Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 2011

[Bhaskar]

So it's the fault of the "American masters" that MMS is so eager to forget 26/11 and play cricket with the pakis?

No its not their fault, it is MMS's predilection and his Amercian masters a catalyst. The fault lies with the Indian people for tolerating someone like MMS as their leader.

CRamS, true but unfortunately safety from terrorists just doesnt find its place in the list of demands for a common middle class Indian.

[Hitesh]

Again, we don't disagree that the Chinese and Pakistani convergence is mostly about India, and to a lesser extent about America.

While the threat perception itself may not be rational, the fact that these common perceptions of threats and interests have produced a strong relationship is hardly irrational or emotional.

That is no different from any other successful alliance structure - its something that has been observed and studied in International Relations by practitioners and scholars in many places and times.

- The 'future benefit stream' with China is secure, while that with America although financially larger is prone to periodic disruptions because of fundamental divergences in interests.

- Chinese assistance to Pakistan's strategic deterrence is not one time - it is continuous and ongoing. Pakistan is aggressively expanding its fissile material production capacity, and inducting new missile types. Pakistan wants a deterrent that can provide a second strike against India, and perhaps one day the US as well. Its also providing something of a back up deterrent to the Saudis against Iran.

On a separate track substantial Chinese economic investments in Pakistan continue to grow, and relationship in conventional weapon systems remain, and will get more attractive over time as China catches up with the West.

If this is true, then it seems that we are seeing a historical re-enactment of modern day affair of Privaji and Ghazni. Like Privaji did to Ghazni, India has defeated Pakistan three times and under current leadership, thinks that Pakistan is contained and managed. The danger is that like Ghazni came back with a vengeance and defeated Privaji, Pakistan will come back with a vengeance and only this time, nuclear armed and fully capable of wiping India out. And China is helping Pakistan along.

How can we avoid that situation?

[A_Gupta]

If MMS is such a roll-over, why did India block the European Union proposal to let Pakistani textiles in duty-free for three years, which would have cost India, Bangladesh, Vietnam and Peru?

An American opinion (C. Christine Fair) was "this is ridiculous, India has no vision for stability for South Asia", and my counter was that Bangladesh has de-jihadized, secularized and become more friendly with India, and the vision for stability is to support one's friends; why should Pakistan be given more exports at the cost to Bangladesh, and why should India acquiesce?

[Kanishka]

An American opinion (C. Christine Fair) was "this is ridiculous, India has no vision for stability for South Asia", and my counter was that Bangladesh has de-jihadized, secularized and become more friendly with India, and the vision for stability is to support one's friends; why should Pakistan be given more exports at the cost to Bangladesh, and why should India acquiesce?

The truth is that USA has no vision for stability in South Asia . If they did, they would have confronted Pakistan duplicity long ago and not lose 18 billion dollars and ten years in the process.
The WOT was lost the moment Pakistan was accepted as an ally.
What a waste!

[Anindya]

An American opinion (C. Christine Fair) was "this is ridiculous, India has no vision for stability for South Asia"

Can you provide the reference for this quote please?

[Vivek_A]

If MMS is such a roll-over, why did India block the European Union proposal to let Pakistani textiles in duty-free for three years, which would have cost India, Bangladesh, Vietnam and Peru?

Between standing up for the people killed in bombay and the a few million $ of textile exports, not all of them going to India, MMS took a stand on the later..

yeah...way to go...that's teach the ISI...no..wait...that will teach their towel manufacturers.

[jrjrao]

An American opinion (C. Christine Fair) was "this is ridiculous, India has no vision for stability for South Asia"

Can you provide the reference for this quote please?

Look up the twitter postings of Ms. Fair (which I generally find silly, and full of juvenile attempts at trying to be provocative and foul-mouthed).

[jrjrao]

Good summary of NaPakistan by Alan Caruba:

The Pakistani Pit of Deception
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/36254

Pakistan, Divided, disorganized, economically backward, corrupt, violent, unjust, often savagely oppressive towards the poor and women, and home to extremism and terrorism

If it were an individual, Pakistan would be diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, subject to raging fears that India intends to invade on a moment’s notice and antagonistic to Afghanistan as it harbors those who attack it.

In many ways, Pakistan is barely a nation...Pakistan is a perfect example of why the U.S. and the West are stymied by the illogic, the irrationality, and the duplicity of nations in which Islam is the predominant factor in their politics and society.

[Anindya]

Some things never change....from
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 201127.cms

Hundreds of terrorists waiting to cross over to India

Latest intelligence inputs show over 100 terrorists are waiting at the "launch pads" along the LoC to infiltrate into J&K, with another 700-800 militants holed up in different terror-training camps in Pakistan.

This comes even as a fresh set of US cables released by Wikileaks has reinforced the direct links between ISI and anti-India terror outfits like Laskhar-eTaiba, which even hold that the Pakistan army plays a role in selecting the targets to be attacked.

The US records, based on the interrogation reports of 779 prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, also clearly show that Washington was well aware that Pakistan's security establishment was running terror-training camps directed against India.

Abdul Azia, an al-Qaida courier and LeT operative from Algeria arrested by the US in 2002, for instance, is quoted as saying that ISI "allowed" militants to sneak inside India to bomb, kidnap or kill Kashmiri people. His mission, he said, was to "kill Indians in India".

Other detainees held that al-Qaida, apart from the plan to bomb an Indian airliner, was interested in India as "a platform to send operatives to the US or UK because of the large Muslim population there and the low-level of scrutiny given to travellers of Indian nationality".

Indian security and intelligence agencies maintain that there are still 34 'active' and eight 'holding' camps operational across the border. The 'active' camps in PoK range from those in Kotli, Garhi Dupatta, Nikial, Forward Kahutta and Peer Chinasi to the ones in Jhandi Chauntra, Bhimbher, Barnala, Skardu and Abdullah Bin Masud. The North-West Frontier Province also remains a prominent centre for training jihadis, especially in the densely-forested and hilly Manshera region.

The recent ceasefire violations by Pakistan – thrice in two weeks – are seen as attempts to infiltrate terrorists into J&K. "Firing from across the border generally takes place to provide cover to terrorists who want to infiltrate. Security forces have been asked to remain vigilant as such attempts may be repeated," said an official.

The ceasefire violations along the LoC took place on May 5, April 24 and April 22. The Indo-Pak ceasefire, along the 198-km international border in J&K, the 778-km LoC and the 110-km Actual Ground Position Line in the Siachen-Saltoro Ridge region, came into force as a confidence-building measure in November 2003. While in the initial years it largely held, Pakistan army has gone back to its old gambit of giving "covering or diversionary fire" to help infiltrating militants.

[Brad Goodman]

ANALYSIS: If trade flows big, can peace be far behind? —Muhammad Aftab

Pakistan, since 2007, has demanded the removal of India’s at least 27 non-tariff barriers on Pakistani exports. The restrictions range from the actual inspection of Pakistani goods to rejection of 90 percent visa applications of Pakistani businessmen to travel to India

On both sides, the stakes and expected business volumes are high, only if the two governments help and political bickering does not obstruct trade. They, previously, had set a two-way trade target of $ 10 billion, which was to be achieved by 2010. But the actual business is still much less. Indian exports to Pakistan were just $ 1.2 billion in the fiscal year that ended on June 30, 2010. Pakistani exports to India were merely $ 270 million. Officials estimate, illegal and unregulated trade between the two countries moving via Dubai and Singapore is between $ 2-3 billion. But, the officials project, bilateral trade can rise to $ 6.5 billion a year, from $ 2 billion.

Our IT sector, with 150,000 professionals and a billion dollar exports, also hopes to win a good deal of business process outsourcing from India, collaborative development centres, cross-selling of products, and launch of India-Pakistan IT joint ventures in third countries.

[Brad Goodman]

not sure if this slimeball's article was posted

Ahmed Rashid: the power of Pakistani conspiracy theories

Pakistan is not a failed state, or as yet a failing one, even though it may be in a state of chaos or meltdown. Unlike really failed states, it has a powerful army and a corrupt, run-down, but still functioning bureaucracy, judiciary, and police force. Pakistanis perform outstandingly well in the realm of culture: in the arts, television, fashion design, pop music, and of course cricket. What is missing are adequate social services, such as health care, education, population-control programs, and jobs for a population that is nearing 200 million people. Like many Arab countries, Pakistan faces a youth bulge, with an estimated 60 percent of its people under twenty-five years old

Last I heard they had banned Katthak in schools (their national dance) other than hasina atum bum there are no movies produced only vibrant cultural enterprise is to pirate bollywood movies and burning yamreeka flags.

For these young people without adequate education and employment, who have to deal with a corrupt system that offers no panacea to the poor, joining an Islamic extremist group is not at all unusual. It is the norm. For this reason, a replay of an “Arab awakening” in Pakistan would not lead to the dawn of true democracy, but rather to a mass movement whose leadership would swiftly fall into the hands of Islamic extremists, who would then try to overthrow the state.

And pray what should we care if pseudo jihadis are replaced by real ones

What Pakistanis desperately need is a new narrative by their leaders—a narrative that does not blame the evergreen troika of India, the United States, and Israel for all of the country’s ills, that breaks the old habit of blaming outsiders and instead looks at itself more honestly and more transparently. Pakistanis as a nation seem incapable of self-analysis, of apportioning blame according to logic and reason rather than emotion.

Ok so you throw in some truth along with BS to make it palatable to western audience

Along with the causes that I listed above, the wave of intolerance sweeping the country is also due substantially to the conspiracy theories put about by the ruling establishment and their allies in the media. These various hallucinations paint Pakistan as the victim, maligned and wronged at the hands of foreign powers—especially the United States and India. In the imagination of many Pakistanis, the country is regularly used for some geopolitical aim by the Americans and then discarded in favor of India. These sinister outsiders want to subvert, destroy, and undermine Pakistan—but no logical reason is offered as to why. And few will publicly argue that in fact it is the selective state sponsorship of extremism that is destroying the country.

The narrative that has been peddled by the state for much of the past decade is that Pakistan is being undermined by the presence of American forces in Afghanistan, and that if they were to leave the Pakistani Taliban would go home, the suicide bombings would cease, and everything would go back to normal. The ultimate aim of the United States in Afghanistan—so the narrative continues—is to capture Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, even as India is busily dismembering Pakistan by funding Baloch separatists and the Pakistani Taliban. But if that is so, why on earth did the state allow the revival of the Afghan Taliban in 2003, which has only delayed the American withdrawal from Afghanistan? And for those demanding higher military budgets, the most self-serving conspiracy theory is that Pakistan is locked in an interminable conflict with India, which cannot be resolved.

[shiv]

not sure if this slimeball's article was posted

Ahmed Rashid: the power of Pakistani conspiracy theories

Pakistan is not a failed state, or as yet a failing one, even though it may be in a state of chaos or meltdown. Unlike really failed states, it has a powerful army and a corrupt, run-down, but still functioning bureaucracy, judiciary, and police force. Pakistanis perform outstandingly well in the realm of culture: in the arts, television, fashion design, pop music, and of course cricket. What is missing are adequate social services, such as health care, education, population-control programs, and jobs for a population that is nearing 200 million people. Like many Arab countries, Pakistan faces a youth bulge, with an estimated 60 percent of its people under twenty-five years old

You know, I am beginning to feel that in addition to pointing out where Pakis boast about what they don't have (or the little they achieve) we in India need to see how every nation praises and highlights its own achievements in a boastful way while ignoring the little details that take the shine off. As a group I believe we in India do not do that. We are taught to see ourselves and our compatriots in a strict critical way. This Paki's words chafe, but the Chinese are doing exactly that - even now there are posts in the China military watch forum magnifying myth. The US has an entire propaganda apparatus to magnify myth. But as a people we come down hard on any Indian who appears to be magnifying myth.

Sorry OT

[Hari Seldon]

If this is true, then it seems that we are seeing a historical re-enactment of modern day affair of Privaji and Ghazni. Like Privaji did to Ghazni, India has defeated Pakistan three times and under current leadership, thinks that Pakistan is contained and managed. The danger is that like Ghazni came back with a vengeance and defeated Privaji, Pakistan will come back with a vengeance and only this time, nuclear armed and fully capable of wiping India out. And China is helping Pakistan along.

Err, no. Historical parallels break down after a point - structural breaks in technology being one such break point.

The advent of nukes has changed the game completely of course. So much so that even the henry kissassinger types have turned doves now and advocate rajiv-ji's favorite line of 'global n-disarmament' only. The reason is that there is no 'outside theater' to an n-war. If and when PRC (or other 2.5 sponsors) allow, facilitate, permit or enable a pak n-strike on India, they all become fair game for random n-strikes from nameless sources down the line.

It is this reason why, everybody knows and accepts that the gifters of n-tech to pak better keep a PAL-led control on n-detonation. If they 'allow' (and it can't be otherwise for India won't see it any other way) n-use against India, their goose will cook too, slowly but surely, in the blink of a historical eyelid. Those who live by the n-sword also die by it only.

[arun]

X Posted from the Indian Army News and Discussion thread.

Retired Major General Ashok K Mehta in the Wall Street Journal:

India's Own Operation Geronimo? : Preparing for a strike today could avoid the need for an actual one tomorrow

[vijayk]

Good summary of NaPakistan by Alan Caruba:

The Pakistani Pit of Deception
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/36254

Pakistan, Divided, disorganized, economically backward, corrupt, violent, unjust, often savagely oppressive towards the poor and women, and home to extremism and terrorism

If it were an individual, Pakistan would be diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, subject to raging fears that India intends to invade on a moment’s notice and antagonistic to Afghanistan as it harbors those who attack it.

In many ways, Pakistan is barely a nation...Pakistan is a perfect example of why the U.S. and the West are stymied by the illogic, the irrationality, and the duplicity of nations in which Islam is the predominant factor in their politics and society.

If there is one phrase which defines many aspects of Pakistan…it is ‘Janus-faced’: in other words, many of the same features of Pakistan’s state and government which are responsible for holding Islamist extremism in check are at one and the same time responsible for holding back Pakistan’s social, economic, and political development.”

“Pakistan,” writes Lieven, “is divided, disorganized, economically backward, corrupt, violent, unjust, often savagely oppressive towards the poor and women, and home to extremely dangerous forms of extremism and terrorism.”

But for most of the white Western journalists who are doing the job for their Govt., this is only true in case of Pakistani dealings with the west. When it comes to Indian dealings, they are honest, upright and sincere and India has to meet al the demands of Pakis. Why? First of all, our Nikkamma of CON party, DDM, Left con sickulars are coming to the help of Paki scums and trying to undermine the interests of India.

[Hari Seldon]

from twitter

>>http://bit.ly/ji8ay7 AQ planning to use Indians for terror attacks because of low-level of scrutiny Indians are subjected to in the west

[pgbhat]

^ That is the whole point of "Karachi Project" no?

[A_Gupta]

An American opinion (C. Christine Fair) was "this is ridiculous, India has no vision for stability for South Asia"

Can you provide the reference for this quote please?

On twitter.
http://twitter.com/#!/CChristineFair

and scroll down.

[negi]

^ It might be very well a TSPA-ISI plot to snipe using AQ's shoulder.

[anupmisra]

How time changes one's perspective. Here's Time magazine's listing of Ahmed Shuja Pasha as 100 Most Influential People.

Within weeks of Lieut. General Ahmed Shuja Pasha's becoming head of Pakistan's top intelligence agency, ISI, in 2008, terrorist attacks in Mumbai seriously roiled already stressed U.S.-Pakistani relations. Pasha, 59, has grown progressively more suspicious of U.S. motives and staying power. The arrest of a U.S. government contractor in Lahore has led to acrimony. And larger changes in Pakistan — the growth of fundamentalism, nationalism and anti-Americanism — have squeezed the space in which any ISI chief can cooperate with the U.S. Pasha, a Pakistani patriot and American partner, now must find these two roles even more difficult to reconcile — and at a time when much of U.S. counterterrorism success depends on exactly that.

And, now rumors floating around are speculating whether uber-patriot Pasha has fled the crime scene called pa'astan.

[Anindya]

On twitter.
http://twitter.com/#!/CChristineFair
and scroll down.

Thanks for the link - she sounds like a Paki government official, with a little bit of verbal flourish

[CRamS]

http://twitter.com/#!/CChristineFair
and scroll down.

I am not a social networking buff except LinkedIn which I use for professional reasons, but does one need a twitter account to view the details. Also I scroll down, the damn scroll bar never ends, the moment I reach the end, the scroll bary goes up again and there are more silly one liners and about some kabab place and Fair baby not getting her tempernillo. Please advise.

[jrjrao]

Wow.

This is lovely. Superbly lovely, in fact. A magnum opus of a blog post from Prof. Walter Russell Mead.

It is long, and will take some time to read, but it is very rewarding. Deserves a place on the opening page roster of this thread.

I tried to start quoting selections in this post, and then gave up...

May 8, 2011
High Noon in Pakistan
WALTER RUSSELL MEAD
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... -pakistan/

[Bhaskar]

from twitter

>>http://bit.ly/ji8ay7 AQ planning to use Indians for terror attacks because of low-level of scrutiny Indians are subjected to in the west

If AQ does succeed then India's voice against Terrorism originating from Pakistan can be ridiculed. Lets hope our government takes steps to ensure no one from the Indian origin is indicted of terrorism.

[ramana]

from twitter

>>http://bit.ly/ji8ay7 AQ planning to use Indians for terror attacks because of low-level of scrutiny Indians are subjected to in the west

Quite silly. For it stereo types Indians.

[Prasad]

http://twitter.com/#!/CChristineFair
and scroll down.

I am not a social networking buff except LinkedIn which I use for professional reasons, but does one need a twitter account to view the details. Also I scroll down, the damn scroll bar never ends, the moment I reach the end, the scroll bary goes up again and there are more silly one liners and about some kabab place and Fair baby not getting her tempernillo. Please advise.

No, you don't need an account to read tweets. If you want to keep track of the tweets from a set of persons, like you would have a feed reader for a blog, having an account makes sense. You dont have to do anything, just click on "follow" in a persons profile and you're set. Their tweets will show up on your homepage. More help here if you need - http://support.twitter.com/groups/31-twitter-basics

[Sri]

If this is true, then it seems that we are seeing a historical re-enactment of modern day affair of Privaji and Ghazni. Like Privaji did to Ghazni, India has defeated Pakistan three times and under current leadership, thinks that Pakistan is contained and managed. The danger is that like Ghazni came back with a vengeance and defeated Privaji, Pakistan will come back with a vengeance and only this time, nuclear armed and fully capable of wiping India out. And China is helping Pakistan along.

How can we avoid that situation?

Very true. Not only Ghazani. The Kushan kings and Alaxader reached India when the states controlling the Khyber made a deal with outsiders and gave access to India from this particular part. Americans and Chinese at some level must know the importance of control of Khyber.

I would be interesting to study the politics of states starting 3500 years ago to see how control of Khyber has given important political leverage to all these states. No matter how many times you chase away the invaders until Lhyber is not in India's control, they will always fancy their chances.

[jrjrao]

Yikes.

Shriman Babar Sattar, the PPP stalwart, in this op-ed in the Dawn drops a nuke megaton bum on Kiyani and Pasha.

Of course, there is the usual hard-on for harming the yindoos:

Shielding Afghan Taliban leaders or India-focused militant leaders, however misconceived, is still understandable as part of a warped strategy to promote our defined strategic interests. Hosting Bin Laden or other Al Qaeda leaders isn’t.

But if we ignore and get past this, this is still a sledgehammer being rammed up the musharraf of Kiyani and Pasha:

Be it a rise in suicide bombing and terror incidents within Pakistan, an increase in US drone strikes in our territory, the Mumbai attacks or the Osama operation, the threat to Pakistan’s interests for being perceived as a pad for terrorist activity and to its citizens as targets of terror has proliferated under Gen Kayani’s watch. Is it not time for Gen Kayani to call it quits and take along with him the DG ISI and the air chief? Shouldn’t these heads roll to account for failing to do their jobs?

With them in the driving seat it might neither be possible to hold a transparent inquiry into the security breaches that led to the Osama operation and its execution without Pakistan’s knowledge nor engage in a rethink of our perverse national security mindset. Can we shed some baggage and create room for untainted faces and ideas?

It is time to completely liquidate the jihadi project and cleanse our state machinery of those who believe in its virtue. And it is time to shun the delusions of grandeur and conspiracy that prevent us from realising our potential as a responsible and industrious nation.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/08/time-for ... -roll.html

[Hari Seldon]

From the economiised rag...

Ensoi

[Samay]

Media (specially Indian media) is spreading bogus news,talking too much that US is pressurizing pakis and it is going to act,put sanctions,declare isi as a terrorist outfit ,etc...but on the ground nothingwill happen against pakis-the non nato ally. Indian media has a special interest in spreading rumours about US taking tough action against pakis,such as to hide the 26/11 trial status and to hide the own failures of the Indian state for not acting on time... whereas US would be looking forward for more assistance from pakis before it gets out of afpak and to negotiate with taliban before its exit.

There is no strategic dividend they will get from afpak region until and unless they do not dismantle the terrorist state of pakistan, which doesnt looks possible as they are not interested in doing so. Many people in western world have a view that breaking pakistan would help radicals get hold of islamabad and afg both, while they dont understand that TSP is that radical which had got hold of islamabad and that region.

We will see more drama in the media during headley trial like the revelations,the US spokesperson saying that US is serious about all that etc, all this would present a spicy cuisine for the media to present before foolish public of the subcontinent but the real situation wont change,, There are 2 possibilities , either the US janta tells DC that this is too much, just nuke them if you want,but this too much war and get out from there,, or they dismantle tsp and then solve the situation, but the second possibility is very dim, the US donot have an appetite for another war, so laden killing could be a measure to hide shame of a world superpower losing that war because it had chosen wrong allies and still lives in cold war mentality..
In the end we have to be self dependent , prepared to face the situation
Jai Hind

[Anujan]

For some comic relief: http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/09/drone-technology.html

A FORMER parliamentarian from Khyber Agency, Muhammad Shah Afridi, has recently offered to provide a prototype of a drone to the government within 24 hours. According to his claim, US Predators could be easily jammed if he is allowed to do so.

If the said claim is correct, may we request Mr Afridi to give a test demonstration by targeting our parliament while it is in session. If successful, we are sure that his invention would change the destiny of this nation.

DR IRFAN ZAFAR
Islamabad

[Sushupti]

Pakistan being treated as hired gun: Imran Khan

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/p ... dtv/198969

[sum]

Is the correct word "hired gun" or a famous product made of rubber/latex that we all know?

[SSridhar]

Obama has no scheduled visit to Pakistan this year: White House

US president Barack Obama has no schedule, at this moment, to go to Pakistan this year, his National Security Advisor has said, as the diplomatic fallout from the killing of Osama bin Laden intensified.

Just before his maiden trip to India last November, Obama in a meeting with visiting delegation of Pakistani officials at the White House had announced that he would be travelling to Pakistan later this year.

And before this his Pakistani counterpart Asif Ali Zardari too would be visiting him at the White House early this year, reporters were told.

The state department too hasn't announced the dates of the strategic dialogue; which were held three times last year.

Initially scheduled to be held in March, it was postponed amidst the Raymond Davis controversy.

Unofficially, it was being told that the strategic dialogue would be held in the last half of May.

State department spokesman Mark Toner told reporters this week that no dates have been determined yet.

[jrjrao]

From David Frum:

Is U.S. role in Afghan war obsolete?
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/09/f ... stan.trap/

...this week, we have exposed to sight two huge problems with the usual answer.

1. The world's most important terrorist safe haven is visibly not Afghanistan, but instead next-door Pakistan.

2. Because the U.S. presence in Afghanistan requires cooperation from Pakistan, the Afghanistan mission perversely inhibits the United States from taking more decisive action against Pakistan's harboring of terrorism.

In order to prevent Afghanistan from ever again harboring a potential future bin Laden, we have to indulge Pakistan as it harbors the actual bin Laden!

Think now: What would our policy in South Asia look like if we had a much smaller mission in Afghanistan? Perhaps 20,000 U.S. and allied troops on a security assistance mission rather than 100,000-plus on a combat mission?

By emancipating itself from dependence on Pakistan, the United States would gain scope to focus on the most vital questions in the U.S.-Pakistan relationship, such as:

• How confident do we feel that the people who sheltered bin Laden do not also control Pakistan's nuclear force?

• If we do not have confidence in the people who control Pakistan's nuclear force, what plans do we have to disable that nuclear force?

• Why wasn't Pakistani nuclear scientist A.Q. Khan, the Johnny Appleseed of nuclear proliferation, delivered to U.S. custody?

• Pakistan has a long history of not only harboring anti-U.S. terrorism, but actively promoting and supporting terrorism against India. Why is Pakistan not listed alongside Iran as a state sponsor of terror?

• Why is Pakistan receiving U.S. military aid?

The less committed we are to Afghanistan, the more independent we are of Pakistan. The more independent we are of Pakistan, the more leverage we have over Pakistan. The more leverage we have over Pakistan, the more clout we have to shut down Pakistan's long, vicious, and now not credibly deniable state support for terrorism.

[SSridhar]

Pak ignored US warnings on unilateral action on Osama

An unnamed top-ranking US official said: "Time and again we have warned Pakistan but it seems like your officials live in a dreamland and believe that we need you so much that we will close our eyes and ears to all you do."

This official angrily asserted that US had warned Pakistan time and again that it would undertake unilateral action against bin Laden if the US thought Pakistan would not act on its own.

"While willing to avoid placing excessive open pressure on a weak civilian government and often issuing statements that reassured Pakistan, Americans repeatedly said they felt betrayed," the report said.

Can some 'Chanakyan' interpret the bolded statement above ? Why should any foreign government bother about whether there is a military or civilian government in Pakistan or how weak the civilian government was ? The US government's past behaviour has been to support the military rulers to the hilt, condone their atrocious behaviour and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with them. Everybody knows that there are many no-go areas for any Pakistani civilian government such as relations with India, Afghanistan and the US, or nuclear weapons or terrorism or narcotics trade in which areas only the PA decided everything. How would 'excessive open pressure' or even 'no pressure' for that matter change the situation ? And, the US anyway bypasses the civilian Pakistani government and deals with the PA/ISI. At least the US therefore plays a double game. But, the funniest thing is that many Indians also believe that a civilian government in Pakistan should not be weakened by our actions. What a ridiculous notion !

[A_Gupta]

Wow.

This is lovely. Superbly lovely, in fact. A magnum opus of a blog post from Prof. Walter Russell Mead.

It is long, and will take some time to read, but it is very rewarding. Deserves a place on the opening page roster of this thread.

I tried to start quoting selections in this post, and then gave up...

May 8, 2011
High Noon in Pakistan
WALTER RUSSELL MEAD
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... -pakistan/

Key quote for the WKKs:

...in the meantime it is transparently clear that whether incompetence or malfeasance is more to blame, the government of Pakistan cannot safely be trusted — by anyone, on anything.

[sum]

^^But WKK logic is that GoP ( civilian) is lily-white onlee and only big, bad TSPA/ISI isn't allowing Pak to be friendly with India. But, taking revenge on TSPA also isn't allowed as it will make civilians also go against India

So, seems like India is stuck in a Paki monkey trap where we are bad guys if we retaliate since we are uniting Pak and even utterances by Army chiefs or gloating over Paki misfortunes isn't allowed since even that allows Pak to get united against India..So, we should just keep taking the punches thrown at us and keep praying that Pak implodes one fine day ( and not even cheer when minor implosions/IED mubaraks happen).

[A_Gupta]

Taylor Dinerman on Pakistan's nuclear strategy:
http://www.hudson-ny.org/2040/pakistan-nuclear-doctrine

[A_Gupta]

^^But WKK logic is that GoP ( civilian) is lily-white onlee and only big, bad TSPA/ISI isn't allowing Pak to be friendly with India. But, taking revenge on TSPA also isn't allowed as it will make civilians also go against India

So, seems like India is stuck in a Paki monkey trap where we are bad guys if we retaliate since we are uniting Pak and even utterances by Army chiefs or gloating over Paki misfortunes isn't allowed since even that allows Pak to get united against India..So, we should just keep taking the punches thrown at us and keep praying that Pak implodes one fine day ( and not even cheer when minor implosions/IED mubaraks happen).

No, Sum, Prof WRM writes about the US:

To get our relationship with Pakistan on the right track, the Obama administration is going to have to assemble and develop some serious threats.....On the other hand, the administration needs to develop a crystal clear and specific vision for what we want from Pakistan and what we will do if and only if we can secure it.

I think the same holds true for India.