Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2011

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 28 Apr 2011 19:17

SSridhar wrote: Anup, that's why I have always felt that All'ah (swt) has always been cruel to the Pakistani Momin and benevolent to the SDRE kafir.

What is the significance of that apostrophe in All'ah? Is it meant to indicate a pause when pronouncing it? If viewed as a phrase separator, it makes the word sound like a collective sigh.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 28 Apr 2011 19:21

IPL can be used to revive India-Pakistan relationship

"Soon many Sri Lankan players will be leaving IPL to play for their country in England. The Indian cricket board should sportingly include a few good Pakistan players in their place.

"There is an abundance of good Twenty20 players in Pakistan who can lift the standard of the IPL.

"If India agrees to include Pakistan players in the IPL then UAE should offer to host some of the matches next year.

"With large numbers of fans from both countries there will be packed stadiums."

"IPL is entertainment but it has contributed to the promotion of the game. It should remain free of politics."

another interesting news
Discarded Pakistan batsman Shoaib Malik plays local cricket in India – Cricket news

Former Pakistan captain Shoaib Malik, who is struggling to make a comeback in the national team, has been seen playing local cricket in the Indian city of New Delhi.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 28 Apr 2011 19:27

Pakistan fighting for world peace, security: Raisani

QUETTA: Pakistan is fighting a war not only for its national survival but also for world peace and security, Balochistan Chief Minister, Nawab Mohammad Aslam Raisani, said on Wednesday.

Talking to a US delegation belonging to World Learning, Raisani deplored that certain officials from the US were making Pakistan a target of unjust criticism and expressing doubts on the performance and contribution of the Pakistan Army in the war against terror, an official handout issued in Quetta said.

The meeting had been arranged by the Centre for Peace and Development Initiative, a Pakistani organisation.

The chief minister was of the view that such remarks and opinions by the US officials would shatter the confidence of the Pakistanis, ultimately affecting the war against terror.

He advised the US officials to avoid issuing such discouraging statements. Raisani said that the Pak-US friendship was based on mutual trust and confidence and also on the basis of sovereign equality. “As good friends, we should retain mutual respect and regard for each other,” the chief minister said.

He said that both countries were facing the threat of terrorism, common challenges and problems and thus should unite and take joint action by taking each other into full confidence.

Chief Minister Raisani said that Pakistan was a sovereign country and a proud nation needing trade, not economic aid and assistance. He was of the opinion that those countries depending solely on aid would become beggars and not independent and sovereign States. “We will follow the principles of late Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and live in an honourable way,” he added.

So he is fighting for world peace. Looks like he is practicing for Miss Universe pagent.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 28 Apr 2011 20:01

But saar, haven't Pakis promised us never again to get humiliated by playing in IPL. The have left IPL for good and will play in PPL only.
we Injuns and rest of the world with heavy heart have accepted that fact that there will never ever be a Paki playing in IPL
and it will remain a domestic Indian cricket tournament. No match fixing, no chewing of ball, no shoes with spikes, no no-balls at predefined moment,
no dropping of catches...How I miss all that which defines Pak cricket.

Thank-you Afridi and "What was the name of the other idiot" and other Paki players for understanding Hindu Zehaniyat and small heart of Hindus.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Apr 2011 20:19

abhishek_sharma wrote:Lashkar-e-Taiba: Past Operations and Future Prospects

Folks - this is a real cracker of a paper and a keeper. It could even do with linking off the first post. Written with clarity and is a gold mine of information. Takes time to read - hence the late response.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Apr 2011 21:19

Charlie wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Lashkar-e-Taiba: Past Operations and Future Prospects

From above...

Interlocutors within and close to the Pakistani security establishment have suggested to the author that if the
Kashmir issue is settled “appropriately” then over time LeT could be steered toward non-violent activism. In other
words, the above-ground JuD and its array of social welfare activities provides a possible means for demobilizing its
militants. The leadership’s commitment to dawa and hence to protecting its social welfare infrastructure suggests this
path deserves exploration, an opinion shared by a number of U.S. officials with whom the author has spoken

The US in the past has worked with the Dawa during the afghan wars and hence have similar opinion. This converting the jihadis into non violent activism is laughable goal and can be a theoretical study.
May be some people may think Indians are stupid and if non violence is mentioned then they will agree.

The author is a professional researcher on the Jihad subject from Kings college (long time study center for jihad and possible center for the social engineering of the jihad muslims)

He seems to have access to all jihad groups and their opinions just like Leiven does. The jihadis are really open to these people and looks like the jihad have a emotional connection to these researchers due to past connection.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 28 Apr 2011 21:30

Proposal to import power from India chaded

Pakistan Muthida Kisan Mahaz (PMKM) has condemned the proposal of electricity import from India, saying it would create an impression that Pakistan had accepted the construction of 52 dams on its rivers.

Addressing a seminar, PMKM chief Ayub Mayo said that India was already depriving Pakistan from its share of water in the rivers irrigating both the countries by building dams on Chenab, Jehlum and Sindh. He said that demand to accord MFN status to India was against the national interests, as the Pakistan local industry would be destroyed completely after the agreement.

Other speakers – including All Pakistan Anjuman-e-Tajiran President Khalid Pervez, general secretary Abdul Razaq Babbar, Pakistan Water and Power Action Committee convener Khalid Bin Walid and Supreme Court Bar Association ex-VP Mian Wahid Akhtar – told the participants in the seminar that India had granted MNF status to Pakistan but it was a trick as our local exports could not increase due to the non-tariff barriers from Indian side. They said that Pakistani importers might earn billions of rupees if India was given MFN status but it could damage local industry. They said that India should remove trade barriers and provide special opportunities to Pakistani exporters if it was sincere to enhance trade with Pakistan.

The speakers highlighted violations of human rights by India in held Jammu-o-Kashmir, construction of dams on Chenab, Jhelum and Sindh rivers by India which would result water loss to Pakistan, making it unable to irrigate its fertile land or generate cheaper power to meet energy shortage. They said that India through constructing new dams and water reservoirs wanted to create a food crisis in Pakistan. They said Indian project of Kishan Ganga Dam would ruin Azad Kashmir’s beauty and environment. They said it was a conspiracy to destroy Nelum-Jhelum Power Project and an open economic war against people of Pakistan and Azad Jammu-o-Kashmir.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Apr 2011 21:32

abhishek_sharma wrote:
Gagan wrote:Roemer's departure is rather sudden.
I guess it is OT here, but please bear with me. I think there are two possibilities:

1. Obama has started thinking about the next election. He is probably reactivating his old network. Roemer was involved in his last campaign.

2. Two years in India is probably too much for these gora sahibs. They will join some think tank in Washington D. C. and babble about "heat", "monkeys" and "beggars" in India.

The changes for Af Pak is big now since they are serious about the money spent in Af Pak.
CiA chief is Gen Patreaus CENTCOM
Pentagon Chief could be Penetta who is bureaucratic leader who cuts budget.
http://news.google.com/news/more?q=morn ... CCwQqgIwAA

US Amb was an extension of the CiA and state dept and they need a different man for new goal.

The most significant change in the eyes of American establishment is that Pakistan agreed to meet India during the world cup and it turned out to be very successful without causing any nervousness among the Paki leadership.

This told them that Pak army was faking it when they showed uneasiness about India and Indian overtures.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 28 Apr 2011 21:37

Underpowered and unsafe, Pakistan's nuclear reactors are just big boys' toys

There are two main reactors used for energy production in Pakistan: the ageing plant on the coast near Karachi (Kanupp) and the nuclear plant near Chashma Barrage on the Indus River (Chasnupp I). Between them, they provide only about 350 MW of energy, just 2% of Pakistan's energy demand. A second nuclear reactor at Chashma (Chasnupp II) is being tested and should start operations soon. They are extremely costly, at about US $1bn for each of the Chasma reactors, plus they are very unsafe, according to two of the country's top physicists who teach at the Lahore University of Management Sciences.

"Kanupp only produces 50MW while Chasnupp I produces 300MW. Chasnupp II only came on line in March this year and will produce another 300MW as well," says nuclear physicist Dr Pervez Hoodhboy.

"The PAEC would become irrelevant without them – it is a matter of ego for them to keep the reactors going … they are nothing more than toys." Kanupp, which is under repairs, is currently being run at only 30% of its capacity. "It generates enough electricity to power just 3% of the city [Karachi]", says physics professor A H Nayyar

There are several safety concerns here about the design: Chasma I was built by the Chinese on their indigenous model which proved to be quite faulty as the original, Qinshan I, developed problems with its water flows. The reactor's nuclear vessel had to be fixed by engineers from US nuclear technology company Westinghouse after being contacted by the Chinese authorities. Pakistan buys its nuclear reactors from the Chinese, because no one else is willing to sell to them. As for the Chinese, they have no other market to sell their nuclear products to, as there are far more experienced producers around such as France.

In the meantime, there is a plan by the Pakistani government to build even more nuclear reactors. According to Dr Pervez: "It is hard to understand their continued enthusiasm to acquire more reactors. By 2030 they want 8000MW of power from nuclear energy, which is an absurd goal". The government has neither the money nor the technical know-how to build two more reactors, but they are hoping once again the Chinese will help them out with credit and expertise. Pakistan's expensive nuclear toys might prove to be lethal but it seems they are to be bought at any cost.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 28 Apr 2011 21:41

Gagan wrote:Someone is sending a message to the pakistanis. The last time there were bomb blasts involving the French engineers building the Agostas in Karachi, it was Zardari, Navy bosses and ISI wallahs warning the French that pay the commissions or else...

Maybe its the bus manufacturers who are peeved off this time? No contract renewals?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Apr 2011 21:45

Acharya wrote:
Interlocutors within and close to the Pakistani security establishment have suggested to the author that if the
Kashmir issue is settled “appropriately” then over time LeT could be steered toward non-violent activism. In other
words, the above-ground JuD and its array of social welfare activities provides a possible means for demobilizing its
militants. The leadership’s commitment to dawa and hence to protecting its social welfare infrastructure suggests this
path deserves exploration, an opinion shared by a number of U.S. officials with whom the author has spoken

The best part is that the Pakis have convinced a lot of people that "if the Kashmir problem is solved" all will be well.

This is actually a typical Islamist tactic.

"Muslims are bong screwed in Cashmere. The world must stop India from screwing them. Then all our gun toting terrorist will suddenly become nuns"

Bullshit. Part of the problem, believe me - is Britain and the huge bunch of PoK Kashmiris in Britain. This article makes a mention of that too. The second in the last week

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Apr 2011 22:10

shiv wrote: The best part is that the Pakis have convinced a lot of people that "if the Kashmir problem is solved" all will be well.

This is actually a typical Islamist tactic.

"Muslims are bong screwed in Cashmere. The world must stop India from screwing them. Then all our gun toting terrorist will suddenly become nuns"

Bullshit. Part of the problem, believe me - is Britain and the huge bunch of PoK Kashmiris in Britain. This article makes a mention of that too. The second in the last week

Indeed, and its the failure of MMS & Co to show the real reason for TSP fixation on Kashmir, that the Kashmiri Muslims are not Sufi saints and Gandhian peacenicks wilting under the repression of the Indian state, and that terrorism against India has nothing to do with this. Its because of Indain state's ineptitude that TSP has been able to get away with this fraud, and why USA so seamlessly and effortlessly sweeps Paki terrorism against India under the rug.

negi · Post by **negi** » 28 Apr 2011 23:15

Mega Mega Sellout
India Pak to initiate steps for power, petroleum trade

Bakis are going to grant MFckngN to India, serves us right.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 28 Apr 2011 23:33

negi wrote:Mega Mega Sellout
India Pak to initiate steps for power, petroleum trade

Bakis are going to grant MFckngN to India, serves us right.

Nothing will be granted. Here's what is actually happening:

These included recognition by Pakistan that "grant of MFN ( Most Favoured Nation) status to India would help in expanding bilateral trade relations".

In other words, meaningless persiflage in exchange for getting concrete stuff from India.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Apr 2011 23:40

shiv wrote:Bullshit. Part of the problem, believe me - is Britain and the huge bunch of PoK Kashmiris in Britain. This article makes a mention of that too. The second in the last week

I know I will be taken to the cleaners for this comment, but here goes! Part of the problem is that Indians in Britain are either

more loyal than the king; or are
Indians who came from Africa or West Indies, and thus do not identify themselves too strongly with India; or are
Indians who have more subnational feelings than national, they are Gujaratis, Punjabis, Bengalis, Telegu, etc.; or are
simply disinterested in matters related to India, and busy with their lives.

There are of course exceptions, but I mean at a level of a dedicated lobby raising awareness about matters of concern to India and putting pressure on British politicians to pay attention to those interests.

With the numbers of Indians in UK, and with their financial resources, it would otherwise be difficult to think that Muli-in-Bunds can act so anti-Indian and almost become leader of Labour.

I do not wish to flame-bait anybody! Just urging every Indian in UK to get their act together and see to it that Indian interests outweigh even those of Britain in the eyes of a British politician! These Mirpuris need to be neutralized!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Apr 2011 23:59

RajeshA,

I would one additional category, at least in US, those who have the wealth & power are strategically clueless and hence fall for this "stable & prosperous TSP is in India's interests clap trap", or extreme right wing not cases whom nobody can take seriously.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 29 Apr 2011 00:26

I remember that 10-15 years ago, one maulaner in pureland addressed this very issue by passing a fartwa that declared driving on the left to be haraam, and declared that purelanders should drive on the right onlee. *Some* pakis took him up on it, and the rate of chaos and entropy increase accelerated manifold. Several people died. Like the magnetically levitated Karachi circular railway, the "drive right" project has been put on hold....

saip wrote:I just noticed one thing. In Pakiland the pigs still drive on the left just like India. I am surprised that considering that they have this congenital hatred to everything Indian and they kiss US and Chinese butts all the time (they both drive on the right), they have not changed over to Right side. (The reason I checked is I am going to OZ/NZ land for vacation and wanted to see which side they drive (on the left side) )

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 29 Apr 2011 00:55

CRamS wrote:RajeshA,

I would one additional category, at least in US, those who have the wealth & power are strategically clueless and hence fall for this "stable & prosperous TSP is in India's interests clap trap", or extreme right wing not cases whom nobody can take seriously.

In US, at least till recently if some politician used to say something against Israel, it was immediately taken up and they had to do some very fast downhill skiing!

That is the kind of influence India can wield in UK. If any politician in UK as much as opens his mouth and says something against India, not to speak of doing something against India interest, the guy should become a lost cause immediately. He should lose his constituency and if the Pakis put him over the finishing line, his prospects in his party should end immediately!

Every Brit politico should have a price to pay for playing to the Mirpuri gallery, or working against India!

We have the muscle to ensure absolute submissiveness of the Brit politico, and we should use those muscles!

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 29 Apr 2011 02:33

RajeshA wrote:
CRamS wrote:RajeshA,

I would one additional category, at least in US, those who have the wealth & power are strategically clueless and hence fall for this "stable & prosperous TSP is in India's interests clap trap", or extreme right wing not cases whom nobody can take seriously.
In US, at least till recently if some politician used to say something against Israel, it was immediately taken up and they had to do some very fast downhill skiing!

That is the kind of influence India can wield in UK. If any politician in UK as much as opens his mouth and says something against India, not to speak of doing something against India interest, the guy should become a lost cause immediately. He should lose his constituency and if the Pakis put him over the finishing line, his prospects in his party should end immediately!

Every Brit politico should have a price to pay for playing to the Mirpuri gallery, or working against India!

We have the muscle to ensure absolute submissiveness of the Brit politico, and we should use those muscles!

Could you elaborate on how this can be achieved? The MPs are responsive to their constituents. There is a Pakistani/BDeshi/Muslim vote 'bloc'.

Indians vote their self interests like the whites. How do you form this 'bloc' that pushes India's interests?

Just remember on BRF there is all this talk of how 'deracinated' PIOs are and how their first allegiance is to their adopted country.

What is the value proposition to the PIOs?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 29 Apr 2011 03:03

negi wrote:Mega Mega Sellout
India Pak to initiate steps for power, petroleum trade

Bakis are going to grant MFckngN to India, serves us right.

No agreement will last if there is no commercial side to it. This is just diplomacy 101 taking place. MMS is no sell out - he just doesnt do a lot of lambasting like maybe others are used to - He was quietly working away to checkmate certain adversaries of ours. Trust me on this.

Meanwhile there were people complaining GoI isn't doing anything in Pak etc etc. Why do we do anything if they are butchering themselves anyway?

SSS speaks: Pakistan: Attack on navy bus 'likely done with inside help'

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Apr 2011 03:24

Patience and Pakistan: Both Lost
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 09691.html

In a plaintive March op-ed, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari asked for greater patience with his nation. Zardari wrote, "We are fighting terrorists for the soul of Pakistan and have paid a heavy price. Our desire to confront and deal with the menace in a manner that is effective in our context should not become the basis for questioning our commitment or ignoring our sacrifices."American patience with Pakistan has been nearly boundless, but - as events of the past few months demonstrate - Pakistan's patience with America has apparently run out. It's not only because our Predator drone strikes and other CIA operations have raised anti-American sentiment to new heights. They have. But the biggest reason that Pakistan's patience has run out is President Obama's apparent failure to understand the Pakistanis' dilemma
In a "background only" conversation with a former Pakistani head of state over a year ago, the gentleman said fervently that if a strong American presence is removed from Afghanistan, it is only the matter of a brief time before Pakistan - and its nuclear arsenal - fall to the Taliban and other terrorist forces.Our alliance with Pakistan has always been one of convenience, not trust. We needed, and then-president Pervez Musharraf provided, a geographic bridge into Afghanistan. But since that moment, Pakistani intelligence and military cooperation has been a sometime thing. The Pakistani intelligence agency - the ISI - has longstanding ties to the Taliban and probably other terrorist organizations, many of which make their home in Pakistan.There is no easy option here. American withdrawal is a certainty and Pakistan is unwilling - and probably unable -- to risk surviving alone. If we had an intelligence capability that would operate effectively (and covertly) in Pakistan and Afghanistan after we withdrew, we might be able to maintain sufficient covert operations and quasi-covert Predator drone strikes to contain the terrorist threat to Pakistan. But we lack that capability and without a base in one of the two nations, a "terrorist overwatch" of that sort cannot operate.

So what is left? Gen. David Petraeus has always said that our accomplishments in Afghanistan are "fragile and reversible." Nation-building has failed in Afghanistan. When we leave, that failure will spread over Pakistan. Afghanistan may quickly become the same sort of terrorist breeding ground it was before 9-11. Pakistan may be the same, with nuclear weapons pointed at India.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Apr 2011 03:42

India Sets Date for Gas Deal With Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkmenistan
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 50752.html
(kaisa Majakh hai)

NEW DELHI –India, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan expect to finalize a gas sale and purchase agreement by June 30 and sign a final deal by July 31, India's oil minister said Thursday.
S. Jaipal Reddy's statement came after a meeting between the four countries on setting up a gas pipeline that will run from Turkmenistan to India through Afghanistan and Pakistan. "Our ambition is to complete the pipeline by 2016," Mr. Reddy said. The pipeline, commonly referred as the TAPI pipeline, involves building 1,680 kilometers of pipeline with a capacity to transfer 90 million cubic meters of gas a day. With the completion of the pipeline, India would get 38 MMSCMD of gas.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Apr 2011 05:45

CRamS wrote:Its because of Indain state's ineptitude that TSP has been able to get away with this fraud, and why USA so seamlessly and effortlessly sweeps Paki terrorism against India under the rug.

Well let me put it this way. One man's dhimmitude is another man's ineptitude. Several generations of Indians grew up believing that Britain was right and fair and that Indian's were - well SDRE and useless. We are looking at a change of attitude about Britain that has occurred over the span of just 30-40 years - which is well within the lifespan of many BRFites. I lived in Britain at a time when the UK's GDP was 3x that of India. I went out of a country of telegrams and no telephones to a country where there were no telegrams, but telephones from where you could make international calls at every street corner.

The same degree of dhimmitude has existed among Indians who went to the US as well - I see it most strongly among those who went in the 60s and 70s.

Self assertion and self respect can only come from a feeling of being useful and productive - a feeling that educated Indians got only after going to the UK or USA in those days. 25 years later we realize that we have been "had". Cognitive dissonance in other words. All those days of being made to feel useful and wanted in Britain were merely wool being pulled over one's eyes as Pakis were living on the dole even then and collecting dole money for Cashmere while Britain haughtily lectured admiring Hindus about equality, democracy and fairness.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 29 Apr 2011 06:07

@Shiv ^^^ : "Self assertion and self respect can only come from a feeling of being useful and productive - a feeling that educated Indians got only after going to the UK or USA in those days. 25 years later we realize that we have been "had".

By whom is the question. There were no jobs in India for my generation and presumably yours. Why did we go abroad in the first place? Why did you go abroad?

We were 'had' by a system that 'educated' us and then forced us into patronage jobs in India or to go abroad.

Britain or US. It was a welcome refuge. Illusion of usefulness in UK or US versus complete irrelevance in India. That was what the 1960s/70s were all about for people I knew and was.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Apr 2011 06:09

RajeshA wrote:
shiv wrote:Bullshit. Part of the problem, believe me - is Britain and the huge bunch of PoK Kashmiris in Britain. This article makes a mention of that too. The second in the last week
I know I will be taken to the cleaners for this comment, but here goes! Part of the problem is that Indians in Britain are either

more loyal than the king; or are

Indians who came from Africa or West Indies, and thus do not identify themselves too strongly with India; or are

Indians who have more subnational feelings than national, they are Gujaratis, Punjabis, Bengalis, Telegu, etc.; or are

simply disinterested in matters related to India, and busy with their lives.
There are of course exceptions, but I mean at a level of a dedicated lobby raising awareness about matters of concern to India and putting pressure on British politicians to pay attention to those interests.

With the numbers of Indians in UK, and with their financial resources, it would otherwise be difficult to think that Muli-in-Bunds can act so anti-Indian and almost become leader of Labour.

I do not wish to flame-bait anybody! Just urging every Indian in UK to get their act together and see to it that Indian interests outweigh even those of Britain in the eyes of a British politician! These Mirpuris need to be neutralized!

The odd thing about Britain is that it gives on the impression that it encourages good behavior. What Pakis did was not to behave but to pretend to be Indian - so that Indiots in Britain had to work extra hard to get a good reputation. Bad behavior was Asian. Every Indian knew it was "Paki" and not Asian but Britain refused to see it as Paki. It was "Asian"

For the British "Asian" meant
1) Corner shops
2) Mill workers and doctors
3) Bollywood
4) Curry
5) Hindu caste system
6) Indian oppression of Cashmere

Note that Islamism and Islamic extremism that formed the basis of creation of Pakistan was nowhere in the picture - because it was the islamist extremists in Britain who were blended with Indians when it came to curry, corner shops and cinema, but were shrill opponents of the Hindu extremism. Britain of course was quite receptive to the idea that teh oddball Hindus could be anti-Muslim. That the poor ickle Moslems, people of the book like you and me could be the problem did not occur at all to the Brits and it if it did they did not show it.

I recall posting on here that I cheered with joy when 9-11 occurred and I now realise that my joy was not misplaced. The West in general had a blind spot towards islamic extremism. After the Crusades, "Christendom" - i.e the west reached a degree of acceptance, peace and accommodation with Dar-ul-Islam where both were more or less agreed about the undesirability of jews and other oddball creatures like Hindus but accepted each other. Secular democratic politics pushed these feelings below the surface - so there was not even a spark realization of what Islamic extremism means. Perhaps the west feared a return to the bad old days when Christian extremism was just as bad. 9-11 and its aftermath certainly opened a lot of eyes and my joy was justified.

So among Asians in Britain they had lots of refugees. Refugees from Cashmere. Refugees from Uganda and other African nations. A lot of the people from the latter two nations had been in Africa before partition so they were all "Indians" (or Asians) (British Indians) - even if some had families in post 1947 India, some in Pakistan and some across both sides. Britain could not see Asians as two countries, but could see them as two religions where one set - the Muslims needed a new country and were under threat from Hindus. This view was continuously reinforced by refugees after 1947.

Unlike the self image of an SDRE Indian emigrant to the UK who did not understand these nuances - it was the Hindu who was the bigot, the extremist. Oh yes he could be civilized. But if allowed to revert he would be a bigot and do bad things to Muslims. This viewpoint is only now becoming clear to Indians who are now suffering from mass cognitive dissonance as they begin to understand how they have been taken for a ride.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Apr 2011 06:19

Cosmo_R wrote:@Shiv ^^^ : "Self assertion and self respect can only come from a feeling of being useful and productive - a feeling that educated Indians got only after going to the UK or USA in those days. 25 years later we realize that we have been "had".

By whom is the question. There were no jobs in India for my generation and presumably yours. Why did we go abroad in the first place? Why did you go abroad?

We were 'had' by a system that 'educated' us and then forced us into patronage jobs in India or to go abroad.

Britain or US. It was a welcome refuge. Illusion of usefulness in UK or US versus complete irrelevance in India. That was what the 1960s/70s were all about for people I knew and was.

That is exactly what I am saying. And because going abroad and working cheap (Britains healthcare costs were definitely reduced by Indian doctors) gave such hope to SDRE's they went there and put up with nonsense even as their families in India did not want anything that would upset the applecart.

While it is easy to criticize those who went abroad and lived like mice it needs to be recognised that they were real humans with families in India whom they fed and helped. British influence is smaller nowadays but even today hundreds of thousands of Indian families root for America because their sons and daughters are there. Indians living in America are a mixed bunch. Some are MUTU, and others have a more "Indian nationalist" viewpoint. But the MUTU Indians are not isolated. They have families in India and support them making it necessary for them to behave American while their families endorse and support that. It is a two way love affair. It is easy to sit in India and be "nationalistic" and criticise the MUTU Indians and equally easy to sit in the US, be an "indian nationalist" and be critical of the supporters of MUTU Indians as lacking self respect. But they are two sides of the same coin. And t is a result of both colonial dhimmitude and relative poverty and a desire to make an honest living that perpetuates these attitudes.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 29 Apr 2011 06:22

Pakistan initiates Peshawar-Jalalabad railway project

Pakistan has initiated a pre-feasibility study for a rail line between Peshawar and the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad and has requested Asian Development Bank (ADB) assistance in evaluating the route’s feasibility.

The pre-feasibility study will be completed in 2 months, after which Pakistan Railways will initiate the feasibility study, Aftab Akbar, director of planning for Pakistan’s Ministry of Railways, told Central Asia Online.

“Many international donors are interested in this project and we have requested ADB assistance in the … study,” Aftab said.

Pakistan and Afghanistan signed a memorandum of understanding in July for a feasibility study on establishing Torkham-Jalalabad and Chaman-Spinboldak-Kandahar rail links. The Chaman feasibility study has been done, Aftab said.

Pakistan Railways (PR) also has completed a feasibility study on building a rail link from Gwadar to the existing rail network in Mastung district in Balochistan.

PR management is trying to link Central Asia to Pakistan through Afghanistan.

Now these bhikaris dont have money to run and maintain lines gifted by British and they want to build one to Afganistan

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 29 Apr 2011 06:27

Now Samjoutha Express brings drug worth Rs. 15 crore from Pakistan

Indian Custom Department seized 3 kilogram heroin (drug) which was smuggled from Pakistan through the Samjoutha Express Train here Thursday

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 29 Apr 2011 06:46

@Shiv^^^: "Indians living in America are a mixed bunch. Some are MUTU, and others have a more "Indian nationalist" viewpoint. But the MUTU Indians are not isolated. They have families in India and support them making it necessary for them to behave American while their families endorse and support that. It is a two way love affair."

Like all two way love affairs, you accept and cherish the imperfections of the other to set them off against the perfection.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Apr 2011 07:19

India & Pakistan to explore preferential trade deal

India and Pakistan on Thursday made a significant breakthrough on increasing trade relations by agreeing to explore the possibility of a preferential trade deal, relax curbs on investment and banking and ease the rules for issuing business visas {Needless to say that India will have to be extremely careful here. We don't want Headley & Rana types directly from TSP}.

Though Pakistan did not agree to grant most favoured nation status to India, a joint statement following commerce secretary-level talks did mention that Islamabad recognized that this move would help bilateral trade. In addition, it has agreed to replace the present system of having a "positive list" with a negative list in a step aimed at trading in more commodities.

As per the agreed minutes of the two-day talks held in Islamabad, India's commerce secretary Rahul Khullar and his Pakistani counterpart Zafar Mahmoood took 19 decisions, including the ones in key areas like examining feasibility of cross-border trade in electricity and all types of petroleum products.

The mention of relaxation of investment and banking restrictions are significant as India does not allow investment by companies from across the border and similarly banks are not permitted to operate in India. The move comes despite several companies with operations in Pakistan being under the scanner for possible links with the terror groups. {Looks like a foolish move from GoI. One after another, we are undermining ourselves wrt TSP. Where is the need for a mad rush ?}

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 29 Apr 2011 07:24

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/29/world ... nted=print

Move to C.I.A. Puts Petraeus in Conflict With Pakistan
By JANE PERLEZand ERIC SCHMITT

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The appointment of Gen. David H. Petraeus as director of the Central Intelligence Agency puts him more squarely than ever in conflict with Pakistan, whose military leadership does not regard him as a friend and where he will now have direct control over the armed drone campaign that the Pakistani military says it wants stopped.

Pakistani and American officials said that General Petraeus’s selection could further inflame relations between the two nations, which are already at one of their lowest points, with recriminations over myriad issues aired publicly like never before.

The usually secretive leader of the Pakistani Army, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, has made little secret of his distaste for General Petraeus, calling him a political general. General Petraeus has privately expressed outrage at what American officials say is the Pakistani main spy agency’s most blatant support yet for fighters based in Pakistan who are carrying out attacks against American troops in Afghanistan.

Officials on both sides say they expect the two nations’ relationship to become increasingly adversarial as they maneuver the endgame in Afghanistan, where Pakistan and the United States have deep — and conflicting — security interests.

Repairing the frayed ties between the C.I.A. and Pakistan’s primary spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, will be difficult, American officials say. “In its current form, the relationship is almost unworkable,” said Dennis C. Blair, a former American director of national intelligence. “There has to be a major restructuring. The ISI jams the C.I.A. all it wants and pays no penalties.”

In a private meeting here in Islamabad last week, Admiral Mullen told General Kayani that the C.I.A. would not reduce the drone strikes until Pakistan launched a military operation against the Haqqani network in Pakistan’s tribal areas, an American official said, pleas that the admiral has been making for the past two years with nothing to show for them.

Pakistan’s military and its intelligence agency are increasingly embarrassed by the United States’ drone campaign, which they publicly condemn but quietly allow. They have asked the C.I.A. to remove its personnel from Shamsi air base, about 200 miles southwest of Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan Province, where some of the drones are based, a senior American official said.

The withdrawal has not occurred but is expected soon, the official said. The drone attacks would then be flown out of Afghanistan, where some of them are already based, the official said.

There have also been sharp disagreements over a proposed code of conduct that would define what American soldiers and intelligence agents can do in Pakistani territory, a Pakistani official said. The Pakistanis have, for now, dropped the idea of such an accord, fearing that the Americans are looking for “legal cover” for intelligence operatives like Raymond A. Davis, the C.I.A. contractor who killed two Pakistanis in January, a Pakistani official said.

“The relationship between the two countries is very tense right now,” said Representative William M. Thornberry of Texas, a senior Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, who visited Pakistan last week. “And the Pakistan government fuels the anti-American public opinion to increase pressure on us.”

Newly disclosed documents obtained by WikiLeaks have also stoked tensions. One of them, from the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, lists the ISI along with numerous militant groups as allies of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, an indication of how deep American suspicions run when it comes to Pakistani intelligence. The document is undated but appears to be from 2007 or 2008.

A former general said the alliance established after 9/11 to get rid of Al Qaeda on Pakistani soil was built on shaky ground, with few aligning interests beyond stopping the terrorist group. Tensions over issues big and small — like accounting for American grants to the Pakistani military and the failure of the United States to deliver helicopters that would help in counterterrorism efforts — clouded the hastily arranged alliance from the start, he said.

But now the collision of interests over how to end the war in Afghanistan, and the bitterness over the Davis affair, have exposed deep-seated differences, he said.

The drone campaign, which the C.I.A. has run against militants in Pakistan’s tribal areas since 2004, will now become the preserve of General Petraeus, and it has moved to center stage, at least for the Pakistanis. Since Mr. Davis’s release from custody in Pakistan after the killings, the C.I.A. has carried out three drone attacks, each one seemingly tied to sensitive events in the United States-Pakistan relationship and aimed at Afghan Taliban militants that Pakistan shelters.

The day after Admiral Mullen left Pakistan last week, a drone attack in North Waziristan killed 23 people associated with Hafiz Gul Barhadur, whose forces are fighting NATO in Afghanistan. Earlier in April, after Lt. Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, the ISI chief, left Washington, a drone attacked another group of Afghan Taliban.

Another former Pakistani general who speaks to General Kayani said he believed that the Pakistan Army’s leader had concluded that the drone campaign should end because it hurt the army’s reputation among the Pakistani public. Those being killed by the drones are of midlevel or even lesser importance, the general said.

The Americans say the drones are more important than ever as a tool to stanch the flow of Taliban foot soldiers coming across the border to fight American and NATO forces.

The easy access into Afghanistan was on full display last week in Wana, the main town of South Waziristan, according to a local resident.

There, militants loyal to Maulvi Nazir, a Taliban leader who maintains a peace agreement with the Pakistani military and whose forces often cross into Afghanistan, showed high morale and were moving around freely in front of the Pakistani Army, the resident said. “It looked,” he said, “as though the army was giving them a free hand.”

Jane Perlez reported from Islamabad, and Eric Schmitt from Washington. Ismail Khan contributed reporting from Peshawar, Pakistan, and Scott Shane from Washington.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 29 Apr 2011 08:10

abhishek_sharma wrote:Lashkar-e-Taiba: Past Operations and Future Prospects

These guys discussed 'Al Qaeda and Its Affiliates'. Video is available here. I couldn't find the transcripts.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 29 Apr 2011 08:39

Pakistan's Persian Gulf balancing act

http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... ancing_act

Can the IMF make Pakistan collect taxes?

http://bosco.foreignpolicy.com/posts/20 ... lect_taxes

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 29 Apr 2011 09:19

shyamd wrote:No agreement will last if there is no commercial side to it. This is just diplomacy 101 taking place. MMS is no sell out - he just doesnt do a lot of lambasting like maybe others are used to - He was quietly working away to checkmate certain adversaries of ours. Trust me on this.

Brilliant post! We need such balanced views in the face of non-stop whining rona-dhona posts.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 29 Apr 2011 09:22

Analysis: Petraeus' CIA move raises awkward questions

Petraeus, the architect of the current U.S. strategy in Afghanistan, is expected as CIA director to embrace the campaign of drone strikes in Pakistan, a nominally covert CIA operation that has fueled anti-American sentiment but put heavy pressure on militant safe havens.

Continuing or stepping up drone attacks is likely to further strain relations between the CIA and Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence directorate (ISI) and, according to some experts, possibly exacerbate the awkward personal chemistry between Petraeus and top Pakistani officials.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Apr 2011 10:05

From the nutty nation: IAF losing edge over PAF. The authors are Indian Shiv Aroor and Durga Nandini.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 29 Apr 2011 10:15

shiv wrote:For the British "Asian" meant
1) Corner shops
2) Mill workers and doctors
3) Bollywood
4) Curry
5) Hindu caste system
6) Indian oppression of Cashmere

Extremely important that UK is forced to adopt a terminology which differentiates Indians from Pakistanis (and UK Bangladeshis). BTW, in Germany the term "Asians/Asiaten" is reserved for East Asians. Also we need to get rid of "South Asian"! It is better to simply use the words like Indics and Subcontinental Muslims!

All this averaging and generalizing has to end!

I am in fact in favor of some EU wide ordinance which also prohibits those with Pakistani background from using the Indian brand - in restaurants and cuisine, in food stores, in Bollywood parties! Indian Govt. now that they are favoring Raphael and Eurofighter can use some of its new clout to get this done!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Apr 2011 10:43

RajeshA wrote:All this averaging and generalizing has to end!

Rajesh, absolutely. The Pakistanis have been able to mask their villainous identity under this South Asian tag abroad even as they tell their citizens at home that they are descendants of the Syeds form Najd & Hejaz or those from Central Asia and Turkey etc. Secondly, by appropriating an identity which the 'inner Pakistaniyat' is not proud of at all, they bring disrepute to the Indians who make up six times the Pakistani population. GoI must constantly din into UK/EU/US ears that Indians must be denoted separately.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Apr 2011 10:47

SS and Rajesh,

If I may take a contrarian position on this. The Pakistani behaviour also presents an opportunity as well in terms of destroying the Asian myth and replace it with the Indian reality. Ie the goog and the bad and the Ughl become part of the Indian Identity. That In turn will eliminate the Mindshare the TSP has in the UQ.

JMT

ashkrishna · Post by **ashkrishna** » 29 Apr 2011 10:56

CRamS wrote:From the nutty nation: IAF losing edge over PAF. The authors are Indian Shiv Aroor and Durga Nandini.

Make a few changes to the grammar and spelling here and there and this article will be an automatic fit in the BENIS thread