News - Osama Bin Laden - killed In Pakistan

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 04 May 2011 14:01

Lol. Basically, I think ISI guessed that people would have picked the movements up and told CIA as a good wh0re would do.
Hekmatyar is a PRC/ISI hand anyway and had a ceasefire in place. ISI was probably using OBL to talk to these guys about post pull out or peace plans.

OBL being based in abottabad was probably deterrence against unkil operations of some sort I feel. Nwfp would have been easy to launch specops and was still being used for drone ops, so its safe to say ISI thought he was safer under their nose than close to the border.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 May 2011 14:02

so its likely if the 'cameraman' SEAL was part of the group that blew their way into the bedroom, the Ops Room got footage live of OBL being gunned down. this is probably a first in the C4I look between the shooter to political command.
many SEAls could have mounted cameras and fed that back to orbiting heli/drone which piped it to ops room 'studio' where a bank of TVs could give overall picture.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 May 2011 14:07

Anujan wrote: This is the compound in 2004

Ahhhh!

I know why Osammy was killed.

I have heard from a renowned architect that the triangle shape is very unsound from the point of view of vaastu

He should never have been staying there.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2011 14:11

Can ISI say they failed to protect Osmama?
Can they say they sheltered him?
Can they say they cooperated with SEAL?

Can they say they provided intel to CIA helping track him?

imagine their choice:- Devil and deep sea. Interesting times ahead. What and whose fate lie in those storage devices.

Watch the spin. Roemer says such an operation would not be acceptable from any other country(read India)

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 May 2011 14:16

shiv wrote:
Ahhhh!

I know why Osammy was killed.

I have heard from a renowned architect that the triangle shape is very unsound from the point of view of vaastu

He should never have been staying there.

Do you read minds? I had same thoughts. vaastu that it is. ISI is now relieved. got to tell them

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 May 2011 14:23

Singha wrote:so its likely if the 'cameraman' SEAL was part of the group that blew their way into the bedroom, the Ops Room got footage live of OBL being gunned down. this is probably a first in the C4I look between the shooter to political command.
many SEAls could have mounted cameras and fed that back to orbiting heli/drone which piped it to ops room 'studio' where a bank of TVs could give overall picture.

Surely there would have been more than one "cameraman" seal.

When will we ever get political leadership of such caliber? Instead of jokers plotting and scheming for plots of land and flats

Good or bad, the american leaders have all had big brown hairy @#lls.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 May 2011 14:31

Breaking News. FWIW.

Bin Laden's 12 yr old daughter who was in the room when Osama was killed has said that Osama was first captured and then shot while in custody of the commandos.

The daughter has made this statement to 'Authorities' (guess who the authorities would be)
Possibly a conspiracy theory spinned by the Paki Media at the behest of the ISI.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 May 2011 14:34

Navy seals, (as also India's Marine Commando Force) job is special ops.

They deal with not also commando raids, but intel gathering, interrogation of captives in equal measure.

So intel gathering is an important part of their job.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 04 May 2011 14:40

Any views on how this plays out in next stage. Already hearing a clamour for US and UK to speed up withdrawal form Afhganistan now that 'the job is done'. Largely from politicians. Some analysts are saying concentrate on Pak now.

What are the implications for India in both scenarios?
Implications for US/UK aid to Pakistan? I heard a lot of analysis on Paki equipment aid from the US.

Worse case scenario for India

- US buys Paki line that you need us in Afghanistan and takes no further action to punish them for hosting OBL.
- Election victory ensured and vengance done by 'getting our man' Obama supported by public opinion hasten withdrawal from Afhganistan
- UK opinion cools down under intense Paki diaspora and Labour Lib Dem lobbying
- Aid continues to Pak and Pak concentrates on building up arty and air power against India.
- Pak moves in to Afghanistan slowly after US departure and achive their dream of strategic depth
- Simulataneously Pak throws sop to LeT et all to vent frustartion at India
- Terrorist attacks in India
- Manmohan displays 'Manmohan Anger' ie raves and rants on national tv ala 26/11 but does nothing
- The indian political and bureaucractic community doesnt care - why should they? They have their dedicated personal security
- Manmohan Singh ably aided by India media, congress/left and the IFS lobby muddles along trying to dig wells in Afghanistan and build schools and roads but stays away from strategic issues
- China is invited in by Pak as next paymaster
- China completes land route to Gwador and builds multiple roads to Afghanistan
- Karzai and co pusnished for speaking up against Pak
- Pak gets strategic depth, China pulls the strings, ring of pearls completed with a beautiful ruby fortuitously delivered
- Its 2015, we have practically NO tube arty, airforce has 25 really active fighter squadrons with almost no A2G capability (Jaguars reengining never happened - single vendor problem, MIG 27 have engine problems and MMCRA induction is atleast a decade away)
- Pak decides to settle the main score - 1971! And our Chinese friends decide to join in - ala Vivek Ahuja's scenarios
- Assam erupts ala Kashmir...the Bangladeshi immigrants have reached critical mass
- The party is on

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 04 May 2011 14:41

That statement was expected, after the statement coming from the White House that OBL was unarmed. I dont think he could find his bearings even 30 minutes into the attack on the mansion, shows that he was overweight, sluggish, staggering (and diseased).

Am quite sure that the corpse was subjected to significant mutilation and plenty of sadism.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 04 May 2011 14:42

On CNN: Now being reported that Besides OBL's body, the seals took another man (alive) away in the helo. Hotly denied by the US.

Maybe the Pakis are telling the truth

or maybe Pakis terminated one of them because he knew too much.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 04 May 2011 14:51

Zaid Hamid is back !!! Patton style speech ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb3dmzKd6fQ

Warning by the mahdi to the YYY ....

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 04 May 2011 14:51

This whole affair is so interesting! Such a "Rashomon" affair!

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 04 May 2011 14:51

If you were Osama, what would be your top priority post 9-11? I think the consensus will be "Personal Safety" (so that he can continue inspiring and guiding terror ops worldwide). In such a situation, to avoid prying American eyes, would your choice be Abbotabad? Not a chance in hell, and not unless guarantees were provided, i.e. only if you were assured of safety 400% and if your lieutenants bought into that. And such assurance can only be provided by the Pakistan military.

Not sure why this angle is not being examined so far by the Americans. The only person who I heard mentioning this was our former IB Director Ajit Doval in an NDTV comment yesterday.

Now, there are two possibilities: He agreed to a relocation to Abbotabad from wherever he was in FATA/PATA based on such assurances, and of his own free will, and continued living there since 2005-2006 witht he full knowledge of selected officers (serving and retired) in the Pakistani military establishment. It is clear that the cantonment area was considered to be safe by the Pakistani military, and Osama was within reach of proper medical treatment and a Pak military medic was living within 100 yards of Osama's residence, according to latest reports.

It is also possible that, at some point, he became a "virtual hostage" as options for moving elsewhere faded out.

Either way, he was dependent on the Pakistani army for sustenance, protection and medical care. And they have denied it vigorously. Between 2001-2005, when they must have known where he was in order to have him shifted to Abbotabad in 2005-06. In short, since 9/11 Osama has been hidden by the Pakistani military. This is not surprising, and should not be, as the idea for 9/11 and the training for that event as well as the funding were all inspired, conceived and guided by officers of the Pakistani military, both serving and retired.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 04 May 2011 14:54

^^^ As you point out, the relocation to Abbottabad was several years after 9/11. By that time his military backers may have felt things had "cooled down" enough. Also there is the simple consideration of health & family. Bin Laden was getting old and tired.

The Pakis constantly overestimate their ability to pull the wool over others' eyes.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 04 May 2011 14:55

Kati wrote:a must read....

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110504/j ... 936650.jsp

things may not be that dull for Pak

What is this idiot smoking?

The Indian low IQ media morons somehow can't even bear the thought of end game for pikes has begun. It is like stockholm syndrome or pure hatred of their own country. The CUMS from undyTV, idiots like this are all busy coming up with story after story citing xinhua or hallucinating and spinning their own stories on how pikes have helped the US.

I don't understand why. But I guess they are afraid that pukestan may end as we know that might end the terrorism in inida and India might become too strong. They want to perpetuate their theory that yindoo bad India is in arms race with poor, innocent pukestan and is the reason for the suffering of 170 mil poor Muslims and hence deserves all the terror. This is the the thoery time and again repeated by Arundhoti type scums.

The pukestan had no clue what was happening.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 04 May 2011 14:56

What Akshay says is definitely possible. Frighteningly so. Because our polity, regardless of parties is weak. Kandahar, kargil, cricket diplomacy and numerous other examples going back to '62. It is only when the armed forces have been given a free hand have we come up trumps!

Imagine the Paki Foriegn secretary making a statement thet India's comments on other terrorists are also provided safe havens in Pakistan as being "detrimental to the peace process".

We should talk more from a position of strength that they need us more than we need them. But putting it in perspective, even the congressmen are saying that the pakis have been taking them for a ride from the days of the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 May 2011 14:59

The policy of giving protection and sheltering a leader of some group who is on the run is an old tactic. It gives the protector the ability to control the group. So one can expect, that Pakistanis were trying to control Al Qaeda, Arab jihadists in the region, etc., basically anybody who had pledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda! This way the Pakistanis could control the direction of terror, intensity of terror, timing of terror, responsibility of any outfits, organizational hierarchy of various outfits, cooperation amongst various outfits, dialog between various outfits, any rebellion against the Pakistani Establishment, etc. All this constitutes power!

Anybody who is wanted outside Pakistan, whose foot-soldiers are in wars outside Pakistan, are eligible for Pakistani protection, giving them power, power with which they then negotiate with foreign governments for concessions in lieu for Pakistani cooperation.

Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Mullah Mohammed Omar, Ibrahim Dawood are some examples! Even the West indulges in such practices! After all, Altaf Hussain, Pervez Musharraf, earlier Benazir Bhutto were all living in London.

The day Pakistan loses its captives - OBL, Zawahiri, Mullah Omar, etc. Pakistan would lose control over various jihadist organizations in Pakistan, and they will start eating away Pakistan!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 May 2011 15:02

BURUR,

Very imbortant sign given py Shiekh Oss-Aama him self.
Py seeing satellite photu of hij mansion one can see the sign left py Sheikh Oss-Aama himself.

See the House of the shiekh ij in the form oph an arrow. Iph we draaw a line phrom the house along the direction of the arrow look where it leads to.

I yam telling joo all, NASA, CIA, ISRO, and SUAR-CO are all phail in comparision to bhaat saantists oph BENIS have discovered.

salam

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 04 May 2011 15:06

JE Menon,

That makes a lot of sense. Very good point. But as you say..why on earth is no one talking about that in the Indian media? They are going out of their way to support the Paki stand. Barkha Dutt was anchoring this show you are refering to. Bith Ajit Doval and KC Singh were there. I wrote to her quetsioning NDTV's coverage of the issue and we exchanged a couple of emails. I am afraid they were not being objective and just didnt get the point. I was swtiching between Sky TV, BBC, NDTV and print media like FT, WSJ, NYT and Wshington Post. The difference in coverage was STARK.

Akshay

Akshay

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 04 May 2011 15:09

True RajanB,

For now the Paki's bacon is certainly in the fire! Schadenfruede...

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 04 May 2011 15:14

Gagan ji, too good onlee

Did Tajikistan reject a request from ISI with respect to al-Zawahiri? Some kind of deal making between Tajiks and AQ for renewed terms and conditions of poppy revenue sharing arrangement.

What is the likelihood that unkil was losing out big time on poppy deals in Afghania thanks to below-the-bench dealing by AQ?

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 04 May 2011 15:23

RajeshA,

Bulls eye. So does the US and west have a long term interest in countering this power beyond getting 'their man'?

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 04 May 2011 15:35

RajeshA wrote:The policy of giving protection and sheltering a leader of some group who is on the run is an old tactic. It gives the protector the ability to control the group.

Indeed, in this type of case it is also related to the traditions and expectations of tribal hospitality!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 May 2011 15:36

its always been a bit surprising how :
pakistan being KSAs dog
KSA wanting bin laden's head for stirring up anti-royalty forces and calling them dogs
KSA main source of pakfunds and remittances
bin laden of little use to pak against India
yet still he was given shelter and kept all these years by GoPak.
he was held as a bargaining chip by pak to extract all that they did.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 May 2011 15:37

RajeshA wrote: The day Pakistan loses its captives - OBL, Zawahiri, Mullah Omar, etc. Pakistan would lose control over various jihadist organizations in Pakistan, and they will start eating away Pakistan!

In addition, Pakistan shares some of the control with its 3 friends (not sure if the halfling has a role here) in ensuring that the "anger" that the Govts of those countries generate, is channelized in proper direction. (that explains the answer to the BRF reaction of "wtf are these countries doing with Pakistan!!")

Imagine a AlQ type operation without any influence what so ever of Pakistani establishment. What a open season it would be for these nations then. They are trying to do a "Neo" within the system with Pak help.

The question is, is this a sustainable game for them? My answer is yes (much like SSridhar mentioned) -- it is and has been a sustainable game for them for quite some time now.

The only player who can upset the balance is India, but she is not acting right now.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 May 2011 15:41

Network centric SEALS.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 May 2011 15:43

kapoor sahab, it's your fault that you watch undie-TV. the rest aren't as bad, barring IBN, which is worse.
times now for example is skewering pakis with a vengeance. why give your valuable viewership to anti-India media ? btw, if you want to discuss media, please do so in the media watch thread, not here.

also, I would advice against painting the babus with the same brush as politicians. from whatever indications we get, it is only the babus that have prevented a complete crumbling of India's foreign policy in the face of numerous bumbling politicians with ministerial ranks.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 May 2011 16:10

Sanku wrote:
RajeshA wrote: The day Pakistan loses its captives - OBL, Zawahiri, Mullah Omar, etc. Pakistan would lose control over various jihadist organizations in Pakistan, and they will start eating away Pakistan!
In addition, Pakistan shares some of the control with its 3 friends (not sure if the halfling has a role here) in ensuring that the "anger" that the Govts of those countries generate, is channelized in proper direction. (that explains the answer to the BRF reaction of "wtf are these countries doing with Pakistan!!")

Imagine a AlQ type operation without any influence what so ever of Pakistani establishment. What a open season it would be for these nations then. They are trying to do a "Neo" within the system with Pak help.

The question is, is this a sustainable game for them? My answer is yes (much like SSridhar mentioned) -- it is and has been a sustainable game for them for quite some time now.

The only player who can upset the balance is India, but she is not acting right now.

Sanku ji,

that is how it seems to be. The West has been bombing, subduing, robbing, dividing, screwing, corrupting the Muslim world for a long time. A reactionary pressure builds up. That reactionary pressure needs to be managed and channelized properly. In early days, some chieftains were able to pacify their followers by saying "Allah ki marzi"! So it was easier to cope with the reaction. These days, the West has allowed the Muslims to get too close to them for comfort. It was probably considered as useful in order to have a bigger say in the Muslim societies but now in the 2nd, 3rd generation, the Muslim immigrants have become more radical, the Islamic movements, which the West earlier encouraged, have become more aggressive towards the West, so a need arises for a partner, which has its fingers deep into the Islamic milieu.

That role is being played by Pakistan. But now Pakistan itself has become compromised, and the Pakistani establishment does not know anymore where its loyalty lies, especially with the Islamic piranhas snapping at their own heels.

If the West, lends out its wife to its enemy, in order to spy for him, at some point in time, the wife would not really know who her real husband is!

But the West is not as yet sure, that the wife's loyalty cannot won back by buying her a new necklace! This is the basic dilemma in which the West would find itself for a long time, especially as the wife keeps sending out feelers, that she still loves you and continues to tell you a thing or two about the enemy! Even though one suspects its only for the necklace but hope dies last.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 May 2011 16:15

Airfield at Ghazi, Tarbela
This was a neglected and ramshackled airstrip was in poor repair and was abandoned till about 2005.

Then it was given to the US as a helicopter base, possibly for launching special ops in KP.
It is also possible that this base also launches Predator and Reaper drones.

All the construction, runways, hangers, living quarters have mostly been constructed starting around 2005.

It is also claimed by some that base was one of the launching points of the operation to eliminate Osama Bin Laden. That might not be surprising, if this base is completely in the possession of US forces, and they regularly launch heliborne assault operations into KP from here. If the base is completely in the possession of the US forces, then perhaps the only pakistani presence here would be a few pakistani army liason officers.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 04 May 2011 16:16

Seemingly unrelated "crashes" of PAF birds

1. A helicopter crash in Tarbela-Ghazi

2. PAF mirage crash in Jhang

These could well be fallouts of amriki counter-measures during the OBL snatch, and are now being late-reported as "crashes".

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 May 2011 16:22

I see the shadow of 2 little bird type heli in your last pic. the size and neatness of the hangers do have the pug marks of sher khan all over it.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 04 May 2011 16:37

If the amirkhan operation was indeed launched from Ghazi Tarbela, then OBL could be literally said to have invited his own death in true "Aa behl mujhe maar" style.

Thinking about it, the fact that there were around 9 women in the house indicated that he was not a true ghazi anymore, moreover cohabiting with women who were not of Arabic stock could indicate that he was being fattened up for the kill. Desert dwellers lose their effectiveness when they come into contact with sub-continental fraternization. Imagine a person who used to get by just consuming lean meat, dates and a low carb diet switching to the high carb, fatty and spicy sub-continental food!

Perhaps, in the quest to impart arabization to paki faithfuls, OBL became more sub-continental in the process, after all he was never known for the clarity of his thinking!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 04 May 2011 16:39

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/osama ... rt/785902/

Osama's Pak den belonged to group active in Kashmir, Hizbul Mujahideen: Report

Hizbul Mujahedeen, a militant group active in Kashmir, owned the mansion in the scenic town of Abbottabad where Osama bin Laden was killed by US forces, a Canadian newspaper has reported, claiming that Pakistan is hushing up the issue of the ownership of the compound.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 04 May 2011 16:47

Rahulji,

I dont watch NDTV at all. Infact I try to tell family and friends that they are very biased. I just thought that in this case when the rest of the world's press was roasting the Paki's the Indian media would be atleast as critical. I do take your point about anti India media but Rahul in this case even these chaps are saying what is in our interests. Not my itention to discuss media specifically but in this case media is an important weapon in the calculus because they impact dissemination of info which forms opinion which forms policy. AFAIK NDTV is very widely watched and is seen as the defualt Indian news channel by lay people abroad. A lot of people in my office in London watch it and take that as the definitive Indian media.

Not having a detailed media discussion here just in its context as a very powerful opinion former here. Happy not to say anymore if its distracting.

Re babus, let me think a bit about what you say and correlate it to my experience. Perhaps can take that offline.

Akshay

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 04 May 2011 16:49

If the eye yes eye was doing a joint operation, they would have burned and destroyed all the computers and storage media f.first before giving up OBL.

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 04 May 2011 16:52

An interesting read ! Does this mean that uncle is tilting now towards India ? I don't belive atleast !
'Pakistan might have gotten very, very lucky on Sunday'

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 04 May 2011 17:04

Sanku wrote:http://www.indianexpress.com/news/osama ... rt/785902/

Osama's Pak den belonged to group active in Kashmir, Hizbul Mujahideen: Report

Hizbul Mujahedeen, a militant group active in Kashmir, owned the mansion in the scenic town of Abbottabad where Osama bin Laden was killed by US forces, a Canadian newspaper has reported, claiming that Pakistan is hushing up the issue of the ownership of the compound.

This implies that the following:

Plenty of documentation is required for constructing any kind of house, not to mention such a huge mansion:

Allotment letter
Possession order
Site Plan and sub-divided site plan
All paid utility bills and challans
Approval and completion of the building plan
Completion certificate
Transfer/Mutation Order
Power of Attorney, duly executed in the office of the Sub-registrar concerned.

And how about all the regulations and building permits required for the high walls and barbed wire.

Were fabricated/forged very early on, or were created initially and later destroyed (as recently as after Sunday night).

Now the question which arises is whether the two 'brothers' used faked id cards to transport messages from OBL by donkey to HM in Muzzafarabad.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 04 May 2011 17:06

A link to the Canadian story, wherever it was, must be tweeted ad infinitum.
The mileage on this is incomparable.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 04 May 2011 17:22

Times group in India is the most critical and outspoken faction of popular english media in India on this issue. When all other media groups and sarkaar itself is rather quite OR politically correct about the same. The only person from government who was harshest on this issue was Chiddu.. Arnab of course has been class apart and his heart is in right place, one can see that from 26/11 reportage. But can someone join these two dots? times is known to be pro-west. The fact that many good people (GP for eg) choose to come on times shows the respect the channel wields amongst the true intellectuals. we have data points all over the graph.. how does the curve look like. which dots to exclude as noise and which to take as signal?