 5+1? the +1 being 1 night jump).
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Saar, in case of cadets, it will have to be static line jumps since HAHO/HALO training is of a much longer period (that too after earning one's jump wings) and requires a lot of qualifier jumps than basic static line (which iirc was 5+1? the +1 being 1 night jump).
Sirji,
Military free-fall jumps that you refer to are not the only parachuting techniques beside static line. In fact, in civilian adventure sports, static line is rarely (if ever) used. From what I can gather from a rather lazy read through of wiki, adventure parachuting generally involves jumping from a couple of thousand feets and opening the parachute at a very safe altitude of 2600 ft. That is far cry from HALO/HAHO/HAP jumps which you know are a totally different ballgame altogether.
Which is why I was asking about IMA cadet's jumps.

Regarding the qualification to earn the para wings, it requires total of 5 jumps "including" 1 night jump. But that does not qualify you to undergo free fall course at Agra. You have to carry out many more jumps (not sure about the number) to be qualified for that.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by rohitvats »

^^^ HALO/HAHO > free-fall > Static-line....one can be paratrooper (and this is basic requirement) with static line jump with-out being free-fall qualified and free-fall qualified w/o HAHO/HALO. Each represents different skill set and correspond to different kinds of requirement of different troops.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

^^Since these are NDA cadets I would assume they trained at PTS, Agra? HAHO/HALO is what is known as military free fall so unless someone is training for free-fall at a civilian sky diver school that is what they will be eventually taught after they learn to free fall becoz without that there is little or no utility to free falling as a means of deployment.

The free fall done while regular skydiving is short. I did a tandem jump once (strapped to an instructor who deploys the chute) and the duration between jumping off the aircraft and the deployment of the chute was pretty short (though it felt very long). Also the tandem jumps are too damn expensive to make it worthwhile for SDRE abduls like me to do it again and the regular training for sky-diving is even more expensive.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

rohitvats wrote:^^^ HALO/HAHO > free-fall > Static-line....one can be paratrooper (and this is basic requirement) with static line jump with-out being free-fall qualified and free-fall qualified w/o HAHO/HALO. Each represents different skill set and correspond to different kinds of requirement of different troops.
Isn't HALO/HAHO same as free fall as far as Paras are concerned?
As per my understanding, the falls are categorized as below:

- Static Line: From around 2200 feet. In extreme circumstances, the altitude can be lowered considerably when higher precision is required. But this comes at much higher risk.

- Military Free Fall: Consists of HALO & HAHO. Max height is around 22k feet. HAHO is specially skill oriented and requires restricting yourself in some kind of imaginary cone.

- HAP: Beyond 30k feet. Basically a HALO jump from higher altitudes. Requires special High Altitude parachute and oxygen mask.

But my question still stands. Do you know what kind of training the IMA cadets go through? And does one get awarded a badge for that?
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by jai »

[quote="darshhan"]Maharaja of Jaipur Bhawani Singh passes away.He was in Paras and served in 1971 war.He was also awarded MVC for the operations he conducted behind the enemy lines.RIP.

HH Maharaja Bhawani Singh Ji remained a patron to his unit till the very end, and was very close to his unit even after retirement and saw them as his family. He always saw himself as a soldier first and royalty later, and would attend all regimental functions till his health permitted.

Legend goes that he even bought and gifted prime land to base "his beloved unit" at their "home" station in Jodhpur. 10 were; (and possibly remain) the only unit to proudly own land in IA !!

I had the honor of meeting him a few times some years back, and was more than touched by his humility and affection each time.

In his passing, Indian Special forces have lost a great supporter and patron. May his noble soul rest in peace.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by negi »

For HALO and HAHO even the MARCOS have to go to Agra.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by sanjeevpunj »

He was brave and I heard personal accounts about him from someone who fought alongside him in Bangladesh. May his soul be glorified and rest in peace.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by rohitvats »

^^^When did 10 Para SF fight in Bangladesh? AFAIK, 10 Para SF is famous for raids in Chachro and Virvah in Sindh in 1971.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Surya »

gaur

generally anyone who goes through the basic para jump course gets a badge.

I know my friend still has his from his NCC jumps (he and another guy nearly died so he has stark memories of it)

If IMA or anyone else sends guys I would expect the same.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Raja Bose »

^^Exactly. When did Bhawani Singh go with 10 Para Cdo to Bangladesh? :-? On western front, Chachro was done by 10 Para Cdo and Mandhol was done by 9 Para Cdo. As re. Bangladesh 2 Para under Lt. Col. Pannu went there (the famous Tangail airdrop is by them) - I recall BR used to have a pic or two.

@Surya, that would be the jump wings one gets for qualifying in static line? I recall there used to be another badge for free fallers esp. the 1000+ jump walas (not sure if it was official).
Surya
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Surya »

@Surya, that would be the jump wings one gets for qualifying in static line?

Right - never remeber these technical names anymore

:)
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

Surya wrote:gaur

generally anyone who goes through the basic para jump course gets a badge.

I know my friend still has his from his NCC jumps (he and another guy nearly died so he has stark memories of it)

If IMA or anyone else sends guys I would expect the same.
Thanks for the reply Surya. :) So, I guess that the badge looks similar to the para wings? And that the Officer wears it after passing out from IMA? It would be highly interesting to see a picture of an Officer wearing that.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by wig »

the telegraph published from the UK has published an obituary reference to the Late Maharaja Bhawani Singh of Jaipur. an interesting nugget on this highly decorated soldier's participation in the 1971 ops.
The Crown Prince was educated at the Doon School, Dehradun, and later at Harrow. As a young man he served in the Indian Army, becoming commanding officer of the 10th Parachute Regiment in 1968. During the 1971 war with Pakistan, he led his troops deep into Pakistani territory, attacking and destroying several enemy posts. During the fighting, he was said to have duped Pakistani troops into believing that a formation of Indian tanks was advancing on their position when in reality the vehicles were revving jeeps. For this, he was awarded the Mahavir Chakra, India's equivalent of the Military Cross. He was promoted to the rank of brigadier in 1974.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituar ... Singh.html
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by D Roy »

oh this brings back some memories. I actually heard this story for the first time at NCC camp.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Singha »

I read somewhere he kitted up some of his unit with land rovers purchased with personal funds. RIP sir.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Rajput »

I had the pleasure to meet His Highness a few times over the years (dad knew him well). It was amazing that he would remember small details of our last meeting, even though a couple of years would have passed each time.

Many of the locals still consider him the Maharajah. Even though he had no official power, everybody loved him.

I remember in the 90s there were serious Hindu-Muslim riots in Jaipur. The old City, which has a large concentration of Muslims, was at the epicenter. The Muslims had some grievances, and took up arms; even the cops refused to go in. After a couple of days of stalemate, the government requested HH to do something. He got in an open-top Jeep, and drove straight in. The Muslims lay down their arms and a deadly situation was averted.

He love 10 Para. His jeep had the black scorpion (10's symbol) mounted on the front.

Back in 1971, he could have taken a desk job and ridden the war out (and earned a fair share of *VSMs and *YSMs). But he chose to lead from the front and put himself in tremendous risk by striking deep into Pakistan.

I know, there are some who question why he's called a "Maharaja". Even if Indira took away the titles, his actions made him an Emperor. He will always be a "Maharaja" to people like me.

God bless him!
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Airavat »

sanjeevpunj wrote:He was brave and I heard personal accounts about him from someone who fought alongside him in Bangladesh. May his soul be glorified and rest in peace.
rohitvats wrote:^^^When did 10 Para SF fight in Bangladesh? AFAIK, 10 Para SF is famous for raids in Chachro and Virvah in Sindh in 1971.
A decorated soldier of the 1971 Indo-Pak war - by Prakash Bhandari

The people on both sides of the Delhi-Jaipur highway lined up to welcome the then Lt Col Bhawani Singh as he returned from Delhi after receiving the Mahavir Chakra decoration from President V V Giri.
Image
Bhawani Singh commanded the para commandos in the 1971 war against Pakistan and was responsible for the capture of Chachro in Sindh. He moved into the small town with his unit and blocked Chachro from one side and from the other side the town was blocked by 20th Rajput regiment jawans commanded by Col GC Bhandari of Jodhpur. "The Indian army was moving deep into the Thar desert towards Chachro. Myself and Lt Col Bhawani Singh were briefed by our army commander Gen Bewoor, who later rose to become the chief, on how to move into Chachro. I commanded the Rajputs, but we were not adequate in numbers thus we were provided the support of the para commandos who moved from the other side on Jongas. There were fierce battles and many soldiers died in action."

The 10th parachute regiment (special forces) on the night of December 5,1971, led by Lt Col Bhawani Singh, entered deep into the enemy territory in the Sindh desert. For four days and nights in complete disregard to his own safety, he led skilful and relentless raids on posts held by the enemy's army at Chachro and Virawah. He inspired the jawans through personal leadership and courage and captured large area of enemy's territory and in sheer panic and confusion the Pakistani army fled. He also captured large amount of ammunition during the successful raids. He was awarded the second highest gallantry award of Mahavir Chakra. His battalion also got 10 gallantry awards for their action in these operations.

He was posted to Para Brigade HQ [50] in 1963. During this period he volunteered and carried out high altitude parachute jumping in Leh at 20,000 ft without the help of oxygen. He was posted as Adjutant, Indian Military Academy, Dehra Dun from January 1964 to 1967. In June 1967, he volunteered for the new Para Commando Unit and was posted to 10 Para Commando as Second in-Command. The following year he became the Commanding Officer and organised its training on a new concept.

Not many people know that in 1970 he helped train Mukti Bahini before the commencement of the Bangladesh War. His battalion also got 10 gallantry awards for their action in these operations.

While the Indian Army was in action in Sri Lanka under Operation Pawan, Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi requested him to go to Sri Lanka and boost the low morale of his old unit (10 Para). He was successful in this venture and, for this, the President bestowed upon him the rank of Brigadier.
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Gaur »

^^
Thanks for posting that. Much appreciated. :)
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Post by Surya »

While the Indian Army was in action in Sri Lanka under Operation Pawan, Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi requested him to go to Sri Lanka and boost the low morale of his old unit (10 Para). He was successful in this venture and, for this, the President bestowed upon him the rank of Brigadier.

:eek:
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