China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 31 May 2011 13:28

Surya wrote:I merely was at not having the core competency that yet another BRite has

At least you are out of diapers, hear I am a kindergardner who is still in Diapers.

Don · Post by **Don** » 31 May 2011 13:43

Singha wrote:well its a bigger (fatter) sub than Kilo for sure both the sail and hull are fatter. so maybe it does need those grates, maybe some guy (artist) was trying to "improve" the looks and make it more chankian and threatening...who knows....but the Yuan does exist and follow-ons based on it are logical to expect.

chinese are not pushovers in naval design, and Rubin has been giving them help for SSK if not more. there will be reasons of logic for everything and this could include some engineering challenges that large grates work around perhaps.

The Lada class has longer slit maybe some advantages we don't know ?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 31 May 2011 15:51

I sent the pics to an ex submariner.

The lada class has their hydroplanes on the fin. It is visual. There are two different classes of chinese submarines in the pictures. In one of them the hydroplanes are well forward, which is visual. All other slits in all the submarines are just openings for the free flow of water out of the casing ( the external covering of the hull), when the submarine surfaces. It could also be diesel exhaust baffles during snorting; provided they are conventional subs and not nukes.

My next Q was : Thank You, but, why is so big? Does it offers any advantages?

No. The water accumulated underwater has to be drained out post surfacing.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 31 May 2011 16:00

[quote=

You mean more embarrassing than this?

[/quote]
That is hillarious but I think its just for show just like this one :

[/quote]

gotta accept here .. !! we got pawned... what the heck was the second pic..?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 31 May 2011 16:02

For records

At the end of 2007, Chinese helicopter-maker Avic 2 asked us to provide an engine for the Z-15, the Chinese version of the EC175,” recalls Cyril Volte. “So we offered an equal partnership on the Ardiden 3C, which is designated WZ-16 in China. Our Chinese partners are providing the cold section, while Turbomeca retains responsibility for the hot section.” (editor’s note: the combustor and high-pressure turbine). Engine certification by Chinese aviation authorities is expected in 2013.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 31 May 2011 16:15

prithvi wrote:<SNIP> gotta accept here .. !! we got pawned... what the heck was the second pic..?

"We" as in who got pawned? People like you? I'm sure not in your league and let me see, how many on BRF are...

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 31 May 2011 17:34

chackojoseph wrote:For records

At the end of 2007, Chinese helicopter-maker Avic 2 asked us to provide an engine for the Z-15, the Chinese version of the EC175,” recalls Cyril Volte. “So we offered an equal partnership on the Ardiden 3C, which is designated WZ-16 in China. Our Chinese partners are providing the cold section, while Turbomeca retains responsibility for the hot section.” (editor’s note: the combustor and high-pressure turbine). Engine certification by Chinese aviation authorities is expected in 2013.

Might be a version of the Shakti? Classic French behaviour - selling to both sides for money.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 31 May 2011 17:38

merlin wrote:Might be a version of the Shakti? Classic French behaviour - selling to both sides for money.

Could be. I wanted to point out that Chinese have issues with the "hot parts." Logically, the Military engines too have similar issues. IMHO>

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Jun 2011 11:28

US not trying to hold China down, says Robert Gates

Balance of powers

"We are not trying to hold China down. China has been a great power for thousands of years.

"It is a global power and will be a global power. So the question is how we work our way through this in a way that ensures that we continue to have positive relations," Mr Gates said.

"I think the Chinese have learned a powerful lesson from the Soviet experience," he said, in an apparent reference to over-spending on military goals to the detriment of the economy.

"They do not intend to try to compete with us across the full range of our capabilities but I think they are intending to develop capabilities that give them a considerable freedom of action in Asia and the opportunity to extend their influence."

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Jun 2011 11:41

merlin wrote:Classic French behaviour - selling to both sides for money.

Well its an open market and any one including French can sell weapon to any country and no country holds a veto over what should be sold to any other country , the French , Russians and US they all do that onlee.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 02 Jun 2011 14:07

Austin wrote:
merlin wrote:Classic French behaviour - selling to both sides for money.
Well its an open market and any one including French can sell weapon to any country and no country holds a veto over what should be sold to any other country , the French , Russians and US they all do that onlee.

Banana republic onleee saar, what to do?

navneeet · Post by **navneeet** » 02 Jun 2011 17:31

Relax: China’s First Aircraft Carrier is a Piece of Junk

An interesting article from David Axe

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06 ... e-of-junk/

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 03 Jun 2011 01:38

China preparing Tibet as future war zone

Construction of new airfields and the upgradation of advanced landing grounds (ALGs) and helipads in and around the TAR, coupled with the acquisition of new transport aircraft, will enhance China’s strategic airlift capability resulting in faster induction and concentration of field formations in comparatively shorter time-frames and, consequently, over shorter warning periods. The construction of airfields and ALGs closer to Indian borders boosts the PLA Air Force fighter aircrafts’ striking range and provides it the ability to strike and engage targets in India on a broad front and in depth.

Another major infrastructure development is the construction of new missile bases in Tibet. According to recent reports, China has placed advanced Dong Feng-21 medium-range ballistic missiles along the borders it shares with India. During a future conflict with India, the PLA could easily move 500 to 600 mobile ballistic missile launchers to bases close to the Indian border from their current deployment opposite Taiwan.

Complexities of the Tibetan terrain, vagaries of climate, and sustenance capacities of the thrust lines chosen, are all factors that influence the depth of operations that are planned to be undertaken. To address this aspect, the PLA is reportedly constructing Hyperbaric Chambers to facilitate the rapid acclimatisation of troops brought in from lower altitudes. It is also building the first batch of oxygen-enriched barracks using plants for troops in the TAR at the Nagchu Military Sub-Command at an altitude of 4,500 metres.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jun 2011 05:12

VinodTK wrote:China preparing Tibet as future war zone
To address this aspect, the PLA is reportedly constructing Hyperbaric Chambers to facilitate the rapid acclimatisation of troops brought in from lower altitudes. It is also building the first batch of oxygen-enriched barracks using plants for troops in the TAR at the Nagchu Military Sub-Command at an altitude of 4,500 metres.

This is the part that sounds silly. If you rapidly induct unacclimatized troops and put them in oxygen enriched barracks or even in "hyperbaric chambers - they will all be happy and comfortable - but they will remain unacclimatized and will not develop the body defence reaction to high altitude. The body detects low oxygen levels and reacts in ways that will not be triggered by providing higher oxygen levels. This will make it worse for them in a hot war everyone agrees to fight a war inside those barracks.

If troops are acclimatized they do not need O2 enriched barracks.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jun 2011 05:58

navneeet wrote:Relax: China’s First Aircraft Carrier is a Piece of Junk

An interesting article from David Axe

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06 ... e-of-junk/

China has struggled for years to design and build adequate powerplants for its ships and aircraft. Although Chinese aerospace firms are increasingly adept at manufacturing airframes, they still have not mastered motors. That’s why the new WZ-10 attack helicopter was delayed nearly a decade, and why there appear to be two different prototypes for the J-20 stealth fighter. One flies with reliable Russian-made AL-31F engines; the other apparently uses a less trustworthy Chinese design, the WS-10A.

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 03 Jun 2011 05:59

Logic would dictate that the amount of time spent in the hyperbaric chamber be reduced gradually while increasing the time and effort in natural environment. Hyperbaric Chambers will provide opportunities of recuperation to the soldiers till they develop enough resistance to high altitude environments. But then this defeats the purpose of RAPID induction (which i guess might be the result of Chinese DDM at work).

Don · Post by **Don** » 03 Jun 2011 16:38

It looks like China is busy exploiting Siberian and Central Asians energy sources. Good business or bad idea for the Russians ?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/3 ... CD20110531

Russia, China to wrap up gas deal before Hu visit

By Gleb Bryanski

MOSCOW | Tue May 31, 2011 5:16pm BST

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia said on Tuesday it would finalise a major gas supply deal with China in time for a visit in mid-June by President Hu Jintao, wrapping up years of talks to open a new export route to the world's biggest energy market.

Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin said he had reached broad agreement at a meeting in Moscow with his counterpart Wang Qishan to supply China with 68 billion cubic metres (bcm) a year of gas over a timespan of 30 years.

Gas export monopoly Gazprom (GAZP.MM) would deliver 30 bcm a year through the 'Altai' route, pumping gas from its existing fields in western Siberia across the narrow stretch of common border located between Kazakhstan and Mongolia.

A further 38 bcm per year would go by pipeline down Russia's Pacific seaboard and into northeast China. The viability of this route had been in doubt until recently.

The launch of gas exports to China would break Russia's export dependency on the European market, to which the world's largest gas producer expects to export over 150 bcm this year.

Sechin said final agreement had not yet been reached on price but the two sides had tasked their state energy firms, Gazprom and CNPC CNPET.UL with finalising terms.

"We have asked Gazprom and CNPC to finish talks and prepare a package of contracts for signing before June 10," Sechin told reporters in Moscow.

"We are one big step away from achieving our aims," Liu Tienan, head of China's state energy directorate, told a separate news conference. "We have created the conditions for the final step."

Officials want a deal to be finalised before a visit to Russia by President Hu, who will be the guest of honour at the St Petersburg International Economic Forum on June 16-18.

Separately, Russian officials said a dispute over payments for Russian oil exports to China had been resolved, after China had paid nearly $200 million (121 million pounds) in outstanding arrears to state controlled oil major Rosneft and pipeline monopoly Transneft.

START DATE

Neither side gave any dates for the start of gas deliveries, but the 'Altai' route is likely to start first as it would tap into Gazprom's core resource base of fields in western Siberia that are already in production.

The Pacific route, by contrast, would rely on developing new gas assets, such as the Chayandinskoye field, in remote eastern Siberia that are years away from exploitation.

Start dates have often slipped since the two sides signed a memorandum of understanding in 2006, with a joint document inked in October 2009 stating that deliveries would start in 2014-15.

Sechin, who has a sweeping energy policy mandate, has come under pressure to deliver a gas deal after the collapse of a strategic partnership between Rosneft (ROSN.MM) and BP (BP.L) that he masterminded.

Price terms, a key sticking point given Gazprom's push to benchmark the price China pays off its European export prices, have yet to be finalised, officials said.

No Chinese loan is foreseen as part of the gas export supply deal, and Gazprom's deputy CEO Alexander Medvedev said the company would have no problems financing pipeline construction.

That contrasts with an oil export deal Sechin negotiated under which Rosneft (ROSN.MM) received a $15 billion oil-backed loan and Transneft TRNF_P.MM a $10 billion credit.

Russia has also lagged behind the gas-rich states of former Soviet Central Asia, which have already started exports to China. Last month, China lent Turkmenistan's state gas firm $4.1 billion, backed by gas supplies.

Sechin dismissed suggestions that the Central Asians had secured a first-mover advantage. "I think Gazprom is fully competitive in this context," he told reporters.

(Additional reporting by Melissa Akin and Vladimir Soldatkin, Writing by Douglas Busvine; Editing by Alfred Kueppers)

Russia hails oil pipe as first step towards China
By Charles Clover in Moscow

Published: September 27 2010 20:23 | Last updated: September 27 2010 20:23

Russia and China opened a historic oil pipeline in a move hailed by their leaders as the first step towards diversifying Russia�s energy exports away from Europe and towards its eastern neighbour.

The commercial logic of greater energy links between one of the largest producers of energy and the world�s largest consumer has outweighed political distrust between the two nations, which fought a brief war in 1969 and only two years ago finalised border delimitation.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and his Chinese counterpart Hu Jintao marked the completion of the Chinese branch by simultaneously pressing a button to open the pipeline during a ceremony in Beijing on Monday.

�Our co-operation has already reached the level of strategic partnership,� said Mr Medvedev. Negotiations over the pipeline, which began 14 years ago, have tracked the warming relations between the two countries, which now conduct military exercises together.

The pipeline represents a strategic shift for Russia�s energy industry. Currently, its maze of oil and gas pipelines head westward, supplying Europe, and Russian leaders have long said they wanted to diversify exports.

Julia Nanay, of PFC Energy in Washington, said such moves had �become an important strategic priority for Russia�.

The new EPSO pipeline snakes through east Siberian steppes from the Russian town of Skvordino to Daqing, an oil hub in China.

It is expected to start pumping 300,000 barrels a day on January 1. State-controlled Rosneft, Russia�s largest oil concern, will sell the crude to China�s top energy group, PetroChina.

Oil exports are to be followed by gas exports, as China is eager to burn less coal and more environmentally friendly gas. In 2006 Russia agreed to build two gas pipelines to China, carrying 68bn cu m of gas per year, though failure to agree on a pricing formula have delayed the progress of the gas lines.

Russian gas export monopoly Gazprom said it had cemented terms for a supply deal to sell 30bn?cu?m to China National Petroleum Corp annually. The two countries have not managed to clinch a gas price deal, however.

�We expect commercial contracts by the middle of 2011,� Igor Sechin, Russia�s deputy prime minister, told reporters.

�Practically, there are no limits for the growth of gas consumption in China,� said Mr Sechin, who is chairman of Russian oil company Rosneft and oversees the country�s energy and metals industries. �Secondly, Russia has all the gas needed for China�s economic development.�

Russia wants to supply all of China's gas needs
The Associated Press

Date: Monday Sep. 27, 2010 6:08 AM ET

BEIJING � China and Russia signed agreements Monday to boost energy cooperation, while Moscow said it is ready to supply its energy hungry neighbor with all its natural gas needs.

No dollar value was given to the agreements signed during a state visit by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, but they include documents on cooperation in coal, natural gas, nuclear energy and renewable energy.

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin told reporters in Beijing that Russia is in talks with Chinese partners on plans to launch natural gas supplies to China starting in 2015, according to the state ITAR-Tass news agency.

"Russia is ready to meet China's full demand in gas," Sechin was quoted as saying in the report.

Russia is the world's biggest energy producer and China is the world's largest energy consumer, overtaking the United States last year.

Although Europe remains Russia's largest export market for gas and oil, both Beijing and Moscow have been seeking to diversify their energy sources and markets, despite a long history of mutual suspicion and tensions.

Medvedev is on a three-day visit that started Sunday. He met Chinese President Hu Jintao for talks Monday and praised closer ties with China.

"I believe that the contact between the two countries is completely in the interest of the Russian and Chinese peoples," Medvedev said in opening remarks.

Hu hailed a "new era" in partnership. "Both sides believe that the current strategic partnership between China and Russia stands at a new starting point," the Chinese leader said at the end of talks.

Sechin said that if talks with China on gas supplies went well, Russia could sign commercial contracts by the middle of next year, ITAR-Tass said.

Russian news agency Interfax cited Russian Energy Minister Sergei Shmatko as saying that "in my opinion, the main terms of (gas) supplies, apart from the price, have been agreed upon."

In late August, Russia opened its section of a 1,000-kilometre crude oil pipeline from eastern Siberia to China, which will connect Russian oil fields with Daqing, a major oil production base in northeastern China.

Russia and China split bitterly 50 years ago over interpretations of communist ideology. In recent years, their relationship has warmed but they remain divided by culture and a preference in both capitals for acting independently.

Both see themselves as rivals to Washington and all three are permanent members of the UN Security Council. China and Russia have close ties to Iran and though they supported UN sanctions adopted last month against Tehran over its suspected nuclear program, they have objected to stronger measures.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 03 Jun 2011 16:46

Russia will use Chinese money to build defences against China

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 03 Jun 2011 17:50

Please take the strategy/geopolitics discussion to appropriate forum. WRT Russia using Chinese money to build defenses against the Chinese, you also need reliable and willing manpower to man those defenses and Russia isn't going to get that with Chinese money alone.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 03 Jun 2011 17:57

ParGha wrote:Please take the strategy/geopolitics discussion to appropriate forum. WRT Russia using Chinese money to build defenses against the Chinese, you also need reliable and willing manpower to man those defenses and Russia isn't going to get that with Chinese money alone.

Right... the Russian army is short of willing people.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 03 Jun 2011 18:40

^^
I hope you are aware that the Russian Army mostly consists of conscripts. So, ParGha's point is pretty valid.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 03 Jun 2011 18:53

Gaur wrote:^^
I hope you are aware that the Russian Army mostly consists of conscripts.

So does the Israeli army but one rarely hears of motivational issues from that corner of the world. In the case of the Russian army, better pay and working conditions will go a long way in improving morale, both of which need cash.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 03 Jun 2011 19:46

^^
That is a highly simplistic view of the matter. The lack of motivation and divisions among Russian people (especially political and regional) are at extreme contrast to the unity and motivation of Israeli people . Not to mention the differences between their version of conscription and that of Israel. So, Russia cannot be compared with Israel. Anyway, this is way OT here.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 03 Jun 2011 21:18

Gaur wrote:^^
That is a highly simplistic view of the matter. The lack of motivation and divisions among Russian people (especially political and regional) are at extreme contrast to the unity and motivation of Israeli people . Not to mention the differences between their version of conscription and that of Israel. So, Russia cannot be compared with Israel. Anyway, this is way OT here.

And you take it to the other logical extreme that the Russian army is so disparate that it's effectively ineffective. Here is my last opinion on the matter:
February 28, 2011 : With Russia's $650 billion rearmament plan, the bear sharpens its teeth

That, sir, is a hell of a lot of money and it's got to come from somewhere.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 05 Jun 2011 09:36

I'm surprised that you guys just found out about that new sub, pics of it have been out since last year and I believe I casually mentioned it in a update on the Chinese military post. If you think this one looks photoshopped you shoulda seen the first few pics! This was the first pic out:

Everybody was suspicious then, but people nevertheless took the pictures seriously because reliable posters said that their sources indicate that they're authentic. And what do you know, a few days later clearer pictures began to surface, which is kinda par on course these days I suppose. Anyhow, all this happened LAST SEPTEMBER, these are just the newest pictures in a long series of them released since then.

As for what exactly this sub is, there is no clear consensus other than that it's almost certainly not nuclear and that it's a huge conventional sub. Some think it's a prototype missile launching ship designed to replace the old Golf class. Many others think that it's just a one-off test ship with modular components designed to test the newest undersea weapons. Flip a couple pages back to the picture of this sub in the drydock, you can see what seems like a bulge below the sub, directly below the sail. This may indicate that the ship is designed to be capable of carrying vertically launched missiles, although, once again, it's unclear if it's only for testing missiles or if it's actually designed to be in service.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Jun 2011 20:04

DavidD wrote:I'm surprised that you guys just found out about that new sub,

OK tell me which forum to watch.

Sean Rowe · Post by **Sean Rowe** » 05 Jun 2011 20:33

Chinese defense Minister at Sharngri La Dialogue 2011....

See at 19:15 min on a question asked by Manish Tiwari He says China's Core interests are Socialism, National integrity, Economic Security

at 32:00 min On a question Whether China is going to establish a base at Gwadar, and Srilanka He did not deny it.

[youtube]9k0VNis0WAg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 06 Jun 2011 18:42

Vietnam Confirms Kilo Sub Buy at Shangri-La

Vietnam Confirms Kilo Sub Buy at Shangri-La
By WENDELL MINNICK
Published : 5 Jun 2011

SINGAPORE - Vietnam will procure six Russian-built Kilo-class attack submarines "to defend" the country. Vietnam's Defense Minister, Gen. Phung Quang Thanh, made the comment June 5 at the 10th Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore 5. Analysts put the price tag for the deal at just over $3 billion.

The announcement comes in the wake of official protests lodged by Hanoi over a May 26 incident when three Chinese vessels operated by the State Oceanic Administration harassed the Binh Minh 02, a Vietnamese oil exploration seismic survey vessel belonging to the Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam). One of the Chinese vessels cut the ship's survey cable. The incident occurred within Vietnam's Exclusive Economic Zone.

The incident causes "considerable concern on the maintenance of peace and stability in the East Sea [South China Sea]," he said. Further, Vietnam has "exercised patience in managing the incident with peaceful means in accordance with the international laws and the principle of determinedly protecting our national sovereignty."

The incident caused outrage in Vietnam, resulting in public protests at the Chinese embassy and hacker attacks on Chinese government websites.

Thanh met with Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie at a bilateral meeting during the Shangri-La to discuss issues, including the incident. The Dialogue is organized by the London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS) and held annually each June in Singapore.

Lt. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh, Deputy Minister of Defense, also confirmed the Kilo submarine deal and added that Vietnam was also buying "Su-30 fighters and surface-to-air missiles." However, the procurements were not tied to the May 26 incident and were "part of our weapons appreciation program for enhancing our capabilities." He said Vietnam has a "legitimate need to upgrade our military capability."

Vinh emphasized that the recent incident with China was a "civilian clash" and not a military issue. Vietnamese law enforcement and maritime agencies are responsible for these types of problems, he said. "What happened, happened" and it must he handled within the guidelines of international law by peaceful means. However, Vinh stressed that Vietnam would use "all means to protect our national sovereignty."

China's military has been expanding its capabilities and influence in the South China Sea with a new submarine base on Hainan Island, and preparations are underway to begin sea trials of its first aircraft carrier.

China and Vietnam have been bumping into one another in the South China Sea since the 1970s. In 1974 China took the Paracel Islands by military force from then-South Vietnam, and Hanoi has continued to claim sovereignty over the islands. Periodic arrests of Vietnamese fishermen in the area have also caused frustration in Hanoi.

In 1988 China and Vietnam Fought over the Johnson South Reef in the South China Sea. China sank two Vietnamese naval vessels and opened fire on Vietnamese troops occupying the reef. A video documentary widely aired in Vietnam, dubbed the "Spratly Islands Massacre", available on YouTube, allegedly shows a Chinese frigate gunning down around 30 Vietnamese soldiers on the reef.

The latest incident has raised concerns China is becoming aggressive in the South China Sea and risks sparking a conflict. However, a member of the Chinese delegation attending the Shangri-La Dialogue said the Chinese vessels involved in the May 26 incident might be acting unilaterally without the consent or encouragement of Beijing. The State Oceanic Administration and other non-military maritime patrol and law enforcement organizations have in the past acted carelessly, he said. These organizations are often fighting over budgets and attempting to justify their existence, thus they sometimes "act muscularly."

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 06 Jun 2011 18:51

shiv wrote:
DavidD wrote:I'm surprised that you guys just found out about that new sub,
OK tell me which forum to watch.

Sinodefence.com is a good one if you don't wanna register, china-defense.com/smf is pretty good too, but you'll have to register to access the contents. There are few fanboys on there, I can only think of one off the top of my head(a transplant from pak defence, of course

), and you should be able to quickly identify who the reliable posters are. There's another website, http://cnair.top81.cn/ it looks kinda crappy, but the guy who runs it has been uncannily accurate and is counted on as a credible source on the Chinese boards.

Now, an update on the latest news/rumors of Chinese military. Some are not too new, but I haven't seen mentioned on here.

1) A new type of CIWS has recently been seen on the ex-Varyag, a 10 or 11 barrel 30mm gun.
2) There are some rumors regarding the development of a stealth-optimized(not stealthy from the ground up like the F-22/T-50/J-20 etc.) JH-7B. It is said that a prototype has been built.
3) There are also some rumors regarding a stealth-optimized JF-17/FC-1. Again, wouldn't call it a stealth aircraft, just some frontal stealth optimizations.
4) All J-11 variants being produced now are powered by the WS-10 engine, including the J-11BS(double seater) and the J-15(carrier-based one).
5) Four new 052C+ destroyers are in various stages of construction, and the 12th 054A frigate is about to be finished. Some of these are expected to be part of a CBG with the ex-Varyag.
6) J-10Bs are expected to enter production this year.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jun 2011 19:20

There is a sudden increase and spike in china related discussions through out internet, radio (npr), and cnbc other khan media networks including pbs. Japan sure thinks chinese rise as second super power and in seak of energy resources is not going to be peaceful. India is aware, and are slowly strengthening border inch by inch (imo), and those interviews with certain chips on the radio want to assert their history, is not about invasions, but business[/lying and cheating]

Imo, chips are all about playing bad to get what they want. Energy resource hunting, and they will cross swords with anyone on their way.. and wants to emphasize their blue water presence with more force than civilian diplomacy.

Just like terror warning colors, I think chip warning indicators have now reached near Orange level.

chip alert!

manum · Post by **manum** » 06 Jun 2011 21:35

I hear unusual amount of sorties of jaguars...in my home town which has IAF base i.e. Gorakhpur...people say this base is specially strategic in terms of China...but I never researched on it...

While in Lucknow in front of my house is HAL facility which is huge...never got a chance to go inside...

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 06 Jun 2011 23:50

SaiK wrote:There is a sudden increase and spike in china related discussions through out internet, radio (npr), and cnbc other khan media networks including pbs. Japan sure thinks chinese rise as second super power and in seak of energy resources is not going to be peaceful. India is aware, and are slowly strengthening border inch by inch (imo), and those interviews with certain chips on the radio want to assert their history, is not about invasions, but business[/lying and cheating]

Imo, chips are all about playing bad to get what they want. Energy resource hunting, and they will cross swords with anyone on their way.. and wants to emphasize their blue water presence with more force than civilian diplomacy.

Just like terror warning colors, I think chip warning indicators have now reached near Orange level.

chip alert!

The U.S. is finishing up with their war on terror(pulling out of Iraq/Afghanistan, killing Bin Laden), now the Americans are turning their attention to China, that's a big part of why you're seeing more Chinese-related news.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jun 2011 05:21

DavidD wrote:
The U.S. is finishing up with their war on terror(pulling out of Iraq/Afghanistan, killing Bin Laden), now the Americans are turning their attention to China, that's a big part of why you're seeing more Chinese-related news.

To me this sounds like snake oil being sold by your filthier and more vulgar plostitute, Pakistan

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Jun 2011 05:35

It could be an anti-dhoti-shiver (they don't wear dhoties, perhaps boxer short shiver).. in the sense, a preemptive mind bender for finnicky khan citizens, to be aware of the consequences of being too dependent on china for cheap goods.

Also, note obama wants those jobs taken over by khan robots.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 07 Jun 2011 07:06

Well the US media has been drumming up China for a few years now. While the media isn't directly guided, they certainly take their cues from the establishment on many things. (of course, the "semi-treachorous left" influence is alive and well in the US media too).

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 07 Jun 2011 08:18

Growing security concerns due to natural resources demand led by China and India : SIPRI

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 07 Jun 2011 09:38

DavidD wrote:The U.S. is finishing up with their war on terror(pulling out of Iraq/Afghanistan, killing Bin Laden), now the Americans are turning their attention to China, that's a big part of why you're seeing more Chinese-related news.

Like you mean the big Satan and Evil Empire that needs US attention

Shiv need to drop an email can I have your email id , Thanks

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Jun 2011 14:05

Austin wrote:
DavidD wrote:The U.S. is finishing up with their war on terror(pulling out of Iraq/Afghanistan, killing Bin Laden), now the Americans are turning their attention to China, that's a big part of why you're seeing more Chinese-related news.
Like you mean the big Satan and Evil Empire that needs US attention

Shiv need to drop an email can I have your email id , Thanks

bennedose AT hotmail should do the trick

Don · Post by **Don** » 07 Jun 2011 19:19

chackojoseph wrote:Growing security concerns due to natural resources demand led by China and India : SIPRI

Here is an example :

I think the next battle ground is economic not military. Leaders of any country who fails to understand this will miss the boat.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110606/ap_ ... a_moves_in

China shops for Latin American oil, food, minerals

By IAN JAMES, Associated Press Ian James, Associated Press – Mon Jun 6, 8:09 am ET

CARACAS, Venezuela – Latin America is blessed with a wealth of natural resources such as oil, copper and soy, and seeks investment and loans to capitalize on them. China needs the commodities to keep its economy growing and has about $3 trillion in reserves to burn.

Those interests have come together in a burgeoning and unorthodox partnership, as China lends and invests tens of billions of dollars in countries around Latin America in return for a guaranteed flow of commodities, particularly oil.

Recent deals have made China a key financier to the governments of Venezuela and Argentina. At the same time, Chinese companies have secured a decade's worth of oil from Venezuela and Brazil, and steady supplies of wheat, soybeans and natural gas from Argentina.

China is breaking new ground by aggressively locking down commodities around Latin America through large loans, investments and other financial arrangements, said Orville Schell, director of the Center on U.S.-China Relations at the Asia Society in New York.

"I don't know of any other government which has done this sort of securing of rights for commodities and natural resources so systematically around the Third World as China, and they've used a whole host of new financial instruments to do this," Schell said.

"China's been very, very prolific in spreading its investments around Africa and Latin America, even though the terms aren't ideal."

Ernesto Fernandez Taboada, director of the Argentine-Chinese Chamber of Production, Industry and Commerce, said China is simply making sure it has the resources it needs to continue growing its economy, which, by some accounts, is projected to surpass the U.S.'s by 2020.

"For China, this is a strategic, long-term investment," Fernandez Taboada said. "They're thinking in the future, not just in the moment. These oil investments, for example, are for 15 to 20 years."

Some of the largest investments have gone to Brazil and Argentina, but China has extended even bigger loans to Venezuela, agreeing to provide more than $32 billion to President Hugo Chavez's government.

Venezuela will pay its debt in oil, and in increasing amounts of it during the next decade. The infusion of cash has swiftly made China Venezuela's biggest foreign lender, enabling Chavez to boost spending ahead of next year's presidential election.

"Viva China!" Chavez exclaimed during a televised meeting with business leaders from Beijing, thanking them for helping set up mobile phone factories and build railways and public housing in Venezuela. He gushed: "I'm in love with China."

The relationship is driven in part by Chavez's eagerness to form alliances that exclude the U.S. But it's also good business for Chinese companies: Venezuela says it has been exporting to China about 460,000 barrels a day, about 20 percent of its oil exports, according to official figures. It hopes to double that soon.

"Venezuela has what we need," said Chen Ping, political counselor at the Chinese Embassy in Caracas. "And we also have what they need, for example technology ... Therefore we can help each other mutually."

The loans are typically secured against revenues from oil sales to Chinese companies, purportedly at market prices, though there could be discounts in some cases, said Erica Downs, an expert at the Brookings Institution think tank in Washington. She wrote a March report on the China Development Bank's energy deals worldwide.

In many cases, financing is being channeled through the state-controlled China Development Bank, which has worked with Chinese companies to lock in commodity supplies.

Downs said such loans give Chinese state oil companies an edge by allowing them special access to local projects. In some cases, she said, such as in Venezuela and Argentina, the loans appear tied to hiring Chinese companies that carry out public works projects for the borrowing government.

China's financing has also been unique, she said, in that in recent years "virtually no other financial institutions were willing to lend such large amounts of capital for such long terms."

Countries such as Venezuela and Ecuador would otherwise have few options for obtaining such large lines of credit, in part due to their presidents' hostility toward traditional lenders such as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, Downs said.

The China Development Bank has become a convenient "lender of last resort," Downs said, and Venezuela's government, in fact, has become the bank's biggest foreign borrower.

In Ecuador, the Chinese oil company PetroChina agreed in 2009 to lend $1 billion to state company PetroEcuador in exchange for oil deliveries. The China Development Bank also agreed to lend $1 billion last year to Ecuador's government, to be repaid through oil shipments.

The Chinese stake appears set to grow exponentially.

Direct Chinese investments totaled more than $15 billion in Latin America and the Caribbean last year — 9 percent of the region's foreign direct investment, according to a May report by the U.N. Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean.

The report said that while the U.S. is still Latin America's largest investment source, China has climbed to third place, behind the Netherlands.

In Argentina, Chinese companies have even replaced U.S. and British corporations in controlling lucrative natural gas and oil resources.

Last year, the state-owned Chinese oil company CNOOC entered into a 50-50 joint venture with Bridas Energy Holdings Ltd., a family owned Argentine company. The joint venture then bought out British company BP's shares in Argentina-based Pan American Energy, giving it 18 percent of Argentina's oil and natural gas production. This year, the venture also purchased U.S.-based Exxon Mobil Corp.'s interests in Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay, including a refinery and more than 700 service stations.

"Clearly, the U.S. remains the significant actor in Latin America and will remain so for the foreseeable future," said Eric Farnsworth, vice president of the Council of the Americas, a U.S.-based business group. "But China's a huge part of the scene now. It was commodities exports to China over the last five years that allowed Latin America to weather the economic turmoil."

One Chinese company not only locked in a long-term supply of commodities, but also set a more stable price for years to come and circumvented market rates, which have soared in part because of Chinese demand.

China and Chile created a $2 billion sales, finance and investment joint venture in 2005 that guaranteed China 836,250 metric tons of copper over 15 years, at rates partially fixed on what was then the market price of $2.07 a pound. Chile's state-owned Codelco mining company had to put up its entire 49 percent interest in the venture as collateral, and give China Minmetals Corp. an option to purchase 100 percent of one of the world's most promising copper mines.

Chileans criticized the deal as a threat to their patrimony as they became aware of its details and copper prices soared. Both sides backed off the Chinese purchase option in 2008 to fend off the criticism, but with copper now trading above $4 a pound, Chile's top client is still getting thousands of tons of copper at far below market prices.

China also controls 50 percent of Argentina's largest oil field, Cerro Dragon, and all the oil and gas reserves in the far southern Argentine province of Santa Cruz over the next 40 years, deals that became anti-government campaign issues in provincial elections.

During recent visits to Brazil, Schell said he has heard wariness from businesspeople about a system in which "Brazil sends their natural resources and China sends their flip-flops and consumer goods."

Rubens Barbosa, Brazilian ambassador to the U.S. from 1999 to 2004 and now a business consultant, said Brazilian officials have complained that cheap Chinese exports have destroyed domestic industries such as shoe and textile manufacturers. Brazil this year imposed antidumping tariffs on imports of some Chinese fibers within months of China becoming Brazil's biggest trading partner.

"With trade, we have a problem because the aggressiveness of Chinese companies is very strong," Barbosa said. "But the government still has a lot of interest in these relations with China. China is now the principal partner of Brazil."

China's commercial ties with Brazil continue to grow. About 14 percent of the South American country's oil production went to China in 2009, and that portion is expected to expand because Brazilian oil company Petrobras signed a 10-year deal with Chinese-owned Unipec Asia to export 150,000 barrels of oil a day in the first year. The deal calls for exports of 200,000 barrels a day for the next nine years. At the same time, Petrobras secured a $10 billion, 10-year loan from the China Development Bank.

Petrobras says the deals were separate and that the oil is not being used to pay back the loan. Still, the agreements ensure Chinese access to Brazil's booming oil production, which promises to skyrocket after vast offshore reserves discovered in 2008 come online.

China has also been active across Argentina. The China Development Bank has offered a $2.6 billion, 10-year loan to revive a freight train system connecting Buenos Aires to much of Argentina's central heartland. In the country's Rio Negro province, the Metallurgical Corporation of China has invested $80 million to reactivate an iron ore mine, and China's Beidahuang Group company has promised $1.4 billion in irrigation infrastructure in exchange for a 20-year contract to grow corn, wheat, soy and dairy on otherwise dry land for Chinese consumers.

And in remote southern Tierra del Fuego, near the tip of South America, Chinese companies are investing $1 billion, not only to produce fertilizer, but to build an energy plant, for which Argentina has promised China natural gas for 25 years.

"Two weeks ago, the Chinese commerce minister visited us with 60 business executives, and they showed great interest in investing in other sectors," Fernandez Taboada said. "There is a fundamental expansion of China in Latin America. In all the countries, from Mexico on south."

According to Schell, China is just getting started.

"This is a real tipping point moment, of which the Chinese investments in commodities and extractive resources of Latin America is just the opening bell," he said. "Who's got the money? And it's not the United States any longer. It's China. This is the next great pool of (foreign investment) that the world is going to reckon with in myriad ways."

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Jun 2011 20:01

on the npr, they are running episodes/ series on the chips. today's boxer shiver is kazakhstan. chips, have invested $15b for oil, and spending huge money for roads, schools and medical facilities to make kazakhs depend on the chips. The kazakhs have the feel of pressure now giving huge millions of acres of land for chip who is buying them for agriculture.