The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev

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Pranay
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 662540.cms

The Baba weighs in with his two annas... need things to be thought through on his behalf.
The yoga guru, to whom the government deputed the topmost tax official to convince him on the steps taken by government against black money, wondered at a press conference in Sehore how top positions like the Prime Minister and Chief Justice of India could be brought under the ambit of Lokpal.

At the same time, he said that he did not want to go into the controversial issue and involve himself in a public debate on that.

Baba Ramdev, who lent support to Anna Hazare in his campaign against corruption when he went on a fast in Jantar Mantar, however, refused to call off his own fast from June 4 till government conceded all his demands.

Reacting to Baba's comments, Arvind Kejriwal, one of the members of the joint committee on drafting the Lokpal Bill, said they would try to convince him about inclusion of the Prime Minister in the Lokpal ambit.

He said probably the yoga guru may not be aware of the full implications of the issue and they would try to convince him why it was necessary.

Kejriwal said if the Prime Minister was kept out of the Lokpal, then there could be ten departments under him which would straight away come out of the anti-corruption watchdog.

Then other ministers can also ask the bribe-givers to pass on all the bribes to the Prime Minister who enjoys immunity. "If the Prime Minister becomes corrupt then nothing can be done about it," he said.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by joshvajohn »

PM declares war on corruption
On its second birthday, UPA-II releases its performance card
Ashok Tuteja/TNS
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110523/main1.htm
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RamaY »

^ from that link
MANMOHANSPEAK

ON CORRUPTION

The issues of governance and corruption have attracted a great deal of attention in 2010-11. Citizens are worried about the state of governance. These are legitimate concerns and the UPA government is determined to take action. We will punish those that are guilty through the due process of law.

The biggest problem is UPA's corruption including the apex body of INC.
ON TIES WITH PAK

Our relations with Pakistan are improving. Recently there have been Home Secretary-level talks and other talks. It is a hopeful beginning. But I can't say, it is prone to accidents
Now the relationship is escalated into Nuclear terror.
ON NAXAL MENACE

We will deal firmly with Left-wing extremism, which is a major problem. But we also recognise that there is a development deficit in the areas affected it and we are determined to address this deficit.
So we indirectly fund Naxal menace thru NREGS. After all they are indians and are BPL when compared to fellow terrorist organizations (who will kill a bus load of marriage party)
ON ECONOMY

There’s need to reduce fiscal and revenue deficits and cut down on wasteful subsidies. The country would look to chart a growth process that was socially inclusive and regionally balanced and energy and infrastructure investments were key to realising this vision.
:mrgreen: Takes the cake as the UPA admin is lead by MMS, PC, MSA and such great e-CON-artists. We will fund more and more NREGS.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... nna-s-fast

M. G. Vaidya (former RSS spokesperson) on the Lokpal Bill...
It is also being portrayed that the Lokpal will be a new despot like Gaddafi in Libya. But the Lokpal’s jurisdiction is limited to the issue of corruption in administration. The Lokpal has no authority to lay down policies in matters of defence or the national economy or foreign affairs. Who has ever doubted that that is the Government’s prerogative? But if all was well with our hallowed Constitution, our sovereign Parliament and our powerful Government, why would there be Quattrocchis, Rajas, Kalmadis, Hasan Alis et al? Why and how were lakhs of crores stashed away in foreign banks? What did our sovereign Parliament fail to stop the ‘adarsh’ abuse of power? I do not wish to suggest that the Lokpal will never err. But there can be remedies like appealing to the Supreme Court. Admitted that a law, however stringent, cannot achieve its goal hundred per cent. But are laws necessary or not? There is a law against thievery. Has it stopped all theft? No. Is that law, therefore, useless? What is a ‘State’, after all? A State exists in law. It works through law. And, in a sense, the state is law, if law means effective rules.
But instituting the Lokpal is not sufficient in itself; it is only one of the many essentials. We have to go to the roots of corruption. We have to address our electoral system—another source of corruption. We have been following the British pattern of first-past-the-post, in which even a candidate getting 30 per cent of the total vote gets elected and flaunts his popularity and claims to represent the whole constituency. There are quite a few options: compulsory voting as in Australia, list system, re-election if no candidate gets more than 50 per cent votes, the Government bearing all the expenses of candidates, auditing of funds of political parties (HD Kumaraswamy, ex JD-S Chief Minister of Karnataka, had the courage to admit that political parties cannot run without corrupt money), direct elections to representative bodies up to state Assembly (but indirect for the Lok Sabha, where the electorate will consist of members of legislatures, municipalities, zilla parishads and village panchayats), right to recall an elected person, its methodology and instrumentality, prohibiting criminals from entering legislative bodies. Let there be meaningful public debate on these issues. And be sure no government will initiate the process; civil society must undertake this onerous task. Let not the enthusiasm generated by Anna Hazare’s penance subside with the formation of the Lokpal. The eternal vigilance of people is the only guarantee of a healthy democratic polity.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by sum »

4 ministers woo Ramdev, but he won't call off fast
Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee, Human Resource Development Minister Kapil Sibal and two other ministers met Baba Ramdev at the Delhi airport on Wednesday in a bid to persuade the yoga guru to call off his proposed fast from June 4 against corruption and black money stashed abroad, activists in
the movement said.

Besides Mukherjee and Sibal, Parliamentary Affairs Minister P.K. Bansal and Tourism Minister Subodh Kant Sahay also met Ramdev, the activists added. Discussions with Ramdev will continue, said Sibal after the meeting.

Ramdev raised serious issues impacting the country and the government will seriously consider then, he said.

The yoga guru, however, said his indefinite fast against corruption will continue and "one crore" people will join him.

Top officials, including Cabinet Secretary K.M. Chandresekhar, were also part of the government team.

The initial plan was for Mukherjee to meet Ramdev at the former's North Block office. However, he rushed to the airport to meet Ramdev, who arrived around noon.
Wow, UPA is so afraid of the baba?
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Muppalla »

Baba Ramdev may be up for usage and probably being projected by a section of UPA to counter the other section which did exactly same with Anna Hazare. I would always take it with a pinch of salt because media has started the propaganda.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Vikas »

Now suddenly baba Ramdev is propped up after AH. Wonder what is the game plan of Kan-grass party.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

For those interested... Baba Ramdev interview coming up now on Times Now...

http://live.indiatimes.com/default.cms?timesnow=1
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Muppalla »

VikasRaina wrote:Now suddenly baba Ramdev is propped up after AH. Wonder what is the game plan of Kan-grass party.
I think this is the chronology:

(1) Large scale power struggle brokeout in INC to upstage MMS. In the series of pitched battled, everyone tried to expose the other and made certain folks like Kalmadi and DMK as scapegoats.

(2) The battles were started with a confidence that they can control using favorable SC judges and completely compromised CBI etc.

(3) The plan did not work out as SC got a new CJ who is adamant on certain things and changed cource on crucial things like appointment of vigilance chief and also took personal interest in 2G case and also CWG case.

(4) Things started going south as everyday became a bad news. Hence accepted JPC to calm down the nerves.

(5) Meanwhile, Baba Ramdev started off impressively with a lot of meetings in the Hindi heartland and was campaigning vigourously against the corruption. Though some infiltration happened, they could not blunt the movement.

(6) Congress party honchos wanted to occupy anti-corruption space. Using NAC members and their supporters they created a new Anna Hazare. Here most of them of anti-development types like Medha Patkar etc.

(7) The persuit was to use Anna Hazare and reduce Baba Ramdev. Media abusing the government is a staged-plan by the congress party and some new term called civil society etc. came into existance.

(8) As things progressed, even using the negotiations for Lok Pal, the pitched battles came back. The target seems to be PMO.

(9) The LokPal is becoming more like a socialistic-zero-development stuff with leanings towards Naxal ideology. They want to check the governance with no real reform that could actually destroy the corruption.

(10) PMO probably understood the gameplan.

(11) PMO started promoting (not prompting) and advertising Baba Ramdev as new messiah of corruption to blunt leftist Anna Hazare.

(12) Baba Ramdev is on his own until now but probably not anymore. Same thing happened to Anna too.

It will be interesting to see whose word will be final and what exactly gets into LokPal bill and other such screw-up/fukc-up bills.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RamaY »

This is all UPA's charade.

AH was a diversionary tactic to undermine BR and to gauge public mood. Now that AH is trapped in perpetual negotiations the focus in on BR.

UPA leaders are calling on BR on their own. When BR meets them, the media is going gaaga over his hand-in-gloveness with the corrupt administration (they didnt make such an accusation when AH met the same list of ministers).

Now it is a test for BR. Can he stand the combine pressure/accusations of UPA and DDM???
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Vikas »

..and the whole battle is about Lokpal who can be as easily manuplated by the Govt in power.
How many ministers / IAS babus did Santosh Hegde catch in Karnataka. This is all eye-wash. We need changes in various places starting right from electoral reforms to Land and Judicial reforms.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Sriman »

VikasRaina wrote:..and the whole battle is about Lokpal who can be as easily manuplated by the Govt in power.
How many ministers / IAS babus did Santosh Hegde catch in Karnataka. This is all eye-wash. We need changes in various places starting right from electoral reforms to Land and Judicial reforms.
Vikas, Santosh Hegde had neither police power nor prosecution power. All he could do is investigate and recommend actions. He did that and the government sat on it. Not only that they hounded the Lokayukta officers who went after the Reddy brothers. A similar role envisaged for the Lokpal in the government's Lokpal bill. Jan Lokpal bill gives a lot of power to the Lokpal. Now whether the post should have such powers is a totally different issue.


Here's a critique of the proposed Lokpal bill on the India Against Corruption site:

http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/critique.html

PS: Agree that comprehensive reforms are necessary.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?723810

A much needed joining of forces, makes the movement broader based, less personality centric and less prone to wedge issues thrown at it by individuals on the government side out to derail this whole process...

Govt Cheated Us, Will Join Ramdev's Agitation: Hazare
PTI | RALEGAN SIDDHI (MAHARASHTRA) | JUN 02, 2011

Accusing the government of cheating civil right activists on the issue of Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare today extended his support to yoga guru Ramdev's fast against corruption and said he will join the agitation.

The Gandhian said that the government lacks intention to root out corruption from the system.

"I will join Baba Ramdev on June 5. The fight is against corruption. The government has tried to cheat us. The government had assured us that they would look into our demand," he said, adding that he would hold discussions with the yoga guru on the way forward.

He said the government has "cheated" civil right activists on the issue of Lokpal Bill and people have realised the betrayal by the government.

"I will support Baba Ramdev so that the government does not do what it did when we were fighting. We will fight together against corruption," he said, adding that "henceforth, we will not be content with oral assurances on the issue of weeding out corruption".

Hazare also noted that the yoga guru has a standing in the public and wherever he goes people gather to hear him.

His remarks came a day after Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee accompanied by Kapil Sibal, Pawan Kumar Bansal and Subodh Kant Sahay held talks with Ramdev yesterday to persuade him to give up his indefinite fast on corruption but the yoga guru said he would go ahead with it from June 4.

Government's efforts to prevent a repeat of a situation that evolved when Hazare-led civil society mounted a campaign for a strong Lokpal in April appeared to have not yielded immediate fruits as Ramdev insisted on "action" rather than "assurances" on the issue of bringing back black money stashed abroad.

Hazare also made it clear that everybody should come under the ambit of the Lokpal Bill.

He said the government was getting its act together now only after Ramdev made it clear that he would start his agitation from June 4.

"For so many days we are demanding (immediate implementation of the Lokpal Bill), why did the government not listen to us? Now the government is running just because time has to come to sit on fast," he said.

"Baba Ramdev has been raising the issue of black money from so many days. Why did the government not think of doing something on the issue? People have now come to know what the intentions of the government are," he said.

Hazare said the fight against corruption will continue till their demands are met.

"Now no more hollow assurances and oral promises. What we want is action and the fight against corruption."

Hazare will be cutting short his trip to Kochi to join Ramdev's satyagraha on Sunday "for some time", sources said.

"Anna was supposed to be in Kochi on 4th and 5th June. However, he decided to cut short his visit and join Swami Ramdev on Sunday," they said.
...and of the jokers on the other side

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?723819
Congress General Secretary Digvijay Singh has attacked Baba Ramdev, who has threatened to go on an agitation on the issue of corruption, dubbing him more of a businessman than a 'sanyasi'.

"Even to teach yoga, he charges Rs 50,000 from those who sit in the front seats, Rs 30,000 for the backseat and Rs 1000 for the last seat. What else is this?" he said addressing a meeting.

The Congress General Secretary said the party was not scared of Ramdev and is holding discussions with him.

"If Congress was scared, Ramdev would have been put behind bars. There is no fear that is why he is out in the open and there are discussions with him," he said.

The party has differed with the government's extraordinary step of rushing four senior ministers to the airport yesterday to talk to the yoga guru.

Congress sources said talks with Ramdev were fine but there was no need to send the ministers to the airport to meet him.
http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?723809
Congress top brass, including Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and party chief Sonia Gandhi, are expected to deliberate today on the situation arising out of yoga guru Ramdev's plans to go on a hunger strike on the issue of black money here from June 4.

A meeting of the Congress Core Group headed by Gandhi is scheduled this evening in the backdrop of apparent differences between the party and the government over the way the issue needed to be tackled.

The Core Group, which generally meets on Friday is meeting a day ahead, reflecting the concern in the party and the government over Ramdev's plans.

Top Congress leaders and senior ministers, including Pranab Mukherjee, A K Antony, P Chidambaram and Political Secretary to Congress chief Ahmed Patel are part of the group which decides on major policy issues.

A meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Political Affairs was held a few days back to discuss Ramdev's fast and Singh had also written a letter to the yoga guru asking him not to go ahead with the fast, promising him to find a "practical and pragmatic" solution to tackle the issue of corruption.

Congress has distanced itself from the government's unprecedented step of sending four senior ministers to receive Ramdev at the airport here in a bid to persuade him not to go ahead with the protest saying it was "unnecessary" and the party has "nothing to do" with it.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Vikas »

Why does AH sound like bitter, clueless foisted sorta leader running clueless. Wasn't he the one who gave deadline till Monsoon session of the parliament and is now going back on fast? Did he realize that he was cashing on the movement generated by BR only before it got hijacked by Jholawala people otherwise how many people would care to know who AH is & what exactly is his claim to fame?

Like I said, Poor Ah is so yesterday now and kangress has successfully deflected all the ho-halla about Corruption. No more FB campigns, no more candle light vigils. All is well and Diggy is also back.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?272086

Baba Ramdev's "Terms of Endearment"... posting in full.

Bharat Swabhiman (Trust), Maharshi Dayananad Gram, Near Bahadarabad, Haridwar -249402

Date 04-May-2011

To:

Dr. Manmohan Singh
Honorable Prime Minister
Republic of India, New Delhi

Sub.: Three (3) demands of Bharat Swabhiman from the central government to eradicate corruption and bring back black money in the interest of nation. (Refer Appendix A)

Dear Shri Manmohan Singh Ji:

Om with love

In a democratic system only the elected government has the power or right to grant main three demands listed in Appendix A of this letter. Therefore the central government is bound to act immediately in a timely and systematic manner to show the whole nation orally and in writing with proof and transparency to do so, and has to clarify steps for its implementation. If the central government did not do so then to eradicate corruption and save the nation we along with millions of citizens of this nation will sit on an “Eradicate Corruption Movement” in an indefinite fast till death in tradition of Mahatma Gandhi using our constitutional and moral rights to fulfill our demands; and at the same time millions of awakened and concerned citizens of this nation will also join this movement in all state capitals and district headquarters. Although our whole movement and public demonstrations will be fully nonviolent and based on true values of humanity but during fasting if anybody suffers bodily harm or loss of life or resulting harm to the nation in any manner then the current central government shall be directly responsible for this.

We fully agree with the honorable prime minister who has previously accepted many times publicly that corruption is the biggest hurdle in the growth of the nation, and it is the root cause of poverty, hunger, paucity, illiteracy and Naxalites, etc. At the same time everybody from the honorable congress president Smt. Sonia Gandhi to the honorable general secretary of congress Shree Rahul Gandhi who claim that they want to eradicate corruption and want to get the nation’s black money back to the nation will seriously consider our demands with full honesty, take an immediate decisive action on our demands in the interest of the nation, and will immediately inform us of their decision. If the government does not take any decisive step to meet our demands to end an economy of corruption and black money from our nation which are raised in the interest of our nation then the nation has to face grave national problems of poverty, hunger, illiteracy, unemployment and resulting over population and Naxalite movement but the most important crucial loss will be our national security. Today China’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is Rs.265 trillion and her external debt is only Rs.18.3. trillions with a public debt of merely Rs.46 trillion, whereas the GDP of Bharat is only Rs.69 trillion. Economically China is five (5) times stronger than Bharat and due to her strong economy and modern military power China can attack India anytime which she has indicated many times in the past; so if we succeed in eliminating corruption and bringing back black money then we will be five (5) times stronger than China. Therefore, to save this nation and make her prosperous we ought to eliminate corruption at any cost and if we do not hear any positive response to our demands within a week then in the interest of the nation we will be compelled to resort to this sit-in hunger strike .

In anticipation of your positive reply.

Yours co-citizen,
(Swami Ramdev)

APPENDIX-A

Three (3) demands

1. To bring back in the nation Rs. 400 trillion (US$ 9 trillion) of black money which is a national wealth.

1.1. Create a law to declare money stashed in foreign accounts as national assets.

1.2. Create a law for foreign account policy where each citizen having a foreign account has to disclose complete information.

1.3 Sign US Convention against Corruption, thus paving way for getting black money back.

1.4 Recall high denomination currency i.e., 500 and 1000 Rupee notes and make 100 Rupee note as sparse as possible.

2. To stamp out corruption fully by enacting stringent laws for a capable Lok Pal Bill which should have three important points?

2.1 It should be able to punish any official irrespective of designation if found guilty.

2.2. Any person should be able to file FIR against corruption and if proofs are provided then Lok Pal should be able to take action against the guilty.

2.3. Once fast track court declares a person guilty of corruption then he or she should be given harsh punishment like death sentence or life imprisonment if corruption involves crores or lakhs of Rupees. It should have provision of declaring all assets of such person as national assets.

3. To end foreign laws, customs and culture prevailing in the independent Bharat so that every Indian can get economic and social justice. We should follow Mahatma Gandhi’s book named Hind Swaraj mentioning that after independence we need to remove British system and adopt Bhartiya system.

3.1. We need to abolish Land Acquisition Act 1984 because by using this Act the government is exploiting farmers. A farmer who is the producer of food is not respected and is getting killed daily by wrong government policies. We need to impose complete ban on genetically modified food which is dangerous for the health of citizens of this nation.

3.2. On the language issue the whole nation is suffering because 99% of people do not know English. When countries like Japan, China, France, Germany, Denmark, Russia, etc. educate their citizens in their own language and produce doctors, scientists, engineers, etc. then why we cannot do so in our own national and native languages. Each of our languages has more words than any foreign language. Why we are neglecting and giving such a low importance to our own languages. Technological innovations and inventions do not depend upon a language, it is a function of human intellect and mind and the world is a witness that Bhartiya’s thinking and mind is one of the best in the world. Language of law, justice, science, engineering, medicine, etc. should be in our national or regional languages then only smart kids of poor people will be able to become scientists, doctors and engineers.

3.3. Why are we given Macaulay’s education system which was created to make Indians as Englishmen and why 34735 laws are created by British still imposed on this nation? Why people of this country are still tortured and humiliated by using those laws in the same way as British used to do.

3.4. When Bharat has given the world physics, chemistry, biology, mathematics, all social sciences, law and justice system, astrology, astronomy, astro-physics, social structure, time –days, years, etc., names of planets, economics, a cultured society and highly advanced philosophy, and spirituality to the whole world then why are we always taught that everything is developed by western world. We ought to give highest preference to our own culture.

3.5. Although democratic system is best in the world but it has its demerits too. Had we not have this faulty law and order system in our country then such a big conspiracy would not have been created, and so much corruption and such a bad condition of our people would not have happened. So those people who are doing this conspiracy in the name of democracy and are looting this nation by corruption, it is imperative to change them and such a system. Funding of election, mandatory voting and electing the Prime minister directly by the citizens of this nation should be there. Thus only honest people will come to power and then only strong democracy and high value parliament will be formed. We want to make it clear that we do not want to change the Constitution of India created by Dr. Bhimrao Ambedkar but want to change the system created by British and still followed. Example Land acquisition act was not created by Late Shri Bhimrao Ambedkar but by the British and so was Macaulay’s education system.
Line item 1.4 being totally impractical... heart is in the right place... needs to think through on implementation.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Vikas »

What about 1.1. whhich is "Create a law to declare money stashed in foreign accounts as national assets."
Sounds like another of those brain-freeze schemes from Indira era.

In fact on closer look, most of them are rhetoric , brain dead and general shrill demands. Nothing concrete or worthwhile.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?723876

From 4 Cabinet ministers rushing to the airport to "greet" Baba Ramdev to ...
Under severe attack over rushing senior ministers to the airport to meet Ramdev, the government is understood to have decided that senior ministers, especially Pranab Mukherjee, will not meet him again for further talks.

Party sources said that Mukherjee will meet Ramdev but it was the turn of the yoga guru and his team to come to him for any negotiations.


The party would not mind ministers like Subodh Kant Sahay, who has good equation with Ramdev, conducting a dialogue, the sources said.

The decision came after serious reservations were expressed by the Congress on yesterday's extraordinary step of holding a dialogue with Ramdev in airport.

The issue was discussed at the Congress Core Group meeting attended by Sonia Gandhi and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and some other leaders this evening.

Senior party leader Digvijay Singh, who has been critical of Ramdev, met Mukherjee tonight and expressed the party's concerns over the issue, the sources said.
and this is the caliber of governance and "crisis management"... :roll:
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Manishw »

Centre sat on CBI report against Dayanidhi Maran

http://expressbuzz.com/nation/centre-sa ... 80258.html
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RamaY »

So PM, MMS, KS are one group. DIggy, RG, I forgot the spokes person are one group. sg, Dhavan, moily, azad, soni types are one group. Where is PC in this?
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Raghavendra »

Written by our own birather, must click :mrgreen:

Baba, here’s a Dummy’s Guide to black money & tax havens http://www.firstpost.com/business/baba- ... 19655.html
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Raghavendra »

Pranay wrote:http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?272086

1.4 Recall high denomination currency i.e., 500 and 1000 Rupee notes and make 100 Rupee note as sparse as possible.

Line item 1.4 being totally impractical... heart is in the right place... needs to think through on implementation.
Not really, Read this post http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1102597

This method could be extended to make local transactions too
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Atri »

Pranay wrote:
Line item 1.4 being totally impractical... heart is in the right place... needs to think through on implementation.
I am in strong favour of recalling 500 and 1000 rupee notes. I have written about it long ago here and on blog. The withdrawal should be staged and not abrupt of course. It should be coupled with rural penetration of banking sector along with making cash transactions above a particular limit (say 5000 OR 10000 rupees) illegal. Any transaction above this limit should be routed via a bank. It is perfectly doable in span of 5 years, if government wishes to.. Nothing impractical about it, IMO.

One should check out the interview by Vishwabandhu gupta

Interview one


Interview two


The economic freedom which Parag Topeji discusses in his book as not come yet when the money is minted by a foreign company in UK. It takes 39 rupees to print one note, be it 10 rupee note, 50 rupee note OR 1000 rupee note. it is profitable to print 1000 rupee note by spending 40 rupees. The company which prints notes also manufactures the machines to detect fake currency notes. first thing that MMS govt does is change the "design" of notes in 2005-06. This coincides with negotiation on Indo-US nuke deal. massive amounts of kickbacks must have been given to various parties. If that "ghotala" comes out, all hell will break loose.

Of course, I am no economist, but I think I have common sense. most of poor people do not need 1000 rupee notes, even 500 rupee note. A bhelpuri wala man earns plenty of money each day in city like mumbai. THe most average bhelpuri wala earns about 1500 rupees per day. 100 rupee notes are enough for him. and anyways, he earns in 10 rupee notes. I have taken the poorest segment from richest city of country. If for him 50 and 100 rupee notes are sufficient, there is no need for others to have higher currency denomination. The popularization of bank-rerouting should be emphasized.

Of course, one thing that is pre-requisite in this case is that the control of Indian banks remain with Indians and the systems and the softwares which deal with the money transactions (cheques, DDs, cards etc) should be designed and updated by Indian companies under tight regulations by concerned authorities.

Please Visit this website for a proposal of economic reforms to be implemented in India. - http://www.arthakranti.org/

Proposed system by Artha-Kraanti - http://www.arthakranti.org/htm/proposed ... oposal.htm

English and Hindi powerpoint presentations to explain the reform - http://www.arthakranti.org/downloads/presentation

One startling proposal made by this website is to withdraw all the currency notes above Rs. 50 from circulation. This will decrease the amount of Black-money in market. These reforms are suggested by Dr. Anil Bokil, an economist from Aurangabad, Maharashtra. His interviews in marathi are available on internet. The following youtube videos are also presented by Dr. Bokil who heads the Arthakranti foundation. Those associated with the bharat swabhiman movement and other sincere NGOs working towards the same cause of economic "swatantrataa" of India should contact this NGO, if they haven't done it already. This idea of withdrawal of currency notes, I first heard in 2002-03 from same individual.
In the initial transition period, people are likely to move to cash transactions rather than transactions through bank where the Transaction Tax is going to be implemented. Therefore, in a given time frame, the finance ministry / RBI must make provisions to remove the higher denomination currency notes from circulation. Say, within a year, the highest currency denomination should be Rs. 50.

With only low valued currency available for cash transactions, people will have no choice but to go for transactions through banks, thus helping boost the government revenue collection. All cash money in higher denomination will have to be deposited in banks within this time frame and will attract 2 % Transaction tax. Source of this money will not be asked.

With such High denomination currency available, Indian Economic trend is to avoid bank transactions, as it is very convenient to operate with cash. This practice has a very adverse effect on Credit Expansion Capability of the economic system.
Arthakranti Proposal for Empowered India - Part 1



Arthakranti Proposal for Empowered India - Part 2



Arthakranti Proposal for Empowered India - Part 3



Arthakranti Proposal for Empowered India - Part 4



People with time-crunch, please watch part 4 first. But, as far as possible, watch all the four parts.. It won't take more than 40 minutes..
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RoyG »

Why to starve Baba Ramdev: Salman

Smrity Sharma, TNN | Jun 3, 2011, 12.00am IST

Baba Ramdev must be gearing up to go on his ambitious hunger strike from Saturday in Delhi. The yogi aspires to ward the country off corruption by starving but the idea has baffled Bollywood hunk Salman Khan.

The actor failed to understand the need for Ramdev to go on a hunger strike. "Why is he going on a hunger strike? Isn't he a yogi teaching yoga?" questioned Salman.

"I know his intention is good, but I think there are better ways for him to stop corruption," said the star further adding, "The yogi has numerous followers across the nation. If he wants to put an end to corrupt practises, he should spread the message through them and
motivate people to stop giving bribes."

Though clueless about how a hunger strike could change a nation, Salman wished that Ramdev accomplishes his mission.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ente ... 712809.cms
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Vikas »

Why do these Bombay Fillum industry stars open their mouth about subjects they have no clue and then lament that they have been quoted out of context. First SRK, now him..Why don't you STFU otherwise face the heat like all of us do.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by svinayak »

VikasRaina wrote:Why do these Bombay Fillum industry stars open their mouth about subjects they have no clue and then lament that they have been quoted out of context. First SRK, now him..Why don't you STFU otherwise face the heat like all of us do.
I have been getting similar signals. There is fear among a small section of Indians. Secular people have fear.
One person even told me that BRD should be arrested.

There is revival of national ethos and dharma which is creating fear since it will remove all kinds of nepotism
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by RoyG »

Yeah these secularists and socialists are slowly being made irrelevant and they can't stand it. For them its label this and that and entitlements follow.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/03/world ... &ref=world
For an Indian public disgusted by worsening corruption, the hunger strikes and yoga sit-ins are spectacles of political theater embroidering what is actually a fight over how to fix the rusted gears of India’s democracy. Reformers want an anticorruption agency with sweeping powers, and the governing Congress Party has promised to propose legislation in the summer session of Parliament.

“This is a real serious breakthrough,” said Sriram Panchu, a lawyer specializing in constitutional law. “There is a chance of something going through, provided the civil society groups handle it carefully.”

Indeed, the reform camp, having shaken the government, is now finding itself under attack, in some instances by natural enemies, in others by natural allies. One issue is the cure itself; even some allies worry that the proposed anticorruption body could become an unchecked superagency. Another complaint is about tactics; critics have accused reformers of conducting “democracy by blackmail” — threatening more hunger strikes unless the government bends to their demands.

“If somebody thinks we blackmailed democracy with our fasting, we’ll keep on blackmailing for these things,” countered Anna Hazare, one of the leading figures in the anticorruption movement. “Democracy is not blackmailed. It is strengthened.”
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

Atri wrote:I am in strong favour of recalling 500 and 1000 rupee notes. I have written about it long ago here and on blog. The withdrawal should be staged and not abrupt of course. It should be coupled with rural penetration of banking sector along with making cash transactions above a particular limit (say 5000 OR 10000 rupees) illegal. :shock: Any transaction above this limit should be routed via a bank. :roll: It is perfectly doable in span of 5 years, if government wishes to.. Nothing impractical about it, IMO
How is this possible? What is the value of a Rupee now? What can Rs. 5000 or Rs. 10000 buy these days?? How can one make any cash transaction of any amount illegal?? Have you thought through the logistics of such a proposed fiasco?? Have you thought through the legal and practical ramifications?

my two cents... for whatever they are worth.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Atri »

legal ramifications can be taken care of by passing appropriate legislatures. If a person can buy something for 5000 rupees in cash, he can as well buy the same thing using credit card and or cheques.

please go through the material I have posted. the reform talks about abolishing all taxes except 2% transaction tax. this will bring down inflation tremendously. Of course, all this has to happen in staged manner. but is doable.

Please let me know why you think this is a fiasco? Please tell this to me after you have read all the material and watched all the videos that I have posted. recalling higher denomination currency notes is just one aspect of arthakranti. it alone cannot do magic.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

Atri - I do not want to take this thread off on a tangent, but i will give you a brief reply...

1) There are very many people out there who do not trust banks and prefer to conduct their interactions with the economy in cash only. This is true here in the US and am sure it is so in India.

2) In this age of ID theft, many people prefer not to carry plastic, where they have multiple points of exposure.

3) How do you address the needs of the nomadic segments of Indian society? leave alone vast segments of the rural society and the urban poor who do not have access to banks?

I can go on and on, but in in keeping with the focus of this thread i'll stop here and i'd like to ask you to introspect a lot more on your ideas...
Atri wrote:legal ramifications can be taken care of by passing appropriate legislatures. If a person can buy something for 5000 rupees in cash, he can as well buy the same thing using credit card and or cheques.

please go through the material I have posted. the reform talks about abolishing all taxes except 2% transaction tax. this will bring down inflation tremendously. Of course, all this has to happen in staged manner. but is doable.

Please let me know why you think this is a fiasco? Please tell this to me after you have read all the material and watched all the videos that I have posted. recalling higher denomination currency notes is just one aspect of arthakranti. it alone cannot do magic.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Atri »

Pranay ji,

I agree that this is not the thread and I do not know where to answer this question. May be mods can suggest a thread.

Cash transactions are allowed till some limit (say Rs. 10,000). For poorest of the poor and nomadic segments, 10,000 is huge amount. any cash transaction above 10,000 should illegal. until this cap of 10,000 rupees (or whatever the limit is), transactions are not only legal but tax exempted. If a nomad wishes to deposit money in bank, he will not have to pay transaction tax for sum below that stipulated cap (here, assumed amount is 10,000). if he wishes to deposit or withdraw more than that X amount, then he will charged 2% transaction tax. since all other taxes apart from import duties are abolished, people will prefer to pay tax and remain in legal domain. those who do not trust the banks, well they should. banks should make themselves credible. If bank's liquidity and credibility is under question, then he can choose a better bank. but mostly people want to indulge in cash transactions because they do not wish their transactions to be tracked and taxed. this mentality has to be attacked. and if this system is not there in US does not mean it should not be there in India. The idea of "tax at source" is slowly getting popular.

Regarding ID theft, it is just one form of theft, Pranay ji. and theft has been going on since prehistoric times when man was not man. Even unicellular organisms indulge in "theft" (a bacteria sucking up a glucose molecule, which was destined to go in the cell of neighbouring bacteria). the only cure for theft is that system should remain ahead of thieves. We cannot ensure robbery free society, nobody can. What a system can ensure is, in most of the cases of thefts, the culprits are caught and justice is given. same is the case with ID-theft. There are many ways to protect ID. fingerprints, retina scan, DNA sequencing, biometric posturing and what not. as and when time and technology progresses, the new forms of ID protection facilities will also emerge. but, with such high revenue which will be generated through 2% transaction tax, government can start better social security programs and generate more employment that those who indulge in theft due to poverty and necessity will not do so. Only those who are thieves by choice or addiction (kleptomaniacs) will remain in the market. all this will take time ofcourse. India will not become utopia in one go. But, one has to start somewhere.

the tax structure of India has become too complicated. it is so complex that the focus of every one is towards avoiding the tax. thus, although economy is huge, the revenues are not huge enough. because most of money bypasses the route of direct tax. hence all sorts of indirect tax. We INdians have to pay about 30 types of different taxes, apart from import duties for foreign goods. I myself do not know what all taxes I am paying and I am sure so do you. If you do know, then you will get my point easily.

Chanakya says, king should collect the tax like a honey-bee drinks nectar from flower. the flower does not ever realize the nectar has been taken and on the contrary is helped in pollination and prospers. The act of honey-bee causes flowers and trees to prosper. Does act of modern government's taxation result in prosperity of janta? no... trivaar no..

No indian king of political system charged tax more than 16% in peace times. here we are paying all sorts of direct and indirect taxes where more than 50% of our income is robbed. In socialist scandinavian countries, the taxes range from 35% to 72%. But then they have a social-security system which is unparalleled. I agree nordic model cannot be implemented in India, but then why so high taxes without any form of social security. the natural inclination of all good men will be towards avoiding taxes. this generated black money.

The issue of Ramdev Baba is not just black money stashed in swiss banks. with growing India, the Indian black money is rarely stashed in swiss banks. it comes back to India as FDI. Indian money becomes FDI and India is sold out.

Politicians are only small players in this black money. They cannot generate money. they can only utilize it. The people who can generate money are the "Vaishya" segment of India. And Vaishyas are taxed exorbitantly without having any favourable policies designed unless they bribe the policy makers to do so. If the tax structure becomes "Vaishya" and "worker" friendly, the needs to have the money they "create" bypassed by national system will be less. There has to be a strong police action to complement this to bring in line, the notorious recalcitrants. but the upstarts will begin to use the "system".

Our system relies on "good people" for effective governance. it should be otherwise. the system should be foolproof enough so that even the bad person is in chair, he cannot do much without having to pay eventually. people can be corrupted or eliminated or grow disinterested. a system (dharma) carries on. And that system then protects the followers of the system.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Atri »

I pray to all my ishtadevatas to grant ramdev baba strength. I pray that may this be the start of process which will force Hindus to make a choice... may this be a small stone which eventually becomes an avalanche in coming decade.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Vashishtha »

RD's fast may not be successful, but it will kick start a WAVE of anger against the system... This wave will gain momentum in the coming years.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by saadhak »

The p-sec DDM is unable to hide its anger and disapproval of the dharmik sections coming together. They are determined to paint this as communal. Around noon time on NDTV, Maya Mirchandani was interviewing a retired judge who was planning to join BR tomorrow.
She asked if Sadhvi Ritambhara joining the stage is giving this a communal colour. The judge asked a counter question if a Muslim leader lends support to the fast, would the same question apply?
No answer. Next question.
Maya: But she is an accused in the Babri Masjid case. How can he share the same stage with her? He had promised Anna Hazare that he would not allow this stage to be used as a communal platform.
Judge: There are many ministers in the government who are known offenders of the law.
No answer.

Next up was a sarcastic report centered around whether this was a fast or a yoga camp.

All their reporting stinks of a condescending attitude towards anything and anyone who is not ashamed of invoking 'Hindu' (interchangeable with communal) values for the good of the nation.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Muppalla »

BR = Bharat Rakshak
BR= Baba Ramdev

:)
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

A very telling set of priorities for two "news channels" -

1) Times Now is reporting Live from the Ramlila grounds on Baba Ramdev and his fast and issues...

2) NDTV is doing the "Greenathon" with Katrina Kaif :(( (in keeping with the color scheme)
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?272107
While the UPA ties itself up in knots over the Lokpal Bill, two out of every three Indians say the prime minister and the higher judiciary should be brought under the bill’s purview, an issue that has seen the UPA government differing with civil society representatives.

This was the predominant finding of an opinion poll conducted for Outlook by Marketing & Development Research Associates (MDRA) in Bangalore, Chennai, Delhi, Calcutta and Mumbai on June 1. Surprisingly, the percentage of those who felt the PM should be brought into the ambit of the bill was lowest for one city that went to the polls recently (Chennai 25.6%) and highest for another (Calcutta 87.2%).

The trend was the same on the issue of keeping Supreme Court judges and members of Parliament out. Overall, 60% say judges and MPs too should come under the Lokpal’s eagle eye, but in Chennai—in many senses the epicentre of the 2G scam—that figure shoots up to as much as 95.2%.

Although reservations have been expressed about the Lokpal becoming a big brother with oversight over the executive, judiciary and Parliament, two out of three respondents say they are comfortable with the thought of a body with overarching powers.

Most respondents hold the government responsible for the standoff, and no city wants civil society representatives to quit the joint panel in case the Centre doesn’t accede to the demands. The fervour hasn’t died down either—over 80% say they will join a fresh protest if talks break down. A total of 630 adults (455 men, 175 women) were polled. The confidence level is 95% with +/-3.90% error or margin.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Manishw »

saadhak wrote:The p-sec DDM is unable to hide its anger and disapproval of the dharmik sections coming together. They are determined to paint this as communal. Around noon time on NDTV, Maya Mirchandani was interviewing a retired judge who was planning to join BR tomorrow.
She asked if Sadhvi Ritambhara joining the stage is giving this a communal colour. The judge asked a counter question if a Muslim leader lends support to the fast, would the same question apply?
No answer. Next question.
Maya: But she is an accused in the Babri Masjid case. How can he share the same stage with her? He had promised Anna Hazare that he would not allow this stage to be used as a communal platform.
Judge: There are many ministers in the government who are known offenders of the law.
No answer.

Next up was a sarcastic report centered around whether this was a fast or a yoga camp.

All their reporting stinks of a condescending attitude towards anything and anyone who is not ashamed of invoking 'Hindu' (interchangeable with communal) values for the good of the nation.

Absolutely correct and then Kiran Bedi really ripped into the psecs.Kudos to her.

NDTV, Star and IBN really are misrepresenting and twisting everything nothing surprising but even Zee has joined this gang.Was a real surprise to me.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Singha »

times now and headlines today are covering the event live.

ndtv 24x7 has a headline on screen titled "Sangh links to ramdev?" and some hack asking the same inane question to BJP spokesman, obviously to side track from the main agitation and muddy the waters.

but afaik ndtv news has a very low viewership (chattering classes only), its what the regional language channels show that probably matters a lot more.
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Re: Anna Hazare and Lokpal Bill

Post by Pranay »

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/05/world ... ?ref=world
“Nothing is impossible; everything is possible,” Swami Ramdev told supporters, according to Indian news agencies, as he sat on a special platform in his trademark saffron-colored robe. “We are not going to be defeated.”

Swami Ramdev’s rally is the latest piece of political theater staged by different segments of India’s civil society, in what has become a growing anticorruption pressure campaign against the Congress Party-led national government. In April, a veteran campaigner, Anna Hazare, staged a hunger strike in New Delhi that provoked a spontaneous outpouring of public support. Government leaders ultimately capitulated to the guru’s demand for a special committee to draft legislation for a new anticorruption agency.
“Civil society activists act as if they should have the last word on everything,” wrote Pratap Bhanu Mehta, president of the Centre for Policy Research in New Delhi. “The outrage that drives them has some justifiable basis. But civil society is, unconsciously, abetting its own brand of authoritarianism.”

At the Saturday rally in New Delhi, supporters of Swami Ramdev sang devotional and patriotic songs after holding yoga sessions. Media reports estimated that 50,000 attended. Crowds chanted slogans such as “Reform Rotten Laws,” “Bring Back Black Money,” “Hang Killers of Mother India,” lending a more combustible atmosphere for the usually placid practice of yoga.

“I support Swami Ramdev’s agitation because he is fighting against corruption,” said Amit Paswan, 20, a student who traveled 18 hours by train from eastern India so that he could participate in the rally. “I will sit here as long as Swami Ramdev is sitting here.”

Swami Ramdev’s followers have erected a vast yoga encampment, equipped with large LCD screens, hundreds of overhead fans, water coolers, a state-of-the-art sound system and public toilets. He has reportedly rented the outdoor space for a month, though few people expect his hunger strike to last anywhere near that long.
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