Discussion on Indian Epics, Texts, Treatises & Kathas

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Apr 2011 01:45

^ Bji

Do you have any reference on the cycles of raising/falling sea levels? I would like to do a consolidated info graph.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 26 Apr 2011 01:57

I will send you what I have!

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 26 Apr 2011 04:59

I say this as someone with decent knowledge into Ramayana, MB, and Bhagavatam; your explanation is very interesting. it might be confusing to beginners but for those acquainted with how the family lines and family history is explained in the itihasas and puranas, it's easy to understand.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2011 06:02

Devesh< Please write what you got from it so makes the task that much easier.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 26 Apr 2011 06:44

Parag ji's pointer excited me because it fit into what I had thought. I have been looking into the African connection, and western IOR connection of the coastal centres of India. What if the Gulf expansion of early Sumer - roughly starting at 4000 BCE was part of the general coastal expansion - of which Saurashtra/Yadava expansion was a part. Yadu was the rejected/expelled/pushed out scion. Their base is to the "west". When pressed for refuge, Krishna moves to the "west", but his roots are in the upper and lower GV - where he repeatedly returns to finish off the local chiefs, of Magadha, or Narakasur of "Pragjyotish" (literally where the sun rises).

The sense of expulsion from GV probably is expressed in Krishna trying to reassert unifying northern control over the "uttarapath" - the haunt of his ancestors.

Parag ji's pointer to identification of Saraswati and Gharghara, with Sarai and Hagar, and "Brahma" with "a-brahma" (addition of a is typical in Semitic), as I have described in a previous post, for me then implied a confirmation of the possibility of sequential flourish and drying up of the two channels and two competing civilizational centres. The one associated with Ghaghra, probably traded and mixed with then Egyptian civilization as part of a maritime culture - and was lost both as the channel drying up and its peoples dispersed into the Gulf region - around 3000.

I discovered just now from some papers that increasingly scholars are thinking of the modern addition of vowels to Egyptian roots as possibly spurious - just as I had speculated. That changes the whole scene. "Kemet/kermit" becomes stripped to bare-bones consonants - k-r-m-t - which oculd be a proto form of "krsna-mrittika", and it appears that literal meaning of "kemt/kermit" was "land of black earth", etc. Same goes for "d-sr-t" ("dhusar") , and the alternative land name "m-d-r" - either "madra" or "madhya-rastra(rat)".

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2011 06:54

Wow. So we can have unified history of the ancient world much after the out of India.

Kota Venkatachalam garu says that India is the origin of the humans. Manava Beeja sthalam.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 26 Apr 2011 07:23

It really is a strong possibility - and can fill up a lot of gaps as a paradigm!

sanjeevs · Post by **sanjeevs** » 26 Apr 2011 07:40

Interesting possibilities for sure. Wonder how some of this http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/006503.html will fit with the model being proposed.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 26 Apr 2011 08:55

Wondering if Greek Helios and Egyptian Ra are derived from Konark sun worship? Not many clues on what Orissa was called prior to the Kalinga label getting stuck to it?

The tale of Ganga coming down to earth to wash the ashes of the 60000 sons of Sagar, the tale told in a physical realm could be the Moi statues of Easter Island, some of them facing the sea and some facing inland, waiting for the time they will attain moksha and disconnect from the earthly bonds.

Western researchers have also played around with the dates of these artifacts, placing it slightly before European invasion of South Pacific.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2011 09:05

Klaus, And recall Easter island script is akin to Harappa script!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga,_India

....
Kalinga is mentioned in the Adiparva, Bhismaparva, Sabhaparva, Banaprava of Mahabharata. Kalinga King Srutayu is stated to have fought the Mahabharat war for the Kauravas. Kalinga is also mentioned as Calingae in Megasthenes' book on India – Indica & Megasthenes states that Magadha & Kalinga were Jain Dominant Kingdoms:

"The Prinas and the Cainas (a tributary of the Ganges) are both navigable rivers. The tribes which dwell by the Ganges are the Calingae, nearest the sea, and higher up the Mandei, also the Malli, among whom is Mount Mallus, the boundary of all that region being the Ganges." (Megasthenes fragm. XX.B. in Pliny. Hist. Nat. V1. 21.9–22. 1.[5])

"The royal city of the Calingae is called Parthalis. Over their king 60,000 foot-soldiers, 1,000 horsemen, 700 elephants keep watch and ward in "procinct of war." (Megasthenes fragm. LVI. in Plin. Hist. Nat. VI. 21. 8–23. 11.[5])

The Kalinga script,[6] derived from Brahmi, was used for writing. Among the offshoots, Kalinga script had the maximum resemblance with the parent script, Brāhmī and later modified to Oriya script in the beginning of the second millennium. This makes the Oriya Script as the most distinctive and least distorted script among the Indic scripts.[7]
....

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 26 Apr 2011 09:28

So the greatest gaps of primitive script are found between Indus Valley and Mesoamerica? Does that mean two families of scripts existed, both owing their origin to the Indic civilization?

So if island hopping was the mode in which Easter island civilization was established, how does it explain the lack of a written language amongst Austro-Asiatics (Jarawa, Indigenous Australians, Papua New Guineans)? Did written form fall into dis-use and suffer redundancy? Did climatic changes force a lifestyle where writing was too much of a task and physical record keeping fell off the list of human priorities?

We cannot discount the fact that shipwrecks did take place. So Easter Island settlements might have been an outcome of a Meso-American/ South American exploration attempt.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2011 09:38

Klaus try this;

http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/easteri ... valley.htm

and

http://indusvalleyscript.blogspot.com/

Rongorongo script

http://www.netaxs.com/~trance/fischer.html

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 26 Apr 2011 10:32

Thanks for the links Ramana ji. My doubts were in the line of Mayan/Mesoamerican script being fundamentally different from Easter Island (and hence Indus Valley). Thus I was thinking whether:

1. Harappan script branched out into two, one evolving in Egypt-Greece and subsequently in Mesoamerica, the other branch evolving in Pacific Ocean island chain culminating in Rapa-Nui. Harappan script being the Indic mother-script.

OR
2. Two different scripts started out from sub-continental landmass itself, one being the Harappan one, the other originating from eastern shores, probably Konark in Kalinganaadu.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 26 Apr 2011 11:40

Klaus wrote:Wondering if Greek Helios and Egyptian Ra are derived from Konark sun worship? Not many clues on what Orissa was called prior to the Kalinga label getting stuck to it?

Sun worship is older in India - Rigveda - 1st word of 1st hymn is Agni stuti. Orissa was called Udra or Odra desha.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 26 Apr 2011 20:14

sanjeevs wrote:Interesting possibilities for sure. Wonder how some of this http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/006503.html will fit with the model being proposed.

A rather simplified approach. The author ignores other studies which rule out any substantial geneflow from the CAR route post ice-age bottleneck. In fact the reverse direction is more strongly indicated. The story is actually even more complicated - and only a rudimentary understanding of how much info you can deduce about the directional flow from the genetic data - or not. A certain genetic type for example is shared by some Keralites and west-coast Italians of long European genetic ancestry. Who went where? Especially when you do not find any traces in between? Does it mean that Italians came and settled India from a stock that is genetically separated by at least 24,000 years?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 26 Apr 2011 20:20

Regarding language - just noted that the original ancient Egyptian name for Nile was "i-t-r-w" - simply "waters". It strikes that in India, "vritra" was variously an asura, a Brahmin, who caused droughts and held up water, and caused droughts. In one single verse of the RigVeda, Saraswati kills "vritra". Vritra's connection with water - holding up water - could of course be interpreted as an imagery of "drought" which was alleviated by Saraswati as a river. But an alternate possibility is also the culture/civilization that had learnt to control water, perhaps the lower channels of the Saraswati system, against which the upper channel culture moved and finally succeeded.

This would associate the lower-channel culture with a maritime culture that spanned both western India and ancient east Africa.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 26 Apr 2011 20:55

I thought Indra kills Virtha with Vajra made of Bones of Rushi Dhadhichi. Is it some other story in Vedas?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2011 21:10

Smae one. Try to read more about Vritra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vritra

In the early Vedic religion, Vritra (Vṛtra वृत्र "the enveloper"), is an Asura and also a serpent or dragon, the personification of drought and enemy of Indra. Vritra was also known in the Vedas as Ahi ("snake"). He appears as a dragon blocking the course of the Rivers and is heroically slain by Indra.

Vedic Version

According to the Rig Veda, Vritra kept the waters of the world captive until he was killed by Indra, who destroyed all the ninety-nine fortresses of Vritra (although the fortresses are sometimes attributed to Sambara) before liberating the imprisoned rivers. The combat began soon after Indra was born, and he had drunk a large volume of Soma at Tvashtri's house to empower him before facing Vritra. Tvashtri fashioned the thunderbolt (Vajrayudha) for Indra, and Vishnu, when asked to do so by Indra, made space for the battle by taking the three great strides for which he became famous.[1][2] Vritra broke Indra's two jaws during the battle, but was then thrown down by the latter and, in falling, crushed the fortresses that had already been shattered.[3][4] For this feat, Indra became known as Vritrahan "slayer of Vritra" and also as "slayer of the first-born of dragons". Vritra's mother, Danu (who was also the mother of the Danava race of Asuras), was then attacked and defeated by Indra with his thunderbolt.[3][4] In one of the versions of the story, three Devas - Varuna, Soma and Agni - were coaxed by Indra into aiding him in the fight against Vritra whereas before they had been on the side of the demon (whom they called "Father").[5][6]

In one verse of a Rig-Vedic hymn eulogising Sarasvati, the latter is credited with the slaying of Vritra. Mention of this occurs nowhere else.[7][8]

Puranic version

In a later version of the myth, Vritra was created by Tvashtri to avenge the killing of his son by Indra, known as Trisiras or Visvarupa. Vritra won the battle and swallowed Indra, but the other gods forced him to vomit Indra out. The battle continued and Indra was eventually forced to flee. Vishnu and the rishis brokered a truce, with Indra swearing that he would not attack Vritra with anything made of metal, wood or stone, nor anything that was dry or wet, or during the day or the night. Indra used the foam (which Vishnu had entered to ensure victory) from the waves of the ocean to kill him at twilight.

.....

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2011 21:12

Also readup on Norse and Old European etymology for gods and so forth....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesir-Asur ... #Etymology

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2011 21:14

Bji,
So one meaning of slaying of Vritra is the ending of the ice age in the sub-continent?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Apr 2011 21:16

^ Some Lightning Bolts they are to kill Vrittasura (world drought) in so many places. Can a ice age cause droughts in Bharat (near equator? if we notice Sub-continents northward movement) Wonder if Dadhichi is some sort of nuke-scientist. He also had his head cut off before and reconnected by Aswini devatas (the twin docs).

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 26 Apr 2011 21:30

ramana wrote:Bji,
So one meaning of slaying of Vritra is the ending of the ice age in the sub-continent?

There are parellels between the modus operandi of Vritrasura and Hiranyakashipu's slaying. In the former case, the one responsible for the slaying lays out a set of principles which he would not break whereas in the latter, a set of principles were set forth as requests toward supposed immortality and unmatched power. So really, there was not much by way of a dividing line between Indra and Hiranyakashipu, the terminology of 'devas' and 'asuras' is a later derivation.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 26 Apr 2011 21:41

brihaspati wrote: Saraswati kills "vritra". Vritra's connection with water - holding up water - could of course be interpreted as an imagery of "drought" which was alleviated by Saraswati as a river.

Some sources point out that Saraswati (in human form) committed a grave crime due to Brahmanahatya and the subsequent drying up of the river was part of a penance to cleanse the mahapaap incurred. The same sources also state that Saraswati is a phenomenon which only takes place in the intervals between two megadroughts, so it could mean that the last 3500 years or so is part of a megadrought cycle.

On a related note, why does Pralaya usually have feminine imagery, could it be somehow related to end of megadrought cycle and fallen world spiritual awareness and knowledge levels?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 27 Apr 2011 02:56

Yes, actually colder upper latitudes, would reduce precipitation in the subcontinent. This is a consistent pattern in the geologic records.

The megadrought cycles are pretty regular - roughly 1500 (1470 by some estimates) years apart. The variation is around 9-12% with 95% confidence level. Onsets, over the last 5000 years, 2200 BCE, 730 BCE, 740 CE., coming 2210 CE. Roughly +/-100 years from these points are the risk periods.

The Saraswati drying could be a one off phenomenon not necessarily connected to the mega-drought cycle. Saraswati was most probably a multi-channel - like Brahma-putra - river system, which was fed by initial glacial meltwater after the retreat of the last ice-age. When the monsoon regularized, after the retreat of the ice-age, gradually the precipitation would return to normal after excessive initial 4000 years. So then the excess water that created Saraswati, would level off.

I think, Saraswati killing Vritra and suffering penalties for it most likely also represents one culture based around the upper channel defeating and finishing off the lower channel culture - a culture which had become more practised in water conservation, or managed lower channel waters. No one would imagine penalizing an entity which has defeated merely "drought" - since drought would not be seen as having anything "good/redeeming" or worthy of respecting as a "brahmin". Brahmin here signifies "awareness" which means it is not talking of mere natural phenomenon but a culture.

These type of "penalties" are typical fallouts of "guilt" sense and there are many examples. People always base such guilt on some imagined or real human action of atrocity.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 27 Apr 2011 03:00

ramana wrote:Bji,
So one meaning of slaying of Vritra is the ending of the ice age in the sub-continent?

It is possible. The other is a later interpretation possible in the last drying up phase of the Saraswati system. Locally, there is a NW-Punjab-Rajasthan based drying from roughly 3500 to 500 BCE.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 27 Apr 2011 03:01

RamaY ji,
sent 4 files, one pretty large. Hopefully mail will be alright! Let me know if any problem occurs.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Apr 2011 07:20

ramana wrote:Wow. So we can have unified history of the ancient world much after the out of India.

Kota Venkatachalam garu says that India is the origin of the humans. Manava Beeja sthalam.

One more point I would like to add, remembering spencer wells and countering him by time lines. Now, there could be various stages of migration happening, and some in cyclic and others acyclic. Let us say, if it all started from desh, x start year, then they might return x+20K years later with entirely new set of characteristics and social behavior [actually wells says skin pigmentation reverses the tone entirely by that time of mutations].

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Apr 2011 09:16

I think it was Bradshaw foundation's claim that first 2 human waves out of "africa' ( Cutomary Respect by Gora Pundits) did not survive and it succeeded in third attempt. Also they stated about very few humen survived the last ice age and they lived in Northern India thus migrating all over from there .
Abraham's original name was Ab- ram/ Abhiram till "God " tell him about the new ID.
Gen 17:5-6 5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham

Here is what i found few instructions for old Abe

You are Hyksos/Arians as you know, and your duty is to convert the followers of Taurus ... And it shall come to pass that pharaoh will call you, and shall say what is your religion. You must say in return that your religion has been Taurean from our youth even until now, both we and also our fathers. Otherwise you will not be allowed to stay in the land of Egypt, for we Hyksos/Arians are an abomination to the Egyptians.

What we now have is the father and grand-father of Abraham being joined into just one individual in the Egyptian historical record, where he is listed under the two names of the pharaoh Nechosy:

The historical Pharaoh: Nechosy (Aasahra) = Asura
The Biblical Patriarch: Nachor (Azarah)=Asura/Ahura

http://www.egyptcx.netfirms.com/was_abr ... _egypt.htm

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Apr 2011 09:21

The Hindu achievements was Aryanised to demote the Egyptian->Greek->Roman claim. The Aryan got bad name with Hitler.

However AIT stuck in India and was used to change India thru the secular brigade.

The fly in the ointment was the DNA studies which showed the majority of world population was Out of India. This triggered the more extensive NatGeo study. We need to be prepared to what the news study brings up. As the Western 'experts' get first crack at it they will give it their own spin.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 27 Apr 2011 11:51

Timing of Atharva Ved

Astronomical Time Marks in Atharva Samhita

When Atharvan Samhita Was composed

Rishi Gargya's Atharvana Veda 19 Kaanda and Sooktha 7, clearly has two astronomical time markers and provide a clue as to when it was composed. It is easy dismiss that the starting of Nakshatra list with Krittika as an accident, but recording of star locations which are true for both Equinox and Solstice in same sookta can not be accidental. It suggests a well understood contemporary knowledge of motion of Sun, Moon and Stars in the skies. While such knowledge may have been more thoroughly documented in other texts, only a brief poetic indication of that knowledge appears to have been made in the veda's.

Clearly, both the astronomical markers recorded by Rishi Gargya in Atharva Veda kaanda 19 sookta 7 would be correct only near about circa 2400 BC. This must certainly be incontrovertible proof that Rishi Gargya's Sookta was composed near 2400 BC, dating Atharvana Veda to at least 2400 BC.

***

Rishi Gargya named Sri Krishna (so time of Mahabharat is around 2400 BC?)

http://www.vedicastronomy.net/stars_appendix.htm

***

And here two possible dates shortlisted from the same website, dating mahabharat War

http://www.vedicastronomy.net/mahabharatha.htm

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 27 Apr 2011 22:34

Gentlemen

http://marcivermeersch.wordpress.com/20 ... an-animal/

“Lion Man”, the oldest statuette with a combination man-animal

“Lion Man”, ‘der Löwenmensch’ in German, is one of the oldest and certainly one of the most remarkable statuettes in human history. It is (calibrated) about 35.000 years old. Because the quality of the art production of neanderthalers never came near of that of Homo sapiens we may suppose that is was made by the first wave of modern people that reached South-Germany.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 27 Apr 2011 23:35

Vritra's story can hint towards excessive tendencies of Saraswati basin megacities of building dams to tap the water.. this resulted in constant state of warfare between them which forced them to move westwards (towards Sindhu) and east wards (towards Ganga) or face annihilation. It also refer to popular revolution of village dwelling folk against urban folk who were usurping all the waters for themselves.. The end of this civil war was return of most of the people back to rural life style.. the vedas are written mostly by village dwelling rishis.

The Pani are group of asuras living in cities on the banks of a western tributary of Sindhu river (Rasaa river) who steal the cows of Angirasa. Sarama (originally a "devi" and according to interpretation of Sayanacharya Speech "Vaak" herself) finds the cows hidden in enclosed shelter made of rocks (hinting towards urbanization). The Pani people ask Sarama to defect, but she remains faithful to Indra. Pani people make fun of Indra while Sarama returns threatening them of dire consequences. Later of course, indra kills Pani and rescues cows from their enclosure. With time, somehow, Sarama became a "Bitch (Deva Shuni)".. dogs are referred to as Saarameya (of Saramaa) in ramayana and mahabharata where raama punishes a brahmin for beating up a Saarameya needlessly.. In MBH, Saarameya is exclusively a divine hound.. the story of Sarama, Pani and Indra are definitely accounts of westward expansion of SSC dwelling people. Mostly village folk from saraswati-sindhu basin expanding westwards in search of greener pastures..

Whatever be the case, SSC seems to be an example of an excessively urban society which collapses with unfavorable climate..

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 28 Apr 2011 04:32

Atri wrote:
The Pani are group of asuras living in cities on the banks of a western tributary of Sindhu river (Rasaa river) who steal the cows of Angirasa. Sarama (originally a "devi" and according to interpretation of Sayanacharya Speech "Vaak" herself) finds the cows hidden in enclosed shelter made of rocks (hinting towards urbanization). The Pani people ask Sarama to defect, but she remains faithful to Indra. Pani people make fun of Indra while Sarama returns threatening them of dire consequences. Later of course, indra kills Pani and rescues cows from their enclosure.

This could be the inspiration for the MB Krishna Leela with Brahma hiding the cows and Krishna duplicating himself...also the incidents prior to Govardhana comes to mind here (why worship Indra instead of the Govardhana and the forest cover?)

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 28 Apr 2011 07:46

The Pani's could have migrated to be the Phoenicians of eastern Med.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Apr 2011 09:15

I was just watching the documentry about the history of Hwbrew people and Monotheism. is there any similarity between the Karnak in Thebes and Konark in Orrisa as both dedicated to Sun worship. The Aumun sounds similar to AUM-man=mind=manush.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 28 Apr 2011 09:35

Atri wrote: Sarama (originally a "devi" and according to interpretation of Sayanacharya Speech "Vaak" herself) finds the cows hidden in enclosed shelter made of rocks (hinting towards urbanization).

The Greeks' Hermes might be derived from Sarma [tendency of western derivatives to substitute S with H]. As Hermes is the messenger of Gods, Sarma was the messenger of Indra.

Hermes is depicted in homeric hymns as "of many shifts (polytropos), blandly cunning, a robber, a cattle driver, a bringer of dreams, a watcher by night, a thief at the gates, one who was soon to show forth wonderful deeds among the deathless gods."

[edit: adding some nits on river Rasa]

The Rasa river or RV X.108 ,which Sarama crossed to reach Panis ...

अतिष्कदो भियसा तन न आवत तथा रसाया अतरम्पयांसि

... could well be a southern river too.

RV X.121 seems to indicate that Rasa was the extremity of known landmass at the time

यस्येमे हिमवन्तो महित्वा यस्य समुद्रं रसया सहाहुः

... the Rasa is quoted along with Snow clad mountains and the sea which are the other extremities of the known landmass. Or maybe Rasa just denotes the Rasatala.

Atri: Not to refute an otherwise western movement (by Druhyus and Anus), but I think Panis were southern or eastern people.

[added later] Rasa is more likely a western river per RV X.75

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 28 Apr 2011 12:21

Prem wrote:I was just watching the documentry about the history of Hwbrew people and Monotheism. is there any similarity between the Karnak in Thebes and Konark in Orrisa as both dedicated to Sun worship. The Aumun sounds similar to AUM-man=mind=manush.

This must be seen in conjunction with two other points.

1. The Telmun article by the lady scholar in Andhra Pradesh, finding several linguistic commonalities between Telugu and Hebrew.
2. The fact that Pani is a popular surname in parts of Orissa and Jharkand. Even Panini (supposed to be from Gandhara) is a descendant of the Pani lineage.

It is quite possible that Pani's moved out to the Levant, with a substantial number of them choosing to stay over in AFG.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 28 Apr 2011 12:31

Could be OT here, mods may shift it to a more appropriate thread.

About André Weil, from here

While he was preparing to enter the École Normale, Weil met another person whose influence was
decisive in his intellectual growth. This was Sylvain Lévi, leading scholar in the field of Indian studies
in France at that time. Already, in his very early teens, Weil had formed a vague resolution to learn
Sanskrit so as to be able to read Indian epic poetry, and the acquaintance with Lévi sparked this
latent wish and started him on a path that would prove fateful in its implications later on. It would
create an intense desire to go to India, and when the opportunity came later, he would grasp it.

...

He had already become convinced by his reading of the Greek poets that the only way
to deeper knowledge was through the study of the works of the truly great minds. So he began to
study Riemann, often seeking help from Felix Klein’s mimeographed lecture notes on Riemann’s work, which were available at the École library. In addition, he went to Sylvain Lévi to seek advice for some vacation reading (!) in Sanskrit. Lévi gave
him a copy of the Bhagavad Gita with the comment: “Read this. First of all, you cannot understand
anything about India if you haven’t read it,” and here Lévi’s face lit up, and he added, “and besides,
it is beautiful.” Weil read the Gita from cover to cover and was affected by its beauty immediately. The thought behind it impressed him profoundly and was, in his own words, the only form of religious thought that could satisfy his mind. As we
shall see later in greater detail, the Gita is not a dry system of philosophy, but a prescription for action for a man confronted by conflicting choices. Weil’s love and knowledge of the Gita was at the heart of many of the decisions and actions that would be critical later in his life: his decision to go to India and immerse himself in Indian life and culture for
a couple of years, his decision to refrain from joining the army when the Second World War broke out,
and the fortitude with which he endured the traumatic consequences that flowed out of this decision. He felt that it was his understanding of the ideas in the Gita that made him comprehend his sister’s way of thinking, which would often ap-
pear mystical in her later years. He attended Jules Bloch’s course on the Veda, Meillet’s lectures on Indo-European linguistics, and Sylvain Lévi’s course on Meghaduta, a beautiful poetic fantasy by one of ancient India’s greatest poets,
Kalidasa. He lovingly recalls the gentle voice of Lévi intoning Kalidasa’s beautiful cadences. These years
at the École, when his mind was at its most eager and receptive, were the seeds from which his life
grew to its fullest stature in later years. In some sense everything that he did or that happened to him, either in mathematics or in his personal life, could be traced to these years of gestation at the École

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 28 Apr 2011 13:19

Murugan wrote:Timing of Atharva Ved

Astronomical Time Marks in Atharva Samhita

Sage Rishyasringa, contemporary of Dasaratha was a master of the Atharva Veda. Thus an oral form of the Vedas must have existed prior to 7000 BC. However, is an oral version sufficient for conducting lengthy ritual yagnas, without being able to refer back? Doesnt the code of yagna state that the conductor should be in possession of written texts for reference?

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 28 Apr 2011 13:32

Klaus: Vedas were transmitted orally - I think oral word was considered superior because it ensured that the real meaning of hymns could only be learnt when Shishya learnt it from the Guru. The yajna conductor knew the 'Bhaavartha' and 'Divyartha', so it was easy to recite the hymns. For inefficacy of written word, see how barren Griffith's translation of RV sounds.

[added later] The importance of oral tradition to knowledge is also illustrated in
- RV X.90.13 बराह्मणो.अस्य मुखमासीद - knowledge originated from the mouth. Probably the most mis-understood hymn otherwise.
- Egbert Richter-Ushanas says that the word गुरु is derived from ग्र: root - literally swallow. The Shishya has
to be swallowed by the Guru to gain knowledge. The swallowing makes the गुरु 'heavy' as in गुरुत्व

No wonder the genetic programming of oral tradition ensures that Indians win spelling bees in US.