Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2011

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 May 2011 19:25

Eric Margolis' Uvacaha and Verbal Diahrrea

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 May 2011 19:26

the mirages are configured for ground attack i thought?
for interception, would they not use f-16's and the mig21 clones?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 May 2011 19:27

Pakistan institutes an award in memory of Late Nirmala Deshpande

It is pertinent to mention here that Deshpande died on May 1, 2008 and her love for the people of Pakistan was proved by her last wish to have her ashes immersed in the River Indus. The contribution of Didi Nirmala Deshpande for peace and friendship between Pakistan and India is unmatched.

She used her influence as a renowned Gandhian, peace activist and parliamentarian to persuade the governments of India and Pakistan at the highest level, to help promote the peace process. Even when the negative sentiments ran high, she always passionately pleaded for friendship and dialogue with Pakistan.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 May 2011 19:33

SSridhar wrote:There have been many occasions in the past when questions have been raised about Pakistan and yet the US-TSP relationship has remained intact. In 1998, Pakistan betrayed American cruise missile attacks to bin Laden. Lt. Gen Mahmood Ahmed, ISI Chief, wired 100,000 USD through Omar Saeed Sheikh to the 9/11 terrorists. Earlier, in c. 1993, they refused to collect back the Stinger missiles and came close to being branded as a terrorist state by the Americans. The same gentleman, when sent in to negotiate surrender terms with the Taliban, did the opposite. Since c. 2002, on numerous occasions, US Commanders have openly accused the PA/ISI of conspiracy, double-cross and distrust. The Pakistanis have openly protected the Quetta & the Haqqani Shura even withstanding tremendous pressure and threats from the US and refused to take any action against them. These are in recent times, but if we study their relationship for 50 years now, the pattern has been similar. The US-TSP relationship may go through ups and downs and we SDREs may interpret that in our own way, but this relationship has an enduring quality about it.

It all boils down to the US President.

Despite my intolerable boredom with the US presidential campaign - I have been forced to follow the elections of at least the last 8 US presidents and I note that the US puts in a great deal of effort into the election - like a man humping extra vigorously just before he ejaculates. Once elected the President word is God's word. When one of the best Presidents that the US has ever had in its history, namely George W Bush states that "Pakistan is an ally" Americans believe it and the US media push that. The news that Pakistan is shafting the US is somehow ignored because the President, the product of a collective US orgasm is saying that Pakistan is an ally. That is how the US works, They are like that onlee.

In India the PM is a far away guy whom you did not vote for. You don't believe word he says. Not for the US Pres though. Big difference.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 03 May 2011 19:47

US feared Pak could mistake American raid to kill Osama bin Laden for India attack

A small question (Pls. excuse if discussed earlier). Did the US inform India of the operation ? If so then what would be the probable time..

Considering it happened so close to the LOC and there was a huge risk of the Pakis reading it as an Indian attack !

Another question - If the US did inform the Pakis (the guys who mattered) then did the Pakis ask for and get information on the position of Indian forces as proof.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 May 2011 19:53

I posted a comment to Zardari's standard farticle on Washington Post, under name bzbody.
Here's the link to the comment page

If you can, do the needful, with boosting, starting a discussion, etc.

Here's the text of the comment:

To paraphrase Maxwell Smart, "the ol' suicide bomber as victim, parricide as orphan pity party, eh?"

Let's not play games any more, Mr. Zardari, shall we? Pakistan's entire so-called victimhood consists of blowback from nurturing terrorists for use against India, and later the West. But of course, Pakistan's venomous pets also "scored" a few thousand Indian, American, European, Australian, and African lives among others.

The still-remaining terrorists Mr. Zardari is talking about include Lashkar-e-Taiba (an organization that the US administration declared to be terrorist) killers like Hafeez Saeed, Dawood Ibrahim, Mahmood Azhar, all walking around free as the air in Pakistan, for all to see. These are the ones who slaughtered the people of Mumbai, India, along with selectively targeted Americans and Jews, in November 2008.

We need to ask Mr. Zardari, and while we are at it, Congress and the Obama administration, why we, the American taxpayers, continue to pay Pakistan billions of our hard-earned and much-needed money so that they can continue to pretend to fight terrorists. Let's not be fooled, yet again, when Mr. Zardari and his Pakistan dusts off standard alibis like this, whenever they worry that the American people might be catching on to their game.

Here's the reality. For Pakistan, their soldiers' and civilian deaths are only the cost of doing business. The business in this case is akin to blackmailing the world with toxic assets and nuclear weapons; when you are dealing with such deadly and volatile assets, some of your own are bound to get killed, and that's all the better from Pakistan's cynical point of view, since those deaths can then be used to appeal to the humanity of the very people they are blackmailing.

What a con. Shame on us the American people, the US Congress, and the Obama administration, if we fall for it all yet again.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 19:54

He was there for the last 5 years : npr

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 May 2011 19:56

Manish_P wrote: A small question (Pls. excuse if discussed earlier). Did the US inform India of the operation ? If so then what would be the probable time..

No information on US having told India and better not to forget that Ombaba himself categorically said (as other did later) that no one knew other than a small group in the USA.

The things that intrigues me is the fact that they were watching live feed in the White House or Pentagon. That means that images were being beamed up from the Laden compound. Normally such signals would be picked up by normal electronic surveillance. The fact that Pakis probably did not pick it up suggests that this was a super secure frequency hopping data channel. I just wonder if Indian electronic snooping, or the Chinese or the Russian picked up any unusual activity at about that time.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 May 2011 19:59

Fox news pushing the idea hard that 'President' Bush, Cheney and torture killed bin laden.

- Most analyst gloomily agree relationship with 'ally' Pakistan will not really change.
- Aid money must continue.
- Its bad marriage 'only'. No matter that one is trying to kill other. Psychotic.
- Neighbors in Abbotabad proud to have had bin laden there. America is dark satan only for killing him.
- Huqqani on NPR admitted there are elements within the Govt & people that are sympathetic to Jihad. Next sentence, If we knew he was there we would have got him.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 May 2011 20:05

Have been following NPR for past 2 days to get a pulse of how the power circles are planning to react to Paki's double cross. Looks like Unkil is trying to brush everything under the carpet. Statements range from "they need to answer all these questions"{bid for time so that public anger is lost to next issue} , "they have lost lot of lives for our cause" {give them credit for fudged up figures without pointing who created these bunnies in first place}to "the other option of leaving them is more dangerous bcos they have nooks" now that is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. Sadly that seems to be the mood on the hill.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 20:06

good point shiv, even it was picked up.. it would be interesting to study the report, to how much deeper we can snoop. If none, then there is lot more we have to do on that front.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 May 2011 20:06

Lalmohan wrote:the mirages are configured for ground attack i thought?
for interception, would they not use f-16's and the mig21 clones?

Probably they wanted to bum that compound before/while the US forces are there. They could have argued that 'the moment we realized the location of OBL, we just bummed him'

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 May 2011 20:29

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

Salman Rushdie in an article in the Daily Beast with the blurb “Are we really supposed to believe that Pakistan didn’t know Osama bin Laden was living there for five years? Salman Rushdie on why it’s time to declare the country a terrorist state“:

Salman Rushdie: Pakistan's Deadly Game

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 03 May 2011 20:31

Arnab Goswami has done it !!!
He has called pakistan a Terrorist State.

Avik · Post by **Avik** » 03 May 2011 20:35

Here's something I dont understand:

Musharraf was running Pakistan from 1999 to 2008. Osama Bin Laden moved into Abbottabad in 2005/06. So, all this arrangement was taken care of when he was the President. After all, Kayani was Musharraf's most loyal dog as DG ISI.

Now, Musharraf stays in central London, with protection from the UK Govt. So, if the US or the UK really wants to get to the bottom of this, why dont they just haul him in? Isnt that easier than all the meaningless bloviating being indulged in by Cameron and Ombaba?

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 May 2011 20:39

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

Foreign Policy cover story listing the denials of the leaders of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan that Osama Bin Laden had taken refuge in that country:

Osama bin Who? : A decade of denials and downplaying from Pakistani leaders

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 20:41

Put musharraf in a jail, and everything will reveal!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 May 2011 20:58

Avik wrote:Here's something I dont understand:

Musharraf was running Pakistan from 1999 to 2008. Osama Bin Laden moved into Abbottabad in 2005/06. So, all this arrangement was taken care of when he was the President. After all, Kayani was Musharraf's most loyal dog as DG ISI.

Now, Musharraf stays in central London, with protection from the UK Govt. So, if the US or the UK really wants to get to the bottom of this, why dont they just haul him in? Isnt that easier than all the meaningless bloviating being indulged in by Cameron and Ombaba?

I suspect Musharraf allowed PALs on Pakistan's nukes.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 May 2011 21:00

^^^ or atleast on some of them
they have kept a few in reserve

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 03 May 2011 21:00

SaiK wrote:Put musharraf in a jail, and everything will reveal!

They dont have to put musharraf in a jail to have everything out. He probably squealed everything already in the first deal.

Let us remember, when Mushy was pulled out of Pakistan, it was a entirely US decided and run move for their own compulsions. (To be able to support Pakistan with least domestic fallout for a non performing ally) -- why would their ally not tell them everything in the first place.

US owns Pakistan (most institutional assets) -- US tried for the longest time to get a closure WITH Paki help in the Af-Pak goals. Only after the Paki's failed to perform they had to step in themselves.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 May 2011 21:09

Screws are finally turning on pa'astan, slowly.
Frenemies: U.S. ally in hot seat after bin Laden found in Pakistani army town

In other words--gimme a break.

Welcome, in other words, to the twilight zone alliance between the United States and Pakistan: alleged allies who sometimes seem to be double-crossing enemies--or what American high school students would call frenemies.

Yes, "gimmme" a break but "lemme" keep my eyes wide open from here on. For many Americans, this date (of finding OBL alive and well in Pakiland) is synonymous with 7 December 1941. It will prove to be a turning point in our relations with that pit.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 03 May 2011 21:33

X posting from the Death of OBL thread;

Even in the late 1990s, the Deobandi groups (unlike the LeT) were far more enthusiastic and inspired by OBL than the PA. The PA needed a relationship with OBL to manage them.

It seems logical to me that one of the biggest reasons that the PA would have wanted to provide top cover for OBL since 2007 (despite his calls to overthrow the Pakistani state) was as leverage, and as a channel to moderate the Pakiban.

The Pakiban shot Khalid Khwaja, and much more shockingly, Colonel Imam (Hamid Gul wouldnt have fared much better).

It is not surprising then that the Pakiban has reportedly called off the truce after the US killing of OBL. This may be America's big break in pushing the PA in to North Waziristan as well.

Even in the late 1990s, the Deobandi groups (unlike the LeT) were far more enthusiastic and inspired by OBL than the PA. The PA needed a relationship with OBL to manage them.

It seems logical to me that one of the biggest reasons that the PA would have wanted to provide top cover for OBL since 2007 (despite his calls to overthrow the Pakistani state) was as leverage, and as a channel to moderate the Pakiban.

The Pakiban shot Khalid Khwaja, and much more shockingly, Colonel Imam (Hamid Gul wouldnt have fared much better).

It is not surprising then that the Pakiban has reportedly called off the truce after the US killing of OBL.

This may be America's big break in pushing the PA in to North Waziristan as well.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 May 2011 22:09

Pakistan has bin Laden wife, children in custody. What have you got? Nothing. Nothing. Pa'astan is number 1. We are number 1.

The relatives — one of bin Laden’s wives and up to eight children — will be interrogated and then probably turned over to their countries of origin, and not the United States, in accordance with Pakistani law, he said.

They have a law for that?

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 03 May 2011 22:11

Also x posted;

Theo_Fidel wrote:I keep thinking of Raymond Davis. Keep thinking he was involved and had vital info to get back to JSOC, literally with a license to kill anyone in the way.

Not only that, the secrecy required to not give away even a hint in such circumstances is amazing. Real time James Bond.

There was one unnamed ISI officer speaking off the record to the press who claimed "Davis had crossed a red line" and the two men were supposed to "scare" rather than kill him. They were a bit too scary for their own good.

Both Fren Tankel and Christine Fair have said they thought that Davis was in Lahore to as part of an effort to track LeT cells to prevent a any repeat of a Mumbai style attack. I tend to agree with them.

The Pakistani Army is far more protective of the LeT than Al Qaeda - they moved China to block a US sponsored resolution to put its leadership on the UN terrorism list in the aftermath of Mumbai.

As I said earlier, the real problem with the Davis shooting and arrest was timing. If they didnt get him out before the raid, he could have been the first retaliatory victim - one of the guards could have easily taken matters in to his own hands and become a hero.

The question is in the aftermath of the revelations of Abbotttabad, will the US compromises on operations inside Pakistan be rolled back?

There's a window of opportunity here, just as in the aftermath of 9/11.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 03 May 2011 22:20

i only heard about it on monday morning. RD was the first that came to my mind too.
with so many things that tsp is hiding, pakis prolly got confused about what massa knew. they knew massa knew something, but what?

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 03 May 2011 22:22

All in all a massive victory for Pakistan.

1. The most wanted man in the world has been killed in their country. This speaks to their frontline status in the WOT.
2. He was lulled into a false sense of safety by allowing him to live in a high security zone for years. This speaks to the sagacity of PA and ISI.
3. US forces were given a free hand. This speaks to their supreme tradition of honouring their guests.
4. Pakistanis tourists will be further singled out and given special anal recognition in airports all over the world. This speaks for itself.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 May 2011 22:48

Johan,

The reports indicate Lahore was merely his last stop. He had spent a lot of time in Islamabad, Peshawar and other unidentified areas around the NA. Would be curious to know if the KKH areas figured into that.

I wouldn't believe a word Christine Fair says.

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 May 2011 22:49

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

CIA Chief Leon Panetta discloses that the Islamic Terrorist supporting ways of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan prevented the US from working with the Islamic Republic in the mission to execute Islamic Terrorist Osama Bin Laden.

The US fear was that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan would alert Osama Bin Laden:

“it was decided that any effort to work with the Pakistanis could jeopardize the mission. They might alert the targets,”

Read more in Time Magazine:

CIA Chief Breaks Silence: Pakistan Would Have Jeopardized bin Laden Raid, ‘Impressive’ Intel Captured

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 May 2011 23:02

Baikul wrote:All in all a massive victory for Pakistan.

1. The most wanted man in the world has been killed in their country. This speaks to their frontline status in the WOT.
2. He was lulled into a false sense of safety by allowing him to live in a high security zone for years. This speaks to the sagacity of PA and ISI.
3. US forces were given a free hand. This speaks to their supreme tradition of honouring their guests.
4. Pakistanis tourists will be further singled out and given special anal recognition in airports all over the world. This speaks for itself.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan is certainly trying to peddle that particular theory ie: Item 2

:

Last night, however, a well-placed source with strong links to Pakistan's security establishment put to me an alternative analysis. He said that bin Laden had been lured away from his mountain hideout with a promise of total security – only to be betrayed. This is a very different kind of story, because it suggests that the ISI and the Pakistani army may have played a significant part in the operation which brought about bin Laden's death.

From the Telegraph UK:

Bin Laden killed: Whose side was Pakistan on in this shoot-out?

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 03 May 2011 23:10

arun wrote:.......................................

Last night, however, a well-placed source with strong links to Pakistan's security establishment put to me an alternative analysis. He said that bin Laden had been lured away from his mountain hideout with a promise of total security – only to be betrayed. This is a very different kind of story, because it suggests that the ISI and the Pakistani army may have played a significant part in the operation which brought about bin Laden's death.
From the Telegraph UK:

Bin Laden killed: Whose side was Pakistan on in this shoot-out?

And I thought I was smoking high grade stuff when I created my 'theory'. They're actually peddling that?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 03 May 2011 23:17

On to more troubling stuff:

If bin Laden is sheltered and protected by Paki Army after surviving threats from US and pocketing massive bribes, what else is going on in that dark, evil empire?

Does the world realize how close we were and still are to a nuclear explosion in the heart of a big (most probably western) city, thanks to Pakis and their support for bin Laden?

Does NATO et al get this or they still want to work with Kiyani and co? If the Pak army can sneak bin Laden from place to place amidst a closely watched war zone, they can very well cart pieces of a bomb for him and his gang through peace zones of the world. And now they are brazenly producing more warheads and even bragging about more compact weapons dispersed all over pakistan.

US and its allies can go back to believing about "only few rogue elements" or they can address the issue.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 May 2011 23:22

Baikul, You have the "think like a Paki" algorithm decoded.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 03 May 2011 23:27

Ramana, somehow that is not a very comforting thought.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 03 May 2011 23:31

LOL! Either way TSP is gonna get an arse wooping from TTP and friends. Perhaps unkil will join in too in their own ways. TSP is now cornered and will lean on people to help them out.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 May 2011 23:39

Gotcha!!

Please study this picture of the paki interior minister Malik. Students of body language will immediately recognize this "rubbing" of the nose area with one's finger while talking as a precursor to lying.

Nose body language

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 May 2011 00:05

Pa'astan: Conspiracy Capital
Theories on bin Laden’s death take root in Pakistan

Educated professionals went from astonished to incredulous to disbelieving, delving into theories fanned by widespread distrust of the government’s official ally in the war on terror.

“Nobody believes it. We’ve never seen any Arabs around here,” he said laughing.

“I still doubt that Osama had been killed in Pakistan,” said IT professional Qaiser Khan, 55. “The Americans might have killed him somewhere else — in Afghanistan — and played a Hollywood-like stunt here to defame our country.”

It seems Khan Sa'ab spends too much time playing online games while at work.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 00:07

Baikul wrote:Ramana, somehow that is not a very comforting thought.

Its the "Blink" effect. 80% of whats needed is swirling in your mind. While the rest of us demand the rest 20%, you let your brain free and posted.

Glad(well) you could do that.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 04 May 2011 00:20

hnair wrote:On to more troubling stuff:

If bin Laden is sheltered and protected by Paki Army after surviving threats from US and pocketing massive bribes, what else is going on in that dark, evil empire?

Does the world realize how close we were and still are to a nuclear explosion in the heart of a big (most probably western) city, thanks to Pakis and their support for bin Laden?

Does NATO et al get this or they still want to work with Kiyani and co? If the Pak army can sneak bin Laden from place to place amidst a closely watched war zone, they can very well cart pieces of a bomb for him and his gang through peace zones of the world. And now they are brazenly producing more warheads and even bragging about more compact weapons dispersed all over pakistan.

US and its allies can go back to believing about "only few rogue elements" or they can address the issue.

That would be end game for Poaks. Given the history of sell outs and the desire to sleep with as many goats with the baksheesh that they get from the 3.5, would the snake turn around and give a fatal bite like that to their masters? They just might, but a lot more things have to happen before that.

I suspect it will be all fine and dandy pretty soon. They got out of RD case by saying that U$ payed the families of the dead blood money, according to sharia. Now we need to see which Islamic sharia law TSP will creatively invoke for OBL meeting his 72 right under their noses. My guess would be that OBL was not pure enough (as someone else suggested, declare him as an Ahmediya

)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 00:23

Actully they might be in bigger trouble from the hardline Islamists.

CNN reports WH confirms OBL and his wife were unarmed when shot.

Expect Kiyani to get tandoored.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 May 2011 00:47

Pakistan's ba**s are tightly secured in unkil's hands

The trove of materials collected from the compound includes 10 hard drives, five computers and more than 100 storage devices, a senior U.S. official told CNN Tuesday -- material that investigators hope will yield clues to help break the al Qaeda network and thwart future terrorist attacks.