Reasons for disastrous situation of Pakistan
Unfortunately, Pakistan is suffering from a disease known as gangrene. The common cause of either wet or dry gangrene is loss of an effective local blood supply to any tissue. Loss of blood supply means tissues are deprived of oxygen thus causing the cells in the tissue to die
Unfortunately, our institutions are also suffering from gangrene and AIDS. When one has gangrene then it is advisable to save the rest of the body. One has to cut of the effected part of the body as there is no other treatment. If one has the finger, legs, hands or any other part of the body and thinks that as this is his or her part of the body and it can be cured then the entire body will get affected with gangrene. Our institutions, say that those that are affected, are our part and have been misguided and can be convinced to return are not aware of the fact that there is no treatment for gangrene. One can only save the institutions by cutting off the affected gangrene parts to save the rest of the body. Now if you cut off the leg then you can still walk with a limp but will certainly remain alive and if not then you will not even be able to walk and also will not survive. If you want to save the institution then drastic and ruthless actions are needed and one has to take the bitter pill.
Therefore, while the AIDS grows and gangrene spreads, we have to cut of the leg or any other part of the body, take the bitter pill for AIDS, strong medication and powerful action, just like in Iran. Don’t spare where in doubt even if 60% has to be cut off but this will ensure the safety of remaining 40% as this will be the neat and clean part. And if not then the 40% will also get affected. We have to decide either to save 40% or loose the whole system. If we can understand this theory then the country can survive.
Host: Mehar Bukhari
Guests: Asma Jahangir, Marvi Memon, Air Marshal. (R). Tanveer Ahmed, Shah Mehmood Qureshi
By using SNP's (single nucleotide polymorphisms)...which can be specific for Uzbeks etc, though I doubt Pakis have those data bases...would have to go to China for analysis.ramana wrote:pgbhat, Thats the problem with TSP. They have so many terrorists that who knows who did what?
Meantime CTs churn away.
A question: How can DNA determine the ethnicity of dead attacker?
It can determine identity of an individual if they have prior sample.
It can determine if the DNA was human or djinn.
But how does it determine ethnicity: Uzbek or Tajik or Chechen?
I recall the Hainan incident clearly, but I still do not buy the CT theory. It was discussed on here in 3 consecutive threads. Pakistan and China are both "Tier III" nations who are not allowed access to certain US technologies. You can guarantee that Orions parked in Pakistan would not have equipment that the US did not want China to see. Yes I have called the Americans stupid. But I don't think they are that stupid. The time spent by the Hainan crew and Geronimo cerw in destroying their equipment at some risk to themselves is testament to the non stupidity of Americans about tech. that they really want to protect. If they hand it to someone else like Pakisatn it means that they are not worried about its being taken.Altair wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident
After reading this,If you still think that it is a conspiracy theory I would drop it.
Altair
The best explanation I have heard is that Chinese GPS malfuntioned and they found themselves in Kraachiramana wrote:Maybe the terrorists were told to attack Jamnagar and shot up Karachi? IOW they were attacking their own base.Altair wrote:
I agree with your assessment that Mehran attackers were classmates of 26/11 attackers. They are well trained terrorists directly under someone like Musharraf.Pasha was telling the truth that they rehearsed Indian targets. If there is going to be an attack on India by their classmates it would be pretty similar.
........
Looks like a grass eating paki, with bad dental hygiene.anishns wrote:Picture of one of the dead Bad talibunny!
http://ummat.com.(pk)/2011/05/25/images/pic-01.jpg
Remove the () in the domain name
Shiv avure,shiv wrote:The best explanation I have heard is that Chinese GPS malfuntioned and they found themselves in Kraachi
The death toll in this demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan at Hangu has climbed to 32:shravan wrote:Hangu blast: over 25 killed, 56 injured, says DPO
A car bomb blast near Hangu DPO office killed 25 people on Thursday. Kohat DIG Masood Afridi said that several houses collapsed due to the explosion. Police sources said that a car carrying 450 kilograms of explosives was used in the blast.
But since old habits die hard, we continued to play our favourite double games, being one with the Americans and at the same time not wholly cutting our various ‘jihadi’ connections. After Osama bin Laden’s discovery and death this has become a difficult act to keep up. Beyond the embarrassment he has caused us, the Sheikh at least has done us this small favour.
So maybe, just maybe, the US invasion of Afghanistan saved us from the destiny towards which we seemed bent on hurtling: the Somalisation of Pakistan, Pakistan becoming another Somalia. Our tragedy was not that we were helpless before the forces of extremism. We were quite capable of crushing them. It was that the most powerful elements of the Pakistani state – and you get my meaning – were themselves getting imbued with the flavour and ideology of extremism. This link between extremism and the state has been sundered, or at least it has come under pressure, because of the American presence in and around us. This is the larger picture, I think. The rest are details.
We keep saying the Pakistani state should change. Our wish-list is long but on its own it won’t come true. Left to its own devices our state and its military machine are incapable of changing, incapable of discarding their most cherished beliefs. The military cannot give up its India-centrism or its expectations of Afghan glory. It will not easily relax its stranglehold on national resources. Moving decisively against the forces of internal religious extremism may be a challenge our governing class may have little stomach to undertake.
So let us thank the furies for Pakistan no longer being wholly its own master. This may be the best thing to have happened to it in recent years, for it opens up a new range of possibilities.
Just as Germany on its own was incapable of de-Nazification, we on our own may be incapable of detoxification. Let us not forget that the subversion of Jinnah’s Pakistan has been our most successful endeavour over the last 63 years. To reclaim that idea, to salvage something from the wreckage of our dreams, we could do with all the help from the stars that we can get. So much for national sovereignty.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... 9356&Cat=9
Pakistan and China have different recollections about their talks...Pakistan says it asked China to build a naval base at Gwadar, a Persian Gulf port. China says the subject never came up.
Need to watch out for this womanabhishek_sharma wrote:C. Christine Fair is totally Paki in this interview
Washington does not care about the fact that India has been mistreating its Kashmiris. India can slaughter
every Kashmiri it wants, and Washington will not care
Sirji, Bakistan is Sooper power onlee, like the USA, with Trillion $ deficits..BijuShet wrote:TSP's deficit hits a new milestone. From "The News"
Budget deficit to climb over Rs1 trn
Documents seized at the compound where Osama bin Laden was killed show that he and his aides discussed making a deal with Pakistan in which Al Qaeda would refrain from attacking the country in exchange for protection inside Pakistan, American officials said Thursday.
And for that I still stand by my theory. Talibanis quite focussed on what it wants and they mean it. its going to problem for pakistanAnujan wrote:P3C attack is most likely by the "Good" Pakistan navy (read "pious") against the "Bad" Pakistan navy (read "whiskey swilling").
The aircraft should not be seen "anti-India" as much as it should have been seen as "Most prized possession of the base" and "Symbol of co-operation with Unkil". If there was a Khushboo which was the most prized possession of the base, it would have been killed. There is no India angle here. The fault with Paki commentators asking such questions as: "Why would they attack a purely anti-India weapon" makes a faulty underlying assumption that the attackers were patriotic in the first place! which is a pile of nandi droppings because patriotic Pakis would not attack Pakistani markets or their armed forces in the first place!
The Yahoos who attacked were sending a message to the Jernails that "We will get in and blow up your most valued possession and you cant do anything about it". Marriott, Onions, GHQ, doesnt matter.
Paki armed forces on the other hand -- to use a tam expression -- are like a thief stung by a scorpion. They cant come out and say that a bunch of fellows are splitting.
We should look deeper what is it that the Paki navy is upto that is causing the pious so much takleef that they are taking special care to blow them up?
She used to have a Terrorist_Paki boyfriend, that is perhaps the reason for her weakness for TSP.abhishek_sharma wrote:C. Christine Fair is totally Paki in this interview
Love Asma Jahangir in this video.... khari baat ki is mohotarma ne....pgbhat wrote:Video ---- Cross Fire 26 May 2011
http://pkinside.com/dunya-news/cross-fire-26-may-2011/Host: Mehar Bukhari
Guests: Asma Jahangir, Marvi Memon, Air Marshal. (R). Tanveer Ahmed, Shah Mehmood Qureshi
The US clearing the way to absolve the Islamic Republic of Pakistan of sheltering Osama Bin Laden?:Anujan wrote:NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/world ... laden.html
Documents seized at the compound where Osama bin Laden was killed show that he and his aides discussed making a deal with Pakistan in which Al Qaeda would refrain from attacking the country in exchange for protection inside Pakistan, American officials said Thursday.
the fact that Bin Laden even considered a truce with Pakistan suggests that he thought the idea might have had some support inside the country’s national security establishment. At the same time, Pakistan could argue that the discussions provided evidence that there was no deal already in place allowing Bin Laden to hide in the sprawling compound in Abbottabad, a middle-class town 75 miles by road from the Pakistani capital.
Except a paki pervert no one else might be boning her so she has to repay the due somehow...Dipanker wrote:She used to have a Terrorist_Paki boyfriend, that is perhaps the reason for her weakness for TSP.abhishek_sharma wrote:C. Christine Fair is totally Paki in this interview
AoA, a member of the Ummah ( even if he is SDRE) refusing to visit the protector of the ummah in his lifetime?Tillakaratne Dilshan, who leads Sri Lanka for the first time against England in Cardif on Thursdayf, has followed up Sri Lanka Cricket's refusal to tour Pakistan in October by vowing that he will never play cricket again in the country.
Dipanker wrote:She used to have a Terrorist_Paki boyfriend, that is perhaps the reason for her weakness for TSP.abhishek_sharma wrote:C. Christine Fair is totally Paki in this interview
How would you know my friend?Dipanker wrote: She used to have a Terrorist_Paki boyfriend, that is perhaps the reason for her weakness for TSP.
.I think he is X-ummah member ! He converted to Buddhism afaik. (OT for this thread though)sum wrote:AoA, a member of the Ummah ( even if he is SDRE) refusing to visit the protector of the ummah in his lifetime?Tillakaratne Dilshan, who leads Sri Lanka for the first time against England in Cardif on Thursdayf, has followed up Sri Lanka Cricket's refusal to tour Pakistan in October by vowing that he will never play cricket again in the country.
Think he is Wajib-u-cattle for this blasphemy...
----The forensic experts of the anti-terrorism wing of the FIA are also not allowed to inspect the arms used by the terrorists, the dead bodies of the terrorists and the route used by the terrorists to enter into the base.
The CC TV footage of PNS Mehran is unavailable as the wires of CC Tv cameras were cut down before the terrorist attack of 22nd May.
According to the officials, “When the investigation begins and the police ask PNS squad for the footage, they were informed that the footage was not recorded due to the slashed wires”.
The investigation team is coming across various problems, so they asked PNS administration for complete cooperation and information, officials says.
CRamS wrote:How would you know my friend?Dipanker wrote: She used to have a Terrorist_Paki boyfriend, that is perhaps the reason for her weakness for TSP.
But apart from that juicy tit-bit, as per RudraJi's contact, she doesn't have much influence except among policy wonks. But I do hear her interviewed and quoted often on NPR. MEA folks definetly need to keep an eye on her, and rebut her poison if there is any traction.
Let us not warn. The more goras die in those cities, the safety index shows that much crime.Eventually it will work. I want more goras to bite dust in those cities.Klaus wrote:The wiki entries for Karachi and Lahore give glowing reports about these cities. Isnt it about time that they are edited to bring out the high risk security situation there? Wiki usually being the first point of contact and opinion forming for aam abduls/ayeshas.
Thanks for posting this Abhishek.abhishek_sharma wrote:Great Article by Mr. Shyam Saran
And there's a jhapad for the Economist as well:What should be of growing concern to India is a parallel argument which seeks to “explain”, and sometimes justify, Pakistan’s long-standing and continued use of cross-border terrorism as an instrument of state policy. In the blizzard of commentary about the OBL affair, there are, invariably, references to the Pakistani obsession or paranoia about a threat from India; that exaggerated or even misplaced as this perception may be, it is, after all, ground reality.
It is argued that the already large and growing asymmetry between India and Pakistan in all indices of power is what Pakistan seeks to address through reliance on cross-border terrorism, as well as augmenting its already significant nuclear arsenal. Without saying that cross-border terrorism against India is justified, nevertheless, it is often asserted that unless India is leaned upon to settle the Kashmir issue, draw down its armed deployment on the India-Pakistan border and reduce its presence and activities in Afghanistan, the US and the West will not be able to persuade Pakistan to abandon its role as a breeding ground for terrorism, which threatens Western interests in Afghanistan and in their own homelands.
It is not what the US and the West have done to alienate Pakistan that is the cause of the latter’s recalcitrance, but Indian “obstinacy.” The fact that the America is the most hated country in Pakistan, that American and Western soldiers are being killed by Taliban forces, aided and abetted by Pakistan, and that US largesse has made no dent in Pakistan’s negative perceptions, are all minimised as contributory factors while highlighting the so-called India factor.
PS: Folks I know I'm preaching to the choir here. However, this is for lurkers who fly by these threads and who may not just click on the link.A view is beginning to crystallise that the way to political settlement and stability in Afghanistan and the amelioration of the fundamentalist and terrorist threats to the West, could be facilitated by persuading India to become invisible in Afghanistan and resolve the Kashmir issue to Pakistan’s satisfaction (for anything less would hardly make a difference). Taken to its logical conclusion, India may have to cut itself into smaller pieces so that Pakistan feels safe! What makes India feel safe or unsafe, and that India, too, may have legitimate security concerns, does not seem to matter. {This is the important point. What makes air heads like C Fair think that once Pakistan got Kashmir in the bag it wouldn't get greedy and then ask for more? Is she then going to say that India needs to give up the lands belonging to the princely state of Hyderabad so that she could sleep easy at night?}
A typical example is the latest issue of The Economist (May 21, 2011) which has the header item, “The world’s most dangerous border.” Remember how during his visit to India in March 2000, President Clinton had used a similar doomsday description of the India-Pakistan border? This formulation is a pernicious one, because its spreads the blame even-handedly on both sides, rather than acknowledge the obvious source of the threat itself. The Economist says, with categorical certitude, that the Americans have made a mistake, “to see Pakistan in the context of the fighting on its north-west frontier, and thus to ignore the source of most of the country’s problems, including terrorism: the troubled state of relations to the East”. Please note the telling phrase “including terrorism”. The article makes another bizarre deduction: “If Pakistan’s world view were not distorted by India, it might be able to see straight on terror”. Really? The Economist’s solution? America should lean on India to “show restraint in and flexibility on Kashmir.”
What a far distance we have travelled, since 9/11 brought a long overdue clarity on the nature of terrorism as an unmitigated evil. What The Economist is suggesting is that we reward Pakistan’s use of cross-border terrorism as an instrument of state policy, rather than make it abundantly clear that terrorists and states that provide safe haven to terrorists risk being drummed out of respectable company and be put on ice as a rogue state. Instead of using “extra clout” on India to make concessions to Pakistan, should not the “extra clout” acquired as a result of the OBL affair be used with Islamabad to compel a change in its behaviour?
The Economist faults the US for its civil nuclear agreement with India, because it “destabilised things in 2008”, heightening Pakistan’s fear of India. Is this any different from Chinese arguments that its decision to build two additional nuclear reactors in Pakistan, in defiance of NSG norms, is justified by the need to maintain a “balance” in the subcontinent?
Great article indeed. Needs to be spread far and wideabhishek_sharma wrote:Great Article by Mr. Shyam Saran
But several things strike me from this article.A view is beginning to crystallise that the way to political settlement and stability in Afghanistan and the amelioration of the fundamentalist and terrorist threats to the West, could be facilitated by persuading India to become invisible in Afghanistan and resolve the Kashmir issue to Pakistan’s satisfaction (for anything less would hardly make a difference). Taken to its logical conclusion, India may have to cut itself into smaller pieces so that Pakistan feels safe! What makes India feel safe or unsafe, and that India, too, may have legitimate security concerns, does not seem to matter.
A typical example is the latest issue of The Economist (May 21, 2011) which has the header item, “The world’s most dangerous border.” Remember how during his visit to India in March 2000, President Clinton had used a similar doomsday description of the India-Pakistan border? This formulation is a pernicious one, because its spreads the blame even-handedly on both sides, rather than acknowledge the obvious source of the threat itself. The Economist says, with categorical certitude, that the Americans have made a mistake, “to see Pakistan in the context of the fighting on its north-west frontier, and thus to ignore the source of most of the country’s problems, including terrorism: the troubled state of relations to the East”. Please note the telling phrase “including terrorism”. The article makes another bizarre deduction: “If Pakistan’s world view were not distorted by India, it might be able to see straight on terror”. Really? The Economist’s solution? America should lean on India to “show restraint in and flexibility on Kashmir.”
What a far distance we have travelled, since 9/11 brought a long overdue clarity on the nature of terrorism as an unmitigated evil. What The Economist is suggesting is that we reward Pakistan’s use of cross-border terrorism as an instrument of state policy, rather than make it abundantly clear that terrorists and states that provide safe haven to terrorists risk being drummed out of respectable company and be put on ice as a rogue state. Instead of using “extra clout” on India to make concessions to Pakistan, should not the “extra clout” acquired as a result of the OBL affair be used with Islamabad to compel a change in its behaviour?
It is a case of darker green vs lighter green. Pak navy's jihadi division decided to send out a message that they can reach out explosively to Pak defence at a time and place of their choosing. Note the reaction of the defence forces banning preachers. There is no cheeni angle, no big bad unkil trying to stop the pakis from screwing around the orions.disha wrote:Do you have a better theory? Note that @40 "persons" are dead and the week is not over yet., major naval base has been attacked to the core and atleast @300 million USD worth of property has been irretreivably lost, and aam-abdul has no idea who runs the law in peshawar. Can you explain to us better?asgkhan wrote:mind boggling to read some of the conspiracy theories peddled here under the guise of analytical thinking.
Expect some biscuits thrown at Kiya nahi and the crore komandoos.g.sarkar wrote:http://www.samachar.com/Clinton-arrives ... ended_news
"(Reuters) - Secretary of State Hillary Clinton arrived in Islamabad on Friday in a surprise visit amid frayed relations with the U.S. nuclear-armed ally after the death of Osama bin Laden."
Gautam
I agree with this viewpoint. The destruction of two Orions is getting a lot more importance than the large number of other issues in the attack and a lot of effort is going to finding explanations for the Orions. This is an important Pakistani military base. It was infiltrated with ease. The Pakistani armed forces responded with their own special forces and the habitual liars admitted that their special forces were pinned down by 6 men for 17 hours and lost 10 men to 4 attackers. For an echandee obsessed nation whose armed forces' morale has been rubbed in the dirt by the Osama raid a convoluted story of how the Orions were key to this attack is unlikely.asgkhan wrote:
Why create dots and connect them unnecessarily sowing confusion ? There is no mega conspiracy or dramabaazi here. Qadrification and wajib-ul-cutlets being served. That's all.