News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 03 May 2011 22:55

surinder wrote:
Johann wrote:The US went all out to get Raymond Davis because the raid was already in the advanced planning stage.

If the operation had gone forward while he was still in custody, chances are Davis would have ended up dead in his cell.

That is why the Americans went all out diplomatically to get him out of Pakistan - threats, carrots, whatever it took.
Johann, US (and every civilized nation) takes great care to not leve soldiers behind. They would have gone all out to get RD out even if this was op was not on the horizon. With TSP b@11s in Amir's hands, there was never any doubt that RD would be not killed.

That said, the timing was bad ... if RD affair had continued then OBL op would have to be delayed and OBL might slip away ... that was the real risk.

I am sure there are TSP'ians fuming at letting RD go so quickly ... he was their shield to this operation.

America would never have abandoned Davis, but the force with which the US demanded his release stating flatly that all normal contact was contingent on finding a solution, and simultaneously compromises including suspending drone ops, etc was surprising to a lot of people, Americans and Pakistani alike. It was a couple of steps beyond the usual determination to leave no man behind.

As you said your self, it was a question of timing. The operation would have been delayed, and that would have increased the risk of it being compromised.

Absolutely right about the PA and ISI frustration at realising that they lost a far more valuable bargaining chip than they realised at the time.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 03 May 2011 22:59

On the issue of removing hard drives - are we complicating this too much? Assuming that we're not talking of a whole bank of computers in networked environment kind of scenario, how much time does it take to rip off wires and bodily pick up 5 or even 10 whole computers and throw them in the back of a copter?

From what I've read, men under fire, under very tight deadlines, the whole Pakjabi population outside and adrenalin pumping, may be unlikely to bother with niceties like removing a hard drive per PC, no matter how well trained. Just take the whole damn thing.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 03 May 2011 23:00

Gus wrote:
Nandu wrote:OBL was on the run until 2005, and then suddenly decided to settle down and not move any more?

What happened in 2005 for him to make that decision?
dialysis issues?

Also, bush said once that catching OBL is not important or something like that. when was that?

It was 6 months after 911 so doesn't match 2005. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o

My suspicion is the US let OBL escape (under Paki protection) so they can extract all the contacts others made to him since then.

Obama for some reason decided they used him enough and got credit of taking him out. It is most likely to reduce troop level as he
promised in elections. It is not economical to protect poppy fields with US assets. They may redeploy some in Paki from Afg and
reduce overall troop levels and cut some budget.

Big O might be changing the direction in the second half of his term.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 03 May 2011 23:01

Meanwhile, .. routine post Laden chaos claims a few buses and an QM leader ....
MQM leader killed: ..in post-Laden chaos,...

Marc Grossman, has talks with Bashir and Afghan Deputy Foreign Minister...
US Special Representative for Afghanistan, Pakistan calls on President
..How ..:

The US, which eliminated Osama bin Laden in an operation bypassing Pakistani authorities, today surprisingly [them] ... was a "shared achievement" between the two countries.

Gem from here:

. Bashir, who faced a volley of questions at the joint press conference on the killing of bin Laden by US forces and American drone strikes in the tribal belt, said, "There is no point getting into the forensics of this operation. It is beside the point. "The issue of Osama bin Laden is history. We don''t want to keep ourselves mired in the past." Dismissing conspiracy theories about the killing of bin Laden, Bashir contended that US President Barack Obama and the Pakistan government had both made it that the al-Qaeda chief was dead. "It''s more important to focus on the future and not keep analysing the past," he said. Bashir called for a new approach.....

And of course...
Bomb Kills 4 Near Pakistani Mosque Hours After Bin Laden Killed

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 May 2011 23:01

Johann wrote: There was one unnamed ISI officer speaking off the record to the press who claimed "Davis had crossed a red line" and the two men were supposed to "scare" rather than kill him. They were a bit too scary for their own good.

Both Fren Tankel and Christine Fair have said they thought that Davis was in Lahore to as part of an effort to track LeT cells to prevent a any repeat of a Mumbai style attack. I tend to agree with them.

The Pakistani Army is far more protective of the LeT than Al Qaeda - they moved China to block a US sponsored resolution to put its leadership on the UN terrorism list in the aftermath of Mumbai.

As I said earlier, the real problem with the Davis shooting and arrest was timing. If they didnt get him out before the raid, he could have been the first retaliatory victim - one of the guards could have easily taken matters in to his own hands and become a hero.

The question is in the aftermath of the revelations of Abbotttabad, will the US compromises on operations inside Pakistan be rolled back?

There's a window of opportunity here, just as in the aftermath of 9/11.

Let me chime in. Absolutely no doubt that RD was tracking LET, the ultimate lakshman rekha that is a no no for TSP. To me, US is still playing a double game. If you look at those cheap jingoistic celebrations on the streets of DC and elsewhere on the death of an impotent terrorist as though heavens have descended to mother earth, its clear to me that US wants to nail everyone they can think of is even remotely responsible for 9/11. And to this end, there are still big ticket items on the menu: Mullah Omar for a start. It doesn't require even a squirrel brain to realize that TSP was using OBL to milk the maximum out of US (on this point I must admit that while I knew the games TSP was up to, I thought OBL was dead and gone a long time ago), and they were holding him out for the right moment. So even now, TSP has utility for US to catch some big fish of interest to USA. And after the arse whipping TSP is receiving right now, you can be rest assured of the guboing going on. And I expect that TSP will sacrifice some precious goats. And my fear is that in these dealings, the ultimate carrot that US will dangle before TSP is LET. India will be sold out. No justice for the victims of 26/11 and other victims of TSP terror.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 03 May 2011 23:02

Baikul wrote:On the issue of removing hard drives - are we complicating this too much? Assuming that we're not talking of a whole bank of computers in networked environment kind of scenario, how much time does it take to rip off wires and bodily pick up 5 or even 10 whole computers and throw them in the back of a copter?

From what I've read, men under fire, under very tight deadlines, the whole Pakjabi population outside and adrenalin pumping, may be unlikely to bother with niceties like removing a hard drive per PC, no matter how well trained. Just take the whole damn thing.

agree... Nasa has recovered data from totally burnt HDD from Columbia Space Shuttle Crash... so this should be cake walk...

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 03 May 2011 23:09

http://img714.imageshack.us/i/boomheadshotosama.jpg/

Viewer discretion adviced

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 03 May 2011 23:11

Time to declare Pakistan a terrorist state: Salman Rushdie

...As far as the anti-Indian jihadist groups are concerned - Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Muhammad - Pakistan's support for such groups, its willingness to provide them with safe havens, its encouragement of such groups as a means of waging a proxy war in Kashmir and, of course, in Mumbai, is established beyond all argument...
Also ... it was noteworthy that the first threats of retaliation came from "the so-called Pakistani Taliban " and "not by any Al Qaeda spokesman".

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 03 May 2011 23:11

WikiLeaks: Osama bin Laden 'protected' by Pakistani security
Pakistani security forces allegedly helped Osama bin Laden evade American troops for almost 10 years, according to secret US government files.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 May 2011 23:12

counter fatwa!

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 03 May 2011 23:12

^^ Sushupati ji, ouch. Prabhakaran grade stuff.

May be the link needs a warning?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 May 2011 23:16

CRS or Gagan,
Can some one coorelate the numerous OBL tapes and where they were supposed to have been released?
IIRC they invariably were in TSP and in urban areas to some Paki Channel or Al-J outlet. I mean they weren't from some cave complex area.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 03 May 2011 23:17

deleted

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 03 May 2011 23:20

Pakistan responds

The covers of our newspapers are emblazoned with Bin Laden this morning — but it is an article in a US newspaper that really catches the eye. Pakistan's President, Asif Ali Zardari, has written an op-ed for the Washington Post that defends his country's role in the struggle against Al-Qaeda. It's a defence that has four components. 1) Sympathy: "Pakistan … joins the other targets of al-Qaeda in our satisfaction that the source of the greatest evil of the new millennium has been silenced." 2) Credit-sharing: "We in Pakistan take some satisfaction that our early assistance in identifying an al-Qaeda courier ultimately led to this day." 3) Defiance: "Pakistan has paid an enormous price for its stand against terrorism. More of our soldiers have died than all of NATO’s casualties combined." 4) Reassurance: "We can become everything that al-Qaeda and the Taliban most fear — a vision of a modern Islamic future." They all add up to an impassioned, insistent whole.

But Zardari does not really mention, let alone answer, the most pressing question of all: just how was Bin Laden able to set up a des res in a military town only a short car journey away from Islamabad? The closest he comes to it is the laughable aside, "He was not anywhere we had anticipated he would be." But until he can explain why that was so, or at least give a better excuse, you suspect that relations between the West and the Pakistani state will continue in a fug of mistrust and suspicion. And that will, of course, have repercussions for the ongoing effort in Afghanistan, as well as for the fragile political balance in the region.

In any case, it's a good time to (re-)read the article that Ahmed Rashid wrote for The Spectator last year on the splits and rivalries with Pakistan's government. The simple fact is that Zardari may be President, but he may not be in charge. On Rashid's account, General Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani — the head of the army, and former chief of Pakistani intelligence — is now "the most powerful man in Pakistan." It was Kiyani who was cited in Wikileaks files as providing "overt or tacit support" for militant groups in Pakistan. And it is Kiyani, now, who may know the answers to some of the West's questions — or at least better than Zardari does.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 03 May 2011 23:20

Sushupti wrote: Edited

are you doing random google image search with "Bin Laden Dead Body"? .. these are all fake ones and had been around since ages..

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 03 May 2011 23:21

Edit -- same message as Prithvi above.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 May 2011 23:24

VanityFair: Casting the Osama Bin Laden Movie: Denzel as Obama, Blanchett as Trump, Shalhoub as Bin Laden
Casting the Osama Bin Laden Movie: Denzel as Obama, Blanchett as Trump, Shalhoub as Bin Laden
| VF Daily | Vanity Fair vanityfair.com

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 03 May 2011 23:25

Who'll play Musharraf? Johnny Walker?

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 03 May 2011 23:26

Doesn't it seem that BHO's main tasks are almost over? does he need to become the next sacrificial item - that is needed to galvanize the country and opinion for another round of ME bashing, including flattening Pakjab?

After supposed elimination of OBL, with BHO being broadcast as being sort of personally but vicariously leading the hunt, makes him now the supreme target for Jihadis. US sacrificed at least another (perhaps more) President after his "task" was over. This one also seems to subconsciously model himself on that "one". Caesar, according to one ironic school, might have relished the idea of going out the way he went out and ignored precaution - to stay hardbound in texts forever. At the end of each such sacrifice, the man becomes a demigod and gets his yearned for glory, while the nation emerges greater as an empire. Each gets what he wants.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 03 May 2011 23:27

CRamS wrote:And my fear is that in these dealings, the ultimate carrot that US will dangle before TSP is LET. India will be sold out. No justice for the victims of 26/11 and other victims of TSP terror.

Unless India SEALs paki fate on our own. In the long run, US must involve India at some stage while dealing with Pakistan. It is not that easy to just sellout India. Its just an instinct but It is possible that India would have had the hint that Osama is near Islamabad. Indian intelligence is not that bad either, we did avert couple of major attacks since 26/11. We may not have ultra cool comm and satellite sniffing NSA hardware of US,but India can and has good eyes and ears on Pakistan. After 26/11 lot has changed in the intelligence gathering apparatus of India. Geronimo has motivated many in the Indian community. Many believe it can be done. Do not write off Sonia and Rahul.Witnessing the political gain by Obama in a successful raid and the scenes outside White House, I would not rule out an operation in a year to snatch HS or DI by us.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 03 May 2011 23:29

And Sushupti bro....your second link had some hard core stuff

....good that you deleted...

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 May 2011 23:30

Altair wrote:
CRamS wrote:And my fear is that in these dealings, the ultimate carrot that US will dangle before TSP is LET. India will be sold out. No justice for the victims of 26/11 and other victims of TSP terror.
Unless India SEALs paki fate on our own. In the long run, US must involve India at some stage while dealing with Pakistan. It is not that easy to just sellout India. Its just an instinct but It is possible that India would have had the hint that Osama is near Islamabad.

Most of the countries will also have plans to take care of their criminals now inside Pak

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 03 May 2011 23:31

^^^^ but link is still there. i realize i posted it in undue haste. May be prthvi or mods can delete it.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 03 May 2011 23:34

Bin Laden is dead! It is good for India! for United States! for Pakistan too! It is better for Pakistan govt to dismiss the ISI heads and appoint some who will be sympathetic to Pakistan's growth and prosperiety rather than production and support of terrorists into Pakistan and into the world! ISI and Army should be controlled by those who are sympathetic to democracy and other positive values of humanity that Islam promotes. Pakistan should get rid of all those who are still creating terror in their country and other countries. Those who are doctrinised with terror Islam by Osama should redoctrinated. There should be no sympathy to violence against any innocent human beings whether it is done in the name of religion or politics or anythings. If these terrorised people do not change them dump them in the sea! This is a great chance of ISI and Pakistani Army to work with democratically elected govt for the betterment of their citizens. Osama's death be a lesson for the terror groups in Pakistan.

madhum · Post by **madhum** » 03 May 2011 23:38

Can never stay away from those goats, can they

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13266944

He never stepped inside the compound and his impression was that only one person lived there but, he added, that every now and then he saw a red pick-up vehicle, with a goat inside, being driven to the compound.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 03 May 2011 23:38

Interesting scenes ad deffndumb (its back on btw). Porkis have done mass downhill skiing from 'you stoopid bhartis, it was a joint operation' to 'Fauj ki ma ki %&^%&'

As usual some bleeding heart Yindoos have taken it upon themselves to spin CT in defense of TSPA

Sukumar · Post by **Sukumar** » 03 May 2011 23:40

Rahul M wrote:discussion on the mystery helo over at milphotus.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... Laden-raid

The US chopper that crashed was an AH-6 Little Bird. Small and nimble, just the right size to land inside high walled compounds. http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9331 ... zy2wd9.jpg

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 03 May 2011 23:40

Now here .. one shameless Paki tells how he was hit below the belt...

High Commissioner defends Pakistan role in bin Laden death
A few minutes video and the story..barf bag advised.

madhum · Post by **madhum** » 03 May 2011 23:41

Does anyone remember the last time a video message was released by Bin Laden? Did he release any videos since moving to
this compound?? May be he was under ISI house arrest and they didn't let me release a video for what ever logic??

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 03 May 2011 23:45

Was watching the white house press briefing. Sorry, but they have totally messed up the story. First they said they photographed him and did some DNA stuff in a hangar in afghanistan. In the statement they read out by press sec after the mission, the heli's flew direct to the North arabian sea. Washed his body... etc.

Also, he mentioned 2 heli's were involved in the operation. Can 2 heli's hold 70 to 80 soldiers with all their equipment? There was a statement that there were 2 back up heli's. So one crashed. The soldiers blew it up and got picked up by the back up helicopter.

mmmmm..... something is definitely not right here. They have messed up the story. you really think the helicropers would have flew through pak all the way to the north arabian sea? I would have thought they would have gone back to afghanistan and then from there flew to the carrier.

Someone please help me here.

You are telling me for 40 minutes no policeman/onlookers ends up turning up at the site in a friggin city? Okay maybe it was midnight, but even then, no one would know seriousness of operation.

The press sec said there was a firefight "throughout" the engagement in the compound, which does suggest that there was more to the incident and someone did turn up.

Either ISI totally sold this chap out or ISI was totally caught unawares and there was some small scale engagement by the TSPA. Plus, the PMA and regiments being there may have been a "deterrent" from the beginning.

There is more to the story. Lets see.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 03 May 2011 23:46

The wives and kids left behind are the strongest piece of evidence as yet, imho.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 03 May 2011 23:48

Gagan for you

Photos posted by RealityVirtual who tweeted live the raid on Lair of OBL. Many photos there.

madhum · Post by **madhum** » 03 May 2011 23:48

madhum wrote:Does anyone remember the last time a video message was released by Bin Laden? Did he release any videos since moving to
this compound?? May be he was under ISI house arrest and they didn't let me release a video for what ever logic??

Never mind. Found it on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videos_and ... _bin_Laden

Looks like last video message was in 2007.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 03 May 2011 23:52

CRamS wrote:its clear to me that US wants to nail everyone they can think of is even remotely responsible for 9/11. And to this end, there are still big ticket items on the menu: Mullah Omar for a start....So even now, TSP has utility for US to catch some big fish of interest to USA. And after the arse whipping TSP is receiving right now, you can be rest assured of the guboing going on.

Its not just about the past, but the present and future. Unless the Taliban and Haqqanis as are broken, the US can not reduce its military and security commitment in Af-Pak.

The Americans have understand they have to do this inspite of the PA and ISI in places, and in others by twisting their arms.

It doesn't require even a squirrel brain to realize that TSP was using OBL to milk the maximum out of US (on this point I must admit that while I knew the games TSP was up to, I thought OBL was dead and gone a long time ago), and they were holding him out for the right moment.

Yes, but OBL was much, much more than a bargaining chip to the Pakistani Army.

Do you remember what happened when the Americans first tried to kill Bin Laden in 1998? Most of the casualties from the attack were Pakistani jihadis from Deobandi tanzeems like HuJI who had joined his "Global Front against Crusaders and Jews". Pakistan has always needed OBL to help it deal with some of the more truculent jihadis who respected an Arab mujahid far more than a Pakistani general.

Just as importantly OBL represented a connection to generous GCC donors (not just Saudi, but Qatari, Emirati and Kuwaiti too) who kept the jihadi-oriented groups expanding in Pakistan. The more money, the more institutions and capacity, and the more jihadi manpower Pakistan had to pursue its goals in Central Asia, Afghanistan and India. The Pakistani state simply can not afford to run all those madrasas, and pay for all those maulvis pumping out hate.

And I expect that TSP will sacrifice some precious goats. And my fear is that in these dealings, the ultimate carrot that US will dangle before TSP is LET. India will be sold out. No justice for the victims of 26/11 and other victims of TSP terror.

Any sort of lasting deal assumes that the LeT's or the PA's nature can be changed.

The LeT is a Salafi group, and that means it has a Pan-Islamist vision, like the Deobandi Pakiban.

Can we really see them staying out of the Global Jihad for more than five minutes?

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 03 May 2011 23:55

shyamd,

to me commonsense says that once the op started even if tsp knew they could have done nothing. no#1. given that there were helis and high tech soldiers, abdul police could not have engaged or done anything to stall or divert the op. they would have deferred to military guys who would immediately know that the forces were american. there is no way they would engage. ombaba would have come out and said we were taking out obl.

the only thing worse than the optics of massa ferreting out obl from tsp's heartland is the optics of tsp fighting the massa in tsp heartland when all massa was trying to do was to ferret obl from tsp heartland.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 03 May 2011 23:58

does this mean tsp has burnt some bridges in ksa?

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 03 May 2011 23:58

What is the Urdu writing on the wall (probably irrelevant - still...)?

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 03 May 2011 23:58

Taliban expresses doubts over the veracity of OBL killings....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110503/ap_ ... fghanistan

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 May 2011 00:00

What the f$%&k is the differnece between "Global Jihad" and Jihad against SDREs? As long as terrorist are classified in these terms, TSP can play games.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » 04 May 2011 00:02

shyamd wrote:Was watching the white house press briefing.
You are telling me for 40 minutes no policeman/onlookers ends up turning up at the site in a friggin city?
The press sec said there was a firefight "throughout" the engagement in the compound, which does suggest that there was more to the incident and someone did turn up.
Either ISI totally sold this chap out or ISI was totally caught unawares and there was some small scale engagement by the TSPA. Plus, the PMA and regiments being there may have been a "deterrent" from the beginning.
There is more to the story. Lets see.

WH press briefings are a circus by themselves.

With retired Pakistani military personnnel living in neighborhood one would expect at least a couple of curious Pakistanis to take a closer look at the sounds of choppers, gun fire, explosions breaking walls, doors etc. and top it the burning of a chopper that can be seen far away in the dark of the night.

I too suspect that Osama was sold out by ISI as a sign of cooperation post Raymond Davis episode. This all can be confirmed if Hillary goes to Pakistan with big bags of money.