Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 8, 2011

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 May 2011 16:01

asgkhan wrote:

People carry the casket of the Navy's fire fighter Javed Iqbal, wrapped in the national flag, who was killed in a militants attack on a naval aviation

Wonderful photo, damn I wish there was a high resolution one, I would have made it my wallpaper.

Cool it brother.

Let's not go that far.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 25 May 2011 16:02

"A small young man with a light beard who later dropped his M16 for two Uzi submachine guns. He was particularly deadly - he killed one soldier with a single shot at over 600 yards."

After reading this I am bit skeptical whether this attack was planned by TTP. They have not hinted of such highly professional capability in last many attacks. This was like special task force commando type raid. Doesn't look like TTP style of working.

Am I missing something here?

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 May 2011 16:08

Unkil had some haath in this since POTUS/Amriki media seems deadly quiet on this issue?

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 May 2011 16:11

Another version pops up now:
Pak suspends navy base commander after Taliban attack

Details about the attacks appearing in the local media suggest that two militants facilitated four members of the suicide squad entering the naval base. The facilitators fled after the four militants entered the base, Geo television reported.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 25 May 2011 16:13

abhijitm wrote:
"A small young man with a light beard who later dropped his M16 for two Uzi submachine guns. He was particularly deadly - he killed one soldier with a single shot at over 600 yards."
After reading this I am bit skeptical whether this attack was planned by TTP. They have not hinted of such highly professional capability in last many attacks. This was like special task force commando type raid. Doesn't look like TTP style of working.

Am I missing something here?

Could be a group of disgruntled SSG commandos who have crossed over to TTP, recall that the SSG HQ in tarbela was attacked by a SSG commando turned suicide bomber.

Links to that incident
Pakistan's newest threat: Army officer turns suicide bomber http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/sep/14raman.htm
September 14, 2007 12:17 IST

Ex-soldier, brothers held on Tarbela attack suspicion http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2007_pg1_7

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 May 2011 16:57

And, now its "we in South Asia" strategy...Wishful thinking drivel by Dr Mubashir Hasan
Opportunity in South Asia

THE current politico-economic-security situation in South and Southwest Asia presents a long-awaited opportunity for India and Pakistan to work towards establishing, on a long-term basis, peace and democracy in the region. The opportunity arises out of the global warlike situation.

In the ongoing global war, on the imperial side is the sole superpower along with its western allies and its client elites in other nations. Opposing them are the impoverished, dispersed and unorganised peoples in Third World countries..

Scattered groups in many countries are also involved in throwing bombs, igniting suicide jackets and IEDs against the imperialists and their allies.

A hatred for America replacing the centuries-old hatred for imperial powers is the principal common factor among the have-nots. MY enemy is now your enemy by default

Today, the nations of South Asia, the peoples with a thousands-of-years-old culture of peace and tolerance, having a rare record of imperial ventures outside the subcontinent are being called upon to take fateful decisions.

Why should the countries of South Asia be helping the imperialists in their war of terror in which the rules of war are not observed, the UN Charter is violated, the International Court of Justice is not recognised, human freedoms are suppressed?

A small minority has chosen terror as its weapon. On the whole, the forces of the people are getting stronger leaving no way out for the imperialists except for the use of greater and greater violence, reprehensible tactics of shock and awe.

India and Pakistan should stay away from helping the US and its allies and also stay away from helping their opponents using terror as a weapon.

India and Pakistan and other countries of South Asia need to join hands in removing oppression, deprivation and poverty from their polities and wipe away the feelings of helplessness and frustration found in the overwhelming majority of their populations.

And, the finale:

The current initiative by India to resume talks with Pakistan is a good omen. It might be indicative of the realisation on India`s part that a joint stand with Pakistan is a better way to deal with the serious internal and external problems the region is faced with. Pakistan will have to show exceptional understanding, fortitude and patience. The debris of 63 years of failures will take time to be cleared.

Hasan makes Lenin and Mao proud. Calling all WKK and JNU jhola bearers.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 25 May 2011 17:03

TFT this week has the scoop on what really happened in pns mehran. Apparently pasha calls one of the tft journo's a mixture of raw and cia. Lol. Serious heart burn for TSPA

I think ISI want to blame saif al adel for this incident.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 May 2011 17:07

Have been reading a lot of theories on this attack.

What struck me as peculiar is that for a standoff which was supposed to have gone on for so long the number of people going off on a date with their 72s seems suspiciously small. Surely there were a lot of people at the base given its sprawling nature and the fact that they seem to even have a marriage reception hall inside? Must be a lot of civvis as well a fauji types there.

Instead it seems the sole objective seemed to have been those two planes.

With my CT hat on, I wonder was this a Khan operation because the Chinnis were doing something that was unacceptable with Khan toys? I mean this could be as much a warning to the condom as well as the new condom user, sort of drawing the line on the sand? Could possibly explain the low key US reaction. The low key being the signal to the folks who need to know who is the big daddy?

Any takers of this line of thought?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 May 2011 17:08

shiv wrote: The title of her article is piskologically interesting "Try and see it my way" (I am a white woman, not Pakistani so you might change your views if I speak up for them)

Could merely be Beatles fan.
http://www.delta.ro/beatles/lyrics/pwecanwor.html

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 May 2011 17:16

amit wrote:With my CT hat on, I wonder was this a Khan operation because the Chinnis were doing something that was unacceptable with Khan toys? I mean this could be as much a warning to the condom as well as the new condom user, sort of drawing the line on the sand? Could possibly explain the low key US reaction. The low key being the signal to the folks who need to know who is the big daddy?

Any takers of this line of thought?

This is possible too. However, onions are theirs and they can use theis CISMA type stuff to do the audit and in the process they can pin down Chinnis.

Regarding uncle's silence, I agree to the theory that uncle is shell shocked. Really shocked at the possibility of Nukes being taken away by jihadis from Paki locations by means of using a 10 to 15 member jihadi-swat teams through sewers. This attack may be historic one as most of the capital cities will be modelling to counter Paki-JDAM.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 25 May 2011 17:45

We can straight away discount Unkil launching such an audacious attack on its 'ally''s military base. Any casualty or capture would negate the upper hand US has gained since OBL's killing. If they were so concerned about pandas meddling with Onions, US could easily withhold the next tranche of payment, refuse to upgrade the remaining Orions and 'stuxnet' a whole of things in Paki arsenal. That leaves us with 3 possibilities :

a) It was a staged attack to keep west,esp. American interested in Pakistan. Pakis are now terribly worried that US will wrap up its Afg adventure soon and will let Pakis cook in their stew. Irate kids sometimes inflict injuries upon themselves to garner attention of their parents, Pakis might have launched a false-flag attack on their own base to show the world how vulnerable their clown jewels are if they dont get money to further militarize.

b) TTP attack : Lets admit it, the 600 yard shot,uzi etc all Paki statements. When your biggest naval airbase is attacked in the heart of your largest city and it takes 18hrs to finish the operation you need plenty of excuses. The aggrandizement of the attackers helps tell tales to mango abdul about "difficulty" of such an operation. Besides, TTP has a history of pulling some spectacular attacks in the past including the one on GHQ.

c) Iran : There are plenty of Sipah-e-Mohammed cadres in Karachi. Iran could have easily trained and armed them, provided them with real time intelligence.

Personally, i am leaning towards possibility (a) because of 2 reasons : 1) No statements/pictures of dead gunmen.They say 4 of them were killed,the usual "they look from NWFP/Afghans/Balochis" statement is missing. Were any of the attackers killed at all ?

(2) Inconsistency in statements including those that came out of China. Was China the secret location that Shuja visited soon after OBL's death ? Was it Panda's idea to spook uncle that it should keep the money flowing else nukes could go to "non-state actors" ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 May 2011 17:49

A_Gupta wrote:
shiv wrote: The title of her article is piskologically interesting "Try and see it my way" (I am a white woman, not Pakistani so you might change your views if I speak up for them)
Could merely be Beatles fan.
http://www.delta.ro/beatles/lyrics/pwecanwor.html

Fits perfectly - but still there is something very personal about "Try and see it my way" as opposed to try and see it this way or "This is how the Pakistanis see it"

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 25 May 2011 17:50

Unkil will never leave pakistan. but will definitely leave afghanistan. pakistan is yet to fulfill its purpose of existence. to act as american dagger against Russia, china and later against India. Russian part is over. now china part will begin. the sino-american cold war on paki soil. if that is concluded favourably, indo-american cold war might start (20-25 years from now). pakjabi soil is today's kurukshetra..

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 25 May 2011 17:52

Was listening to a program in which Shrillin, Haris Khan of .info forum were present, along with some Navy guy.

The Navy guy said that one thing which stuck in my head. He said if all they wanted to do was to attack the P3Cs, they did not need to come in. He said that the entire air-field is visible from a variety of vantage points in the area, and an RPG or some other powered short-range weapon could easily take out the line-up.

The attackers wanted to come in physically and do something specific. I too doubt that the P3Cs were the sole target. And all this "the US did it" theories are bogus too. They do not have to do something so dramatic to disable the P3Cs. They have technicians working there and have many other ways to get rid of the planes.

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 25 May 2011 17:56

Here's another admission of Unkil being ok with India being bled by Pakis. Ms. UnFair herself.

Fair also observed that that the United States dismissed Lashkar-e-Tayiba for years as it posed a threat only for India.
"Pakistan never turned its back on Laskhar-e-Tayiba. Pakistan did a U-turn on its U- turn with the Taliban very early in the conflict, and there were no consequences because we had other preoccupations that did not allow us to have the fortitude that we should have had to be more forthright with Pakistan," she said.

Link

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 May 2011 18:00

After reading through all these reports, as an alternate theory (call it conspiracy or otherwise), this PNS Mehran attack could have been orchestrated and carried out by the BLA. Several pointers: well trained operatives, light skinned / foreign looking, speaking a foreign language along with Urdu, had some insider help (remember the recent move to hire more Baloch into the PA/PN?), and then be able to vanish into the back alleys of K'rachi (isnt Mehran surrounded by low income housing types?). Their main goal could have been to kidnap the Chinese workers (Gwadar fall out?). Taking out the Orions was a bonus and diversionary.

Apparao · Post by **Apparao** » 25 May 2011 18:09

Dunya Tv interviewing abduls on the street post OBL saga and it looks like reality is sinking into them slowly but surely. Must watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=yo ... u_cESHH-x0

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 25 May 2011 18:13

The most notable impression that this attack on PNS Mehran has had is not the destruction of two P3C-Orions, or the possible kidnapping of the Chinese, or simply an attack on Pakistani Military, but that in the Pakistani Military, there are insiders who are not under the control of the Army leadership. That is exactly the impression the Pakistanis wanted to give the outside world in the wake of OBL-killing.

The Pakistani Army wants to prove that they were not sheltering OBL, but rather it was some rogue elements within the ISI.

I haven't heard any other explanation what this attack could have achieved otherwise. The P3C-Orions were replaceable.

khan · Post by **khan** » 25 May 2011 18:21

RajeshA wrote:The most notable impression that this attack on PNS Mehran has had is not the destruction of two P3C-Orions, or the possible kidnapping of the Chinese, or simply an attack on Pakistani Military, but that in the Pakistani Military, there are insiders who are not under the control of the Army leadership. That is exactly the impression the Pakistanis wanted to give the outside world in the wake of OBL-killing.

The Pakistani Army wants to prove that they were not sheltering OBL, but rather it was some rogue elements within the ISI.

I haven't heard any other explanation what this attack could have achieved otherwise. The P3C-Orions were replaceable.

More likely (to me) it is an attempt by disgruntled insiders to force a wedge between the PA and the US. The post raid chatter about the safety of PA's nukes was quite predictable and plays into the PA's deepest fears. If anything will motivate the PA to overtly split from the US, it is fear of loosing their nukes.

This is why you haven't heard anything out of the USG about the raid or the safety of the PA's nukes - they don't want to fall into that trap.

komal · Post by **komal** » 25 May 2011 18:27

RajeshA wrote:The most notable impression that this attack on PNS Mehran has had is not the destruction of two P3C-Orions, or the possible kidnapping of the Chinese, or simply an attack on Pakistani Military, but that in the Pakistani Military, there are insiders who are not under the control of the Army leadership. That is exactly the impression the Pakistanis wanted to give the outside world in the wake of OBL-killing.

The Pakistani Army wants to prove that they were not sheltering OBL, but rather it was some rogue elements within the ISI.

I haven't heard any other explanation what this attack could have achieved otherwise. The P3C-Orions were replaceable.

Not sure what the impression that there are 'rogue' forces in military/intelligence buys Pakistan. That their military/intelligence establishment is so incompetent and infested with rogues would hardly be reassuring to the countries providing Pakistan with arms and money.

It's like a business explaining to shareholders that losses were not due the fault of management but due to rogue employees embezzling money. The shares of the company will drop in price.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 25 May 2011 18:28

FWIW.

Time to re-evaluate U.S-Pakistan relationship
By SEN. CARL LEVIN & SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/55595.html

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 25 May 2011 18:35

Headlines: North Waziristan: 4 rockets strike military camp in Razmak * Peshawar CID Police Station Blast: Death toll rises to 11.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 25 May 2011 18:35

Narad wrote:
asgkhan wrote:
I have the gut feeling that the three bearded Navy momins from the right might have been accomplices in the attacks. fanaticism drips from their pious faces

Arre Nahi Bhai!!! He was involved in the attack... after that instead of running he just changed his uniform.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 May 2011 18:43

vina wrote:A 600 yard shot without specialized equipment of a man sized target is highly improbable.

Typically it also needs very specialized guns and ammunition. For instance the bullets have to be weighed and balanced down to the milligram. The grain of powder are also weighed down to the micro gram. The entire thing is put together by hand and each bullet is measured to precisely fit the weapon and sometimes the shooter.

Also typically a spotter is required to see where the round went and to dial in on the target.

Basically this sort of stuff is not available on the Karachi gun market.

If the TSPian's were smart they would go look at the ammunition boxes in their marksmen schools.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 25 May 2011 18:46

More likely (to me) it is an attempt by disgruntled insiders to force a wedge between the PA and the US. The post raid chatter about the safety of PA's nukes was quite predictable and plays into the PA's deepest fears.

Entirely plausible. Possibly makes the most sense if done. coordinated with TTP for logistics. The anger against US is genuine. Many (lower ranks) are openly rooting for cutting off US aid, something that the PA top leadership desperately needs. Which brings us to another question. Dronacharyas at Shamsi. Who guards them? With Quadrification of Paki society particularly within their armed sections, it is highly unlikely that base is guarded by PA. Probably mercenary firms guarding such runways and strips from where they take off with heavy electronic surveillance.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 25 May 2011 18:49

Theo_Fidel wrote:[
Typically it also needs very specialized guns and ammunition.

someone on twitter said they were using tracer bullets.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 May 2011 18:50

DRONECHARYAS would have a strong batallion of USMC/US army types onsite - with heavy weapons and 1-800 call center support from apaches and A10s based out of afghanistan to fight stronger attacks. outer cordon could be PA - i.e. outside of small arms range from american housing

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 25 May 2011 19:11

Sorry I misread what I posted earlier. There was no role of saif al adel. Only ilyas kashmiri was behind Mehran attack.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 25 May 2011 19:17

shyamd wrote:TFT this week has the scoop on what really happened in pns mehran. Apparently pasha calls one of the tft journo's a mixture of raw and cia. Lol. Serious heart burn for TSPA

I think ISI want to blame saif al adel for this incident.

Yup, I saw the tweets by Ali Chishti too. The part that Pasha wants to hide is what I mentioned last night - a serving TSPN officer was involved and he was actually picked up some time ago but told the "Authorities" specifically about these types of attacks to come.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 May 2011 19:22

shravan wrote:someone on twitter said they were using tracer bullets.

I could very well have been a lucky shot but tracers are sometimes used close up to direct fire from longer ranges.

WRT the young Ms. Fair, who has visited TSP many many times, here is a quite revealing photo of here interaction w/ 'South Asia'..
She does not appear to really be interested in visiting India, though she constantly has opinions on it...

Oddl her dog is named Ms. Oppenheimer of all things. Pretentious amateur now captured by the TSP security state...

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 25 May 2011 19:24

'Schwarzenegger hid sex life as adeptly as Pakistan hid Osama'

http://in.news.yahoo.com/schwarzenegger ... 13728.html

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 May 2011 19:31

Sushupti wrote:'Schwarzenegger hid sex life as adeptly as Pakistan hid Osama'

http://in.news.yahoo.com/schwarzenegger ... 13728.html

Please - this is the Pakistan thread. Schwarzenegger's sex life is of zero relevance to this thread. Who the fck is this guy anyway? Some actor-politician in some country. Post in benis if you like - but not here

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 May 2011 19:34

^^^Sometimes I wonder if our members altered the headline of articles they post. However when I click on the link, it turns out to be no alteration at all!!!!

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 25 May 2011 19:36

IMHO all this Unkil did it, Iran did it, BLA did theories are hogwash...Why would Unkil sabotage planes and supply more, that too at his cost?

If we also assume that these sorts of attacks take a while to plan and execute, even OBL 72-ing cannot be seen as trigger.
It is also wrong to assume the bunnies wanted to take out the Onions because they are involved in some Naval attacks/reconnaissance...bunnies don't have a navy and probably don't know where the sea is. Their karma bhumi is land locked Afghanistan and Pashtun lands. Do the Onions help the drone-acharyas zoom in on bunnies? Perhaps no.

It would be far more bang for buck and perhaps easier for them to take out a few PIA planes perhaps when they are empty like LTTE if they want to keep the 72 count amount the pure low. This is so because other than Pak-barbaric animals who else flies PIA?

They probably fired at Orions because they were standing there inviting attack. Real purpose must have been the dispatch to heaven some of Unkils' repair guys or the Cheenees in that order of importance. Even one or two them killed would have created reams and reams of global coverage for weeks. These days sub-50 casualty blasts in TSP hardly merit any news coverage so the bunnies must be worried. That would also raise the stock of bunny & co amongst the Qadri-s of TSP which is 99% of TSP since kufrs are valid targets for killing.

May be they got outdated info, may be the hostages were whisked out safely...so they decided to go home, try another day another place...some of course 'martyred themselves' as nutty Nation would have put it had it been elsewhere.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 May 2011 19:44

shravan wrote:
Theo_Fidel wrote:[
Typically it also needs very specialized guns and ammunition.
someone on twitter said they were using tracer bullets.

That would be dumb!

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 25 May 2011 19:48

anupmisra wrote:That would be dumb!

Why ?

http://www.dailypioneer.com/340841/Pak- ... -base.html

Dramatic footage on television overnight showed several explosions and tracer bullets zipping through the air.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 25 May 2011 19:48

Pranav wrote:folks, BRF-lingo (such as "Ack-thoo", "cashmere") seems rather out of place for comments on a mainstream site such as foreignpolicy.com .

Not really, Fair claims to speaks/read Urdu pretty well ...and "Ack-thoo" is fairly mainstream .. (or it ought to be

as you don't need a dictionary to understand its meaning)
JMHO

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 May 2011 19:52

Amber G. wrote:
Pranav wrote:folks, BRF-lingo (such as "Ack-thoo", "cashmere") seems rather out of place for comments on a mainstream site such as foreignpolicy.com .
Not really, Fair claims to speaks/read Urdu pretty well ...and "Ack-thoo" is fairly mainstream .. (or it ought to be as you don't need a dictionary to understand its meaning)
JMHO

true - and that occurred to me much later. If Fair reads it - she will understand the sentiment. BTW - OT Amberji - I found and downloaded the Los Angeles primer

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 May 2011 20:40

GD, About the 600 yard shot, how do we even know if its true? Most likely a lot of after action bull by the confused defenders to cover up for their inability to defensd the base.
The story looks like the attackers were TAFTA djinns dressed as Starwars sotrmtroopers armed with Uzis and M-16s!

By now they should have displayed the captured weapons etc or mug shots like after 26/11.

We have only their reports about them being Uzbeks etc. What if they were TSPA/PN commando dissidents?

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 25 May 2011 20:41

jrjrao wrote:An astonishngly ack-thoo piece from that new South Asian Paki apologist. What an airhead:

Try to see it my way
BY C. CHRISTINE FAIR

IOW, India==L-e-T.

And which neutral observer would say that India has a declared policy to be a regional "hegemon"? Or that its goal are for "regional domination"? Only nutcase Pakis use such language.

This bimbo is not just empty in her skull -- she is downright evil and dangerous.

Looks like a lot of BRFites have jumped into the comments page. I liked this one

Since we're doing analogies on this ridiculous article, here's mine :

PART 1
There was an elephant that had suffered illness, and was slowly recovering it's strength. It was a peaceful elephant, and didn't trouble the other denizens of the forest.

A wild dog lived nearby, and was always goading the elephant. The elephant had swatted the dog a couple of times, but the dog always came back, barking and foaming at the mouth. The dog wasn't happy that the elephant was getting stronger. In it's view, the elephant's rightful place was to kowtow to the dog (after all, wasn't the dog a friend of the eagle and the dragon?).

Recently this dog had developed rabies and the elephant was wary, but nevertheless confident that if the dog came too close it would get stomped. The elephant just wanted to recover its strength and was confident that soon the rabies would take care of the dog.

Traipsing through the woods comes Christine Fair. She wants to take care of the dog, and keep it happy by hobbling the elephant. In her view, this will be the ideal long term solution, even though the elephant is observing all and getting stronger day by day, and even though her advisors tell her not to get too close to the rabid dog. The dog eats her lunch and defecates all over her books, but does Christine give up...of course not!

PART 2
What part 2? The dog is dead and the elephant is strong. End of story.

Our Foreign Office should maintain a dossier of all such ack-thoo academics and ensure that they, nor their students, ever get a visa for visiting India. Since they are so-called "South Asia experts", they obviously have the need to visit the region and study the geopolitics first-hand. They can visit Pakistan, if they so wish!

Students of South Asia geopolitics have the choice of associating with a prof who will guarantee that they never set foot in India, or with a more reasonable academic whose views will allow the students access to India. This Darwinian process will promote more balanced viewpoints among these folk...just hurt the bad ones and reward the good ones, and the demand-supply equation will take care of the rest.

Singapore does this a lot - ban publications and people that have anti-Singapore views, and provide total access to others. If you think of yourself as a Singapore expert, with real on-the-ground original research, you must never ever have written biased articles about Singapore...simple, no?