Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Mar. 29, 2011

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 07 May 2011 01:57

Mansoor Ijiaz is on Fox. He says, the civilian power in Pakistan is most likely clueless but the Army (Kiyani) and ISI are behind hiding OBL and they are helping Al Zawhiri and Mullah Ummar and Kiyani right there in Rawalpindi.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 May 2011 02:02

He(MI) is another terrorist supporter. Wonder why he thinks he can make a comeback?

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 07 May 2011 02:04

Brad Goodman wrote:
Dipanker wrote:^^ Perhaps a good reply would be that India is a Hindu country in the same sense as US is a Christian country or France is a Catholic country. That should put things in perspective for them.
Am I missing something here? What is wrong in being called a Hindu country. I for one would be proud if India would truely become a Hindu country

I did not say anything like that, you are jumping to the wrong conclusion. Anyway OT here.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 07 May 2011 02:16

The Friday Times Nuggets

Fauzia Wahab, leave the country!
Reported in Jinnah a number of politicians took serious offence at ex-information secretary of PPP Fauzia Wahab when she said that Americans were right in thinking that Pakistanis would sell their mothers for dollars. They said she should be expelled from the party and made to leave the country and live with Americans.

Get peace from me in three months!
Famous cricketer and chief of Tehreek Insaf Imran Khan told daily Jinnah that he would deliver peace to Pakistan within three months if brought to power. He said Ehtesab Bureau should be run by Asghar Khan. He said Nawaz Sharif had reduced doctors to being manual labourers

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 07 May 2011 02:29

No doubt after artificial insemination by the ISI, Imranji Jihadi Khan Niazi will deliver in three months.

On the flip side all his enemies need to bring him down is to remind the unwashed awaam that his children are half joo-ish

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 07 May 2011 02:34

Khaled Ahmed provides some insight into piskology, posting in full.

A civilisation of narcissists

Muslims seem to be blind to non-Muslim emotions; they are civilisationally inward-looking, but only go into denial when taxed with blame from the outside. If Muslims kill non-Muslims, they seem strangely unconcerned; when Muslims kill Muslims, as in Sudan, they turn their eyes away. It is only when non-Muslims kill Muslims, that they wake up and start complaining and pointing to their general state of victimhood. In his book Tehzeebi Nargisiyat (Sanjh Publications Lahore, 2009), Mobarak Haider goes into the minutiae of collective Muslim narcissism and examines all their overt and hidden postures, and comes up with a key to the understanding of the Muslim mind.
Haider says if you think Muslim isolationism and pride are of recent date, you are mistaken; Muslims have always been like that. It is their understanding of Islam that permits extreme posturing, while at the same time giving them the rhetoric of peace that no one takes seriously. If a Muslim terrorist kills another Muslim, the unthinking verdict is that the killer couldn’t be a Muslim or he wouldn’t have done it. Yet the bitter truth is that despite all their aggressive strutting, Muslims are busy killing Muslims all over the world. When they travel abroad and are treated with fear and loathing at international airports, they pocket their narcissism and suffer in silence. Strangely, pride doesn’t recommend refusal to migrate.
Author Haider bases this narcissism on the way Muslims absorb the following tenets of their faith: 1) Islam is a complete code of life and offers solutions to all problems; 2) Every edict of Islam is eternal and applicable to all times; 3) Islam is the only truth and any other competing truth must mould itself according to Islam or be ready to be suppressed; 4) Muslims are under obligation to make Islam the supreme religion of the world as other religions are jahiliyya; 5) Muslims are the foremost nation in the world and the only one that will be allowed into Heaven; 6) Action taken to subjugate other civilisations is jihad and not terrorism.
There are other ‘collective’ illusions contained in the edicts that follow: 7) Violence is interpreted as jihad, but then jihad is supposed to be the personal obligation of Muslims and not the state; Any deviation from the prevailing dogma is non-belief or kufr; in more mitigating conditions, it is at least heresy; 9) The best knowledge is knowledge of religion and the ulema are the best among men, which means that no one can think about religion on his own; 10) No one can become a scholar of Islam except by accepting the dogma and obeying the edicts of tradition.
The Taliban are the climax of the journey of blind dismissal of the world outside the Muslim self. The idea is to rule the world not through acquisition of knowledge but through the use of the sword. The Taliban are the symbol of Pakistan’s recession into the self in the face of modern challenges. The biggest self-destructive vice that springs from this is uniformity of thinking or yaksaniyat (p.62).
Pakistan in its official and unofficial mythology claims that superpower Russia was defeated by the Taliban; and superpower America, too, will now be defeated by the Taliban, a glory in which Muslims of the world will indirectly participate. Corrupt politicians returning from the fleshpots of Europe, where they have just spent a part of the wealth gouged from Pakistan, complain that the West has lost its spiritual values and is now looking beseechingly at the Muslims as an agency of the revival of the western soul.
Published in The Express Tribune, March 27th, 2011.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 07 May 2011 02:34

ramana wrote:He(MI) is another terrorist supporter. Wonder why he thinks he can make a comeback?

When he came on Fox, I thought he would be defending the Porki Army/ISI. Instead I was caught off guard.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 07 May 2011 04:03

"The plaintiffs have accused Pakistani persons and officials of providing material support for Mumbai attacks.

Hafiz Saeed pleaded that he was a citizen of Pakistan enjoying all the rights like any other individual, therefore, the government should defend him in the same manner as it was doing in case of (former and present) ISI heads and other officials."

http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/06/mumbai-a ... party.html

Hafiz probably has a son/daughter studying in the Chicago area...

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 07 May 2011 04:19

Rasmussen Poll FWIW

84% of American Adults think it’s at least somewhat likely that high-level officials in the Pakistani government knew where bin Laden was hiding.

Only nine percent (9%) believe it’s not likely that Pakistan knew.

Only five percent (5%) of adults now regard the country as an ally of the United States. Now the majority (61%) rate it as somewhere in between an ally and an enemy.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 07 May 2011 04:58

^^^Thanks Anujanji.. the above is being sent to an US Senator, with whom I had some "interesting" conversion a few years ago.. would be nice to say "I told you so" (Believe it or not, he was told that OBL is staying in a mansion near Mush

)

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 May 2011 05:08

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washing ... pound.html
You're not alone: Most Americans believe Pakistan was double-dealing on Osama bin Laden refuge
( Whole Duniya me Chhor hai, Pakistan 2 timing whore hai)

On his continuing victory lap, President Obama met secretly with the entire assault team today at Fort Campbell, Ky. to thank them and award the special ops group the Presidential Unit Citation."We have cut off their head," declared a buoyant Obama, who says he is not releasing the terrorist leader's death photo because he doesn't want to appear to the world to be celebrating the man's death.Obama spoke to an exuberant rally of some 2,300 other American troops.Only 9% of the 1,000 adults surveyed say it's unlikely Pakistani leaders knew nothing. Even fewer (5%) view Pakistan as an ally in the war on terror, one-third of last summer's total.More than one-in-four (26%) view Pakistan as an enemy while 61% see the nuclear-armed country as a frenemy, somewhere in between .Seventyu-two percent thinks it's fine we attacked an alleged ally without consultation and only 8% think Obama should have sought Islamabad's permission

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 May 2011 05:13

http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernande ... -bargains/
Lemons and Hard Bargains

McClatchy Newspapers says the State Department provided a certification that Pakistan was assisting with the campaign against terrorism only two days before it found Osama Bin Laden in the heart of that country.Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who signed the March 18 certification, acknowledged Thursday that the U.S.-Pakistan alliance was on shaky ground but signaled no change in the administration’s policy toward the country.“It is not always an easy relationship. You know that,” Clinton said in Rome. “But on the other hand, it is a productive one for both our countries and we are going to continue to cooperate between our governments, our militaries, our law-enforcement agencies, but most importantly, between the American and Pakistani people.”
Pakistan is a busy place. The target area, “Datta Khel is a known hub of Taliban, Haqqani Network, and al Qaeda activity. While Bahadar administers the region, the Haqqani Network, al Qaeda, and allied Central Asian jihadi groups are also based in the area. The Lashkar al Zil, al Qaeda’s Shadow Army, is known to have a command center in Datta Khel.” It is no secret that parts of Pakistan are to all intents and purposes, the enemy. Admiral Mike Mullen put it this way. “The ISI has a long-standing relationship with the Haqqani network. That doesn’t mean everybody in the ISI. But it’s there. Haqqani is supporting, funding, training fighters that are killing Americans and killing coalition partners. And I have a sacred obligation to do all I can to make sure that doesn’t happen.”Well a lot more could happen. The Times of India quotes Wikileaks as saying that as recently as 2009, “Pakistan’s powerful army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani does not support President Asif Ali Zardari’s ‘no-first-use’ nuclear policy”. In that view, Pakistan reserves the rights to strike first, possibly against India.“Although he has remained silent on the subject, Kayani does not support Zardari’s statement last year to the Indian press that Pakistan would adopt a ‘no first use’ policy on nuclear weapons.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 07 May 2011 06:47

The liar Hamid Gul on CNN show with Eliot Spitzer calling Ombaba a liar. lol.

This should be shown to as many amreekhans as possible the redder they are the better.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 May 2011 06:52

Dipanker wrote:Khaled Ahmed provides some insight into piskology, posting in full.

A civilisation of narcissists

Thanks for posting. I have archived it for reference.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 May 2011 07:19

“Engagement with Pakistan a very rational decision”: Nirupama Rao

http://www.hindu.com/2011/05/07/stories ... 581600.htm

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 May 2011 07:36

Anujan wrote:Rasmussen Poll FWIW

84% of American Adults think it’s at least somewhat likely that high-level officials in the Pakistani government knew where bin Laden was hiding.

Only nine percent (9%) believe it’s not likely that Pakistan knew.

Only five percent (5%) of adults now regard the country as an ally of the United States. Now the majority (61%) rate it as somewhere in between an ally and an enemy.

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

To go along with American views a You Gov survey report on the views about the Islamic Terrorist Osama Bin Laden in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

The very high percentage of citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan who see an Islamic Terrorist like Osama Bin Laden as a leadership figure is disturbing and underlines the high level of public support for Islamic Terrorism in that country.

What makes the survey result even more disturbing is that given this was an online survey, this view is not of poor and ignorant madrassah brainwashed types eking out a living but rather of view of the literate and more affluent sections of Pakistani society who have the wherewithal to go online:

Pakistan Poll: 66% say US forces didn't kill bin Laden

saip · Post by **saip** » 07 May 2011 08:14

Hamid Gul is 75 years old and senile. I am surprised people still believe all his conspiracy theories!

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 07 May 2011 08:17

Manny wrote:
ramana wrote:He(MI) is another terrorist supporter. Wonder why he thinks he can make a comeback?
When he came on Fox, I thought he would be defending the Porki Army/ISI. Instead I was caught off guard.

That is typical RAPE. You will be more amazed at some of the mechanisms of similar tribe.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 07 May 2011 08:30

Raat Dhal Chuki - by the time I get up this thread will reach jannat for 72 virgins.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 May 2011 08:31

Prem wrote:http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernande ... -bargains/
Lemons and Hard Bargains
McClatchy Newspapers says the State Department provided a certification that Pakistan was assisting with the campaign against terrorism only two days before it found Osama Bin Laden in the heart of that country.Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who signed the March 18 certification, acknowledged Thursday that the U.S.-Pakistan alliance was on shaky ground but signaled no change in the administration’s policy toward the country.

This is very similar to another type of certification that the US President was giving for several years that the Pakistanis did not possess a nuclear weapon. Such certifications are a facade.

Bhaskar · Post by **Bhaskar** » 07 May 2011 09:05

abhishek_sharma wrote:“Engagement with Pakistan a very rational decision”: Nirupama Rao

http://www.hindu.com/2011/05/07/stories ... 581600.htm

At any point has she or anyone in the government considered on what the people want? I don't want to be friends with the killers of my brothers and sisters. Just saying.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 May 2011 09:09

Bhaskar wrote: At any point has she or anyone in the government considered on what the people want? .

Which people? India is full of liberals, lefties and WKK pappi jhappi types.

Oh yes a few people may not want this. But even among them many don't want war and will be willing to compromise. If the vast majority in India really wanted action and were wiling to stand up and be counted - we would see action. That does not seem to be happening as far as I can see.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 May 2011 09:16

Pakistan: "The Taliban's Godfather"?

Documents Detail Years of Pakistani Support for Taliban, Extremists: Covert Policy Linked Taliban, Kashmiri Militants, Pakistan's Pashtun Troops

Highlights

August 1996: Pakistan Intelligence (ISID) "provides at least $30,000 - and possibly as much as $60,000 - per month" to the militant Kashmiri group Harakat ul-Ansar (HUA). Despite this aid, the group is reaching out to sponsors of international terrorism including Osama bin Laden for additional support, and may in the near future become a threat to Islamabad itself as well as U.S. interests. HUA contacts have hinted they "might undertake terrorist actions against civilian airliners." [Doc 10]

October 1996: A Canadian intelligence document released by the National Security Agency and originally classified Top Secret SI, Umbra comments on recent Taliban military successes noting that even Pakistan "must harbour some concern" regarding the Taliban's impressive capture of Kabul, as such victory may diminish Pakistan's influence over the movement and produce a Taliban regime in Kabul with strong links to Pakistan's own Pashtuns. [Doc 14]

October 1996: Although food supplies from Pakistan to the Taliban are conducted openly through Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISID, "the munitions convoys depart Pakistan late in the evening hours and are concealed to reveal their true contents." [Doc 15]

November 1996: Pakistan's Pashtun-based "Frontier Corps elements are utilized in command and control; training; and when necessary - combat" alongside the Taliban in Afghanistan. [Doc 17]

March 1998: Al-Qaeda and Pakistan government-funded Harakat ul-Ansar (HUA) have been sharing terrorist training camps in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan for years [Link Doc 16], and HUA has increasingly been moving ideologically closer to al-Qaeda. The U.S. Embassy in Islamabad is growing increasingly concerned as Fazlur Rahman Khalil, a leader in Pakistan's Harakat ul-Ansar has signed Osama bin Laden's most recent fatwa promoting terrorist activities against U.S. interests. [Doc 26]

September 1998 [Doc 31] and March 1999 [Doc 33]: The U.S. Department of State voices concern that Pakistan is not doing all it can to pressure the Taliban to surrender Osama bin Laden. "Pakistan has not been responsive to our requests that it use its full influence on the Taliban surrender of Bin Ladin." [Doc 33]

September 2000: A cable cited in The 9/11 Commission Report notes that Pakistan's aid to the Taliban has reached "unprecedented" levels, including recent reports that Islamabad has possibly allowed the Taliban to use territory in Pakistan for military operations. Furthermore the U.S. has "seen reports that Pakistan is providing the Taliban with materiel, fuel, funding, technical assistance and military advisors." [Doc 34]

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 May 2011 09:32

The Taliban File Part III

This cable reports former U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan Robert Oakley's visit to Pakistan for non-official meetings with Pakistanis. While there, Oakley reviewed the situation in Afghanistan, including the possible long-term dangers that Taliban military success could create. His interlocutors discuss the possibility of a "Pushtoon nationalist/Islamic radical blowback," concern over the presence of Harkut ul-Ansar (HUA) camps and fighters inside Afghanistan with the approval of the Taliban and UBL, and Pakistani leverage over the Taliban. According to the source, Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) has not only advocated that Pakistan recognize the Taliban as Afghanistan's government, but also indicates that the ISI has warded off Pak Foreign Ministry "attempts to close certain Madrassas (religious schools) in the tribal agencies and near the Afghan border, which have been the spawning grounds for Taliban hard-liners."

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 May 2011 09:44

Volume VII: The Taliban File

In a significant closing, Talbott "drew an analogy between Pakistani support for the Taliban in Afghanistan and the militants in Indian controlled Kashmir. While such support was undertaken to serve Pakistani interests, there were unintended consequences contrary to Pakistan's and the region's larger interests. Ultimately such groups could not be controlled and indulged in actions such as the kidnapping of foreigners in Kashmir."

So he understands using the militants for serving Pakistan's interests. His only problem is that these groups start attacking the western countries.

Also almost nothing is visible in Document 32 (the meeting after Parliament attacks). The discussion must be "very strategic".

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 07 May 2011 10:23

Gotta agree, totally.

Don’t believe Pakistan’s excuses
By JOEL BRINKLEY

In Washington, Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States, claimed that his government simply hadn’t known that bin Laden lived just 35 miles from his country’s capital.

“If the Pakistani government had known that Osama bin Laden was there, we would have got him,” he said on CNN. “We did not know, we had no knowledge. And if we had knowledge, we would have acted on it long ago.”

Don’t believe a word of it.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/05/06/28 ... cuses.html

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 May 2011 10:38

abhishek_sharma wrote:

Also almost nothing is visible in Document 32 (the meeting after Parliament attacks). The discussion must be "very strategic".

Maybe Indian govt response and Ops Parakram created a new dynamism which they had not created a scenario. It was total out of their outcome matrix and the effect of it on Pakistan and coming years.

May be too detailed and cannot be declassified at all

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 May 2011 10:53

Let Kayani reach out to us - Kanwal Sibal

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 07 May 2011 11:17

Mansoor Ijaz, if nothing else, is an opportunist par excellence. His main priority appears to be self-aggrandizement through whatever means possible, and if that means intertwining with the US admin du jour, he will do it, if that means swinging dix with the ISI, he will do it,and if that means facilitating backstage negotiations, he will do that too. Apparently he has some inflated self-image about himself as a sort of modern Islamist hero riding in on a charger to settle the equation in diplomatic battles of Badr.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 07 May 2011 12:04

JE Menon wrote:Guys, read that article by Aatish Taseer. It is an extremely powerful one, and so well phrased that I wouldn't change a single word. It will have a massive impact on the minds of Westerners, especially the type of people who read FT - and even more on those who care to read deeper into his background.

Coincidentally i just finished reading Aatish Taseer's 'Stranger to history'. It's a travelogue of his journey in Turkey,Syria,Saudi,Iran and Pakistan. He went on the journey to understand Islam piskology to put in BRFspeak. It's a superb read, he's very perceptive and it's refreshing to see an honest observation of Islam from an Indian point of view. He readily acknowledges the warm hospitality accorded to him in all these places but that doesn't stop him from pointing out the bigotry and sectarianism in the host societies. He's particularly scathing on his father's family (mostly on Salman Taseer himself) and Pakistan in general. His conversations with Salman Taseer easily shreds any misconception that ST is a liberal. He also avoids doing an equal-equal with India for the most part, infact pointing out how the issue of friction with the immigrant population (Mohajirs in Pak) didn't exist in India. He also correctly acknowledges the importance of feudalism in Pakistan. His half-Pakistani parentage notwithstanding, his maternal family is also from Pakistan so he obviously has an affinity for the Punjabi culture etc but to his credit doesn't let it come in way of his assessment of where Pakistan as a country has come to. Just a small nugget from the book: He says he hardly saw a few people with the prayer callous on the forehead in Syria,Iran etc but apparently every other person sported it in Pakistan. Highly recommended read.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 07 May 2011 12:14

^^^ Could you please give a review for the book in the Books review thread? Or is it already there? TIA.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 07 May 2011 12:33

Who is this M K Bhadrakumar, Fmr Deputy High Commissioner to Pakistan???

Puke Alert: Sorry if posted earlier...

http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4372408.cms

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 07 May 2011 12:44

Klaus wrote:^^^ Could you please give a review for the book in the Books review thread? Or is it already there? TIA.

I'm posting a detailed review there in a while. Thought i'd post a short one here for now

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 07 May 2011 13:00

ramana wrote:He(MI) is another terrorist supporter. Wonder why he thinks he can make a comeback?

Memories are short. He is smoother and more sincere-sounding than the aam RAPE. one needs to be knowledgeable and alert to spot the terrorist sapota in his writings.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 07 May 2011 13:02

Sri wrote:Who is this M K Bhadrakumar, Fmr Deputy High Commissioner to Pakistan???

Puke Alert: Sorry if posted earlier...

http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4372408.cms

For the porkis to say 26/11 is an outdated issue with such a bravado makes you wonder if MMS has made some backdoor (no pun intended) arrangement where Indians are to forget that some thing like that really happened ??

How insensitive is that of the public opinion in India from their own "elected" representative !

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 07 May 2011 13:04

Rajdeep wrote:The liar Hamid Gul on CNN show with Eliot Spitzer calling Ombaba a liar. lol.

This should be shown to as many amreekhans as possible the redder they are the better.

Yes I hope the TFTA pakilurks will spare no effort to put the khans in their place, tell them where they get off.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 07 May 2011 13:30

JE Menon wrote:Mansoor Ijaz, if nothing else, is an opportunist par excellence. His main priority appears to be self-aggrandizement through whatever means possible, and if that means intertwining with the US admin du jour, he will do it, if that means swinging dix with the ISI, he will do it,and if that means facilitating backstage negotiations, he will do that too. Apparently he has some inflated self-image about himself as a sort of modern Islamist hero riding in on a charger to settle the equation in diplomatic battles of Badr.

Mansoor Ijaz has for a couple of decades tried to establish himself as the power broker in chief between America and the Muslim world.

However he is a bit like the Bhuttos, whom he used to be close to - Pakistani to the hilt, but generally suspicious of the PA and ISI.

It is that willingness to say things about the PA and ISI that makes him (like the Bhuttos, or even Husain Haqqani before he was Ambassador) sound different from other Pakistanis.

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 07 May 2011 14:16

not sure if posted earlier
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/159 ... a-pok.html

What did we do to convince UAE?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 07 May 2011 14:20

Speaking of Mansoor Ijaz, some of you may want to go through this if you have the patience

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... menon.html

He has not yet outlived to utility to some quarters. Probably never will.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2011 14:48

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/a ... ince_raid/

Droneacharya claims the lives of 15 more pakis.
---

Missiles pounded the town of Datta Khel, near what US officials believe is the headquarters of the Haqqani network, an Afghan insurgent force that has staged deadly bombings in Afghan cities and regularly attacks NATO troops in eastern Afghanistan.

The Associated Press, quoting Pakistani intelligence officials, said the strike targeted a vehicle suspected of carrying foreign militants and damaged a nearby restaurant and home.