Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 2011

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 22 May 2011 09:58

Or maybe Abdullah-sahib is talking about drive-through Pakistans that are common in Europe along highways.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 May 2011 10:04

Altair wrote:To go low where no one has gone before!!

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 22 May 2011 10:08

SSridhar wrote:Perfidy - from TFT
These are the ruins of an ancient Buddhist university in the Sharda valley, Azad Kashmir, only 100 miles from Srinagar. The university is more than 2,000 years old and was once considered the highest seat of learning in the land. Pilgrims came from all over India to pray and worship here, and the students here took courses in history, philosophy and moral reasoning. Even 1,000 years after it was built, long after it had fallen into desuetude, Al-Beruni mentions its abiding prestige in his Tarikh-al-Hind .

The university is situated on a mountain right above the Neelum River. Gray stone slabs of belief-defying proportions form the holy steps that lead up to the grassy campus, where today Pakistani soldiers do their pushups. There is, in the center of the enclosed grassy patch, an imposing temple made of the same gray stone. It once contained a holy statue. According to a local tour guide, it was the statue that was anciently revered by pilgrims and scholars. In 1947, when it became evident that this part of Kashmir would stay with Pakistan, the maharaja commanded the residents of Sharda to remove the holy statue from its place in the temple and lug it all the way to Srinagar. Now in those days the people of Kashmir were obliged to perform unpaid labour for the maharajah, and they despaired at the thought of lugging the heavy statue on foot through the twisting mountain paths. So the elders and numberdars of Sharda convened a meeting one night and decided to feign grief: they would pretend that they too were devoted, despite their Muslim faith, to the holy statue and couldn’t bear to be separated from it. Everyone was urged to weep; those who couldn’t muster real tears were instructed to put masala in their eyes.

The plan worked: in the chaos of the Partition the maharaja forgot about the statue. And, soon after their new freedom had been secured, the people of Sharda (now only Muslims) got together and threw the troublesome statue into the river far below to ensure that no one ever laid claim to it again.
Kashmiriyat in full flow. Nobody explained the concept of Kashmiriyat to me until I read this just now.

I am guessing that this must be the saraswati temple of kashmir, which is recited in many many prayers. I didnt know this before

This temple was supposed to have been established by Shankaracharya himself.

Varanasyam Vishalakshi, Kashmire tu Saraswati
Ashtadasha Shakti peethani, Yoginamapi durlabham

http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Ashta_Dasa ... ha_Stotram

http://www.koausa.org/KoshSam/sharda1.html

I think I have seen more than enough of kashmiriyat for my next 1000 lives.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 May 2011 10:29

arun wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:Another anti India article.
http://www.economist.com/node/18712274? ... d=18712274
Pakistan and India
A rivalry that threatens the world
Nowhere in the article has the Economist suggested that Jammu and Kashmir or Afghanistan be handed over to the Islamic Republic.

I agree. That article was a 101-type article for those who do not understand India-Pakistan issues. The only problem I have is with the use of the word 'rivalry' in the title. This connotes that India is also rivalling with Pakistan, which has never been the case in 64 years.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 22 May 2011 11:02

SSridhar wrote: Pakistan and India
A rivalry that threatens the world
Nowhere in the article has the Economist suggested that Jammu and Kashmir or Afghanistan be handed over to the Islamic Republic.

"I agree. That article was a 101-type article for those who do not understand India-Pakistan issues. The only problem I have is with the use of the word 'rivalry' in the title. This connotes that India is also rivalling with Pakistan, which has never been the case in 64 years."[/quote]
The article mirrors the position taken by the West when the headline states:
"Pakistan’s dangerous fondness for jihadis, the Taliban and nuclear weapons is rooted in its fears of India"
Pakistan's current predicament has nothing to do with India. Pakistan has gone there all by itself. It is not correct to say that Pakistan small and poorer than India and is afraid of it. Hence it cultivating the Jihadis, the Taliban and Nooclear weapons. Today Pakistan is insecure. But you can not fault India for this.
Arunji, I did not say that the Economist was advocating that Cashmere or Afghanistan be handed over. It was my comment on the perceived core issue as put forward by Pakistan. Sorry if not made clear.
Gautam

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 22 May 2011 11:23

That article was a 101-type article for those who do not understand India-Pakistan issues. The only problem I have is with the use of the word 'rivalry' in the title.

Sridhar Ji was about to post the same thing about the use of the word 'rivalry'. But off late even in much of the foreign press the word being used is not 'rivalry' but "Pakistan's obsession with India' or even 'paranoia'. That is a much better way of relating to the truth than the word 'rivalry'.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 May 2011 11:36

Pakistan: A Hard Country by Anatol Lieven (video)

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 May 2011 11:58

Zardari was in Russia recently to beg the russians for engines for the 50 odd JF-17 bandars that the chinese would supply.
I think they would be also hoping for/making initial inquires into acquiring Russian avionics for JF-17.

The pro-quid-quo was the hit on the Chechans day before yesterday. The Pakistanis (ISI) probably invited them for a meeting, and killed them all in cold blood - women 7 months pregnant non-withstanding.

If these were indeed chechan terrorists, then they are known to be brutal in their methods.

Knowing the Pakistanis, they would have sacrificed some of the lower rung of the chechans, the higher ones would be reserved for a rainy day in the future.

China is more than scared about Pakistan (ISI) using its leverage with the Uighur separatists. The ISI has allowed them to be trained at their Jihadi camps. Sooner or later (expectedly sooner) the pakistanis will be using them as leverage against china. Pakistan uses these 'favours' to tackle policies exactly like the chineses' "Don't give hard cash as financial assistance to any country".

Wouldn't the Pakistanis 'happen' to find some leverage, should some uighurs do a terrorist hit in china? Hasn't Pakistan been proving itself to be indispensable every time a terrorist carries out a terrorist strike in a foreign country? When a terrorist plot is traced back to Pakistan?
Similarly didn't 9/11 prove to be a financial, military and political windfall for Pakistan, because the plotters 'happened' to do their deeds in Pakistan?

Interesting thoughts. The Chinese have been warned, and no one has yet accused them of being stupid. The are getting caught up in the monkey trap that the US is entangled into.

The Chinese can't withdraw from Pakistan, because to do so will mean no control over the uighurs and the ISI. Being involved will mean a financial and political drain on China

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 May 2011 12:03

Point to note: For all the love, money and political capital that China has showered on Pakistan, I don't remember any of the Pakistani Jihadis ever praising the Chinese ever. Hamid Gul might be grateful because China rescued him from the UN list of 'Terrorists', but the future for the likes of Hamid Gul is not too bright.

If they are not careful, the purer talibs will rate them on the same level as Khalid Khawaja and Col Imam

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 May 2011 12:11

But the chinese aren't the soft-handed indians in kashmir. They will bulldoze dozens of towns together if they have to, to remove the problem. And will still come to the table to gubo the isi.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 May 2011 13:05

>>>"Ultimately it means talking to the Taliban," he said, adding that the "Taliban would have to cut all ties to al-Qaeda, renounce violence and they would have to respect the Afghan constitution".

Does this remind anybody of anything?

I could be wrong, but I think this is the first time the US has formulated its approach to Afghan policy in this way...

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 22 May 2011 13:29

"Taliban would have to cut all ties to al-Qaeda, renounce violence and they would have to respect the Afghan constitution".

What is the Afghan Constitution and what would it be like post Taliban talks?

Pakistan's problem is also the constitution which declares it an Islamic republic and it's PA, ISI and GOP don't respect it enough to enforce even the basics of Sharia Law that include stoning and death penalty for blasphemy. It is infuriating the more pious and the Taliban are fully representing the most pious elements in the Islamic republic.

So who is not respecting the Islamic Constitution of the Republic of Afghanistan or Pakistan? That's where the Taliban will ultimately win. It's just so easy really for the beards.

Ultimately people will have to realize it's not the Economy baby..it's the doctrine. Everything is doctrine.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 May 2011 13:38

Gagan wrote: China is more than scared about Pakistan (ISI) using its leverage with the Uighur separatists. The ISI has allowed them to be trained at their Jihadi camps. Sooner or later (expectedly sooner) the pakistanis will be using them as leverage against china.

shravan wrote:Syed Shahzad: Pakistanis concerned their country has become a proxy battleground between extremists and the US. Splits in Pakistan's Military Over New Agreement to Cooperate with US

[youtube ]PmTM6gyHxbo[ /youtube]

There is a connection between these two views.

If we go back to
"me against my brother"
"me and my brother against our cousin"
"me, bother and cousin against neighbour"
"me, brother, cousin and neighbor against next village"

What Islam did was ad the line: me, brother, cousin and neighbor, next village against the infidel" (dar ul Islam vs dar ul harb)

Let me classify these fissures for convenience:
Fissure A: People in a Sunni tanzeem will fight each other (me against my brother/me and my brother versus cousin)
Fissure B. Sunni tanzeems will unite to kill shias and ahmedis
Fissure C: United tanzeems, shias and ahmedis will unite to fight the infidel" (dar ul Islam vs dar ul harb)

The erstwhile "Great" Britain, and now the USA have utilized all these fissures.

Fissure A: Sunni versus Sunni was used to break the Turkish caliphate. The Saudi Royal family was one of the results of this - as was the relationship of Jordan to Britain.

Fissure B: Shia Persia has been balanced against the Sunni Arabs. Jews too have been put in there as a third weight.

Fissure C: Iran and the Arabs both technically oppose each other but are united in opposing Israel.

Pakistan was another product of British empire that was technically Fissure C - "United tanzeems, shias and ahmedis will unite to fight the infidel". But once infidels were eliminated from Pakistan, Islam reverted to fissure B (Sunni tanzeems will unite to kill shias and ahmedis). And having sidelined the minorities it is now back to Fissure A - internecine warfare. But the fact that all of them would unite to fight India (or the USSR) was very convenient for the west.

Right now Pakistan is fluctuating between an anti-US fissure C or back to fissure A if there is no US influence.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 May 2011 13:40

Prasad wrote:But the chinese aren't the soft-handed indians in kashmir. They will bulldoze dozens of towns together if they have to, to remove the problem. And will still come to the table to gubo the isi.

The Chinese have that reputation at least among BRFites. But why then does the CPC stii shiver in its pants regarding the Uighurs?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 22 May 2011 13:51

shiv wrote: Pakistan was another product of British empire that was technically Fissure C - "United tanzeems, shias and ahmedis will unite to fight the infidel". But once infidels were eliminated from Pakistan, Islam reverted to fissure B (Sunni tanzeems will unite to kill shias and ahmedis). And having sidelined the minorities it is now back to Fissure A - internecine warfare. But the fact that all of them would unite to fight India (or the USSR) was very convenient for the west.

Analysis of rare quality...

May the search for purity go on..

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 22 May 2011 14:05

Gagan wrote: The Chinese can't withdraw from Pakistan, because to do so will mean no control over the uighurs and the ISI. Being involved will mean a financial and political drain on China

The considerations for China are very different and hence the calculations and results too would be different.

Unkil is worried about Pakbarian nooks partly only because they can hit some western interest (read WASP concentrations) which is a very remote possibility but mostly also for human reasons - about India being hit which is a much more realistic possibility. China has no such considerations. It gives a s..t if Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai are all hit. It sees India as a threat, not a place to sell Cokes, French fries and Boeing planes to.

Uighurs have been tamed, ISI can do zilch not without enormous costs anyway. It knows its trustworthiness is about as high as the virginity of a whore. So that consideration does not apply and is only for media consumption...being a state with almost all economic centers 101% han chinese, they can spot a Uighur from ten miles and kill him before he can detonate anything...impossible in the west or India. That will remain true even if China becomes a democracy.

China will give up on Pakbaric animals if and only if India raises costs (real costs + opportunity costs) to a point where it makes no sense. And if that does not work anyway...as is happening now to some extent. We are running a close race despite all this 30 years of strategic depth and spoke-in-wheel tactics. With Beijing puppets biting dust and becoming irrelevant, that strategy has even lower chances of success.

One day the balance sheet will look different, until then we just have to wait.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 22 May 2011 15:03

shyamd wrote:China has accepted Paki request to take over Gwadar Port after agreement with SPA expires.

Not so fast. There's a minor irritant called a concessionaire contract with Singapore which runs to the year: 2047

But the statement was silent on an important point: whether China will wait till 2047 for taking over the port. According to the concession agreement between Gwadar Port Authority (GPA) and PSAI-AKD group, signed on Feb 6, 2007, the arrangement will be valid for 40 years.

Tiny Singapore didn't get to where it is today by being fooled by upstarts like the pakis. Watch the PSAI-AKD now demand their pound of flesh if the pakis want to renege on the contract.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 22 May 2011 15:38

Anup and Suppiah ji..some of your posts really make my day

Not so fast. There's a minor irritant called a concessionaire contract with Singapore which runs to the year: 2047

Minor..yeah

On the China-Pak thing, increasingly the Chinese card against India is becoming obvious at least to the 'brightest' of the South Asia experts elsewhere. More focus on the region means India's point also getting across slowly. When the attention span in Western Capitals was 3 minutes or less for India's POV, Paki's and Chinese held roost. IMHO that's breaking up to some extent. India and China's rise is obvious. There's too much published on that too across the media that aam Joe and Hilda in Germany or Iceland is aware China and India will be right up in 20 years or less. It's for them to decide whom to pitch their tent with. The choices are:

1. Secular, Pluralist, Democratic value systems: India (Dharmic Bloc) +
2. Totalitarian, Authoritarian and Militaristic China + NK+ Pakistan (Adharmic Bloc)+

It's for the West to decide which bloc it wants to be and invest there. I doubt public opinion in the US will allow it to join bloc 2. The result in the fight between Dharmic and Adharmic is already known to those who have read BG. China's big tussle now is to claim a pie in the Dharmic fold using adharmic means by suppressing Tibet, claiming AP and ultimately occupying Nepal and Bodh Gaya. JMT/

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 22 May 2011 16:11

anupmisra wrote:
shyamd wrote:China has accepted Paki request to take over Gwadar Port after agreement with SPA expires.
Not so fast. There's a minor irritant called a concessionaire contract with Singapore which runs to the year: 2047

But the statement was silent on an important point: whether China will wait till 2047 for taking over the port. According to the concession agreement between Gwadar Port Authority (GPA) and PSAI-AKD group, signed on Feb 6, 2007, the arrangement will be valid for 40 years.
Tiny Singapore didn't get to where it is today by being fooled by upstarts like the pakis. Watch the PSAI-AKD now demand their pound of flesh if the pakis want to renege on the contract.

Well pakis being pakis think china will pay the $20 million to PSA as penalty for reneging the contract of GPA with PSA! mm and just yesterday we heard shorter then mole hill and shallower then puddle friends declare " China, as part of its policy, does not "give hard cash as financial assistance to any country".

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 22 May 2011 16:14

More than us, US will be more worried about PRC getting a base in Gwadar. We better hurry up with those subs.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 22 May 2011 17:20

shyamd wrote:More than us, US will be more worried about PRC getting a base in Gwadar. We better hurry up with those subs.

See, the pakis never think "long term". I bet they did not think this "Gwadar offer" through to its logical end result. A simple gaming exercise would have led any half-wit to one consistent conclusion. No one or nation in his/its right mind breaks or renege a global contract, especially if it involves economic powerhouses like the US and Singapore. It is considered bad karma. China has too much to lose. Chinese will be the last ones to peeve off Singapore, not even for a two bit nation like pa'astan.

Till now, all the paki actions have been knee-jerk and short-term oriented. Case in point: Gillani rushing off to Beijing like a miffed six year old who just had his kite cut down away after their virginity had been violated. The Chinese, thankfully, are not that dumb to fall for this "my best friend is my saviour" routine. I bet this "Gwadar offer" was made at a spur of the moment with all that red carpet treatment, wining and dining that groper received in China.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 22 May 2011 17:23

Nawaz wants to become CIA, RAW agent’
From the mind and mouth of a paki.

PPP Parliamentary leader in the Punjab Assembly Zulfiqar Gondal has alleged that PML-N chief Mian Nawaz Sharif has left the service of ISI and was now trying to become an agent of CIA and RAW by serving their objectives in the country.

Gondal further alleged that the Sharif brothers would now collect donations from CIA and RAW on whose behest they were now attacking the ISI.

Very charitable.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 May 2011 17:33

^^^Agreed.

If PRC does make moves on Gwadar, then unkil's Indian ocean dominance gets seriously threatened. Unkil, with or w/o Delhi will pump up the Baloch resistance to levels unacceptable to PRC. That's just 1 arrow in unkil's quiver, lawd knows what else is in store.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 May 2011 17:38

abhishek_sharma wrote:THE U.S. AND PAKISTAN: THE THIRD DIVORCE?: Teresita and Howard Schaffer

^^^^
Angry over the violation of its sovereignty and the public embarrassment of its army, Pakistan will follow its classic pattern of treating the United States as the supplicant in the relationship. It will again reason that since the United States needs Pakistan more than the other way around, Pakistan can set the rules of engagement.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 May 2011 18:15

Hari Seldon wrote: If PRC does make moves on Gwadar, then unkil's Indian ocean dominance gets seriously threatened.

I have not figured out exactly how this will happen. I believe the Chinese in Gwadar will be under serious threat, not the other way round. At Peacetime they are welcome to use any port. In case of war any land route to Gwadar will be sent to houriland and the port will be put out of action and Chinese ships in the Indian ocean will be knocked out. Sooner or later.

We have no option other than to be a huge threat to the Chinese. We cannot afford to go around saying that the Chinese "will be a threat". Our options include bombing Gwadar now (out of question), stopping the Chinese from coming to Gwadar in peacetime (how?). The only option is to ready ourselves to kick the crap out of the PLAAN at wartime if need be.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 22 May 2011 18:27

Chinese ships in the Indian ocean will be knocked out. Sooner or later.

Those who wail about the Chinese basing ships in Hambantota (Sri Lanka) or Gwadar (Pakistan) need to take a look at a map and consider the sheer firepower the IAF and IN can deliver to points in the Indian ocean.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 May 2011 18:43

Henry Kissassinger talks to Simon Schama (FT)

Some relevant portions to this dhaga...

Kissinger laughs even as he sketches a scenario for an Afghanistan even grimmer than anything anyone has yet imagined, where the presence or absence of al-Qaeda will be the least of its problems. What might happen, he says, is a de facto partition, with India and Russia reconstituting the Northern Alliance, and Pakistan hooked to the Taliban as a backstop against their own encirclement.

Suddenly, spring goes chilly. The prospect looms of a centennial commemoration of the first world war through a half-awake re-enactment. Not Belgium but Sarajevo. Think proxy half-states; the paranoia of encirclement; the bristling arsenals, in this case nuclear; the nervous, beleaguered Pakistanis lashing out in passive-aggressive insecurity. “An India-Pakistan war becomes more probable. Eventually,” says the Doctor, his voice a deep pond of calm. “Therefore some kind of international process in which these issues are discussed might generate enough restraints so that Pakistan does not feel itself encircled by India and doesn’t see a strategic reserve in the Taliban.” He looks directly at me. “Is it possible to do this? I don’t know. But I know if we let matters drift this could become the Balkans of the next world war.”

Suddenly the irrefutable clarity of his pessimism makes Dr Strangelove look like Dr Pangloss. Around America this week, biblical placards are appearing proclaiming that the world will definitely end on May 21. If they’re right, you won’t be reading this. But if Kissinger is right, they may yet have a chance to move the date back a bit. Don’t say history and Henry Kissinger didn’t warn you.

More pak-appeasement vomit. Why not the obvious course - of bankrupting pak by declaring it a terrorist state and then letting the law take its own course, I wonder.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 May 2011 18:50

Re chinese warships getting whupped by IN & IAF...Oh, I've no doubt and all that.

My concern isn;t so much standalone surface ships as a submarine-base in Gwadar that will over time host SSNs and SSBNs frm the PLAAN. Far-fetched, sure. Possible, though.

A Missile base next to Gwadar can't be ruled out as easily, besides, perhaps.

Also, a generation down, if the base is allowed to come up that peacefully, it might as well host PLA CBGs someday. Perhaps.

Anyway, good to know MoD has probably thought through these issues. Hopefully.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 May 2011 18:57

shiv wrote:We have no option other than to be a huge threat to the Chinese. We cannot afford to go around saying that the Chinese "will be a threat". Our options include bombing Gwadar now (out of question), stopping the Chinese from coming to Gwadar in peacetime (how?). The only option is to ready ourselves to kick the crap out of the PLAAN at wartime if need be.

When China tried to protect JuD in the UN, China threw down the gauntlet at India. As far as terrorism is concerned, all gloves are off!

How about the BLA starting a cottage industry producing and selling handbags from Chinese hides?! If the Dharmics are not willing to go that far, how about the BLA taking a few lessons from the Yemenese, who have made kidnapping Western tourists an industry!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 22 May 2011 19:19

Pak province cancels 6 US aid deals

"We have cancelled six MOUs (memorandums of understanding) with the United States in the fields of health, education and solid waste management," said Rana Sanaullah, law minister of Punjab

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 22 May 2011 19:33

Just got back from watching the movie Thor..when the Feds confront this guy Thor for being violent and hitting elite troops like they are some 'minimum wage mall security guys' he is asked -"You must have been trained somewhere? Pakistan? Afghanistan?..we can find out...we are good at that"

Pakbaric sewer rats' jehadi terrorism and its fertile training ground for violent characters is getting seared into American consciousness and into their DNAs...no way they are gonna wipe that out in our lifetime.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 May 2011 19:39

From the very same Obama interview referenced above:
http://www.modernghana.com/newsp/330036 ... -on-b.html

Andrew Marr:
Our Prime Minister, David Cameron, said recently that the problem was that Pakistan was looking both ways on terrorism. He got into a little bit of trouble for it, but he was right, wasn't he?

PRESIDENT OBAMA:
Well, I think what Prime Minister Cameron understands, as I understand, is that Pakistan has been very obsessed with India. They see that as their existential threat. I think that's a mistake. Part of what we're trying to do is to talk to them about how they can reorient their strategy so that they understand that the biggest threat to Pakistan and its stability is homegrown. And that if we don't go after these networks that are willing to blow up police stations, blow up crowds of people, assassinate Pakistani elected officials with impunity, if they don't get a handle on that then they're going to see a significant destabilization of the country.

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 22 May 2011 19:49

Suppiah wrote:Just got back from watching the movie Thor..when the Feds confront this guy Thor for being violent and hitting elite troops like they are some 'minimum wage mall security guys' he is asked -"You must have been trained somewhere? Pakistan? Afghanistan?..we can find out...we are good at that"

Pakbaric sewer rats' jehadi terrorism and its fertile training ground for violent characters is getting seared into American consciousness and into their DNAs...no way they are gonna wipe that out in our lifetime.

Yes!! Since the movie came out a week after the OBL raid, there was a loud chuckle around the movie theater where I was watching it. Needless to say, my laugh was a bit more than a chuckle...it was more like a ROTFL...

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 22 May 2011 20:13

"You must have been trained somewhere? Pakistan? Afghanistan?..we can find out...we are good at that"

Americans really have a special thing going foe their SF etc. Hollywood has played it up too. They need a bogey where they play the good cop vs someone of ability, TFTA training and wipe them out. USSR provided the ultimate TFTA enemy. Now they've to make do with the Chinese or the Paki/ Afghan types. It's some sort of macho sociological need in the society..nothing more really to be read into it.

Well, I think what Prime Minister Cameron understands, as I understand, is that Pakistan has been very obsessed with India.

This is interesting as it implies Obama is trying to deeply understand the issue here of Pakiness. This is the first time really an American Prez has been so blunt directly. He is not talking about a 'rivalry', he is plainly taking a side in the sense saying it's Paki paranoia. Obama doesn't come to this without a much deeper understanding of the Kashmir issue, including the plebiscite fiasco created by Paki paranoia and adventurism..But there's more just a bit more to go..that is not Paki existentantialism that the Paki's are worried about, but that they have not got Mughalistan. That's what they want really.

It's India existing and doing well or India's existentialism that drives the Paki mind paranoid. This mindset cannot be cured unless Obama does a press conference and announces the US recognizes Mughalistan and Pockroachistan is the rightful hier to the cunning urine drinking Baniya Hindu. Only that will provide some temporary relief from the prevailing shizophrenia. It would have to be ofcourse backed up step by step. Handing Kashmir on a platter. Giving Paki's a seat in UNSC under Mughalistan, a Civilian Nuclear deal, placing India under NK like sanctions till it accepts the reality of Mughalistan..and so on.

Now the above looks a bit problematic at this stage to accomplish for the US. But if one thinks a bit, the above highly ludicrous situation may have backers. In China at least. The US has been really a bad ally because it has not even delivered step 1 of the schizophrenic cycle: Kashmir, while making their TFTA soldiers fight their wars and picking Osma's up from within highly guarded cantonment areas in the Capital. That is what is the trust deficit that's in the Paki mind. That's why this diseased mind thinks it's alright and justified to create terror in India, kill and maim innocents and if India does respond, threaten it with armageddon.

Having poured over the internet and google chacha i find no cure for this except one very easy one: Dismantling the Pockroach state gently bit by bit. A non paranoid stable Pakistan is not possible to exist. Common Obama you're just a step or two away from the realizing the truth..you're there but not just yet as one makes out by this..

if they don't get a handle on that then they're going to see a significant destabilization of the country.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 22 May 2011 20:44

US cable: Gulf countries fund Pakistani militancy http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 509315.cms

ISLAMABAD: A U.S. diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks says donors in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are sending an estimated $100 million annually to radical Islamic schools in Pakistan that back militancy.

The cable says the donations have been made ``ostensibly with the direct support'' of the Saudi and Emirati governments. The schools target poor boys in southern Punjab province for indoctrination and send some of them off to military training to fight against the Pakistani government and the West.

The cable was written in November 2008 and was based on local government and nongovernment sources. It was published Sunday by Dawn, one of Pakistan's most respected English-language newspapers. Dawn received more than 4,000 such cables in a deal with WikiLeaks.

saip · Post by **saip** » 22 May 2011 21:02

Who says Pakis cant make great products? I say there is a great market for aircraft modellers, effigy creators and flag makers in porkiland!

http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/21/the-esta ... -lies.html

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 May 2011 21:10

Kiyani & Paasha & Co must be seeting with anger as Obama repeats his threat of puncturing their ethch&dee should another high-value target like MO be found. As RamanaGaru predicted, I expect TSP to do some major guboing, perhaphs they might even sacrifice MO. They need to do this before their etch&dee plummets to a level that even us SDREs who now cower before their terrorist threat and nuke blackmail might actually show some spine in tackling this terrorist abomination instead "we will meet TSP more than halfway" or "India's & TSP's destinies are linked" or "India cannot progress without piss with TSP" etc etc.

harbans wrote:
"You must have been trained somewhere? Pakistan? Afghanistan?..we can find out...we are good at that"
Americans really have a special thing going foe their SF etc. Hollywood has played it up too. They need a bogey where they play the good cop vs someone of ability, TFTA training and wipe them out. USSR provided the ultimate TFTA enemy. Now they've to make do with the Chinese or the Paki/ Afghan types. It's some sort of macho sociological need in the society..nothing more really to be read into it.

Interesting civilization outlook. I get tired of listening to Americans talk about "bad guys" and the need for us "good guys" to take them on and "save" the world. "Liberal" MSNBC host Chris Mathews once broke down into tears when he said how we "good guys" take on the mantle of taking out the "bad guys", citing World War II, Bosnia etc. Its as if existance of "bad guys" is a given or actually needed. You see the horrors that abound starting with such a premise because if there are no "bad guys" per se, you just need to invent some, and then undertake an Abbottabad type raid either literally (the occasional instance where there is indeed a bad guy that needs to be taken out, never mind the bad guy was once a "good" guy

) or figuratively, to triumph over the "bad guys" and "save" some souls.

Contrast that with us SDRE thinking, how do I look within to better myself. In other words, existance of bad guys is not a pre-requisite because you yourself might be imperfect and need to strive for that perfection.

saip · Post by **saip** » 22 May 2011 21:13

Deleted. Looks like this this is a late April 1 joke.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 22 May 2011 21:27

Sorry if discussed already.
Deadly Nato tanker explosion in Pakistan

A Nato oil tanker has exploded in northwest Pakistan, killing at least 15 people, say officials.

Police said the tanker, transporting fuel to Nato forces in Afghanistan, was hit by a bomb overnight near the town of Landi Kotal in the Khyber region.

People gathered to collect spilt fuel when another fire broke out, said one senior police official.

At least 14 other Nato tankers were damaged in a separate attack nearby, at the Torkham border crossing.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 22 May 2011 21:27

deleted for now