Indian Army: News & Discussion

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 25 Apr 2011 20:51

^^^Ensuring that the CMP or some sub-unit becomes an independent investigating agency on the lines for Vigilance and remains apolitical will be biggest challenge. Nothing stops from such unit becoming the CBI of top-brass to settle score.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 25 Apr 2011 20:55

Sachin,
Don't know about now, but back in 70s and 80s the CMP used to provide the "muscle" for DMI staff. Sometimes jobs would come up where using even toughened NCOs from infantry units (usual source for such work) was a morale/political liability, that's when the MPs were brought in.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Apr 2011 15:49

From Orbat.com:

Pakistan's reaction to Indian Cold Start doctrine

Mandeep Singh Bajwa and Ravi Rikhye

Pakistani concern over India's Cold Start doctrine has begun to border on panic. The doctrine requires that instead of the usual minimum 10-day mobilization time, the Indian Army should be able to launch at least 8 brigade+ thrusts into Pakistan with zero warning. The objective is not just to grab territory before the Pakistan Army can react, it is also 9intended to get inside Pakistan's nuclear decision-making cycle. India will declare a ceasefire very soon after an offensive begins, rendering the threat of Pakistan nuclear weapons moot. Also, Pakistan will have to dorect these weapons against its own territory, which will obviously limit its options.

While the testing of the 60-km Haft 9 battlefield missile, allegedly carrying a sub-kiloton warhead, has received attention and been touted as Pakistan's answer to Cold Start, the Indian Army believes this is another example of Pakistan seeking to use psychological tactics to deter India. The Indian Army does not take these threats seriously and has no intention of being inhibited on account of Pakistan's N-arsenal. The Indian position is that the weapons of both sides are unusable for a variety of practical reasons.
Of greater concern to the Indian Army is the conventional warfare revamp Pakistan is undertaking with the intention of slowing down Cold Start thrusts. Pakistan is particularly concerned with its perceived vulnerabilities in the Chenab-Ravi corridor which is covered by two reinforced divisions of its XXX Corps. The concern began when India split its XVI Corps into two, with a new HQ IX Corps dedicated specifically to offensive operations in this corridor. Pakistan's worry is that a breakthrough here will (a) permit Indian forces to hook around Pakistan's West Kashmir defenses, forcing a general withdrawal from Kashmir, or (b) a pincer operation by Indian IX and XI Corps will pinch out the salient forward of the line Lahore-Sialkot.

Accordingly, Pakistan is boosting its corps reserves both for its XXX Corps and the Lahore-based IV Corps. It has already boosted reserves south of Lahore down to the Rann of Kutch. Pakistan plans also to raise two new divisions for an Army Reserve Center, thus providing it three strike corps to match against India's three. That requirement was changed to six divisions: one each for the four plains holding corps and two for a new strike corps.

The difficulty Pakistan is facing is a serious shortfall of resources. After the 1999 Kargil War Pakistan identified a need for five more
divisions to stop an Indian counter-offensive in the plains in response to a Pakistani attack on Kashmir. Two of those divisions have been raised (Corps Reserves V and XXXI Corps). But first, the new raisings are largely a rationalization of existing loose brigades. Second, Pakistan is stalled: it has XXX Corps Reserves under raising, again, mainly by a rationalization of existing loose brigades, but has been unable to make headway for the IV Corps Reserves, which will also consist of formerly independent brigade. Meanwhile, there seems no hope of the two armor/mechanized divisions for the new strike corps of coming up any time soon.

Aside from blowing the nuclear trumpet, Pakistan is greatly strengthening its fixed defenses, starting first in the Chenab-Ravi corridor, to be followed by the Ravi-Sutluj corridor. These two corridors have always been the most heavily fortified. It is analyzing a move to shift armor reserves closer to the International Border to better provide against a surprise Indian attack.
On its side, India has been undertaking a massive expansion of capabilities. Its 2011 GDP is seven times Pakistan's, and will keep increasing. So resources are available in plenty. Among India's changes are six enormous programs: (a) increasing the Army's capacity for airmobile operations; (b) an all-out effort to enhance the Air Force's strike capabilities; (c) a complete reequipment of artillery; (d) an infantry upgrade; (e) an enhancement of battlefield missile capabilities together with an expansion of longer range systems and ABM systems; and (f) adoption of a netcentric capability for the Army, complete with a big increase in the number of UAVs.

More important, the Indian Army has most lately decided to seize the initiative on the question of N-weapons. Till now Pakistan has been able to define the issue with few, if any, reactions from India. The Army has now begun saying in messages directed at Pakistan: "If you go on talking about how you're going to counter Cold Start with N-weapons, we may well have to use our N-weapons preemptively against your ground forces, in support of Cold Start."

We can all agree this is psychological posturing. But so is Pakistan's ever-continuing threat to use N-weapons on the battlefield. The difference now is the Indian Army has grasped the uses of psychological warfare. It has decided to continue letting Pakistan define the N-debate is counterproductive, and that India must seize the psychological initiative as much as the initiative in conventional capabilities.

Read it all.....very interesting analysis.

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Apr 2011 21:37

^^ Both countries have equal number of strike corps despite the size being 1/3rd( as per Ravi and Mandeep) ??
So, all of Unkils $$ is going into raising these anti-Indian forces..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Apr 2011 21:44

I believe we have around 15 indep armour brigades ? maybe 9 of these will be reorged into 3 more strike corps as more T90 and arjun gets produced...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Apr 2011 22:22

rohitvats, Can you add some maps to give the Orbat analysis some more visual impact? Text is text but a picture is worth a thousand words.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Apr 2011 22:54

ramana wrote:rohitvats, Can you add some maps to give the Orbat analysis some more visual impact? Text is text but a picture is worth a thousand words.

Yup; this weekend.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Apr 2011 23:02

sum wrote:^^ Both countries have equal number of strike corps despite the size being 1/3rd( as per Ravi and Mandeep) ??
So, all of Unkils $$ is going into raising these anti-Indian forces..

Nope. We have three, they have 2.

As per the article, they plan a third - Army Reserve Center (ARC). They have two - ARN and ARS. I Corps is the center piece of ARN and II Corps of ARS. A third Corps HQ will need to be raised for ARC to become a true-blue Strike Corps.

Or, they can have a Armored Division/Mechanized Division and XI Corps (based in Peshawar) can pick this division when it moves east in case of Indo-Pak shooting match. But this will be a sub-optimal organization - the armored division/mechanized division needs a dedicated running mate (infantry division) and they need to continually train with each other. Also, the higher HQ (Corps HQ) needs to have trained/exercised to effectively deploy such manuever forces.

BTW, our armored divisions are more powerful than PA.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Apr 2011 23:08

Singha wrote:I believe we have around 15 indep armour brigades ? maybe 9 of these will be reorged into 3 more strike corps as more T90 and arjun gets produced...

Nope. We have 7 (iirc - will recheck). And they cannot be grouped to form a strike corps.

Two reasons - one, this will mean denuding Pivot Corps of their armor assets (apart from indp. armored bde. with Strike Corps, all Pivot Corps on western front have indp. armored bde. each). And two, Strike Corps is more than armor - you need infantry and engineers and arty and other support arms.

Here is a wish list - make XII Corps (based in Jodhpur) into Strike Corps. It has a RAPID+indp. armored bde.+indp. mechanized bde. Rationalize the existing armor and mech. assets, raise an armored division. In due course of time, raise another indp. armored bde. and voila, you have a Strike Corps sitting bang on the border (armored division+RAPID+indp. armored bde.+infantry division) and lot of soiled khakhi pants.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Apr 2011 01:33

a map I had created on my blog of the army corps formations. you can see the locations of the units rohit mentions.

http://brfrahulm.blogspot.com/2010/02/g ... o-pak.html

IIRC it was V corps karachi that was being beefed up following CSD ?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 28 Apr 2011 02:53

Pakistan's Strategic Myopia

"Cold Start" is a still-notional Indian military doctrine that would allow for Indian forces to quickly respond with conventional means to a Pakistan-based terrorist attack in India. The plan calls for the quick mobilization of forces and a wide but shallow thrust across the Pakistani border. The idea is to avoid threatening Islamabad and risking escalation; instead, India would ransom the swath of occupied territory for a serious effort by Pakistan to deal with terrorists operating from within its borders.
:
New Delhi is not going to blithely accept a situation where its preferred military response to a terrorist attack is undermined. Since Islamabad seems intent on unleashing its nuclear weapons in response to even a limited Indian retaliatory offensive, India will have to prepare for the possibility of a nuclear exchange. One logical outcome will be for India to devote more generous resources to its future missile defense shield. Another will be for India to deploy its own tactical nuclear weapons. While the Indian Army's 150-kilometer-range Prithvi-I missile is not believed to have a nuclear role at present, it is nuclear-capable and could be tasked to that mission.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 28 Apr 2011 09:03

Rahul M, FCNA it seems is more like oversized division than a Corps.The ID inducted post Kargil seems to have reverted back to parent Corps. AFAIK, it has 4-5 infantry brigades.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 28 Apr 2011 10:51

a very very interesting map.

It shows to me that

i) Pakistan is trying to match IA man for man
ii) Pakistan has not left its
"defence of east pakistan is from west pakistan" type strategies. - the preponderance of army near punjab and all of them stationed as close to the boundary for defence as possible while those defending sindh are all far away from border.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 29 Apr 2011 19:57

I am sure that, by now, most would have added Natgeoindia to their youtube subscription list. For those who have not, here are the newly uploaded episodes of Mission Army:
Episode 6: Army Aviation Corps

Episode 7: Corps of Engineers

Episode 8: Inside Logistics of IA.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 29 Apr 2011 23:30

Antony to visit border areas ahead of army war game

srai · Post by **srai** » 30 Apr 2011 01:21

rohitvats wrote:
ramana wrote:rohitvats, Can you add some maps to give the Orbat analysis some more visual impact? Text is text but a picture is worth a thousand words.
Yup; this weekend.

Wikipedia has a pretty good visual representation of the IA structure:

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 30 Apr 2011 03:04

Papers forged to force Army chief to cut short tenure?

The certificate with a forwarding letter from a Member of Parliament was sent to defence minister A K Antony and circulated among media to muddy the waters over General Singh's age.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 30 Apr 2011 07:54

VinodTK wrote:Papers forged to force Army chief to cut short tenure?
The certificate with a forwarding letter from a Member of Parliament was sent to defence minister A K Antony and circulated among media to muddy the waters over General Singh's age.

excerpt:

Feuds among the Army brass are hardly unknown. But what differentiates the current bout is the lengths travelled by those wishing Gen Singh to retire early. Retired officers have been circulating Gen Singh's alleged birth certificates and select pages from documents, triggering suspicions whether heartburn over his tough actions are in play.

The measures taken by the Army chief on the Sukna and Adarsh scams have left behind a trail of bitterness, even generating a sense of betrayal.

Meanwhile, sources said investigation over the past 24 hours by the Pune police have failed to trace Shaikh. There was no one by the name at the address given by him (house No 28, Salisbury Park, Pune).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Apr 2011 08:01

Rohit , does it mean we have only 7 indep armour brigades?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 30 Apr 2011 08:30

From Twitter:

@smitaprakash http://bit.ly/lqnu8i When old soldiers diss dead soldiers. Gen. Jacob trashes Sam Bahadur. How valiant General Sahab.

@pragmatic_d But General Jacob has been saying this publicly for last 10-12 years. He started that Sam didn't want Dacca but I did it.

@smitaprakash Gen Jacob is hero of the B'desh war. Headed the Eastern Command but as far as I know Manekshaw wanted reassurance that repeat of '65 wont happen. He would have wanted the complete backing of New Delhi before launching all out ops

@pragmatic_d Jacob was Chief of Staff of Eastern Command, Aurora was Eastern Army Commander. On Sam & '71, see this: http://bit.ly/kdlrd9 See, even the then air chief, and the defence secretary were cut up with Sam Manekshaw. They thought he hogged all the credit.

@MandeepBajwa From Gohar Ayub to JFR Jacob the vile attempts to destroy Sam Maneckshaw's reputation continue. Despicable !

Unrelated:

@pragmatic_d Good. CRPF is contracting 434 retired JCOs & 1736 retired NCOs for counter-IED Teams in 62 CRPF Bns deployed for anti-naxal operations.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 May 2011 22:26

Fighting to keep fighting: the bumpy road to army modernisation

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 01 May 2011 22:34

Missing in action

But internally, the 1.13-million strong Indian Army grapples with a new buzzword: transformation. With Army chief General V K Singh leading the charge, the aim is to transform the world's second largest army, with a poor teeth-to-tail ratio, into "an agile, lethal, versatile and net-worked force, which is capability-based to meet future challenges". Gen Singh says the transformation must be 360 degrees and "enhance operational capability through reorganization, restructuring, force development and relocation." Those are big words, but the force is not all talk. The Army has conducted 13 transformation studies. These range from ways to consolidate strike capabilities and "flatten" HQs, to "synergising" all resources and revamping the Corps of Military Police. The results of the studies were pondered by the just-concluded Army commanders' conference in Delhi.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 01 May 2011 22:44

The new recruit: officers & almost gentlemen?

Is the Indian Army becoming more meritocratic? Time was when the Army was considered the exclusive domain of erstwhile royalty and families who prided themselves on a tradition of soldiering. Observers say the changing demographic in the officer ranks indicates the increasingly heterogeneous nature of the world's second-largest army. This is also reflected in the recruitment of jawans, with practically every Indian state contributing a set number determined on the basis of its population and ethnic groups.

Clearly, the Indian Army is becoming more inclusive but some analysts complain its talent pool is shrinking. "When I look around, I see a number of officers who joined the Army as a last resort. They weren't able to get anywhere else, so they came here," says a serving major, who doesn't wish to be named.

srai · Post by **srai** » 01 May 2011 22:53

srai wrote:...
Wikipedia has a pretty good visual representation of the IA structure:

Singha wrote:Rohit , does it mean we have only 7 indep armour brigades?

Going by the above Wikipedia visual map on the IA structure, we have the following:

Code: Select all

Fomation Type                Indep. Brigade                 Division
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Infantry                                                     17
2. Mountain                                                     9
3. RAPID                                                        4
4. Armored                            7                         3
5. Mechanized                         2
6. Artillery                          5
7. Air Defense                        3
8. Engineering                        4

Note: The above maybe dated.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 02 May 2011 01:48

Singha wrote:Rohit , does it mean we have only 7 indep armour brigades?

AFAIK, yes.

IIRC, it is something like this (roman numerals represent the Corps designation): IX*2+X*1+XI*1+XII*1+I*1+II*1

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 May 2011 09:32

From Orbat:

#

India extends ability to move heavy armor to Ladakh India has the equivalent of a mechanized brigade in Ladakh. The T-72s used to be brought in by air transport, with the tanks disassembled. Royal pain in the fundament and all that. At one stage in the 1990s the heavy armor was being withdrawn, if we recall right, because no threat was perceived.
#

Now, in accordance with what Mandeep Bajwa has been telling us, as part of India's new offensive strategy against China, India has widened its Srinager to Leh road at the Zojila Pass so that tank transporters can move armor whenever India needs it, and in the quantities India needs. Further, India is planning a tunnel under the pass. Right now snow blocks the pass in the winter and its very hard to keep the road open. So traffic shuts down for the winter. To cater for emergencies, Army has forward dumped large quantities of supplies in Ladakh, sufficient for4 a year, because it assumes Pakistan will try and cut the road in the event of war with India. India is to raise and induct more troops into Ladakh, the first authorization being an infantry brigade group. This inevitably means better logistics are needed.

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 May 2011 09:33

Another snippet from Orbat:

#

Further Indian China border logistics improvements Richard Thatcher alerts us to a new Indian forward airfield, this time in the state of Uttarakhand. (We always get confused because when the state, consisting of the mountain counties of Utter Pradesh was formed, its name was Uttranchal. or was it the other way around?
#

Minor background on the China border airfields. In the 1960s, after the Sino-India War of 1962, India undertook a vast operation to construct helicopter fields and Advanced Landing Grounds along the border. Most of these fell into disuse as time passed and the threat of another war dimmed. In recent years India has been reactivated, and rebuilding these fields to accommodate heavier aircraft than they were originally designed for. Also, modern landing aids and tactical navigation systems are being added to widen the envelope during which the fields can be used. Also, the Indians seem to be getting out of their old bad habits of relying on blind courage and eternal hope while flying in-and-out of these fields.
#

The Uttarakhand sector has traditionally had a mountain division to the far east of the sector, and a mountain brigade group in the center. A new brigade group is to be raised, so the logistics have to be improved.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 May 2011 10:42

Defence Minister AK Antony visits military facilities at Jaisalmer

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 May 2011 11:07

Ambala based 2 Strike Corps to conduct fortnight long excercise on the Western border

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 03 May 2011 12:03

Army jawan killed, another injured in separate blasts in J&K

Havaldar Sardar Singh of 19 Raj Rifles was repairing a cooler in Arms Maintenance room in army camp in Kharian area when the explosion took place here yesterday, they said.

The jawan died on his way to a hospital, they said, adding that a case has been registered in this regard.

A FLS team today visited the spot and has collected the explosive sample, Station House officer (SHO), Miran Sahib, Suinil Jasrotia said.

"The blast took place due to some explosive material," he said, adding efforts are on to ascertain the nature of the explosive material.

In another incident, a jawan of 182 battalion of BSF, Lance Naik Dev Singh was cleaning weapons and grenades in forward Border Out Post (BOP) Chak Faqira along the Indo-Pak Border in Samba district yesterday, they said.

As he saw that safety pin of one of the grenade has come out, he threw the device away resulting in the blast, they said.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 04 May 2011 16:56

Indian Defence Minister to visit Saudi Arabia and Qatar

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 07 May 2011 01:40

India, France Armies to undertake major exercise

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 07 May 2011 16:47

28th Madras Regiment Battalion takes over as Ceremonial Army Guard Battalion at Rashtrapati Bhavan

arnabh · Post by **arnabh** » 07 May 2011 19:36

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Army-poin ... 94703.aspx

The Indian army has sent a note of caution ahead of India-Pakistan talks this month that Pakistan should be offered no concessions on Siachen glacier as the heavy presence of the Chinese troops in Karokaram has added to already existing dangers there. It has been made clear that "no risks" ca
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n be taken at this stage. The biggest danger, according to the highly placed sources in the army is that there was no guarantee of "Pakistan not repeating what it did in early 1980s when it set its footprints on the glacier".

The Army's apprehensions have widened with the increasing presence of Chinese troops in Karokram. The Chinese are in complete control of Karokram highway that links Pakistan with China. It has been read as a serious situation. Sources said that,the army's Northern Command whose troops guard the 72 sq km glacier at the height ranging from 18,000 to 21,000 feet above sea level , in its latest assessment has pointed to the new factors that have come into play in the neighbhourhood of the glacier.

Apart from insisting that Pakistan acknowledge the Actual ground Position Line, better known as AGPL, and exchange of maps, it has been suggested that Chinese presence in Karokaram highway should also be taken into account while talking of Siachen and its demilitarization. While Pakistan has been refusing the acknowledgment of the AGPL and exchange of maps, it has been insisting on the demilitarization of glacier.

It is believed that Pakistan's insistence that Siachen should be demilitarised is connected with its future plans on Siachen glacier with the active assistance of the Chinese troops. Much before the Northern Command chief Lt. Gen. K T Parnaik voiced his apprehensions that about the presence of the Chinese troops along the Line of Control, the American newspaper New York Times revealed it all.

" It is difficult to reclaim the things by moving out of barracks when ever the contingency may arise," is a line of caution that has been conveyed in the context of apprehensions .

The demilitarization of Siachen glacier, the highest battleground in the world, could prove strategically suicidal for India as Pakistan has breached trust time and again, at the glacier and Kargil. Although it is said in the army circles that a decision on the demilitarization of the glacier is upto the Government, but militarily the need of the hour is to maintain Indian army footprints over there to foil Pakistan's designs. What if Pakistani troops occupy the glacier?," it is being asked.

It has been pointed out that the cost of evicting Pakistan that time would cannot be imagined in terms of lives , logistics and money. That's simply unthinkable the sources said. Siachen and consequently Kargil, were a manifestation of breach of trust

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 May 2011 22:17

China is a factor in all India Pakistan discussion

jai · Post by **jai** » 08 May 2011 00:28

Somehow, India needs to establish "very firm footsteps" in Afghanistan and should become as much a factor in Afghanistan - Pakistan relations and situation - IMO the time seem to be right with Americans planning to pull out of Afghanistan to do so. Maybe, we do need to double the number of c 17 orders.....

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 08 May 2011 03:57

Jyoti Malhotra: Their general and ours: Failing and flailing states

Why have Indian Service chiefs inserted themselves into an ongoing battle between the people and the civilian leadership, on one side, and the Pakistani Army, intelligence agencies and extremists on the other?

In the past week, in the wake of Osama bin Laden’s death, a text message on Pakistan’s various cell networks is said to have gone viral. The message reads: For sale! Obsolete Army radar, can’t detect copters, but can receive signals of Star Plus. Only Rs 999.

Pakistan is in the middle of one of its phases of self-doubting these days, believing it can, at least partially, be rescued through humour. In Islamabad last week, before Pakistan’s world fell apart — and the rest of the universe, more or less, was rejoined — several private conversations contained the plea that India, despite being periodically and systematically maimed by Pakistan, must reach out and help its western neighbour.
It was a simple enough argument, made much before the effect of boot-legged alcohol could hold sway.

“Pakistan won’t collapse, but it is a failing state. India is a democracy, it must be able to see that this thing called ‘terrorism’ was created by our Army to hurt you. Now these terrorists have outgrown their master and turned inwards upon the people of Pakistan. In the name of Islam, Muslim is killing Muslim, but the ‘terrorists’ continue to be in the hands of the Pakistani Army. It is the Army which believes India is its main enemy and it is the Army which exercises control over a divided political class inside Pakistan.”

We actually have, the Pakistani gentleman said in conclusion, the same enemy.

Clearly, a week is a long time in the life of any state. The people’s jury in Pakistan is still out on how deeply Ashfaq Kayani’s army and its handmaiden, the Inter-Services Intelligence, the ISI, was implicated in protecting bin Laden in his Abbottabad preserve. Even as this goes to press, ISI chief Shuja Pasha has flown to Washington DC to explain his agency’s failure or complicity — depending whom you’re listening to — in the Osama affair.

The rumour is that Pasha will quit, if only to assuage the growing anger, shame and humiliation inside Pakistan, and the feeling that someone must take responsibility for creating a country which protects the world’s most wanted men. From the Kuwaiti-born Khalid Sheikh Mohammed captured in Rawalpindi in March 2003 — he is said to have been the ‘architect’ of the September 11, 2001 incidents and the murder of Daniel Pearl — to the Indonesian terrorist Umar Patek, the mastermind of the 2002 Bali bombings, they’ve all been found in the vicinity of Abbottabad in recent years.

Apart from the fact that Pasha’s urgent flight out to DC underlines the dysfunctional nature of the US-Pakistani relationship (on the one hand, Pasha must answer the summons of his master who pays the bills that runs his country, on the other, Pakistani officials, reflecting a deep resentment of the US, have at least publicly refused to allow the Americans to independently interrogate Osama’s wives and many children left behind in the Abbottabad compound), it calls to mind the fundamental question: Did Pasha, and indeed Kayani, apologise to their own elected government for the biggest intelligence failure in its history?

Or, if the Pakistanis, along with the rest of the world, believe that the Army-ISI protected Osama bin Laden and that he couldn’t have lived in Abbottabad for six long years without their permission, then did the Pakistani Army-ISI do this with the permission of Yousaf Raza Gilani’s elected government?

It boggles the mind to think that Asif Ali Zardari, whose party swept to power in the 2008 elections which threw out the dictator Pervez Musharraf, could have sanctioned a Kayani-Pasha decision that Osama must be kept alive because he could come in handy to resurrect Pakistani influence in Afghanistan once the Americans had left.

In this ongoing battle between the people and the Pakistani army, mostly fought under the radar but sometimes emerging overground, India has always been both witness and player. India’s elected political class, its people and media have contained both strains within, the aggressive and the reflective. Both Atal Behari Vajpayee of the Bharatiya Janata Party and Manmohan Singh of the Congress repeatedly sought to build bridges with the Pakistani people because they know it is only they who can fray the skeins of Army control they have allowed themselves to be wrapped in.

In this complicated scenario, it looks as if India’s own generals, not content [ ???]with safeguarding India’s frontiers, are desperate to take a leaf out of their brother officers’ book in Pakistan: interfering in the civilian business of politics. For army chief Gen. VK Singh to say, in the wake of the US operation that killed Osama bin Laden, that India also had the capability of carrying out a similar operation, was clearly stepping out of line.

It was also endangering Manmohan Singh’s carefully-built peace process, dependent entirely on reaching out to Pakistan’s people.

In fact, India’s armed forces have been here before. In the wake of the Mumbai attacks in November 2008, then air force chief Fali Major strutted his stuff without worrying about the consequences. India could easily retaliate, he warned, in front of a TV-hungry audience baying for the blood of at least one Pakistani.

Fali Major’s comments were received with some horror by the political class, but no one knows whether Defence Minister AK Antony or Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called him or VK Singh in, rapped them on their knuckles and told them to tape their mouths.

Far more dangerous has been the Army’s veto over a Siachen deal with Pakistan. Rajiv Gandhi, in 1989, had agreed with Benazir Bhutto that the Indian army would withdraw from the Saltoro range in the Siachen glacier, where they have been perched since 1984 and where more men have died from frostbite than bullet wounds. It’s the most ridiculous non-war the Indian army has fought against Pakistan for 26 years, but clearly no prime minister since has had the courage to defy his generals.

At least in Pakistan, which has lived with martial law for more years than democracy, it’s not surprising the generals are in full control. Of course there’s no comparison, but the shocking part is that in India men in uniform can speak the way they do, despite India’s 63-year experience with democracy.

If the PM’s dearest wish is to help Pakistan in its battle for normalcy against its Army, then he must first look within. Telling the army chief to go back to his barracks would be a good start. It will show them in what part of South Block the real power lies.

This woman is such a moron! Perfect example of creating mountains out of molehills. If her fellow journalists had not asked the Army Chief about whether IA had the capability to do an Op Geronimo, the Army Chief would have never spoken about it. What if the Army Chief said "no" ? Then, the same lady would write "Oh well, IA is also incompetent like the Pakis who have proven that now."

What the hell does she mean by

the shocking part is that in India men in uniform can speak the way they do, despite India’s 63-year experience with democracy.

Democracy allows decision makers and military leaders to speak. Infact, the Indian Service Chiefs do not give out their assessments as often as they should! She also ignores the possibility that the Govt. might have asked the General to speak out and instill a fear of reprisal in the Pak Army.

In the US, the Service Chiefs, and actually all senior defence officials, regularly go to the media and televised House Committees and give out their military judgements on their own capabilities and military options on the table, but this is NOT construed as an indication that the military wants to go ahead and start a war!! Taking her argument further, if the IA conducts an exercise, that probably means that the IA is readying to attack Pak ??!! Shame on DDMites like her who treat the Service Chiefs as robots who're expected to lead forces into the battle but also required to keep quiet.

Ashutosh Malik · Post by **Ashutosh Malik** » 08 May 2011 08:31

Below is what I wrote in the comment section of Ms. Jyoti Malhotra's article. Let us see if they publish it.

--------------
So Ms. Malhotra thinks that if a General speaks his thoughts on a question asked by the journalists on whether India has a capability, he is undermining democracy! Amazing perspicacity!

And if Indian Army has strong views on Siachen it needs to tell them to the Political leadership, right? What is the Army for if it cannot provide its technical thoughts on an issue where it is supposed to be fighting?

And has Ms. Malhotra thought it through that since the final decision in India is that of the Political leadership, and since the Political leadership seems to have gone ahead with what the Army thinks on the Siachen issue, does it possibly occur to Ms. Malhotra that at least the majority view in the Political leadership seems to agree with what the Army says in case of Siachen? And isnt a decision always a case of weighing various options on the table?

And since when did being forthright on security issues of national importance and telling them to the Political leadership become a problem? I would in fact think that it would be criminal on the part of the Defence forces to not say it the way they think it should be said. After that, if the Political leadership with a considered view goes ahead with a different perspective that is the call that it has the right to take. Doesnt it?

So what is Ms. Malhotra's pain point? I think it is this amazing pussyfootedness with respect to issues of National Security. What is even more amazing that statements here and there on technical matters are considered by Ms. Malhotra as having a major impact on Indo-Pakistan relationship!

So I would imagine 64 years of Indo-Pak tussle is going to be solved or not going to be solved on some statement here and there by an Indian General of Air Marshal, but will not be impacted by our own nation's economic, military and diplomatic strengths and ability to strategically change the nature of the game between us and Pakistan and that with China.

Amazing lack of understanding!

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Best regards.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 08 May 2011 15:46

This is the problem of India. The 'elite' dont have skin in the game. They throw a blanket of security around themselves which is woven by the sacrifices of ordinary people (civilians and forces) and think they can be secure if society isnt.

If disaster happens they will not be immediately effected. Unlike in other countries they have no immediate friends and family in the forces who will take the brunt of evicting the enemy after the disaster. Like Kunti in Mahabharat said 'yeh dharamyudh hai aur mujhe bhi apne kosh se ek putr to dena padega'. Miss Malhotra will not not have to give anything from her kosh. Ask a Ladhaki. They will remind her that they fought with bows and arrows in 1948 to safeguard their lands. Or ask the people of Rajasthan or Punjab or Assam or Arunachal. They know how it feels to live on the edge like in the outer room of a large house surrounded by a very dangerous neighbourhood.

But ultimately nature will take its course. If Sicahen goes follwed by J&K; Delhi, Mumbai and Bangaluru can never be safe. Nor can NRIs. So ultimately the price will be paid. If our elites dont pay it now, their children will have to.

We are all in it togther!

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 08 May 2011 17:03

About Ms. Malhotra, I can only say that the rogue journalism that she is pursuing is best ignored. I personally think she is flaming to get hits and raise herself to become a celebrity.

A friend once told me that if one goes and punches Fred Phelps in the face it will only make him feel more righteous. I think the same applies here.