Evil evil, Surya!!!Surya wrote:any long rod discussion needs the pictures of the "long rod ' ammo of Tin can and long rod ammo for Arjun\others

Evil evil, Surya!!!Surya wrote:any long rod discussion needs the pictures of the "long rod ' ammo of Tin can and long rod ammo for Arjun\others
Sigh... This discussion has already descended to "mine is bigger than yours" level?? ...Surya wrote:any long rod discussion needs the pictures of the "long rod ' ammo of Tin can and long rod ammo for Arjun\others
So, Indiastrategic, run by Col Gulshan Luthra, rtd. is also a blogger and fanboy assessment?Austin wrote:I really have no intention to beat on that because there is no official result of the trials , all we have is bloggers and fan boys assessment and you know that former has been proven wrong and latter will never change.
New Delhi. The Indian Army will soon place orders for 124 additional Arjun main battle tanks (MBTs) to boost its firepower after the tank outperformed the Russian-built T-90 tanks in the recent grueling trials in Thar desert.
Lets see what the MOD official spokesperson, Shri Sitanshu Kar said after the T-90 versus Arjun trials.Sources present at the site of the trials told India Strategic “the tank outgunned the T-90s by 30 percent in nearly hundred parameters compared by the user (the Army).”
Its fairly obvious what the results were of the showdown, even if you don't wish to acknowledge them.“After many years of trial and tribulation it has now proved its worth by its superb performance under various circumstances, such as driving cross-country over rugged sand dunes, detecting, observing and quickly engaging targets, accurately hitting targets – both stationary and moving, with pin pointed accuracy.
“Its superior fire-power is based on accurate and quick target acquisition capability during day and night in all types of weather and shortest possible reaction time during combat engagements,” Kar added.
This is wrong! The remaining T-90 and T-72 ammo is distributed all over the turret and drivers compartment. In fact, instead of being in armoured containers, like on the Arjun, there are just open attachments for the two piece ammo all over the tank. Effectively, half the rounds are scattered all around these T series tanks, making them that much more dangerous. In case of Arjun, ammo is split across two locations but in case of these two tanks, the ammo is all over, making the likelihood of a penetrating round hitting these exposed rounds that much more likely.The T-90 can carry 22 rounds in Underfloor autoloader ,the rest are just stored in the turret where its vulnerable after penetration.
Reason for IA to cancel the Arjun orders ... now a new improved T-90AM is available ... IA will order another 1,000 unitsAustin wrote:...
The T-90AM solves it using rear turret bustle auto loader which can fire longer rods.
The T-90 M or AM may be the best tank in the world but it is not relevant to this discussion since the IA has no plans to acquire it. It seems tincan lovers conveniently keep forgetting this fact whilst coming up with the same arguments over and over again.Austin wrote:most people who have analysed pic of T-90AM believe it can carry long rod in rear turret bustle auto loader , well we will come to know when they make it public in September.rohitvats wrote:As for long rods - that is another myth till we see a long rod.
thats if you have not got your hands mangled in the cramped confines with that autoloaderThe autoloader has to be used, and the round chosen if its in a particular location, needs to wait for the carousel to rotate once it gets it. Once the 22 rounds are over, the crew have to painstakingly manually reload the autoloader will all those rounds scattered all across the tank
Its his personal views any one who can blog can claim his sources gave his x or y info, so you have to leave it there.Karan M wrote:So, Indiastrategic, run by Col Gulshan Luthra, rtd. is also a blogger and fanboy assessment?
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories623.htm
I think it has been mentioned that Arjun has no blow off panels , AFAIK only Abrams 2 has blow off panelsIn the Arjun, the crew can make the conscious decision to either use up the hull ammo first (given turret has a blow off panel) or the hull ammo, depending on what they wish.
That was D_berwal's claim which u are parroting ....Austin wrote:
I think it has been mentioned that Arjun has no blow off panels , AFAIK only Abrams 2 has blow off panels
, any ammo in hull or turret will end up with the same result after penetration as T end up with , but not before killing or badly injuring the crew.
from what I have read the only tanks with all ammo storage isolated and equipped with blow off panels are M1 series, other tanks would suffer the same catastrophic failure as T series if penetrated , western tank are slightly better then T's as far as safety goes linkMisraji wrote:That was D_berwal's claim which u are parroting ....
Leopard 2, Merkava, Leclerc all have blow-off-panels.
So does Arjun ...
Its amazing that you wouldn't even google for such a basic fact and accept somebody else's word just because it suits your world-view...
~Ashish.
I see, so two rtd Army guys, Ajai Shukla & now an entirely unrelated Gulshan Luthra categorically point out the Arjun slammed the T-90, and all you can come up with is "personal views"? You have the MOD spokesperson say the Arjun has superior firepower etc, and thats "personal views"..Austin wrote:Its his personal views any one who can blog can claim his sources gave his x or y info, so you have to leave it there.
All this says is that your better known names whoever they are may not be as better known as you think they are. In contrast, Gulshan Luthra was writing about Indian Armor when 99% of indian defense mags did not even exist and all these well known names were beginning their so called journalism. He ran a think tank after his retirement from the Army. And all you have to say about this, is call him a "known blogger", which he is anything but & claim he wrote that article for eyeballs when he has hardly publicized that article. IndiaStrategic, whether you admit it or not, has a record of fairly credible information on a variety of topics.I tried to inquire from some better known names on the result of trials and all say the army and MOD has classified the trial result and is tightly guarded , hence I am skeptical on what known bloggers has to say , they are saying things that would give them and their website more eyeballs.
Sorry but here you are just quoting d berwal's rubbish. The Arjun turret ammo clearly has a blow off panel, located directly above the ammunition rack.I think it has been mentioned that Arjun has no blow off panels , AFAIK only Abrams 2 has blow off panels
, any ammo in hull or turret will end up with the same result after penetration as T end up with , but not before killing or badly injuring the crew.
Austin ... Kindly google it up. Name of the tanks that I have given AND the term "blow off panel".Austin wrote:...
from what I have read the only tanks with all ammo storage isolated and equipped with blow off panels are M1 series, other tanks would suffer the same catastrophic failure as T series if penetrated , western tank are slightly better then T's as far as safety goes link
T-90 or 80 does not have blow off/out panels
Power of Google is Awesome!Misraji wrote:
That was D_berwal's claim which u are parroting ....
Leopard 2, Merkava, Leclerc all have blow-off-panels.
So does Arjun ...
Its amazing that you wouldn't even google for such a basic fact and accept somebody else's word just because it suits your world-view...
~Ashish.
This is some thing that confuses me. What is discribed as the CITV has been present on the Arjun for since at least 1999 if not earlier. The DRDO brochure from Def expo 99 should show that equipment on the tank. Hell it is present on the T 90 as well, (Mission army Armour episode confirms for both.) If you look at the Tank Ex you will see the same equipment present on it as well.Austin wrote:BTW is the image of Arjun correct because it talks of Commander
Panoramic Sight ( CITV) when we know this feature will come only with
Mk2 options.
IIRC, the 1996/97 GSQR of the IA had made the Blow off armour panel the bottom line requirement for the Arjun. It was included as one of the 10 improvements that had to be made in the Vehicle, if it was to see service in the IA in any number.Prasad wrote:Can chacko just call HVF Avadi and ask them if the Arjun has blowoff panels? Should settle things once and for all?
in the first couple of rows of this link, you can see it -Austin wrote:I do not see CITV in this image link , it seems only the Gunner has a TI in hunter/killer mode , while the commander lacks CITV , hence Mk2 will have it for the commander
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/mbt.htmlPanoramic Sight for Commander
Commander's panoramic sight enables the commander to effect an all round surveillance in the battlefield without removing his eyes from the sight and without being disturbed by the turret motion. The field of view is stabilized with the help of a two axes rate gyro-mounted on the platform of the head mirror. The sight offers dual magnification.
Oh! that is what it is called?pragnya wrote:Austin,
this is what drdo site says -
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/mbt.htmlPanoramic Sight for Commander
Commander's panoramic sight enables the commander to effect an all round surveillance in the battlefield without removing his eyes from the sight and without being disturbed by the turret motion. The field of view is stabilized with the help of a two axes rate gyro-mounted on the platform of the head mirror. The sight offers dual magnification.
I can do that, but, I want to receive the info in writing. So I have kept a request.Prasad wrote:Can chacko just call HVF Avadi and ask them if the Arjun has blowoff panels? Should settle things once and for all?
Its more to do with generation of technology and more capable FCS.Singha wrote:it may be daytime and image intensifier nighttime only, not a true "3rd gen" thermal sight.
secondly also needs backend integration to tie in the gunnery system and gunners TI into the 2nd TI and have the commander able to designate fresh targets for the gunner maybe.
IIRC, there is no CITV of any generation on the Mk1. The commander has a panoramic sight without thermal imaging capability and the Gunner has the Thermal sight just like what is shown in that picture above.d_berwal wrote:
MK1 has a CITV but limited in functionality and now a generation and half behind.