News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 May 2011 22:00

meanwhile, the real brains of AQ - the hakimi al misri remains on the loose...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 May 2011 22:00

subodh - what are their designations (if you know)?

a team of archeologists in Milan is using ground penetrating radar to locate remains of a nun who in earlier part of life may have been model of mona lisa painting. likewise I think its also use to detect underground water and land mines. wouldnt put it past the raymond davis types to rig up such a kit below a truck and drive it around the locality using hired help on some false delivery missions to scout out any potential tunnels.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 May 2011 22:02

such devices have been used for IED detection in afghanistan for a while now
i believe there is also a UAV variant

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 03 May 2011 22:03

The matter of the HDDs/computers is clear now. Thanks for the explanations folks.
Musharrador and Kiya-nahi must be browning their jernail uniforms now....lol.

anupmisra wrote:
Read between the line, NR. ISI saying that "it is embarrassed by its failures on al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden" means it is embarassed by its failure to provide a foolproof security arrangement and it unwisely chose one of its own safe houses miles away from the garrison to protect OBL. It is also embarrased by the fact that it failed to not follow the paki agents who were working for us. And, it is also embarassed now because, like a child, it has been caught with its hands in the cookie jar.

Yup. Whatever happens, even if unkil resumes payments to his captive whore, the blow to pakistan/ISI's echhandee is massive. As our chipanda comrades would say, 'Face has been lost'. Much face has been lost, and will not be regained for a very long time.

ISI's flimsy facade of a 'ruthless and dangerous but omniscient and competent entity within pacquistan' has been ripped to shreds. They have been exposed for what they truly are : incompetent, savage, double-dealing, bumbling clowns without a clue. Stripped and shamed in public! Any way they spin this debacle, this is the only takeaway.
Oh what a pathetic state of affairs

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 03 May 2011 22:03

Rachel Maddow's rape of pakistan. For those who haven't watched it.

Amazing...I love this lady!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#42869391

Sam · Post by **Sam** » 03 May 2011 22:03

SwamyG wrote:
devesh wrote:Of course if you know about her ahem ahem preferences, it probably will endear her to you little more

SwamyG the preferences are not confirmed, if you saw her yesterday talking to Richard Engel one could see a few sparks there

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 03 May 2011 22:04

Theo_Fidel wrote:I keep thinking of Raymond Davis. Keep thinking he was involved and had vital info to get back to JSOC, literally with a license to kill anyone in the way.

Not only that, the secrecy required to not give away even a hint in such circumstances is amazing. Real time James Bond.

There was one unnamed ISI officer speaking off the record to the press who claimed "Davis had crossed a red line" and the two men were supposed to "scare" rather than kill him. They were a bit too scary for their own good.

Both Fren Tankel and Christine Fair have said they thought that Davis was in Lahore to as part of an effort to track LeT cells to prevent a any repeat of a Mumbai style attack. I tend to agree with them.

The Pakistani Army is far more protective of the LeT than Al Qaeda - they moved China to block a US sponsored resolution to put its leadership on the UN terrorism list in the aftermath of Mumbai.

As I said earlier, the real problem with the Davis shooting and arrest was timing. If they didnt get him out before the raid, he could have been the first retaliatory victim - one of the guards could have easily taken matters in to his own hands and become a hero.

The question is in the aftermath of the revelations of Abbotttabad, will the US compromises on operations inside Pakistan be rolled back?

There's a window of opportunity here, just as in the aftermath of 9/11.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 May 2011 22:04

not sure of uav variant - I thought UAVs were rigged to detect freshly placed soil patches to sense places where IEDs might be placed though.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 May 2011 22:06

I don't know about you, but when I think "tactical covert military operations," I think of Navy SEALs. So when news broke that Seal Team Six was the unit responsible for taking down Osama bin Laden, it was hardly surprising. That specific group of men operates out of a small facility near Virginia Beach, a point that many in the commonwealth wear with a fair amount of pride. But although military welcomes are a normal part of life in Norfolk, which regularly sees returning aircraft carriers, there will likely be no such pomp for Team Six. The Post's Annys Shin and Annie Gowen report on how honoring the men will be tough, because people don't really know who they are.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... _blog.html

subodh · Post by **subodh** » 03 May 2011 22:07

webb - birg gen, asst cmmd gen, jsoc
mcdonojgh - dep ntl sec advsr
donilon - ntl sec advsr
daley - obama chief of staff
binken - natl sec advsr to biden
tomason - drctr of cntrtrrsm
brennan - asst to obama for hmlnd sec and cntrterrsm
clapper - drct of natl intl

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 03 May 2011 22:09

President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with members of the national security team, receive an update on the mission against Osama bin Laden in the Situation Room of the White House, May 1, 2011. Seated, from left, are: Brigadier General Marshall B. “Brad” Webb, Assistant Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command; Deputy National Security Advisor Denis McDonough; Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton; and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. Standing, from left, are: Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; National Security Advisor Tom Donilon; Chief of Staff Bill Daley; Tony Binken, National Security Advisor to the Vice President; Audrey Tomason Director for Counterterrorism; John Brennan, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism; and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. Please note: a classified document seen in this photograph has been obscured.

Source is VOA

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 22:12

morning npr: brennan would not confirm if paki amb was hiding everything.. he would only believe that they don't know about obl at all. I think masa is now playing for the dumb pakis. of course, there are questions, but want to keep it that level so that the grilling need not happen open.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 May 2011 22:13

My attempt at humor.
Q: What is the difference between Pakistan and Trojan condoms?
A: Pakistan is reusable.

Q: Who uses reusable condoms?
A: Cheap people.

Q: What happens if Pakistan cannot be reused?
A: It is thrown into trash.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » 03 May 2011 22:14

pgbhat wrote:
Please note: a classified document seen in this photograph has been obscured.

Oops I thought Hillary was holding back from throwing up her half eaten sandwich lying on the sheet of paper there

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 May 2011 22:19

maybe they were showing live feed from inside the house with OBLs head in a bag...they look more engrossed than people in final over of a cricket final for sure.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 May 2011 22:20

All this really puts the security of Paki crown jewels in question. Foreign troops in 4 helicopters ingress, shoot up the palce, destroy one of their helicopters, do their job for 40min at the site and exit and inform the TSP after the event.

A whole lot of explaining for the TSPA to do. In one fell swoop the TSP civilians have been handed a big danda (thanda danda!) to put the Army back in barracks. Lets see if they do that or a coup happens.

So called TSPA and ISI which were said to be omnicient and omnipotent in TSP are shown to be ignorant cowards.

This is in effect like 1971 redux.....

SaiK, recall my comments about the need to allow the TSP to plead dumb.....

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 May 2011 22:21

^^^

Obama looks like a kid in that room. So different that he is tucked away in a corner. Can't imagine Bush or Clinton ever doing that. Seems to prefer that.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 May 2011 22:22

msnbc's maps of pakistan also don't show their version of the kashmir border... progress!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 22:25

they (ops folks) say, they did intentionally destroy one of the spec op chopper that went too close to a wall. so, mechanical trouble ... jee this must be noted by our dhruv bashers [OT- just a pointer to remember]. especially this happens at the nick of the moment, when should not happen at all.

not sure the destruction happened (most likely after obl was shot dead). masa has not released pics yet, and are under review.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 03 May 2011 22:26

I was watching MSNBC news and they showed a fleeting glimpse of the bedroom wall from outside in the street. I stopped and rewound a couple of times.. From what I could tell there were TWO rough circles around the outside of the wall of the bedroom wall on either side of a window. These were placed next to drainage pipes running down the length of the wall carefully avoiding any of them.Both of the circles corresponded in diameter roughly to the hole we saw in the interior video posted earlier. (see below).
What was very interesting to me was it looked like the wall portion was cut out and the inner piece REPLACED almost exactly leaving behind only the outside crack. Something like what a child would draw on a wall.. This seems really weird - is it possible to blow out a hole in the wall (given all the frangibility of brick and mortar) and leaving the inner plug intact for later replacement ? And if so when was it replaced? It clearly was not there in the video posted .. So was it replaced later?
Anyway if I can find their video online I will post it and if anyone else is watching and confirm what I saw please post.

Also while looking for that video came across this one with unfiltered audio in Urdu/Pesto maybe? If anyone can translate that would be great. You can clearly hear what sounds like a goat or cow bleating - perhaps in trauma of what happened earlier?

rasiklal · Post by **rasiklal** » 03 May 2011 22:29

She [Rachel Maddow] was brought into MSNBC by Keith Olbermann

She's the smartest journalist I've known in these parts. She is a Stanford grad, Rhodes Scholar and Oxford grad. She used to work for Air America (AM radio) at one time, which in the US you would do only if you are smart and honest and committed, given how poorly liberal talk radio does in comparison to the bigoted blowhard right wing talk radio.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 May 2011 22:30

A circular shaped charge can do that- Cut circles out of the wall.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 03 May 2011 22:32

Lalmohan wrote:somewhere in the afghan desert or the gelf, they must have built a mockup of the site and practiced hard for this... they must have had a good idea of the internal layout and plans

They had a replica in A'stan (I also heard US) and practiced hard on it.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 03 May 2011 22:32

RamaY wrote:
Pranav wrote: There are still some questions - why the extremely hasty disposal of the body, without showing it to anybody else, how come the DNA results came so early when there are no rapid DNA systems on the market as yet, why no photos/videos released.
The other questions were already answered.

Imagine USA still kept the dead body and someone, family or friends, requested the body to be returned for final rites. Can Obama/USA decline such a request; and face the consequences of it either way?

Not very convincing. No satisfactory answers to any of them, as yet. Anyway, one has an open mind on this.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 May 2011 22:33

Navy Seals Who Killed Bin

Harish · Post by **Harish** » 03 May 2011 22:36

One question here: if the Seals knew they were going after OBL, and they were extremely well-armed and capable, why did they not capture OBL alive? THey could have esily wiped out any and all resistance, since they were overwhelmingly well-armed, well-trained and battle hardened. Sure obl carries a gun, but he could have been incapacitated and then physically overwhelmed.

Just imagine what kind of information they could have extracted from OBL were he alive! Imagine what it would do to the khan's tough guy image were obl to be paraded in chains to an American jail and later executed!

I think OBL was killed so that he wouldn't talk. The Americans did not want him talking. OBL at one point of time had good relations with the khans. With the Saudis. With the pakis ofcourse. And maybe others in the West.

That's why he was silenced, and not captured. It would have been too inconvenient to the gotus - to let their public learn how OBL was once in bed with their own government. God knows what secrets obl took with him.

I wouldn't be surprised if the seals had shot a surprised, unarmed obl point-blank. Or perhaps after talking to him for some time. Was there a language expert in the seal team?

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 03 May 2011 22:41

i would imagine once the raid at the compound began, tsp knew. but by then tsp could not do anything. anything they did after the raid began, would have been an even bigger PR (log kya kahenge) disaster.

the only thing US needed was surprise at the beginning. once they achieved that the mission was as good as complete, and what tsp knew or not would not matter. and for tsp there was no choice really than to stand down.

as shyamd said. the location means 1). tsp was hiding him and that tsp had no clue that massa knew before the mission began.

the real point is how pissed is massa to have dealt tsp such a massive blow to paki echandee. so many different options were possible, but massa left pakis with lota?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 03 May 2011 22:42

Nandu wrote:OBL was on the run until 2005, and then suddenly decided to settle down and not move any more?

What happened in 2005 for him to make that decision?

dialysis issues?

Also, bush said once that catching OBL is not important or something like that. when was that?

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 03 May 2011 22:43

Johann wrote:The US went all out to get Raymond Davis because the raid was already in the advanced planning stage.

If the operation had gone forward while he was still in custody, chances are Davis would have ended up dead in his cell.

That is why the Americans went all out diplomatically to get him out of Pakistan - threats, carrots, whatever it took.

Johann, US (and every civilized nation) takes great care to not leve soldiers behind. They would have gone all out to get RD out even if this was op was not on the horizon. With TSP b@11s in Amir's hands, there was never any doubt that RD would be not killed.

That said, the timing was bad ... if RD affair had continued then OBL op would have to be delayed and OBL might slip away ... that was the real risk.

I am sure there are TSP'ians fuming at letting RD go so quickly ... he was their shield to this operation.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 May 2011 22:44

yes there was dari/pushto/punjabi speakers one would expect from CIA side. a local said when he ran towards the commotion, a member of road blocking team told him in pushto to go back as a fight was in progress.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 03 May 2011 22:45

Obama alive would not just be inconvenient becaue of what he had on Amirkhan, IMO. It's that alive he would be an even greater focal point for resistance, a symbol and the tamasha would have dragged on until they prosecuted and then hung him - likely several years, his inevitable hanging culminating in greater backlash.

The fact that he has no recognized grave is also part of this logic. They're still putting flowers on Jim Morrison's grave, this is Osama Bin Laden we're talking about.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 03 May 2011 22:46

Harish,

OBL wouldn't implicate the US in court - like Saddam he would try to give long statements to secure his legacy and rally the troops as a Muslim warrior, answering the call of god to defend the ummah and smite the kaffirs.

White House CT advisor Brennan claimed they were ready to capture him. While that may be true at the political level, I am not sure that the SEALs would have been ready to take the extra effort unless they were explicitly ordered to do whatever it took to bring him in alive.

Have you seen how the Obama administration has struggled to balance the legal and security challenges of trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed? Theyve kept flip flopping between military and civilian trials, and between trying him in New York or Gitmo or elsewhere. With OBL it would be even worse. It would undo every notion of decisive strength that the US has displayed here.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 May 2011 22:47

discussion on the mystery helo over at milphotus.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... Laden-raid

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 22:47

that is exactly what they talked in the morning.. diplomat who has been in pak so many times.. and he would go, this double crossing game must be put to an end.. and masa is running short of patience.

interesting paki forces never attempted to capture the dead helo!

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 03 May 2011 22:48

shiv wrote:"Hard drives" clearly mentioned in initial US reports. If you try it - it takes a minimum of 5 minutes to remove a hard drive from a PC and longer from a Laptop.

It could literally be any make of the computer, laptop, Mac. So SEAL's have to prepare for all eventuality. Have screwdrivers and know which one to pull out. Not damage the PC in the process. While it could take 5 minutes, one has to be prepared for more.

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 May 2011 22:49

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

CIA Chief Leon Panetta discloses that the Islamic Terrorist supporting ways of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan prevented the US from working with the Islamic Republic in the mission to execute Islamic Terrorist Osama Bin Laden.

The US fear was that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan would alert Osama Bin Laden:

“it was decided that any effort to work with the Pakistanis could jeopardize the mission. They might alert the targets,”

Read more in Time Magazine:

CIA Chief Breaks Silence: Pakistan Would Have Jeopardized bin Laden Raid, ‘Impressive’ Intel Captured

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 03 May 2011 22:52

To begin with, they would fingerprint that HDD.
Then make like 10 copies of the HDD, then give it to different teams to unlock it from any encryption.

Go in and run a software that'll retrieve deleted files, hidden files.
Then extract and collate information there.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 03 May 2011 22:52

Watch this

http://www.youtube.com/user/PakArmyChan ... TlmlHfolpM

Two guys at 2.49 would be knowing what is going to happen next week there. Kiyani was giving speech at Passing out parade not far from Os Mama's Lair.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 03 May 2011 22:54

Singha wrote:and with two fresh young wives on the staff, he sure was getting plenty of pu$$y on demand incl threesomes albeit leading a very house arrest type life to fly below radar.

He could not really travel outside, browse internet, call and talk. Cannot even take walks in the compound due to satellites etc. What is a virile sheikh to do when confined in small place? Do what Jack Nicholson always does after lunch.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 03 May 2011 22:55

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