Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 May 2011 15:52

T72 and T90 tanks able to drive to Leh region for permanent stationing is welcome news. we need atleast 4 powerful indep armour brigades, atleast 1 acclamatized para brigade(heli delivered) and a full arty division between kargil and pangong-tso imo.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 05 May 2011 19:29

Sometime back (few pages back, I told you that T-90 will not be Russian buy, they will have a new tank by 2015 or so. Some folks questioned my prediction. They said that Russia dose not has a new tank project. Meet the New Russian Tank Armada

The new tank is to have new electronic equipment and the crew will be protected by internal turret. The Armada will be different from the present T-90 in use by the Russian army, says Victor Litovkin, of the “Independent Military Review” paper. He gave an interview to VOR:

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 May 2011 03:49

this was posted ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 May 2011 05:14

sweet. is that a model? by who?

negi · Post by **negi** » 06 May 2011 05:50

Rahul you made it ?

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 06 May 2011 06:15

Any higher res images. That is quality wallpaper material........

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 May 2011 06:42

seems to be professionally shot using a white studio sheet.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 06 May 2011 09:37

guys its CG, the pic dosent look its from the real world - its frm the mayanagari of PS n stuff :p

jai · Post by **jai** » 06 May 2011 10:52

chackojoseph wrote:Sometime back (few pages back, I told you that T-90 will not be Russian buy, they will have a new tank by 2015 or so. Some folks questioned my prediction. They said that Russia dose not has a new tank project. Meet the New Russian Tank Armada

The new tank is to have new electronic equipment and the crew will be protected by internal turret. The Armada will be different from the present T-90 in use by the Russian army, says Victor Litovkin, of the “Independent Military Review” paper. He gave an interview to VOR:

There goes FMBT...

Maybe Drdo should create a partnership with the russaians for a joint FMBT project, where like/unlike the current fgfa project , technologies can be shared and each partner can create their own machines based on their requirements and doctrines....at least is way, Drdo will be able to create a tank that ia would be willing to accept....and thus also save it's work on FMBT.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 06 May 2011 11:20

Interesting to note crew protection is a high priority item for this new tank. I don’t think it was a very high priority item in earlier T series (to the level of western tanks) - open to correction here.

Does that mean increased weight or some other out of the box solution? One can only speculate till the time further details are out.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 May 2011 12:20

P Chitkara wrote:Does that mean increased weight or some other out of the box solution? One can only speculate till the time further details are out.

Armata is a project name for a family of new vehical that is currently undertaken by Ural Heavy Engineering Bureau to design a new series of Tank/BTR/BMP/BREM class of vehicle with many common features shared between all , they call that common chasis.

On the Armata Heavy Tank few recent disclosure by industry/military revel its a heavy series of tank in 50 Ton class , will be a hybrid/electric tank , it will incorporate solutions developed for the canceled Black Eagle/T-95 project , its main gun will be 125 mm type , front engine instead of rear .... its Russian FMBT like project that will come online by 2015.

The near term project is the heavily upgraded T-90A which goes by designation T-90AM , it takes care of isolating the ammo from crew ( no loose ammo in crew compartment ) , underfloor autoloader and rear turret bustle autoloader which can fire newer longer rounds , newer composite armour plus Kaktus ERA ,newer 125 mm 2A82 smoothbore main gun , more powerful 1130 hp engine , CITS and APU.

IMO It would be good if we could upgrade the current T-90S Bishma to AM standards while for Indian FMBT its better to go alone since we need a lighter FMBT in 40 T class.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 06 May 2011 13:12

Rahul M wrote:this was posted ?

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6333/final1fj0.jpg

Nice! Do you know the original source of this 3D render? I mean like the artist's account on deviantart or some other site? I am asking because it would be interesting to check out his other Indian Military related work.

nits · Post by **nits** » 06 May 2011 13:39

chackojoseph wrote:Srinagar-Leh national highway broadened for T-72 tank movement

T-72 Width is 3.59 m (11 ft 9 in); i hope they have broadened enoufgh so that our other Tanks T-90 - 3.78 m (12 ft 5 in) and Arjun - 3.864 metres (12 ft 8.1 in) also can travel with ease...

sawant · Post by **sawant** » 06 May 2011 17:49

I hope they review all the border roads to ensure all our tanks including Arjun can go through... else every 10 years there will be more digging and shovelling... and I hope they try to broaden the tunnels/bridges as well... else it may jam the whole route...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 May 2011 12:49

The Next Generation of Battlefield Management Systems: "Fast Road"

New battlefield management system developed by Elbit allows for tanks to be updated on changing battlefield situations within seconds

The "Fast Road" system is the next generation of technology for battlefield management systems in tanks. The system, developed by Elbit, has begun to be integrated into some of the IDF's regular armored divisions.

The technological leap represented by the "Fast Road" system is in the speed that it can transfer data and messages, within seconds or less. In each tank connected to the system, an array of data related to what is occurring on the battlefield appears on monitors.

New data appears on the screens within seconds of being received by the system. The device itself is small, taking up little space in the tank.

"There is no doubt that the device improves operational effectiveness and allows for immediate communication without delays," said Lt. Col. Avi Uriel.

The "Fast Road" system also allows for data to be entered in higher volumes and more frequently.

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 07 May 2011 17:15

Arjun Mk-2 will be 90% Indigenous

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 07 May 2011 21:35

Gaur, I found it in MP.net

p.s if you are up to it we can think about making models for popular games and putting them in as small mods. take it to your modeling thread if you are interested.

srai · Post by **srai** » 08 May 2011 01:44

karan_mc wrote:Arjun Mk-2 will be 90% Indigenous

Grammar is horrendous! ...

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 08 May 2011 07:54

Pranav wrote:Israel's Trophy tank defense system:

"Trophy is design[ed] to form a 'beam' of fragments, which will intercept any incoming HEAT threat, including RPG rockets at a range of 10 – 30 meters from the protected platform."

An alternative/competitor to the U.S. designed Raytheon’s Quick Kill.

http://militaryanalysis.blogspot.com/20 ... eaker.html
See also:

http://www.israelsituation.com/2011/03/ ... ves-lives/

http://quitenormal.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... errorists/

Seems to be an important new development.

It appears that this system involves a shooting out a broad beam or a cloud of pellets into the flight path of the incoming missile. Such "shotguns" would be mounted at various angles to cover the armoured vehicle. One wonders whether it would be capable of stopping a fast missile like the A2G Brimstone.

This principle would also apply to defending ships against anti-ship missiles.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 08 May 2011 19:14

Rahul M wrote:Gaur, I found it in MP.net

p.s if you are up to it we can think about making models for popular games and putting them in as small mods. take it to your modeling thread if you are interested.

Thanks for the offer. Considering that I am a pc gamer myself, I find the prospect of contributing to modding community very exciting. However, due to lack of time and abundance of laziness, I have not been able to complete even my previously hanging projects (like FGFA). Considering that I have not been able to touch 3ds Max for many months now, committing to any modelling effort will only result in partial completion at best.

Anyway, thanks again for offer.

Anuj A · Post by **Anuj A** » 11 May 2011 14:54

I know this has been discussed before, but what is the latest on the Mahindra Axe's induction into the IA? will it be anytime soon? As the trails seem to have been completed a while ago. Why no news at all?

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 12 May 2011 12:18

India Gears Up To Meet Armored Vehicle Demand
Aviation Week

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 12 May 2011 12:20

Jai Mata di

Advanced Tank For India Ready For Testing

Aviation Week

Advanced Tank For India Ready For Testing
May 11, 2011
By Jay Menon
New Delhi

User trials for India’s future main battle tank, the Arjun Mk. II Phase I, will begin in June, and the first batch of the advanced variant should be ready by 2014.

Two regiments of the Arjun Mk. I are already deployed in India’s western sector of Rajasthan by the army, and a further order for 124 tanks has been placed with the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO).

“DRDO has already begun work on the improvements required for the Mk. II tanks, and about 20 improvements have already been completed,” a defense ministry official says. The two-phase project was cleared in 2010.

“After completing technical trials, the army will validate the major improvements carried out in the Phase I and II plans. This is scheduled during June 2011 and July 2012,” the official says.

The indigenously developed weapon system will undergo 93 upgrades in two phases, including the advanced air defense gun system for firing at attack helicopters. The tank also will be equipped with explosive-reactive armor to protect it from enemy missiles and rockets.

The tank is likely to benefit from new laser warning suites and missile-firing capabilities, which are much advanced over existing systems. It also will have an automatic target-tracking system to add accuracy when firing on a moving target.

Besides the 124 Arjun Mk. I tanks, the Indian army has signaled its intention to acquire another 124 Mk. IIs.

According to the official, 45 tanks will be ready in the Phase I period, and the remaining 79 will roll out during Phase II. “The first batch of Arjun Mk. II Phase I tanks are expected to be ready during 2013-14,” he says.

The official says the army’s Arjun Mk. I tanks were manufactured by Heavy Vehicles Factory.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 12 May 2011 12:41

^^ I seriously think India needs to construct another HVF. The country doesn't lack technology now, and if placed in an area that lacks employment, it can create huge rewards for the local populace, plus production can atleast be doubled. Country wins, Army wins.

I am extremely happy to see that the Arjun Mk II is ready for testing. Congrats to the Scientists, Engineers, Technicians and Labourers.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 May 2011 13:37

Gurinder P wrote: I am extremely happy to see that the Arjun Mk II is ready for testing. Congrats to the Scientists, Engineers, Technicians and Labourers.

And Indian Army, for testing, nurturing and sticking with Arjun through thick and thin and providing it a cradle to grow up in without diluting the standards.

A proud moment for ALL stakeholders.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 May 2011 13:46

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 May 2011 13:54

just like OBL being caught is a proud moment for ISI.

sombhat · Post by **sombhat** » 12 May 2011 14:20

Do you think 2013-14 would be enough for development trials, user trials, validation trials, comparative trials, brak the suspension trials, leak the engine trial, hit the target trial, float on water trial, float in the air trial, ride on the railway wagon trial, cross the bridge trial, AUCUR trial, ABCDFEGH trial, LKJHMNOP trial etc. I think 2052 would be a more appropriate date.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 12 May 2011 14:48

Rahul M wrote:just like OBL being caught is a proud moment for ISI.

I don't know if I should chuckle or raise and eyebrow. First time my emotions are confused.

sombhat wrote:Do you think 2013-14 would be enough for development trials, user trials, validation trials, comparative trials, brak the suspension trials, leak the engine trial, hit the target trial, float on water trial, float in the air trial, ride on the railway wagon trial, cross the bridge trial, AUCUR trial, ABCDFEGH trial, LKJHMNOP trial etc. I think 2052 would be a more appropriate date.

Calm down buddy, the trails will go much faster now, since the IA wants another batch and the MK1 being extremely impressive should hold the MKII to more gentler lighting.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 12 May 2011 14:52

Would anyone hazard a speculation for the follow on orders of MkII?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 May 2011 14:57

P Chitkara wrote:Would anyone hazard a speculation for the follow on orders of MkII?

At least 50*5 = 250+(8) Mk IIs.

50 = number of tanks a year at Avadi (best case)

5 = plan cycle year length.

8 = magical round off number.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 May 2011 14:59

Gurinder P wrote: Calm down buddy, the trails will go much faster now, since the IA wants another batch and the MK1 being extremely impressive should hold the MKII to more gentler lighting.

That is correct, I would be very surprised if Mk II fails any of the already passed test by Mk I. So the iterative cycle should be much much faster. Since very few faults are expected to be found now.

But yes, lets keep the fingers crossed and pray for the best.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 May 2011 15:05

That is correct, I would be very surprised if Mk II fails any of the already passed test by Mk I. So the iterative cycle should be much much faster. Since very few faults are expected to be found now.

Knowing the IA and its most recent treatment of the NAMICA ( last minute requirement of god knows what all AFTER user trials were done), wont be surprised if the Mk2 is sent back for further refinement citing lack of 155 mm barrel or skids to help ski's on ice etc...

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 12 May 2011 15:12

sum wrote: Knowing the IA and its most recent treatment of the NAMICA ( last minute requirement of god knows what all AFTER user trials were done), wont be surprised if the Mk2 is sent back for further refinement citing lack of 155 mm barrel or skids to help ski's on ice etc...

I missed this, can you please share the link to the story once again? Txs in advance.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 12 May 2011 15:14

sum wrote:
That is correct, I would be very surprised if Mk II fails any of the already passed test by Mk I. So the iterative cycle should be much much faster. Since very few faults are expected to be found now.
Knowing the IA and its most recent treatment of the NAMICA ( last minute requirement of god knows what all AFTER user trials were done), wont be surprised if the Mk2 is sent back for further refinement citing lack of 155 mm barrel or skids to help ski's on ice etc...

LMAO, in that case, DRDO will send out a tank with studded tracks, Nag missiles bristling out of the top of the turret, a 155mm barrel from a stripped down bofors platform, secondary cannon that shoots out napalm, a 75mm naval cannon for anti air, and numerous heavy duty W16 engines to drive it. Oh and for transportation, it can morph into a tata nano and drive off to be deployed. Transformers! ISI's gonna die.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 May 2011 15:16

I missed this, can you please share the link to the story once again? Txs in advance.

Nag induction likely to be delayed

The induction of third generation anti-tank Nag missile is likely to be delayed by more than a year with the Army seeking improvements to the specially-made missile carrier, Namica.

After the completion of the missile's “final validation trials” in the Chandan Air Force ranges in Rajasthan in July last, it was anticipated that it would be inducted into the Army this year. During the trials, the missile proved its capability against both moving and stationary targets, covering varying ranges of 500 meters to 2,600 metres.

The Namica too established its “channel-crossing ability” and manoeuvred across the Indira Gandhi Canal at Nachna in Rajasthan during flotation trials time. Each carrier can carry 12 missiles with eight of them in ready-to-fire mode.

Having a maximum range of four km, the Nag is equipped with the highly potent HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) warhead.

With the Army seeking additional features such as providing a “panoramic sight” for two commanders, against the present system of having only one such facility for the ‘gunner,' the Namica is being totally redesigned. { This brainwave came up AFTER user trials}

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 12 May 2011 15:18

Any news on how the army finds Arjun now that it is in the field. Would like to hear something about the operational experience of the army with them.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 May 2011 15:32

Arjun Mk2 does not look like a radical upgrade but more like enhancement that is already known to work well with Mk1 , I think those 90 odd upgrade would also take care of some of the known issue with Mk1 that they might have come across , hence the likely hood of getting delayed is low or say from engineering POV the risk is minimal.

I think most of the key upgrade will focus on the Turret like CITS ,Missile Firing capability ,ERA , Hard Kill system etc.

Considering it would be getting 2 T heavier after the upgrade , most likely this is due to ERA it might increase the ground pressure and reduce hp/ton for the tank.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 May 2011 15:36

Considering it would be getting 2 T heavier after the upgrade , most likely this is due to ERA it might increase the ground pressure and reduce hp/ton for the tank.

Ah, well...why do i feel that this very reason will be seen more frequently in coming days in IA press reports?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 May 2011 15:43

sum wrote:
Considering it would be getting 2 T heavier after the upgrade , most likely this is due to ERA it might increase the ground pressure and reduce hp/ton for the tank.
Ah, well...why do i feel that this very reason will be seen more frequently in coming days in IA press reports?

Well the other option is to go for a more powerful engine that would be much risker option , its a trade off if they want ERA they will get heavier.