Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2011

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 04 May 2011 12:05

abhishek_sharma wrote:

Members of Jamaat-ud-Dawa pray for OBL

These could also be army ppl showing their feelings towards the coming up GUBO from unkil.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 04 May 2011 12:22

abhishek_sharma wrote:

Members of Jamaat-ud-Dawa pray for OBL

Is there a fatwa against proper grooming of large beards?

RajeshG · Post by **RajeshG** » 04 May 2011 12:25

I dont think anybody was under any doubt that the TSPA was harbouring OBL - everybody knew OBL was TSPA's prized asset but all this was thinly veiled under nuances and diplo-speak. I think BHO's move is being called gutsy because of that. People must have known that if Kayani even threw a couple of grenades in the compound the whole operation would have to be aborted. But Kayani blinked and BHO didnt. Not only did BHO not blink, he actually came on TV and gave a live speech and made it a public spectacle - the only thing he didnt do was an NFL style celebration. And now, BHO, the first black president, is TFTA and Kayani a hijdaa commander of hijdaa fauj. It could have easily gone in the opposite direction but it didnt because of BHO's gutsiness and Kayani's chakkagiri. It will be interesting to see how TSPA reacts. AoA.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 May 2011 12:41

The next crore kammandu's conference will be one to watch for. Half the crore kammandu would want to do something to restore their H&D. The other half will brown their shalwars after Unkil's ultimatum. Either way, one group is sure to get purged.

If India had said or done something drastic, they could atleast cover up their loss of sovirginity by making some noise about India. MMS did a pre-emptive pappi.

saket · Post by **saket** » 04 May 2011 12:43

Listening to the comments in the American media I realize that even the mighty USA is helpless and unable to decisively take on pakistan on its treachery. The only thing they can do is to shout about it in their newsrooms.

Puts a slight perspective on Indian pusillanimity wrt pakis as well. Although there are many incomparables.

sum · Post by **sum** » 04 May 2011 12:58

Pakistan on Tuesday described as "outdated" India's demand for action against the perpetrators of the 2008 Mumbai attacks in the wake of the killing of Osama bin Laden, with Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir saying that such statements were not "helpful" for the peace process.

Could some kind soul ask for a reaction from Shri MMS to this statement by his Paki friend?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 May 2011 12:59

Looks like Kayani is being sold out by the Americans.
WikiLeaks: Pak's Gen Kayani - avid golfer, heavy smoker, mumbles

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 04 May 2011 13:17

Hundreds offered prayers for Bin Laden on a street in Karachi, declaring him a martyr.: NYT

----

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 04 May 2011 14:16

Charlie wrote:India's demand for action against terrorists in Pakistan 'outdated'

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Tuesday described as "outdated" India's demand for action against the perpetrators of the 2008 Mumbai attacks in the wake of the killing of Osama bin Laden, with Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir saying that such statements were not "helpful" for the peace process.

Peace process is outdated too. It's been going on for ages and yielding only piss. MMS and WKKs should rot in hell.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 May 2011 15:07

Pakistan is itself 'outdated'! Pakistan Pain-in-the-Butt!

chiragAS · Post by **chiragAS** » 04 May 2011 15:12

Anujan wrote:If India had said or done something drastic, they could atleast cover up their loss of sovirginity by making some noise about India. MMS did a pre-emptive pappi.

could not agree more.

vanand · Post by **vanand** » 04 May 2011 17:42

What a logic from groper

http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/04/world-sh ... ilani.html

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 May 2011 17:58

saket wrote:Listening to the comments in the American media I realize that even the mighty USA is helpless and unable to decisively take on pakistan on its treachery. The only thing they can do is to shout about it in their newsrooms.

Puts a slight perspective on Indian pusillanimity wrt pakis as well. Although there are many incomparables.

saket, you are right to a large extent IMHO. However, there are some significant differences too, again as you said.

The Americans have a long-standing relationship with the Pakistanis in which they have been both hand-in-glove on many misdeeds. They have shared many secrets. Both of them still need each other for different reasons. Tactically, Afghanistan is a huge problem and even if dependency on Pakistan may significantly be reduced once the withdrawals start in a few months' time, the US may not like to upset the balance now. Nobody knows what will emerge in Afghanistan. Then, there is the Iran factor. I hope that Afghanistan is not replaced by Iran so that dependence on Pakistan extends for another decade. The US knows that China will swamp Pakistan the moment the US leaves that country or takes major steps against it. Pakistan is already conceding a lot of sovereignty to that country. Besides, the US needs Pakistan to keep tabs on India and keep India in check too. They do not want India to become another China. The Americans also fear (at least that's what they openly say) anarchy in a nuclear-weapon state if they push the Pakistanis too hard and it keels over.

For their part, the Pakistanis know that the US is still way too powerful, the US markets are tempting for the Pakistani textiles, the US can exercise influence on Europe or India on its behalf. Moreover, they know that it is only the Americans who give hard cash, both bilaterally and through multilateral agencies, and not the Chinese. The Pakistanis also know that all said and done, they would like to lay their hands on American arms & ammunition and be able to send their children to the US. They also fear that the US can make their lives very miserable indeed if they so choose.

So, both are like thieves stung by a scorpion while being engaged in the act of thieving, unable to cry aloud and at the same time unable to bear the creeping poison and the pain. It is certain that the relationship is on a downward spiral relentlessly since 1990. There have been some ups but mostly there are downs. . However, it may reach a new depth every now and then, but it is a bottomless pit for reasons mentioned above and so it will go on like this for a long time. We SDREs are disappointed therefore when the US-Pakistan relationship recovers from what appears a certain brink.

OTOH, we in India are trying to raise our relationship with Pakistan to higher levels even as we face Pakistani treachery of humongous proportions every day. We believe that we can turn Pakistan around or at least stop it from sliding into more chaos than it already is. We also believe that somehow we can culturally, commercially overwhelm them and that soft-power projection will blunt their aggression and hatred against us. None of these is possible in a country which is willing to become a Sunni, Salafi Caliphate if not an Islamic Caliphate.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 May 2011 18:10

-edited-

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 04 May 2011 18:13

http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?271660
A Jihadi Frankenstein's Monster

He might not have acquired the iconic image which he developed subsequently but for the use of him by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIAS) and the agencies of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia which projected him as a jihadi fighter par excellence in order to use him for mobilising Muslim youth of the Arab world for the jihad against the Soviet troops and the Marxist ideology.

With the assistance of these agencies, he forced the Soviet troops to withdraw from Afghanistan and helped to bring Afghanistan under the control of medieval Islamic forces in the form of the Taliban. His medieval version of Islam, which is condemned today by the US, was encouraged by the US in the 1980s to use it as a strategic weapon against Marxism .

This jihadi Frankenstein’s monster, jointly created by the agencies of the US, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, became the world’s most dreaded terrorist who spread death and destruction across the world through his Al Qaeda and International Islamic Front (IIC) starting from 1996. The 9/11 terrorist strikes in the US Homeland made the US realize that the reach of this monster of its own creation had extended up to the US.

The monster was found hiding in the place where the Pakistan Army was born and where its new officer-recruits are trained every year. Abbotabad is the cradle of the Pakistan Army and in that cradle was found the monster. There were indicators of a cosy relationahip between the monster and one of its original creators—the Pakistani Army and intelligence.

The death of the jihadi Frankenstein’s monster in the cradle of the Pakistan Army has thrown the spotlight even more intensely than till now on another Frankenstein’s monster— namely, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) of Pakistan.

Since the 1980s,the ISI was was pampered, fed and fattened by the US along with the Pakistan Army. The US, which closed its eyes to the pernicious role played by this State Frankenstein’s monster in sponsoring terrorism of various kinds against India, Afghanistan and other countries, is confused and does not know how to act against this State Frankenstein’s monster after having killed the non-State monster.

The end of OBL will not be the end of international jihadi terrorism. The non-state head of international jihadi terrorism may be dead, but the State of Pakistan, which continues to use this terrorism, lives in a denial mode. Neither the State of Pakistan nor its civil society is prepared to admit that Al Qaeda and its surviving leaders have managed to escape arrest, prosecution or death so far, because of the support extended to them by the State of Pakistan. The same is the case with the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LET) and other jihadi affiliates of Al Qaeda.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 May 2011 18:13

Altair, why even speculate about something for which there is not an iota of evidence ?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 May 2011 18:19

abhishek_sharma wrote:

Members of Jamaat-ud-Dawa pray for OBL

Group hug.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 May 2011 18:21

Rahul M wrote:Altair, why even speculate about something for which there is not an iota of evidence ?

ok I think I touched something I am not supposed to! My apologies!

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 May 2011 18:22

Had to happen. When cornered, Pakis resort to the last refuge of every scumbag: "Its not us, it's everyone's fault" defence. World shares blame for ‘failure’ on bin Laden: Gilani

Pakistan’s Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said Wednesday that spy agencies around the world share the blame for his country’s failure to capture al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, killed by US forces.

“There is intelligence failure of the whole world, not Pakistan alone.”

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 May 2011 18:45

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 May 2011 18:54

all this speculation of Indian involvement and US tilt..expecting US powers that be to suddenly change course and court us and help us destroy pakistan....i bet that if even OBL was found hiding under kiyani's bed - these things won't happen overnight. let's not indulge in wishful thinking.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 May 2011 18:58

Pakistan's problems are world problems. Its successes are Islamic successes.

World 'failed to track' Bin Laden

Pakistan's prime minister says spy agencies worldwide share the blame for his country's failure to capture Osama Bin Laden, who was killed by US forces.

"We have intelligence failure of the rest of the world including the United States," PM Yousuf Raza Gilani said.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 04 May 2011 19:10

I wish Gilani many more years as head of the Paki government.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 04 May 2011 19:16

RamaY wrote:Pakistan's problems are world problems. Its successes are Islamic successes.

World 'failed to track' Bin Laden

Pakistan's prime minister says spy agencies worldwide share the blame for his country's failure to capture Osama Bin Laden, who was killed by US forces.

"We have intelligence failure of the rest of the world including the United States," PM Yousuf Raza Gilani said.

Gilani is absolutely correct and speaking the truth.

ISI and PA have always known that OBL was living there. It is only the rest of the world who failed to track him. Whose failure is that? It certainly is the failure of the rest of the world.

vic · Post by **vic** » 04 May 2011 19:39

I dont think that Pakistan co-operated in the killing of Osama. If Pakistan had co-operated then this encounter would have been shown or later declared to have taken place in Afghanistan, some border region perhaps. I think USA intel tapped into ISI, discovered Obama, were absolutely sure about his location and level of security, and only then launched a raid to kill him. ISI me thinks has a US mole.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 May 2011 19:59

Upon reflection (and by mentally putting on a Paki general's shit soild khakis) I am getting a sense of what the situation may now be like for the jernails. I mean what does a Paki jernail feel like when he wakes up in the morning 2 days after the Osama episode?

What does he feel? Nothing much has changed. Osama is dead? Fine? they are accused of lying? Fine, so what's new? Have they lost their power? No? Status? No? have they lost half the country? No.

What the Paki jernails have lost is a bargaining position. That might not matter in the short term. But every time Pakis have to bargain for something - every man and his uncle will bring up the 'Osama was in your bedroom" argument. But the Pakistanis as usual will allow more Pakis to be sacrificed and screwed and claim that they are doing more than anyone else. So loss of bargaining position per se may not be too bad.

The other thing the Paki jernails have lost is they have lost face with the jihadis - the TTP and the "bad Taliban". Protecting Osama was a powerful point for the Paki army. Protecting him near an army training unit close to faujis would have shown their sincerity beyond anything else. Losing him is a bad development. The credit for keeping him protected and safe is gone in a jiffy. The hated Americans - who were insulted and "mooh made kaala" (face blackened) by the Davis episode are now lungi dancing - literally. It is all very well for the Paki army to whine and say that they were powerless against the Americans. But tell that to the jihadis. Imagine a Paki khaki jernail telling his jhadi ally that their fauji strength is not all that hot and they let Osama slip out so easy? What kind of respect will they retain among the younger and more fired up jihadis? As it is those jihadis are being snuffed out by the national bird on a regular basis - and Osma the figurehead - who seemed safe and made teh sacrifices seem worth it has been bumbped off - right under the noses of the bumbling army with their nukes and F-16s and Bundaars and Hatfs and Raads. wtf?

The third point is - what will happen if there is - within the next few months - a successful terrorist attack in India or elsewhere that can be traced back to Pakistan? Such an event is most likely to aggravate all the negatives of the situation I have listed above.

I foresee that the Pakistan army will attempt to ask its terror cells to keep their heads down for a while. That leads to an interesting situation

1) If there is no terror attack for a while (anywhere) - it means that the Pakistani army does retain moderate control over terror cells.
2) If there is a terror attack - it means that the Paki army has lost control and its reputation will be tarnished further

Pending further info - especially what they find (and publicise) about Osama's hard disks, my assessment is that the Paki army is further up shit creek.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 20:07

SSridhar, Very apt imagery of stung by pet scorpion and unable to cry out. Even more apt iamges can be drawn but not in a family forum.

Altair, There is the GDF off topic thread for such stuff.

CRS teh US media exposure of TSP perfidy is like ritual stoning for the US public. Sort of catharsis to get back to normal. This exposure begs the question how was the US supporting the TSPA all these years since 9/11! A galaxy of leaders on both sides were insturmental in channeling money and most likely the OBL safehouse was built with US money given afte 2003.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 May 2011 20:12

hussein haqqani on burkha's show yesterdin said words to the effect of 'our air defences are stronger against india than afganistan therefore super-unkil with all his takniki was able to penetrate our rear ofcourse no yindoo has done so why so much surprise hain-ji?'

if we go on the assumption that this was done to the paquis, then either they did not detect any unkil activity or were told to STFU and sit tight by unkil with big stick

gagan-ji, please do look at the terrain from tarbela to abbotabad and the ease or otherwise with which unkil choppers can ingress and egress and thence to jalalabad and bagram

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 May 2011 20:13

OK. The TSPA image now is that of someone who was brandishing their m####gi has shown to be d##do. The more green will take note.

You cant turn off social engineering as if on tap. Takes time and losses.

MMS gave pre-emptive pappi and is still doing that to divert the rage within.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 May 2011 20:15

the pappi was a distraction technique so that unkil could make tspa get cocky and look the other way (from abbotabad)

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 04 May 2011 20:17

MMS gave pre-emptive pappi and is still doing that to divert the rage within.

Just to be clear... it was a non-chankian pre-emptive pappi with 400% pure love.
Hoping it is kiss of death onlee.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 04 May 2011 20:17

sum wrote:

Pakistan on Tuesday described as "outdated" India's demand for action against the perpetrators of the 2008 Mumbai attacks in the wake of the killing of Osama bin Laden, with Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir saying that such statements were not "helpful" for the peace process.

Could some kind soul ask for a reaction from Shri MMS to this statement by his Paki friend?

Having surrendered to TSP, even as US delivers a killer punch to this abomination, some measured statement like PC's or stoic silence would have been the dignified thing to do. But whoever this minion of MMS is, the clown must be slapped on his arse and told to cork his rectum instead of inane statementts like this further exposing India's incompetence and cowardcie in being unable to extract even a semblance of justice nor being able to mete even an iota of a punishment to TSP for its crimes against India

'Pak is not a pushover and the US will learn that'

Yeah right!!!

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 04 May 2011 20:23

shiv wrote: 2) If there is a terror attack - it means that the Paki army has lost control and its reputation will be tarnished further

Saar what stops them from ordering another terrorist attack on India & crying

a. Yindoos did it on themselves to put more blame on Pakistan
b. We could not stop Osama from hiding in Pakistan how are we supposed to stop random non-state actors from blowing themselves up in India
c. This is an attack by Al Qaida (common enemy of both nations as proclaimed by WKK Indians themselves) to trigger a nuclear war between two innocent nations & international community must put sense into India not to fall for their provocation

It's not as if the West gives a shit to what happens in India.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 May 2011 20:27

Chandragupta wrote:
shiv wrote: 2) If there is a terror attack - it means that the Paki army has lost control and its reputation will be tarnished further
Saar what stops them from ordering another terrorist attack on India & crying

a. Yindoos did it on themselves to put more blame on Pakistan
b. We could not stop Osama from hiding in Pakistan how are we supposed to stop random non-state actors from blowing themselves up in India
c. This is an attack by Al Qaida (common enemy of both nations as proclaimed by WKK Indians themselves) to trigger a nuclear war between two innocent nations & international community must put sense into India not to fall for their provocation

It's not as if the West gives a shit to what happens in India.

Nothing stops them from doing that.

All I am saying is that we have to wait and see how things develop and am speculating on what developments might occur.
My take on things is that the Pakistan army is likely to see more benefit from asking terror cells to keep their heads down. That is my assessment and my assessment can be totally wrong.

In fact if a terrorist attack occurs - it could mean exactly what you say. ut it could also mean loss of control as I have speculated.

Generally my heart is kept separate from my head and I write what my head tells me. My heart does not want another terrorist attack, but my heart also hopes something (terrorsit attack) occurs so that the Paki army can be pushed further into doodoo.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 04 May 2011 20:38

shiv wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:
Saar what stops them from ordering another terrorist attack on India & crying

a. Yindoos did it on themselves to put more blame on Pakistan
b. We could not stop Osama from hiding in Pakistan how are we supposed to stop random non-state actors from blowing themselves up in India
c. This is an attack by Al Qaida (common enemy of both nations as proclaimed by WKK Indians themselves) to trigger a nuclear war between two innocent nations & international community must put sense into India not to fall for their provocation

It's not as if the West gives a shit to what happens in India.
Nothing stops them from doing that.

All I am saying is that we have to wait and see how things develop and am speculating on what developments might occur.
My take on things is that the Pakistan army is likely to see more benefit from asking terror cells to keep their heads down. That is my assessment and my assessment can be totally wrong.

In fact if a terrorist attack occurs - it could mean exactly what you say. ut it could also mean loss of control as I have speculated.

Generally my heart is kept separate from my head and I write what my head tells me. My heart does not want another terrorist attack, but my heart also hopes something (terrorsit attack) occurs so that the Paki army can be pushed further into doodoo.

Edited....

arun · Post by **arun** » 04 May 2011 21:02

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s honour and dignity dragged in mud in this article titled “Double game of paranoid Pakistan” by Catherine Philp in the Australian.

Some excerpts:

Pakistan's response - chaotic, contradictory and faintly desperate - underlines all that the world still has to fear from the dysfunction of the nuclear-armed state.

Its world view has long been distorted by its paranoid preoccupation with India.

Pakistan's military is not the world's finest. It has lost every war it has fought.

From here:

Double game of paranoid Pakistan

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 May 2011 21:07

From rediff
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/osama ... 110504.htm

India's sentiments don't resonate with Pakistan's cries of violation of 'sovereignty' by America. The source said if at all such a thing such as a US chopper flies into India, "We will react very violently. But, then, we are not sheltering terrorists."

India's believe is that the Americans did it because when the US intelligence told their government about the presence of terrorists in Pakistan, Pakistan took no action. The source said, "It's not a text book case of violation of sovereignty."

The source added, "There is a war going on in the region, so war-like conditions apply in this case."

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 04 May 2011 21:18

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... 3b549d05d2

House Intel chairman urges caution on Pakistan
(AP) – 4 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee is cautioning against moving precipitously to cut or terminate U.S. aid to Pakistan.
Michigan Republican Mike Rogers says the discovery of Osama bin Laden in a sealed-off compound near a Pakistani military base "is embarrassing to them." He tells ABC's "Good Morning America" Wednesday he believes that institutional entities in Pakistan like the army, intelligence service and government likely didn't know about bin Laden's presence, although he also says that it's possible "some individual might have known."
Rogers says he worries about a "love-hate relationship" with Islamabad. At the same time, he cautions against terminating U.S. assistance. Rogers says "we've got to be careful. They still need us and we still need them. Are they the best partners we've ever had? No."

sum · Post by **sum** » 04 May 2011 21:36

Osama’s death leaves PM’s aman ki asha with Pakistan in tatters?

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s aman ki asha with Pakistan appears to have taken a serious knock with the US hunting down and killing Osama bin Laden near Islamabad.

Congress sources say it will be difficult for Singh to pursue his objective of a breakthrough in dialogue with Pakistan so easily now.

So much so he may have to wait until the situation following Osama’s death has crystallized in the neighbouring country, and would be well advised to avoid any unilateral moves to prove his leadership.

The Prime Minister has always considered his Pakistan policy as the highpoint of the UPA II’s performance. He would like to demit office with a record that he brought a political solution to the troubles with Pakistan.

Also, the Prime Minister was driven by Washington’s pressure to improve ties with Islamabad. That pressure may ease now because the Americans will have to figure it out themselves first their equations with that country– in the wake of their discovery of how Osama was nurtured by the military establishment.

More than the Americans, Congress president Sonia Gandhi is less likely to allow a free hand to the PM than hitherto. With a number of state elections including UP due next year and thereafter, she may prefer caution to any bold move with Pakistan to prevent adverse political fallout, party sources said.

In fact, the PM was taken by surprise by the developments. His reaction to the killing didn’t reach the media for many hours.On the other hand, Home Minister P Chidambaram responded early– by reminding all concerned that India’s case for handing over those behind Mumbai’s 26/11 attack had been strengthened.

The first casualty of Osama’s killing already is the Prime Minister’s trip to Afghanistan, which was to take place around May 6. It may be deferred by at least a few weeks.

The buzz is that Washington had warned that the Prime Minister should not travel to Kabul even before the al Qaida chief was hunted down.

Sigh, wish this were true but knowing MMS and his love for Pak ( Chankian in some BR circles), can expect renewed pappi-jhappi with vigour in coming days.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 May 2011 21:46

shiv wrote:The third point is - what will happen if there is - within the next few months - a successful terrorist attack in India or elsewhere that can be traced back to Pakistan? Such an event is most likely to aggravate all the negatives of the situation I have listed above.

shiv saar,

What Pakistanis have lost is any plausible deniability that had. Mumbai 26/11 brought much of their plausible deniability crumbling as far as terrorism against India was concerned. OBL knock-out has destroyed all of that plausible deniability they had with regard to terrorism directed at the West.

If there is any terrorist attack against the West in the near future, then all the anger that the West is suppressing in order to continue some modicum of the transactional relationship between them and Pakistan would evaporate. Then the anger would pour out bursting. Any terrorist attack would cause anger, and the lightning has to fall somewhere - and now per default that would fall on Pakistan.

Those of us who are bemoaning that despite the fact that the Pakistani Army and ISI were sheltering Osama bin Laden, the West does not seem ready to hit at Pakistan, they are right to feel a little dejected, but they should perhaps wait how the situation changes when there is a new attack!

Pakistan's ISI is the new scapegoat for all terror in the world by default! "Plausible Deniability" is a thing of the past!