The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

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Pranay
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://www.flonnet.com/stories/20110506280901800.htm
Kejriwal is confident that the final Lokpal Bill will be passed in the monsoon session of Parliament although 10 previous attempts to pass such a Bill had failed. The 10-member drafting committee would start drafting the Bill from April 16, he said. “We will not let go, the pressure will be kept up. Since Anna Hazare is himself a member of the drafting committee, we are confident this time we are going to see this Bill become an Act,” he said. Allaying fears about the Lokpal becoming a too powerful, larger-than-life institution, he asserted, “We can assure you that the Lokpal will not be a supercop.”

Excerpts from an interview he gave Frontline:
But as per the provisions in the Jan Lokpal Bill, the institution of Lokpal will have sweeping powers of investigating, prosecuting and punishing politicians, judges and officials. Where is the guarantee that these powers will not be misused? What checks and balances have you [the leaders of the movement] proposed?

The Jan Lokpal Bill is not the final Bill. The final Bill is still to be drafted, and we welcome all suggestions in this connection. If you have any suggestion you can forward it to us. As for misuse of powers, we will ensure that the rule of law is not by-passed. It is a misnomer to say that the Lokpal will have sweeping powers. We will ensure that the Lokpal is not a supercop. All we are proposing is insulating the office of the Lokpal from political pressure and merging the job of the Central Vigilance Commissioner and that of the anti-corruption wing of the Central Bureau of Investigation into the Lokpal. Besides, since the Bill has to go through all the required processes, including scrutiny by parliamentary committees, and also has to pass the legal and constitutional test, you can rest assured that it will be something within the existing democratic framework. It will only work to facilitate the implementation of the Prevention of Corruption Act more effectively.

The euphoria generated by the inclusion of civil society representatives in the drafting committee gives the impression that this is going to be the panacea for all ills plaguing our polity. Don't you think the hype and expectations that have come to be associated with the issue of the Lokpal Bill are bound to lead to frustration if it is not passed? If that happens, what will be the next course?

This by no means is the panacea for all ills. This is just the beginning. Corruption has become so widespread that it is eating into the functioning of the entire system of governance. Once we can start tackling corruption effectively, then many of our problems can be solved, and for this we need to plug the deficiencies in law. The office of the Lokpal is meant precisely for this purpose. With the Right to Information Act, we ensured that the corrupt came to light, and with the Lokpal we are trying to ensure that the corrupt are held accountable, investigated and prosecuted, all within a time frame of two years. But there are other systemic reforms that are called for, like electoral reforms and complete decentralisation of power up to the gram sabha level. We are, however, confident that with the creation of the office of the Lokpal, 90 per cent of the corruption can be handled.

What about the checks to ensure the Lokpal does not become anarchic?

Once there is complete transparency in the functioning of the Lokpal, this problem can be handled. There will be complete transparency on how the members of this body are appointed, how they function and how they investigate, so there is no scope for anarchy.
http://www.flonnet.com/stories/20110506280901900.htm
Lokpal alone cannot stop corruption'

V. VENKATESAN
Interview with Prashant Bhushan
How do you think the corporate mafia can be tackled?

It has to be tackled by changing these policies that are allowing this loot of public resources and creation of private monopolies so that corporations with such enormous money are not able to overpower all public authorities and institutions.

Why do you think the Jan Lokpal Bill cannot tackle the corporate mafia?

When you have a system where there are a few corporations… it is like the Reddy brothers in Karnataka… they control. It is the mafia which controls today all the authorities, including the Karnataka Assembly, where they can buy up and take away the majority of the legislators. So, even the Chief Minister is unable to control them. Unless these policies are reversed, which are allowing such mafia to be created, that is policies which allow them to take away natural resources worth lakhs and lakhs of crores to set up private monopolies like airports, water distribution, electricity distribution, etc., we will not be able to control corruption.

Ultimately, of course, the Lokpal will be appointed by some authorities. And if those authorities come under their grip… The whole environment has become such – when you have just a few corporations which enjoy and together have more financial resources than that held by the bottom 80 per cent of the country's population put together, obviously, all democratic institutions will get subverted, because these corporations control the media, they can manufacture consent, they can bribe their way through, and all institutions start shaking. However credibly you try to create a Lokpal, it cannot withstand the onslaught.
One general criticism of the Jan Lokpal Bill is that it creates a monster institution, which will be worse than the disease it seeks to cure.

That arises from an improper and incomplete understanding. Firstly, some people have said that it has judicial powers. Certainly, the Lokpal has no judicial powers. It has powers of investigation and initiating prosecution. The judgment will be given by ordinary courts.

Similarly, people have said that it creates a superpower which will not be accountable to anybody. Firstly, orders will be reviewable in the higher judiciary. Secondly, the members of the Lokpal are accountable to the Supreme Court and can be removed by a five-member Bench of the Supreme Court on charges of misconduct. Thirdly, the Lokpal is mandated to function with full transparency. These three provisions will provide a sufficient check on any abuse of power by the Lokpal.

Apart from investigation and initiating prosecution, the Lokpal will have some incidental powers like ordering stoppage of contracts if it finds that they have been given on corrupt considerations or initiating proceedings for misconduct against officers and government servants, and overseeing the whole grievance redress machinery which will be created.

Another question has been how the Lokpal can deal with so much. It is possible to create a different institution to deal with public grievances. But what happens is, sometimes grievances arise out of corruption. Therefore, these are interrelated issues. It would be functionally better to have the same institution dealing with these grievances also – particularly those arising out of corruption or violation of the citizens' charter.

The way grievances have been addressed in this Bill is, there will be a citizens' charter which every public authority will have to make, how much time they will take to do what, etc. If there is any violation, that will be a grievance which will go to a grievance authority, which will be within that public authority. Thereafter, there will be an appeal to a vigilance officer in the vigilance department and then a second appeal to the chief vigilance officer. These vigilance officers will be under the administrative and supervisory control of the Lokpal.

Whistleblower complaints, corruption, and grievances are interrelated issues. Therefore, it will be better if they are dealt with by the same body. Of course, the body will not be directly dealing with all these things. To think that all grievances will come to the Lokpal is not correct. Grievances will go through the normal grievance redress administrative structure which will be created, and the Lokpal will only have administrative and supervisory control over that structure.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RamaY »

^ all is well once we tackle bad bad ktaka mafia and communal modi :mrgreen:
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Vikas »

AH had his 15 min. of fame and the show is over. Clap Clap! Willy politicians didn't cut their teeth in politics eating sugarcanes to let one unknown entity like AH to steal their thunder and kill their buzz.
I can bet my last penny that either the bill will go around in circles in Parliament session dates, LS, RS, select committee, Presidential approval till thy kingdom come or we will see the most watered down version of the bill.
Ah was brought into limelight to act like valve to release the disgust that people were feeling over the current polity and now that everyone feels that Mango Abdul has won something, we can all go back home and continue with our mundane lives.
By 15th Aug, Political foes would have discredited each and every member of this drafting committee with insinuations and innuendos starting with first salvo that has been fired against Bhushans.

Personally I think this was all Tamasha which now has met its purpose. See there is hardly any news on corruption except for maybe 2-G which will fade away pretty soon. Who remembers CWG, Antrix deal, Adarsh Society, Sugar/Onion import scam..The list is unending.
On top of it, Baba Ramdev is out , NaMo has been unnecessarily dragged into this debate while no one talks about Nitish Kumar who was also praised by AH.

IMHO We had enough of Gandhi's to occupy high moral pedastal with all the power but no responsibility or actual Job experience,
What we need is leaders like C. Sivaji, Bose and Savarkar.
Last edited by Vikas on 21 Apr 2011 10:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RoyG »

VikasRaina wrote:AH had his 15 min. of fame and the show is over. Clap Clap! Willy politicians didn't cut their teeth in politics eating sugarcanes to let one unknown entity like AH to steal their thunder and kill their buzz.
I can bet my last penny that either the bill will go around in circles in Parliament session dates, LS, RS, select committee, Presidential approval till thy kingdom come or we will see the most watered down version of the bill.
Ah was brought into limelight to act like valve to release the disgust that people were feeling over the current polity and now that everyone feels that Mango Abdul has won something, we can all go back home and continue with our mundane lives.
By 15th Aug, Political foes would have discredited each and every member of this drafting committee with insinuations and innuendos tarting with first salvo that has been fired against Bhushans.

Personally I think this was all Tamasha which now has met its purpose. See there is hardly any news on corruption except for maybe 2-G which will fade away pretty soon. Who remembers CWG, Antrix deal, Adarsh Society, Sugar/Onion import scam..The list is unending.
On top of it, Baba Ramdev is out , NaMo has been unnecessarily dragged into this debate while no one talks about Nitish Kumar who was also praised by AH.

IMHO We had enough of Gandhi's to occupy high moral pedastal with all the power but no responsibility or actual Job experience,
What we need is leaders like C. Sivaji, Bose and Savarkar.
^^ +1

This AH broke the whole anti-corruption momentum. Oh well...
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by joshvajohn »

Having got a great respect for Anna Hazare, It is time for Bushan to get out of anticorruption posts though this has diverted the issue. We need many Anna Hazares in India!

Blow to Bhushans: CD talk with Mulayam genuine, say forensics
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/blow- ... cs/779207/
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RamaY »

^ Yes we definitely need thousands of AHs, who

- are good at taking some others agitation at the insistence of vested interests
- are good at accepting draft proposals that bring external colonization from back door
- are good at retracting their own statements (no one asked him to praise me and my mother) at the threats of (pseudo) seculars
- accept the idea that Bharatamata is a Hindu icon so it must be removed from their agitation symbols
- accept Rs32 lakhs to conduct their own fast unto deaths
....
and so on... jai ho Bharat!!!
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 047593.cms
RTI activist Arvind Kejriwal on Thursday said that eminent lawyer Shanti Bhushan would not resign from the co-chairpersonship of the Lokpal Bill drafting committee.

"There is a smear campaign against the panel members of the Lokpal Bill drafting committee," Kejriwal said on Thursday.

Kejriwal further said that the country needs the expertise of Shanti and Prashant Bhushan to draft an effective Lokpal Bill.

Civil society members Arvind Kejriwal and Kiran Bedi were addressing the media in New Delhi.


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/every ... st/779362/
Karnataka Lokayukta Santosh Hegde on Thursday said he was reconsidering his decision to be on the joint drafting committee on Lokpal Bill, apparently upset over the vilification campaign against the anti-graft panel.

"I will be first discussing the issue with my colleagues and will take a decision based on it," Hegde, who had reluctantly agreed to be on the Lokpal committee due to pending work, said.

The former Supreme Court Judge, known for his vigorous campaign against corruption, said the current vilification campaign had put him off.

"Everything stinks," he said referring to 'the manner in which the vilification campaign first went against (Anna) Hazare, then against Bhushans (Shanti and son Prasant)'.

Hegde, who is due to retire in August as Lokayukta, said, "The anti-corruption crusade has unnerved some sections. Nobody expected Hazare to get the response he did," he said.
It is clear that the "Dirty Tricks" departments of some political parties are in overdrive to drive a wedge amongst the civilian members of the Lok Pal Bill members, and, also between these members collectively and the Indian public at large, by this current campaign of vilification of separate members of the public committee.

The Congress Party and it's cohorts are playing the part of Good Cop/Bad Cop, whereby MMS and SG utter the right noises while others within the same party, such as DVS (assisted ably by AS of the Samajwadi Party) tries his best to pull the rug from under the feet of the civil members of the Lok Pal Drafting committee...

Hoping that the Civilian members of the drafting committee and the public at large see through this cynical game by politicians to derail this worthy piece of legislation in the works and keep their unity of purpose and focus intact.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Chandragupta »

Baba Ramdev knows he has been played by the 2G Family & Con party but he is not willing to back down. Nationwide Satyagraha, he says.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Now-its-B ... 87614.aspx

Let's see how much coverage does this gets from the media. This is getting interesting.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by sum »

^^ Can safely expect Baba's ( not Amul baba but Ramdev baba) yatra to be fully blacked out from all media outlets ( except pioneer and 1/2 assorted outlets)
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Singha »

was the media always this bikau or it has got worse in the last decade?

nowadays its hard to find any unbiased article at all about economy or politics. everyone is out there pushing some agenda.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RamaY »

sum wrote:^^ Can safely expect Baba's ( not Amul baba but Ramdev baba) yatra to be fully blacked out from all media outlets ( except pioneer and 1/2 assorted outlets)
That is good in a way.

BR should bet ~60-70% Bharat behind him before he gets the publicity that attracts (secularized) population. Once the (secular) population joins him everything will get murkier as the secular public are very easy to make compromises.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Virupaksha »

Singha wrote:was the media always this bikau or it has got worse in the last decade?

nowadays its hard to find any unbiased article at all about economy or politics. everyone is out there pushing some agenda.
It was/is/will be always bikau.

It is just that with internet, we can cross check the facts and understand ourselves what is it that the media is trying to hide and what agenda it is pushing.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by saadhak »

X-post from J&K thread:
Manish Jain wrote:Never saw this posted here so doing it now. Scum of earth back to their tricks -

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011 ... ngs-40.asp
A 10-member civil society group from New Delhi Sunday said they are mulling to file a petition in Supreme Court to seek punishment for the security personnel involved in the killing of 118 persons during the 2010 summer unrest in Kashmir
The traitors include Agnivesh and Prashant Bhushan.

Can someone help to understand how anti-corruption and Kashmir both fit in their real agenda? Am confused (assuming anti-corruption is pro-India and anti-security forces is anti-India). Specifically, why did they throw themselves in the forefront of the anti-corruption protests?
Just trying to understand if there is a common undercurrent and get an insight into how they think.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 051534.cms
While Hegde seemed to be wilting under the pressure, Anna Hazare himself appeared to be distancing himself from the controversy. He was heard saying on TV that he had nothing to do with the Bhushans.

Hegde said, "There is a concerted effort to scuttle the Lokpal Bill, which has been pending for 42 years. It's something like former CM HD Kumaraswamy giving me suo motu powers for prosecution but governor Rameshwar Thakur declining sanction. Politicians do not like their conduct to be examined."

He added, "I am apolitical and committee members from civil society don't belong to any political party. First, they targeted Anna Hazare. When that did not stick, their focus has been on Shanti Bhushan. While Arvind Kejriwal was too smart for them, I am their latest target."

Clarifying that he did not want to go into the CD controversy relating to the Bhushans, Hegde said the smear campaign was only designed to nix the formulation of a strong anti-corruption law against politicians and bureaucrats.

"Our concern should not be about how good or bad Shanti Bhushan is but how good or bad the proposed Lokpal Bill will be. The legislation has nothing to do with any panel member's conduct. It aims to create an institution," he said.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by ShauryaT »

Gandhian guerrilla
Mr Hazare is a throwback to the genuine Gandhian, to an age when the Mahatma’s fasts brought British India to a screeching halt even as the colonial authority fretted impotently. Some 70 years later, the Indian government seems no better equipped to tackle such methods. ...

The larger question is the one involving philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s notion that animated the likes of Robespierre of sovereignty resting with the “general will” of the people. Mature democracies have evolved to a point where elected legislatures do reflect such will. In India, once elected, representatives by and large join the ruling class of self-aggrandisers supported by an administrative and legal system that fans their worst instincts. To imagine that the remedies for grave social, economic and political ills afflicting the country will be generated by this lot is to expect too much.....

At a minimum, the youthful activists will be able to recall in tones mirroring Wordsworth’s awe: “Bliss was it in the dawn to be alive, but to be young was very heaven!”
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Muppalla »

ravi_ku wrote:
Singha wrote:was the media always this bikau or it has got worse in the last decade?

nowadays its hard to find any unbiased article at all about economy or politics. everyone is out there pushing some agenda.
It was/is/will be always bikau.

It is just that with internet, we can cross check the facts and understand ourselves what is it that the media is trying to hide and what agenda it is pushing.
Not true guys. When it was just news print media before the arrival of the types of NDTV, there were numerous journalists who has a great integrity. Ideology may be different and even may be left oriented but not sold out.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Yagnasri »

http://rlindia.blogspot.com/2011/04/ref ... em-as.html

Reforming Criminal Judicial System as a whole needed than one Lok Pal.

I had to attend a civil case in Bangalore City Civil courts recently and I saw that the special court constituted for prosecution of Jayalalitha is still there working. If this is the state of affairs in a state like Karnataka, one can imagine the condition in states like UP. Further all the years taken for prosecution of political leaders is creating a situation wherein public thinks that all political leaders are criminals. This kind of perception is very bad for democracy. When we can effectively prosecute and convict all criminals be it politicos, be it corporate big wigs, be it Mafia leaders, bandits and jholawala and media traitors in a reasonable time then there will be freedom from criminalization of the politics and corruption. With Lok Pal we are only creating one more office without addressing the serious issues relating to the criminal justice system. Unless these basic issues are addressed the issue of criminal activities of politicos will not be effectively solve. Cure therefore needed to the malady which is failure of criminal justice in India and not to a symptom like criminalization or corruption in political system. I agree that corruption do need specific steps. But it should be done in a all round effort to root out crime and not as a isolated condition.

Whenever some serious offence takes place, our politicians and so called intellectuals. Say “Law will take its own course” as if it is some uncontrollable chemical reaction. Being associated with Legal profession for about 2 decades I say that the present state of affairs in Judiciary are no different from executive or legislature and the statements like law taking its own course is a gross misrepresentation of the actual situation. Few agree but will not actually realize how bad this situation is. I my self followed up a criminal case under CBI investigation since 1986.

In many states it takes decades for a criminal court to hear a case. There are no judges and courts in the required number in subordinate courts in the first place. Therefore the main problem for the “law to take its own course is the shortage of judges in the subordinate judiciary. 90% of the litigation is managed by Subordinate courts and you will be surprised to know that the total number of judges in our country is around 14,000. As per the Law commission’s report this number should be increase by 5 times. No action is taken on that till date. To be fair with Union Government they did try to bring a proposal for Indian Judicial Service, but there is no consent on the same from various states.

Unfortunately by Subordinate courts come under the State list and most of the states don’t give a damn about these courts. With the kind of political leadership we are having in various states it is difficult to expect improvements in near future. The proposal to create All India Judicial Service is mainly stalled because of the opposition from the states. Should the present structure of the subordinate courts which has not kept pace with the national requirements, mainly due to indifferent and negligent attitude of the states, to be allow to continue? I think not. A national level judicial cadre with proper recruitment procedure like civil services and year after year recruitment filling all the vacancies will serve the nation well. In case of need there can be constitutional amendment for this purpose. Even otherwise there are Accident Tribunals, Banking tribunals, CBI courts etc can always be staffed with AIJS officials. This will reduce the work on regular courts and will give more time for them to hear criminal and civil matters. Further I am very much sure that the Supreme Court or High Courts will support any sincere effort by the Union Government to recruit and staff courts with well qualified people in a transparent and proper manner. In fact Supreme Court time and again rooted for it.

Few years back I read that the total FIR’s filed in India in a year is about 6 Lacs. With 12000 Judges working in full time I think we can deal with these cases at trail stage and also hear appeals at the first level with in 3 months of filing a charge sheet. If we need to spend about 25 Lacs (actual amount will be much less than this) per court per year towards all the staff salaries and other establishment expenses we can have some 12,000 criminal courts exclusively for a cost of Rs. 3000 Cr per year. Most of the cost can be recovered from fines also. So the cost is virtually nothing. Even if infrastructure is to be created it will not cost a one time amount of say Rs. 12,000 Cr.

Very few will appreciate the effect such fast delivery of justice will have on the society. Many of the criminals have multiple offenses pending against them. Once we put a system on place wherein fast trial and punishment is given and once they go to jail in no time the charm of criminal life will be substantially reduced and the confidence of the public in the judicial process will also increase. With criminals being in Jail there will be less scope for criminalization of the politics. Further during faster trial also ensure that crimes are in public memory and therefore pressure will be there on the police etc to conduct the case for prosecution properly. Once it is clear people called as witnesses are also not required run behind courts for years and when there is hardly any time to manipulate or threaten witnesses common people also will be more willing to come forward as witnesses etc and help the prosecution.

One important provision in criminal law which needed to be urgently deleted relates to suspension of sentence. There is provision in Criminal Procedure Code wherein a sentence passed can be suspended during appeals time. During the period of suspension the convicted is free to wander in the streets.

Most of the criminals make use of this provision and get their sentence suspended. In the appellate court they drag the appeals for years while roaming freely outside. There is no fear of initial conviction and no fear till the final appeal is decided by Supreme Court which may take decades and persons will die by that time due to old age. So what is the use of giving conviction if you can not make the convicted under go sentencing? The best example of this situation is that of this traitor Binayak Sen. He is convicted by the Trial court for sedition and now came out without getting the conviction overturned because his sentencing is suspended. No one could have found fault with the system if the High Court or Supreme Court finds that there is not much evidence against him and release him. But to suspend sentence of such person is quite wrong. I do not know how Supreme Court in its wisdom did this.

Other legal reform needed to be done is the removal of provision for concurrent serving of sentences. At present if a person is sentenced for 5 years to one offence and say 3 years for another, normally courts order him to under go both the sentences concurrently and as a result he will only serve 5 years in prison. We need to remove this provision so that such persons will serve 8 years that is first 5 years term and them a 3 years term. Similarly limiting life sentence for 14 years is also should done away with and made a long time like 30 Years or ideally remainder of their convicted persons natural life without any chance for remission etc. With this, courts will find it much harder to award death sentence.

In the administrative level is the limitation on the cases listed every day and also the cases in active list before any single judge. At present many judges get some 100 plus cases listed before them every day. Lot of time of the court is wasted due to the same simply in adjourning the cases. Further it is also causing lot of inconvenience to advocate, public, police etc. Instead of that if every day is divided into morning and afternoon sessions and only 3, 4 cases are listed in a session lot of time will be saved and lot of convenience will be there to public at large.

Lastly capability levels of the people who are taking up the legal profession are pathetic. It good that Bar Association has now started a separate Bar exam. In fact we seriously need an exam in the mode of CA, ICWA or CS to improve the standard. Without increasing the knowledge and capability levels of the legal professionals there can not be any reforms.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Prem »

Smile of the banyan
By M.J. Akbar
So often during our conversation he addressed this question, sometimes to me and sometimes it seemed to himself: what was that marathon, non-violent war against the British all about? Had all we managed to do was replace white colonists with those of a darker hue?We ate a simple lunch of local corn, yoghurt and roti, brought by an enthusiastic well-wisher, in a small slap-up building consisting of a claustrophobic living room stuffed with sofas, a dining room barely larger than the dining table, and a comparatively spacious washroom, a few minutes drive away.This was not built by the Anna trust, but by the Maharashtra government. The amenities were not meant for Anna, but for His Excellent Excellency the Governor, who had decided to bestow personal benediction upon Maharashtra’s most famous village.
There was a moment when he was young, said Anna, when he seriously contemplated suicide because he could not find a purpose to life. Then he chanced upon a book by Swami Vivekanand at a railway bookstall, and found his raison d’être: service.Quaint? Naive? A bit too pious for a world consumed in the terrifying struggle for the next promotion, the next holiday, the next slippery road to some extra income (source irrelevant)?His smile is the antidote of cynicism, which is probably why Delhi — where most smiles are dipped in grease — dismisses him as either a sanctimonious humbug or, at best, ‘simple’. The second is the verdict of friends.
There will be a crash or two in the journey towards the creation of a national ombudsman for honesty, armed with effective powers that can slice through the comfort zone of wealth and authority. Some cuts to the draft of the proposed Lokpal bill might even be necessary for its arrival: I was aghast at the thought that the august Lokpal would be elected by a self-appointed club of worthies including Nobel Prize winners of Indian origin.V.S. Naipaul, where are you when we need you? The India you find despicable, your area of darkness, cries out for you!The most important question was raised by Mayawati, even if she could not resist the temptation to politicise her question: is the Indian corrupt or is the Indian constitution corrupt? Why should we destroy the great edifice of our constitution merely because those in power have lost their respect for it? Throw out the mucky bathwater, Anna, but please hold on to the baby.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/24/smile-of-the-banyan.html
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by V_Raman »

i was browsing ted and came across this talk by kiran bedi in dec 2010. she makes a statement in the end that made me sit up

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/kiran ... rence.html
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by vera_k »

When sarkari jholawallahs lost the plot

Chandan Mitra explains that Digvijay has to attack Anna Hazare's movement because this movement leaves Rahul with no agenda.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?271520
And Now, Some Facts...
...regarding the allotment of farmland plots by the NOIDA authority to Jayant Bhushan and Shanti Bhushan, about which a lot of misinformation has been spread
PRASHANT BHUSHAN
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by joshvajohn »

Judges may be kept out of Lokpal radar
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/judge ... ar/780851/

Corruption charges against the previous Supreme court judges relative is a kind of example that supports not to skip judges under this radar!
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Inder Sharma »

V_Raman wrote:i was browsing ted and came across this talk by kiran bedi in dec 2010. she makes a statement in the end that made me sit up

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/kiran ... rence.html
could you please share what she said?
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Chandragupta »

Inder Sharma wrote:
V_Raman wrote:i was browsing ted and came across this talk by kiran bedi in dec 2010. she makes a statement in the end that made me sit up

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/kiran ... rence.html
could you please share what she said?
She said she is now involved with movements against corruption and that it is going big and that 'you would hear about it soon'. Probably shows that the Anna drama was being planned for a long time.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by abhischekcc »

^not necessarily. She could have been making a generalised statement.

What really took my breath away was how self absorbed her talk was - I, me, myself.

The changes/initiatives she took in various capacities were over shadowed by own self image. There are a lot of good police officers, who have done the same thing, and before her. But they are not shameless self promoters.

---------

And that brings me to a fatal flaw in the composition of the people who are running this 'Anti-Corruption Campaign'. They are all/mostly self absorbed self promoters - all suffer from some degree of Messiah Complex.

That is why the Bill they have drafted reeks of a permanent dictatorship.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Chandragupta »

abhischekcc wrote:^not necessarily. She could have been making a generalised statement.

What really took my breath away was how self absorbed her talk was - I, me, myself.

The changes/initiatives she took in various capacities were over shadowed by own self image. There are a lot of good police officers, who have done the same thing, and before her. But they are not shameless self promoters.
Yeah that was strange. "I did this..", "I took this initiative.." Not too many 'We's in there.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://lokpalbillconsultation.org/

Well, here is the link for everyone to provide their input in making the Lokpal Bill a truly effective weapon against corruption in India. A Draft copy of the Lokpal Bill is embedded in the link for perusal....
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Sachin »

joshvajohn wrote:Corruption charges against the previous Supreme court judges relative is a kind of example that supports not to skip judges under this radar!
And to whether the PM should come under the radar, the committee have decided to leave the final decision to the Parliament. I have high doubts as to whether any political party would allow that to come in. And then finally who all could be investigated by this Lok Pal Bill? Peons, Clerks ??
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

Sachin wrote:
joshvajohn wrote:Corruption charges against the previous Supreme court judges relative is a kind of example that supports not to skip judges under this radar!
And to whether the PM should come under the radar, the committee have decided to leave the final decision to the Parliament. I have high doubts as to whether any political party would allow that to come in. And then finally who all could be investigated by this Lok Pal Bill? Peons, Clerks ??
Do go through the Draft Lokpal Bill at the link provided just above your post, re-posting below for convenience...

http://lokpalbillconsultation.org/

http://lokpalbillconsultation.org/docs/ ... ill2_2.pdf

Line item # 11 spells out the following...
(11)“Public servant” means a person who is or was at any time,-
(a) the Prime Minister;
(b) a Minister;
(c) a Member of Parliament;
(d) Judges of High Courts and Supreme Courts;
(e) a Government servant;
(f) the Chairman or Vice-Chairman (by whatever name called) or a member of a local
authority in the control of the Central Government or a statutory body or corporation
established by or under any law of the Parliament of India, including a co-operative
society, or a Government Company within the meaning of section 617 of the Companies Act, 1956 and members of any Committee or Board, statutory or nonstatutory, constituted by the Government;
(g) includes all those who are declared as “public servants” in section 2(c) of Prevention of
Corruption Act 1988.
(h) Such other authorities as the Central Government may, by notification, from time to
time, specify;
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Sachin »

Pranay wrote:(11)“Public servant” means a person who is or was at any time,-
(a) the Prime Minister;
This link from India Today states that the final call on this would be taken by the Parliament, when the bill comes up for discussion.
Civil society members on Sunday strongly backed bringing the prime minister within the ambit of the Lokpal Bill, although they left the final call to Parliament when it discusses a proposed legislation to set up an anti-corruption watchdog.
The activists (and the civil society) wants the PM to be in the ambit, but that may not be the case finally.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RamaY »

^ I read somewhere that the argument against PM coming under LP bill is that any such scenario will lead into unexpected developments. For example assume the economic (Stock Market), security, and governance implications if MMS is charge sheeted by LokPal based on some yet to be proven allegations.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by ramana »

Does the NAC come under the definition in Iten #11, posted above?
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Sanku »

Yes, it should.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by ramana »

Does it?
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Virupaksha »

If the list is the above, NAC does not.

The only definition in which NAC can be a part by a mile is (g), but my understanding is, it does not.

Mind you, Sonia will come under it being MPs, but Dreze and co do not.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Sanku »

No it should come under (f)

(f) the Chairman or Vice-Chairman (by whatever name called) or a member of a local
authority in the control of the Central Government or a statutory body or corporation
established by or under any law of the Parliament of India, including a co-operative
society, or a Government Company within the meaning of section 617 of the Companies Act, 1956 and members of any Committee or Board, statutory or nonstatutory, constituted by the Government;
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

For starters, my feedback to the Panel has been to review the RICO ACT (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act - A Federal Law in the US) and how it has been effectively used to fight a host of issues. Use aspects of it where applicable...

Interested minds can review the law at,

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... 20_96.html

some of the famous cases are listed at,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_ ... ations_Act
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by svinayak »

Baba Ramdev, announced to launch the biggest stayagrah in the history of India (even the world) on 4th JUNE 2011 in New Delhi to force the rulers to take 5 immediate steps to end the corruption. In this over 5 lakh people from all over India and abroad will participate and over one lakh people will fast with Babaji until their demands are accepted.

Please watch this video for more details:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXgJbghfkWo
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pratyush »

ramana wrote:Does it?

No, and NAC never will. That is the sole purpose of that body.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pratyush »

What I find interesting is that the GOI sacrificed the winter session of the parliament yet capitulated withen 4 days to Anna and his civil society. It seems that the whole dal is black.
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