All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
^^Porkies are disillusioned and in a state of denial right now.
They cannot believe what their bull$hit army/media is preaching them for eternity (i.e. Porkies are victims of CIA/MI6/RAW/Moosad global conspiracy) is actually a big lie.
Now their military is saying they didn't knew OBL was living 100 yards form PMA??
You have to be a real dork to believe such BS? On no wait.. they are dorks
I just cant believe it as easily you guys have believed the death...right now making fun of me accepted, I might have done a highly stupid thing...
But I cant believe the things in media...
You want me to believe a thing non existence non active as dead suddenly found obviously inside pakistan...then shot dead, body whisked away and dumped in sea water in a matter of 12 hrs...no evidence left or body buried because they didnt want to enshrine the burial place...dumping in sea water looks so convenient, and then why its so obvious that they had to kill him though he could given out everything...
I might have lost my brains, but i cant help thinking in this direction...
Why shouldnt I believe its a piece of fiction...created for other reasons...may OBL died in torraborra 10 years ago and now all they need is a reason to exit afghanistan...for that they will have to kill OBL for that first they came to Afghanistan...
our media is running the info released in pieces by USA...the image that made it look authentic turned out to be fake...well I might be sounding stupid...but still i need a proof to verify all this...atleast again proof released by protagonist USA...
Last edited by manum on 03 May 2011 08:09, edited 1 time in total.
Earlier fake picture was circulated in porki media (obviously) and picked up by British tabloid. This picture was in circulation since last two years. It's our media fault who released information without verification.
deafening silence from Pakistan Military and Gov should be enough proof for you.
Sir all is fine with your theory, but if OBL were killed years ago then why has AQ kept quiet for so long ? I mean i can understand the media has a price and it is within reach of GOTUS but AQ how can you silence them I mean they are AQ in the first place because they care two hoots about what Khan dada says
manum wrote:I just cant believe it as easily you guys have believed the death...right now making fun of me accepted, I might have done a highly stupid thing...
But I cant believe the things in media...
You want me to believe a thing non existence non active as dead suddenly found obviously inside pakistan...then shot dead, body whisked away and dumped in sea water in a matter of 12 hrs...no evidence left or body buried because they didnt want to enshrine the burial place...dumping in sea water looks so convenient, and then why its so obvious that they had to kill him though he could given out everything...
I might have lost my brains, but i cant help thinking in this direction...
Why shouldnt I believe its a piece of fiction...created for other reasons...may OBL died in torraborra 10 years ago and now all they need is a reason to exit afghanistan...for that they will have to kill OBL for that first they came to Afghanistan...
our media is running the info released in pieces by USA...the image that made it look authentic turned out to be fake...well I might be sounding stupid...but still i need a proof to verify all this...atleast again proof released by protagonist USA...
Manum, please spare us the conspiracy theories. On br we are cautiously paranoid, not conspiracy theorists. We prefer to have logic, and proper sources. We do not believe DDM
OBL's escape from afg and his survival during these years was said to be based upon his continous movements along the afpak region. Also he was said to have a core group of alqaida defenders that moved alongside.
There are few question that americans wont answer ,but are asking everyone else
..IMO as we all knew about him ,he was not a bunny to hide in a house for such a long time, too close to pakimilitary and never to be trusted isi's region of influence. AQ had already declared US and paki military as their enemies,so why AQ chief dines in a cantonment area?.. so this doesnt fit the whole equation ...
..While americans were desperately searching for him in the streets was shown by killing two abduls by their henchman ... just to show that he was alive, which we never saw in any .
...even more bs is the fact that they want us to eat their lies that he is buried in sea...
...why so much hurry to dispose his body before showing its to international journalists? that was a war booty that needed to be shown to everybody and then disposed somewhere..
That was a very important operation, but it seems it was so much under control not only from the operational aspect but also from result aspect... it seems isi/pakimilitary were sleeping when cia was conducting such a operation and that too near islamabad borders. The big isi simply didnt knew what's happening and neither rushed their abduls to lookout after their munna OBL who was hiding in their safe haven . The operation to kill OBL was of 40 minutes but americans were there collecting things for few more hours, but isi/pakimilitary were sleeping .
This also means osama was never there
but usa is questioning them how osama was hiding there
So this means that they were also a part in this fake operation
Two opposite things can never be equal and they are claiming something as if earth is flat
lies and psyops everywhere
A desperate attempt by obama to uplift his national image. Elections are round the corner and the list of promised he could not keep is increasing day by day. US wanted to show a victory, and also a reason cut their losses and pull out of Af-pak.
Samay wrote:why so much hurry to dispose his body before showing its to international journalists? that was a war booty that needed to be shown to everybody and then disposed somewhere..
Though I am sure that Osama has been killed, not so certain about the when and the where. Even if was killed in this particular operation, if the US wanted to keep it silent, they could have. Now their gifting of arms to Pakistan would definitely come down (or at the very least questioned)
there are many around the world questioning the authenticity of whole operation...Till now the responses from world leaders, news papers, multi-media, all make it looks as if it has really happened...
Might be true...but as USA will delay releasing the proof as strong the doubt will become...But by Taliban response I think Its been a genuine operation, and many factors indicate towards it being a genuine operation...but general people like us need more proof...
A Pakistani air force jet fighter crashed Tuesday afternoon in the Kot Shakir area of Jhang district in the country's eastern province of Punjab, reported local English TV Channel Express.
The report quoted an official with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) as saying that a Mirage combat aircraft of PAF was on its routine rehearsal flight in the Jhang district of Punjab province when the pilot lost its control over the plane due to some technical problem.
The pilot ejected safely before the plane crashed in the desert area of the district, said the official.
---
Army heli crashes near tarbela ghazi; SM killed, a Col badly injured.
Chinese who are known for their self reliance first and quality next, are further downgrading JF-17s capabilities with their poorly copy-pirated avionics.
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) proudly displays the RD-93’s “Combat thrust with afterburner” as 19,200lbf, while the whole defense community knows RD-93’s thrust is 18,300lbf and the only real thrust increase was achieved with its new re-designed Sea Wasp RD-33MK engines- which has been explicitly stated by Klimov. However, Klimov’s RD-33 series 3(or series 2?), whose avatar is RD-93 with re-positioned Gear boxes, has a provision for emergency thrust which Klimov says can produce 8700kgf(~19200lbf) in their officially released document. They further state that as “Take-off emergency mode”. So the mentioned thrust can only be used during take-off where the Air is denser, and also only during emergency situations since it would seriously lower the engine’s lifespan. This is a far cry from PAC's “Combat thrust” claim.
The next Achilles heal is JF-17’s speed. For a good interception, speed is an important criteria. However JF-17’s max speed is Mach 1.6 which is claimed by PAC. This indicates that JF-17 is draggier. When compared, their F-7s(Reverse engineered Mig-21s) have higher speed of mach 2+ with a lower thrust engine.
The fact that Osama bin Laden went completely unnoticed before he was killed shows that Pakistan’s position on the al Qaeda leader has lacked clarity, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said Tuesday.
posted from a Haram site[Dawn.com]
Last edited by arya on 03 May 2011 22:49, edited 1 time in total.
A Pakistani air force jet fighter crashed Tuesday afternoon in the Kot Shakir area of Jhang district in the country's eastern province of Punjab, reported local English TV Channel Express.
The report quoted an official with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) as saying that a Mirage combat aircraft of PAF was on its routine rehearsal flight in the Jhang district of Punjab province when the pilot lost its control over the plane due to some technical problem.
The pilot ejected safely before the plane crashed in the desert area of the district, said the official.
---
Army heli crashes near tarbela ghazi; SM killed, a Col badly injured.
This is exactly the reason Geelani left to france in ziffy...They have no other place to look to except france, Chinese being useless altogether...
Talking to mediamen at the Chaklala air base, the Prime Minister said France is an important country of the EU, therefore his visit carries special significance.“We want to enhance our bilateral ties,” he said adding the relations with France will be upgraded from secretary level to ministerial level.Gilani told that two agreements would be signed to promote economic and trade relations.He said he will hold talks with the French leadership on defence and security issues.
They are in serious trouble in fighter department...with Bunder being useless and mirage fleet showing its age and lack of parts...
I have a small query:
How was osama's body taken from near Islamabad to USN Carl Vinson which was positioned somewhere in the Arabian Sea? (hopefully, in international waters) It cannot be taken by a chopper as there is none that can travel that much distance (more that 1100 kms http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/d ... 106&p2=757)...and a cargo plane cannot land on the deck of an aircraft carrier....
How was osama's body taken from near Islamabad to USN Carl Vinson which was positioned somewhere in the Arabian Sea? (hopefully, in international waters) It cannot be taken by a chopper as there is none that can travel that much distance (more that 1100 kms http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/d ... 106&p2=757)...and a cargo plane cannot land on the deck of an aircraft carrier....
I have a small query:
How was osama's body taken from near Islamabad to USN Carl Vinson which was positioned somewhere in the Arabian Sea? (hopefully, in international waters) It cannot be taken by a chopper as there is none that can travel that much distance (more that 1100 kms http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/d ... 106&p2=757)...and a cargo plane cannot land on the deck of an aircraft carrier....
Helicopters can be refueled in mid air...which is also probably how they went from Afghanistan into Pakistan for the initial operation.
An assessment made by Indian agencies suggests that almost three-fourths of the Pakistani military brass is concerned about the way American helicopters crossed into Pakistani territory, carried out a surgical strike and left without informing either the Pakistani government or security establishment, Indian government sources said.
Nair wrote:
Helicopters can be refueled in mid air...which is also probably how they went from Afghanistan into Pakistan for the initial operation.
Black Hawk helo:
RANGE:
373 miles (600km), 882 miles (1,421km) with optional auxiliary internal fuel
These were special ops helos too, so I would suspect they had more features.
Besides NO one knew of this operation, not even the USAF. So doubt that a tanker would be there to assist. Recall that PAF scrambled at the tail end of the helos trip - they were probably near the shore when the PAF woke up.
The trip from Jallalabad to Abbotabad is 100 miles, to the sea is some 500 miles. Well within the range of a SpOp helo.
An assessment made by Indian agencies suggests that almost three-fourths of the Pakistani military brass is concerned about the way American helicopters crossed into Pakistani territory, carried out a surgical strike and left without informing either the Pakistani government or security establishment, Indian government sources said.
Wasnt it reported that they flew back to afghanistan. They would've landed at bagram and done a post-mortem on the body. After that they could've flown the body on a navy grayhound turbo-prop to the uss carl vinson ( a nimitz class aircraft carrier). With fighter escort too I would assume. Why would they fly out to sea on helicopters from bagram?
Nair wrote:
Helicopters can be refueled in mid air...which is also probably how they went from Afghanistan into Pakistan for the initial operation.
Black Hawk helo:
RANGE:
373 miles (600km), 882 miles (1,421km) with optional auxiliary internal fuel
These were special ops helos too, so I would suspect they had more features.
Besides NO one knew of this operation, not even the USAF. So doubt that a tanker would be there to assist. Recall that PAF scrambled at the tail end of the helos trip - they were probably near the shore when the PAF woke up.
The trip from Jallalabad to Abbotabad is 100 miles, to the sea is some 500 miles. Well within the range of a SpOp helo.
I thought they flew in from Bagram...which means they refueled somewhere on the way(probably on the border) and also on the way back. The MH-60K Black Hawk has a refueling pod.
if they directly headed for the sea with PAF response being uncertain for a few hrs until a amritraj session could be organized, best option was cross directly over to Indian airspace (50km) and fly within indian airlane down to gujarat and the sea...or arrange for AAR from a c130 or refuel at some remote indian airbase and get out.
refuelling within pakistani airspace would have been a mess for sure....special ops helis do seem to be the most plausible answer...they also lost a heli during operation which means that an additional would have come in to ferry the troops back....but gurus i still believe that amrika wont risk taking osama's body in a chopper across the length of pakistan to their ship, there is something amiss here...either pukis had to be in full know of this op or they were too scared to follow amerikhi heli flyin past their airspace!!! i guess paki airforce can scramble at least a few jets on short notice of 50 mins or so.....
US aircraft have been flying over Pakistan with impunity for a decade now. Even if the body landed in a US cargo plane in Isloo and the was loaded into a helo there is nothing that Pakis could have done. The covert part was over. the rest was overt like all routine activity.
I am certain the USAF/USNavy were informed about a "special covert operation" and of specific tasks they were to perform - though they would not have known who or what. The US is too thorough to leave out such details and too concerned about Paki sentiment to talk about it - but I bet my ass that US fighters were up there to shoot down Paki jets or helos if they had interfered. Note the way in which they conveniently had a Chinook hovering nearby to take up the slack when a help crashed.
And I am sure Pakis understand this perfectly well. After Raymond Davis - this thing sort of "tilts the balance" towards teh US. But that is OT for this thread.
1. Doesn't remotely look like anything you see open-source - not MH60, not CH47, not OH58 and not vanilla CH53.
2. Looks like like a 5-bladed tail rotor - again, none of the above have a 5-bladed tail rotor.
3. The horizontal tail-plane has an unusual placement - on MH60 it is at the extremity of the tail unit, CH47 has no conventional tail rotor, OH 58 has 2-bladed rotor with the horizontal planes set well ahead on the thin tail boom, and CH53 has a canted plane on the other side of the tail rotor.
4. On the other hand, have a look at the Sikorsky S76, particularly WRT to the placement of tail planes to vertical tail: S76 3-view
6. FWIW, an S76 variant: S75. Look at the shaping.
5: Whatever the base model is, the tail unit and rotor hub has some serious cladding, quite sure will be some radar/IR absorbent material
So... are we seeing for the 1st time an in-service (semi?)stealth assault chopper used only by JSOC? Makes sense for penetration into hostile airspace... Interesting.
>>either pukis had to be in full know of this op or they were too scared to follow amerikhi heli flyin past their airspace!!!
the helis might no longer have been alone after the op. half a squadron of F22s could have been flying top cover with a clear channel message to the nearest paki airbase "we are waiting for you up here, stay grounded or come up and meet us"
TORONTO: Pakistan was lucky not to have intervened in Sunday night's US military operation to kill Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden as Americans had armed jets on standby in Afghanistan to respond massively, says a media report here.
"Pakistan might have gotten very, very lucky on Sunday'' as the US would have responded massively to its interference in the operation to take out the world's most wanted terrorist, the National Post newspaper said here.
"Given the importance of extracting bin Laden's body for examination and the obvious desire of the US to protect its special forces is that, yes, America would have shot down any Pakistani jet that attempted to intervene in the operation,'' the paper said.
"They (Americans) were likely gambling that they would be in and out of Pakistan before a battle became necessary, or perhaps they were able to impress upon the Pakistani civilian leadership the extreme consequences that would ensue if Pakistan's fighters interfered in the operation.''
The paper said Pakistan would have been entirely within its legal rights to fire on any unauthorized foreign military forces operating over their territory.
"Abbottabad isn't some backwater, lawless tribal area, but by all reports an affluent city. American military forces were operating there without permission. It's easy to foresee that the Pakistanis would have felt entirely justified in firing on them.''
But from the Pentagon's perspective, the paper said, "they (Americans) would have been ready for it... Pakistan might have gotten very, very lucky on Sunday.''
The paper said "there seems to be growing consensus that Pakistan was informed of the operation (only) as it got under way, not consulted in advance - and certainly not asked permission.
"This is important, because the Pakistani military is quite powerful and advanced, and would be capable of responding to a foreign military incursion if it so chose.''
The paper said Blackhawk and Chinook helicopters used by US Navy SEALs to carry out the raid would have been "easy prey for any Pakistani fighter jet that the Americans detected approaching bin Laden's compound, or that tried to pursue the helicopters as they returned to Afghanistan.
"Therefore assume that the Americans had some forces on standby to protect their SEALs and helicopters, which probably means armed fighter jets loitering inside Afghanistan, ready to cross into Pakistan with cannons and missiles blazing - if necessary.''
The paper also quoted John O. Brennan, Obama's counter-terrorism advisor, who said Monday that "thankfully there was no engagement with Pakistani forces.''
Even if US manages to secure most of it, they might keep a sample back in sly.
