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RajeshA wrote:Operation Enduring Freedom was initiated because it was thought that the Taliban Govt. in Afghanistan played host to Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda!
It turns out that Pakistani Army was the host of Osama bin Laden all this time, since then and previously through their proxies in Afghanistan! So what kind of Operation would be called out now against Pakistan!
The most important thing to do now, as shiv saar has been saying, is to repeat it again and again and again, that it was the Pakistani Army who provided safe haven to Osama bin Laden!
US media is speculating in that direction.
X posted from the Pakistan Role in Global Terrorism thread.
With Osama Bin Laden having been tracked down and executed by the US in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the US media raises the question of the complicity of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in sheltering Islamic terrorist Osama Bin laden.
The Los Angeles Time in an article Alex Rodriguez titled “Suspicions grow over whether Pakistan aided Osama bin Laden” and datelined May 2, 2011:
geo tv
Explosion heard in Charsadda
Updated at: 1527 PST, Monday, May 02, 2011
CHARSADDA: An explosion was heard in Umarzai area here, Geo News reported. (More details to follow)
When was the last time, that Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri really asked Taliban to consider Pakistani Army as wajib ul-qatl?
Why hasn't he repeated the message lately?
I would think, that till Musharraf was in charge, there was an ISI constituency which provided OBL with cover and support. ISI was under Ashfaq Kiyani between October 2004 and October 2007. During this time Kiyani was aware of ISI support to OBL. On November 29th, 2007 Kiyani became CoAS!
After Musharraf left the field, and Kiyani started making effective policy, Ayman al-Zawahiri stopped encouraging jihadis from attacking Pakistani Armed forces.
So basically Kiyani has personally ensured that Osama bin Laden remains safe and out of America's cross hairs. Musharraf may be given the benefit of the doubt, but Kiyani is definitely a TERRORIST friend, and thus a TERRORIST!
Am pretty sure that personnel involved were of Hispanic origin, I feel that resistance from local area would have been more if they saw caucasian Americans at the vicinity. Obviously, the team had to instil a sense of uncertainty whether the personnel were Indian or American within the compound and TSPA's sorrounding establishments.
According to Gagan ji's post, we can be certain that Hispanic American personnel speaking good Pashto were mistaken for being Indian by the locals/eyewitnesses/bystanders. Possibly, even their uniforms and the Apache chopper had all US insignia removed. This is where the reference to Indian chopper appears in early reports on this thread.
Note that this does not dismiss the still likely possibility of USN submarine docking in Goa playing a part in this.
26/11 is a Kiyani job.
He was ISI chief during which it was planned and fine tuned. Dawood Geelani was being given missions to keep going back to India during the time that Kiyani was ISI Chief.
Something this big needs the Pakistani COAS's permission to go ahead.
And finally that 26/11 operation got carried out when Kiyani became COAS.
I think the reverse - caucasians - local police, army cadets and militias will hide under bed. hispanics / indians means all will be coming out ak47s to defend against the kafir.
Again, Nothing drastic will happen and life will go on as always for US, India, TSP, ISI/PA.
USA did what they promised they would do 10 Years back. Now back to work. Nobody will be bombed back to stoneage and no one will have his/her head presented on the platter.
The SSN parked in Goa. I don't think was involved.
If OBL was taken to a ship in the sea, that would be an aircraft carrier. The US does have a carrier battle group parked off pakistan/Iran coast.
The US has small passanger planes that land and take off their aircraft carriers. So if OBL was taken to Bagram AFB, then put on a plane and flown to a USN carrier. Then dumped into the sea.
What are the most important aspects of pulling off an operations like this?
1) Element of Surprise
2) Element of Surprise
3) Element of Surprise
Reading from above... If all Paki radars were jammed... there is NO surprise as there will hue and cry within minutes. All high value target will go on Plan B.
Heli could have taken off from a Paki airfield. But they surely didn't carry SF. Because such aircrafts will be monitored BIG time.
UBanerjee wrote:Problem with outright fabrication is, you can never fabricate something like this if its so easily proven wrong ...
The fact that the relatively unscathed building 7 fell suddenly at free fall acceleration, with the fall being announced on the mainstream outlets 20 minutes ahead of time, will not bother those who want to believe that "Al Qaeda did 9/11". Facts hardly matter to such folks.
enough CT mongering. follow thread discipline or post elsewhere.
Rahul.
Last edited by Rahul M on 02 May 2011 17:02, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:user warned.
UBanerjee wrote:Problem with outright fabrication is, you can never fabricate something like this if its so easily proven wrong ...
The fact that the relatively unscathed building 7 fell suddenly at free fall acceleration, with the fall being announced on the mainstream outlets 20 minutes ahead of time, will hardly bother those who want to believe that "Al Qaeda did 9/11". Facts hardly matter to such folks.
9/11 violated the space-time continuum according to 400% proof provided by physics only & Joos didn't go to work that day either.
It's really amazing the things we do for entertainment.
Pranav wrote:
The fact that the relatively unscathed building 7 fell suddenly at free fall acceleration, with the fall being announced on the mainstream outlets 20 minutes ahead of time, will hardly bother those who want to believe that "Al Qaeda did 9/11". Facts hardly matter to such folks.
9/11 violated the space-time continuum according to 400% proof provided by physics only & Joos didn't go to work that day either.
It's really amazing the things we do for entertainment.
Carry on with the festivities! I will not interrupt again
Hours ago - this morning there was a Paki reporter in Abbottabad on Indian TV who stated that
1) Only "two brothers" were known to live there
2) The Americans came and went before the Pakistanian security forces arrived
3) Some people have been arrested
Taking off from Tarbela means that the Pakistanis Knew - Kiyani knew and they gave OBL up to the US.
Would say they were FORCED to give him up since no way in hell would TSPA agree to publicly show to the world that Osama was shot dead and his palatial safehouse was only 100 yards from the premier TSPA military academy in a cantonment . If it was a deal, both parties would have agreed to take Osama to NWFP etc and show him as being shot there..
tarbela is not just any PA army cantt. its also one of the training bases of the SSG. and the SEALS are those with whom SSG has trained the most since good old days of 1979...
I know helis can be refueled in flight but I doubt it can be done at tree top level. And if they fly high for the fuel then the radar cover would be blown. May be they took off from one of the bases US is operating inside Pakistan? Or are they too far from Abbotobad?
Anujan wrote:Al Jazeera reports that OBL was staying in the compound for FIVE years. Means he was staying there when Mushy made his famous statement that OBL is not in Pakistan.
Or when he appeared on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart in September 2006.
IIRC there was some vague news that JSOC or some US commando forces are in Tarbela for the last few years.
1. The JSOC / Navy Seals team (Navy Seal team can train in the lake of Tarbela Dam so not much suspicion) boards helos saying they are headed back to Bagram Airbase in Afghanistan.
2. Instead they head into Abbottabad, which is about 10 mins flying distance from Tarbela.
3. The operation is carried out.
I am sure that there are Global Hawks high up in the air, and some Predators which approach at the 11th hour.
40 minutes on the ground is a long enough time.
4. Some soldiers form a cordon and shoo away any interested onlookers. They also are scared that neighbouring houses migh house OBL's security team.
5. OBL would have been killed in the first 10-15mins of this, the rest of the time for clearing out the whole building. A snatch team would have taken OBL's body to one of the helos, while others circled the area to take out any approaching outside help. The US is scared that PMA kamra might mobilize troops, but they also know the reaction time will be close to an hour.
So the snatch team takes OBL body onto a chopper which flies off into the night headed for Bagram.
6. One of the choppers might have been damaged, because OBL's bodyguards are firing RPGs from the roof. That choppers is damaged and won't be able to make it to afghanistan, it might be losing fuel etc, so they land it, the pilots boot out into another helo, and that helo is destroyed.
7. The rest of the team does the mopping operation, taking photos and videos, killing / capturing alive anyone else in the compound. They also collect evidence about any future planned attacks. I am sure some intel has been gathered. If some abdul has informed OBL about some impending operation, there would be some info available with OBL.
8. And after 40 mins everyone is out of there.
9. Kiyani is informed that they have taken out OBL at Kakul, right after kiyani is told by the CO PMA Kakul that there has possibly been an attack at OBL's location at Kakul - there are Helos flying all over the place, the americans are there.
One of OBL's wives and daughters have been captured alive it seems. And they have made a statement that they saw OBL also fight with his men, and till they were captured, OBL was alive and fighting the americans.
I hope someone makes a film on the whole operation that is very accurate. It will be wonderful to watch.
Last edited by Gagan on 02 May 2011 17:21, edited 1 time in total.
Was speaking to a GoI close chap- he says possible ISI top brass plus kiyanahi was in the know, but too many AQ sympathisers there for them to be involved in op.
He says helicopters took off from Bagram, jammed radars. Let's see.
So its Obama can argue OBL taken out, AQ weak. We won, time to pull out. KSA says we will protect interests in Afghanistan I.e we will support taleban in exchange for u supporting us.
Now focus can shift to Iran.
ISI top brass can now maintain strong plausible deniability to its own officers.
Maybe top brass were afraid of people joining TTP alliance, so gave em up without anyone raising suspicion, who knows maybe they were afraid of coup even!.
But it was obvious unkil knew for a long time where he was.
Or Kiyani was informed just before or during the Operation, and told to not do anything or else there would be repercussions directed personally at him.
shiv wrote:Hours ago - this morning there was a Paki reporter in Abbottabad on Indian TV who stated that
1) Only "two brothers" were known to live there
2) The Americans came and went before the Pakistanian security forces arrived
3) Some people have been arrested
Oh - I forgot. The house has been there for 7 years.
It was the SEAL Team Six or DEVGRU which did the hit job - a Tier I SpecOps units in US Special Operations Forces parlance. Along with Delta Force, trained and mandated for 'Black Ops'.
The helicopters coming from Indian soil seem too far fetched. For one, even a minutest ******-up by way of detection would lead to PAF ORP getting airborne in minutes. While it is very well with-in USAF to map the radar coverage and associated gaps in pakistan to chart a route from India to Pakistan, this is way too risky. On theother hand, PAF does not expect aircraft to ingress from west - what ever coverage will there be , will be for keeping tab on air traffic movement - not exactly the kind to get hold of nap-of-eartg flying choppers - and that too by people who would most probably be from Night Stalkers kind of squadron. Also, uncle would have mapped evey possible radar coverage and ELINT/SIGINT footprint in the area to take care of surprises.
As per twitter reports by people in the area - PA seems to have moved in quickly once the firefight started. But then you can do only that much when the operation itself was over in 40minutes. Remember, this is a peace location. The infantry regiments would need easily 1hour to get their act together - there would hardly have been any QRT in the area.
The US does these ops with Predator cover.
The radar jamming was with two purposes:
1. Protect the helo's ingress and egress from Abbottabad.
2. Protect intel that Predators / Global Hawks are approaching the area earlier.
^^ Is there any "peace location" without QRTs in any military area of Pak, given that TTP has hit virtually most bases atleast once? Even 40 minutes is a huge time given that most stations will be decently guarded due to TTP threats!!
