India-US Strategic News and Discussion

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Apr 2011 19:37

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:^^^
A US President must have been born in the United States. Immigrants are not permitted to be either President or Vice President. Presumably, this would also apply to anyone who could wind-up in the 'chain of command', so therefore also the Speaker of the House, the Secretary of the Interior and the Chief of Defense Staff. Accordingly, Indra Nooyi will never be anyone's Vice Presidential running mate.

rightly said. and Trump is a master decepticon

. he is carefully exploiting all the fears of the public and using all the buzz words like China, free trade, "America is getting killed," "we don't produce anything anymore," etc etc. Presidential election cycle has become entertainment.....bread and circus for the masses. as long as the mango John/Jane get their welfare and as long as the general illusion of freedom/prosperity/liberty is kept alive, there is nothing to worry for the Anglo-Saxon elite. changing demographic trends might threaten the elite in the long run. but for the foreseeable future, all the D&G won't be enough to change the elite and their ways. they have become decadent now. death eventually come, but draconian measures to cling to power will come first.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 19 Apr 2011 20:58

SomnathJi,

You replied to my post which was in response to the article by Caille Millner that Acharya posted.

But thanks for the insight into Ms. Nooyi. As I said, I don't know anything about her management style except that she is CEO of Pepsi. So I won't bad mouth her a such. But I disagree with you vehemently that becoming CEO requires any great substance or talent. Thats not true. CEO has to be a loyal mouthpiece to board of directors, share holdres, and other big wigs etc. Luck, I mean right place at the right time plays a huge role. Are you telling me that Carly Fiorina who was CEO of HP has some kind of talent? Give me a break. Talented CEOs are like those honchos in Silicon valley, GE CEO Immelt etc.

But sticking to the topic of this thread, when I see a successful Indian like Nooyi, I categorize them in several ways.

First is Uncle Tom, articulate, establishment mouthpieces: Fareed Zakaria, Bob Jindal, Nikki Haley etc fall in the category.

Next is western-scripted "liberal" view of India: caste, nuke-craving, "South Asian" brotherhood including paki pigLeTs == "Hindu extremists" etc. Amartya Sen falls in this category.

Next are those who are personally successful, and good for them, and while they don't diss India, they don't wear it on their shoulders either for obvious reasons. In conversations, they eschew taking India's POV especially if its not the flavor and could hurt them. They will refer to "that country" when someone mentions India for fear of being associated with India. In private of course, they are 100% Hindustani. They wear Saris, do pooja, crave for thair sadam or chicken rika masala etc. Nothing wrong with that, after all, their first priorty is their personal well being. Indra Nooyi falls in this category IMO.

Finally, those successful Indians who try to use their power & connections to do whatever they can for India without being apologetic about caste, "human rights" violations in Kashmir etc. And they tell it like it is, true picture Pakis, like anyone should. Haven't come across too many in this category. Perhaphs the reason is that they won't get any notoriety in the US media as those in the other categories do. I fall in this category, but I am not successful on the scale of Nooyi types so it doesn't count

.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » 19 Apr 2011 21:09

Pulitzer for US-Indian Siddhartha Mukherjee's book

Indian-American doctor Siddhartha Mukherjee's book on cancer has been awarded the Pulitzer prize in the general non-fiction category.

Mukherjee's book, The Emperor of All Maladies, recounts the history of the disease and how the war against it is being fought by doctors.

The India-born doctor teaches medicine and is a cancer physician at Columbia University Medical Centre.

A Rhodes scholar, Mukherjee is also an award-winning science writer.

The Pulitzer award citation described The Emperor of All Maladies as "an elegant inquiry, at once clinical and personal, into the long history of an insidious disease that, despite treatment breakthroughs, still bedevils medical science".

The Pulitzer in the general non-fiction category carries an award of $10,000 (£6,152).

The critically-acclaimed book has been described as a "literary thriller with cancer as the protagonist".

Detailing the long history of the disease and the battles being fought to conquer it through case studies, the book also provides a glimpse into the future of cancer treatments.

"From the Persian Queen Atossa, whose Greek slave cut off her malignant breast, to the 19th-century recipients of primitive radiation and chemotherapy to Mukherjee's own leukaemia patient, Carla, The Emperor of All Maladies is about the people who have soldiered through fiercely demanding regimens in order to survive and to increase our understanding of this iconic disease," according to information about the book on the Pulitzer website.

The book, the site says, is a "magnificent, profoundly humane biography of cancer".

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 19 Apr 2011 23:44

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:^^^
A US President must have been born in the United States. Immigrants are not permitted to be either President or Vice President. Presumably, this would also apply to anyone who could wind-up in the 'chain of command', so therefore also the Speaker of the House, the Secretary of the Interior and the Chief of Defense Staff. Accordingly, Indra Nooyi will never be anyone's Vice Presidential running mate.

Madeleine Albright or for that matter Kissinger. Both Secys of State.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 20 Apr 2011 01:29

Would India become like this one day? or at least some parts of it. North East India is already there. The Southern part of India is getting there. This is directly related to American evangelical influence in this country. How they co-opt politicians and use them to do what they have done. They destroy nations. Toxic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6xxf7QeRG4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Q2Xtja ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5xI08hD ... ature=fvwp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvxkaAKS ... ature=fvwp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uic8Xi1 ... ature=fvwp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=568FlD9M ... ature=fvwp

IMO, this is a far bigger threat to India than anything else. Don't for a minute believe the Indians who fall for these buggers are any more sophisticated than Ugandans. They are not. They fell for the same spiel!

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 20 Apr 2011 02:37

@CRamS^^^: "But I disagree with you vehemently that becoming CEO requires any great substance or talent. Thats not true. CEO has to be a loyal mouthpiece to board of directors, share holdres, and other big wigs etc."

By the same measure, it does not require great substance to be anything: President, PM whatever. It's only 'kismet'.

I think Ms. Nooyi has a rare talent—the ability to get mentors to find her. This is something she has publicly stated as : "You don't find mentors, they find you." That whole Krishnamurthy family is amazing:sister Chandrika (Tandon) brother (Nandu). They are gifted alright.

She'll never make a politician even governor/senator because that persona does not jibe with hers

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/18/news/co ... /index.htm

Bomb throwers don't have substance or talent and they can be loyal mouthpieces of some demented ideology.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 20 Apr 2011 02:44

@Devesh ^^^: ".....rightly said. and Trump is a master decepticon.."

Around these parts The Donald's shtick is referred to as "Trump l'Oeil". A Frenchism some may know

Gail Collins has ripped him a good one

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/09/opini ... llins.html

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 20 Apr 2011 04:32

Clinton to visit India in July for Strategic Dialogue: Krishna

NEW DELHI: External Affairs Minister S M Krishna today said US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will be in India this July for the Indo-US Strategic Dialogue during which issues related to defence and security will be discussed.

"I expect Secretary Hillary Clinton to come to Delhi in July this year," he told reporters here.

The Minister was addressing a function to release the latest edition of the book 'Indian National Security'.

"We have a very structured security relationship with America. We have entered into a civil nuclear accord... I think our mutual interests are being well taken care of," he said when asked about the US' place in Indian security scenario.

The Strategic Dialogue between the two sides was supposed to have held early this month but due to the commitments of senior Cabinet Ministers like A K Antony in Assembly elections, it was postponed.

The 'strategic dialogue' was established in July 2009 during Clinton's visit to India with the objective of strengthening cooperation on issues such as non-proliferation, counter-terrorism and military matters; energy and climate change.

During the first meeting, India and US had resolved and signed the End-User Monitoring Agreement for the inspection of US weapon system and hardware in the Indian Armed forces' inventory.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 20 Apr 2011 06:03

CRamS wrote:First is Uncle Tom, articulate, establishment mouthpieces: Fareed Zakaria, Bob Jindal, Nikki Haley etc fall in the category.

Next is western-scripted "liberal" view of India: caste, nuke-craving, "South Asian" brotherhood including paki pigLeTs == "Hindu extremists" etc. Amartya Sen falls in this category.

Next are those who are personally successful, and good for them, and while they don't diss India, they don't wear it on their shoulders either for obvious reasons.

CRAMS-ji, IMHO you are subjecting "Indians outside" to far too exacting a standard

of "patriotism"...Everyone does not need to stick to a specific version of "Indophilisim"..

For example, your definition of Amartya Sen - I can off hand name a dozen well known academics in India who hold similar views - on Narendra Modi, casteism, dangers of "hindu extremism" et al...So why pick on Sen? People like Sen (and the late Sumantra Ghoshal, late CK Prahlad, as also Mohanbir Sawhney, Shrikant Datar, our current CEA Kaushik Basu and many more) have institutionalised "brand India" in many ways in western campuses...

I know little about Indra Nooyi besides what is commonly reported, and I know nothing about CArly Fiorina...But I do know that while "being at the right place at the right time" is vitally important, it is rarely that a complete dud will get so far up in the hierarchy...Nooyi for example, is an IIM-Cal (and Yale) grad...Banga is IIM-A.....So its difficult to argue that they got there just by being politically amenable (which too is necessary!)....

Anyhow, back to the topic, many of these Indians have played a a huge role in shaping the view of India in the West, and shaping Western views on India...Nooyi for example, co-heads the US India Business Council...Fareed Zakaria is an unabashed champion of closer Indo-US ties - you might want to read his "Post American World"..People like his brother (Arshad) have played a big role in channeling the large amounts of investments India receives today...Note Pepsi's own large commitment to India, as well as its "globalising" of India - the kurkure product is being rolled out across multiple countries - some of it would have happened regardless, but someone like Nooyi being there provides that extra impetus..

So I would go a little easy on them

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 20 Apr 2011 07:40

CK Prahlad and Amartya Sen were as similar as chalk and cheese.What was the "Brand India" they were projecting? Were they projecting the same brand or was CK Prahlad brought in just to bring some respectability?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Apr 2011 09:26

Cosmo_R wrote: Gail Collins has ripped him a good one

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/09/opini ... llins.html

Lets give the clown a break. He just has too much money, too much time, he is probably bored with life (as he is growing older, probably even aphrodisiacs are not helping him find happiness with the many women who will grovel before him), and so he is choosing to have some fun running for president. The entire presidential exercise itself is an excessive waste of time & money. Trump of course has the money, pocket change to him, to partake in the tamasha. Election is more that a year and half away, and the campaign is well underway. Actually it started 6 months ago. Give me a break. What a waste of resources, and the country is supposed to be in economic doldrums

.

I will blame people like Gail Collin for dignifying retards like Trump and Palin.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 20 Apr 2011 23:21

devesh wrote:she is inexperienced, which makes her susceptible to pressure from neocons. also, she can't take pressure or virrulent pressure tactics from opposition, which is why she quit from governorship in Alaska. this makes her weak, and gives her a very slim chance for higher office. but as a public figure, there might still be the possibility that she doesn't have the same hatred for India and Hindus, that rabid EJ's do. there might be possibility for her to be positively influenced about India.

She is associated with some african christian preacher who does some kind of possession-magic etc. Such people in africa, fiji etc are hostile to hindus from what I read.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 21 Apr 2011 00:27

somnath wrote:
CRamS wrote:First is Uncle Tom, articulate, establishment mouthpieces: Fareed Zakaria, Bob Jindal, Nikki Haley etc fall in the category.

Next is western-scripted "liberal" view of India: caste, nuke-craving, "South Asian" brotherhood including paki pigLeTs == "Hindu extremists" etc. Amartya Sen falls in this category.

Next are those who are personally successful, and good for them, and while they don't diss India, they don't wear it on their shoulders either for obvious reasons.
CRAMS-ji, IMHO you are subjecting "Indians outside" to far too exacting a standard of "patriotism"...Everyone does not need to stick to a specific version of "Indophilisim"..

For example, your definition of Amartya Sen - I can off hand name a dozen well known academics in India who hold similar views - on Narendra Modi, casteism, dangers of "hindu extremism" et al...So why pick on Sen? People like Sen (and the late Sumantra Ghoshal, late CK Prahlad, as also Mohanbir Sawhney, Shrikant Datar, our current CEA Kaushik Basu and many more) have institutionalised "brand India" in many ways in western campuses...

I know little about Indra Nooyi besides what is commonly reported, and I know nothing about CArly Fiorina...But I do know that while "being at the right place at the right time" is vitally important, it is rarely that a complete dud will get so far up in the hierarchy...Nooyi for example, is an IIM-Cal (and Yale) grad...Banga is IIM-A.....So its difficult to argue that they got there just by being politically amenable (which too is necessary!)....

Anyhow, back to the topic, many of these Indians have played a a huge role in shaping the view of India in the West, and shaping Western views on India...Nooyi for example, co-heads the US India Business Council...Fareed Zakaria is an unabashed champion of closer Indo-US ties - you might want to read his "Post American World"..People like his brother (Arshad) have played a big role in channeling the large amounts of investments India receives today...Note Pepsi's own large commitment to India, as well as its "globalising" of India - the kurkure product is being rolled out across multiple countries - some of it would have happened regardless, but someone like Nooyi being there provides that extra impetus..

So I would go a little easy on them

More than a little easy. When we (including moi) have attained their levels of achievement, we can then perhaps find fault.

Also, I think it's important for us to get the terminology correct. NRIs are confused with PIOs. The former are Indian citizens living abroad and maintain their allegiance to India. The latter are overseas citizens who as long as they are not masquerading as "Indian Citizens" (Sid Varadarajan for example), owe their allegiance to their adopted country even as they root for and support the country of their origin (India). Don't hold them to any standard different from any of their fellow citizens. It's not illuminating and risks putting them in the same category as Non-Indian Residents (Jawed Naqvi for example who is Dawn's fifth

columnist in India)

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Apr 2011 01:41

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 02x4820934
Americans need not visit India for cheap health care: Obama
Americans need not visit India for cheap health care: Obama
Press Trust Of India
Washington, April 20, 2011

With spiraling health care cost a cause of concern in America, US President Barack Obama on Tuesday pushed for an affordable health care plans arguing that he would not like his countrymen to travel to countries like India and Mexico for cheaper treatment. "My preference would be that you don't have to travel to Mexico or India to get cheap health care. I'd like you to be able to get it right here in the United States of America that's high quality," Obama said amidst applause at a community college in Virginia.

Obama was responding to a question from the audience on increasing health care cost in the US."Before we went on the path of you can go somewhere else to get your health care, let's work to see if we can reduce the costs of health care here in the United States of America. That's going to make a big difference," he said."And Medicare is a good place to start because Medicare is such a big purchaser that if we can start changing how the health care system works inside of Medicare, then the entire system changes. All the doctors, all the hospitals, they will all adapt to these best practices," Obama said.

Read Rude Remarks

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 21 Apr 2011 01:44

Prem wrote:http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 02x4820934
Americans need not visit India for cheap health care: Obama
Americans need not visit India for cheap health care: Obama

Now every American knows he can visit India for cheaper health care! Way to go Obama! This is truly free publicity!

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 21 Apr 2011 01:55

soon ombaba will visit India for heath check up...He can get his dental & medical done under 5k....

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Apr 2011 02:55

Prem wrote:http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 02x4820934
Americans need not visit India for cheap health care: Obama
Americans need not visit India for cheap health care: Obama
Press Trust Of India
Washington, April 20, 2011

With spiraling health care cost a cause of concern in America, US President Barack Obama on Tuesday pushed for an affordable health care plans arguing that he would not like his countrymen to travel to countries like India and Mexico for cheaper treatment. "My preference would be that you don't have to travel to Mexico or India to get cheap health care. I'd like you to be able to get it right here in the United States of America that's high quality," Obama said amidst applause at a community college in Virginia.

Obama was responding to a question from the audience on increasing health care cost in the US."Before we went on the path of you can go somewhere else to get your health care, let's work to see if we can reduce the costs of health care here in the United States of America. That's going to make a big difference," he said."And Medicare is a good place to start because Medicare is such a big purchaser that if we can start changing how the health care system works inside of Medicare, then the entire system changes. All the doctors, all the hospitals, they will all adapt to these best practices," Obama said.
Read Rude Remarks

Today was in a meeting. There are 300 hospitals in Las vegas area. All the health services and billing are done in India by one company. It has a revenue of $40m
All the major health service providers have to cut cost by outsourcing to India big time. Each doctor wants a support staff service.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Apr 2011 13:50

Cosmo_R wrote: By the same measure, it does not require great substance to be anything: President, PM whatever. It's only 'kismet'.

OT: But isn't the above more than true, look at Indian history itself?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Apr 2011 06:20

The Secretaries: Conversations on Diplomacy with Hillary Clinton & Henry Kissinger (Video)

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11631

A brewing storm in the national security team?

http://rothkopf.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... urity_team

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 22 Apr 2011 12:08

RajeshA wrote:
Prem wrote:http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 02x4820934
Americans need not visit India for cheap health care: Obama
Americans need not visit India for cheap health care: Obama
Now every American knows he can visit India for cheaper health care! Way to go Obama! This is truly free publicity!

Very well said Rajesh. US does the same by saying to every terrorist in every part of the work, look there is a safe heaven for you guys, just take a ride to Pakistan, Somalia or Yemen. Any intelligent person gives an a**e about what the president says, 'no'. Do we need a poor US guys to visit India with all their new world diseases, No. People whom India is interested in is Middle, upper middle class and they will continue to visit India no matter what US president says. Elections are coming soon and Ombaba needs to wake up and stir up american sentiments. If I were a good Indian primeminister, I would ask one of babu's from a ministry who has to do nothing about us, to issue a statement saying if america is so concerned about globablisation, perhaps they should stop buying chinese goods, german cars or Japanese chips and keep everyone happy in america. lol.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 22 Apr 2011 15:09

India's new worry: PoK & an Ocean of instability

Tejas Patel | 2011-04-22 13:41:40

The recent reports of the presence of Chinese troops in the Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK) have set the alarm bells ringing in New Delhi.

Despite its neutrality on the Kashmir issue, Beijing is now openly supporting Pakistan and is establishing its economic and political influence in PoK and Gilgit-Baltistan.

Indian strategic thinkers believe that the Chinese presence in PoK can be a long term part of their plan to connect the Karakoram highway with Gwadar.

The Chinese activities in Pakistan and other areas surrounding India are a part of the bigger events shaping up in the Indian Ocean region.

US Assistant Secretary of State Robert Blake, speaking at a seminar recently, talked about a book written by Robert D Kaplan. The book, Blake said is indispensable reading and in fact is a must read in the South Asia Desk of the State Department.

Kaplan in his thought provoking book 'Monsoon: The Indian Ocean and the Future of American Power' emphasises his central thesis that the Indian Ocean region will be the epicentre of global conflict in the 21st century.

The author of the book argues that the Indian Ocean region will be the principal theatre of conflict among the United States, China, and India.

Kaplan's book has triggered an intense and incisive debate in the US strategic policy circles.

The dominant view of US strategic thinkers is pivoted on the looming importance of Indian Ocean as a region of competitive interests. Therefore, the waters stretching from the Red Sea to Indonesia, which is the expanse of the Indian Ocean is being considered as the principal theatre of conflict among the world's established and ascendant powers.

An online magazine, 'OnEarth' published by America's most influential environmental group-Natural Resources Defense Council-says the conflict will be for control of fossil fuels, minerals, and other natural resources, and the infrastructure to important and export them (things like oil and gas pipeline, deepwater ports, and navies to protect critical shipping lines).

George Black, executive editor of 'OnEarth', gives an indication of American strategic viewpoint by postulating that the "unprecedented demand for energy from India and China will also be a major driving factor of the conflict."

In the contextual reference of Indian Ocean emerging as the world's next big theatre of conflict, the increasing Chinese military presence and activities in Pakistan acquires a compelling and new threat perception. Chinese assistance in building Pakistan's Gwadar port is well known. But a news report in the venerable 'Guardian' newspaper suggests that a new Great Game is being played out in Gwadar, in Pakistan's Balochistan province.

When the project to develop Gwadar port began, it was hoped that it will provide a vital link between Pakistan and the vast energy reserves of Central Asia. But today, after its completion in 2008, Gwadar looks like a ghost town. Despite the heavy Chinese investment in the project the Pakistan Government, owing to huge pressure from the US, leased out the port to Singapore government three years ago.

The port is strategically located near the Straits of Hormuz and was vital for China to access the sea for its western provinces. Given is proximity to Iran, the US saw Gwadar as a potential military base and Indian security planners were not happy to see Chinese having a safe passage to the Arabian Sea. There were also fears that it might become a naval outpost of China.

The local people who were hopeful that the port would have brought benefits are a dejected lot and blame the new Great Game for their misfortunes.

But the Baloch nationalists are opposed to the development of the port town as they see it as an attempt by the Pakistan Government to marginalize the local Baloch population. This has given rise to a deadly insurgency in the region with violence being perpetrated by Baloch nationalists, and reprisal abductions and killings by the Pakistani forces.

The quest for resources between India and China is not limited to this region alone. India, on its part, is hoping to win access to the strategic port of Chabahar, located in southwest Iran.

Indian officials are urging Iran to expedite work at the port, which is barely 72 km from Gwadar.

According to them, Iran is dragging its feet over the project because of its anxieties about the Sistan-Baluchestan region where they are trying to put down a Sunni insurgency.

India, according to latest reports, is willing to put more money into the port project as it will also give Afghanistan an alternative supply route and not be dependent on Karachi.

Courtesy: Indian Defence Review

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Apr 2011 22:39

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/if-us ... 110422.htm

'If US gets a raw N-deal it'll be a breach of faith by India'

Former Indian Ambassador to the United States Ronen Sen has asserted that any denial of a level playing field to United States industry and business -- that lobbied feverishly for the US-India civilian nuclear deal -- in the wake of the Nuclear Liability Bill passed by the Indian parliament would be 'worse than a breach of faith'.
Sen, a key protagonist in the negotiation of the US-India nuclear deal, was participating in a discussion, 'US-India Strategic Dialogue: Priorities and Next Steps', under the auspices of the Center for Strategic and International Studies' Wadhwani Chair in US-India Policy Studies. The US, he said, "has fulfilled each and every obligation. So, India [ Images ] has now to do its part. And, very important, the biggest impediment right now relates to the issue of nuclear liability."
If the US gets a raw deal in this process, he said, "It will not only represent an act of bad faith by India, it will completely turn things on its head."He acknowledged, "There was no quid pro quo -- I can mention this -- and that is why the clearance by the Nuclear Suppliers Group preceded that of the agreement with India." He reiterated, "The US administration -- the George W Bush [ Images ] administration -- did not ask for a quid pro quo (in terms of India purchasing nuclear reactors and nuclear-energy-related technology and fuel exclusively from the US). But if you take it in the spirit in which it was done, it would be worse than a breach of faith by India and that would be a big pity."The former envoy pointed out that he was an ambassador to Russia [ Images ] too. "The first country where the issue of nuclear liability was raised was Russia. They've also made it clear that if the law persists as it is, they will not be able to affect the supplies," he said. "The French also will not be able to do it, irrespective of government guarantees, because with the current provisions of the law, they will have very strong difficulties. I just want to mention this in perspective, because what has been missed is that like everything else, whether we talk about export controls of different countries. What's happening is technologies are moving much faster than regulations. Constantly, government regulations are huffing and puffing to keep abreast of developments, technologies.""Second is," he continued, "there is a great integration of industry, and integration in terms of the evolution of those technologies. So, you will not have Japan [ Images ] be able to supply everything on its own, or let's say France [ Images ], nor for that matter Russia. There will be other components. No country will be able to makes supplies on its own, and this aspect has been completely lost sight of -- both in terms of harmonisation of regulations, integration of plants and components of the plants, and integration in terms of technologies. No country will be able to function autonomously."

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 22 Apr 2011 23:07

Sanku wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote: By the same measure, it does not require great substance to be anything: President, PM whatever. It's only 'kismet'.
OT: But isn't the above more than true, look at Indian history itself?

I guess I failed to convey the sarcasm. Not easy you know...

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 23 Apr 2011 02:05

^^^
IB or RAW or somebody needs to look into Ronen Sen's dealings when he was in US. he increasingly seems like a US mouthpiece. very possible that he's been 'turned' during his stay.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 23 Apr 2011 03:06

How come Obama did not talk about going to China for health care instead of SDRE countries (India/Mehico) with "open drains and dogs on streets"? What is wrong with a little extra lead in tooth fillings?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 23 Apr 2011 04:29

devesh wrote:^^^
IB or RAW or somebody needs to look into Ronen Sen's dealings when he was in US. he increasingly seems like a US mouthpiece. very possible that he's been 'turned' during his stay.

Undeserved. Ronen Sen is a more effective Indian patriot than any of us (including moi) on BR.

Listen to what he said. The Russians were the first to complain about liability.

We don't want to realize the ISI's dictum: " Lick them and they will kick you. Kick then and they will lick you." come true do we?

GWB and Obama (on the reprocessing issue) did us a good turn without QPQ. We can look a gift horse and count the teeth or leverage it.

Know your friends, know your enemies. Ronen Sen is friend.

SureshP · Post by **SureshP** » 23 Apr 2011 04:56

Ronen Sen is one of the most erudite and patriotic Indian diplomat in the last 2 decades.

The half-wit conspiracy theorists never fail to surprise as they grind away with fatuous accusations against all and sundry of being "traitors".

They of course are the only true guardians of Indias interests.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 23 Apr 2011 08:09

Michele Flournoy, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy (Video)

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11633

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Apr 2011 08:39

X-post...
Prem posted
http://agonist.org/tina/20110422/the_us ... erial_aims

To every age, their own type of hero: the British empire had Gordon of Khartoum in the 1880s, and the Americans have Mortenson. He is the gentle giant of a man who stumbles into exotic and dangerous locations of which he knows little, and makes friends. This is the innocent abroad – an image of America in the world that is also evident in Mortenson's rival in the New York Times bestseller lists in the last few years, Elizabeth Gilbert's Eat, Pray, Love.
These hugely popular tales portray a deeply consoling myth of how the US engages with the world as these adventurous individuals wander through foreign climes, and in their expansive, endearing way want only to bring as much delight in their interactions with the locals as they experience themselves. Both books share the personal crisis/failure which is resolved by finding a new self (through a new sense of meaning or love) abroad: in both, the individual's emotional quest is the starting point and provides the narrative thread. These are knowable characters who effectively explain the exotic to home audiences. They offer homely, charming myths for an empire currently embroiled in deadly protracted wars, rather as Rudyard Kipling's fables delighted a previous age of imperialists.But perhaps the most intriguing – and most serious – aspect of the Mortenson myth is that his "one-man mission to bring peace" is a continuation of a western drive to "civilise" the world. His parents were Lutheran missionaries in Tanzania. Mortenson describes grinding poverty and ancient tribal customs: it's a patronising form of orientalism.Above all, Mortenson has talked about women's empowerment and his pledge to get girls into schools. Women need liberating from the oppressive tribal patriarchy. There is nothing original here – US foreign policy is now stuffed with the rhetoric of women's rights – but Mortenson has helped popularise one of the most astonishing conundrums: feminism has been co-opted as a rationale for the US war on terror. It dangerously justifies and confirms an American self-righteousness in central Asia.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 23 Apr 2011 09:53

Cosmo_R wrote:
devesh wrote:^^^
IB or RAW or somebody needs to look into Ronen Sen's dealings when he was in US. he increasingly seems like a US mouthpiece. very possible that he's been 'turned' during his stay.
Undeserved. Ronen Sen is a more effective Indian patriot than any of us (including moi) on BR.

Listen to what he said. The Russians were the first to complain about liability.

We don't want to realize the ISI's dictum: " Lick them and they will kick you. Kick then and they will lick you." come true do we?

GWB and Obama (on the reprocessing issue) did us a good turn without QPQ. We can look a gift horse and count the teeth or leverage it.

Know your friends, know your enemies. Ronen Sen is friend.

+1...Which is why Ronen S made that "headless chickens" remark...He waas alluding to the uber patriots who had nothing to offer besides empty rhetoric...

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 23 Apr 2011 16:24

>>Ronen Sen is one of the most erudite and patriotic Indian diplomat in the last 2 decades.

And not just a "pure" career diplomat. He played other slightly more discreet roles as well, expanding into the security domain now and then. It is easy to brand someone as anti-national on BRF. And we blame the DDM for writing without much knowledge about background. But it is a forum after all, designed for shooting from the lip.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 23 Apr 2011 17:05

When the other shoe fall it will be appropriate for this thread:

Japan seeks stronger military ties with US: report

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 23 Apr 2011 17:30

JE Menon wrote: And not just a "pure" career diplomat. He played other slightly more discreet roles as well, expanding into the security domain now and then. It is easy to brand someone as anti-national on BRF. And we blame the DDM for writing without much knowledge about background. But it is a forum after all, designed for shooting from the lip.

And across both sides of the political divide...From denying Pak use of an AWACS in the '80s, to the first Chakra deal, to ATV negotiations with Russia, to the nuke deal now...He has doen more for the country than all the idiots rasiing up temperature in Jaitapur causing arson - after all they are "nationalists"!

...

Yes, it is easy in a blog to start denigrating anyone....

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 23 Apr 2011 19:28

somnath wrote:+1...Which is why Ronen S made that "headless chickens" remark...He waas alluding to the uber patriots who had nothing to offer besides empty rhetoric...

Actually he made that remark about the bastion Indian secularism - journalists. He said that that journalists are behaving like headless chickens, looking for a quote here or a quote there.

The paragons of unbiased reporting that they are, the journalists twisted his words to mean that he was talking about politicians. You seem to be a victim of their propoganda against Sen

, as you did not refer to the original quote.

And then the 600+ miseducated imbeciles who are known to populate a large round building in the center Delhi, went into a feeding frenzy for Sen.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 23 Apr 2011 19:30

I just want to ask Mr. Sen one thing though. If India does not buy (outdated) nuke reactors from US, will it be as big a breach of faith as what the US did when it kept quite about Headley's identity and let the 26/11 attacks take place in Mumbai?

Just wondering.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 23 Apr 2011 20:24

abhischekcc wrote:I just want to ask Mr. Sen one thing though. If India does not buy (outdated) nuke reactors from US, will it be as big a breach of faith as what the US did when it kept quite about Headley's identity and let the 26/11 attacks take place in Mumbai?

Just wondering.

+1.
Sadly, there is a tendency to turn hard questions towards discussing personality based assertions. Let's us discuss about personalities and conduct either hero/royalty worship or condemn them if they do not subscribe to ones idea. But what is being said and why is it being said is of no consequence, because branding is more fun.
Should it be purely a business deal, that needs to be evaluated on the product being sold? or should it be more than that. If it is, probably it would be more easier to just openly align towards US because that is the best course. Maybe, even buy some of the parts of second hand nuclear plants, that they are planning to decommission.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 23 Apr 2011 20:36

^^^Unfortunately the personality based issues start off with allusions to people's patriotism etc, incl proclivities to get RAW/IB chekc antecedents!

About the point that Ronen S is making, its a bit different...He is referrign to the Liability Act, and as some people have been claiming that to be a "nationalist" response to 123, whatever that means...He is simply pointing out that the Liabiity provisions are problematic interantionally, and even Russia has raised concerns about them (its a well known fact)...So he isnt really saying anything earth-shaking or new to get into paroxysms of anger against his perfidies!

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 23 Apr 2011 21:36

Yes and no.

On the surface, the Liability Act creates problems (for foreign suppliers). But on ground, it really ends up strengthening the negotiating position of GOI, because now we can force concessions out of foreign suppliers by 'arranging' discretionary leniency for favoured suppliers (Welcome to Indian Bureaucracy

).

It makes me wonder whether this was part of India's game all along, or whether GOI thought of this later.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 23 Apr 2011 21:42

abhischekcc wrote:Yes and no.

On the surface, the Liability Act creates problems (for foreign suppliers). But on ground, it really ends up strengthening the negotiating position of GOI, because now we can force concessions out of foreign suppliers by 'arranging' discretionary leniency for favoured suppliers (Welcome to Indian Bureaucracy ).

It makes me wonder whether this was part of India's game all along, or whether GOI thought of this later.

The problem with the 'discretionary leniency' is that it will be outed and there will be hell to pay under WTO, NSG and heaven know what else. Besides, one the significant benefits of this nuke deal is that India will be able to export nuclear power-related equipment. Would we really want to have Indian companies open to unlimited liability?

There's an old saying: "We're not that smart and we're not that stupid."

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 23 Apr 2011 21:53

Cosmo_R wrote:The problem with the 'discretionary leniency' is that it will be outed and there will be hell to pay under WTO, NSG and heaven know what else. Besides, one the significant benefits of this nuke deal is that India will be able to export nuclear power-related equipment. Would we really want to have Indian companies open to unlimited liability?

Well, I wont be that concerend about WTO, at worst the Liability Act is an NTB, at best its a doemstic legislation...And Indian exports wont be affected either, the Nuke Liability ACt affects only plants and suppliers of equipment in India..

But yes, what it has effectively meant is that all Indian suppliers, from an L&T to small precision makers, to Idnian NPPs are covered under its ambit...Result? Indian companies, esp SMEs, pushed out of the sector..As they have even less financial ability to carry on 80 year liability risks than Areva or GE...